[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Sunnysunny]

Eh. Well I do want a new button layout, I don't want it to be like every other fighting games. Maaaybe a function that turns off smashes on a particular button would be cool. A for tilts and C-stick for smashes?

The specials can use "tilts" and "smashes" too. So we get a little variation for are specials.

I wouldn't mind one more button being used though (X and Y both jump and both triggers block afterall so there is room)

I like the idea of a trip attack. :D I wanna see more "mix up" stuff in brawl. Shielding is so strong in this game....D-x could be a trip attack, Side X can be a strong shield hitting attack. Neutral X could b some sorta focus attack like in SF that can be charged, dashed out of, and absorbs a certain amount of damage. Fully charged would break shields, with a crumple effect if it hits, mid charge would inflict alot of shieldstun with a crumple effect of hit , and light would give minimum shield stun, as well as slightly knock the opponent way if hit.

derp. No clue what special thing up-x would do. ._. Maybe an air-grab or an attack that hits spot-dodge or rolling only?

EDIT: Wait. What am I saying. j.Z can just be the airgrab. >w>

 

[ryuu seika]

ryuu, you lost more respect from me.

What have I done wrong this time?

 

[majora_787]

I'm just saying: I never said she couldn't. I just said that she probably won't. And don't say "there's no way she could ever be a clone", because that's not true in the least. The way I see it, she has a chance of being based off two characters on the current roster. Maybe both. Who knows.

And even if she does bring in a new style, which is a sizeable if, it won't be in the way all the Krystal fans want.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

One question: Why can't Krystal become a newcomer while Fox, Falco, AND Wolf all remain playable? I realize there are some problems with this...

1) Some people argue that Starfox "doesn't need" a fourth slot because it is "undeserving" of one. But I don't know if I really agree with this. What about the MOTHER/EarthBound series? Is it even "deserving" of ONE character? And why do series like Fire Emblem, Kirby, and Donkey Kong have more slots than Metroid? I realize it is difficult to find a viable candidate within the Metroid series who doesn't have something going against them, but my point still stands that these "less-deserving" series have more slots than "more deserving" series. This could potentially put Starfox on the same level as the Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon series, however. But I don't think this will be a problem, because I find it highly likely that we'll see a fifth slot for at least two of these series, and even then Zelda and Pokemon have their extra transformation characters.

2) Another argument is because she isn't "recent" enough. Honestly, I don't think how recent a character is really matters, but too a limit of course. Here is how I feel about a character's "recentness": As long asa character is from a series that is still well-known and at least somewhat popular, and there are no new viable characters that they are competing with, they can be seriously considered for Smash. In other words, it doesn't matter if a character hasn't appeared for several years. If the come from a series that is still well-known and popular, and the series hasn't presented any new candidates, then the fact that the character is older shouldn't go against it.

Krystal fits this criteria perfectly. Obviously, Starfox isn't dead, and no new Starfox characters that can seriously be considered have been introduced since her last game. I guess I just want to know why she can't appear alongside the three Starfox veterans without having one of them be cut. That's all.



However, if she were to replace either Wolf or Falco, I'd put my bets first on Wolf, then on Falco. I really don't see this happening though, especially since Starfox 64, the game that Wolf debuted in and had many Falco appearances, is being remade for the 3DS.

 

[Kantrip]

I would be fine with 4 starfox characters as long as Donkey Kong gets the same treatment (Dixie and K. Rool as seperate newcomers). Metroid also deserves Ridley and another

Spoiler

Dark Samus?

and Kirby and Pokemon are certainly done (though Pokemon needs some swap-outs). Mario should not get Jr, Toad, AND Paper Mario, but I could handle 2/3 for the most famous Nintendo franchise.

 

[majora_787]

One question: Why can't Krystal become a newcomer while Fox, Falco, AND Wolf all remain playable? I realize there are some problems with this...

1) Some people argue that Starfox "doesn't need" a fourth slot because it is "undeserving" of one. But I don't know if I really agree with this. What about the MOTHER/EarthBound series? Is it even "deserving" of ONE character? And why do series like Fire Emblem, Kirby, and Donkey Kong have more slots than Metroid? I realize it is difficult to find a viable candidate within the Metroid series who doesn't have something going against them, but my point still stands that these "less-deserving" series have more slots than "more deserving" series. This could potentially put Starfox on the same level as the Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon series, however. But I don't think this will be a problem, because I find it highly likely that we'll see a fifth slot for at least two of these series, and even then Zelda and Pokemon have their extra transformation characters.

2) Another argument is because she isn't "recent" enough. Honestly, I don't think how recent a character is really matters, but too a limit of course. Here is how I feel about a character's "recentness": As long asa character is from a series that is still well-known and at least somewhat popular, and there are no new viable characters that they are competing with, they can be seriously considered for Smash. In other words, it doesn't matter if a character hasn't appeared for several years. If the come from a series that is still well-known and popular, and the series hasn't presented any new candidates, then the fact that the character is older shouldn't go against it.

Krystal fits this criteria perfectly. Obviously, Starfox isn't dead, and no new Starfox characters that can seriously be considered have been introduced since her last game. I guess I just want to know why she can't appear alongside the three Starfox veterans without having one of them be cut. That's all.



However, if she were to replace either Wolf or Falco, I'd put my bets first on Wolf, then on Falco. I really don't see this happening though, especially since Starfox 64, the game that Wolf debuted in and had many Falco appearances, is being remade for the 3DS.

I was just irritated that some people here would cut Wolf and Falco just to have Krystal, who is just as likely to be a clone of twice as many characters. I honestly don't care if she gets added or not, as long as she doesn't replace any of the three who are already there.

And my complaint toward her isn't that she isn't recent enough, it's that everyone wants her debut version, when what they're going to get is the version that's been in the two latest starfox games.

The only character who I just flat-out don't want in the game is Tingle. Anyone else, I don't care, as long as they don't shove anyone "debateably" more important off of the roster. Or worse yet, two characters.

EDIT: DK could use another, Metroid certainly deserves at least Ridley... There isn't a lot FOR Kirby, but I hope they don't make swap-outs anymore. I dislike swap-outs a lot. r_r Even if bringing back Mewtwo and adding Zoroark would mean... 6 pokemon roster slots. And yeah, all three for Mario would be a little excessive.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Starphoenix

Interesting roster you made there. Though I felt a little bit underwhelmed by it... maybe it is because it is basically Brawl minus Lucario plus ten newcomers and Mewtwo. At least you added Toad, Isaac, Little Mac, and Mega Man. Slime was a pleasant surprise addition as well (which is not unexpected coming from you, that is! )

Oh! And take out Snake to put in Starfy. My reasoning for this is that fans wanted Sonic and Mega Man more than they wanted Snake anyway.

Anyway, haven't you noticed how much the character select screen increases by about 12 in each game?

SSB: 12 slots (12 x 1)
6 columns x 2 rows

SSBM: 25 slots ((12 x 2) + 1)
9 columns x 3 rows

SSBB: 35 slots ((12 x 3) - 1)
9 columns x 4 rows

I was thinking that in SSB4, this pattern might continue with slight changes in the formula. Either it is ~48 slots (12 x 4) or ~44 slots (11 x 4).

@ Kuma

I am also waiting for SmashChu to come in to rip your "new controls" ideas to shreds. Truth be told, I prefer jumping with the X or Y button than pushing the control stick up. To me, it seems unnatural to jump by pressing Up when you are playing a platformer game. Smash is a fighting/platformer hybrid, given how most stages in the games are very "platformer-esque" (except for Final Destination and maybe Battlefield, too).

@ character select screen themes

I have some ideas for arranging the characters on the character select screen. This is how I would have done if it went horizontal like Starphoenix's roster. I am going with the ~48 slots theory here.

Row 1: Marioverse
Row 2: Famicom Disk System
Row 3: Nintendo Generations
Row 4: Nintendo RPG's
Row 5: the Odd Row or the Three of Threes

Row 1 would consist of characters from Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario series. Newcomers are Toad, King K. Rool, and Dixie Kong paired with Diddy Kong.

Row 2 would consist of characters from Zelda (and to an extent, Tingle), Kid Icarus, and Metroid series plus Takamaru from The Mysterious Murasame Castle. These four series originated on the Famicom Disk System, not the Famicom. Toon Link loses his slot to Tingle but is selectable as an alternate character in Link's slot. Add Palutena, Medusa, and Ridley for the NES password sister games.

Row 3 would consist of one character from a franchise that originated from one of Nintendo's systems. Toys gets R.O.B. because he is a toy. Arcade gets Little Mac because Punch-Out!! originated on the arcades. Game & Watch obviously gets Mr. Game & Watch while the NES gets Ice Climbers. SNES gets Captain Falcon because F-Zero originated on the SNES. N64 gets Isa because Sin & Punishment originated on the N64. GameCube gets Olimar because Pikmin debuted on the GCN. GB and GBA each get Muddy Mole and Starfy, respectively, because Mole Mania and Starfy series debuted on them. The Wii gets Mii, of course. The DS gets nothing because there are no noteworthy new franchises originating on the DS.

Row 4 would consist of characters from RPG franchises like Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Mother, and Golden Sun. Keep the Mother boys, give five slots to Pokemon, replace Ike with Caeda and add Matthew (Isaac's son). Swap out Jigglypuff and Lucario for Mewtwo, Meowth, and a 5th gen Pokemon (Zoroark or Victini, though I wouldn't mind replacing 1st gen starters with 2nd or 5th gen starters).

Row 5 would consist of characters from Kirby, Star Fox, and third party series. It is odd because there seems to be no theme linking them all and it has a Random slot. Though it could also be called the "Three of Threes" Row due to each group having three characters. Either declone Falco or replace him with Krystal because I don't think Star Fox needs nor deserves four characters. Sonic, Mega Man, and Slime join the brawl as their respective company mascots but no more because I think four third-party characters might be asking too much.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I would be fine with 4 starfox characters as long as Donkey Kong gets the same treatment (Dixie and K. Rool as seperate newcomers). Metroid also deserves Ridley and another

Spoiler

Dark Samus?

and Kirby and Pokemon are certainly done (though Pokemon needs some swap-outs). Mario should not get Jr, Toad, AND Paper Mario, but I could handle 2/3 for the most famous Nintendo franchise.

I was just irritated that some people here would cut Wolf and Falco just to have Krystal, who is just as likely to be a clone of twice as many characters. I honestly don't care if she gets added or not, as long as she doesn't replace any of the three who are already there.

And my complaint toward her isn't that she isn't recent enough, it's that everyone wants her debut version, when what they're going to get is the version that's been in the two latest starfox games.

The only character who I just flat-out don't want in the game is Tingle. Anyone else, I don't care, as long as they don't shove anyone "debateably" more important off of the roster. Or worse yet, two characters.

EDIT: DK could use another, Metroid certainly deserves at least Ridley... There isn't a lot FOR Kirby, but I hope they don't make swap-outs anymore. I dislike swap-outs a lot. r_r Even if bringing back Mewtwo and adding Zoroark would mean... 6 pokemon roster slots. And yeah, all three for Mario would be a little excessive.

I agree with pretty much everything said in these two posts above. Whether people like it or not, and while Krystal does have potential for a unique moveset, she also has potential to be a clone. Hopefully Sakurai or other developers will see this potential, because I doubt that even they would like the idea of four Starfox characters that are pretty similar, whether clones or "Luigified" clones. Also, the design will most definitely be based off of her latest appearances, no doubt about that. That certainly doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to use her staff, though...

On the other series... I have to agree with you guys. I really don't find it unlikely that we'd see both Dixie Kong and King K. Rool, as well as two of the three top Mario characters right now: Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario (personal bets on Toad and Bowser Jr. if that happened). Kirby most likely will not get another character, and if it did, it would probably be Prince Fluff, at this point. Metroid SHOULD get Ridley, but the chances of that happening are highly debatable... and I hate debating Ridley's chances.

But I don't think the idea of a fifth slot for Pokemon should be counted out quite yet. Sure it has the most characters in the game, but I think a fifth slot is definitely possible. Also, like it or not, but Lucario does have a good chance of being swapped-out for a 5th/6th-generation Pokemon (most likely Zoroark or Victini at this point) if the slot max for the series remains at four. But I've always wondered this: if we do see a fifth slot, will Lucario stay, or will Mewtwo return? It'd be weird to see a bunch of first gens and the latest gen on the roster and then a random 4th-gen. What do you guys think about that?

 

[Arcadenik]

I would be fine with 4 starfox characters as long as Donkey Kong gets the same treatment (Dixie and K. Rool as seperate newcomers). Metroid also deserves Ridley and another

Spoiler

Dark Samus?

and Kirby and Pokemon are certainly done (though Pokemon needs some swap-outs). Mario should not get Jr, Toad, AND Paper Mario, but I could handle 2/3 for the most famous Nintendo franchise.

I couldn't agree more about Pokemon needing some swap-outs. Pikachu is the mascot, of course he won't be removed. But the rest? They are interchangeable, especially the starters, legendaries, and promotional Pokemon. Look at it this way, the Pokemon roster could be arranged based on this:

- Pikachu (mascot)
- a Pokemon Trainer (a trio of starters from one generation)
- a Legendary Pokemon (ex. Mewtwo, Deoxys, etc.)
- a promotional Pokemon (ex. Lucario, Zoroark, etc.)
- a random yet popular non-starter, non-Legendary, non-promotional Pokemon (ex. Jigglypuff, Meowth, etc.)

Why do we have to stick with Jigglypuff, the 1st gen starters, and Mewtwo for the rest of the future Smash games? The cast of characters in this series is ever growing, bringing us over 600 Pokemon. I think this is one series that definitely needs some swap-outs.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Honestly, I think Jigglypuff has overstayed her welcome. The only reason she was popular back in the day was because of the TV show; in the games, she's not important at all. At least Pikachu was important in both the games and the show, besides being the entire series's mascot and everything.

Also, I think having each franchise with an equal amount of fighters is nice, but unrealistic. 3-5 for a top series (Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, Donkey Kong, etc) is fine, but then when you get into the secondary ones like F-Zero or Pikmin, things get hairy. Even the top franchises really don't have enough hugely main characters to just be throwing out representatives into the field like its nothing.

Mario and Pokemon are really the only ones that can get away with having more than 4 because of the sheer size of their franchises. Others like Zelda and Metroid don't really have that same necessity.

My problem with the current setup of the Smash series is that the distribution of representatives is completely haywire. Metroid only has 1 (since Samus and ZSS are still the same person, no matter how you look at it; unfortunately Sakurai felt differently), while Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda all have four. Even Star Fox and Donkey Kong have more than Metroid has. Even Fire Emblem has more than Metroid has. Seriously, Sakurai must hate Metroid.

The franchise that definitely needs a boost is Metroid. Ridley and Dark Samus would easily fit the bill and both would be great additions.

 

[Kantrip]

Also, a change in final smash and the converting to ZSS as a seperate character with a roster slot would fix it as well? She is more of a seperate character than Sheik/Zelda and Pokemon Trainer, at least she gets a Down B.

 

[Big-Cat]

Eh. Well I do want a new button layout, I don't want it to be like every other fighting games. Maaaybe a function that turns off smashes on a particular button would be cool. A for tilts and C-stick for smashes?

The specials can use "tilts" and "smashes" too. So we get a little variation for are specials.

I wouldn't mind one more button being used though (X and Y both jump and both triggers block afterall so there is room)

I like the idea of a trip attack. :D I wanna see more "mix up" stuff in brawl. Shielding is so strong in this game....D-x could be a trip attack, Side X can be a strong shield hitting attack. Neutral X could b some sorta focus attack like in SF that can be charged, dashed out of, and absorbs a certain amount of damage. Fully charged would break shields, with a crumple effect if it hits, mid charge would inflict alot of shieldstun with a crumple effect of hit , and light would give minimum shield stun, as well as slightly knock the opponent way if hit.

derp. No clue what special thing up-x would do. ._. Maybe an air-grab or an attack that hits spot-dodge or rolling only?

EDIT: Wait. What am I saying. j.Z can just be the airgrab. >w>

I had thought about mapping the Smash attacks to a single button, but I wanted to go for something going with the BlazBlue format.

And yes, Smash is kind of lacking in the mixup department when it comes to attacks outside of DI. It'd make shield positioning much more important and apparant. Make the offense far more interesting with pressure. I also like you ideas for what 5Y could do.

I do understand your concern about Smash becoming like other fighters. As I've said before, it's not a bad thing if it makes the game more existing and stable. Of course, knockback would still be an important part, but this idea is to help give the game a strong ground game without making it where you mash A over and over for some kind of combo (I think no one truly wants that). To be honest, I also find it boring to see a Marth do 3 FAirs and then a DAir to K.O. an opponent as a common combo.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Also, a change in final smash and the converting to ZSS as a seperate character with a roster slot would fix it as well? She is more of a seperate character than Sheik/Zelda and Pokemon Trainer, at least she gets a Down B.

I wouldn't mind ZSS being put on the same plane as Sheik is for Zelda, but that still doesn't mean Metroid needs more rep.

I mean, in this entire time Smash Bros has existed, Ridley was, and always has been, an hugely important and unavoidable boss that has the most significance in the series behind Samus. Then there's Dark Samus, the most prevalent enemy of the Metroid Prime series. She's a huge factor as well, and such a unique character beyond just looking like an evil Samus.

I'd even call for SA-X to appear if it appeared in more than Fusion. It could function as a good boss, though.

 

[majora_787]

I don't like D-Samus though, because she just screams "CLONE MEH!!!". Ridley's a better choice on popularity, relevance, AND he's less cloneable.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I don't like D-Samus though, because she just screams "CLONE MEH!!!". Ridley's a better choice on popularity, relevance, AND he's less cloneable.

Well Ridley really isn't clone-able at all. The only character remotely close to him in Smash is Charizard and the differences are just too obvious.

Dark Samus, though actually being a clone, really isn't much of a clone at all. It's not like the situation with the Star Fox characters: because all of them really don't have much of a combat history, and because of how similar they all are in many respects, its hard not to just clone them.

But then there's Dark Samus, who actually is really different in fight style than Samus, though there are some similarities. Dark Samus has a lot of combat history and has one thing Samus (as much as she is portrayed in Smash, that is) never had: Phazon. Samus and Dark Samus are actually more different than the SF characters are, than Mario and Luigi are, etc.

 

[majora_787]

Well Ridley really isn't clone-able at all. The only character remotely close to him in Smash is Charizard and the differences are just too obvious.

Dark Samus, though actually being a clone, really isn't much of a clone at all. It's not like the situation with the Star Fox characters: because all of them really don't have much of a combat history, and because of how similar they all are in many respects, its hard not to just clone them.

But then there's Dark Samus, who actually is really different in fight style than Samus, though there are some similarities. Dark Samus has a lot of combat history and has one thing Samus (as much as she is portrayed in Smash, that is) never had: Phazon. Samus and Dark Samus are actually more different than the SF characters are, than Mario and Luigi are, etc.

Believe you me. If we got a Dark Samus with hand-to-hand and phazon-based attacks, Phazon Shrapnel, Phazon Meteor, and Phazon Boost as special attacks, and Phazon Gemini as a final smash? I wouldn't mind Dark Samus. I would still want Ridley, though, because I personally like him more. xD

 

[vVv Rapture]

Believe you me. If we got a Dark Samus with hand-to-hand and phazon-based attacks, Phazon Shrapnel, Phazon Meteor, and Phazon Boost as special attacks, and Phazon Gemini as a final smash? I wouldn't mind Dark Samus. I would still want Ridley, though, because I personally like him more. xD

That's what I'm saying, she'd be an amazing character! And it'd be amazing to have Samus get her PED Suit and Light Suit as alternate colors so we can recreate MP2 and MP3.

I like Ridley more, too. If I had it my way, I'd add both. If I could only have one, I'd add Ridley over DS.

 

[Shorts]

Honestly, I think Jigglypuff has overstayed her welcome. The only reason she was popular back in the day was because of the TV show; in the games, she's not important at all.

Hate to burst your bubble but, the Anime and Movies have a pretty major influence on the game. . . PKMN trainer and Pikachu are the only Pokemon that got added soley from the game. Lucario had a major movie, Jiggs was a reacurring character in the Anime like Meowth and Pikachu. Pichu had the "Pichu Bros". Mewtwo, you know about him. I mean, we dodn't predict Victini or Zoroark for nothing. Of course, the games have their influences as well, this goes without saying usually. But, the anime was and is still a big factor.

Jiggly is still immensly popular, believe it or not. She stays. End of story. End. Of. Story.

Anyone else really like Cloaked Zelda from TP? I secretly fantasize about that form showing up in a taunt/entrance. Though Twilight Princess days are pretty much behind us. So it's like wishing for Majora at this point.

 

[WoodyWiggins]

To be honest, I also find it boring to see a Marth do 3 FAirs and then a DAir to K.O. an opponent as a common combo.

This is one of the reasons I like Smash. Those fairs aren't a gauranteed combo, so there's a certain kind of strategy involved that is different from other fighting games. I think it's odd to watch characters exchange crazy long combo strings. Tekken 6 is frustrating cause a majority of the time, it is impossible to break combos. Lol, or maybe I just suck.
But still, combos in smash seem to be different from combos in other fighting games.

Considering how things went with the hacking scene here, I think SSB4 would benefit from including a Costume Editor mode. Kinda like Guilty Gear Isuka, just a simple pallette editor. You could then choose which existing costume to replace with the edited costume, save it to your controller and use them at tournaments, events, etc . . .

!

What if SSB4 came with unlockable costumes? Well not really unlockable, you would have to buy them with coins. But, this feature could be used to add new characters, without making them Newcomers, but still recognizing that the costume is a different character. They basically did this with Peach, Falcon, Lucas and Diddy. Like for example, with Peach, when you switch to Peach's "Daisy" costume, Peach's name should also switch to Daisy. Same for Falcon/Blood Falcon, Lucas/Claus, and Diddy/Dixie. This feature could be used to add a ton of characters like; Luigi/Mr. L, Kirby/Gooey/Waddle Dee, Bowser/Dry Bones, Sonic/Metal Sonic/Scourge, Lucario/Mewtwo, Link(TP)/Link(OoT)/Link(SS), Pokemon Trainer (Male)/PT(Female)/PT(Rival A), Pikachu/Pichu, etc. . .

 

[vVv Rapture]

Hate to burst your bubble but, the Anime and Movies have a pretty major influence on the game. . . PKMN trainer and Pikachu are the only Pokemon that got added soley from the game. Lucario had a major movie, Jiggs was a reacurring character in the Anime like Meowth and Pikachu. Pichu had the "Pichu Bros". Mewtwo, you know about him. I mean, we dodn't predict Victini or Zoroark for nothing.

Jiggly is still immensly popular, believe it or not. She stays. End of story. End. Of. Story.

Well, Pikachu was obviously added because of his mascot status, the games, and the TV show. It's not "solely from the game" in his case. Yeah, Lucario and Pichu had that sort of "on-screen" factor, but Jigglypuff doesn't have that anymore. Jigglypuff was popular back in the day, she really isn't now, regardless of whether or not she was on TV or whatever.

The fact remains is that it's Gen 5 now, not Gen 1. Pikachu is an exception, but Jigglypuff really isn't. I don't care if she stays, and if she does I'd hope it's because she was in the Original 12 for the most part, but I don't see her as a priority anymore.

Ridley > Jigglypuff errday.

 

[Shorts]

Well, Pikachu was obviously added because of his mascot status, the games, and the TV show. It's not "solely from the game" in his case. Yeah, Lucario and Pichu had that sort of "on-screen" factor, but Jigglypuff doesn't have that anymore. Jigglypuff was popular back in the day, she really isn't now, regardless of whether or not she was on TV or whatever.

The fact remains is that it's Gen 5 now, not Gen 1. Pikachu is an exception, but Jigglypuff really isn't. I don't care if she stays, and if she does I'd hope it's because she was in the Original 12 for the most part, but I don't see her as a priority anymore.

Ridley > Jigglypuff errday.

Well, she is majorly popular. That's just a fact. One of the most recognizable faces of Pokemon, and top 50 of Nintendo, no doubt. If we are going to add characters based on the idea of new AND popular, well that is just dumb. Generation five has only served up two Pokemon that are even worthy for consideration. Generation One is the most popular, most familiar, and R/B were some of the most sold games of allll time.
Usually, I don't like to argue a character "because they are popular" but with Pokemon that's all that really counts. If we went on important Pokemon we would have Pika, starters and legendaries. Pichu, Lucario, and Jiggs would never make it.

You ask someone who Jigglypuff is, and who Ridley is,

Jigglypuff errday.

Again, popularity is kind of key for the Pokemon series. So the whole "Latest and Greatest" are really all that matter. Gen 2, 3, and 4 kind of become muddled at this point. (I personally want to see at least three Gens repped in SSB4, but fat chance)

 

[vVv Rapture]

Well, she is majorly popular. That's just a fact. One of the most recognizable faces of Pokemon, and top 50 of Nintendo, no doubt. If we are going to add characters based on the idea of new AND popular, well that is just dumb. Generation five has only served up two Pokemon that are even worthy for consideration. Generation One is the most popular, most familiar, and R/B were some of the most sold games of allll time.
Usually, I don't like to argue a character "because they are popular" but with Pokemon that's all that really counts. If we went on important Pokemon we would have Pika, starters and legendaries. Pichu, Lucario, and Jiggs would never make it.

You ask someone who Jigglypuff is, and who Ridley is,

Jigglypuff errday.

Again, popularity is kind of key for the Pokemon series. So the whole "Latest and Greatest" are really all that matter. Gen 2, 3, and 4 kind of become muddled at this point. (I personally want to see at least three Gens repped in SSB4, but fat chance)

Eh, I guess that's true. I really don't know how popular she is, but I was under the impression that she wasn't in the same light as before considering, as far as I know, she's never mentioned ever like in the old days. Like I said, I don't really mind. She doesn't bother me too much, but Ridley still has to get in. xD

 

[Big-Cat]

This is one of the reasons I like Smash. Those fairs aren't a gauranteed combo, so there's a certain kind of strategy involved that is different from other fighting games. I think it's odd to watch characters exchange crazy long combo strings. Tekken 6 is frustrating cause a majority of the time, it is impossible to break combos. Lol, or maybe I just suck.
But still, combos in smash seem to be different from combos in other fighting games.

Well, there is strategy in other areas. Sure, you can argue that there is strategy in correctly predicting DI off of each move, but when you think about it, that's too much guess work involved.

Overall, the main strategy for fighting games in general is footsies/baiting > punishment > okizeme. The thing with Smash is that there's not enough proper punishment and too much okizeme. DI is pretty much okizeme when you get right down to it, and you can easily make it where certain attacks reset the situation with proper DI guessing, but not every attack should have that.

If you're in a long combo, it's because your strategy wasn't the right one at the time so you gotta change it up. To be honest though, I hate stupidly long and damaging combos like Wolverine's in MvC3. Look at games like Street Fighter and BlazBlue where while you
may get stuck in a combo, it's typically not the end of the world since you can get out right as it's over if you guess right.

 

[augustoflores]

@ryuu... just the fact you kinda like that roster... nothing big really...

@palette swap costume editing... really? do you think they want us running around with skin colored Zero suit Samus (or No Suit Samus as the texture hack was named)?

on the slots. someone mentioned zss as her own slot on the roster... no... but, i would want that the announcer be able to announce her name as you select her... i believe i have said this before but got no one talking about it.

Zero Suit Samus, PT's Pokemon, Sheik, etc. these characters i would like to be able to select at the selection screen without holding a button. Remember in Mortal Kombat Trilogy, you can select alternative jax, kano, kung lao, and raiden as they appeared in mk1 and mk2... the selection merely flips the slot with some cool fire and stuff and ... yeah.

Felix, Matthew, Dr. Mario, Daisy, maybe Roy if he doesn't get his slot back, Blood Falcon, Dark Link, etc.... these guys would just be palette swaps but i would like for the announcer to announce their name.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

@Shortiecanbrawl & Rapture

Why not Jigglypuff AND Ridley errday? Personally, Ifind it very unlikely that Jigglypuff will be cut at this point. She/he/it/potato may not have any screen time in the anime anymore, or any important role in the game for that matter, but those facts pale in comparison to other facts that greatly support her case for staying:

-Like Shortie said, she is from the first generation which is the most well-known generation and easily the most popular, which has a hand in her own popularity.
-She has a unique moveset and a unique aerial game that is probably favored by many players who would greatly resent her removal.
-She was one of the original characters of Smash, and she is still around in the series. If she was ever meant to be cut, believe me, it would have happened in Brawl.

When it comes to Pokemon, I think the roster will always be split into two categories: First-generation Pokemon, and then Latest and Greatest Pokemon. The roster will be mostly First-generation Pokemon, and then a single latest and greatest Pokemon to represent the current generation. This makes sense to me, because, as it has been said before, the First generation is the most well-known and probably still the most popular generation, so it will most likely be the most represented. It happened in Melee and Brawl:

(First-generation) ~ Pikachu
(First-generation) ~ Jigglypuff
(First-generation) ~ Mewtwo
(Latest and Greatest) ~ Pichu

(First-generation) ~ Pikachu
(First-generation) ~ Jigglypuff
(First-generation) ~ Pokemon Trainer
(Latest and Greatest) ~ Lucario

I believe it will happen again in SSB4. Either one of three things could happen, though. If the number of slots stay the same, I expect Lucario to be swapped out with either Zoroark or Victini (the two most likely candidates at this point). Swap-outs are something you have to expect to see with the Pokemon series.

Now, what if we see an increase in the number of slots to five (which I think is likely)? Would Lucario stay along with Zoroark or Victini? While this is definitely a possibility, I've always been open to another possibility: Lucario being cut to revive Mewtwo and introduce Zoroark or Victini. It really isn't so weird if you think about it. Honestly, KEEPING Lucario rather than reviving Mewtwo seems a bit strange to me. Think about it... Three first-generation Pokemon, a latest and greatest Pokemon, and then a random Fourth generation Pokemon. Just doesn't look right in my eyes. With my idea of the roster being split between first-gens and latest and greatest, I'd expect to see this instead:

(First-generation) ~ Pikachu
(First-generation) ~ Jigglypuff
(First-generation) ~ Pokemon Trainer
(First-generation) ~ Mewtwo
(Latest & Greatest) ~ Zoroark OR Victini

What do you guys think? Do you see it as a possibility that Lucario would get cut to revive Mewtwo and introduce fifth generation Pokemon?

 

[Big-Cat]

I honestly think Lucario would stay. There's no explicit rule saying a latest gen Pokemon must be in. Remember, by taking out Lucario, you're removing a play style. I think Mewtwo would come back in considering the backlash for his removal, his unique playstyle, and the fact that he was supposed to be in Brawl.

 

[FOUREYES]

@Enzo

I honestly think the pokemon series is popular and diverse enough to warrant at least six, if not more.

Here are my picks for the pokemon:

Pikachu: Duh
Jiggz: She's been in SSB since the beginning, no reason to remove her now
Mewtwo: Way cooler than Lucario IMO, even if Lucario is a stronger character. If they brought him back I would hope to see him made stronger, maybe giving his moves more reach and KO potential while being balanced by his large size and floatiness/light weight.
Lucario: He was in Brawl and I think he should return in SSB4. He's fine as is, though I personally would tune down his aura mechanic so that he could actually KO and rack up damage at lower percents.
PT: In brawl, should return for SSB4, only not ****ty for those of us who aren't Reflex
Meowth: An obvious choice, as he's probably the second most important pokemon in the anime. I'd give him a fast moveset with lots of damage racking and combo capabilities, like MK without the ridiculous recovery/gimping/KO potential
Pichu: I personally would love to see Pichu come back with a new moveset that wasn't a clone/didn't deal damage to himself. I could see him being a fast combo character or a high powered glass cannon with lots of KO potential
Gen 5 PT/Legendary of the week: I haven't really paid attention to pokemon since the 90s, so I don't know who'd go here, but they might as well bring in one of the new guys.

I think all of these are viable choices for SSB4 personally, especially due to the popularity of the pokemon franchise.

 

[Arcadenik]

Let's say that SSB4 is already out and we got Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, and a 5th gen Pokemon. As per human nature, SSB5 will be discussed as soon SSB4 comes out... what do you think the fans will want in SSB5? Keep everyone from SSB5, except the 5th gen Pokemon, to maintain the "5 slot limit" or hope for 6 slots where the 6th slot goes to the 6th or 7th gen Pokemon?

I really don't like how we have to maintain the status quo regarding Pokemon. It is like we have to have Jigglypuff, 1st gen starters, and Mewtwo in all future Smash games while we casually swap out the latest Pokemon like nothing. I think it pretty much screws the other Pokemon from older gens out of Smash for good, which wouldn't be fair to them.

Wouldn't it be a bit more fair to the rest of the Pokemon if we didn't use this system...

(First-generation) ~ Pikachu
(First-generation) ~ Jigglypuff
(First-generation) ~ Pokemon Trainer
(First-generation) ~ Mewtwo
(Latest & Greatest) ~ Zoroark OR Victini

And used this system instead?

(Series Mascot) ~ Pikachu
(Latest Pokemon Trainer with Trio of Starters) ~ 1st gen OR 2nd gen OR 5th gen
(Latest Human-shape Legendary) ~ Mewtwo OR Deoxys OR Genesect
(Latest Promotional Pokemon) ~ Lucario OR Zoroark OR Victini
(Random but Popular Generic Pokemon) ~ Jigglypuff OR Meowth OR Plusle & Minun

Note how I said "latest" - this is in reference to whether a generation gets remade or we get a new generation.

Oh, and players will always "greatly resent" ANY character removal. It doesn't matter if it is Jigglypuff or Mewtwo or even a clone like Roy or Young Link. I will bet that if Tingle or the Duck Hunt Dog ever became playable in SSB4 and they got removed in SSB5 due to people complaining about them, people will greatly resent their removal anyway. I think it is simple psychology.

 

[majora_787]

True enough. I get irritated with most character removal theories. And to be honest, I would have rather seen the four clones luigified instead of removed, but that's just me. x_x

But Pokemon is a big series. I wouldn't see a huge issue if, say, we got one new one per game.

1 - Pikachu
1 - Jigglypuff

2 - Mewtwo

3 - Lucario

Of course, we also got Pichu and Pokemon Trainer. But I don't think anyone would necessarily care about the size of Pokemon's roster weight IF we did it like this:

5 slots for Pikachu, Jiggs, Mewtwo, Lucario, and a 5th generation rep... my money is on Zoroark.

Pichu gets slid into Pikachu and stays a clone, but is an unlockable costume or something.

Maybe?

 

[UberMario]

I honestly think Lucario would stay. There's no explicit rule saying a latest gen Pokemon must be in. Remember, by taking out Lucario, you're removing a play style. I think Mewtwo would come back in considering the backlash for his removal, his unique playstyle, and the fact that he was supposed to be in Brawl.

^This, and it's pretty obvious that Mewtwo was fully intended to be in Brawl, but was scrapped due to time constraints.


And I'd only want Pichu to be a clone if he was an "alternate costume", there are some moves that he could use which could make him unique from Pikachu. Hopefully, the 3rd Gen will get a rep this time, too.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I honestly think Lucario would stay. There's no explicit rule saying a latest gen Pokemon must be in. Remember, by taking out Lucario, you're removing a play style. I think Mewtwo would come back in considering the backlash for his removal, his unique playstyle, and the fact that he was supposed to be in Brawl.

While there is obviously no explicit rule, you have to admit that it is also pretty likely that a Pokemon from the latest generation will appear, even if it means swapping out a character. Pokemon is one of those series (like Fire Emblem) that is constantly changing and introducing new characters. People will get attatched to many of these new characters due to promotional deals and how the character is marketed. Take Pokemon for example... if a new character plays a major role in a movie, it's going to get noticed by many fans and this will probably have a big hand in it's increasing popularity, as in Pichu's case, Lucario's case, and most likely Zoroark's case. The promotional Victini event will make people view Victini as a prize, and therefore people will begin to fall in love with Victini and it's popularity and familiarity will increase. It's just things like this that make me feel like the latest and greatest of the Pokemon series will always get a spot in Smash.

Understood about Lucario's playstyle. Of course, like someone previously mentioned, removing ANY character will cause a major backlash among fans of the series, whether it is a character like Mewtwo, or characters like Dr. Mario and Pichu. Even so, it's a fact that there is a possibility that characters may have to be swapped out for the latest and greatest no matter how much people dislike it. This time around, however, I don't think we will see nearly as much cuts. In fact, I say we'll get only one at most, and that being Lucario, if it happens. Also, don't forget that we wouldn't exactly be losing a playstyle if we lost Lucario and revived Mewtwo. We'd see the return of a playstyle as well. It's not like cutting a character with an original moveset to introduce a clone.

Pokemon and Mario are the only series that I see getting six slots. If we do get six slots in Pokemon, then I'd put my bets on Lucario staying, Mewtwo being revived, AND Zoroark or Victini being introduced.

 

[Shorts]

Well, regaurding the Pokemon status quo, the way I see it like this. As much as I would like a fifth slot to open up and be just for "Random Popular Pokemon" I just don't see Jigglypuff leaving, OR a need for sixth slot to be created. I would rather not have the Humanoid Pokemon have their own slot. It's just a stupid idea that Meowth or Plusle/Minun or even Minccino can't get in because of it. Here are two scenarios. We have the "Safe" PKMN roster, or the "Risky" Pokemon Roster.

Safe Roster

(Mascot) Pikachu
(Reacurring veteran) Jigglypuff
(Humanoid Pokemon) Mewtwo wins out Lucario
(Pokemon Trainer) First Gen wins out the others.
(Latest Pokemon) Zoroark beats Victini ect.

With this we have a total of TWO generations. The first generation dominates the roster because it so familar to fans. Making it a safe approach. This is the real meaning of Latest and greatest. We keep this silly Humanoid thing around for fear of not getting our ZoroLucaMew2 fix.

Risky Roster
(Mascot) Pikachu
(Veteran/Popular character) Jigglypuff
(Pokemon Trainer) 2nd Gen beats out first gen bringing a "New Feel" to the PT system.
(Popular Character) Deoxys has a chance to beat out Mewtwo, Lucario Meowth ect. Bringing the Third Generation into the game.
(Latest Character) Victini Beats out Genosect and Zoroark because we have Deoxys in place as a humanoid character. This brings the Fifth Generation into play.

This way, we possibly have up to four generations in a single smash bros. Since I took out the "Humanoid" catagory there was a chance for non-humanoids to get in, while still keeping Jiggs. Humanoids still have a chance of getting in, but aren't a staple. Which is how it should be.

 

[Sephy95]

Now that news of a new Nintendo platform is out, obviously theres gonna be a new smash bros along with it. My hopes are that they improve online play and the mechanics of the game itself.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Shortiecanbrawl

Wouldn't it even be possible to have a happy medium between Safe and Risky?

(Mascot) ~ Pikachu
(Expected Veteran / Popular Non-Legendary) ~ Jigglypuff
(Fan Demand / Popular Humanoid Legendary) ~ Mewtwo
(Pokemon Trainer / Popular Latest Pokemon) ~ 2nd or 5th gen starters
(Unexpected Newcomer / Popular Non-Legendary) ~ Meowth

Notice how I removed Lucario and the 1st gen starters? I guess I am simply making it a tradition to keep Pikachu and Jigglypuff while adding two newcomers in one game and then replace these newcomers with two new newcomers in the next game. I like the idea of having four 1st gen Pokemon AND three Pokemon who are not from the 1st gen. I wonder... do people really want Zoroark or Victini in Smash or do they just expect them to be in whether they like it or not? Why not the 5th gen starters?

 

[Shorts]

@ Shortiecanbrawl

Wouldn't it even be possible to have a happy medium between Safe and Risky?

(Mascot) ~ Pikachu
(Expected Veteran / Popular Non-Legendary) ~ Jigglypuff
(Fan Demand / Popular Humanoid Legendary) ~ Mewtwo
(Pokemon Trainer / Popular Latest Pokemon) ~ 2nd or 5th gen starters
(Unexpected Newcomer / Popular Non-Legendary) ~ Meowth

Notice how I removed Lucario and the 1st gen starters? I guess I am simply making it a tradition to keep Pikachu and Jigglypuff while adding two newcomers in one game and then replace these newcomers with two new newcomers in the next game. I like the idea of having four 1st gen Pokemon AND three Pokemon who are not from the 1st gen. I wonder... do people really want Zoroark or Victini in Smash or do they just expect them to be in whether they like it or not? Why not the 5th gen starters?

I would be happy if the fifth one was just Popular Newcomer, thus giving way for non-humanoid legendary Victini. I like Victini a lot, I was much more on board with Minccino when I first saw it but I don't think the Pokemon lived up to my initial expected hype. I think the fifth gen starters are the worst bunch so far. I like them, but they don't compare to their competition and would ultimately be beaten out by 2nd gen (Or 3rd considering a new Pokemon title is in the works for 3ds and I am willing to bet if it isn't a crappy Ranger game or decent MD game, it's a remake). I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter that I want 2nd/3rd Gen Pokemon to be repped when I know that if push comes to shove Zoroark will poke his stupid little head into the roster and probably give us a roster looking closer to the safe one. No Moewth, no 2nd gen, and CERTAINLY no 3rd gen will be repped if the game takes the safe route.

You like having more first gen, and then a single (or PT) representing another generation, which is fine and actually more likely to happen. But I think, to an extent, we should try to add as many different Generations in as possible, so lon as the character is still relevant or popular. Also, I'm not one to complain about Pokemon being replaced. Because if you want to play as Mewtwo/Pichu, start up Melee and have a gay ol' time.

Overall, I hope to see smash as a whole take a riskier route and lean towards competitive gameplay, and a small but very unique roster (this is why a vote for the hardly "Luigi-fied" Falco to just become alternate character/costume for fox, and letting Wolf be redone and Krystal be unique.) If smash can manage those two tasks, I will be truely excited. Brawl was safe, and as much as I love the easy going attitude, I don't want a second Brawl.

 

[majora_787]

Gotta see what happens with this. Again, with any luck, we'll get a "it's entering development" at e3. I mean, it's a pretty minor announcement, but that still sends shockwaves. xD

Then in a year we can look forward to the stuff they're putting in. =P And I'll try not spoiling anything but 12 characters on the roster. xD

 

[vVv Rapture]

Why are people putting Meowth on there rosters? I really see absolutely no reason to add Meowth.

 

[Sonic Poke]

My opinion is:

in the series, that will never leave pkmns are Pikachu and Jigglypuff, Pkmn Trainer possibly would not get out too, especially Charizard. Lucario has a chance to get out, but that would not happen. perssonagens as new, I would Zoroark Meowth and a second pkmn trainer. I am not confident that Team Rocket will come into ssb4, but if it happens, be happy! by being the first anime character of the game, however implausible.
My list:
Veterans:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff

Legendary or special:
Lucario
Mewtwo (return)
Zoroark

Trainers:
pkmn trainer
pkmn trainer 2
team rocket

You may find it much, but if we consider the Mario series, we have: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and Dr. Mario, many want to enter Waluigi and Daisy, as well as DK, Wario and Yoshi first started out in mario series. then, for comparison, would ssb4 10 perssonagens mario series.

 

[Arcadenik]

Really? I don't see anyone putting Meowth in their rosters. As far as I know, I am the only one in Smashboards who still hope that Meowth will finally become playable in Smash. I should be a Blue Lantern by now. Though I have seen some rosters outside of Smashboards where they add Meowth. I would be fine if Meowth is playable in only one Smash game and is removed in all future Smash games. Why? Because at least Meowth got to be playable once and I can always go back to that Smash game to play Meowth. That's why I go back to Melee just to play as Mewtwo. I don't know about you guys, but it is probably why I am open to the idea of swapping older characters for newer characters. It is good for keeping the roster from growing exponentially big and from becoming stagnant.

 

[Shorts]

The Meowth thing is more of someone's dream character. I will always hope for Geno. Always.









. . . always