[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Kewkky]

Well, the appropriate place for speculating SSB4 stuff would be, well, the SSB4 speculation thread. Just saying, think about that next time. If some pissed off mod would come looking around for someone they could piss off, they would've chosen this post.

Anyway, yeah, I dunno. For the sake of continuing the tradition of 3 starters, I would hope May comes around.

 

[majora_787]

Lemme just say, if there ever is a "Last Smash Game"... It should be a compilation of the series' content, with maybe some new features if they have time afterwards. Sort of like Metroid Prime Trilogy. Only, you know. It'll end eventually after SSB4.

That'd be a lot of accumulative content, especially in the stages department. But, you know. :3 Whatever happens happens, that'd be the best "Last Smash" ever, and would be justice to the fans.

 

[Big-Cat]

I haven't paid attention at all to this Pokemon debate, but I'll chime in.

We do not need to worry about series representation. This is a fighting game, not a Congress as I've said several times in the past. What matters is how the characters play, not who's playable. That be said, there should be no need to shoehorn other gen starters. Nor, do we need to have customizable PT rosters. By doing that, you're including 10+ possible characters and then you have to worry about balancing. You're better off just picking 10 diverse characters over ten Pokemon.

Finally, if we really need gen representation, let's have all the different trainers available as alternate costumes. Maybe being able to pick your Pokemon's gender would be nice. At the very least, make the gen 1 girl available.

 

[majora_787]

I dunno about you, but I think Metroid fans, F-Zero fans, Star Fox fans, Earthbound fans, Yoshi fans, and DK Fans all worry about it. ._. Admittedly, "representatives" is a really weird word to use, but I think we all know what people mean.

 

[Big-Cat]

I take back what I said somewhat. "Representation" does and doesn't matter depending on the subject. Obviously, we don't need 10 Pokemon character slots in a 45 roster game. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to throw in an extra character in if they bring something new to the game (Kumatora being a mixup glass cannon, Krystal being midrange and rushdown, etc.) when it doesn't seem like they "deserve" more characters for certain series.

 

[BirthNote]

Because searching for my idea would be tedious as it is a few pages back, I'm going to include it in my posts.

Pokemon Trainer Idea​

Spoiler

What if the Pokemon Trainer didn't have 3 pokemon from one generation? Instead, what if he/she had a lineup that combined generations 2 through 4? Pokemon representation can be brought up to speed if this happens, as opposed to a 3rd Generation in SSB5 and so on. There's many pokemon to choose from in one generation alone, therefore deciding who makes it is anyone's guess, so here are the NUMEROUS options:



2nd Generation
Chikorita

Bayleef

Meganium

Cyndaquil

Quilava

Typhlosion

Totodile

Croconaw

Feraligatr

3rd Generation
Treecko

Grovyle

Sceptile

Torchic

Combusken

Blaziken

Mudkip

Marshtomp

Swampert

4th Generation
Turtwig

Grotle

Torterra

Chimchar

Monferno

Infernape

Piplup

Prinplup

Empoleon

The pokemon are listed from phases 1 to 3. I've color-coded them to make their type (grass, fire, water) obvious, and I provided images because not everyone (myself included) knows what these pokemon look like.

So, my idea is for the Trainer to have 3 pokemon, but with one belonging to a specific generation, type and phase. The list above features the choices, and only one pokemon can be chosen from each generation, as well as type, and evolution phase. The chosen 3 can't share similarities in phase, type or generation.

While I do have an idea for who I'd pick, I'm not into pokemon like I was as a kid, so I feel that I can't choose wisely. Also, some of these candidates can't work for Smash because of some...notable concerns. Some are armless, others are FREAKING MASSIVE (guess who), and one looks like a sinister DeDeDe. Anyway, my personal choice would be to follow up on Brawl's PT range: fire would have its first phase, water would be in its second, and grass would feature its third phase. The phase layout that I've mentioned is how I would do it--if you want to come up with your own layout or follow Brawl's, go ahead.

So what do you all think? Is it best for the PT to have a strictly 2nd generation lineup, or have a roster that spans these 3 generations? With this, they could possibly get away with featuring all of Pokemon generations; Pika and Jiggs feature the first whereas the Trainer showcases 3 and the 5th generation can get represented by the pokemon that some have been rooting for a few pages back. Who would you choose for the Pokemon Trainer's fighters?

I haven't paid attention at all to this Pokemon debate, but I'll chime in.

We do not need to worry about series representation. This is a fighting game, not a Congress as I've said several times in the past. What matters is how the characters play, not who's playable. That be said, there should be no need to shoehorn other gen starters. Nor, do we need to have customizable PT rosters. By doing that, you're including 10+ possible characters and then you have to worry about balancing. You're better off just picking 10 diverse characters over ten Pokemon.

Finally, if we really need gen representation, let's have all the different trainers available as alternate costumes. Maybe being able to pick your Pokemon's gender would be nice. At the very least, make the gen 1 girl available.

The idea was never to have a customized PT roster. The Squirtle, Bulbasaur and Charmander lines have 9 candidates in total, so I doubt everyone would've chosen the same trio. Therefore, 27 hypotheticals wouldn't yeild unanimous results, and I asked everyone to list who they preferred to be the three that made it in. I was also encouraging people to list other possible combinations.

Can you clarify the ten Pokemon thing? Because, what I'm proposing is 6 fighters for 4 slots.

 

[majora_787]

True enough. In all seriousness, any series with less than 3 characters at this point "deserves" another character-- With the exclusions of Game&Watch, Gyromite, and Ice Climber for obvious reasons. None of them really have more characters to add...

 

[Shorts]

The Pokemon trainers should never mix generations anyhow. It makes no sense. I say, pick a generation, figure out the most popular Final evo, mid evo, and fist evo and be done with it. I just hope to see some mix ups in the whole Water Grass Fire line up. I'll take a bit from what Kuma and Nik have said. I want to see a unique character to fit a diverse roster [Kuma], and all those who throw hissy fits when characters leave need to realize that you can play as Roy, Mewtwo, PT Red, Lucario ect in the Smash they were previously starring[Nik]. We aren't wiping them from existance, just moving on to new ground.

I would love to see Vaati, Krystal, or some other less then "THE MOZT IMPURTANT CHARATERZ" get in, but I wouldn't throw a fit when I see them go. Caeda could bring extremely unique style. Krystal has a Gatlin Gun, Grenade, and a Staff. She wouldn't be a clone. Heck, even Daisy could bring something new to the roster. One timers isn't a bad thing.

 

[WoodyWiggins]

I think that any franchise that has considerably popular characters, should get in to SSB4, regardless of how many are already in Smash. In other words, I don't think there should be a limit on how many characters from one franchise can get into SSB4.
Game directors should start, with making trophy characters from Brawl into playable chraracters. These characters are popular enough, right? Many people wanted Waluigi to be an actual character in Brawl. Many people now want Little Mac, Saki, and Stafy as playable characters in SSB4.
Certainly, characters like Stafy, do not need extra "representatives". However, there are different characters in the Stafy series that should be acknowledged. These characters would benefit from becoming an alternate costume.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if SSB4 had a massive downsize in the character roster. 14-18 characters, not including alternate costumes, seems awesome enough, because, adding more characters will probably make balancing characters difficult. And by focusing less on characters, gameplay and features (such as wi-fi), may become high priority.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

We do not need to worry about series representation. This is a fighting game, not a Congress as I've said several times in the past. What matters is how the characters play, not who's playable.

I really don't agree with this at all. Maybe that is the way you think, but when a new Smash gets announced, everyone (myself included) just wants to find out who is playable and if their favorite Nintendo characters will finally make the cut. You don't see people saying things like "I wonder what new play-styles will be introduced!!" as much as you see "I wonder what new characters will be in the game!" or "RIDLEY, GENO, KNUCKLES, TAILS, SHADOW, SILVER and TOM NOOK for SSB4!!1!1!!one!!"

While Smash is a fighting game, it has too many differences from a traditional fighting game for fans of the series to actually worry about play-styles as much as they care about seeing their favorite Nintendo characters, locations, and items in the game. The whole magic of Smash is the fact that it is a massive cross-over game that brings Nintendo's most familiar and most popular characters, locations, items, and other elements together into one, big, Nintendo Festival. It is, essentially, "The Ultimate Nintendo Game." Trust me, this element of Smash has much more of an impact on fans of the series than the actual fighting and specific play-styles of each character. Still, this goes without saying that the game is still a fighting game, and the development team should still make the best effort possible to balance all of the characters and the entire roster in general.



Also, I use terms like "representation" and "slots" and "candidates" and things like that because people here actually understand what you're talking about when you use those terms. Obviously, Smash Bros. isn't some sort of Congress, but these terms appropriately describe most of the things we talk about here.

 

[majora_787]

The Pokemon trainers should never mix generations anyhow. It makes no sense. I say, pick a generation, figure out the most popular Final evo, mid evo, and fist evo and be done with it. I just hope to see some mix ups in the whole Water Grass Fire line up. I'll take a bit from what Kuma and Nik have said. I want to see a unique character to fit a diverse roster [Kuma], and all those who throw hissy fits when characters leave need to realize that you can play as Roy, Mewtwo, PT Red, Lucario ect in the Smash they were previously starring[Nik]. We aren't wiping them from existance, just moving on to new ground.

I would love to see Vaati, Krystal, or some other less then "THE MOZT IMPURTANT CHARATERZ" get in, but I wouldn't throw a fit when I see them go. Caeda could bring extremely unique style. Krystal has a Gatlin Gun, Grenade, and a Staff. She wouldn't be a clone. Heck, even Daisy could bring something new to the roster. One timers isn't a bad thing.

I'll be honest, I would rather see Nephenee than Caeda. She's from the newer Fire Emblem games, and may not be a relevant character, but she is one of the best. xD

I won't even go back to the Krystal staff thing, I'll just say people should know better... And she could be a clone. It isn't guaranteed that she would be, but I've said this before: She's just as able to be a clone as any starfox character, and could be one of twice as many characters.

I'm honestly curious. What could Daisy bring to the game? Are we talking Mario Sports-based movesets or something?

And the thing about it is, some character combinations come along that you would like to see that can't happen because of "entering new ground". And also, you don't get to see one-time characters in the light of new things added to new games.

Roy vs. Ike? Mewtwo vs. Lucario? Sorry, you'd have to play Melee for Roy and Mewtwo, Brawl for Ike and Lucario.

Want to see Dr. Mario's final smash? Sorry, but he's a one-timer.

I'd be totally willing to forgive the creation "one timers" if they finished the series with an accumlulative roster with the content of the previous games... And if not a final game, then an anniversary title. In 2 years, smash bros. will turn 15, for example.

EDIT: Don't take it the wrong way when I say forgive. I just believe that in a crossover game like Smash... EXACTLY like smash, actually, is shafting fans when they remove characters forever like that. And in all seriousness, they are.

 

[Shorts]

In regaurds to the whole Representation thing, I can't help but disagree. I wouldn't know about F-Zero, Fire Emblem ect. without smash. It needs proper representation, because it kind of is a sort of crash course of Nintendo. At this point smash has the "Major" characters. It needs:

1. Smaller Fanchises
2. Less important/replacable characters from pre existing Franchises
3. Either more or replacement 3rd parties.

 

[majora_787]

In regaurds to the whole Representation thing, I can't help but disagree. I wouldn't know about F-Zero, Fire Emblem ect. without smash. It needs proper representation, because it kind of is a sort of crash course of Nintendo. At this point smash has the "Major" characters. It needs:

1. Smaller Fanchises
2. Less important/replacable characters from pre existing Franchises
3. Either more or replacement 3rd parties.

That's true, but they're still missing a couple of their strongest support pillars right now. It'd be a bad idea to go straight to their smaller, weaker pillars before making sure they've gotten all the big ones in place. And yes, I am using pillars as a metaphor for Ridley and K.Rool. =P

 

[augustoflores]

(Kumatora being a mixup glass cannon, Krystal being midrange and rushdown, etc.)

Kumatora vs Krystal

your quote reminded me of this drawing of mine. if Kumatora gets in, then she better not be the size of her trophy.... friggin practically the size of lucas. Kumatora is like 17 years old right? thats why i drew her in a 17 year old size... think of it as Pit's evolution in graphics. it wasn't until sakurai's brawl that pit got upgraded. remember his trophy in melee?

i doubt sakurai was working on or planning on KI: Uprising before Brawl came out. what if Smash 4 causes Retro Studios or Sora Ltd. to remake Mother 3 in this new console? i know it's a long shot but Itoi refuses to work any more with the mother series.

(btw, K-tora is using PK fire. Krystal dodged by jumping and is ready to strike.)

 

[BirthNote]

The Pokemon trainers should never mix generations anyhow. It makes no sense. I say, pick a generation, figure out the most popular Final evo, mid evo, and fist evo and be done with it.

What's your opinion of an SSB created Trainer that did mix gens? And, are you saying that trainers like Ash make no sense because they have a multi-gen lineup? Is he the only oddity in both the anime and games? Nobody else has done this?

 

[majora_787]

... I am not saying it again. r_r

Anyway, I think the point is that the Pokemon trainers are meant to represent a generation, not exactly popular pokemon. I mean, to my knowledge, Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't as popular as Blastoise and Bulbasaur, but that's... kinda nitpicking. But Charizard was the right choice. xD

 

[Sunnysunny]

Shoulda been wartortle, bulbasaur and charizard. But hey thats just my opinion~!

 

[majora_787]

I really think that it would be simply amazing if the game were already in development and was either a launch title for Cafe, or would be out in a year or two. But all I really want is for them to say, "It's happening" at e3. xD

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Honestly, the only alternative idea that I'm taking slightly seriously when it comes to the Pokemon Trainer is the second generation being represented by the three starter Pokemon. Sorry Birthnote, but I just don't think we'll end up seeing anything like what you suggested. Sure it would be the "fair" thing to do, but obviously being "fair" to the Pokemon series doesn't matter that much, as made obvious by the Pokemon roster in Brawl and Melee.

I still believe that the Pokemon Trainer won't change one bit, besides the good possibility that we'll see the female Trainer as an alternate costume. But whatever, this Pokemon discussion has gone on long enough and is getting quite repetitive. How about a new discussion?

Is it possible that F-Zero will get another character (most likely right now is Samurai Goroh, then Black Shadow)? The series has been dead since 2004, so that is one major strike against it. But while I believe that there is still a good amount of "major" characters to introduce, I also believe that there isn't enough to bring in the same amount of newcomers this time around, and lesser-known series (like F-Zero) might get more characters to make up for that.

So F-Zero.... what does everyone think?

 

[majora_787]

Honestly, the only alternative idea that I'm taking slightly seriously when it comes to the Pokemon Trainer is the second generation being represented by the three starter Pokemon. Sorry Birthnote, but I just don't think we'll end up seeing anything like what you suggested. Sure it would be the "fair" thing to do, but obviously being "fair" to the Pokemon series doesn't matter that much, as made obvious by the Pokemon roster in Brawl and Melee.

I still believe that the Pokemon Trainer won't change one bit, besides the good possibility that we'll see the female Trainer as an alternate costume. But whatever, this Pokemon discussion has gone on long enough and is getting quite repetitive. How about a new discussion?

Is it possible that F-Zero will get another character (most likely right now is Samurai Goroh, then Black Shadow)? The series has been dead since 2004, so that is one major strike against it. But while I believe that there is still a good amount of "major" characters to introduce, I also believe that there isn't enough to bring in the same amount of newcomers this time around, and lesser-known series (like F-Zero) might get more characters to make up for that.

So F-Zero.... what does everyone think?

Here's what I think: I think that F-Zero is a 7-year dead series that shouldn't get a second character before more important series (Metroid, Yoshi, Zelda, DK, Kid Icarus, Pokemon) get their roster tweaks.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Here's what I think: I think that F-Zero is a 7-year dead series that shouldn't get a second character before more important series (Metroid, Yoshi, Zelda, DK, Kid Icarus, Pokemon) get their roster tweaks.

Agreed with most of this. Obviously, things need to be done to the more important series before a new F-Zero character is introduced, but considering the fact that there aren't as much "major" characters to introduce this time around, we'll see some random, low priority additions like Samurai Goroh being added to the roster.

Here are the higher priority additions in my opinion:
-Introduce one or two of the last remaining major Mario characters (like Toad and Bowser Jr.) to the playable roster.
-Fix Ganondorf's moveset.
-Fix Toon Link's moveset.
-Introduce Ridley to the playable Roster.
-Represent the latest generation of Pokemon in the playable roster.

But Yoshi? I really don't think Yoshi is going to get anymore representation than it has now in any way, considering that it is basically considered hand-in-hand with the Mario series until another Yoshi's Island game comes out that actually brings about a viable candidate, which is unlikely.

After all this happens, and then some more to other series like the Donkey Kong series, I feel like we have a chance of seeing Samurai Goroh.

 

[majora_787]

Yoshi's Island, like Donkey Kong and WarioWare, are subsets of Mario that are all still functional. I don't know, maybe Kamek or something. Maybe baby Mario, if Nintendo thinks they can get away with that.

But yes, Yoshi.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here's what I think: I think that F-Zero is a 7-year dead series that shouldn't get a second character before more important series (Metroid, Yoshi, Zelda, DK, Kid Icarus, Pokemon) get their roster tweaks.

I agree that F-Zero being dead for more than six years, makes it so that F-Zero does not need a second playable character, however, I do disagree on some of the other series that you mentioned in parenthesis about them being more "worthy" for additional playable characters.

Yoshi has been pretty dead too (over four years), and the series is more seen as a spinoff of Maria, so it does not need a second-character, and there also exists no one from the "Yoshi" series that is popularly requested.

With Zelda, a lot of people says it needs another character just for the sake of getting another character and put it at the same amount of slots as Mario and Pokemon (each might get five slots in Smash 4). The fact of the matter is that there are no more Zelda characters that are popularly requested for Smash Bros. nor any more characters that actually deserve to be in. At most I would say a completely unique moveset for Ganondorf is needed.

DK right now needs another character. However, if the only characters that end up staying for the DK resurrection are DK, Diddy,, and Cranky, then perhaps it will not need a third character too. I think the possibility of a Donkey Kong Country Returns 2 is extremely important as to whether DK gets a third playable character in Smash 4. Well we will find out in about a half-month if Retro is indeed working on such a title.

As for Kid Icarus, the series has only had three titles to date, but that did not stop Star Fox from getting a second-character in Melee and Mother a second-character in Brawl. I don't think Kid Icarus "deserves" a second playable character, but I do think that Sakurai having worked on the resurrection of the series might be inclined to give it a second playable character if he does indeed return as the director and roster-selector for Smash 4.

Pokemon is practically guaranteed to have a newcomer for Smash 4. The only problems though are determining "who" (as in who will be the newcomer) and whether the series will get a fifth slot. Pokemon has had four slots for Melee and Brawl, will it go up to five in Smash 4? I think it is largely determined by how many characters Sakurai thinks his team can get in Smash 4.

Metroid may deserve another character, and Ridley may be the highest requested Nintendo character for Smash 4, however, it is largely determined by Sakurai's own opinion regarding Ridley. If Sakurai continued to think "lawl too big", then Ridley will continue to be excluded, regardless of the level of his popularity and the amount of requests for playability he has.

 

[majora_787]

I think that Kid Icarus may be given a chance just because of its revival at the hands of Brawl.

And I'd agree with the Sakurai comment if it weren't for two things:

1. I remember Sakurai admitting that Ridley would be possible as a playable character. Key word, possible. He didn't say anything even remotely along the lines of him being added to any game ever, he just said that if they tried, they could make him a playable character.

2. I don't think it matters what Sakurai thinks, because I don't believe he'll be apart of SSB4.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think that Kid Icarus may be given a chance just because of its revival at the hands of Brawl.

And I'd agree with the Sakurai comment if it weren't for two things:

1. I remember Sakurai admitting that Ridley would be possible as a playable character. Key word, possible. He didn't say anything even remotely along the lines of him being added to any game ever, he just said that if they tried, they could make him a playable character.

2. I don't think it matters what Sakurai thinks, because I don't believe he'll be apart of SSB4.

For reference, here is what Sakurai exactly said regarding Ridley being a playable character in Smash Bros.

Nintendo Power:
There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?

Sakurai:
I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]

Source: Nintendo Power, May 2008, V228, p. 62

 

[majora_787]

For reference, here is what Sakurai exactly said regarding Ridley being a playable character in Smash Bros.

Nintendo Power:
There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?

Sakurai:
I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]

Source: Nintendo Power, May 2008, V228, p. 62

Okay, that's where I read it. r_r SO in all seriousness, that makes both of us right on what he SAID; he admitted that it might be possible if they 'put their best efforts into' (Read: actually tried...) putting him into the game... But clearly, he doesn't even want to try.

But I still think it won't matter because he probably won't do anything for SSB4. And if it's up to someone else, the fans will probably get their wish, because if there's any honest justice, Ridley will make it into the game simply to please the fans, which will make Nintendo moar moneys.

 

[Shorts]

What's your opinion of an SSB created Trainer that did mix gens? And, are you saying that trainers like Ash make no sense because they have a multi-gen lineup? Is he the only oddity in both the anime and games? Nobody else has done this?

It is not possible in the games to normally obtain these Pokemon. Ash does NOT matter when it comes to PT. PT is based soley off the games. Ash no longer owns Charizard or Squirts. He has never owned an Ivysaur either. Pokemon trainer is Trainer Red. Hopefully he becomes Ethan, May, Dawn, or. . . Hilbert. . . . ugh. Hate that name.

 

[Big-Cat]

I really don't agree with this at all. Maybe that is the way you think, but when a new Smash gets announced, everyone (myself included) just wants to find out who is playable and if their favorite Nintendo characters will finally make the cut. You don't see people saying things like "I wonder what new play-styles will be introduced!!" as much as you see "I wonder what new characters will be in the game!" or "RIDLEY, GENO, KNUCKLES, TAILS, SHADOW, SILVER and TOM NOOK for SSB4!!1!1!!one!!"

You do have a point. Even with MvC3, you had the same thing with Ken and Megaman. The thing is, I think people automatically think that any character they want is gonna stick out and contribute to diversity. And besides, don't you remember the pre-Brawl days when people said X has moveset potential, Y can't happen because it'd be cloned, etc.

Also:

In terms of his criteria for characters to be included in the game, Sakurai said that to merit inclusion, characters had to stand out, and do something that only that character can do. Additionally, new additions to the roster had to improve the balance of series representation -- you don't want half of the roster from the Mario series, or Zelda. The developer put an additional emphasis on individuality. "Clarifying the concept early on of what a character can do was very important," he said.

http://www.destructoid.com/gdc-08-masahiro-sakurai-talks-brawl-development-71767.phtml

@Augusto
Did you draw that picture when I said Kumatora could work like C. Viper?

 

[augustoflores]

yea! i did.

 

[ChronoBound]

Its now three weeks until Nintendo's E3 conference.

This is the first E3 in which there are a large number of Smash fans expecting a Smash 4 unveil or announcement. As I have mentioned before, I don't expect Smash 4 to be unveiled until 2012 or 2013. However, the unveil for the Wii 2 was earlier than I had anticipated (I originally did not expect an unveil for a successor to the Wii until 2012). The main thing that makes me think a Smash 4 unveil is unlikely is that Sakurai is currently busy with Kid Icarus Uprising.

Everything about character prospects and merits has already been talked about in-depth here, so hopefully some new game announcements at E3 will help give us some more things to talk about in regards to roster speculation.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I'll be honest, I would rather see Nephenee than Caeda. She's from the newer Fire Emblem games, and may not be a relevant character, but she is one of the best. xD

I won't even go back to the Krystal staff thing, I'll just say people should know better... And she could be a clone. It isn't guaranteed that she would be, but I've said this before: She's just as able to be a clone as any starfox character, and could be one of twice as many characters.

I'm honestly curious. What could Daisy bring to the game? Are we talking Mario Sports-based movesets or something?

And the thing about it is, some character combinations come along that you would like to see that can't happen because of "entering new ground". And also, you don't get to see one-time characters in the light of new things added to new games.

Roy vs. Ike? Mewtwo vs. Lucario? Sorry, you'd have to play Melee for Roy and Mewtwo, Brawl for Ike and Lucario.

Want to see Dr. Mario's final smash? Sorry, but he's a one-timer.

I agree with Nephenee and Caedo, and I'm also curious about Daisy and Krystal, but Krystal would be unlikely to become a clone, which is amenable to Link because Krystal is not a pilot ships on Starfox, but a resident of Fox a distant planet. Check out this vide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmg5zzDUuPo. As for Dr. Mario his final smash could be a giant injection, the terrorist of the vaccine, lol

 

[Shorts]

The main thing that makes me think a Smash 4 unveil is unlikely is that Sakurai is currently busy with Kid Icarus Uprising.

What makes you think he is going to be involved? I'm pretty sure he didn't even want to do Brawl but took it on out of pride I guess. That, or just selfishness and not wanting anyone to "ruin" his series. ha. He can do that all on his own.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

Nintendo isnt just gonna gather up pokemon from the older gens and just throw them in the game. While fan request are wanted nintendo is also looking at the newer more popular items.

Example: Pikachu was in the first smash because he was popular around that time, same goes with mewtwo in the release of melee, he was good for his time. Lucario was in brawl because again in that time he was new and popular. The pokemon trainer was just a touch of the classics that Nintendo decided t throw into the game. Pikachu stays because well...he's pikachu so SSB4 will definitely have pika by default.

Im sure that the 5th gen will be the game to take the spot lite for the new pokemon to enter.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

Its now three weeks until Nintendo's E3 conference.

This is the first E3 in which there are a large number of Smash fans expecting a Smash 4 unveil or announcement. As I have mentioned before, I don't expect Smash 4 to be unveiled until 2012 or 2013. However, the unveil for the Wii 2 was earlier than I had anticipated (I originally did not expect an unveil for a successor to the Wii until 2012). The main thing that makes me think a Smash 4 unveil is unlikely is that Sakurai is currently busy with Kid Icarus Uprising.

Everything about character prospects and merits has already been talked about in-depth here, so hopefully some new game announcements at E3 will help give us some more things to talk about in regards to roster speculation.

Well the wii 2 or "project cafe" was announced to release in 2012. I think this is the perfect time announce it. Lets be honest the wii is falling in comparison to the xbox and ps3. After 5 years tech upgrades are overdue and well get to see a worthwhile system from nintendo.

 

[Big-Cat]

Nintendo isnt just gonna gather up pokemon from the older gens and just throw them in the game. While fan request are wanted nintendo is also looking at the newer more popular items.

Example: Pikachu was in the first smash because he was popular around that time, same goes with mewtwo in the release of melee, he was good for his time. Lucario was in brawl because again in that time he was new and popular. The pokemon trainer was just a touch of the classics that Nintendo decided t throw into the game. Pikachu stays because well...he's pikachu so SSB4 will definitely have pika by default.

Im sure that the 5th gen will be the game to take the spot lite for the new pokemon to enter.

You're basing this entirely off of conjecture. NOTHING explicitly supports the "more recent, should be in" argument.

 

[WoodyWiggins]

You're basing this entirely off of conjecture. NOTHING explicitly supports the "more recent, should be in" argument.

Money. Cash cows. I think that is what rad2kj meant.
Pikachu is a cash cow. Anything with pikachu will sell. Mewtwo was a cash cow thanks to Pokemon the movie 2000. Lucario is a cash cow.
What other pokemon are cash cows?
Dunno.
But I suspect that it isn't any retro pokemon. Except for Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

 

[Big-Cat]

Meowth?

And don't forget the starters. There were probably a whole lot of people to see those three playable, especially Charizard.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

I agree with Nephenee and Caedo, and I'm also curious about Daisy and Krystal, but Krystal would be unlikely to become a clone, which is amenable to Link because Krystal is not a pilot ships on Starfox, but a resident of Fox a distant planet. Check out this vide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmg5zzDUuPo. As for Dr. Mario his final smash could be a giant injection, the terrorist of the vaccine, lol

Dr. Mario should only be a costume of regular Mario. The character is too much of a clone and I believe they should start doing costumes instead of just different color swaps.

 

[ryuu seika]

I believe they should start doing costumes instead of just different color swaps.

That'd be a nice touch.

 

[UberMario]

Mewtwo was a cash cow thanks to Pokemon the movie 2000.

Pokemon: The Movie 2000 featured Lugia, Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres. Pokemon: The First Movie was the one with Mewtwo.