[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[majora_787]

so, itd just be kirby....

that, and you'd clearly tell the other guy is using Zoroark at char select :/

I dunno if you know this, but Kirby only copies one move.

Zoroark, assuming he uses the 'start as ___' deal, would probably turn into Player 2 and be able to use their entire moveset before dying or taking enough damage.

Issac... Maybe?

Waluigi... I'm doubting it. I really am. But you never know.

King K. Rool... With any justice.

New Pokemon (take your pick) ... That is obscenely vague.

And Ridley, because you accidentally forgot him.

And need I seriously repeat the first rule of a Smash Bros. newcomer? r_r They have to ORIGINATE in a video game.

Actually, on the subject of Sands of Destruction... They have a pretty low chance of getting a rep in, especially since... Well, Sega already has Sonic, and even if they got another, they would probably go with something that's a series and less of a one-title-wonder RPG.

But I would be very entertained seeing a playable character from Sands of Destruction in smash. xD Or an assist trophy. Or something.

 

[RWB]

Nice. Then I only really see Dixie as an actual threat to his inclusion in SSB4.

 

[RWB]

Issac... Maybe?

Likely, if we get a Golden Sun Character, since he even has a decent amount of screentime in Dark Dawn.

Matthew may steal the spot though, being the most recent main protagonist.

Waluigi... I'm doubting it. I really am. But you never know.

He will be in eventually, assuming the series countinues. Maybe not SSB4. SSB5? Maybe not, though I doubt he wouldn't make it. SSB6, yeah he's getting in.

 

[majora_787]

Nice. Then I only really see Dixie as an actual threat to his inclusion in SSB4.

Whose, K. Rool's? Well, the way I see it... They've both been in about as many games, but I give K. Rool a head start simply for being a year older, since there really isn't a difference in the number of appearences...

But yeah, she's probably the only threat. xD

EDIT: Double posting is bad. The EDIT button is a masochist, remember that.

Anyway, Waluigi EVENTUALLY? Then, yeah. EVENTUALLY he'll probably show up.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I just want to point out that Rare does not own any DK characters, so King K. Rool can obviously be added, as can any other DK character. Rare lost those rights when they moved to Microsoft (but they took with them Banjo-Kazooie because that's their IP).

Also, I really, really hope Waluigi never becomes a playable character ever...and if Ridley is not chosen, but he is, I would seriously light Nintendo of Japan, America and Europe all on fire.

 

[majora_787]

I just want to point out that Rare does not own any DK characters, so King K. Rool can obviously be added, as can any other DK character. Rare lost those rights when they moved to Microsoft (but they took with them Banjo-Kazooie because that's their IP).

Also, I really, really hope Waluigi never becomes a playable character ever...and if Ridley is not chosen, but he is, I would seriously light Nintendo of Japan, America and Europe all on fire.

Too true. If Mario is going to drown the roster before we even get Ridley, then... sheesh. And one of those characters is actually heavily popular, especially compared to the other.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I barely consider Waluigi a character at all, let alone a valuable one.

 

[majora_787]

Technically, he IS a character, whether you like it or not. xD And wasn't he the main antagonist of that Mario DDR thing or something? I don't remember, but I'm trying to redeem him a tiny bit here.

ANYWAY. On the subject of characters who probably won't make it.

I'd love to see Neku, Beat, or Minamimoto from Square Enix's TWEWY, because that'd just be awesome. :3

I'd also love to see... well, any major character from Sega's Sands of Destruction. With the exception of Rajiv. Wolf clone to the max. That, and Rhi'a would probably be excluded for using revolvers, and there's no way that'd get by censors. xD

 

[RWB]

EDIT: Double posting is bad. The EDIT button is a masochist, remember that.
.

Sorry. My internet is being stupid and saying there is an extra page of answers.

I kind of figured it out after posting that.

 

[majora_787]

Not an issue. =P

But anyway... Sands of Destruction actually has some interesting character potential, aside from TWEWY, which makes me sad that it'd probably never end up in smash unless Sega asked or something. xD

Knives? Whip? Whatever the hell you call that horrific sharp object Morte uses? ... xD Boxing teddy bear? (lol)

It has interesting stuff. But no, we just had to get a running discolored hedgehog. xD

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Good God, what is with all the Goku suggestions? Really, there is a 0% chance of that happening. Also, is it just me, or has activity in the place really sky-rocketed within the past couple of days (especially the past few hours?!)?

Anyway, about Waluigi... the only thing he has going for him is popularity. That's it. It isn't even enough to warrant his inclusion in Smash at this point. There are still a few Mario characters who are much more important to the series, have around the same amount of popularity, and have a greater moveset potential then Waluigi. There is no way we'll see Waluigi in the game before characters like Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario. EVENTUALLY, he could get in, if Smash goes on long enough, but it won't happen anytime soon.

 

[majora_787]

Good God, what is with all the Goku suggestions? Really, there is a 0% chance of that happening. Also, is it just me, or has activity in the place really sky-rocketed within the past couple of days (especially the past few hours?!)?

Anyway, about Waluigi... the only thing he has going for him is popularity. That's it. It isn't even enough to warrant his inclusion in Smash at this point. There are still a few Mario characters who are much more important to the series, have around the same amount of popularity, and have a greater moveset potential then Waluigi. There is no way we'll see Waluigi in the game before characters like Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario. EVENTUALLY, he could get in, if Smash goes on long enough, but it won't happen anytime soon.

Wanna know what my theory is behind his popularity? Brawl In the Family. You know, the webcomic? I think they made him popular.

 

[RWB]

Technically, he IS a character, whether you like it or not. xD And wasn't he the main antagonist of that Mario DDR thing or something? I don't remember, but I'm trying to redeem him a tiny bit here.

Yes, he was.

He is a mainstay on just about any and all Mario sport game... frankly, any Mario multiplayer game. Toad always plays second banana in those nowadays. The typical lineup is this:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Daisy
Yoshi
Wario
Waluigi
Bowser
DK

with Jr added in as an afterthought.

ALL of those characters are in Smash except Daisy(again, pretty sure Waluigi stands a better chance than her), Waluigi... and Jr.

Really, from the Mario series, which characters are gonna get in before him? Toad(if he even gets the upgrade from being a special) and possibly Jr.? I highly doubt Paper Mario can steal the spot, despite the fact that I would love his inclusion.


Making a logical moveset for Waluigi is incredibly simple though, just give him sport moves for specials, quick punches for weaker attacks, kicks for powerful attacks(since he has noted leg strength). Oh, and give him his air swim as a multiple jump.

 

[majora_787]

Yes, he was.

He is a mainstay on just about any and all Mario sport game... frankly, any Mario multiplayer game. Toad always plays second banana in those nowadays. The typical lineup is this:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Daisy
Yoshi
Wario
Waluigi
Bowser
DK

with Jr added in as an afterthought.

ALL of those characters are in Smash except Daisy(again, pretty sure Waluigi stands a better chance than her), Waluigi... and Jr.

Really, from the Mario series, which characters are gonna get in before him? Toad(if he even gets the upgrade from being a special) and possibly Jr.? I highly doubt Paper Mario can steal the spot.

I think we should leave Mario alone and worry about more important characters in other important series that don't have 4 or more reps. Like Ridley.

 

[RWB]

Indeed. Just dealing with the "Waluigi= Unlikely" supposition- he is probably in the top 3 in Mario likelihood.

And Ridley just should be in. He should have been in MELEE.

 

[majora_787]

Not that I'm encouraging the "he's a dragon and is totally the same as Charizard" argument, but... He's like Charizard, and is the only other character I remember aside from Meowth who has been in EVERY SINGLE smash bros. that hasn't been playable yet.

 

[augustoflores]

well yeah, i suppose you would count a trophy, an appearance. frikkin meowth.

i have a bone to pick with people who want meowth in the next game... but not now, i feel the evil creep into my very soul yet again.... feels like im gonna kill someone.

 

[RWB]

Anyway, what characters would you consider likely to be dropped?

I'd say Ike is in the deepest ****.

 

[Shorts]

Indeed. Just dealing with the "Waluigi= Unlikely" supposition- he is probably in the top 3 in Mario likelihood.

And Ridley just should be in. He should have been in MELEE.

Nope.

Boswer Jr.
Toad
Paper Mario
Daisy
Geno
Fawful
Waluigi deserves to be down here. Next to Birdo.

Anyway, what characters would you consider likely to be dropped?

I'd say Ike is in the deepest ****.

Lucario.

 

[majora_787]

Anyway, what characters would you consider likely to be dropped?

I'd say Ike is the deepest ****.

Lucario and Pokemon Trainer are high up on the replacement block. And if there was a fire emblem game more recent than Ike's Radiant Dawn... not counting the remake of the second Fire Emblem that's in japan... I'd say Ike would be cut.

But I think he's safe for now.

I ALSO believe the link we have now will be replaced. But I don't think anyone will be intentionally scrapped for good. A couple replacements, maybe. But... no 'hey let's just **** up his ****'.

 

[JOE!]

Ike is a fan-favorite tho. If anyone would be cut, Id say Lucas.

also, if Zoroark would just clone some other char, what would even be the point of playing him over said char?

If he is a stand-alone ala Lucario the other player (unless (good) online mode) the other player would obviously know it's a zoroark anyways

 

[augustoflores]

has anyone made a genosect moveset on MYM or on youtube yet?

 

[majora_787]

Ike is a fan-favorite tho. If anyone would be cut, Id say Lucas.

also, if Zoroark would just clone some other char, what would even be the point of playing him over said char?

If he is a stand-alone ala Lucario the other player (unless (good) online mode) the other player would obviously know it's a zoroark anyways

x_x Lucas was supposed to replace Ness. I doubt he's gonna get cut. But I also doubt Ness will, either.

You know, this isn't pokemon, it's smash bros. The point wouldn't be to actually trick the opponent. r_r The point would be that you're using Zoroark, who is using his Illusion.

And technically, even in pokemon, all of the matches are 'online' (I count IR in this category). So, even if it's only a surprise online, it'd be just like the pokemon games. xD If two players sat at a console on the same TV and put together their pokemon teams, then it wouldn't be a surprise for them either.

 

[RWB]

Nope.

Boswer Jr.
Toad
Paper Mario
Daisy
Geno
Fawful
Waluigi deserves to be down here. Next to Birdo.

I said nothing of deserving(though that is very much subjective, especially in the case of Geno with his single appearance- though admittedly, Geno is popular, and Fawful is possibly even more so). I only said how likely he was.

He still is more likely than most of the people on your list.

Oh, and what, in your opinion, makes him less "deserving" than Daisy? I really like Daisy, but I wouldn't say she deserves the spot over him.

 

[JOE!]

Majora, you're missing the point of his whole illusion mechanic: it's soley to deceive people. hell, thats even the canon use of it.

If it;s not used to deceive, then whats the point of it?

 

[RWB]

Ike is a fan-favorite tho.

Hector is far more liked- and important, than Lyn ever was. Lyn was an assist trophy, Hector got a sticker. Just saying.

I doubt the FE characters has enough popularity to make Ike stay.




As for Lucario, his survival in SSB hangs heavily on his continued popularity.

 

[ChronoBound]

Anyway, what characters would you consider likely to be dropped?

I'd say Ike is in the deepest ****.

Lucario is the most likely I would say, but I would put either Toon Link or Ike as the second-most likely character to be cut.

Overall, here are the characters I think have a probability of being cut and the brief reasoning for each of them:


Lucario:
Primarily placed in to represent Diamond/Pearl, his time in the spotlight is now gone, and most of his popularity with it. Will likely be replaced with a new "flavor of the month" Pokemon in Smash 4.

Ike:
Primarily placed in to represent the Tellius arc in Fire Emblem (FE9/FE10). FE9/FE10 were among the poorest selling games in the series in Japan. The Tellius arc will likely not be revisited for this reason. If cut, Ike will likely be replaced with the most recent Fire Emblem lord at the time of development.

Toon Link:
Primarily placed in because he was the "newer" Young Link and was still receiving games at the time of Brawl's development. Since Toon Link will be going into "retirement" according to Auonoma, and Young Link's games are being remade, its quite possible Toon Link will be swapped for Young Link, or an entirely new Zelda character will be placed in.

Wolf:
Krystal's fans are whining that she deserves a spot. However, Star Fox certainly does not deserve four slots. There is a good chance that if Krystal does get in, it will involve Wolf getting axed.

Snake:
Primarily placed in due to a personal friendship between Sakurai and Metal Gear creator Hideo Kojima. If Sakurai does not return to direct, there is a good chance that Snake will be axed seeing as his inclusion was basically a personal favor. Also, we do not know Sakurai's or the Smash Bros. series' policy regarding "guests". In most fighting series, "guests" are dropped in the next game and usually never return.

Sonic:
See the latter explanation for Snake. We do not know Sakurai's or the Smash Bros. series' policy regarding "guests". In most fighting series, "guests" are dropped in the next game and usually never return.

Squirtle:
Pokemon Trainer may be dropped since so many characters are needed to be programmed for his slot. Also, there is the possibility that Game Freak, whom has a heavy hand in determining Pokemon content for Smash Bros, will want for the Pokemon Trainer to have Pokemon from another generation, thereby axing PT's current Pokemon.

Ivysaur:
Pokemon Trainer may be dropped since so many characters are needed to be programmed for his slot. Also, there is the possibility that Game Freak, whom has a heavy hand in determining Pokemon content for Smash Bros, will want for the Pokemon Trainer to have Pokemon from another generation, thereby axing PT's current Pokemon.

Charizard:
Pokemon Trainer may be dropped since so many characters are needed to be programmed for his slot. Also, there is the possibility that Game Freak, whom has a heavy hand in determining Pokemon content for Smash Bros, will want for the Pokemon Trainer to have Pokemon from another generation, thereby axing PT's current Pokemon.

Lucas:
A luigified-clone that is less popular than the original. The Mother series is finished, and two of its three games are Japan-only. Sakurai may opt to cut Lucas if space for the next Smash Bros. is limited considering that Lucas represents a dead series that is mostly Japan-only and the character itself is among the least popular newcomers introduced in Brawl.

ROB:
The reaction to ROB was about the same as it was to Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link in Melee. ROB also the only character series not represented with a stage. ROB might have been placed in Brawl as plot device for the SSE. ROB is less likely to be cut than the other characters mentioned thus far, however, keep in mind that ROB was among the few Mario Kart racer veterans not to have been playable in Mario Kart Wii.

Note this list is not about characters that are "likely" to be cut, but rather characters whom are plausible to be put on the "chopping block". The Brawl newcomers whom have almost no chance of facing the chopping block are Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Pit, and Olimar.

 

[augustoflores]

Hector is far more liked- and important, than Lyn ever was. Lyn was an assist trophy, Hector got a sticker. Just saying.

I doubt the FE characters has enough popularity to make Ike stay.

what is this i don't even...

 

[Pizza Sauce]

dbz... /facepalm
who's letting these new**** speak? (i think I've been spending too much time on 4Chan)

what's up, G? I'm letting myself speak. Are you too cool for dbz? wow, I'm gonna call nintendo and ask them to let you design the new sb game. you can go back to 4chan now, weakling.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

@RBW:
I would put Waluigi higher on the list than Daisy, considering Daisy is extremely identical to Peach and not quite as popular as Waluigi. But at the same time, I would not seriously expect either of them in SSB4. If you think their is a high possibility, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Even IF you doubt Paper Mario, don't forget that we have Toad and Bowser Jr. still beating out Waluigi. After the inclusion of those two I'd say the Mario series is perfect and in no need of any more characters. Waluigi has a chance... in maybe a decade or so from now.

Also, Ike has a very SMALL chance of being cut. Why would he even be cut in the first place? The only character that I expect to get cut is Lucario, and thats it.

what's up, G? I'm letting myself speak. Are you too cool for dbz? wow, I'm gonna call nintendo and ask them to let you design the new sb game. you can go back to 4chan now, weakling.

Super Smash Bros. is too cool for DBZ.

 

[JOE!]

Also, why do people here keep saying paper mario would be a luigified mario?

I mean, arent the hammer, partners, abilities, etc enough? As well as action commands...

 

[majora_787]

@ JOE!

Sometimes you have to compromise on movesets.

@ Chronobound

There's a brand new non-remake fire emblem game coming out even remotely soon? Or, even one about to enter development?

... I still do not believe in cutting either Falco or Wolf for the less valuable Krystal. But... if they had to cut someone, it might actually be Falco...

AGAIN, Lucas was originally intended to replace Ness. Unless they have someone to replace LUCAS, this would be counterproductive.

I thought they were cutting Ice Climbers. But they kept them. I actually think they'll keep R.O.B.

@ the list with Geno among mario characters...

He's property of Square Enix. Just sayin.

@ JOE! again...

I don't think he would be. But... Characters like Waweegee? Daisy? Krystal? Paper Mario? Dixie Kong?

They aren't guaranteed to be clones. Not at all. But it's certainly possible for any of them. Especially Krystal, who could reasonable be cloned off two characters.

 

[ChronoBound]

@RBW:
Also, Ike has a very SMALL chance of being cut. Why would he even be cut in the first place? The only character that I expect to get cut is Lucario, and thats it.

There is a very good chance we will be staring down massive cuts from Brawl's roster. The Smash 4 team could very well struggle to get to 45 playable characters (transformations included) within the development time and budget allotted for it. Lots of Japanese developers have struggled with PS3/XBOX360 level hardware, which is a large reason why lots of developers there shifted over to the DS/PSP.

If Sakurai can only get the total roster number to the mid-40's, then do expect at least four characters to be cut from Brawl's roster. I think its possible we may even see HALF of Brawl's newcomers axed depending upon how low the total playable character count is.

Remember very few fighting games have gone beyond 40 playable characters, and if they do its usually barely (usually 40-42). The only fighting games that make it to 50 beyond are games in which they have "copy and pasted" previous characters from multiple almost yearly installments utilizing the same game engine.

 

[majora_787]

There is a very good chance we will be staring down massive cuts from Brawl's roster. The Smash 4 team could very well struggle to get to 45 playable characters (transformations included) within the development time and budget allotted for it. Lots of Japanese developers have struggled with PS3/XBOX360 level hardware, which is a large reason why lots of developers there shifted over to the DS/PSP.

If Sakurai can only get the total roster number to the mid-40's, then do expect at least four characters to be cut from Brawl's roster. I think its possible we may even see HALF of Brawl's newcomers axed depending upon how low the total playable character count is.

Remember very few fighting games have gone beyond 40 playable characters, and if they do its usually barely (usually 40-42). The only fighting games that make it to 50 beyond are games in which they have "copy and pasted" previous characters from multiple almost yearly installments utilizing the same game engine.

I see a huge contradiction. Wouldn't it be much better for their budget and time slot to make NO cuts and just add fewer characters than they would otherwise? I mean in all seriousness, more cuts means more slots they'd end up filling with things made from scratch.

 

[Pizza Sauce]

@RBW:
I would put Waluigi higher on the list than Daisy, considering Daisy is extremely identical to Peach and not quite as popular as Waluigi. But at the same time, I would not seriously expect either of them in SSB4. If you think their is a high possibility, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Even IF you doubt Paper Mario, don't forget that we have Toad and Bowser Jr. still beating out Waluigi. After the inclusion of those two I'd say the Mario series is perfect and in no need of any more characters. Waluigi has a chance... in maybe a decade or so from now.

Also, Ike has a very SMALL chance of being cut. Why would he even be cut in the first place? The only character that I expect to get cut is Lucario, and thats it.



Super Smash Bros. is too cool for DBZ.

Okay, cut Lucario, add Vegeta. Problem solved! Anyway, they can't cut Ike, that would be a huge mistake.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I see a huge contradiction. Wouldn't it be much better for their budget and time slot to make NO cuts and just add fewer characters than they would otherwise? I mean in all seriousness, more cuts means more slots they'd end up filling with things made from scratch.

This is true.

Also, while we can't expect every character to stay, and while we have to be ready for at least a couple swap-outs or cuts, I don't think we'll see the same amount we saw in Melee. The less characters cut, the more happy the fans are.

And I don't see any reason to cut characters like Lucas and Ike because "there games weren't that popular" or "they don't appear anymore." Now that they are actually on Smash's playable roster, it really doesn't matter how old their games are or how popular they were. The fact is that they are in the series already, so they are familiar to all Smash fans and favored by many Smash fans. There needs to be a good reason to cut a character, like in Lucario's case (representing the latest generation).

 

[ChronoBound]

I see a huge contradiction. Wouldn't it be much better for their budget and time slot to make NO cuts and just add fewer characters than they would otherwise? I mean in all seriousness, more cuts means more slots they'd end up filling with things made from scratch.

Um, literally everything is done through scratch for a new engine. Also, assuming Sakurai does not cut anyone, and the roster is capped at 48 playable characters (including transformations), we would be looking at only NINE newcomers. I think Sakurai would rather axe some of the guys from Brawl than put up with 'wah wah wah, Smash 4 has less newcomers than even Smash 64. Sakurai is a hack and washed-up. wah".

I think there is also a very good chance that development for Smash 4 (as in the actual programming) will be done by a team with a lot of previous experience for consoles with PS3/360 level power. Hopefully, that will mitigate the amount of cuts that will be made and also provide for a larger roster.

The problem is that many people don't at least consider scenarios such as low rosters and massive cuts to be possibilities. They end up being disappointed when such scenarios DO end up being true.

Street Fighter IV, Tekken 6, Soul Calibur 4 , Marvel vs. Capcom 3 each had rosters in total count from 35-40. I think Smash 4 might actually break 40 due to the possibility of Sakurai barely changing any of the returning characters, but otherwise he may be in for some tough decisions.

 

[RWB]

@RBW:

Why do everyone get that wrong? It's RWB, which is both my initials and the acronym of Royal Wrecking Ball.

I would put Waluigi higher on the list than Daisy, considering Daisy is extremely identical to Peach and not quite as popular as Waluigi. But at the same time, I would not seriously expect either of them in SSB4. If you think their is a high possibility, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

I don't expect Waluigi in SSB4. SSB5 perhaps. I wouldn't be surprised if Waluigi nailed an SSB4 spot, though- and I certainly hope people realize he has a realistic chance to be there.

Even IF you doubt Paper Mario, don't forget that we have Toad and Bowser Jr. still beating out Waluigi. After the inclusion of those two I'd say the Mario series is perfect and in no need of any more characters.

Toad could easily be bypassed(as he is in the actual Mario series nowadays), though I do see Jr. getting in. Jr, in my opinion, is the most likely addition to the Mario faction in SSB4.

Also, Ike has a very SMALL chance of being cut. Why would he even be cut in the first place? The only character that I expect to get cut is Lucario, and thats it.

As said above: "Primarily placed in to represent the Tellius arc in Fire Emblem (FE9/FE10). FE9/FE10 were among the poorest selling games in the series in Japan"

 

[BirthNote]

Between Toad, Jr., and Paper Mario, I wouldn't be surprised if Toad was chosen because he doesn't look like Bowser or Mario, respectively.

@Shortie regarding Pokemon
Fine, I made a mistake by mentioning Ash. I'll take him out of the equation if I ever bring that idea up again. I have more to say, but for now, let's agree to disagree and move on.

So, if Sakurai isn't in smash 4's development, he'll probably still have a hand in it. I'm going to use Miyamoto and DKCR as an example: He didn't direct or design it, but he did give some input and guidelines.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I really don't think they should cut anyone they've already added in previous games from it. It's just weird to introduce a character get good or connected to them, and then have em cut the next game. I like lucario's presents in this game and I'm gonna be just as bummed if he gets removed as I did when mewtwo was removed. I'm sure no one would mind a few more pokemanz.