[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[PD4FR]

SSB4 needs 2 playable characters added:
1. Banjo and Kazooie (as one character)
2. Grunty

Too bad this will probably never happen, because of Microsoft.

 

[majora_787]

SSB4 needs 2 playable characters added:
1. Banjo and Kazooie (as one character)
2. Grunty

Too bad this will probably never happen, because of Microsoft.

"You can't take from Microsoft! They stole their ideas fair and square, nobody else should have a pick at them."

I stick by this, even five years later. =P

 

[PD4FR]

"You can't take from Microsoft! They stole their ideas fair and square, nobody else should have a pick at them."

I stick by this, even five years later. =P

I know, and I agree; I just think it's sad that those characters will probably never be in Brawl.
I'd love to main Banjo/Kazooie and Grunty in SSB4, but I know it won't happen.

 

[BirthNote]

Yeah, BK have alot of potential for the series, but it wouldn't happen. Oh well...

 

[DekuBoy]

Microsoft didn't steal Rare they bought them.

And despite having better hardware, which they complained about in the past, they have yet to make any decent games for X-Box.

Banjo is a character I consider to be the most Nintendo-ish non-Nintendo character ever.

Sorry Chrono, I was just wondering : what's your opinion on Wolf and Lucario staying? I enjoy your li'l essays.

 

[PD4FR]

Microsoft didn't steal Rare they bought them.

When Majora said, "They stole their ideas fair and square", he's saying that Microsoft bought Rare (hence the fair and square part), and then stole the idea of Banjo and Kazooie.

No one ever said, or at least was trying to imply, that Microsoft stole Rare.

Edit - I vote Domo.
Even if he has nothing to do with Nintendo.

 

[majora_787]

I honestly have no connection with Banjo Kazooie. I think I played it once as a rental, but got to play it for about an hour before it was accidentally returned by a friend of mine because I left it on the table with his movie rentals. r_r Yep.

My connection belongs to Ocarina of Time. Also to Starwars Episode 1 Racer, my first video game ever in the history of the universe. <_<

Yeh, I never said Microsoft stole RARE, I said they stole IDEAS. And because they steal ideas, they'd never let anyone else use them. Because you know, nobody likes to hand out their hard-stolen work. :3

Domo? Oh boy. xD That's really....wow.

 

[DekuBoy]

When Majora said, "They stole their ideas fair and square", he's saying that Microsoft bought Rare (hence the fair and square part), and then stole the idea of Banjo and Kazooie.

No one ever said, or at least was trying to imply, that Microsoft stole Rare.

Edit - I vote Domo.
Even if he has nothing to do with Nintendo.

Uh, if Rare own Banjo Kazooie then Microsoft didn't steal them. Microsoft bought 'em and Nintendo were idiots to do it.

 

[PD4FR]

Domo? Oh boy. xD That's really....wow.

You can't deny that it would be awesome.

Uh, if Rare own Banjo Kazooie then Microsoft didn't steal them. Microsoft bought 'em and Nintendo were idiots to do it.

Microsoft didn't come up with the idea, they just bought the people that made it so that they could use it. I may be biased, because I loved Rare back when they were with Nintendo, but that might as well be stealing in my eyes. Technically, you could say they didn't steal it, but morally, I believe they pretty much did.

 

[BirthNote]

Banjo and Kazooie have alot of potential. I know that it won't happen, but if this did happen they can have a good variety of moves. I personally think that their specials should mainly come from their first game, while stuff like their tilts and smashes come from Banjo-Tooie. The reason why is because these two have many more moves in the sequel. One thing I have been thinking about is this: you know how every Smash Brother has a double jump? Should that apply to Banjo and Kazooie in which case they lose their hover ability, or should they be able to jump, and have the double-jump replaced by Kazooie's flapping, which makes them hover for a short time? It makes them unique, but that extra jump is useful, especially if you fall too far.

Also, Kazooie has 5 egg choices: regular, fire, grenade, ice and a remote controlled bomb. The four choices that come after regular eggs are from the sequel. That sounds overpowering and confusing to switch between 5 projectiles, so I think the regular are the best choice to use only.

I have more questions that I'm uncertain about, like transformations (Dragon Kazooie for example), but I'm going to stop here because I'm pretty sure that the FE discussion is still alive.

 

[PD4FR]

Banjo and Kazooie have alot of potential. I know that it won't happen, but if this did happen they can have a good variety of moves. I personally think that their specials should mainly come from their first game, while stuff like their tilts and smashes come from Banjo-Tooie. The reason why is because these two have many more moves in the sequel. One thing I have been thinking about is this: you know how every Smash Brother has a double jump? Should that apply to Banjo and Kazooie in which case they lose their hover ability, or should they be able to jump, and have the double-jump replaced by Kazooie's flapping, which makes them hover for a short time? It makes them unique, but that extra jump is useful, especially if you fall too far.

Also, Kazooie has 5 egg choices: regular, fire, grenade, ice and a remote controlled bomb. The four choices that come after regular eggs are from the sequel. That sounds overpowering and confusing to switch between 5 projectiles, so I think the regular are the best choice to use only.

I have more questions that I'm uncertain about, like transformations (Dragon Kazooie for example), but I'm going to stop here because I'm pretty sure that the FE discussion is still alive.

My two cents on BK, because I brought it up, lol:
First jump - Banjo does his jump from BK.
Jumps 2-4 are done by Kazooie via red feathers. (They act like they would in BK)
Up B is a Beak Bomb Dive which goes in a straight direction which you choose. Slight start-up lag, as well as slight landing lag.
Down B would be like Olimar's Down B. You switch between the 4 types of eggs in BT, except for the Remote Controlled one.
Forward B is the remote controlled egg. Only lasts ten seconds before automatically exploding.
The egg you have equipped would be next to your stock info at the bottom of the screen.
Neutral B = Shoot egg
Final Smash - If Grunty is not in the game, then Hag 1 shows up. If Grunty is also a playable character, then dragon kazooie, and you fly around and breath fire.
Tilts and smashes would be from the games.

Then again, this would never happen, so I'm wasting my time.

Edit - If you never played the game, you won't understand any of this.

Edit 2 - I'd also like to suggest Marina Lightyear from Mischief Makers to be a character in SSB4.

 

[majora_787]

Edit - If you never played the game, you won't understand any of this.

I played the game for an hour years ago, and understood none of that. No worries. :3

 

[ChronoBound]

I have a question to all of those that are following this topic.

Which Mario newcomer would you like to see in Smash 4 out of the following:
- Dr. Mario
- Paper Mario
- Toad
- Bowser Jr.

Choose only one.

 

[PD4FR]

I have a question to all of those that are following this topic.

Which Mario newcomer would you like to see in Smash 4 out of the following:
- Dr. Mario
- Paper Mario
- Toad
- Bowser Jr.

Choose only one.

Dr. Mario never really worked out, in my opinion.
Bowser Jr.? It seems like he'd be a clone.
What would Toad even do?
My vote is Paper Mario.

Paper Mario
His tilts would use hammer; down tilt would be a sweep, up tilt could be a hammer throw, kind of like Link's boomerang, but upwards.
Smashes; Upsmash similar to D3's, Downsmash would be a jump and pound into the ground-it would start fast, but have a little lag at the end. Forward smash = same as TTYD's power smash.
B moves; This is where his many partners would come in. I don't feel like deciding what and who and which and all that right now.
Spot dodge - he would turn sideways like in TTYD.
Roll - His spinning run in TTYD, except you're not running.
Final Smash - Shadow Queen shows up and demolishes.

These are just what I came up with off the top of my head.

Edit - For his B moves, it could be kind of like Olimar, in that he down Bs to switch between different Partners (Maybe 3 partners, max), and the other three B moves would be three unique moves for that partner. SSB4 would have to decide which partners would make it into the game, though.

 

[majora_787]

In my opinion, Paper Mario could be more of a clone than Bowser Jr. The reason is this...

Bowser's moves are the moves of a heavyweight.

Bowser Jr. is Mario's weight at best. He won't be able to suplex someone, crash down on them, I don't THINK he can breathe fire... The only special he can probably do at all is the Whirling Fortress. And for the rest of the moves, mostly the same deal.

Paper Mario, on the other hand, is Mario. He is 2-D, but he is Mario. They could make him a clone of G&W or Mario, maybe even a mix of both if they got lazy.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Paper Mario series. The first two games, anyway. But I feel that Paper Mario is... not the best choice for the roster, like Krystal, and also like Krystal, could be easily cloned or luigied by lazy programming or time cuts.

I don't feel Toad could work out. At all, really. I honestly feel people mostly support him for the same reason people support Goomba. And those ideas are about the same in quality.

I would rather get JOONYAH than Dr. Mario's return. Doc Mario was cool *aesthetically*. I would LOVE if they turned him into a costume set for Mario, either way. But if it comes to roster space, JOONYAH for sure. =P

Don't ask why I'm saying it that way. xD

EDIT: I actually think few people know my SSB4 wishlist. I mean, everyone knows I heart teh Ridleyz. But I think I'll share my wants here.

- Zant. I feel he was an amusing endgame boss in Twilight Princess. I just wish they had left it alone and made him the final boss. >_< It was disappointing to find out Zant was only the Disc One Boss.

- Wolf Link/Midna. I feel like it would have been a cool character, but it's probably too late by now. Then again, Mario DID suddenly get FLUDD from a game made years prior to Brawl's 06 announcement.

- The Black Knight. There are better FE characters, but I think he would be a very amusing UBERHEAVYWEIGHT sword user. Ike is more like Light Heavyweight in my opinion.

- Gharnef. An evil magic user, and a good Fire Emblem rep. =P

- Caeda/Nephenee. A lance user, and well spent FE roster spot. Caeda is important, but I think Nephenee is teh kick455.

- Navarre. He's just awesome.

- Krystal. Come the day when Starfox earns a 4th select box, Krystal is fine with me. I just hope they don't Zamus her if they do.

- Ridley. We all knew this. And know this still.

- Dark Samus. Only if they make her awesome.

- Medusa/Palutena. Kid Icarus is getting revived, of COURSE it can get a second rep. I hope for Medusa personally, but that's my like for villains speaking.

- Mewtwo. He shouldn't have been cut.

- Zoroark. We know it's gonna happen.

- Gold. I would LOVE two pokemon trainers for two generations. But that's just me.

- Ruby. If they decided to make a 3rd gen one instead of a 2nd gen one, I would be even happier. But you know.

- Roy. I think he could be made better.

- K. Rool. If he gets his return, I feel he's still available for the DK 3rd slot. I feel like he should have it more than Dixie, but that's just me.

- Bowser JOONYAH. I just talked about this.

- Paper Mario. He's fine with me if they really make it work, but I would MUCH rather have JOONYAH.

- Little Mac. He'd make a cool retro addition IMO. :3

- Takamaru. Same reason. Not only that, he's to Link what Pit is to Samus, isn't he? You know: engine buddies.

- Neku Sakuraba. I wouldn't say he has NO CHANCE. But I doubt Nintendo would ask for Neku, they'd ask for Cloud or something.

- Sho Minamimoto. Same reason.

The 0% Club: Gray Fox, Pyramid Head, Leon Kennedy, Trace, Sylux... They're all kickass, and the last two were the only cool characters in Hunters IMO. Aside from Samus.

Topping this list, of course, are Ridley, Gharnef, Zant, Bowser Jr., Mewtwo, and Medusa. =P Of course, only 3 or 4 of them are THAT likely.

 

[Rychu]

Just puttin my 2 cents in for my wishlist.

Paper Mario, i just dont see how they could **** him up

Zorroark, same as majora 797

Mewtwo, again same as above

Stanley the Bugman, i just think unique things could be done with him

Travis Touchdown, **** Sonic, put Travvie in instead

3rd Gen PokeTrainer, Blaziken and Treeko ftw

Leon, i want him cuz he haz a similar last name as me :D

Funky Kong OR DK Jr, cuz their cool

Hector, nevah played FE, but me wantz axe

(heres teh dum one) Jimmy Hopkins from Bully, because it'd be cool to have another realistic rep.

Ganondorf w/ Sword, because he'd be even more of a tank

Li'l Mac, nostalgia

Plusle&Minun, awwwwwwww

and the last, Hammer Bro, because Sakurai said he could make them work, and i really want to see him try

 

[Arcadenik]

@ PD4FR and majora_787

What the f*** are you two talking about? Toad cannot do anything?! You two need to play Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii before you say ignorant things about Toad for the umpeenth time. Go download the first two games I listed from Wii's Virtual Console, it will only cost you ten dollars.

Also, majora, what are you talking about? People support Toad for the same reasons they support Goomba? Goomba won't work at all - he's got no arms so he is out so don't compare Toad with Goomba. One more thing, in case you didn't notice but out of all the generic species in the whole Mario series, only Toads and Yoshis are ever playable in the main games. That automatically makes Yoshi and Toad far more important than Goomba, Koopa, Shy Guy, Boo, etc.

Seriously, I am really sick of the "Toad cannot do anything" arguments as a reason to exclude Toad from Smash. R.O.B. virtually cannot do anything at all in real life and yet he is a fighting robot in Smash!

@ ChronoBound

I choose Toad, obviously. To me, he is the last Mario all-star to be unplayable so far. Toad can use the moves he used in Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario's Woods and he can borrow the moves the two Toads used in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Hey, if it is perfectly fine for Yoshi to use his own moves from Super Mario World and borrow the moves the generic Yoshis used in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, it should be perfectly fine for Toad to do the same.

Bowser Jr. doesn't exactly stand out at all since he is basically Baby Bowser with a bandana (which is funny when you realize that the developers made Baby Bowser look like Bowser Jr. in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time) and he would just end up as a lightweight smaller clone of Bowser. Bowser Jr. usually fights inside a mech in almost every main game he appeared in. Seriously, with the exception of New Super Mario Bros. for the DS, you will notice that Bowser Jr. never engages in hand-to-hand combat with Mario outside of a mech. What the hell is Sakurai going to base his moveset on if Bowser Jr. never fights outside of a mech? Bowser himself, of course.

Paper Mario... he is just another version of Mario and we don't really need a character like him to represent a RPG sub-series. If we add Paper Mario, we might as well add Paper Luigi, Paper Bowser, and Paper Peach. I think a stage would be suitable to represent a RPG sub-series just like how Mario Circuit represented the Mario Kart sub-series and the Waluigi Assist Trophy represented the Mario Tennis sub-series.

Dr. Mario... ugh, he never deserved to be playable in Melee in the first place. He only represented the Dr. Mario sub-series and he was not added because he was so important or so popular. No, he was added as a quick last-minute addition to make the Melee roster look bigger than it really is. We don't need different versions of Mario just to represent each sub-series. If we had to do that, we might as well put in Striker Mario to represent Super Mario Strikers sub-series.

 

[PD4FR]

@ PD4FR and majora_787

What the f*** are you two talking about? Toad cannot do anything?! You two need to play Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii before you say ignorant things about Toad for the umpeenth time. Go download the first two games I listed from Wii's Virtual Console, it will only cost you ten dollars.

I played SMB2 and New SMB Wii, and I don't remember him being able to do much in those, actually. Elaborate, please?

Paper Mario... he is just another version of Mario and we don't really need a character like him to represent a RPG sub-series. If we add Paper Mario, we might as well add Paper Luigi, Paper Bowser, and Paper Peach. I think a stage would be suitable to represent a RPG sub-series just like how Mario Circuit represented the Mario Kart sub-series and the Waluigi Assist Trophy represented the Mario Tennis sub-series.

I don't think you read my Paper Mario post on this page. You should, I made him original.

Dr. Mario... ugh, he never deserved to be playable in Melee in the first place.

I agree, he should be a costume at best.

ATTN: Majora - You think Paper Mario would be a clone, too? Go read my post, now.

 

[ChronoBound]

@ ChronoBound

I choose Toad, obviously. To me, he is the last Mario all-star to be unplayable so far. Toad can use the moves he used in Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario's Woods and he can borrow the moves the two Toads used in New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Hey, if it is perfectly fine for Yoshi to use his own moves from Super Mario World and borrow the moves the generic Yoshis used in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, it should be perfectly fine for Toad to do the same.

Bowser Jr. doesn't exactly stand out at all since he is basically Baby Bowser with a bandana (which is funny when you realize that the developers made Baby Bowser look like Bowser Jr. in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time) and he would just end up as a lightweight smaller clone of Bowser. Bowser Jr. usually fights inside a mech in almost every main game he appeared in. Seriously, with the exception of New Super Mario Bros. for the DS, you will notice that Bowser Jr. never engages in hand-to-hand combat with Mario outside of a mech. What the hell is Sakurai going to base his moveset on if Bowser Jr. never fights outside of a mech? Bowser himself, of course.

Paper Mario... he is just another version of Mario and we don't really need a character like him to represent a RPG sub-series. If we add Paper Mario, we might as well add Paper Luigi, Paper Bowser, and Paper Peach. I think a stage would be suitable to represent a RPG sub-series just like how Mario Circuit represented the Mario Kart sub-series and the Waluigi Assist Trophy represented the Mario Tennis sub-series.

Dr. Mario... ugh, he never deserved to be playable in Melee in the first place. He only represented the Dr. Mario sub-series and he was not added because he was so important or so popular. No, he was added as a quick last-minute addition to make the Melee roster look bigger than it really is. We don't need different versions of Mario just to represent each sub-series. If we had to do that, we might as well put in Striker Mario to represent Super Mario Strikers sub-series.

Ah, I like your reasoning. Personally, I am partial toward Toad since I really like Wario's Woods.

Also, I think you might find this interesting.

http://kotaku.com/5035884/and-japans-favorite-video-game-characters-are

Apparently, Toad is one of the most popular video game characters in Japan, placing above even Link, Samus, Kirby, Mega Man, and Ryu from Street Fighter.

However, I personally thought Doc was a good choice for a Mario clone in Melee since he at least represented the Dr. Mario series and Nintendo's puzzle history. However, I agree that Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario are better choices than him.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd go with Toad, but I would love for Dr. Mario to return as an alternate costume.

 

[Starphoenix]

It is between Paper Mario and Toad for me, I really like both characters. I might lean a little more towards Paper Mario just because I would like to get a stage and some music. I know the thought of having dual Mario's annoys people but there is absolutely no reason for him to be a clone. He won't even have the same model as Mario!

Though Toad is good for me as well. I love that little mushroom!

 

[Arcadenik]

I played SMB2 and New SMB Wii, and I don't remember him being able to do much in those, actually. Elaborate, please?

Do you realize how stupid that statement is?

Mario and Luigi (and Peach in SMB2) were playable in those games, too. You are essentially saying they weren't able to do much either if you are saying Toad(s) didn't do much in those games.

You want me to elaborate? Fine.

Toad's Brawl trophy said Toad had superhuman strength in SMB2. This is true. He's the only one who pulls vegetables the fastest compared to everyone. If we extend this to Wario's Woods, it is even more obvious that Toad really does have superhuman strength if he is able to lift and carry stacks of enemies and bombs with ease. How do we apply this in Smash? Easy, give him the ability to lift and carry enemies the same way Donkey Kong already does in Smash.

Toad needs a recovery move (up+B). What can Toad use to recover? NSMBWii provides us the answer: Propeller Mushroom (or Propeller Block). Even though Toad himself wasn't playable in NSMBWii, two generic Toads were so it wouldn't look out of place to see Toad himself using the same moves the two generic Toads used in NSMBWii.

Toad's Melee trophy mentioned Toad's agility in kart-driving. This is true. Toad is usually one of the fastest kart drivers in the Mario Kart series and is associated with the speed-boosting Golden Mushroom item. How do we apply this in Smash? He could bring out his racing kart and start driving around in a similar manner like Wario's Bike. Bonus points if Toad could spin-jump with the kart to attack in the air, too (based on the Feather item in the original SMK).

Toad is associated with mushrooms for obvious reasons. I think this could translate well into Smash where Toad uses random mushrooms to counter enemy attacks like how Peach is associated with Toads and uses a Toad (possibly a Mushroom Retainer) to counter enemy attacks in Smash.

Toad is apparently the leader of the Toad Brigade in both Super Mario Galaxy games. The Toad Brigade are usually associated with these games that I think they could be incorporated into Toad's Galaxy-inspired Final Smash. This Final Smash, I call it "Star Festival", is where Star Bits start to rain on the stage. Toad catches a Star Bit and four more Toads appear and they are carrying Star Bits and a Grand Star (just like the intro in Super Mario Galaxy). The Toads race to the Starshroom and it leaves the stage. Star Bits keep raining all over the stage and the opponents are getting hit. The storm clears up and the Starshroom comes down and Toad jumps out.

Toad cannot do anything, my foot!

 

[Starphoenix]

Just want you to know I like the Final Smash idea Arc. Just sounds a tad to much like Olimar's Final Day though. Really, when has that stopped Sakurai? *cough3Landmasterscough*

 

[majora_787]

>_< It doesn't matter if Paper Mario ***CAN*** be made original. What matters is, when would he be put in the game? If he's put in at the VERY END when they're almost out of time in development, I don't think it matters anymore. He's gonna be cloned.

<_< Also, Bowser Jr. would be a luigi-clone of bowser at best. At least he fights at ALL, even if it is in mechs. ._. What you basically said was, Toad can carry stuff, throw stuff, and use a powerup. MARIO can do all of those, even if the first two wouldn't be as well as Toad can.

I see a slight problem with a moveset based off Mario Kart. If he had ONE MOVE based off Mario Kart, that works, but he's ripping off WARIO.

...And lastly, star bits were collectable items. I don't...think...that works... It'd be like if Samus had a final smash where missile expansions and energy tanks fell from the sky. Or Kirby has Maximum Tomatoes fall from the sky. Oh the inhumanity? Uhm...

But I could see how it COULD work. . . . Even if it ALSO is kinda like Olimar's FS.

Also, one more thing: R.O.B. can't do anything in RL. Okay, but this is a video game. That argument doesn't APPLY. ._. And as to Bowser Jr. not doing hand-to-hand? Everyone in the entire game. You think they all use their ENTIRE SMASH MOVESETS? Nooooo.

And I didn't mean Toad-Goomba as in Toad can't do anything. Toad can do more than Goomba.......... Uhm... barely, but it's true. What I MEANT was, they're iconic and in I THINK every Mario game ever made. So people want Goomba and Toad in for the same reason. >_< And honestly, neither one is that much better... It's like wanting a Metroid. It's UNDERSTANDABLE... to an extent... because it's the generic enemy mascot... But... what can it DO?

Spoiler

That was a rhetorical question.

 

[PD4FR]

Do you realize how stupid that statement is?

Ouch.

Mario and Luigi (and Peach in SMB2) were playable in those games, too. You are essentially saying they weren't able to do much either if you are saying Toad(s) didn't do much in those games.

You want me to elaborate? Fine.

Toad's Brawl trophy said Toad had superhuman strength in SMB2. This is true. He's the only one who pulls vegetables the fastest compared to everyone. If we extend this to Wario's Woods, it is even more obvious that Toad really does have superhuman strength if he is able to lift and carry stacks of enemies and bombs with ease. How do we apply this in Smash? Easy, give him the ability to lift and carry enemies the same way Donkey Kong already does in Smash.

Toad needs a recovery move (up+B). What can Toad use to recover? NSMBWii provides us the answer: Propeller Mushroom (or Propeller Block). Even though Toad himself wasn't playable in NSMBWii, two generic Toads were so it wouldn't look out of place to see Toad himself using the same moves the two generic Toads used in NSMBWii.

Toad's Melee trophy mentioned Toad's agility in kart-driving. This is true. Toad is usually one of the fastest kart drivers in the Mario Kart series and is associated with the speed-boosting Golden Mushroom item. How do we apply this in Smash? He could bring out his racing kart and start driving around in a similar manner like Wario's Bike. Bonus points if Toad could spin-jump with the kart to attack in the air, too (based on the Feather item in the original SMK).

Toad is associated with mushrooms for obvious reasons. I think this could translate well into Smash where Toad uses random mushrooms to counter enemy attacks like how Peach is associated with Toads and uses a Toad (possibly a Mushroom Retainer) to counter enemy attacks in Smash.

Toad is apparently the leader of the Toad Brigade in both Super Mario Galaxy games. The Toad Brigade are usually associated with these games that I think they could be incorporated into Toad's Galaxy-inspired Final Smash. This Final Smash, I call it "Star Festival", is where Star Bits start to rain on the stage. Toad catches a Star Bit and four more Toads appear and they are carrying Star Bits and a Grand Star (just like the intro in Super Mario Galaxy). The Toads race to the Starshroom and it leaves the stage. Star Bits keep raining all over the stage and the opponents are getting hit. The storm clears up and the Starshroom comes down and Toad jumps out.

Toad cannot do anything, my foot!

I admit you have some good points, but a lot of what you're saying would be copying other characters. You're essentially giving him a cargo hold, a "Wario bike" basically, and Peach's neutral B. Also, I was just saying he didn't have a LOT of UNIQUE things going for him in the games I played. I never played Wario's Woods. The final smash seems pretty similar to Olimar, as well. The UpB is a good idea, though.

 

[Starphoenix]

Actually my point on Paper Mario is he cannot be a clone because his model would be drastically different than Mario's.

 

[Arcadenik]

Star Bits can be used as projectiles if you pointed your Wii Remote at the TV screen and pressed the B button. So they are more than just collectibles that I think they would work just fine. Oh, and Kirby's Final Smash can cause Maxim Tomatoes to rain from the pot (granted it is not from the sky but it can still cause Maxim Tomatoes to rain).

As for Toad's kart ripping off Wario's bike... so what? R.O.B.'s side+B ripped off Pit's side+B. Charizard's B ripped off Bowser's B. Mario's down+B ripped off Squirtle's B. Luigi's side+B ripped off Pikachu's side+B. Ike's down+B ripped off Marth's down+B. Lucario's B ripped off Samus's B. Pokemon Trainer's down+B ripped off Zelda's down+B. Zelda's B ripped off Fox's down+B. At least my moveset ideas would not make Toad a clone nor a semi-clone of Wario nor anyone else.

Also, just because Toad(s) can do the same things Mario and Luigi can in SMB2 and NSMBWii doesn't mean Toad has to be a clone of Mario or Luigi. Mario already uses the Cape and Toad cannot use it because he was not in Super Mario World and never used the Cape. Luigi's side+B was made-up and I hope Toad does not get this made-up move (not that it will stop Sakurai). Toad might use fireballs since Toads could throw fireballs in NSMBWii like Mario and Luigi does... but I think this is a little too repetitive (not that it stopped Sakurai when it came to Star Fox) and I think Toad could use iceballs instead since Mario and Luigi don't use them in Smash.

 

[PD4FR]

Actually my point on Paper Mario is he cannot be a clone because his model would be drastically different than Mario's.

Exactly, you basically summarized my move list I made earlier.

Star Bits can be used as projectiles if you pointed your Wii Remote at the TV screen and pressed the B button. So they are more than just collectibles that I think they would work just fine. Oh, and Kirby's Final Smash can cause Maxim Tomatoes to rain from the pot (granted it is not from the sky but it can still cause Maxim Tomatoes to rain).

As for Toad's kart ripping off Wario's bike... so what? R.O.B.'s side+B ripped off Pit's side+B. Charizard's B ripped off Bowser's B. Mario's down+B ripped off Squirtle's B. Luigi's side+B ripped off Pikachu's side+B. Ike's down+B ripped off Marth's down+B. Lucario's B ripped off Samus's B. Pokemon Trainer's down+B ripped off Zelda's down+B. Zelda's B ripped off Fox's down+B. At least my moveset ideas would not make Toad a clone nor a semi-clone of Wario nor anyone else.

Also, just because Toad(s) can do the same things Mario and Luigi can in SMB2 and NSMBWii doesn't mean Toad has to be a clone of Mario or Luigi. Mario already uses the Cape and Toad cannot use it because he was not in Super Mario World and never used the Cape. Luigi's side+B was made-up and I hope Toad does not get this made-up move (not that it will stop Sakurai). Toad might use fireballs since Toads could throw fireballs in NSMBWii like Mario and Luigi does... but I think this is a little too repetitive (not that it stopped Sakurai when it came to Star Fox) and I think Toad could use iceballs instead since Mario and Luigi don't use them in Smash.

You have some good points, but I still think he'd need at least a couple unique things, you know? What would they be? I get where you're coming from, though.

Edit - And when I say unique, I don't mean just "Hey, let's just take Mario's fireballs and make them freeze!11" No, that's not what I'm looking for. Not trying to make fun of your post, by the way.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sorry for sounding harsh, PD4FR, but that statement wasn't really very smart.

As for Toad copying other characters, yes, it does sound like it but at least he won't be a clone or a semi-clone of anyone. A lot of characters have similar moves and yet they are not clones, you know what I am saying? What I did was mix-and-match to see what I think fits Toad the best according to Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and the Mario Kart series (none of that Mario sports and Mario Party crap for Toad).

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, to be fair... Mr. Game & Watch really has a 3D model but Sakurai just flattened his model to make him appear 2D. Who's to say Sakurai would not make a 3D model of Paper Mario based on Mario's 3D model and flattened him to make him appear 2D?

 

[Starphoenix]

Well, to be fair... Mr. Game & Watch really has a 3D model but Sakurai just flattened his model to make him appear 2D. Who's to say Sakurai would not make a 3D model of Paper Mario based on Mario's 3D model and flattened him to make him appear 2D?

Because his physical shape is NOTHING like Mario's. For starters he is flat, I imagine his movement being like Game and Watche's except fluid and not choppy. Secondly he is shorter than Mario and a little tubbier. Thirdly there would be no way for him to do certain attacks because of his unique shape. Do you really believe he could pull off Mario's down air? Lastly he uses weapons far more frequently than Mario and his moveset should make use of his hammer.

 

[majora_787]

Because his physical shape is NOTHING like Mario's. For starters he is flat, I imagine his movement being like Game and Watche's except fluid and not choppy. Secondly he is shorter than Mario and a little tubbier. Thirdly there would be no way for him to do certain attacks because of his unique shape. Do you really believe he could pull off Mario's down air? Lastly he uses weapons far more frequently than Mario and his moveset should make use of his hammer.

I would see him being a partial clone to Game & Watch myself.

Now, before anyone else calls me stupid, ********, or ignorant today because of my opinions, I'm saying this UNDER THE HYPOTHETICAL BASIS THAT THE chARACTER IS PROGRAMMED WHEN LITTLE TIME IS LEFT. You know, the SOURCE OF ALL CLONES.

>_> I mean geeze. It's happened plenty already, it's not like anyone is immune to Clonemia...

I forgot about the starbits completely. >_< Oops. But yeah, some of the pairs you mentioned are stretching it. R.O.B. and pit, Fox and Zelda... Uhm... And some of them were directly intended to be the same. Bowser's and Charizard's B? Ike's and marth's down B?

But yeah, it works.

But still, it feels like Toad doesn't have...quite enough going for him. Unless you'd like a character that fights from a gokart, can use all standard mario powerups, and has DK's grab talent...

It just feels like that takes away from Toad. ._. To me. Besides that, assuming you could make Toad work, I personally feel there are more deserving characters. But if it came down to Waluigi or Toad, no Waluigi plox. >_<

 

[PD4FR]

Sorry for sounding harsh, PD4FR, but that statement wasn't really very smart.

As for Toad copying other characters, yes, it does sound like it but at least he won't be a clone or a semi-clone of anyone. A lot of characters have similar moves and yet they are not clones, you know what I am saying? What I did was mix-and-match to see what I think fits Toad the best according to Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and the Mario Kart series (none of that Mario sports and Mario Party crap for Toad).

It was smart in the way I intended it. When I said I didn't remember him being able to do much in SMB 2 and New SMB Wii, I meant he didn't really have all that many unique characteristics.
If they can make him unique, though, he has a good chance, actually. Like someone else said, he's pretty popular over in Japan, and that's what matters, because Smash is Japanese.

 

[ElPanandero]

I have a question to all of those that are following this topic.

Which Mario newcomer would you like to see in Smash 4 out of the following:
- Dr. Mario
- Paper Mario
- Toad
- Bowser Jr.

Choose only one.

Doctor Mario.

 

[Rychu]

You know what?
I think that there is a mario character deserving of a spot. Hes been in almost every mario title, and is pretty legendary in his own right.
Im talkin 'bout Hammer Bro.
Think what they could do with him, and hell, he even had a Brawl model as an assist trophy.

 

[Big-Cat]

Let me have a shot at a Toad moveset. One thing I liked that Arc had a while back was that Golden Mushroom move. When I saw this, I immediately saw of El Fuerte's mixup game. As such, I think I might do something like that. Before I start, I think Toad would work best as a small, quick character that has limited range, but has some good grappling moves.

B: Poison Mushroom
This is Toad's primary form of zoning/poking. Toad tosses one and the opponent is dealt with damage and a small amount of damage for the few seconds following. If the mushroom whiffs, it will just slide on the ground and bounce off of walls like normal mushrooms. Note, only one mushroom can be used at a time. Another one can't be used until the poison goes away or disappears from the stage. Naturally, the thrower is immune to the attack.

Down B: Mushroom Hop (Made up)
Jumps on the opponent and knocks them down in an untechable state. Perfect against projctile users.

Up B: Propeller Mushroom
Works basically like Snake's, but pressing Down on the control stick allows you to spin downward.

Side B - Golden Mushroom
This acts as a command dash for Toad. When this is first used, the move does damage in the form of force (anyone that's taken physics will understand this), but it will not do damange again until you activate later. Normally, dashing wouldn't be that big of a deal as every character can do it, but the Golden Mushroom move allows for a mixup game that can leave the opponent guessing.

• A: Stop
  Toad simply stops in place.
• Back tilt A: Backstep
  Stops and steps back a little bit.
• B: Bullet Bill
  Like the MK games, Toad turns into a Bullet Bill. If you hit with it, it does good forward knockback, but this move is unsafe on block.
• Side B: Golden Mushroom
  Doing Side B in the intended direction lets you turn around. As mentioned, you don't get the force bonus for this (because Toad's acceleration is now 0 - he's going at a constant speed).
• Down B: Blooper
  Slides in and, if not blocked, will climb on the enemy and hit them with a blooper's ink. When the ink is on, the opponent is temporarily blinded and is open for attack.
• Up B: Green Shell
  This move starts off with Toad jumping out of his dash. It's important to know that this jump and the regular jump look completely identical - until Toad reaches the peak of the jump. From there, Toad throws out a Koopa Shell downward. This makes for a great anti-air counter and a launcher followup.

As you can probably guess, a good Toad user would have to have pretty good execution and be good at mindgames and reading.

 

[ChronoBound]

Hey guys, if any of you support the cut Melee characters (particularly Roy, Dr. Mario, and Pichu), please vote in this poll.

Edit: Nevermind. I don't want to bother anyone here.

 

[Clownbot]

I don't have a GameFAQs account but of the cut characters I'd say the only one I remotely support for re-inclusion is Mewtwo. I also wouldn't mind if the Doc were brought back, I guess.

 

[Starphoenix]

No offense but why does it really matter?

 

[DekuBoy]

Toad is the best choice for Mario character IMO. He's far more known than a lot of SSB characters and has a huge backlist of games.

Also Mewtwo, with Roy a far second.

PS: Metroid Other M is great. What's wrong with critics?