[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Arcadenik]

Kuma, I think it would look a little odd to see Toad temporarily transform into a Bullet Bill. Wouldn't it make more sense if Toad could temporarily transform into a Bullet Bill while driving on his kart? I mean, that's what happens to kart drivers in the Mario Kart games when they use the Bullet Bill item.

I'm working on making Toad's kart move different from Wario's bike move. This is what I just came up with...

Pressing Side+B will make Toad pull out his racing kart and start driving on it. This part is the same as Wario's but that's it. No popping the wheelie.

Pressing Side+B again while driving will make Toad speed up temporarily with the Golden Mushroom. But once in a while, Toad will randomly transform into a Bullet Bill (this is very rare) and it is much more powerful than the Golden Mushroom. This move also allows Toad to make a quick U-turn and drive in the opposite direction if you press Side+B in the other direction. Don't try this if Toad is wearing the Bunny Hood.

Pressing only the B button while driving will let Toad release a flying Blooper behind him. The Blooper follows closely behind Toad and squirts ink all over the floor to make it slippery. Characters have harder time running on the inky floor as if they are running on ice floors and slipping becomes more frequent on these inky floors. Use it to troll tourney gamers like Diddy Kong already does with Banana Peels.

Pressing Up+B while driving will make Toad spin-jump with the kart using the Feather from the original Super Mario Kart. This spin-jump would hit the opponent multiple times similar to Wario's Up+B and Samus's Up+B. This should help Toad recover in case he drives off the stage.

How does Toad get off of his kart? Press Down+B and Toad will eject from his kart and the kart will keep on speeding until it crashes or falls off the stage. This should also help Toad recover in case he drives off the stage.

Oh, boy... this sounds very complicated, Kuma. Do you think these would give Toad some good mindgames?

Also, your Down+B idea about Mushroom Hop? I thought maybe Toad jumping on the opponent and then quickly picking them up (a la SMB2 and NSMBWii) might work better instead. The opponent would be disabled while Toad is carrying them.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ DekuBoy

I don't know what's wrong with Metroid: Other M. I haven't played it and I already spoiled the story to myself (its one thing to know the whole story, its another thing to experience the whole story). But from what I heard, the critics said the game was sexist because Samus (a woman) is being submissive to male authority figures (Adam) even though in the military, you are expected to follow your orders your superiors give you, regardless of your and their genders! Oh, and there's the whole "they changed it so now it sucks." Check out TVTropes if you want to find out what that means. But the only one thing the critics are right about is how stupid it is for Samus to be not be allowed to use her Varia Suit when she went to the lava area until Adam gives her permission to do so.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Arc
For the Bullet Bill, I was taking some liberties with the way the item works. Alternatively, Toad could pull a E. Honda, but I wanted the special followups to all be Mario Kart-inspired.

You already know my position on random outcomes for moves, especially if you have the possibility of a broken attack available.

I prefer a command dash over a Kart for a few reasons:

1. Aesthetically, there are more options and mind games from a dash over a kart. Believe me when I say that the stop command has several possible followups. I'm speaking from experience here. With a kart, it's easy to tell when they stop. A good example besides El Fuerte with this is Vega with his wall jumps.
2. A vehicle based attack has already been done with Wario. That's not to say it shouldn't be done again, but this doesn't seem enticing enough to do a second take on the concept.

As for the recovery move you're suggesting, I don't think it's necessary. Any decent Toad player would know better than to be near the edge if the conditions are possible. Not only that, but it's not the Toad player can just get off and recover with Up+B.

Your idea about the Mushroom Hop is alright, but I think you could apply the same thing to his regular throws like Donkey Kong. I intended for the attack to be mostly a projectile punisher and even a surprise attack that you could do following Stop. I was kind of thinking of the attack as something akin to Noel from BlazBlue's Muzzle Flitter.

As for Other M, I feel a lot of people simply aren't thinking things out with some of these things. A lot of people can't see to understand why Samus freaked out when she saw Ridley - He was on a planet that exploded and should've been dead for good. The Varia Suit thing, on the other hand, takes some thinking. The objective of the mission was to find any survivors and they had to do it quick considering that monsters were running about. Adam likely did not authorize the Varia Suit because he didn't want Samus to just wander around when time was of the essence.

 

[majora_787]

critics said the game was sexist because Samus (a woman) is being submissive to male authority figures (Adam) even though in the military

Wow. This is all the proof I need... Either NOBODY knows what sexist and racist mean anymore, or they actually mean something different.

Sheesh, that damages my hope for people. >_< It really does.

I'm getting Other M anyway, because it looks good, and people say it's good. Plus, my only Metroid experience was with the prime games. I have never played a side scroller, even though people say Super Metroid is pretty good. I dunno.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wow. This is all the proof I need... Either NOBODY knows what sexist and racist mean anymore, or they actually mean something different.

Sheesh, that damages my hope for people. >_< It really does.

I'm getting Other M anyway, because it looks good, and people say it's good. Plus, my only Metroid experience was with the prime games. I have never played a side scroller, even though people say Super Metroid is pretty good. I dunno.

You know what I find funny? Half the time when someone says something is sexist or racist, the people who you think would find that stuff offensive don't find anything offensive about it or just find it funny (depending on what subject is). I think people are just afraid of Unfortunate Implications.

I blame the journalists on this one, but Other M is NOT a side scroller.

 

[BirthNote]

I have a question to all of those that are following this topic.

Which Mario newcomer would you like to see in Smash 4 out of the following:
- Dr. Mario
- Paper Mario
- Toad
- Bowser Jr.

Choose only one.

Bowser Jr. The reason why, is because of who's already in the game from the Mario series. If he was in, we'd have 2 heroes and 2 villains fighting over Peach. One side wants to keep her safe, the other side wants to kidnap her. Symmetry.

In my opinion, Paper Mario could be more of a clone than Bowser Jr. The reason is this...

Bowser's moves are the moves of a heavyweight.

Bowser Jr. is Mario's weight at best. He won't be able to suplex someone, crash down on them, I don't THINK he can breathe fire... The only special he can probably do at all is the Whirling Fortress. And for the rest of the moves, mostly the same deal.

The following is not a hostile reply.
I have to point out some things about Bowser's 7th son: Jr. is MUCH bigger and heavier than Mario, and if you think otherwise then play the Super Mario Galaxy games. He's a large creature, and in the final level of the first game Peach is standing RIGHT BESIDE HIM in his airship. Her height reaches Junior's upper lip at best. And if you're not convinced, get as close as you can to his B-Day Machine's (Galaxy 2) cockpit and compare his size to Mario's. He's only similar to Mario's weight in the spinoff and NSMB games. Sunshine doesn't really count because that was his first game, and his size, weight and height has greatly increased in the SMG games (perhaps he's growing up). Bowser Jr. is very heavy for his weight class; he can be one of the heaviest middleweights and also be as stocky as Wario.

Also, because the father and his son are different weight classes, they can have entirely different moves, yet have somewhat similar specials. The only two that would be similar would be the fire breath and whirling fortress. Junior can shoot fireballs in NSMB Wii, and have a faster whirling fortress compared to his heavier dad. This reply isn't neccessarily directed at you Majora, because many seem to think that Bowser Jr. is a small turtle, like the one who made the following quote.

Bowser Jr. doesn't exactly stand out at all since he is basically Baby Bowser with a bandana (which is funny when you realize that the developers made Baby Bowser look like Bowser Jr. in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time) and he would just end up as a lightweight smaller clone of Bowser. Bowser Jr. usually fights inside a mech in almost every main game he appeared in. Seriously, with the exception of New Super Mario Bros. for the DS, you will notice that Bowser Jr. never engages in hand-to-hand combat with Mario outside of a mech. What the hell is Sakurai going to base his moveset on if Bowser Jr. never fights outside of a mech? Bowser himself, of course.

That "a lightweight smaller clone of Bowser" thing was just addressed. Yes, he does fight in a mech often, but the developers could make a moveset that involves his paintbrush, or give him abilities that would be perfect for his heavy middleweight size. He can do things that Bowser can't do. Just because he resembles his dad, he doesn't have to be a clone. Cloning is the easy way out.

 

[majora_787]

o_O I never noticed JOONYAH was that big, honestly. And I had been PLAYING Galaxy. >_< Bleh. And I NEVER knew he could shoot fireballs. My research fails.

And Other M isn't a platformer sidescroller whatevs? I thought that was its primary mode of gameplay with the option to do something similar to Metroid Prime's playstyle. I don't remember everything I read about it. xD

And I know this isn't the time or place, but is Super Metroid worth getting for the VC? Just figured I'd ask while it's on my mind.

But anyway, the deal with JOONYAH doesn't change my opinion. I feel he's the best suited to the spot out of the given options. As much as I'd love to see a Shy Guy, who are one of my top 5 favorite enemies in the history of the universe... xD But I know THAT won't happen.

 

[Rychu]

Sakurai(i beleive) said he could make Hammer Bro. work. just puttin that out there

 

[majora_787]

Sakurai(i beleive) said he could make Hammer Bro. work. just puttin that out there

Well, I know he said he could make RIDLEY work, and I know he made the Hammer Bro an AT...

But if the Hammer Bro got in and his final smash wasn't HB&F, I'd be disappointed. ._.

 

[Rychu]

you know who should be in smash? Duke Nukem.
Forever is finally coming out next year

 

[Vez]

Is another Mario character really needed? I mean, Toad and Bowser Jr. are cool and all, but I would much rather see them concentrate on franchises that are lacking in characters or just concentrate on adding new franchises altogether. The Mario series already has Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, and even DK if you include him. Isn't that enough? I don't really think Toad and especially Bowser Jr. would bring anything particularly unique to the Smash Bros. games either. Just because the Mario franchise is Nintendo's biggest franchise doesn't mean we have to add an extra character or two from the series into Smash. Most people don't even care about Toad anymore. His moment has past.

 

[Propeller Toad]

Originally Posted by ChronoBound
I have a question to all of those that are following this topic.

Which Mario newcomer would you like to see in Smash 4 out of the following:
- Dr. Mario
- Paper Mario
- Toad
- Bowser Jr.

Choose only one.

Easily Toad. I like Bowser Jr. don't get me wrong, but I feel that he doesn't really bring much (except for the frequently mentioned paintbrush which only survives within the spinoff games these days). Toad on the other hand deserves to be playable as he is pretty much the only main mario protagonist who is not playable in smash as of yet (the three main ones are already in). He would be unique considering that he is a humanoid mushroom (i'm sure Sakurai and Nintendo could think of some unique aspects for him- considering how both Luigi and Peach got made up moves to be playable). He also has decent moves that are left for him to be playable (Smb 2, Wario's woods and NSMB wii). Seeing that we have Mario, Luigi, and Peach in brawl it makes sense to add the next protagonist of the mario games after the Mario bros. (which are the Toads).

Is another Mario character really needed? I mean, Toad and Bowser Jr. are cool and all, but I would much rather see them concentrate on franchises that are lacking in characters or just concentrate on adding new franchises altogether. The Mario series already has Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, and even DK if you include him. Isn't that enough? I don't really think Toad and especially Bowser Jr. would bring anything particularly unique to the Smash Bros. games either. Just because the Mario franchise is Nintendo's biggest franchise doesn't mean we have to add an extra character or two from the series into Smash. Most people don't even care about Toad anymore. His moment has past.

Well technically the Mario series is only involving the main Mario four while the others are only in smash due to their roles in their own series (Wario, DK and Yoshi). Mario is also the biggest Nintendo franchise and as they didn't get any real newcomers (unless you count Wario) and even lost one during the move from melee (dr. mario) we should at least get one newcomer for the series and remember New Super Mario Bros. Wii was massive (did extremely well around the world especially Japan) so including stuff like a playable Toad would be like remembering the game as well as the past. And actually alot of people care for Toad as otherwise why would he be playable in NSMB Wii (fans suggested him) and the mario spinnoffs . That Mario All Stars remake for the wii would most likely include SMB 2 which would also help Toad as well. He also has a huge fan base in Japan as well (was actually number 8 on the ocrion poll in Japan of their favourite video game characters).

Anyways seeing how we lost Doc as well it wouldn't be that bad if we got both Toad and Bowser Jr. in the next SSB game (considering that they are the last important characters left in the Mario series).

 

[augustoflores]

...and as they didn't get any real newcomers (unless you count Wario) and even lost one during the move from melee (dr. mario) we should at least get one newcomer for the series and remember New Super Mario Bros.

don't try to justify it, man

anyways, anyone hear that megaman x ain't in mvc3? yet another crossover that he was out-shined by Zero.
Smash 4 is his last chance at crossing over, i hope he gets a shot. (well, maybe not last chance but still)

 

[Vez]

And actually alot of people care for Toad as otherwise why would he be playable in NSMB Wii (fans suggested him) and the mario spinnoffs .

I don't think that was due to fan demand (I don't personally remember much if any fans complaining about Toad not being playable in a major Mario title again), I think that was just because they didn't really have any other characters they could use (I guess they could have used Wario, but Wario would only do something if he gained something out of it).

He also has a huge fan base in Japan as well (was actually number 8 on the ocrion poll in Japan of their favourite video game characters).

True, but how long ago was that? Nobody really seems to consider Toad one of the major Mario characters anymore. He's basically been reduced to really minor roles in nearly every single game after Super Mario Bros. 2. He has basically become a generic character of no worth. Yes, I realise Yoshi fits the whole generic attribute as well, but he is much more popular than Toad and he is generally considered one of the major Mario characters either way (partly due to actually starring in his own games). Heck, even in the spin-off games Toad is considered minor. For example, in Mario Strikers Charged, Toad is one of the generic sidekicks you can get (which you can have up to three of, I think) and he is paired up with other generic characters such as the Hammer Bro. and the Koopa Troopa. Yoshi on the other hand is a captain. He is considered a single character.

Again, I do like Toad, but his time has passed.

 

[Arcadenik]

How about this new Toad moveset for a change?

B: Poison Mushroom
Toad pulls out a Poison Mushroom (the one from Super Mario All-Stars) and uses it to counter enemy attacks. When the opponent hits the mushroom, it explodes and sprays poisonous spores that hurt AND shrink the opponent. If the opponent has over 150% damage, there is a chance the mushroom might send the opponent flying far. Toad is vulnerable from behind since he cannot counter attack from the back with his mushroom right in front of him.

Side + B: Golden Mushroom
Toad pulls out a Golden Mushroom and uses it to temporarily boost his speed. If you tap the B button, Toad will quickly run past the opponent and the opponent will just trip. If you hold down the B button and then release the B button, Toad will charge with the mushroom and he will run towards an opponent and tackle them off the stage. This move will also make Toad glow golden and he will have golden afterimages behind him as he runs.

Up + B: Propeller Mushroom
Toad pulls out a Propeller Mushroom and uses it on himself. His clothes quickly flash into Propeller Toad's outfit and he will start to propel upward very high. While he is floating down, you can press Down + B to make Toad spin and fall faster. This drilling technique will let Toad attack the opponents multiple times from above. Once Toad lands on the ground, his Propeller outfit quickly flash back to his normal clothes. His clothes will also change back to normal if he was hit while propelling. This recovery move has good vertical range but poor horizontal range just like in the Wii game.

Down + B: Pick Up
Toad quickly jumps over an opponent, lands on them and picks them up. If done in mid-air, Toad will just ground pound straight down and quickly picks up the opponent if he manages to land on them. This can also be used as a mid-air grab move (a first for Smash!) but this move doesn't cause damage to the opponents. While Toad is carrying the opponent, Toad can use the opponent as a throwing projectile and throw them at other opponents in any direction (up, down, or straight ahead like Link does with bombs). Make sure you can pick up the opponent close to the ledge so you can quickly throw them off the stage before they struggle and break free from Toad's hands. Of course, if the opponent has over 150% damage, it is significantly harder for them to break loose.

Final Smash: Toad Kart
The Toad Kart appears in front of Toad and he jumps into it. Toad starts driving around and is invincible. Toad can run over the opponents. While he is driving on the kart, his specials have temporarily changed:

A: Toad drops Banana Peels behind the kart, even if all items except the Smash Ball item are turned off.
B: Toad throws Green Shells straight ahead of him, even if all items except the Smash Ball item are turned off.
Side + B: Toad's kart temporarily transforms into a Bullet Bill and it hits opponents harder than the kart normally would.
Up + B: Toad uses the Feather and spin-jumps very high. This is also used to attack opponents who might try to jump over his kart. The kart spins and hits the opponent multiple times.
Down + B: Toad summons a Blooper and it follows closely behind Toad's kart as it squirts ink on the ground to make it lose traction. The opponents have a harder time running around on the ink-stained ground.

When the Final Smash wears out, Toad just ejects himself from the kart and the kart just keeps on speeding until it crashes or falls off the stage. If the kart crashes with an opponent, that opponent will be sent flying far.

 

[PD4FR]

How about this new Toad moveset for a change?

B: Poison Mushroom
Toad pulls out a Poison Mushroom (the one from Super Mario All-Stars) and uses it to counter enemy attacks. When the opponent hits the mushroom, it explodes and sprays poisonous spores that hurt AND shrink the opponent. If the opponent has over 150% damage, there is a chance the mushroom might send the opponent flying far. Toad is vulnerable from behind since he cannot counter attack from the back with his mushroom right in front of him.

How much damage and how long would he be small? This sounds a little too good to me...It's like Marth's counter + shrinking powers.

Final Smash: Toad Kart
The Toad Kart appears in front of Toad and he jumps into it. Toad starts driving around and is invincible. Toad can run over the opponents. While he is driving on the kart, his specials have temporarily changed:

A: Toad drops Banana Peels behind the kart, even if all items except the Smash Ball item are turned off.
B: Toad throws Green Shells straight ahead of him, even if all items except the Smash Ball item are turned off.
Side + B: Toad's kart temporarily transforms into a Bullet Bill and it hits opponents harder than the kart normally would.
Up + B: Toad uses the Feather and spin-jumps very high. This is also used to attack opponents who might try to jump over his kart. The kart spins and hits the opponent multiple times.
Down + B: Toad summons a Blooper and it follows closely behind Toad's kart as it squirts ink on the ground to make it lose traction. The opponents have a harder time running around on the ink-stained ground.

When the Final Smash wears out, Toad just ejects himself from the kart and the kart just keeps on speeding until it crashes or falls off the stage. If the kart crashes with an opponent, that opponent will be sent flying far.

Very good idea, but it seems pretty complicated for a Final Smash...then again, this is SSB4 we're talking about!

 

[Arcadenik]

@ PD4FR

It is more like Peach's Toad plus the shrinking. But I think the damage should be the same as Peach's Toad move and the opponent would be small for the same length as the regular Poison Mushroom item's effect. I was going to suggest Lip's Stick's continuous poisoning but decided against it because I felt that some people might think that it is unfair and broken, especially when it is coupled with the shrinking effect.

Hey! At least Toad's Toad Kart Final Smash is nothing like Olimar's Final Smash (remember my other suggested Final Smash was Star Festival but I also liked it).

I don't think that was due to fan demand (I don't personally remember much if any fans complaining about Toad not being playable in a major Mario title again), I think that was just because they didn't really have any other characters they could use (I guess they could have used Wario, but Wario would only do something if he gained something out of it).

True, but how long ago was that? Nobody really seems to consider Toad one of the major Mario characters anymore. He's basically been reduced to really minor roles in nearly every single game after Super Mario Bros. 2. He has basically become a generic character of no worth. Yes, I realise Yoshi fits the whole generic attribute as well, but he is much more popular than Toad and he is generally considered one of the major Mario characters either way (partly due to actually starring in his own games). Heck, even in the spin-off games Toad is considered minor. For example, in Mario Strikers Charged, Toad is one of the generic sidekicks you can get (which you can have up to three of, I think) and he is paired up with other generic characters such as the Hammer Bro. and the Koopa Troopa. Yoshi on the other hand is a captain. He is considered a single character.

Again, I do like Toad, but his time has passed.

The first part: fans complained about having two playable Toads when they wanted only one Toad and a playable Peach to go with Mario and Luigi a la Super Mario Bros. 2. They also complained about the two playable Toads when they wanted a playable Wario and a playable Waluigi so we can have the whole "Mario Bros. vs. Wario Bros." rivalry but they keep forgetting that Nintendo won't make Waluigi part of the canon because Waluigi was created solely as Wario's partner in the sports spin-off games. The game is also about saving Peach for the umpeenth time so Peach is out, so who do we have left? Toad and add another Toad and we have four player action (I was kinda surprised they didn't make it Toad and Toadette or Toadsworth ) I think Blue Toad and Yellow Toad was to match with red Mario and green Luigi so we didn't get the red Toad.

The second part: The poll where Toad was reported to be one of the most popular video game characters in Japan... that was two years ago, not ten or twenty years ago!

About the sports spin-off games, they are inconsistent and are largely considered not canon. For example, Birdo is one of the captains in Mario Super Sluggers but is one of the sidekicks in the Mario Strikers games and she is not important in the main games. Petey Piranha is one of the captain in Mario Strikers Charged but is one of the sidekicks in the Mario Baseball games and he hasn't appeared in a main game since 2006's New Super Mario Bros. Also, just because Waluigi and Daisy are captains in the spin-offs don't mean they are important in the main games.

One more thing, New Super Mario Bros. Wii is one of the best-selling Wii titles... adding Toad as a playable character would make more fans happy than adding Bowser Jr. He is far more recognizable and better-known than most of the Mario characters who are frequently playable exclusively in Mario spin-off games (including Bowser Jr.). If Nintendo wanted to milk the Wii game for all it is worth, they would be smart to add a playable Toad and a stage based on that game. Why not? They already did that with Ocarina of Time when they milked it by putting in Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, and Young Link as playable characters in Melee and named the generic Palace from Zelda II "Temple".

 

[BirthNote]

How about this new Toad moveset for a change?

Down + B: Pick Up
Toad quickly jumps over an opponent, lands on them and picks them up. If done in mid-air, Toad will just ground pound straight down and quickly picks up the opponent if he manages to land on them. This can also be used as a mid-air grab move (a first for Smash!) but this move doesn't cause damage to the opponents. While Toad is carrying the opponent, Toad can use the opponent as a throwing projectile and throw them at other opponents in any direction (up, down, or straight ahead like Link does with bombs). Make sure you can pick up the opponent close to the ledge so you can quickly throw them off the stage before they struggle and break free from Toad's hands. Of course, if the opponent has over 150% damage, it is significantly harder for them to break loose.

Interesting, but to tell the truth I'm curious about how Toad can pick up opponets because of his arm length, especially when it comes to Bowser, DK or Ganondorf. Cool moveset though.

 

[Zap tackle]

Interesting, but to tell the truth I'm curious about how Toad can pick up opponets because of his arm length, especially when it comes to Bowser, DK or Ganondorf. Cool moveset though.

Well that is true but both SMB 2 and NSMB Wii managed to stretch out his arms so I guess the same thing can be applied here (Toad's throws would most likely be a part of his moveset if he made it). Like BirthNote, excellent moveset Arcadenik. It looks fun to use.

As a side note, out of the four mario characters I'm mostly expecting Toad to be the next Mario rep. He would be a fun and unique character if he was made right. Jr on the other hand is a bit too similar to Bowser. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to add him but he is the child of Bowser that resemble's the koopa king the most of when he was a child. He can also breathe fire (NSMB WII) and extend the spikes in his shell (like Bowser's whirling fortress in NSMB DS). He could become unique but really the only thing that I hear that is unique for him is the paintbrush (but either way he turns into shadow mario who is supposed to act the same way as Mario in SMS's plot).

 

[PD4FR]

Interesting, but to tell the truth I'm curious about how Toad can pick up opponets because of his arm length, especially when it comes to Bowser, DK or Ganondorf. Cool moveset though.

Toad is strong, don't underestimate him. He can grab them by their hair.

@ PD4FR

It is more like Peach's Toad plus the shrinking. But I think the damage should be the same as Peach's Toad move and the opponent would be small for the same length as the regular Poison Mushroom item's effect. I was going to suggest Lip's Stick's continuous poisoning but decided against it because I felt that some people might think that it is unfair and broken, especially when it is coupled with the shrinking effect.

Hey! At least Toad's Toad Kart Final Smash is nothing like Olimar's Final Smash (remember my other suggested Final Smash was Star Festival but I also liked it).

Lol, you remembered me saying that?
Maybe the Neutral B could shrink them some of the time, at random? I'm not sure about it happening every time, lol.

Edit -
@ Zap Tackle - I could actually see Bowser Jr.'s movesest being based off of the paint brush entirely. Down tilt would shoot out paint and slip enemies, etc.

 

[Arcadenik]

Interesting, but to tell the truth I'm curious about how Toad can pick up opponets because of his arm length, especially when it comes to Bowser, DK or Ganondorf. Cool moveset though.

LOL. It is possible for Toad to do that - play Super Mario Advance where everyone could pick up giant Shy Guys. Toad has superhuman strength as shown in Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario's Woods and it was mentioned in his Brawl trophy. He would just pick them up that easily, regardless of their size and weight. I think it would be hilarious to see Toad try lifting up the gigantic Ridley if they were both playable. Only in Smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ PD4FR

Well.... wellllllll... maaaaaaaybe it doesn't need the shrinking effects... the spores do enough damage as is. But then it would be similar to Peach's Toad move. And that's why I added the shrinking effect... to make it differ from Peach's Toad.

Poison spores or shrinking or both? If it is poison spores, does it counter like Peach's Toad move or does it counter by inflicting continuous poisoning similar to Lip's Stick's poison effect? I am kinda torn between them.

 

[Starphoenix]

Just for fun I'm posting my top ten Nintendo songs I'd like to see in the next Smash that more then likely won't be included. For a bonus I threw in a couple third party tracks.

Man Eating Forest - Sin and Punishment 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNTKokbqvJg
Proud Soldier - Advance Wars: Days of Ruin - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS5G2pGHDOw
Gnat Attack - Mario Paint - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyOPK7FmiJ8
Forest Interlude - Donkey Kong Country 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Mp8uMammw
Black Shadow - F-Zero GX - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiIQEpBXkh4
Club Leader Duel - Pokémon Trading Card Battle - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgMHWxN2U_w
Kraken of the Sea - Earthbound - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsIxG64q3O0
Heaven - Custom Robo Battle Arena - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0E6XGoRjAg
Proof of Island Courage - Startropics - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5mK2SV7Dws
Dancing Dragon Dungeon - LoZ: OoS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdOuwNQUMbQ

Space Trip Steps (Meteor Herd) - Sonic Adventure 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uroFcDcj5OM
Heart of Enker (Special Stage 1) - Megaman 10 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBWj8XJ5EQs
Great Battle in the Vast Sky - Dragon Quest VIII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VkVnwfLsiw

 

[PD4FR]

@ PD4FR

Well.... wellllllll... maaaaaaaybe it doesn't need the shrinking effects... the spores do enough damage as is. But then it would be similar to Peach's Toad move. And that's why I added the shrinking effect... to make it differ from Peach's Toad.

Poison spores or shrinking or both? If it is poison spores, does it counter like Peach's Toad move or does it counter by inflicting continuous poisoning similar to Lip's Stick's poison effect? I am kinda torn between them.

Hey, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying that if it shrinks, it should be random, not every time.

I vote for Toad's neutral B being similar to Peach's Neutral B; It should always inflict damage, and it should have a, well, let's say 50% chance of shrinking.

Edit -
@Star Phoenix - Kudos for putting Dancing Dragon Dungeon, Black Shadow, and Gnat attack in there.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh, yeah... that reminds me... wouldn't it be crazy if Watinga (the giant robot fly) from Mario Paint showed up in Smash as an Assist Trophy or as an Adventure Mode boss?

 

[Big-Cat]

Arc, what is it with you and putting on random outcomes for some moves? Just wondering.

 

[jobu114]

1. A friend told me it's gonna be super smash bros duel.
2. Better subspace emmisary.
3. Raichu.

 

[Arcadenik]

Arc, what is it with you and putting on random outcomes for some moves? Just wondering.

Oh, that? Well, I figured that since Peach's vegetables deal random damages and Mr. Game & Watch's Judge causes random effects, I thought that it is probably okay for Toad to have a move with random effects. But the new moveset I posted on the top of this page doesn't have any random effects, at least I don't think it does...

 

[Starphoenix]

Oh, yeah... that reminds me... wouldn't it be crazy if Watinga (the giant robot fly) from Mario Paint showed up in Smash as an Assist Trophy or as an Adventure Mode boss?

You kidding me? He needs to be a boss! He could fly around and shoot energy pellets, SCHMUP style. Oh, and with this music to boot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5YaGiJso-E

 

[majora_787]

Thanks for Gage's theme, SP. =P That was a nice random addition to my day. I think it'd be cool to hear that in Smash Bros... especially on the Fire Emblem stage. Or, a fire emblem stage.

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh, that? Well, I figured that since Peach's vegetables deal random damages and Mr. Game & Watch's Judge causes random effects, I thought that it is probably okay for Toad to have a move with random effects. But the new moveset I posted on the top of this page doesn't have any random effects, at least I don't think it does...

I've never liked that random element put into those and other moves. It's really just fake balancing and it takes away control from the player. Not only that, but there is no reason to not pick the more powerful variations over the weaker ones (whereas you could have weak but quick and strong but slow). Besides, the first SSB didn't have random elements in its entire game and we still like it.

Anyway, you have the probability thing in the Poison Mushroom. Also, your Final Smash is broken. Later, I might come up with a more balanced and suitable Final Smash and then we could have a vote on which people like more.

Now that I think about it, what is with Nintendo and putting in broken as sin stuff in their multiplayer games. Yes, I know some of these weren't meant for tournament play and whatever, but it's no fun if two people are just going to pick the best option no matter what. Sure, we also to worry about beginner players, but I consider this to be counter-productive.

Then there's Mario Kart. I would really love it if they took a page or two from my favorite kart racer; you may even remember it: Snowboard Kids. In that game, doing a jump+Down-C allowed you to deflect every attack item but bombs, but you could jump over them. In general, it was much easier to maintain your placing. There was none of the Blue Shell monkey business.

 

[Starphoenix]

That blue shell is an awful item, whoever came up with the idea to implement that item needs to be reprimanded. I hate getting it and hate being at the receiving end of it. What benefit does it bring to you if your in 8th place? Nothing! It's only purpose is to make the player in the lead miserable. No way to dodge it or to block. All I'm going to say is it better not rear its ugly mug in MK3DS or no sale. HEAR THAT NINTENDO? NO SALE!

I feel better now.

To keep it on topic no blue shells for SSB4.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

I still by my movest. Though the "Giant Mushroom" thing I put sounds stupid... I think I like Arc's idea with the Down Special. And I also like the idea of having items when in the kart. =P

B: Mushroom
Toad throws a Mushroom at the foe, the mushrooms are at random, so each one will do something else.

Mushroom - Normal damage (5%) (Commom)
Poison Mushroom - Plants a flower on your head for additional damage (5% +flower) (Commom)
Life Mushroom - Stuns (5%) (Commom)
Bee Mushroom - Makes foe use there B Up move. (6%) (Commom)
Boo Mushroom - Heals Toad by 5% and gives the foe 5% damage. (Uncommom)
Spring Mushroom - Hurls foe in the air (10%) (Uncommom)
Reverse Mushroom - Reverses controls (8%) (Uncommom)
Volt Shroom - Stuns them if there on the ground (8-10%) (Uncommom)
King Mushroom - Does a HUGE amount of damage (30%) (Rare)
1-Up Mushroom - OHKO's foe (300%) (Rare)

Side B: Starman
Star. We all know Toad is famous for giving stars to players on Mario Party, right? Well, this time it's different. He hurls the stars at you for a nice thick amount of damage. It doesn't give invinciblity, just damage. You can charge it to make it go further.

Up B: Toad Kart 64
Kart 64. Remember the kart from the old N64 days? Well, when hurled, Toad jumps into his car and screams "YAHOO" and Toad can cruise around nice and fast. It also can bounce if you press A AND shoot shells, bananas, and other other crazy items. His car doesn't break like Wario's, but if your hit, you get kicked out of your car. While kicked out, anyone of your enemies can ride the car, YES anyone can drive the car.

Down B: Giant Mushroom
Remember those giant mushrooms from Mushroom Gorge? Well Toad plants one and it sprouts up. Anyone caught in the sprout recives damage and gets shot up (kinda like Dr. Wright) After it's done sprouting, anyone can bounce off of it freely.

Final Smash: Starshroom
Starshroom. Toad and the Brigade bring out some starshrooms and starts shooting people. The rest of the starshrooms you can't control, but you can control the one Toad's in. You may shoot, slam, float around, and much more while on the starshroom. However, it only lasts like 10 seconds, so be sure to do as much damage as possible[/QUOTE]

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Uh, i'll post my idea with the items later, I just want your guys opinion on this. ;D

 

[Starphoenix]

I wonder where Koops has been at lately? I wanted to revive our Slime and Chocobo idea. For now I'll just post a music list and get some input on it. Since every stage had a maximum of 12 songs connected to each stage I did the same. 6 Dragon Quest and 6 Final Fantasy. I'm not really brushed up on my FF songs so I chose what I knew are popular for the most part. Koops and I came up with the idea of the stage being a plain with a standard RPG type design representing both games. Trees, river, maybe in the background a large tower and/or bridge, cycling day and night system, and all that good stuff.

Endless World - DQII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i80XflvzCec
Fighting Spirit~Gruelling Fight - DQIII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Jp0-8M78o
Violent Enemies~Almighty Boss Devil is Challenged - DQV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb--ibjz688
Through the Fields~Wandering through the Silence - DQVI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlNfLa5QygM
World of the Strong - DQVII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlhuRbTu7pM
Great Battle in the Vast Sky - DQVIII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VkVnwfLsiw

Final Battle - FFIII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bsUctJ_iKQ
Boss Theme - FFIV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKuS5I24Mhw
Clash on the Big Bridge - FFV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtdQl6WuFeI
Dancing Mad - FFVI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKACjMez7yQ
One-Winged Angel - FFVII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7wJ8pE2qKU
Salikawood - FFXII - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTSbjAi6OcY

 

[DekuBoy]

That blue shell is an awful item, whoever came up with the idea to implement that item needs to be reprimanded. I hate getting it and hate being at the receiving end of it. What benefit does it bring to you if your in 8th place? Nothing! It's only purpose is to make the player in the lead miserable. No way to dodge it or to block. All I'm going to say is it better not rear its ugly mug in MK3DS or no sale. HEAR THAT NINTENDO? NO SALE!

I feel better now.

To keep it on topic no blue shells for SSB4.

But in multiplayer it becomes the ultimate pisser-offer. I LOVE it.

 

[BrandonMcMillan]

If I may set here my idea's about the new characters?
My little sister has some idea's about new characters, she wants all old characters from melee back,
and wants the following pokemon in: (She's 7 years old) Riolu, (Playable) Rayquaza, Golbat and (Playable) Mew.
I thought playable Mii's should be fun. Also I hope Sonic and Snake stays at SSB4.

 

[Big-Cat]

But in multiplayer it becomes the ultimate pisser-offer. I LOVE it.

And if you're on the receiving end?

I'm still not sure what to come up with for Toad's FS, but I'm hoping we can have competition for the best moveset.

By the way, SuperMetroid, what kind of playstyle is your Toad supposed to have because it just seems like you just put a bunch of stuff together. Oh, and I was the one that originally came up with that command grab Arc is now using.

 

[Big-Cat]

B: Poison Mushroom
This is Toad's primary form of zoning/poking. Toad tosses one and the opponent is dealt with damage and a small amount of damage for the few seconds following. There is also a brief period of hitstun so Toad can get in. If the mushroom whiffs, it will just slide on the ground and bounce off of walls like normal mushrooms. Note, only one mushroom can be used at a time. Another one can't be used until the poison goes away or disappears from the stage. Naturally, the thrower is immune to the attack.

Down B: Mushroom Hop (Made up)
Jumps on the opponent and knocks them down in an untechable state. Perfect against projectile users, and cannot be shield blocked. This can be performed in the air, but the result is different. If the attack is landed in the air, the opponent is kicked downward. This can also double as a method of horizontal recovery.

Up B: Propeller Mushroom
Toad launches upward quickly. After the peak is reached, Toad spins around just like in NSMB Wii and descends slowly making this good for horizontal recovery. You can also press Down B to spin down like a drill.

Side B - Golden Mushroom
This acts as a command dash for Toad. When this is first used, the move does damage in the form of force (anyone that's taken physics will understand this), but it will not do damange again until you activate later. While Toad is running, Toad has a yellowish glow and has after images.

Normally, dashing wouldn't be that big of a deal as every character can do it, but the Golden Mushroom move allows for a mixup game that can leave the opponent guessing.

• A: Stop
  Toad simply stops in place.
• Down A: Backstep
  Stops and steps back a little bit.
• B: Bullet Bill
  Like the MK games, Toad turns into a Bullet Bill. If you hit with it, it does good forward knockback, but this move is unsafe on block.
• Side B: Golden Mushroom
  Doing Side B in the intended direction lets you turn around. As mentioned, you don't get the force bonus for this (because Toad's acceleration is now 0 - he's going at a constant speed).
• Down B: Blooper
  Slides in and, if not blocked, will climb on the enemy and hit them with a blooper's ink. When the ink is on, the opponent is temporarily blinded and is open for attack.
• Up B: Green Shell
  This move starts off with Toad jumping out of his dash. It's important to know that this jump and the regular jump look completely identical - until Toad reaches the peak of the jump. From there, Toad throws out a Koopa Shell downward. This makes for a great anti-air counter and a launcher followup. Unlike the regular shell, this one disappears on contact.

Final Smash: Starbit Shower
Performable both in the air and on the ground, Toad throws a flurry of Starbits. Each throw is pretty quick, but it can be dodged. What dodge you use depends on the conditions (so this one is a bit more technical when it comes to defending against). The air version has Toad throwing them basically like this.
It's important to note that you can change your aiming direction prior to the first throw, but it can not be changed one set. The ground version is just Toad throwing them in an arch (basic projectile motion). This Final Smash is best to use as an edge guarding attack.

Play Style: Because Toad has some of the shortest limbs in the game, Toad has extremely poor range, and this requires that Toad has to get in in order to do damage. His Posion Mushroom is his counter against zoning characters. The Propeller Mushroom is Toad's vertical recovery which is vital as Toad has a rather poor second jump. Mushroom Hop is another counter against zoners. Golden Mushroom is his style defining move as Toad has to mix up his game while playing in order to keep the opponent guessing while he dishes out damage. His preferred method of KO-ing is anything but upward, but he shines on horizontal KO-ing.

Stats wise, Toad has a poor double jump, but the first jump (somewhat based off of SMB2's Power Squat Jump) is actually pretty decent, but his short hop is, well, short. His attack strength isn't overly high because of his size. Note that this is not taking into account Toad's lifting strength. His regular run is not as fast as his Golden Mushroom dash. He is a lightweight character.

 

[DekuBoy]

And if you're on the receiving end?

I'm still not sure what to come up with for Toad's FS, but I'm hoping we can have competition for the best moveset.

By the way, SuperMetroid, what kind of playstyle is your Toad supposed to have because it just seems like you just put a bunch of stuff together. Oh, and I was the one that originally came up with that command grab Arc is now using.

You're assuming I'm good at Mario Kart. Nah, but seriously I like the Blue Shell.