[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Smash0holic]

Admitedly, NES mario & luigi woul be cool as hell. Also, dont forget to vote on the roster!

I think so too.Lucky for us,NES Mario and NES Luigi are gonna be downloadable characters once Super Smash Flash 2 comes out.

 

[nube]

 

[Arcadenik]

To be fair, the last time everyone else discussed those two they admitted to liking them solely because of female/villain status. I can't assume that you're completely impartial considering you still support them for presumptuous or equally shallow reasons.

Pretty sure I explained this to you before so I might just go look for my old posts after I make dinner. While I'm gone, consider this: did you think Doc Louis/any PO character would be good candidates before last May on the grounds that "they will soon be popular" just like Palutena/Medusa?

What makes this noteworthy? What makes them especially marketable compared to any other given character?

I like how you'll wait for Ridley but you've already made up your mind on Palutena and Medusa.

#1 - Okay, so we have two shallow reasons for supporting characters. One, supporting characters because they are important to the franchise's mythos and are major recurring characters. And two, supporting characters because of their gender and morality. I would think that the first one is the least shallow reason compared to the second one. I thought you would have at least agreed on that one.

#2 - About the Punch-Out!! characters, I never considered any of the boxers to be good candidates for SSB4 besides Little Mac before last May. We don't have a Punch-Out!! character in Smash yet. Why would we get Doc Louis, King Hippo, Super Macho Man, Bald Bull, or Mr. Sandman if we don't even have the main protagonist / mascot of the franchise yet?

I mean, think about it for a bit... the mascot or the main protagonist of a franchise usually gets in before the supporting cast of said franchise. I think it would make better sense for Pit to be added first before we start adding Palutena and Medusa in the same way it would make more sense to add Little Mac first before we start thinking about adding any of the boxers and it gets pretty ugly from there - who are the second-most important character of that series? Personally, I think Doc Louis would be the second-most important since he is Little Mac's mentor / coach (and we even had a WiiWare title starring Doc Louis, meaning he is marketable) and followed by Mr. Sandman since he is the champion. I personally would love for King Hippo to appear as an Assist Trophy or better yet, as a boss in Adventure Mode (he is pretty marketable, we even got his crown and a pair of boxer shorts!)

Anyway, Palutena and Medusa make sense now, especially now that we already have Pit in Smash and the Kid Icarus series is finally getting a new game for the 3DS. After we add Palutena and Medusa, the Kid Icarus series is finished. It is complete just like the Kirby series is with Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede... unless they decide to bring back Orcos from Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters.

#3 - I think Palutena and Medusa could be very marketable after Kid Icarus: Uprising comes out. Kid Icarus finally getting a sequel after almost 20 years is a big deal to fans of the original Kid Icarus games. I would think that these fans, including myself, would love to see Kid Icarus get more love in Smash. I think Sakurai knows this... why would he have Pit apologize to us fans for keeping us waiting? Because he knows that the fans have always wanted a new Kid Icarus game for almost 20 years. These two goddesses come with the package.

#4 - I already made up my mind on Palutena and Medusa not only because I am a fan of the original Kid Icarus games but because I really believe that Sakurai would be more inclined to add Palutena and Medusa in Smash since he is working on Kid Icarus: Uprising. That, and they are not too big. I am not doing the same for Ridley because he is consistently too big (unlike Bowser since he has had many plausible explanations for his consistently fluctuating size changes in the games). I honestly cannot see how they would pull this off - the whole shrinking Ridley and keeping him ferocious at the same time... that, and all these disjointed hitboxes his skeletal body frame and wings / tail could have...

 

[majora_787]

I am not doing the same for Ridley because he is consistently too big (unlike Bowser since he has had many plausible explanations for his consistently fluctuating size changes in the games). I honestly cannot see how they would pull this off - the whole shrinking Ridley and keeping him ferocious at the same time... that, and all these disjointed hitboxes his skeletal body frame and wings / tail could have...

He was a great size to begin with. He was shrunk VERY well for the melee opening. He appears to be getting somewhere closer to a smash-shape for his own appearances.

Besides, Ridley doesn't need size to be ferocious. You just want to lie to yourself and not accept the fact that SIZE doesn't have anything to do with smash and never HAS. The fact of the matter is, Ridley is Samus' big bad antagonist, and Metroid deserves a REAL rep to be added. Not just Samus without a suit.

I can see perfectly fine how they could pull it off: Make Ridley Bowser's size, maybe a little bigger if they want to. Nobody said Bowser had to be the largest forever.

He's got the background. He's got the potential. He's got the position. He's got the series. All they have to do is make him in a way where he is a good size compared to everyone. Like they do for everyone else.

Anyway, on the Palutena & Medusa deal, I think one or the other could get in now since Uprising is being put out on the market. But the thing is, I would rather see Medusa because Smash is really short on villains. Just saying.

ooxxo
xoxxo
xxxox
xoxox
xxxxx

Those are the problem spots on your roster segment. The X's are the problems, not the O's. Just sayin.

 

[Zach.]

i cant see any pages after 2268

 

[Shorts]

Hey guys, got back from a Lady Gaga concert up in portland, i about died of fanboy heart attacks the whole time though. Anyways!

WTF is going on with the boards? I leave for a week and have no clue what you guys are talking about. Someone update me?

 

[Pieman0920]

@Pie/Kuma/Arc: NoA live action commercial =/= in-game model

did you guys forget the E3 09 trailer?

Well actually, the E3 09 trailer would be the less reliable at this point given how that was much earlier in production. Even so, the E3 version of Ridley is pretty much the same design as the commercial one. The only major difference here is that Ridley in the initial trailer was much larger than he is in the trailer where he is much closer to human height. (Of course given how this is Ridley pre-enhancement of any sort, that might be the explanation)

In any case about the whole size thing....honestly it means nothing for Smash...how many times do we have to go over this? Olimar is the size of a quarter, Kirby is 8 inches tall, and Bowser is consistently over twice Mario's height at his shortest in the main games. If that doesn't do it for you, and you have to insist that since they are from different universes of whatever, then may I remind you of Pokemon which also doesn't seem to care about height, given the size of Pikachu (1'04) compared to Mewtwo (6'07) back in Melee.

 

[Senjen]

can i still vote for more characters i wish to see in the next smash?

i was going to vote for Jeff and Paula from earthbound series common we need a character from earthbound like Jeff who doesn't use use Psi powers just to show even people without psi powers can kick butt! As for Paula we need more female reps and she was crucial in earthbounds plot you can't even defeat Gigyas without her.

also from mother 3 (name of earthbound series in japan) i would suggest Flint because he's a cowboy that uses a 2x4 as his main weapon and also has no Psi reread Jeff statement, and Kumatora Wich is a Tomboy Princess who uses psi as well and can kick butt as well if it wasn't for kumatora you wouldn't of got into club Titiboo and see if the Guitar player Lucky was Duster or not

just wondering who's more popular from mother 3 Flint or Duster?

also from zelda skull kid with majora's mask final smash summoning the moon!

and mask link his down b would be like Pokemon trainers he would first be deku link, then goron link, and zora link. But where is Fierce Deity Link? that would be his final smash transformation.

 

[Ct.O.B.]

can i still vote for more characters i wish to see in the next smash?

i was going to vote for Jeff and Paula from earthbound series common we need a character from earthbound like Jeff who doesn't use use Psi powers just to show even people without psi powers can kick butt! As for Paula we need more female reps and she was crucial in earthbounds plot you can't even defeat Gigyas without her.

also from mother 3 (name of earthbound series in japan) i would suggest Flint because he's a cowboy that uses a 2x4 as his main weapon and also has no Psi reread Jeff statement, and Kumatora Wich is a Tomboy Princess who uses psi as well and can kick butt as well if it wasn't for kumatora you wouldn't of got into club Titiboo and see if the Guitar player Lucky was Duster or not

just wondering who's more popular from mother 3 Flint or Duster?

also from zelda skull kid with majora's mask final smash summoning the moon!

and mask link his down b would be like Pokemon trainers he would first be deku link, then goron link, and zora link. But where is Fierce Deity Link? that would be his final smash transformation.

Let's leave Mother and Earthbound to the side at the moment, shall we? They already have two representatives (the term being used loosely) whose moves aren't even theirs for the most part. As far as that series goes, that in itself is enogh of a victory.

But I do agree with you on the Mask Link and Skull Kid ideas. I also thought of a less cloney Final Smash for Toon Link- Four Sword Cyclone. The camera would focus on Toon Link, he'd draw the four sword from a pedestal, then he'd glow and 3 clones of him would appear (they'd all be the same color as him, for the sake of simplicity) then they spin around the stage capturing their opponents. After 12 seconds or so, the pedestal would reappear at Toon Link's feet, he'd place the sword in, it'd be covered in a layer of crystal, then shatter, and the clones would disappear. Then Toon Link would pull out his regular sword and continue regular battle.

 

[majora_787]

Since Donkey Kong and Metroid are getting new games, I wouldn't be surprised if we actually got K Rool and Ridley in the next game.

Especially considering he's gotten some real roids and looks pretty humanoid now. =P Seriously, I'm LIKING the heavyweight look they gave him though. He looks even more intimidating.

Jokes aside. I think F-Zero, Earthbound, Kirby, and StarFox have enough representation.

F-Zero and StarFox appear to be a little dead at the moment-- Maybe forever, maybe not. And yes, I know StarFox is getting a port to the 3DS, but I don't count that. If I counted ports, I'd say we already have SSB4.

Kirby doesn't really need more, StarFox doesn't really need more, Earthbound does not need as many characters as it has GAMES... I mean really, what. We have the protagonists for all of the mother games already, and Giygas isn't...... Uhh... physically possible. So, unless they add like, the villain of M3, then I doubt we'll get more.

Mario is good to go, unless they decide to throw in Bowser Jr. or something. If that happens, odds are Pokemon and LoZ will get another slot too.

Has Yoshi even had a new game recently? And I don't mean Galaxy 2. Like, a Yoshi's Island game or whatevs.

Fire Emblem could bring back Roy and then we'd be good... Unless they want to toss Ashnard or the Black Knight or SOMETHING in there from the newer games... I know nothing of new Fire Emblem. =P

G&W, Gyromite, Ice Climber... were made with one rep in mind...

Kid Icarus I bet will get one rep, either Palutena or Medusa. I hope for Medusa, smash should have more villains.

Did I cover all of the series? Uhm... Mario, StarFox, Kirby, Yoshi's Island, Metroid, F-Zero, Pokemon, Earthbound, Donkey Kong, LoZ, Fire Emblem, Ice Climber, G&W, Gyromite...

WarioWare, I got nothing. I know nothing about the series...

For Metal Gear and Sonic, I think we'll keep our current two, but not get any newcomers in the series. However, we may or may not get another 3rd party.

So if it's a case of tl;dr, basically, DK, Metroid, Yoshi,Kid Icarus, and Fire Emblem are the only series that COULD have room left possibly in their part of the roster. The others are either dead, or not intended to have more than one rep.

Speaking of Galaxy 2, I started playing it. It's fun. =P Yay lack of spoilers from the internet!

EDIT: I had made a moveset for Twilight Princess skullkid, I remember. It was for MYM, I dunno where the forum or the moveset are now. I will link it when I find it some time.

 

[Rychu]

Day 4:

Okay, so we've decided that we want all original starters, right? So, I'll organize it like this:

Returning From(so far):
SSB64:Mario, DK, Link, Kirby, Samus, Yoshi, Fox, Pikachu
SSBMno character decided yet)
SSBB(no character decided yet)
SSB4 Newcomers(vot has not started)

This means we have 39 spots to fill.

Scrapped charactersnon decided yet)

And our character of the day. You may vote to either Keep him in, or let him go.
Lucas

Pros:
*Representitive of an under represented series
*Was supposed to replace Ness in SSBM
*Played a large part in SSE, so Sakurai may favor him

Cons:
*Is a Semi-Clone of Ness
*Is overall an "average" character
*Overall is not a very strong or fast character, and has extremely poor recovery options, making him easy to K.O.


Cast your votes, and remember to nominate 3 SMASH VETRENS you'd like to see return.

 

[ElPanandero]

@getto
Boot lucas (purley out of lack of interest in Mother), bring back Roy, Young Link, Ganondorf

@arcade
I may be alone here, but I support you on your current ridley stance. While size may not matter, Ridley`s frame is just so disjointed. and a big light character sounds silly (then again whenever I mention stats Pie jumps down my throat).

As for the medusa/platenua thing. I think if the game doesnt throw any curveball characters at us, and one of them has smashability, and remains crucial to the story, then they may get a spot.

 

[Big-Cat]

Keep him.

Lucas is really only a semi-clone because of his specials. Give him different ones and he's good to go. He's really only "average" because the balance in this game sucks. That last one can be fixed up by tweaking some properties. That's just stuff to buff up really.

Peach, Toon Link, Sheik

 

[Ct.O.B.]

Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus and Kirby are all making comebacks in the next year or so.
F-Zero and Ice Climbers, sad to say, are at the end of the line, F-Zero actually HAD a Finale game, while Ice Climbers will likely never evolve beyond what it was in 1987. Whether or not they'll continue to represent what's left of their franchises, we'll have to find out.
Game&Watch is obviously a classic, though it was discontinued, the huge number of games that were made from it make for a lot of opportunity as far as SSB4 goes.
Yoshi is completely up in the air. He seems to have become less his own franchise than he was 5 years ago, and it's safe to say that if another rep isn't added, he'll be joining the Mario franchise in SSB4.
Pokemon, Mario Bros, Legend of Zelda, and Metroid will have undoubted representation, possibly a newcomer from each franchise.

 

[majora_787]

@arcade
I may be alone here, but I support you on your current ridley stance. While size may not matter, Ridley`s frame is just so disjointed. and a big light character sounds silly (then again whenever I mention stats Pie jumps down my throat).

Just two things...

1. So?

2. So does a lightweight with extreme recovery, aerial movement, attack speed, and priority. Actually, so does a heavyweight with strong projectiles AND strong melee. Ridley can just be special, being a light-heavy like Ike. I see no issue with that.

Also, I vote to boot Muca-- I mean, Lucas. :3 Nominating Mewtwo, Marth, and Bowser. For teh lulz.

EDIT: We knew about all of them, but unless StarFox gets a new game and not just a port, it doesn't count. Much.

Also, Ice Climbers certainly died. But what do you mean by finale game?

I agree on the yoshi comment. The lil guy isn't really in his own subseries anymore like he used to be. He still gets put with Mario more than his own games by the sound of it.

Metroid had BETTER. I swear, I know people say this about F-Zero, but lemme say this for a live series: It's underrepresented. It REALLY is. We have Samus, and we have Samus. That's not... No. Besides, I feel Metroid deserves a 3rd rep either way.

I loved the representation of Metroid Prime 1 and 2 though. Frigate Orpheon and the Dark Suit~ <3 Sweetness incarnate right there.

But StarFox, even if it gets a new game, I don't think it's big enough to merit a fourth character. Unless they do a spread-rep like they did in Melee... As in all the big series get reps.

 

[PurpleTop]

SSB4 will need moar zombies!

no but seriously... I think SSB4 should have tails as a character, waluigi, Another pokemon... maybe a bird one or a ice pokemon. that wouldd be cool.

 

[ElPanandero]

@majora
I`m kust saying I don`t see a reason to have a character who is a large walking hitbox, who would probably be excessively light with projectiles and disjointed melee attacks with huge range. Doesn`t sound right to me. Oh and congrats on recognizing that metaknight is broken.

 

[Jaklub]

SSB4 will need moar zombies!

no but seriously... I think SSB4 should have tails as a character, waluigi, Another pokemon... maybe a bird one or a ice pokemon. that wouldd be cool.

You've said exactly I want in SSB4. Yay.

About voting, keep Lucas. I've already told 3 veterans, so yeah.

 

[majora_787]

@majora
I`m kust saying I don`t see a reason to have a character who is a large walking hitbox, who would probably be excessively light with projectiles and disjointed melee attacks with huge range. Doesn`t sound right to me. Oh and congrats on recognizing that metaknight is broken.

But here's the issue. I doubt he would be excessively light, he's skinny, but he's still heavy.

And unless he's Meta Ridley, who is now outdated, he'd have one projectile.

ALSO, he could work perfectly fine. Sakurai said himself, they could make him work. And the way he looks now, I doubt it'd be an issue.

And huge range? Since the newest version of Ridley will be Other M, he won't really have a huge tail. His wings can be folded up, they don't have to be out for everything. And also, usually when attack DOES have long range, it is made weak and has low priority. Which could easily happen with Ridley, his wings are wings after all.

 

[Arcadenik]

I found this image at Kitty Corp Meow Mix's Brawl Vault. This is what Peach's neutral B move should have been in Brawl and should be like in SSB4.

I still want to play as Toad in SSB4.

 

[Ignaxio]

I'm sure Sakurai said around Brawl's Japanese release that he did not want to create a 4th game, which does make me doubtful of a 4th game happening. Although if he and his team do not want to create it, I'm sure Nintendo will find another team to make it.

If it does happen, I really want to see a character from Mario RPG in it!

Geno + Mallow ftw!

 

[ElPanandero]

Alright well I thought ridley had more projectiles. And if he wasn`t light Ild think that even odder. this paper thin skeleton taking through hits like a champ? As for the range, I suppose if they do use this "roid" ridley, it may offer a solution, but I havent seen him, nor have any of us seen his definitive in-game appearance, so I don`t have much opinion on that.

 

[majora_787]

Alright well I thought ridley had more projectiles. And if he wasn`t light Ild think that even odder. this paper thin skeleton taking through hits like a champ? As for the range, I suppose if they do use this "roid" ridley, it may offer a solution, but I havent seen him, nor have any of us seen his definitive in-game appearance, so I don`t have much opinion on that.

I somehow doubt we'll have the roid ridley in that live-action deal, and then have a hot pink three-foot lizard in the game. <__< I'd say he'd at least look similar.

But yeah, Meta Ridley had more projectiles. Regular Ridley just has fireballs. Meta Ridley is outdated now, I'm sure. But this new one is just as appealing to me. :3

And to Ignaxio: Smash is something that the fans want more of. Not only do they want more of it, Nintendo could make PLENTY more money off of it. That put together, there will be a SSB4, Sakurai or no.

 

[*Z*]

Keep Lucas in. Give him different moves, and a new Final Smash. That's about it...

 

[Senjen]

yeah keep Lucas and change his moveset and have his final smash be PK Love which is his main super move in mother 3 instead of pk starstorm

 

[NeverFiniteX]

Boy you guys are still talking about the same stuff. Maybe its just the random posters.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, look who's here? How ya been?

 

[ElPanandero]

@iMajora
I thought roid ridley was the other M ridley

 

[SuperMetroid44]

I found this image at Kitty Corp Meow Mix's Brawl Vault. This is what Peach's neutral B move should have been in Brawl and should be like in SSB4.

I still want to play as Toad in SSB4.

TOAD FOR SSB4!

No seriously, Toad is the most deserving Mario character to be in it. =P

 

[majora_787]

@iMajora
I thought roid ridley was the other M ridley

It is, but I figure it would at least look similar. <_< I highly doubt they would design a 100% different Ridley just for a commercial.

 

[Ct.O.B.]

It's safe to say that the only newcomers allowed into SSB4 should be:
1.) Long-running, well known Nintendo characters with lots of potential for movesets
2.) Newer Nintendo characters that are overwhelmingly popular (not a loose term, folks) and have legitimate ideas for a moveset
3.) 3rd Party characters with a moderately long run, a lot of moveset potential, able to rival Nintendo characters for popularity (Mario vs. Sonic, that idea), keeping with the feel of SSB (a fighting game that's still just for fun, which SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES M@$T3R CH13F)

That's MY criteria.

 

[DekuBoy]

As long as Li'l Mac, K.Rool and Ridley get in I don't care what else they do. And I am going to wait til the Ridley discussion is over to retain my sanity.

 

[libertyernie]

I sorta hope they have alternate movesets, like a Kirby Super Star based one for Meta Knight or a sword-type one for Ganondorf. I doubt it will happen, however.

 

[Rychu]

Day 5, 38 spots left:
Well, It looks like the majority want Lucas kept in, so that makes our roster: (returning from)
SSB64:Mario, Link, Kirby, Samus, Fox, Pikachu, Yoshi, DK
SSBM: (non dicided)
SSBB:Lucas


Scrapped Characters: (non, yet)

Aaaaaaaand our character of the day. Boy, these things sure get alot of different character nominations, but from what I've seen, we want:
Roy

Pros:
*was very popular after the release of Melee
*Represents an under-represented series
*helped introduce many people to FE, so many want him back

Cons:
*he was a "clone" of marth
*Was a one-shot character to advertise the newest game in his series
*Is a Japan-only character


Remember, cast your votes, and nominate 3 SMASH VETRENS. Newcomer nominations will not be counted...yet.

 

[Jaklub]

Don't keep Roy.

 

[Rychu]

And your nominations?

 

[Jaklub]

And your nominations?

Another? I've had them already. Bowser (or Captain Falcon, if SSB chars do count, made this change now), G&W and Sonic.
Or should I bring another ones?

 

[Cyn]

I nominate either Simon, or Alucard.

 

[ElPanandero]

Keep Roy. Nominate Young Link, Ganondorf, and Pokemon Trainer.

@Majora

That's what I thought. Unless I recal correctly (or it didn't post, I was using my phone this weekend), I said Roid Ridley is a possibility assuming his dimensions stay the same.

 

[majora_787]

Keep Roy. Nominate Young Link, Ganondorf, and Pokemon Trainer.

@Majora

That's what I thought. Unless I recal correctly (or it didn't post, I was using my phone this weekend), I said Roid Ridley is a possibility assuming his dimensions stay the same.

:3 Well this was a fun Ridley conversation, hm.

I'll just say before we wrap this up, Sakurai himself said... And this was before the Roid Ridley... that they could make him work. With this new beefy humanoid form, stuff just got simpler.

I vote to bring Roy back provided he has a new moveset. I also nominate Bowser, Falcon, and Zammy.