[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[BirthNote]

Wait...

Someone posted something about Dixie having a tag-team mechanic with Diddy (too much text used on the last page to find out who), but for some reason Diddy is alone. Do you guys actually have proof of this mechanic being planned or is it just speculation?

 

[Pieman0920]

Sakurai actually stated that Dixie and Diddy were planned to be a team, but for technical reasons, Dixie got cut out of the equation. Most speculation is that they would have worked like a combination of the ICs, with both of them being on screen at the same time, and Zelda/Sheik, with them tagging in and out for each other and having different movesets. This would have essentially let them play like how they do in DKC2. (There's also the fact that Diddy's down B animation looks totally tacked on, and that the move is one of the rare few where it just brings out a pre existing item.)

I personally don't have the interview where he talks about Dixie, but I can assure you that it exists, and that it is pretty much the only specific character that Sakurai talks about from the characters who still had data on the disk.

 

[Shorts]

Ah! you guys are making it sound like this is what i picked! No no no no no! This is an out-of-date poll. And is just something to think about. About ten characters arent on the poll that should be. Some are in the wrong section now as well. I DID NOT PICK THESE.

A. this was made four days before E3, thats why pit is out of place, and some chacters arent in the poll.

B. Its still a good poll, it has a lot of character options to choose from, and shows that Midna, despite being irrelivant, is still more popular than toon zelda, who is relivant.


Popularity doesnt count for everything. True. But its important. Especially because 80 who took this arent total smash bros freaks like us. Just regular players

again, not my roster personal roster.

"Shortiecanbrawl's roster - more popular because he picked only the most popular characters but it does not reflect what's going on with Nintendo today"

Lies.
Not my roster. Ya digg?

 

[MKOwnage]

That's a nice roster, though a little too predictable from what I have seen all over the Internet. How about shaking things up a little with some unexpected yet possible and reasonable surprises? Stirring up some controversy is what Smash rosters are known for.

Keep everyone from Brawl except for Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Ike. Then add Toad, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Tingle, Palutena, Medusa, Takamaru, Little Mac, Duck Hunt Dog, Starfy, Isa, Meowth, Mewtwo, Zoroark, Caeda, Matthew, Mii, and Mega Man. That's what I would have done - make most fans happy and piss them off at the same time to make them beg for SSB5 as soon as SSB4 comes out.

Hey, at least it would make the "we need moar females" people STFU (at least for a short time) with the addition of Dixie Kong, Palutena, Medusa, and Caeda.

For the last time Jigglypuff stays. She is among the original 12 and has every right to be in the next game.

For Pokemon in the next game I want to see Pikachu and Jiggz of course. Then Meowth and Zoroark

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Sorry, Toise, I tried to break the paragraphs but thought it was kinda weird to see a five-sentence paragraphs in two or three lines.

Means you gotta trim fat in your posts. Pie too.

In any case in regards to fans wanting K.Rool/Kremlings, if they show up in a future game remains up in the air until we get a sequel and know if they show up. If fans grow to like the Tikis, we may get them again, or if they complain enough we may get the Kremlings back. Really though, in regards to a debate about relevancy, I don't think there can be any headway until DKCR comes out and we have a understanding on how the fanbase reacts to everything.

See this? Could've just used the last sentence and it'd be perfect. Oh well.

Most of the fan reactions so far are the exact same as how Jungle Beat ended up: "Amazing game, just wish they had K. Rool and the Kremlings [plus whoever else doesn't make it] in this. Next game better have them."

Bet you 500 million space bucks that doesn't change between now and Christmas.


@Birthday Boy: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144627

This post is the only thing that "confirms" the article even exists. No one actually questions it in the thread and the guy who posted it disappeared after the first post. Also goes against Sakurai's notion of not talking about cut characters, so it's dubious.

Regardless, there's some other stuff that hints that Sakurai wanted the tag-team anyway (Dixie's empty folder and an old Sakurai blog response where he mentions interest in the idea particularly), so it's not unreasonable to think the idea existed originally.

 

[ElPanandero]

Wait...

Someone posted something about Dixie having a tag-team mechanic with Diddy (too much text used on the last page to find out who), but for some reason Diddy is alone. Do you guys actually have proof of this mechanic being planned or is it just speculation?

Toise covered most of it and also:

1) Look at Diddy's Down-B (also the universal switch button of smash) Look at the animation, and then look Donkey Kong Country Two's switch mechanic animation, nearly identical.

2) The move substituted in it's place was a simple path instead of a real move. Take the switching animation and throw in a pre-existing item from the game script. A minor fix that wouldn't take any real to time to program.

 

[SmashChu]

casual players dont care about whether a character is relevant or whatever. they care about their favorite characters and characters they think are cool.us dont people understand that?

Thank you for voicing the opinions of a group you know nothing about.

 

[BBQTV]

Thank you for voicing the opinions of a group you know nothing about.

wow are you serious? look at this guy.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Chu: He's actually stating a much more universal fact: NOBODY* cares about relevancy, popular opinion, or technical/legal issues in regards to characters they want.

Think that should've been obvious when you ask any person anywhere what characters they want and they inevitably include several that obviously have no chance of appearing.



*

Spoiler

except roster obsessives like us

 

[augustoflores]

is it possible for nintendo to buy off the rights to a franchise (or a now defunct company)(to the extent that nintendo is just a company, i don't want to hear the words "nintendo would never do that, ur dumb, stfu n00b" or whatever people say)? have they ever done it? my everlasting curiosity...

off topic:
SmashChu seems to be exhibiting moar negativity in this thread than he previously showed, imo

bbqtv, idk why but that avatar of yours gives me the impression of someone who wants to argue. your previous one was also something to do with gyakuten saibon but for some extremely strange reason it didn't give me the impression...

arcadenik... get a avatar already, its like i am talking to no one. (don't get the wrong impression from that statement, i mean well... like always)

 

[Pieman0920]

I'd think a more casual fan wouldn't really factor in relevance in regards to their decision, but it might come off that way as they would likely choose characters from games that they recently have played. Other than that, there might be nostalgia thrown in there, but its hard to say if that would be a large factor, seeing as their interest in games would only go so far. (Hence their interest is only casual)

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

is it possible for nintendo to buy off the rights to a franchise (or a now defunct company)(to the extent that nintendo is just a company, i don't want to hear the words "nintendo would never do that, ur dumb, stfu n00b" or whatever people say)? have they ever done it? my everlasting curiosity...

Possible, yes. They've got the monies for whatever they want. Pretty sure they've never done that though, at least in regards to anything noteworthy, most likely because they've got a million franchises of their own that they're not using at the moment.

The only defunct company right now I think they might do it with is Cing, who filed for bankruptcy a few months ago. They developed Trace Memory/Another Code and Hotel Dusk and I haven't heard anything about ownership for those yet.

Spoiler

Kyle Hyde for SSB4, son

 

[augustoflores]

that guy on that sticker? if he has a gun, would snake be allowed to use his?

speaking of weapons... Advance Wars.
http://www.videogamegirlsdb.com/gamegirl/Images/Advance_Wars/Sami/Sami_AW_01.jpg
imagine using sami and she gots that awesome machine gun.

if andy is in, i can see him playing kinda like Ratchet from Ratchet and Clank series only but with two ratchets... i just cant think of an awesome FS... Landmaster? lol

for the lulz:
i just got done passing the emus of advance wars, Golden sun, MMZ 1-4, Metroid ZM, Metroid Fusion, Castlevania AoS, Mario and Luigi SS, Kingdom Hearts CoM. (in no particular order) i am currently playing the Minish Cap, i want to download GS: the lost age and Metroid II RoS.

 

[Shorts]

Possible, yes. They've got the monies for whatever they want. Pretty sure they've never done that though, at least in regards to anything noteworthy, most likely because they've got a million franchises of their own that they're not using at the moment.

The only defunct company right now I think they might do it with is Cing, who filed for bankruptcy a few months ago. They developed Trace Memory/Another Code and Hotel Dusk and I haven't heard anything about ownership for those yet.

Spoiler

Kyle Hyde for SSB4, son

No i thought Nintendo already owned Hotel Dusk?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

They had partial ownership before Cing went under and they probably have full ownership now, but I haven't seen anything official.

Of course, for Smash related purposes, both series are in the clear. Wouldn't have gotten my favorite Dunning Smith pose via sticker otherwise.

 

[Shorts]

They had partial ownership before Cing went under and they probably have full ownership now, but I haven't seen anything official.

Of course, for Smash related purposes, both series are in the clear. Wouldn't have gotten my favorite Dunning Smith pose via sticker otherwise.

Is the series anything special? Like AT status? What are you views on Magical Vacation?
Never played the series myself, but it looks awesome.

Oh, by the way for the whole 5th gen thing, it definitely deserves a rep but, its not that popular.
Zoroark got a okay amount of votes (15)
And Chiramii got low votes (2)

Where both mewtwo and Lucario have the most votes (41) (33)
And with the third amount most votes is Female 3rd gen trainer (20)

5th gen isnt public enough yet for it to get anough votes.

 

[Fatmanonice]

is it possible for nintendo to buy off the rights to a franchise (or a now defunct company)(to the extent that nintendo is just a company, i don't want to hear the words "nintendo would never do that, ur dumb, stfu n00b" or whatever people say)? have they ever done it? my everlasting curiosity...

No, not that I know of. When third parties die, they are almost never bought up by someone else. Most of the time, a third party will join up with another one to avoid going bankrupt but I have never heard of a third party buying a dead one just to revive a particular franchise.

 

[Arcadenik]

Ahh, I will admit that Meowth's chances of becoming playable isn't very good. I mean, I know Mewtwo and the latest movie Pokemon like Zoroark have higher priority over Meowth for becoming playable in Smash. I just wish Meowth would be playable in Smash for once. I guess it is the casual fan in me that really wants to see Meowth playable in Smash for once because I haven't played Pokemon games since LeafGreen and I only wanted Meowth because of the TV show. **** the executive meddling for pushing the "flavor of the month" Pokemon on us. I feel like the only Pokemon that will get in are Pikachu and other Pikachu-like electric rodents, Jigglypuff, starter Pokemon, and humanoid movie Pokemon but anime Pokemon apparently don't count. *sigh*

Also, I just realized something... wouldn't Zoroark be like Ditto in Melee? I mean, since its Illusion ability makes it appear as a different Pokemon in your party... how would that translate in Smash? Wouldn't Zoroark be basically a "random select" character where Zoroark would appear as a different Smash character during the match? What's the point of having Zoroark if its just gonna appear as a random playable character?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Is the series anything special? Like AT status? What are you views on Magical Vacation?
Never played the series myself, but it looks awesome.

Both of them are adventure games, so consider Kyle Hyde and Ashley Robbins to be similar to Professor Layton (although I haven't played Trace Memory so I don't know if Ashley does anything like shooting or swordfighting). I wouldn't expect them to be playable, and if they were an AT they'd probably do some non-combat thing like Tingle or Resetti.

Never played Magical Starsign, but the lack of hubbub/sales/localizations doesn't bode well for it.

Also, I just realized something... wouldn't Zoroark be like Ditto in Melee? I mean, since its Illusion ability makes it appear as a different Pokemon in your party... how would that translate in Smash? Wouldn't Zoroark be basically a "random select" character where Zoroark would appear as a different Smash character during the match? What's the point of having Zoroark if its just gonna appear as a random playable character?

There's a clear difference between a temporary illusion and a full transformation. There's an even clearer difference between a bipedal fox and a pile of goo.

 

[Ievan_Polkka]

As far as we know, illusion may only change Zorua/Zoroark's appearance. This would make it far from a ditto/random character. Since we still don't know very many of the new pokemon yet, I don't think we can make a very good guess about what new pokemon will be added. Zoroark is the most popular new pokemon right now, but remember he started getting votes before any 5th gen competition even appeared, so whatever he is, he'd probably be in the lead there. Still he does seem close to a pokemon who'd come next in a pattern that starts with Mewtwo and then Lucario.

As for old reps, Pikachu and Jiggs are obviously in. Lucario is probably out, unless they decide to try to get a rep from each generation, which they did try to do in Brawl, if not for the cut of Pichu and Plusle and Minun. If they go for at least one rep per generation, a guess would be making PT have 2nd gen pokemon (please not Pichu!), Plusle and Minun for 3 gen, Lucario for 4th gen, and Zoroark for 5th gen. On the other hand, more people would probably rather see the lineup including Mewtwo, PT, Plusle and Minun, and some new pokemon, which at the time is apparently Zoroark. Most other pokemon like Meowth have really low chances of getting in, unfortunately.

However, there's still one old gen that's sort of a hole, and has a chance of getting an all new rep, and that's second gen, if Pichu does not return. Some possibilities for this are a PT, Togepi, Bellossom, Marill, Unown, Wobbuffet, or Scizor. I admit none of them have good chances, but all have been a pokeball pokemon in at least one game, and hey, were Plusle and Minun really that popular? I would pick either PT, Bellossom (if Ivysaur is gone), or Scizor, as all would be great additions.

 

[Shorts]

If we get a pokemon from everygen. This is what i choose

Pikachu
Jiggs
Pikachu colored pichu/notch ear team up
Female Pt (Blazakin, skeptile, mudkip)
Lucario
Zoroark/other fifth gen

 

[BBQTV]

you mean blazakin,grovile, mudkip

 

[augustoflores]

squirtle, ivysaur, charizard
totodile, bayleef, typhlosion
mudkip, grovile, blaziken (this is how you spell blaziken btw)
piplup, grotle, monferno
its always the same combination...

As for old reps, Pikachu and Jiggs are obviously in. Lucario is probably out

sigh... i hate the word obvious... the word probably is fine.

@ arcade, polka-dot: get an AVATAR!! [rage mode!]

 

[Jarun]

As long as my ol' pal Lucas is still in the fight, I'm down for anything!

 

[Fatmanonice]

As long as my ol' pal Lucas is still in the fight, I'm down for anything!

I think Lucas is safe solely because he was a starting character in Brawl. So far, no starting characters have been cut but that rule could very well change. The only starting character I think may be in danger of being cut anyways is Ike.

 

[Shorts]

you mean blazakin,grovile, mudkip

Yess, i meant that. I was obviously not entirely there when replying to this ^-^"

 

[libertyernie]

No, not that I know of. When third parties die, they are almost never bought up by someone else. Most of the time, a third party will join up with another one to avoid going bankrupt but I have never heard of a third party buying a dead one just to revive a particular franchise.

I can think of just two examples: Sega bought the rights to Puyo Pop after Compile went under, and Sony somehow ended up with the rights to Lemmings (nobody's quite sure how THAT happened.)

 

[BirthNote]

In regards to the Diddy/Dixie replies, thank you all for clearing that up.

 

[Big-Cat]

Let's also not forget that Disney got the rights back for Oswald the Lucky Rabbit just for Epic Mickey. Watch the Geno fans use this as evidence in future arguments.

 

[BBQTV]

except i dont think nintendo cares about geno

 

[augustoflores]

have we covered everything already?
i don't want repeating comments over and over, which is why i mentioned the rights thing... i don't believe anyone mentioned it as a way (kinda out of the box way to get chars) besides the use of the word third party.

seriously, is there nothing else that wasn't covered yet? sure, speaking of the same thing will bring out every spec of dust that is in the box, every corner is pretty much licked clean by now, get another box, man. i am sure that there is something that someone has in mind for super smash bros. 4 that they are too scared to say to the public or something like that.
(i love using metaphors btw)

oh and i barely noticed that FMOI is a moderator... what a trip!

 

[Tomato]

As far as I'm concerned, these are my predictions/wishlist

Characters Out -

Lucario
Ike (Provided a new Fire Emblem game is released)
Toon Link (In favor of another Link form, perhaps Wolf Link or whatever the most recent installment of Zelda is by the time SSB4 is in the making)

Characters In -

- Zororoak (Or however the hell you spell it. He's got too similar a body-type to Lucario & he'll be more marketable by that point - He'll probably be very similar in playstyle. At this point any pokemon other than a marketing chip doesn't make much sense, considering there are so many. Pikachu is the face of the series & Jigglypuff is immensely popular in Japan, hence its inclusion in SSB64)
- New Fire Emblem Lord (Roy was a promo for FE6, Ike promoted FE9/10, it only makes sense they have a new promotional lord)
- Balloon Fighter (Old character, but it would be a good way to revitalize an old series. Use of balloons would make him interesting)
- Tails/Knuckles/Shadow (I only think they'd add one of the three, most likely Shadow since he would play like a slower, more powerful Sonic. Tails would be cool, but he's not as popular anymore, and the - Sonic/Shadow rivalry overshadows the Sonic/Knuckles rivalry. For the sake of having more 'evil' characters for an adventure mode, Shadow would make sense)
- Geno (Because he's awesome & I want him in the game. We got gypped for Brawl. Stupid Square Enix.)
- Little Mac (Punch-Out came out for the Wii, and he was an AT in the last game. He'd be a good marketing choice)
- Samurai Goroh (Antagonist that Captain Falcon needs, would help popularize the F-Zero series. Black Shadow comes to mind too as a potential antagonist for Captain Falcon)
- Waluigi (The idea of Mario & Luigi v. Wario & Waluigi seems too appealing for Nintendo to pass up. Plus he was an AT)
- Dixie Kong (Probably the most popular Kong not in the game, and also one of the only females. Tiny Kong would work as well, almost interchangably)
- New Link Form (Deku Link comes to mind, or perhaps a WW Link)
- Nights (Probably the most popular non-Sonic SEGA character. It's a longshot but if SEGA wants to promote another one of its characters Nights would be an interesting choice.)
- Megaman (Capcom's 3rd party inclusion. Although I fear he would be too much like Samus. A longshot)
- Bomberman (One of the fathers of multiplayer gaming has eluded Smash for too long. His inclusion in such a game is necessary, and I'd be upset if he wasn't included. Although his character is kind of one-dimensional, I will say they made an entire moveset for Captain Falcon, who never was playable off the racetrack until Smash. So there's hope)
- Midna (The most popular & newest of Zelda characters. Incredibly well-received in Twilight Princess & deemed one of the best new characters of the decade.)
- Banjo & Kazooie (A popular tag team from Nintendo's past. They would definitely be an interesting Smash character & would be a good 3rd party choice. RARE would make a lot of money off of it.
- Krystal (Star Fox lacks a female character, and Krystal is really the only female character. Mario has Peach, Link has Zelda, so now Fox needs Krystal. Her psychic abilities give the makers a lot to work with. Peppy's too old, Slippy's too hated, and none of the other Star Wolf characters are popular enough to warrant being in Smash. Krystal is the best bet for a new Star Fox rep.)
- Poo (A longshot, but Ninten is too similar in appearance to Ness, and Poo probably would have the most interesting fighting style of any other Earthbound characters. Ninjas are incredibly marketable.)
- Amingo (Because he totally is amazing)
- Pac-Man (An immensely popular old school character, a father of video gaming itself. The power dot would make too good of a final smash. Pac-Man World model would be used, and he did a bunch of different things in those games)
- Female Pokemon Trainer (Probably with 2nd Gen starters, to go in order)
- Knuckle Joe (Only new Kirby character I can think of. The big 3 of the series are all in as of Brawl. Adeline is a potential option, but she's more fitting as an AT, and none of the other generic Kirby enemies (save the hapless Waddle Dee) make for much of a character. I'd still say his chances are slim.)

That's really all I can think of for now. And as far as Pikmin goes, Olimar is definitely staying in, although I don't think Louie has much of a shot. He's just too similar, nor well known enough to warrant it.

 

[Pieman0920]

@Tomato: There's no hard evidence that characters that can be considered promotional will be cut in later games. Roy and Pichu, the most often cited characters for this were indeed both cut, but they were both clones, and there are other factors that effected them. There's also evidence that the theory is a load of rubbish when you look at Ness and Lucas. Ike's not a clone, has had very postivie fan reactions (on the level of Captain Falcon really) and FE10 really wasn't fully represented anyways. Lucario also isn't a clone, and there's nothing indicating that he'd get cut. (There is one pottential thing that could get him easily knocked out of the running, and that would be a new evolution in Gen 5 or 6)

Also Sakurai said no to Balloon Fighter. :V

And Rare wouldn't give Banjo and Kazooie to Smash unless Nintendo got them back, which is unlikely. They probably wouldn't make that much money either, given how many third party characters you have there Tomato.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why does it seem like that whenever someone makes a list of wanted characters, you have to say something about them? And once I get back home tomorrow afternoon, I intend on cross examining SmashChu's post on balancing along with his use of a Malstrom article.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'd say I only go for about half of them. I know I shouldn't bother, since more times than not the person won't even come back, but eh, whatever. They posted something, so they may as well get a reply.

 

[PF9]

Another idea, which I borrowed from the Mario baseball games, I would like to see implemented into SSB4 is chemistry between CPU characters in team battles.

Chemistry could be based on either how they get along in their own games (for characters from the same series; for example, Mario would have good chemistry with Peach but bad with Bowser), or plotlines from the Adventure mode.

As for cross-series chemistry between characters, Link would have bad chemistry with other swordsmen except Toon Link and Young Link (if he returns). I see him as someone who shows disdain for others in his profession, seeing them as rivals, and overall being somewhat stubborn. I especially see bad chemistry with Marth.

Examples of how chemistry might work:

Those with bad chemistry would often attack one another - even when friendly fire is off.

And I must stress again that all characters from Melee and Brawl need to return. Of course, most of the non-returners had that status because of development time constraints.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@SPF 900: Sounds like a lot of extra work for programming AI and probably not too necessary for regular battles. Stuff like that for certain event battles is good though, in fact I think they've done that before.


@Kuma: Pieman is by far the second most active poster in this thread. I applaud his enthusiasm.

@Pieman: Guess who takes the crown for most active poster? I applaud their enthusiasm too.

 

[Big-Cat]

I have no problem with his enthusiam, it's a minor annoyance that he responds to these come and go posts that more often than not have the same requests and such. I suppose we're all guilty of this though.

And Arc and Polkka, you guys really should get avatars. For me at least, it makes it easier to remember who said what (I'm a visual learner). Shortie, when I get back home, because you'll like it, I'll make an avatar sized picture of that Lady Gaga vs. Ibuki picture for you.

 

[SmashChu]

Why does it seem like that whenever someone makes a list of wanted characters, you have to say something about them? And once I get back home tomorrow afternoon, I intend on cross examining SmashChu's post on balancing along with his use of a Malstrom article.

And here I was thinking that the post was otherwise ignored.

 

[Shorts]

Have you heard about the whole "Ash's Pikachu" Event going on in japan? Anime is being connected with games. Meowth anyone?