[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Shorts]

I had an idea that may sound crazy. What if Funky Kong could be playable in a future iteration of Smash? K. Rool isn't coming back anytime soon and Retro has said "wait and see" on additional Kongs in DKCR. I guess after playing Mario Kart Wii I see him transitioning into the mainstream audience like Diddy Kong. I don't know, it was a thought that just hit me.

There is just something about those shades... o_O

Okay lets break this down real quick. If King K Rool was off limits to smash, which is a tiny bit crazy sounding but lets just say this is the case. Wouldnt Dixie come before funky? Wouldnt the new Villain cme before the funk? Their is a reason his name is funky kong. He's got something funky about him that most people dont like. I dooooooont enjoy the funkster. Its usually a punishment to be funky kong when me and my friends/family play Mario Kart Wii.

So in all honesty, without K Rool the list probably would look like this:
Dixie > New Villain > Funky/Tiny (Tiny too has been in a racing game, and was actually playable)
But i still see a large fan base for K Rool, just like Geno. Except K Rool has an advantage, he isnt a third party, and hasnt been out of a video game (Not including Cameos) since 1993. Thats as long as I have been alive Actually the release date for Americas SMRPG was thrre day before i was born :D

 

[Starphoenix]

Okay lets break this down real quick. If King K Rool was off limits to smash, which is a tiny bit crazy sounding but lets just say this is the case. Wouldnt Dixie come before funky? Wouldnt the new Villain cme before the funk? Their is a reason his name is funky kong. He's got something funky about him that most people dont like. I dooooooont enjoy the funkster. Its usually a punishment to be funky kong when me and my friends/family play Mario Kart Wii.

So in all honesty, without K Rool the list probably would look like this:
Dixie > New Villain > Funky/Tiny (Tiny too has been in a racing game, and was actually playable)
But i still see a large fan base for K Rool, just like Geno. Except K Rool has an advantage, he isnt a third party, and hasnt been out of a video game (Not including Cameos) since 1993. Thats as long as I have been alive Actually the release date for Americas SMRPG was thrre day before i was born :D

Your probably right on Dixie Kong, but honestly she is pretty forgettable. She was great in DKC2, outside of that not so much. Maybe that is just me? :\

Funky Kong still has a chance, if only because of him being in Mario Kart.

 

[Pieman0920]

Funky Kong isn't named Funky because people don't like him. He's named funky because he is hip and he's hep. He's cool. He's jive. He's the bee's knees.

Anyways, there's no good indication at this point that Funky will be a playable character. Perhaps DK will have a costume that looks like Funky, but really that's probably the most that could happen, unless he gets some major type of role in DKReturns. (And he would also have to get said major role while someone like Dixie doesn't get one as well)

 

[Shorts]

Your probably right on Dixie Kong, but honestly she is pretty forgettable. She was great in DKC2, outside of that not so much. Maybe that is just me? :\

Funky Kong still has a chance, if only because of him being in Mario Kart.

He does. I dont disagree on this. However so does Diasy, and Waluigi, and Rosalina. Like them , he has a smaller chance then Bowser Jr, K Rool, Toad, and Dixie.

On a different note, my poll is doing great. And here would be the roster according to the publics votes: (New/Voted for characters will be in bold)

Mario Series:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.

Loz Series:
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Midna and Wolf Link

Yoshi series:
Yoshi
No new character

Wario series:
Wario
No new character

Kirby Series:
Kirby
King DeDeDe
Meta Knight
No new character

Pokemon:
Pikachu
JigglyPuff
PT
Mewtwo
Lucario

Mother:
Ness
Lucas
No new character

Fire Emblem:
Marth
Ike
Roy
Black Knight

Donkey Kong:
Dk
Diddy
King K Rool

StarFox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

Retro:
Ice Climbers
Game and Watch
R.O.B
Pit
Little Mac

Smaller Franchises:
Olimar
Golden Sun Hero
Saki
Animal Crossing Character (not resetti)
Custom Robo Character

F-Zero Series:
Falcon
Samuria Gorah

Metriod Series:
Samus/ZSS
Ridley
Dark Samus

Third Parties: (Voted to return)
Sonic
Megaman
Snake
Bomber Man

This is smash, voted by the English Speaking Public.

 

[Arcadenik]

That's a nice roster, though a little too predictable from what I have seen all over the Internet. How about shaking things up a little with some unexpected yet possible and reasonable surprises? Stirring up some controversy is what Smash rosters are known for.

Keep everyone from Brawl except for Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Ike. Then add Toad, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, Tingle, Palutena, Medusa, Takamaru, Little Mac, Duck Hunt Dog, Starfy, Isa, Meowth, Mewtwo, Zoroark, Caeda, Matthew, Mii, and Mega Man. That's what I would have done - make most fans happy and piss them off at the same time to make them beg for SSB5 as soon as SSB4 comes out.

Hey, at least it would make the "we need moar females" people STFU (at least for a short time) with the addition of Dixie Kong, Palutena, Medusa, and Caeda.

 

[BBQTV]

wait you just implied jiggz is leaving. not gonna happen

 

[Pieman0920]

Bleh, why do people still keep on saying that it should be Saki instead of Isa. I mean its somewhat understandable to still go with Isaac instead of Matthew, but Isa has more moves than Saki, is more recent/relevant, and has had a traditional international release.

Also getting rid of Lucario and especially Ike/Jiggs would all be really bad ideas. Heck, Jiggs doesn't even fall into the hypothetical trend of what Pokemon and Fire Emblem may be experiencing. (Which may not even be real in the first place. Pichu was always a joke, and Roy was a clone from a non international game, and he still almost got in. Its not like Lucas replaced Ness, so the whole "changing protagonists" thing has a hole in it as it is.)

 

[BBQTV]

the past says. characters in smash become popular even if their unknown. people dont like when you remove characters so why do it arc?

 

[Arcadenik]

Why do I remove/replace characters? I aim to make the roster a bit different and more fresh from the previous game. Why, all fighting games do that all the time. They don't hoard all the characters and let the roster accumulate in later games. They remove/replace characters from one game and add them back in another game and so on. It is not a big deal. You guys act like it is an "once added, can never be removed" thing. Is that why you guys don't want certain characters added in Smash in the first place because you would be stuck with the characters you hate (or think are not important enough) for the rest of the future games?

 

[Starphoenix]

There is no need to replace Ike. Heck the only Fire Emblem character currently who has a realistic chance of appearing is Sheeda/Caeda. She's a lance user so that would give her a nice, fresh playstyle if the developers chose to do so.

 

[Decote]

I have just seen what you said about the rights of Shonen Jump characters and I recognize that you are right, it would be pretty complicated. I thought in a Nintendo/Shonen Jump crossover, but you could substitute Shonen Jump for another franchise (as Capcom). The thing is that I would see as a good idea to leave Super Smash Bros. saga rests for some years with a kind of spin-off (like Capcom vs SNK series).

What I pretended to say is that the fact of adding second bananas as Dixie Kong, Bowser Jr or Krystal will not make the game to be a wonderful one. My idea of Super Smash Bros. saga is that the roster should be built with "Nintendo All-Star" characters, that is, with only games protagonists and villains. And also, I will only add characters from games with have had at least a sequel (except for "Retro" characters) .

In this way, we should not see characters as Jigglypuff (Japanese fanbase), Falco (he is not more important than Wolf in recent Starfox games) or Toon Link (fanbase). And my idea with supporting characters would be more realistic for characters as Princess Peach or Zelda which have barely appeared fighting in their own games ( seriously, I hate to see Princess Peach crushing other characters with her skirt moves :S)

 

[BBQTV]

you just called peach a man

 

[libertyernie]

Toon Link's appearance in SSB4 probably depends on if he has another game or not. At this point, it's not a sure thing. But you know they'll probably have 2 versions of Link in there.
Fire Emblem will probably still have 2 characters: Marth and whoever the newest game's protagonist is. Don't be surprised if Ike and Roy are DLC later on.
Mii probably won't make it, since Nintendo might not want a game where you, the player, gets beat up.
Every sentence I write will probably have the word "probably" in it.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Arc: Other games, fighting or otherwise, tend not to go 5-7 years or so between installments. The prominence of its characters and popularity of the series also makes Smash's roster the most important cast of any game I can think of.

Needless to say, adding characters for shock value rather than appeal is pretty ********. Also you have a flimsy grasp of what appeals to people other than yourself.


@Ernie Hudson: DLC is very unlikely, given both Sakurai and Nintendo's attitudes towards it.

 

[Shorts]

And again, I didnt choose this roster, it was voted on. Their is a few characters that i would like to see that arent on the current voted roster. Close to, but not my exact roster.

 

[Fakescaper]

Brawl chars + Jump Super Stars chars + Megaman chars

 

[Shorts]

Over the course of SSB history, one character has stood out above them all to be the "lame" one. The character that takes three good hits to finish, yes, Jigglypuff. I personally have always liked jiggs, but found a new favorite in her in SSB64. It seems as the character list becomes larger, and the moves become more unique she is losing more and more power.
I think its easier to play SSB64, as Jiggs than In melee, and even more so in brawl.

So what specific "problems" should be fixed? I can beat everyone as jiggs in 64. Can barely beat anyone as her in brawl. Why is this?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

larger roster = larger imbalance

Jiggs got a short stick, cross your fingers for next time

 

[Big-Cat]

larger roster = larger imbalance

Jiggs got a short stick, cross your fingers for next time

A larger roster does not mean a larger balance. SSFIV and Tekken 6 have equal or larger rosters and are much more balanced, or so I hear. It lies into how much they care about balance. I'm currently on vacation in San Antonio and posting on my iPhone so I can't say much.

 

[Shorts]

A larger roster does not mean a larger balance. SSFIV and Tekken 6 have equal or larger rosters and are much more balanced, or so I hear. It lies into how much they care about balance. I'm currently on vacation in San Antonio and posting on my iPhone so I can't say much.

Hopefully they care about balance more in ssb4. But I doubt they will >.>


Off topic:
Happy Vay Cay! Your in the gay capital of the nation, you lucky dog you X)

 

[BBQTV]

balance is the least of their concerns.

off topic: i got second place at a tournament and i got 40 bucks

 

[DekuBoy]

Smash Bros isn't your normal fighting game. To balance a game as random as Super Smash Bros is like taming wild dogs. Incredibly hard and at the end of the day domesticated to the point where it isn't what it's meant to be.

 

[Arcadenik]

All right, Toise, maybe I have a filmsy grasp of what appeals to people but Shortiecanbrawl's poll reads a lot like what people wanted in Brawl (circa 2006-07) but didn't. I mean, look at the bolded names in his roster.

1. Bowser Jr. - okay

2. Midna and Wolf Link - why are they still considered? What makes them any more special than Tetra, Vaati, Skull Kid, and other one-time Zelda characters? Other than that, she's not relevant in current Zelda games (Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword)

3. Mewtwo - okay

4. Lucario - why is he on the poll? Also, no brand-new Pokemon? Smash usually adds at least two newcomers in each game (I expect Zoroark and I am hoping for Meowth in addition to the returning Mewtwo)

5. Roy - okay but I don't think he's that likely if he's not relevant in current Fire Emblem games

6. Black Knight - why is he still considered? Other than being a villain, what does he have? Also, he's not relevant in current Fire Emblem games (the DS remakes)

7. King K. Rool - okay, but no Dixie Kong? Sakurai must have a filmsy grasp on what people want if he considered Dixie Kong over King K. Rool

8. Krystal - okay, but if she wasn't furry fodder, would she still be considered?

9. R.O.B. - why is he on the poll?

10. Pit - why is he on the poll? He's not even retro anymore now that Kid Icarus: Uprising is coming soon

11. Little Mac - okay, but why is he still considered retro if he had a game last year? So, basically we get no retro newcomers in SSB4?

12. Golden Sun Hero - which one? Isaac or Matthew? People will automatically say Isaac but Matthew is more likely because he's relevant to the most recent Golden Sun game and he's practically identical to Isaac in every way (compare Ninten and Ness)

13. Saki - okay but why Saki? Why not Isa? He's relevant to the most recent Sin & Punishment game and he's practically identical to Saki in every way

14. Animal Crossing character - never gonna happen but okay

15. Custom Robo character - okay but why is this character still considered if it is practically a dead niche series? Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment, etc. are niche series but they got new games

16. Samurai Goroh - okay, but F-Zero has a slim chance of getting a second character since the series hasn't had a game since 2003 or 2004

17. Ridley - okay

18. Dark Samus - why is she still considered? She isn't relevant in Metroid: Other M

19. Sonic - why is he on the poll?

20. Mega Man - okay

21. Snake - why is he on the poll?

22. Bomberman - okay

My picks for SSB4 newcomers are influenced by current Nintendo games (post-Brawl games), what Sakurai originally planned to put in Brawl, and fan popularity.

1. Toad - two Toads are playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, a major 2D Mario console game, and it makes sense to have Toad playable to milk NSMBWii's success in the same sense it makes sense to have Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, and Young Link playable in Melee to milk OOT's success

2. Dixie Kong - Sakurai originally planned to put her in Brawl as a Diddy / Dixie tag team but removed her because of technical issues, perhaps he can solve these issues in SSB4

3. King K. Rool - fan popularity

4. Tingle - the only Zelda character to gain his own spin-off franchise complete with four games

5. Palutena - Sakurai is working on Kid Icarus: Uprising so it is very possible that he might want to add her and justify it by saying "we need more females" like he did with Zero Suit Samus in Brawl

6. Medusa - same with Palutena

7. Takamaru - he's very possible because Nintendo has been giving him attention lately, he was a supporting character in Captain Rainbow and now he has a playable role in Samurai Warriors 3

8. Little Mac - he's extremely likely because he has fan popularity, he had a new Wii game, and Nintendo is giving him lots of attention lately

9. Duck Hunt Dog - okay, that was all on me, there's no reason to add him other than for the lulz but at least he would be a retro newcomer

10. Starfy - he's no longer Japan-only, he's got five games, he's got lots of merchandise, sounds like a good choice for SSB4

11. Isa - Sin & Punishment is no longer Japan-only, he's practically identical to Saki in many ways and he's more recent

12. Meowth - all right, that's also on me but he makes sense because he's one of the few famous/popular non-Legendary Pokemon that is not an electric rodent or one of the starters

13. Mewtwo - the single most wanted Pokemon for SSB4 simply because he was removed in Brawl plus he was planned to be in Brawl at one point

14. Zoroark - he's very likely because he's being promoted as the Lucario of the 5th generation

15. Caeda - she may seem random but right now (at least for now), she's very likely because she's a major character second only to Marth in the DS remakes

16. Matthew - Golden Sun is back but Isaac is not, this new guy is Isaac's son and he happens to be practically identical in every way and he's recent so why not?

17. Mii - they are not very likely but they make sense if Sakurai decides to add "create-a-fighter" mode and the Miis are perfect for it, plus it also appeals the casual players (hey, at least the Mii is a Nintendo character)

18. Mega Man - fan popularity

Shortiecanbrawl's roster - more popular because he picked only the most popular characters but it does not reflect what's going on with Nintendo today

My roster - less popular because I picked not only the most popular characters but also the less popular characters but it does reflect what's going on with Nintendo today (maybe that's why people initially hated Melee and Brawl rosters when they were first revealed)

I remember reading somewhere that Sakurai said something about having a Smash roster with nothing but the most popular characters does not excite him...

 

[DekuBoy]

I remeber that. No matter what Nintendo has so many classic characters that people will always be disappointed.

 

[Pieman0920]

*sees Arc mention that Dark Samus and BK aren't an option because they aren't relevant*

*Puts in K.Rool despite K.Rool not showing up in DKReturns*

*Also Meowth and Mewtwo, but they are up to a bit more debate when looking at the nature of Pokemon*

Arc, be consistant.

 

[BBQTV]

casual players dont care about whether a character is relevant or whatever. they care about their favorite characters and characters they think are cool.us dont people understand that?

 

[Arcadenik]

Just because King K. Rool isn't in DKCR doesn't mean he isn't irrelevant in the whole series, it just means he is irrelevant in that one game. He is still one of the main characters of the whole DKC series. That's like saying if Bowser isn't in Galaxy 3, he is suddenly not relevant to be in Smash.

Mewtwo and Meowth, while they are not relevant in the games, they are very much relevant in Pokemon merchandise and Meowth is still relevant in the Pokemon anime. Also, at least they keep showing up in many Pokemon main games and spin-off games where Mewtwo serves as a boss and Meowth is one of the protagonists.

Black Knight is not one of the main characters of the whole Fire Emblem series. He was in only two games and he wasn't even the protagonist.

Dark Samus may be the main antagonist in the Prime games but she is not in the same level as Ridley and Mother Brain. Dark Samus only appears in Prime games and the Prime trilogy is now over and the series is back to worshipping Super Metroid again by making a second sequel to this game (the first one being Fusion). So, Other M is relevant to the series right now, not Prime games.

Also, let's look at the differences between Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Metroid, and Fire Emblem.

Donkey Kong series has the same characters showing up again and again in later sequels and in Mario/Donkey Kong spin-offs. The most likely characters are the playable protagonists (Donkey, Diddy, Dixie) and the series' villain (King K. Rool).

Pokemon series has different protagonists in each game but the 1st gen Pokemon keep showing up in 2nd/3rd/4th/5th gen games. The trainers are interchangeable but the Pokemon are not - unless the Pokemon's sole purpose is to promote the latest games like Lucario did for 4th gen and Zoroark is doing now for 5th gen.

Metroid series has the same characters showing up again and again in later sequels like Samus, Ridley, Kraid, and Mother Brain. Dark Samus was only a plot point for the Prime games and the story is over and the plot point is dead and the series is back to focusing on the original storyline.

Fire Emblem series don't have recurring characters that appear in many games. It is like Final Fantasy games where there are almost no recurring characters except recurring generic classes and enemies. The closest thing we have to a recurring Fire Emblem character is Marth.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

All right, Toise, maybe I have a filmsy grasp of what appeals to people but Shortiecanbrawl's poll reads a lot like what people wanted in Brawl (circa 2006-07) but didn't. I mean, look at the bolded names in his roster.

Polls should generally be ignored. They're too small of a sample size and they tend to include/exclude various characters because the creator doesn't know as much as they should. Also Shortie's poll lets you vote as many times as you want. So, you know, there's that.

I remember reading somewhere that Sakurai said something about having a Smash roster with nothing but the most popular characters does not excite him...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=72642

Keep in mind that while "popularity" isn't a requirement, "appeal" most certainly is. Sakurai wants people to play as characters even if they're never heard of them. Can't do that too well if they don't appeal to very many people. Think Marth and (especially) Roy in Melee.

 

[Pieman0920]

You're really not making sense Arc. The Prime series can be analogous to the DKC/64 series, seeing as both had a few games before it, and also had games after/during that didn't relate to it at all. If the old DKC series is over, and we have a new one with a new set of bad guys, then K.Rool relevancy is about the same as Dark Samus who was the main villain of the Prime games. You also have to keep in mind that this is pretty much a series reboot here with a clear aversion to Kremlings, and thus the future isn't looking that bright for K.Rool if there are multiple games. Thus that brings up the question of why use a character who isn't going to be used for a series main line games? Bowser was the main villain for the Mario series overall when he was put in, but K.Rool was only the main villain in the rebooted DK series, and now that its going to be rebooted again without him, there seems little point in adding him if you're going to use relevancy as a reason to let people in.

Also as far as Mewtwo and Meowth are concerned, I'd say that Mewoth is more relevant in merchandising, while Mewtwo is slightly more relevant in games. That being said though, the games that Mewtwo has been showing up in are simply spin off games like Pokemon Rumble, and Meowth's merchandising means jack **** since if it couldn't get him into Smash back in its prime, its not going to do that now. Thus, Mewtwo is only really relevant by means of something that you very well know means next to nothing, and outside of that is just one out of 30 other legendary Pokemon. Meowth is even worse, because while he keeps on showing up in games, he does so just like every other Pokemon, and by the time Smash4 shows up, he'll be lost in a sea of over 500, with no relevancy.

 

[Arcadenik]

Meowth has no relevancy in the games but he is one of the few, I mean very few, well-known Pokemon out of the sea of over 500 Pokemon. He stands out because of the anime and I think Sakurai recognizes that because he brought Meowth back in Smash, even if it was only as a Pokeball Pokemon... it may not look like much but Meowth is the only Pokeball Pokemon that was removed from Melee and brought back in Brawl while the other Pokeball Pokemon that was removed from Melee did not come back. Of course, the Pokemon Trainer and Lucario had priority over Meowth because one was the closest thing we have to a recurring main protagonist and the other was to promote the 4th gen.

Out of the sea of over 500 Pokemon, which Pokemon stand out from the crowd? The starter Pokemon and the Legendary Pokemon for sure. But besides them, what other regular Pokemon stand out in the sea of over 500 Pokemon? Pikachu (still is to this day), Pichu (still is to this day), Meowth (still is to this day), Togepi (back in the Gold/Silver days), Plusle & Minun (back in the Ruby/Sapphire days), Lucario (back in the Diamond/Pearl days), and now Zoroark (in the Black/White days). Who are they gonna add after they add Zoroark to milk the 5th gen and bring back Mewtwo to appease the fans? I think the most sound next-in-line choice has to be Meowth unless they decide to add more clones like Pichu as their last resort to buff the roster.

Now, about DKCR, it is not a reboot. It just means that King K. Rool is not in the game, nothing more. The game is only returning to the original DKC trilogy's roots in the same sense that Mario vs. Donkey Kong is not a reboot, but a return to the original arcade's roots.

 

[Pieman0920]

Your points about Meowth don't mean a thing in regards to his relevancy. The anime is the anime, and if his role in there had any real push, then he would have gotten in already. The fact that he was returned as a Pokeball Pokemon doesn't really show that he has any relevance either, since again, if he was really revelant again that would have been more. Since then though, what exactly has Meowth done to actually change anything from Brawl to Smash 4? Do you honestly think that he'll have a larger role in any of the upcoming games? He's decreasing in relevance, and by your standard shouldn't get in because of that, and you pretty much admitted it with PT and Lucario.

And DKCR is a reboot. Its returning to its roots, but its not a continuation, but rather starting over again. Mario vs. DK was also a reboot of sorts, though it wasn't a reboot of the more popular part of the series. :V

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

DKCR is most definitely NOT a reboot. Lack of K. Rool and Kremlings (or other Kongs and animal buddies) doesn't mean reboot. Giving DK a cannon in his chest and a backstory featuring King Arthur would be a reboot.

Also the lack of K. Rool and the apparent lack of everyone else has made a lot of fans upset. It's pretty likely that they'd do something about that in any following games (and there's plenty of time for those).


also you guys need to learn how to break paragraphs



edit I DUB THEE SIR DONKEY KONG

 

[Arcadenik]

Sorry, Toise, I tried to break the paragraphs but thought it was kinda weird to see a five-sentence paragraphs in two or three lines.

And Pieman, so basically the Pokemon is not influenced by anything except for what the Pokemon Company is doing with the games?

Pikachu - mascot of the franchise because Pokemon Company made it so
Jigglypuff - random Pokemon
Mewtwo - star of the first Pokemon movie and used by Pokemon Company to market movie-related merchandise
Pichu - used by Pokemon Company to promote Gold/Silver
Pokemon Trainer - protagonist of Red/Blue and its remakes FireRed/LeafGreen and his starters were used by Pokemon Company to promote FireRed/LeafGreen
Lucario - star of the latest Pokemon movie during Brawl's development and used by Pokemon Company to promote Diamond/Pearl
Zoroark - star of the latest Pokemon movie as of right now and is currently used by Pokemon Company to promote Black/White

 

[Button Smasher]

I want Ichigo and Naruto in :D

 

[DekuBoy]

Too bad.

And does DKCR ignore the events of the past three DKC games, starting the series again? Look at Batman Begins. It starts a franchise over again. However DCR is obviously a continuation.

 

[BBQTV]

I want Ichigo and Naruto in :D

get the **** out of this thread!

 

[DekuBoy]

Dude calm down. Ignore crap like that it just wastes space.

So, anyone think that Kid Icarus deserves another rep?

 

[BBQTV]

i dont think so but i bet their people who do

 

[xceed_xcel]

I don't think so since there are only thee main characters Pit,Palutena and Medusa.Medusa and palutena don't seem likely.

 

[Pieman0920]

Arc, I'm not quite sure exactly what you're trying to say there, or why you disregarded things on Jigglypuff, but may I remind you the point of the debate would be that you discounted chances of certain characters due to relevancy, and if you could really say if Meowth or Mewtwo are actually relevant here and now. Its not about why Pokemon got in at the time that they did, but why there is a problem in your selection as it is now.

@Toise: I wouldn't go that far, but I do recognize that it isn't a reboot thanks to Dekuboy there. I shut it out of my head that a reboot also has a different continuity in most cases. (Like the Batman film series as Deku pointed out, or Punch Out) As it stands I'm not certain if DKCR actually has new continuity, and while its possible it does, it probably doesn't. They are going back to basics with a redone system, which is why I jumped to say it was a reboot, but I totally forgot about that one point.

In any case in regards to fans wanting K.Rool/Kremlings, if they show up in a future game remains up in the air until we get a sequel and know if they show up. If fans grow to like the Tikis, we may get them again, or if they complain enough we may get the Kremlings back. Really though, in regards to a debate about relevancy, I don't think there can be any headway until DKCR comes out and we have a understanding on how the fanbase reacts to everything.