[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SmashChu]

I agree with Pieman, and also If you balance moves for 1 V 1 there's less likely to be huge gaping flaws in any character's moveset when they enter a multi-man fight. If they had 1 V 1 tested Metaknight for balance and fixed him, he wouldn't be any less viable in FFA.

No, actually, he wouldn't be. He already suffers in 4vs. If you nerf him too much, he'll end up being a worthless character.

 

[ElPanandero]

But if his skills were altered so that he does less impressive in 1 V 1's, his skills wouldn't be nerfed, just different. I never said nerfed.

 

[BBQTV]

No, actually, he wouldn't be. He already suffers in 4vs. If you nerf him too much, he'll end up being a worthless character.

this proves smashchu doesn't know what he's talking about. this is certainly not true

 

[Big-Cat]

I thought most people came to the conclusion that balancing for 2 player fights would probably be the best. In most cases, people don't really player 4 player (or 3 player) matches that competitively, and thus there is a smaller demand for actually trying to balance everything. Most competative Smash though is 1 v 1, so it would make more sense just to focus on that. Plus, it would take a lot more time and effort to really try to get 2 v 2 matches balanced up.

Even if you throw out competitive Smash out of the window, 1 vs. 1 would be the most practical since once you included two other players in a FFA, it's anybody's guess as to who will win. Not only that, but the casual players who play FFA may not mind considering that balance is not the top of their priorities (but they will say something if someone sucks or is too good) but rather mindless fun.

@SmashChu
Do you claim to be some expert on 4vs? Are you the head of FFA community that we don't know about?

 

[augustoflores]

stop it, STOP IT! you're tearing this thread apart! heh...
we better NOT start trolling here. (i didn't bother looking up the def... i am guessing what it is)

some new light... for ssb4, should there be a story akin to subspace emissary but that it isn't handled the way it was in brawl? can anyone think of a way to make it happen where it won't suck balls? replayability to be high like vs mode?

more shadows now... how can 3DS smash handle the single player mode? for the people who don't live near others with a 3ds nor do they have a hotspot within their homes, they need a satisfactory single player mode with replayability.

------ in brawl, the SSE had minimal branches to the story, the only ones i see are kirby win, mario win... zelda save, peach save... that pretty much sums what they did to handle the branches... i want it to have so many branches in order to fight a different main villain at the very end... NME... Zero-Two (or zero-three if there is one in epic yarn)... Mother Brain... Master Hand (crazy hand if another branch was used, and both if certain things happen)... (tabuu is dead) Medusa if she isn't playable... that guy that controls black shadow, what's his name... Porky in a Smash exclusive new mech... Sigma final form (the big virus head) or Dr. Wily if classic rockman is used, or Dr. Weil if MMZero is used, i don't touch the other series of mega... Eggman if sonic stays... Metal Gear REX should be boss not final boss... idk on final boss for snake if he stays. Cackletta? nah... she was easy in the game to me.
final bosses must be smart or really evil.

edit... i never played earthbound long enough to see alot... is that starman a boss? is he hard? y'know, the gold thing on the box art or that gray thing in my melee trophy? is it good enough to be final?

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd rather not see such an emphasis on the single player mode again. Sakurai should have followed Miyamoto's advice back when he gave it to him for SSB 64 and kept it for Brawl: Focus on the multiplayer modes. We need a robust online mode far more than we need some mediocre story mode. If he really wants a good single player, have branching story lines where each character's side of the story is only shown as I've said in the past.

EDIT: Starman is one of Giygas' minions. I can't say how hard he is as I'm currently in the cave with the moles.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Make online good, that's all it needs. No one will give two ****s about the single player if the online multiplayer is better than bacon.

 

[Big-Cat]

Make online good, that's all it needs. No one will give two ****s about the single player if the online multiplayer is better than bacon.

Which is why I said to focus on the online. A good online mode can add several hours of replayability.

 

[BBQTV]

Which is why I said to focus on the online. A good online mode can add several hours of replayability.

more like weeks and days and months and years

 

[augustoflores]

i can see (neji reference). people have been scarred by SSE to not give a better handled version a chance. like i always say, anything can happen when everything is possible. and i am a strong believer that everything is possible. the will of one basically destroys the concept but that doesn't mean it isn't plausible... it is an unknown unknown. you will never know, you will never be able to know unless you see it or experience it yourselves.
one experience isn't the template for life. EXPAND... MANIFEST DESTINY!! all you peons who serve the creator, know that everything is possible.

sorry... i was a little bored, i am not trying to offend anyone or their own beliefs but just to guide you through the dark corridors of your own claustrophilic corners. (i invented the word, idk if it exists... a play-on with claustro- and -phile)

when i wrote the previous comment, i had the people in their homes who don't have a hot spot near their homes nor other gamers that live nearby to play smash3ds with... vVv Rapture... are you evil? don't you care about those people who love smash to death but recently moved to a neighborhood that had no gamers or any hot spots nearby? what should they do with their time, smash with comps? you're a jerk (cleveland family guy shawshank redemption parody reference)! (note... this isn't what happened to me... i am just very universal to see all points of view, especially the neglected ones... usually i don't care but i can still see it... i guess that makes me the jerk, lol)
oh, i forgot about giygas... would he be final boss material?

can't they do both online awesomeness and another team work with amazing stories and branches? one track mind, i swear.

 

[BBQTV]

can you stop using meaningless meaningful words

 

[augustoflores]

i said sorry, jeez.

 

[Starphoenix]

edit... i never played earthbound long enough to see alot... is that starman a boss? is he hard? y'know, the gold thing on the box art or that gray thing in my melee trophy? is it good enough to be final?

There are several different Starmen that appear in the game, some are individual bosses and others are generic enemies.

Starman Jr.=Boss
Starman=Enemy
Gold Starman=Enemy
Starman DX=Boss
Ghost of Starman=Enemy
Final Starman=Enemy

To answer your other question the Starman on the boxart is of a Final Starman. The Melee trophy is of the generic Starmen.

 

[Ievan_Polkka]

Here's why balance in 1v1 does not mean balance in FFA, nor does it mean it would be fun for FFA players.

Imagine there are 2 characters, Microchu, and Gigadorf. Microchu only has one attack, which hits the nearest enemy for 1 damage, and moves him to where that enemy is, and does virtually no knockback, unless the enemy is at 999%, then it gets a KO. Gigadorf only has one attack, super gerudo warlock punch, which always hits all enemies in the game for 999% damage and instant KO, but is very slow. Microchu wins 1v1, but Gigadorf owns in FFA. If you buff Gigadorf/nerf Microchu to fix the 1v1 matchup, FFA becomes even more lame. Yes, this FFA is lame, not just unbalanced, even for the casual player. So, in order for characters with moves like Gerudo warlock punch or Link's Up B to be balanced in FFA, they must be to week in 1v1, and for them to be balanced in 1v1, they must be too strong in FFA. Thus comes a problem, since with this diversity it's very difficult to balance. I admit this is highly exaggerated, but many smaller versions of this are going on. Thus, 1v1 balance != FFA balance.

I also support good in both singleplayer and multiplayer modes, although multiplayer is far more important, as after long enough, it's basically all most people will play, anyway. Singleplayer just will eventually get old, but I still find melee's multiplayer to be the most fun of any game still, even with how much I've played it.

 

[SmashChu]

But if his skills were altered so that he does less impressive in 1 V 1's, his skills wouldn't be nerfed, just different. I never said nerfed.

Uhhh, what?

What works in 1v1 does not work in an FFA. Example:try chain grabbing in an FFA. Since there are four people, two of them now have a free shot on you and the play your chain grabbing. You put yourself at a disadvantage.

Meta-Knight's speed isn't that big of a deal in 4vs. In 1v1m you can attack fast enought o keep one opponent at bay. But try three others. He doesn't have a lot of kill moves unless you hit right on withj them (his down smash isn't as good as people claim it is. It's just fast). If they were to make him slower, he would be worthless. There would be no reason to pick him because you could pick another fast character (like Fox) who has better KO.

@SmashChu
Do you claim to be some expert on 4vs? Are you the head of FFA community that we don't know about?

No, just that no one on Smashboards knows anything about it. They even think that the top tiers in 1v1 would carry over to a style of play that is nothing like what they are use to.

can you stop using meaningless meaningful words

Can you type more then one line

 

[ElPanandero]

I understand, again, your assuming I mean Nerf. Oh and By the way, Meta Knight is still a stall *****, that makes him overpowered in everything except Timed FFA, which is just as bad as only balancing for 1 v1 4 stock. If MetaKnight has been less stall gueer and other minor adjustments (Kuma, I believe, had a small list of decent ideas).

 

[BBQTV]

why would i do that smashchu? i can say all i want without making walls of text.anyway nintendo doesn't give a **** about balance so unless you hack it in you wont be seeing balance

 

[SmashChu]

I understand, again, your assuming I mean Nerf. Oh and By the way, Meta Knight is still a stall *****, that makes him overpowered in everything except Timed FFA, which is just as bad as only balancing for 1 v1 4 stock. If MetaKnight has been less stall gueer and other minor adjustments (Kuma, I believe, had a small list of decent ideas).

If you are playing with friends, and stall, they will call you a huge f*ggot and stop playing with you. In the end, Meta-Knight loses. Of course, stalling will not work with a Pitfall or a Hot Head.

Here is the thing though, if you were making Smash, what would you balance? Would it be 1v1, or 4vs. You know way more people play 4vs and it is the hallmark of the game. Would you still put 1v1 first. The reason 1v1 doesn't get balanced is because only a few people play it, and most people aren't that serious about it. 1v1 is really a Smashboards thing and most people play up to the number of players they have. They also play with more stages and some items so they tend to change up the balance anyway and can make it a lot more even for all characters (as everyone can shoot a Super Scoop or swing a Beam Sword). So, why care that much if 1v1 with no items on Final Destination is perfectly balanced and all characters can be used at the biggest Smash tourneys?

But let me illustrate this point.

As with most people in rage, what they say they are angry about is not the case. Here is the ‘hardcore bubble’ pattern that goes on with many games:

1) Game comes out and is popular.
2) While normal people eventually move on to other games, some people keep playing the game religiously.
3) These people build websites, forums, communities, and dissect the game to death. They give themselves the crowns of experts.
4) The sequel of the game is announced. These ‘experts’ are very excited.
5) Once they get the game in their hands, the following occurs:
A) Once they begin to digest the sequel, they start making suggestions to the company to “fix the game”. The game company ignores them because they want to sell as many copies as they can. The ‘experts’ are shocked that the game company is ignoring THEM. After all, they see themselves as the supreme experts of the game. They literally expect the game company to give a snappy salute and say, “Sir! Yes sir!” and begin redoing the game toward the ‘experts’ wishes.
B) The ‘experts’ begin talk of how the game company has ‘fallen’ and aren’t as good as they used to be. The ‘game company’ doesn’t CARE anymore. They attack the ‘eeevil casual gamers’ who, apparently, are the only ones the game company listens to.
C) Suddenly, everything becomes “wrong” in the game according to the ‘experts’. The art is wrong. The sound is wrong. The gameplay is wrong. The code is wrong. They declare the company doesn’t know what it is doing.

A, B, C then loop over again and again in a constant cycle.

Sound familiar?

 

[Shorts]

@BBQTV and SmashChu, Do you realize you two kill this thread? Fyi, try to refrain from the any slurrs please. I wouldnt come in here saying the N word, dont use the Fa word please.

 

[BBQTV]

@BBQTV and SmashChu, Do you realize you two kill this thread? Fyi, try to refrain from the any slurrs please. I wouldnt come in here saying the N word, dont use the Fa word please.

i have no clue what any of this means. what is an any slurrs?

 

[Rubberbandasaurus]

My very long opinion

Richter Belmont would be fun but Simon would make more sense. The games were mainly on Nintendo systems and they have Snake in the game which has even less reason. Since they're both from Konami it shouldn't be an issue. I was thinking that uppercut for an up special and the item Cross as a final. I think only Richter had those though.

Eggman could be a character (in his floating device that attaches to all his machines) or as a boss.

Paper Mario could be a Mario skin or a character. Also Dr. Mario should be an alternate skin. He needs a new final smash as well. So does Luigi. Mario's F.L.U.D.D. problem needs fixing as well.

Maybe Bowser Jr. I know there's a lot of Super Mario Bros. characters already but if they end up have a huge amount of total characters then this would be okay. He could be a Bowser clone. They could give him Bowser's new side special and give Bowser back his Melee one. On the Bowser subject, his final should have been Clown Copter but he deserves Giga Bowser just as much.

Pokemon Trainer should have a costume for both Red and Blue from HG/SS also the pokemon should be more balanced. It's a fact that Charizard is stronger than Squirtle but they made them on the same par in Brawl.

Toon Link should have a different final smash and a young link costume. His jump and speed, being younger and therefore weaker, should be worse than Link's. They should just give him different tools. Some from a young link game. Maybe the fire and ice arrows.

Ganondorf should be back to Melee speed. Or better yet, give him his own moveset. He's already the least played character anyway.

Samus should have very strong specials. Maybe as strong as Ike's smashes. She uses bombs, missiles, and lasers. Those should be more powerful don't you think?

Olimar shouldn't have been a character in the first place because it's impossible to make him match the game. Same with Snake. Those games are about strategy. Olimar and Snake jumping that high does make me laugh though. They clearly are here to stay and I find Olimar fun to play as anyway.

Maybe Toon Zelda and she could turn into Tetra.

They need to add some more Melee stages and edit them if they're broken stages it's better than not having them. Customizable stages should have a much bigger variety.

Online mode needs more options and better connection. (For whatever reason they only messed up internet connection and lag on that game)

I might have forgotten something so I may edit this.

 

[Cyn]

Richter Belmont would be fun but Simon would make more sense. The games were mainly on Nintendo systems and they have Snake in the game which has even less reason. Since they're both from Konami it shouldn't be an issue. I was thinking that uppercut for an up special and the item Cross as a final. I think only Richter had those though.

I like this guy.

 

[Pieman0920]

@Rubber: Castlevania's chances for getting one character are fairly dubious, let alone two. Even so, its likely that a second Castlevania character (after Simon) would be Alucard rather than Richter. Still, I don't think any third pary series should have two characters from it, so I don't think there should be a second Castlevania character or second Sonic character. (And we all know Robotnick would be like 4th or so in line for a Sonic character spot)

If Dr. Mario were to be a alt skin, then he would keep the same final smash, as well as the same neutral special attack. You can't just change things like that and still be considered just a skin, you know. Personally I'd also say that Paper Mario would work much better with an original moveset, since there's so much to work off of. (Though the same thing could be said about Toon Link, and we all know what happened there) The same thing applies to Bowser Jr. who also shouldn't really be a clone, and being so would just be lazy on the developer's part, though its entirely impossible that the develoopers would be like that.

I have no idea what you're talking about witht he Pokemon Trainer

Toon Link can't have a Young Link alt skin because they have different bodies. It would be like throwing in Baby Mario as an alt skin of regular Mario.

Samus with projectiles as strong as Ike's smashes smells broken.

I also have no idea what you're talking about with Olimar and Snake, but you're really wrong if you honestly think they couldn't "match the game" in regards to Smash because they obviously are in. Also MGS isn't really what I'd call a strategy game.

 

[Cyn]

.......... Even so, its likely that a second Castlevania character (after Simon) would be Alucard................

I like you even more now too.

 

[BBQTV]

Castlevania's chances are really low if snake's coming back and even then not high

 

[libertyernie]

The reason I think Toon Link jumps higher is because in Four Swords Adventures (and I think Minish Cap as well?) you get the Roc's Feather, while it doesn't appear in OoT or TP.

P.S. I still want to see Sparkster.

 

[UberMario]

I don't understand why people think Castlevania getting representation is impossible, the series has had EIGHTEEN games on Nintendo systems includng 2 on the Wii and 3 on the DS. (Sure not all the games have Simon as the star, but he's been in several, including one of the Wii games)

 

[Cyn]

I don't understand why people think Castlevania getting representation is impossible, the series has had EIGHTEEN games on Nintendo systems includng 2 on the Wii and 3 on the DS. (Sure not all the games have Simon as the star, but he's been in several, including one of the Wii games)

This.

Not to mention it is one of the longest running series to date. That continues to release installments on Nintendo platforms. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't there been a Castlevania release on every Nintendo platform (excluding virtual boy)? Anyways, a castlevania character would make more sense than Snake.

 

[DekuBoy]

Huh. You guys think a game about bashing Nintendo characters face in has to make sense? Sakurai love Kojima therefore Snake is in.

 

[BBQTV]

what he (deku boy) said. its not about who deserves to be in at all its who the maker wants, noone seems to understand this

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Huh. You guys think a game about bashing Nintendo characters face in has to make sense? Sakurai love Kojima therefore Snake is in.

Sense in terms of series relation to Nintendo, yeah.

More than half of all Castlevania games (and most of the best ones) are on Nintendo platforms. Metal Gear games might as well have been PS exclusive after MGS1.

 

[DekuBoy]

Yeah but Castlevania doesn't mean a darn thing to Sakurai and Metal Gear does. End of story.

 

[Pieman0920]

DekuBoy, are you Sakurai? Are you a close friend of Sakurai? How do you know exactly what he thinks of the series?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Yeah but Castlevania doesn't mean a darn thing to Sakurai and Metal Gear does. End of story.

Except we were talking about whether a series with a flimsy relation to Nintendo fits better than a series that's pretty much built on Nintendo consoles. A lot of fans have an issue with this.

And there's still nothing that specifically says Sakurai doesn't like Castlevania and/or would never consider adding Simon, even if Konami already has Snake and Metal Gear.

 

[BBQTV]

it's not that he doesn't like it, it's that he doesn't care about proper representation. seeing who got in in the past should tell you this as well

 

[DekuBoy]

DekuBoy, are you Sakurai? Are you a close friend of Sakurai? How do you know exactly what he thinks of the series?

Yes I am. Here's what he said:


'Castlevania? Is that the one with the whips? Silly girly game. Think I'll add Dark Matter in the next Smash Bros.'



Here's my more sensible anwser:


All our aimless speculation here is based on what Sakurai has said. He obviously likes Metal Gear more being a close friend of Hideo Kojima's and for all we know doesn't even know Castlevania. Snake is in the SSB series now. If he wants a new Konami character then that's up to him. But we can't presume much not knowing what he thinks of the series.

 

[BBQTV]

this i agree with

 

[Akuma2120]

I have a feeling there won't be a SSB4, is there any news or even rumors?

 

[BBQTV]

no news. but what makes you think their wont be

 

[Starphoenix]

I had an idea that may sound crazy. What if Funky Kong could be playable in a future iteration of Smash? K. Rool isn't coming back anytime soon and Retro has said "wait and see" on additional Kongs in DKCR. I guess after playing Mario Kart Wii I see him transitioning into the mainstream audience like Diddy Kong. I don't know, it was a thought that just hit me.

There is just something about those shades... o_O