[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Arcadenik]

Hey look, thanks to Pie telling me to go make this thread more interesting I did just that. Pie manages to be the unsung hero once more.

Now then since Kuma said items I just got a thought popped into my head: How about something where you can determine how chaotic each item is and the game gives default stuff? For instance, you can put "Items Allowed: "Lower Items only"" Which would remove stuff like say Hammers or Bombs and the more "Middle" Stuff.

I'll make this more clear in the mourning when I'm not dead tired if you guys still don't catch my idea there. I'll also reply to other points made tomorrow.

In other words, more options where we can toggle groups of items on/off without having to toggle EACH ITEM on/off like we do in Melee/Brawl? That sounds good but how would we classify each item? It shouldn't be by series because there are some series that have only one item so it would still be like toggling each item on/off. I think it should be by type. Container items, healing items, status-changing items, shooting items, bludgeoning items, explosive items, and summoning items sound good.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm not going to debate with you on that other stuff. I'm enjoying Super Street Fighter 4, even without my stick, getting good grades, have a performance tomorrow in one of my classes and I'm really excited, and finals are almost here. I'm not going to let you be a detriment to my enjoyment.

If Smashchu really bothers you to the point of affecting your personal feelings you should consider going offline awhile.

I'm struggling to find out just which topic to jump into, I get off work and the heavy hitters are in here posting while I am out thinking of which of the three discussions to engage in. I hate it when this thread splinters.

 

[SamiAmiaM]

This is my first post on this site, so I don't have a lot of knowledge about how this site works, but what I do have is a lot of ideas, and opinions. More specifically, I have a lot of ideas for future characters, and improvements on current ones. I don't know everything about every game, so I will try to keep in my area of expertise. On that note, one thing I find very insulting about brawl is the lack of originality within the StarFox characters. I am pretty confident that I could come up with individual special moves for all three existing characters, as well as Krystal, and I am sure that many of you could do the same. So I will start off by putting B moves for those four characters.

Fox
B- Blaster
Side B- Fox Illusion
Up B- Fire Fox
Down B- Reflector
Final Smash- Landmaster

Falco
B- Blaster (I think that it is different enough now)
Side B- Hand Grenade (Like in Assault)
Up B- Jet Pack (Less Fuel than ROB's but faster lift)
Down B- Reflector (I think that it is different enough now)
Final Smash- Arwing (Hind of like Snakes, but two bombs, and lasers for like 6 seconds)

Wolf
B- Blaster (Same as Falco)
Side B- Same as it is
Up B- Same as it is
Down B- Small mines (Like in Assault)
Final Smash- Fireburst Pod (Also like in Assault)

Krystal
B- Fire Blaster
Side B- Ice Blaster
Up B- Rocket Boost
Down B- Ground Quake
Final Smash- Krozoa Trap (or Demon Sniper)

I know this is kind of out of the blue, but I thought I'd put it out there

 

[Pieman0920]

Pieman, does it really matter whether Toad is an individual or a species? What's the difference between Toad and the two Toads in NSMBWii? What's the difference between Yoshi and the eight Yoshis in Yoshi's Island games? Nothing except for color so the "generic" argument is moot. It doesn't matter if Toad is not one of the two Toads in NSMBWii or whether Toad is the red Toad of the Toad Brigade in SMS and SMG1+2 because Toad can just represent all the Toads if he is playable just like Yoshi can just represent all the Yoshis in Smash.

The Yoshi's Island games actually had a main green Yoshi who is different from the Mario series main Yoshi who was born at the end of YIDS (Or not if you go by some other games, but I'm not even going to try to get into how Yoshi lifecycles or reproduction works) Still this is a pretty big misconception, that ties in with the fact that most people automatically assume that the Yoshi in Smash is the main Mario series Yoshi rather than the Yoshi's Island Yoshi. In all reality though, the whole thing is screwy beyond words because I'm fairly certain that prior to YIDS, the main green Yoshi from YI was actually supposed to be the main Yoshi from SMW, but I digress.

The main factor that sets the Yoshi speices, and its two main Yoshis away from the Toad spieces, and its main Toad, is that one has a series based around itself as a speicies whole, while the other doesn't. Given how the main green Yoshis are still the main focus of this seires, while Toad has been getting less and less attention, and his role has been given to other Toads, I feel that is the main difference between the two when it comes to this issue.

In that sense, it is like how Smash Link may look like TP Link but he is really representing all the Links and how Smash Zelda may look like TP Zelda but she is really representing all the Zeldas. So, please stop using the "generic" argument against Toad because it is really moot. All that matters is that Toad is one of the major Mario characters in main games whether he is playable or not and whether he is an individual or a species.

Different incarnations throughout history don't quite match up to this issue you know. Toad's speices I will admit still has a major role, but Toad himself, the original one, has been loosing more and more of his roles and turning more and more generic. He used to be Peach's right hand man, but that got taken up by Toadsworth. He used to be the playable toad, but that got taken up by Blue-Toad and Yellow-Toad. The speices hasn't gone away, but the main Toad himself is dissapearing, which isn't the same thing as what has happened to Yoshi. That's why Yoshi can stay as an individual despite his species, while Toad himself is disspearing and being replaced by several different characters.

I also don't think it matters if Toad doesn't have big roles like he did back in the 20th century because Smash is not just about Nintendo All-Stars battling each other, it is also about Nintendo history. Toad is both classic and modern because 1) Toad was one of the main characters in early Mario games (classic) and 2) Toads are playable in NSMBWii (modern). So, a playable Toad in Smash would be the sum of classic and modern Toads and that's one of the reasons why I think his moveset should reflect that.

Nintendo's past can be covered by much better things than Toads, and you know it. As far as giving the Mario series representation thoughout the years, its perfectly fine as far as the past goes, what with the four main characters it has now. If you're trying to make a statement about representing Nintendo history, then as far as Mario is concerned, it'd probably be best to focus on more modern things.

 

[Big-Cat]

If Smashchu really bothers you to the point of affecting your personal feelings you should consider going offline awhile.

It's not necessarily that. I have a tendency to dwell on things that are going on around me. If I didn't have anything else to do, I might debate with him.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Thirdkoopa, did you even read my post or did you just look at the length of my post and then decide not to read it and tell me to make it shorter for you?

Nope. I read your whole post (And watched the video, for that matter) and it completely dodged the point of this debate - The point was putting more of a view onto other possibilities as well instead of just stirring out the same thing.

But as for one point brought up, for the "Mario Big Eight" I'd just like to bring up that it could possibly be coincidence? Bowser Jr wasn't really there at the time, and for that matter, as far as those games you mentioned, I could even remember that Kamek was suppose to be in Mario Kart 64 instead of DK. It all seems more like coincidence at this point than an actual priority on cast. Furthermore, how much does Sakurai even notice it if the company itself does?

Fiddle around with that.

In other words, more options where we can toggle groups of items on/off without having to toggle EACH ITEM on/off like we do in Melee/Brawl? That sounds good but how would we classify each item? It shouldn't be by series because there are some series that have only one item so it would still be like toggling each item on/off. I think it should be by type. Container items, healing items, status-changing items, shooting items, bludgeoning items, explosive items, and summoning items sound good.

We could classify them by chaoticness. Series could also be good. Type is perfect - You did that very well.

Any other suggestions on this?

As for Chu/Kuma: If you're going to debate about it, at least end up trying to reach middle ground or remembering that there's other ways to add depth (Y'know, after 20 debates how I came in saying this)

 

[Big-Cat]

As for Chu/Kuma: If you're going to debate about it, at least end up trying to reach middle ground or remembering that there's other ways to add depth (Y'know, after 20 debates how I came in saying this)

Mind that I've been at a middle ground this entire time. My ideas intend to be so that the game is for everyone regardless of whether they are casual (read, not soccer moms) or hardcore tournament players. Nonetheless, the best players are those with dedication as their time with the game should be rewarded. With that in mind, I suppose I'll get into another debate.

Monopolies are typically tied to industries, not products. Nintendo would be a monopoly, not Super Smash brothers. Monopolies also doesn't mean a lack or quality. It just means they are in an industry where there is no competition (and it can be on a local or regional level). You can have a monopoly with a good product.

Also, people have alternatives. Videogames are an entertainment medium, so consumers can just not buy videogames and just buy something like a CD or rent a movie instead.

This seems more of a way to say that Smash bros is somehow not a "quality" product.

I know you love to use words strictly by the dictionary definition, but you should have noticed that I said, "so to speak". I know monopolies involve industries, not products.

You can have a quality product in a monopoly, but there is no external intiative to keep the quality up. If people have to keep coming to you with no alternative, it doesn't matter to you what the quality is so long as you get the money. Therefore, you CAN have a product of bad quality in a monopoly.

Take into consideration of the context I was referring to in my post regarding alternatives. 2D fighting fans can choose from games like Guilty Gear, Street Fighter, or whatever. 3D fighting fans can choose from Tekken, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, and more. FPS fans can choose from Halo, Call of Duty, and more. Music game fans can choose from DDR, Step it Up, Guitar Hero, Rock Band and more.

What can you choose from that's of the same caliber as Super Smash Bros. in the platformer fighter genre? There really aren't that many of them. This is what I referring to when I meant alternatives.

If this is a way of me not saying Super Smash Bros. is a "quality" product to you, it's not. Unless you want to be a hypocrite by telling me it's not okay to say Super Smash Bros. sucks. The series is in danger of degrading itself if there is no competition to motivate Nintendo to do its best on the game.

 

[SmashChu]

If that was a comment in his offense not only do you guys officially disappoint me, toise, and FMOI, but you also bore us all. That goes to the general thread.

Offense to whom?

The reason I said it was because there is a tendency for the old crew to try and oust anyone new. This happens on smaller forums a lot with closely knit people. The one thing that would be bad is for the people here to start being rude to people because they want to discuss SSB4, even if it's not on their little topic.

Adding on to the Toad thing, I thought it was kinda funny how apparently Yoshi's Island DS makes it the big seven

Well, let me ask you: Do you really want Baby Toad?

The Yoshi's Island games actually had a main green Yoshi who is different from the Mario series main Yoshi who was born at the end of YIDS (Or not if you go by some other games, but I'm not even going to try to get into how Yoshi lifecycles or reproduction works) Still this is a pretty big misconception, that ties in with the fact that most people automatically assume that the Yoshi in Smash is the main Mario series Yoshi rather than the Yoshi's Island Yoshi. In all reality though, the whole thing is screwy beyond words because I'm fairly certain that prior to YIDS, the main green Yoshi from YI was actually supposed to be the main Yoshi from SMW, but I digress.

Well first, we have no idea how many individual Yoshis there are. They could be different ones in each game.

The other thing is that ever Yoshi or main Mario game Yoshi is in, it's actually multiples of them. Yoshi's Island had 8 different Yoshis. In Yoshi's Story, there were 6 new born Yoshis. Every main Mario game has a bunch of them. It's no different from Toad except that some of the main games he's been in has only one, distinct Toad (SMB2, Wario's Woods, NSMBWii has two unique Toads). [/QUOTE]

 

[augustoflores]

@Arcadenik
can't you be happy that we already have the big 8? Peach is covering for both herself and Toad; don't take away her neutral special, i am just starting to use her again (ps. i am winning because these players i play against don't fight her often, it is awkward for them)

i make a da list:
For Toad: Arcadenik, SmashChu, ???
For Bowser Jr.: ???
For Neither: Toise Of Choise, ???
For Both: KumaOso
For don't care or Medium: augustoflores, ???
this is just my speculation, i cannot say the other people cause they confuse me with their side.

if tingle gets in, his icon will be the rupee correct? not triforce? my question is, what will be Megaman's icon? or Megaman x's icon, or the genre as a whole? the only one that i can think of is NT warrior's icon of Megaman.EXE's crest but that would not symbolize the classic or X incarnations, it isnt even in the same dimension...

could they just use the 1up Helmet thingy? E tank? Arm Cannon? the whole Logo? a big Dr. R or Dr. L for america? im sure since X was built by Dr. Right then they could, in theory... hmmm
what do you guys think... only to the people who play megaman games should answer this part.

@SmashChu, just to be straight, you are for Toad, right?
@Pieman, are you for Medium/ don't relatively care in the end or neither but prefer B Jr.?

 

[SmashChu]

@SmashChu, just to be straight, you are for Toad, right?

Yeah, I would be.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm for both.

 

[Cyn]

my question is, what will be Megaman's icon?

I'd be for a sillouette of the 1-up

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Kuma: To be fair, Sakurai:

- is a fan of Street Fighter and other fighting games
- doesn't keep track or notice sales that much
- hates sequels without innovation

So chances are he not only views other fighting games as serious competition, but even without them around he'd still pursue some form of change. Brawl also got flak for not changing enough for a lot of people, so I'm positive he'll have some more motivation to try something notably different.

Granted, it almost definitely won't be the changes you want, but changes nonetheless.


@Augusto: Rupee for Tingle always sounded right since he's really not much of a Zelda main series character anymore. And Mega Man should either be the 1-up or just the helmet by itself like so:

 

[Big-Cat]

@Kuma: To be fair, Sakurai:

- is a fan of Street Fighter and other fighting games
- doesn't keep track or notice sales that much
- hates sequels without innovation

So chances are he not only views other fighting games as serious competition, but even without them around he'd still pursue some form of change. Brawl also got flak for not changing enough for a lot of people, so I'm positive he'll have some more motivation to try something notably different.

Granted, it almost definitely won't be the changes you want, but changes nonetheless.

I never said he hated Street Fighter or other fighters, but that's nice to know. The same applying to sales and such. If anything, this is more for SmashChu than anyone else since I don't consider sales as the top indicator of how good or bad something is and am aware of there being different factors involved.

Remember though that I was referring to competition within its sub-genre, but yeah, you can look at the genre as a whole. As for the changes not being the ones I'd like to see, who knows really whether or not he'll implement any of them. It's not like you or I have access to that kind of information. For all we know, the ideas might have been considered during development. He did say there were some ideas he had in mind that were not put in due to time constraints.

 

[Arcadenik]

@Arcadenik
can't you be happy that we already have the big 8? Peach is covering for both herself and Toad; don't take away her neutral special, i am just starting to use her again (ps. i am winning because these players i play against don't fight her often, it is awkward for them)

i make a da list:
For Toad: Arcadenik, SmashChu, ???
For Bowser Jr.: ???
For Neither: Toise Of Choise, ???
For Both: KumaOso
For don't care or Medium: augustoflores, ???
this is just my speculation, i cannot say the other people cause they confuse me with their side.

if tingle gets in, his icon will be the rupee correct? not triforce? my question is, what will be Megaman's icon? or Megaman x's icon, or the genre as a whole? the only one that i can think of is NT warrior's icon of Megaman.EXE's crest but that would not symbolize the classic or X incarnations, it isnt even in the same dimension...

could they just use the 1up Helmet thingy? E tank? Arm Cannon? the whole Logo? a big Dr. R or Dr. L for america? im sure since X was built by Dr. Right then they could, in theory... hmmm
what do you guys think... only to the people who play megaman games should answer this part.

@SmashChu, just to be straight, you are for Toad, right?
@Pieman, are you for Medium/ don't relatively care in the end or neither but prefer B Jr.?

That's stupid. You know well that there is a huge difference between being a special move and being a playable character. I want to play as Toad as he faces other Nintendo characters, not select Peach just so I can catch a brief glimpse of Toad whenever I press the B button.

Also, I play as Peach and I still don't care if Toad is playable when Peach still uses Toad as her special move. Why? Because there are many Toads in the Mario games so the whole "Peach needs a new B move so Toad can be playable" argument is moot. Also, if it doesn't matter if four players can play as four Marios at the same time, why is it such a big problem if one player is Toad and the other player is Peach who uses Toad as a shield?

As for Tingle's icon, the Rupee is perfect. I hope Tingle gets more games of his own in the future before SSB4 because it would really help Tingle's chances.

Now, for Mega Man's icon, I always thought that the 1-Up from the NES games or his helmet as shown on the title screens of the NES games would be fitting.

Now, in my opinion, I think that Pieman wants Bowser Jr. but would rather see only four characters if Bowser Jr. is not in. Why do I think that? Because from what I read, Pieman really wants Bowser Jr. to be the fifth Mario character and yet I noticed that he also says Mario is perfectly fine with just four characters so there is no need for Toad. Well, if Mario is perfectly fine with just four characters, wouldn't it mean there is no need for Bowser Jr., too? In short, "I want Bowser Jr. in but if he can't be playable, then I don't want any other Mario characters to be the fifth Mario character."

The Yoshi's Island games actually had a main green Yoshi who is different from the Mario series main Yoshi who was born at the end of YIDS (Or not if you go by some other games, but I'm not even going to try to get into how Yoshi lifecycles or reproduction works) Still this is a pretty big misconception, that ties in with the fact that most people automatically assume that the Yoshi in Smash is the main Mario series Yoshi rather than the Yoshi's Island Yoshi. In all reality though, the whole thing is screwy beyond words because I'm fairly certain that prior to YIDS, the main green Yoshi from YI was actually supposed to be the main Yoshi from SMW, but I digress.

The main factor that sets the Yoshi speices, and its two main Yoshis away from the Toad spieces, and its main Toad, is that one has a series based around itself as a speicies whole, while the other doesn't. Given how the main green Yoshis are still the main focus of this seires, while Toad has been getting less and less attention, and his role has been given to other Toads, I feel that is the main difference between the two when it comes to this issue.



Different incarnations throughout history don't quite match up to this issue you know. Toad's speices I will admit still has a major role, but Toad himself, the original one, has been loosing more and more of his roles and turning more and more generic. He used to be Peach's right hand man, but that got taken up by Toadsworth. He used to be the playable toad, but that got taken up by Blue-Toad and Yellow-Toad. The speices hasn't gone away, but the main Toad himself is dissapearing, which isn't the same thing as what has happened to Yoshi. That's why Yoshi can stay as an individual despite his species, while Toad himself is disspearing and being replaced by several different characters.



Nintendo's past can be covered by much better things than Toads, and you know it. As far as giving the Mario series representation thoughout the years, its perfectly fine as far as the past goes, what with the four main characters it has now. If you're trying to make a statement about representing Nintendo history, then as far as Mario is concerned, it'd probably be best to focus on more modern things.

@ the bolded part

Heh, what did I tell you guys last night? "It is okay for Yoshi to be playable but not okay for Toad because Yoshi has his own series and Toad doesn't have his own series."

Also, how do you know that the Yoshi in SMS and SMG2 is the same Yoshi we met in the second level of Super Mario World and on the roof of Peach's Castle in Super Mario 64? You don't. Because according to fridge logic, the egg belonging to the Yoshi would have to be moving all over Isle Delfino and the galaxies and that doesn't make sense so we have to come to the logical conclusion that there are multiple Yoshis in SMS and SMG2 and that Nintendo is just using the Yoshi's image on the box art to draw attention to the fact that you can now ride Yoshi in SMG2.

Smash Yoshi is really the sum of both Mario series Yoshi and Yoshi series Yoshi. Smash Yoshi got special moves from Yoshi series Yoshi and his Final Smash is from Mario series Yoshi. Smash Yoshi's stages are from Yoshi series (Yoshi's Island DS stage, Yoshi's Story stages) and Mario series (Super Mario World). I wouldn't be surprised if Yoshi gets a Yoshi-themed Galaxy stage if SMG2 has a Yoshi-themed galaxy even though it is really a Mario series stage.

Smash Toad would be the sum of both the Toad (SMB2, WW), the two Toads (NSMBWii), and the Toad Brigade (SMS, SMG, SMG2). See, Smash Toad's palette swaps would be the two Toads and the Toad Brigade, and his moveset would likely be inspired by SMB2 and NSMBWii.

New classic and new modern stuff can be added to Mario's history in SSB4, not just modern. I mean, Brawl even had three new stages from Mario's past (75m, Mario Bros., and Mushroomy Kingdom) so I don't see why you think that it is for the best that only modern stuff should be added to Mario's history, let alone Nintendo's history.

This is how I see it for Mario's history in SSB4:

- a stage based on Super Mario Galaxy 2 (modern)
- a stage based on New Super Mario Bros. Wii (modern)
- a stage based on the Mario Kart series (classic/modern)
- a Bowser's Castle stage (classic/modern)
- Toad as a playable character with SMB2/NSMBWii moves (classic/modern)

I am starting to feel that we are going back into the Pieman cycle again...

 

[Sugahighsnipa]

The two characters that I really want to be in SSB4 are megaman from the megaman battlenet series. sorry i just like that one better, and I want Sora from kingdom hearts and maybe riku from there too.

I don't care what you think about kingdom hearts.... It's raw.

 

[gantrain05]

if its megaman, classic megaman only lol.

 

[Pieman0920]

My specific stance on Mario characters is Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. I don't think anyone else actually thinks that though.

@ Arc: I don't think I was ever talking about the Yoshi of SMS and SMG2. Are those the main Yoshis? The Green one in SMG is probably. I wouldn't count on the SMS one though. Either way, I don't believe that's actually the Smash Yoshi, since the Yoshi in Smash is likely the Yoshi's Island main one. As for the move issue, that's not relivant. If Toad was in, being the representative of all toads or just himself, it wouldn't mater if he borrowed moves from others or not, just like it doesn't matter if Yoshi borrows his moves from others or not. Is Ike the representative of all Greil's Students because he has the Black Knight's warping powder in his intro? Are Lucas and Ness the representatives of their parties in Mother 2/3 because they have some of their moves? No, they just have the moves. This is a pointless thread your moving on to here, and goes away from the main fact that Toad's not important any more, even if the race as a whole may still have a role...split up as it may be.

And your stage list there isn't a good representation of Mario history at all. For one you could easily condence Bowser's Castle with the NSMBWii stage. Next off, instead of going for a second Mario Kart stage, it'd be better to simply focus on another Mario spin off. That way, you could have a 4th stage to devote straight over to a older game, such as SMB3 which has never gotten a proper stage.

 

[augustoflores]

SMB3 is my all time favorite mario game, maybe its cause its the only one i haven't passed of those that i played?
i really think that it was a bad decision for smash to have the Doc, that creates a paradox which in my mind would be the same for Paper mario... no wait!
... you know, maybe Paper Mario is from another dimension where if he could enter this one, then he could very well fight without the whole "same guy" thing over my head.
ever since Brawl and what professor layton said, i have been considering the Smash universe as a location instead of non-canon-beat-up-no-purpose fighting game. in my mind, i allow the two links to coerce in the game because i believe in the split timeline, but the whole Doctor Mario is stumping my ideals.

F.......u_.kin' DOC!!!

 

[overgamer]

if its megaman, classic megaman only lol.

And Megaman Zero.

 

[ElPanandero]

I vote for Megaman X

And on the Toad vs. Bowser Junior, I'm Ok with either (though a slight nod to BJ if he gets his shadow Mario/Paintbrush)

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I don't know why, but suddenly I felt that an Airship stage would be better than any old Bowser Castle stage. Maybe because it feels like a better place for Koopalings to show up and it's been in more of the main games lately than the castle. Or maybe because I'm sick of castles in general, whatever.

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't think you can really say that the airships have been in more games recently than the castle, since the castle always shows up in the spin off games, while the airship doesn't really. Thinking about it, the only game where you can say that the castle wasn't in, but the airships were was SMG, although I'd say elements from the castles were clearly there in some levels. In any case, I could point out that we already had an airship level for Mario, but you can just as easily point out that there was already a castle stage for Mario too. Still Bowser's castles are generally more icnoic, and when they show up in games, they show up more. (In NSMBWii for instnace, there were at least two castles per the original 8 worlds)

Also, while we may have had our fair share of castle stages, we've also had a fair share of airships too. (Rainbow Ride, Halberd, Big Blue/Coneria/Venom/Lylat Cruise if you stretch it a bit)

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

spin off games

main games

Also Airships are in Galaxy 2. And how many castle stages have we had? Hyrule Castle, the two Peach's Castles, Castle Seige, plus Temple and Skyworld for "castle-like stages." Add in how hard it seems to be to come up with something that breaks that mold for any of the fantasy-based series and you'll get another castle or two in the next game already.

I wouldn't necessarily call Bowser's Castle more iconic than the Airships, especially when the latter tends to have more of an effect on people when it shows up.

By the way, you're kinda taking the "only one ____ kind of stage" thing too seriously, especially when you start stretching definitions of certain places count as.

 

[Pieman0920]

I suppose, but that reminds me. Given all the videos and what not of SMG2, I think I've made it clear that I think that the Spaceship Mario will be a stage. I mean...it just seriously scream "I wanna be a Smash Bros stage" and what not. Given it, do you really think that there will be a more Bowser themed Airship stage at the same time?

As for Bowser's Castle and the effect that the airships have on people, I think that cements why the castle is iconic and the airships are not. Bowser is Mario's iconic bad guy. When he shows up its to be expected, because he just shows up so much, and there's no real "effect" on people. Same goes for his castle. The Koopa Kids though don't show up much, and because of that, its a big deal when they do. The Airships are similar, as they aren't as common. (Though they kind of show up more than the Koopa Kids these days)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

edit: hey toise reply to my PM

Also avatar changed. I need some nostalgia from the old days.

Offense to whom?

The reason I said it was because there is a tendency for the old crew to try and oust anyone new. This happens on smaller forums a lot with closely knit people. The one thing that would be bad is for the people here to start being rude to people because they want to discuss SSB4, even if it's not on their little topic.

Come to think of it Chu, you've summed up the reason I still post in this thread.

Contrary to all of what I've said, and even despite the only ones I really talk to often being Toise and Fatmanonice, something about you guys keeps me from being completely hostile or leaving this thread. Even with having to write that 11 page post that didn't seem to leave much of an affect on Pieman at all asides from knowing my position well. Or the amount of times I've had to tell Arcadenik to get out of Dream Land. Or the times I've had to watch constant 10 pages arguments over the smallest of things.

I don't quite get it, but there's still something I like about some of you guys. Mainly the old crew from when I was back here from the days of old for having some sense into this thread a good chunk of the time. So I guess this is the cheesy part where I say "Thanks"

edit: SPEAKING OF WHICH I MISS SCOOBYCAFE. HE WAS NEAT D:

I am starting to feel that we are going back into the Pieman cycle again...

I tried to stop it. Ah well, it seems it's stopped itself.

Mind that I've been at a middle ground this entire time. My ideas intend to be so that the game is for everyone regardless of whether they are casual (read, not soccer moms) or hardcore tournament players. Nonetheless, the best players are those with dedication as their time with the game should be rewarded. With that in mind, I suppose I'll get into another debate.

The thing is Kuma, as much as you two keep saying it, you and Chu are essentially like my parents. You two are pretty great to talk to on your own but when put together, both of you spew it up into arguments until one of you moves on or someone steps in.

 

[Starphoenix]

The castle discussion above is making me want to go back to my Dragon Quest discussion. I'm a little frightened to after being raked over the coals like last time. >_>

Barely anyone even listened to my music list. :'(

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I suppose, but that reminds me. Given all the videos and what not of SMG2, I think I've made it clear that I think that the Spaceship Mario will be a stage. I mean...it just seriously scream "I wanna be a Smash Bros stage" and what not. Given it, do you really think that there will be a more Bowser themed Airship stage at the same time?

No, I don't think Starship Mario will necessarily get in, especially since Comet Observatory came first and it appears to be better suited to a small area in 2D. Could be wrong, but I don't care either way. Neither would have any particular effect on other stages' chances. A small stage based on the orbiting planetoid physics would be more interesting than either anyway (unless you were thinking of Starship Mario being smaller than normal).

Regardless, Airships aren't inherently Galaxy-based and there isn't any conflict in style, assuming you're not broadly basing it on the fact that they're all large vehicles of some sort. That would be silly.

As for Bowser's Castle and the effect that the airships have on people, I think that cements why the castle is iconic and the airships are not. Bowser is Mario's iconic bad guy. When he shows up its to be expected, because he just shows up so much, and there's no real "effect" on people. Same goes for his castle. The Koopa Kids though don't show up much, and because of that, its a big deal when they do. The Airships are similar, as they aren't as common. (Though they kind of show up more than the Koopa Kids these days)

Bowser's Castle having a lesser effect on people means it's less interesting than the Airships. You could chalk it up to there being a dozen or so castles/forts from earlier levels to diminish its presence, the castle overuse in spinoffs (to the point where saying "Bowser's Castle" reminds people more of Mario Kart than platformers), the SMB3 factors plus the memorable theme song, or simply the fact that an airship with artillery is just plain cooler than the standard villain house.

Also kinda funny that "iconic" translates to "boring and expected" in your lexicon.



@Star: Not gonna lie, Dragon Quest is boring and I never listen to anyone's music lists. I was extra surprised you went out of your way to find the Castlevania songs I listed.

Tell you what, you find or make me some sort of DQ primer that captivates non-fans like me and I'll give you some talky-talk.


@Koops: check your inbox son

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Checked it. Unless you sent something today and it's lagging, it says the most recent one you've sent to me I've replied to.

edit: Never mind. It decided to load for me just now.

as for stages paper mario please please please. /inevitable.

 

[Starphoenix]

@Star: Not gonna lie, Dragon Quest is boring and I never listen to anyone's music lists. I was extra surprised you went out of your way to find the Castlevania songs I listed.

Tell you what, you find or make me some sort of DQ primer that captivates non-fans like me and I'll give you some talky-talk.

Primer as in a basic overview of the series, or more of the popular items within the series?

 

[Big-Cat]

edit: SPEAKING OF WHICH I MISS SCOOBYCAFE. HE WAS NEAT D:

Same here. Haven't heard from him in a while. We never got far on the storyline idea.

 

[Pieman0920]

No, I don't think Starship Mario will necessarily get in, especially since Comet Observatory came first and it appears to be better suited to a small area in 2D. Could be wrong, but I don't care either way. Neither would have any particular effect on other stages' chances. A small stage based on the orbiting planetoid physics would be more interesting than either anyway (unless you were thinking of Starship Mario being smaller than normal).

Regardless, Airships aren't inherently Galaxy-based and there isn't any conflict in style, assuming you're not broadly basing it on the fact that they're all large vehicles of some sort. That would be silly.

I don't think size is any real issue. It could be small enough to work as a 3D planatoid, or large enough to be closer to its real size. The Great Fox used to be pretty dang big back in its days in Sector Z, but now in Brawl, that thing is tiny.

Anyways, in regards to the Comet Observatory, its still possible, but by the logic that it came first, goes the logic that Bowser's Castle should go in first too, right? While I don't doubt that the location could also work out just as well, I can't help but feel that the Starship Mario seems like the better choice overall. It just seems so much more natural.

And yes, while airships are not inherently Galaxy based, being from SMB3 and all, I think it still would be a bit too repetative to have two flying ships as Mario stages, when the Mario series has so many locations. Its kind of the same as having a Mario Galaxy stage and Rainbow Road, because it becomes redundant. Yes in either scenario you can create two totally different types of stages, but its just redundant all things considering.

Bowser's Castle having a lesser effect on people means it's less interesting than the Airships. You could chalk it up to there being a dozen or so castles/forts from earlier levels to diminish its presence, the castle overuse in spinoffs (to the point where saying "Bowser's Castle" reminds people more of Mario Kart than platformers), the SMB3 factors plus the memorable theme song, or simply the fact that an airship with artillery is just plain cooler than the standard villain house.

Also kinda funny that "iconic" translates to "boring and expected" in your lexicon.

Why is boring or uninteresting paired up with expected? Is the only way you can be entertained is through surprises? Bowser's Castle has been done quite a bit, and people expect it, but if it wasn't entertaining to people it'd probably get dropped out a long time ago. The place also constantly changes, keeping it fresh, so I don't quite get what the problem is.

 

[overgamer]

More hitstun, Less aerial lag (or L-cancel), more shieldstun, No hitlag ever, melee air dodge system, insane number of chars, and hopefully SSB4 will be fix'd. Or not.... oh wait?

Reward for aggresive gameplay, not gay camping.

 

[Arcadenik]

Why is boring or uninteresting paired up with expected? Is the only way you can be entertained is through surprises?

Aha! That reminds me... the expected roster for SSB4 is really bland. Remember this?

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Bowser Jr. (a new Mario character but it is just a clone of Bowser)

6. Donkey Kong
7. Diddy Kong
8. King K. Rool
9. Yoshi
10. Wario

11. Link
12. Zelda / Sheik
13. Ganondorf
14. Toon Link
15. Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik (two new Zelda characters but they are just clones of Zelda and Sheik)

16. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
17. Ridley
18. Pit
19. Ice Climbers
20. Little Mac (the only new Nintendo franchise to get a character)

21. Kirby
22. Meta Knight
23. King Dedede
24. Captain Falcon
25. Samurai Goroh

26. Fox
27. Falco
28. Wolf
29. Krystal (she fights with her staff with the A button but uses Fox's specials with the B button, complete with a pink Landmaster)
30. Olimar

31. Pikachu
32. Pokemon Trainer
33. Lucario
34. Jigglypuff
35. Mewtwo (a new Pokemon character and it is not even new)

36. Marth
37. Ike
38. Roy (just what we needed, more clones)
39. Ness
40. Lucas

41. Mr. Game & Watch
42. R.O.B.
43. Snake
44. Sonic
45. Mega Man (a new franchise to get a character and it is not even Nintendo's)

 

[Pieman0920]

What's the point of that Arc? First off, that roster isn't going to happen. Next, if there were so few new characters, many of the ones you say are clones wouldn't be clones at all. Last off, why is K.Rool there when most of the rest of the cast is a blast from the past from those 7 cut characters? Why not Dixie? Would have fit better with your argument that most of the expected stuff would have been clones.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well, E3's in about a month so I hope something good comes from that. Sakurai said that Project Sora would be released in 2011 so I hope that once he's done with that SSB4 will be the next thing on his to do list. In 2012, it will have been 4 years since Brawl was released and Brawl started production about 4 years after Melee was released. Granted, that doesn't mean that's how it's going to be but it's something to think about.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, E3's in about a month so I hope something good comes from that. Sakurai said that Project Sora would be released in 2011 so I hope that once he's done with that SSB4 will be the next thing on his to do list. In 2012, it will have been 4 years since Brawl was released and Brawl started production about 4 years after Melee was released. Granted, that doesn't mean that's how it's going to be but it's something to think about.

Mind you that this is all under the assumption that he'll be director again. Remember, when Brawl was announced, Sakurai wasn't even the confirmed director and they were willing to get someone else.

What's the point of that Arc? First off, that roster isn't going to happen. Next, if there were so few new characters, many of the ones you say are clones wouldn't be clones at all. Last off, why is K.Rool there when most of the rest of the cast is a blast from the past from those 7 cut characters? Why not Dixie? Would have fit better with your argument that most of the expected stuff would have been clones.

I think you missed the first line of his post, Pieman.

 

[Shorts]

What if, each character had four costumes.
Ex: Mario, his original clothing, sunshine clothing, racoon suit, and cowboy mario party 2 suit.

each seperate costume has three different colors, one of which is a team battle color:

ex: Sunshine clothing has2 extra colors and blue, racoon suit has two other colors and green, and cowboy suit has 2 other colors and red.

How does that sound? that gives us four seperate costume, plus two different colors of any choice of those costumes, and we still get team battle colors.

So thats, four costumes and, twelve alternate colors.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Mind you that this is all under the assumption that he'll be director again. Remember, when Brawl was announced, Sakurai wasn't even the confirmed director and they were willing to get someone else.

They were going to get Sakurai either way. They pretty much told him that, without him, they were just going to re-release Melee with online features. Sakurai said that he took up the project because it was "his" franchise and that he had a lot of pride in it. Knowing this, Iwata pretty much got Sakurai in a psychological headlock.

Unless Sakurai's opinion has greatly changed since June 2009, it's practically a dead-lock that he'll be the director for SSB4. In 2006 he barely wanted to make Brawl, in 2007 he enjoyed it because of all the people involved, and in 2008 he said that he wasn't 100% satisfied with how Brawl turned out and he had some ideas on the backburner for SSB4. The interview in June 2009 was pretty much a repeat of what he said at GDC 08 and in May 08; he's definintely willing to do it but there's really no guarentee on when. A key factor is probably when Nintendo's next console comes out.

 

[Big-Cat]

I didn't think of that whole thing as a psychological headlock. Do you have a link to that 2009 interview by the way? I'm still feeling iffy about this interview:

http://www.levelfortytwo.com/2010/02/discussion-sakurai-and-kamiya/

The fact that he wants to make games for beginners, while thoughtful and all, bothers me. Especially in a multiplayer game (competitive or not) since I don't want these kind of games to be completely noob friendly. Accessible? Yes, but not where the skill gap is incredibly small.