[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SmashChu]

Call me a denier, but that just says that HE is done with the series. A sequel can be made without him working on it; never say never. Look at the Kirby games after Sakurai left HAL.

Series do not continue indefinitely. They will all come to an end one day. There is no point in making one "just because." Mother has closed itself at Mother 3. I see no point in making a totally new world but have them work under Mother's rules.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Sooo...

Depending on how the final evolutions turn out for the new set of starters, I wouldn't mind if Pokemon Trainer Red and his Pokes were replaced with the Black/White male trainer and the starters. These have got to be my favourite trio so far. I only hope their evolution designs are as good.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well, Zorarak was revealed to be a special event pokemon today so he's probably a lock for the fifth generation pokemon rep. I wonder if they'll keep Lucario around to appease his fans in the next Smash game?

 

[augustoflores]

zoroark has an ability called Illusion, a move similar to transformation. I (and I alone) think that it will diminish his versatility (lack of a better word)

i really wish that starter wasn't an otter and that it was instead a polar bear. a grass snake with legs? you kidding?

 

[Cyn]

200 .

 

[SmashChu]

Sooo...

Depending on how the final evolutions turn out for the new set of starters, I wouldn't mind if Pokemon Trainer Red and his Pokes were replaced with the Black/White male trainer and the starters. These have got to be my favourite trio so far. I only hope their evolution designs are as good.

I disagree. The new starters are some of the worse. I like the grass one, but the other two look stupid.

Why would anyone want to replace the main starters. They are the most memorable and have the best designs. They are perfect,

Well, Zorarak was revealed to be a special event pokemon today so he's probably a lock for the fifth generation pokemon rep. I wonder if they'll keep Lucario around to appease his fans in the next Smash game?

I doubt we'll see Zorarak. Lucario was a pretty big hit, but it's obvious this new one is just mooching off it's success. Zorarak isn't going over that well and there are a lot of people who flat out don't want to see it. I don't think he'll be popular enough.

 

[Starphoenix]

I disagree. The new starters are some of the worse. I like the grass one, but the other two look stupid.

Why would anyone want to replace the main starters. They are the most memorable and have the best designs. They are perfect,



I doubt we'll see Zorarak. Lucario was a pretty big hit, but it's obvious this new one is just mooching off it's success. Zorarak isn't going over that well and there are a lot of people who flat out don't want to see it. I don't think he'll be popular enough.

I agree with Smashchu (wow, that is almost heresy in this thread), these designs are really scraping from the bottom of the barrel. There is no reason to change the quintessential trio Pokémon for ones that are not and never will be as iconic/popular. You can only take the "they are the current Pokémon" philosophy so far. This applies to Zoroark, I jumped on the Z train when it first pulled out of the station. After some thought I hopped off it's train long ago. The only reason I think Zoroark would make for an interesting choice is because of it's illusion ability to transform into other Pokémon, which could make for an interesting special or Final Smash.

All in all we still have a good couple of years before the next Smash game is released and by that time we may be looking at a whole new batch of contenders. Even if speculatively we get a Brawl+ ala Super Street Fighter IV, we are more apt to see Mewtwo return than a new Pokémon.

 

[Pieman0920]

Again I must restate that hte 5th gen (or 6th gen) representative depends completely on when Smash 4 is being made, and what is happening in Pokemon when that happens. When Brawl was in production, Lucario was the big hyped Pokemon. If Brawl was made earlier, Deoxys would have been the Pokemon we got. If Brawl was made a bit later, we probably would have had Darkrai. Zorarak will only be in if Smash 4 is already in production or will go into production fairly soon. Otherwise we could be getting a legendary that we learn about later in the gen, or we could get something from 6th gen.

 

[Shorts]

Just saw the new starters for black and white. I gotta say, what an epic fail. They all look just aweful. Most deviantartists could do better.

 

[Big-Cat]

Saw the starters, too. Only the fire one looks okay. Let's just hope their final evolutions look epic to make up for it.

I still don't think it'll make a difference which gen is the most recent during SSB4's development. If a Pokemon is well liked, it should be considered regardless of which generation it's from. Heck, that's how Pokemon Trainer ended with the Kanto starters. That, and all three of those Pokemon (Bulbasaur instead of Ivysaur) are still popular to this day.

 

[BlackLightning90]

Me three. I saw the pokemon starters. I think they're ok.

 

[Starphoenix]

Rats, I want to add some custom music to Brawl but I don't want to do anything to void my warranty. I don't get all the Smash Workshop babble... Is it really to much to ask from the developers next time to allow us to stream music off of an SD card? Hackers can do it, but paid developers can't? If that is to much trouble why not include some sort of downloadable Nintendo music system?

A neat idea for general Wifi matches would be for "golden CD's" to drop onto the field and reward whoever picks one up the ability to download a new track. Or Nintendo could just pump one out every now and then similarly to how custom stages and videos are distributed except differently. I want my Melee Fourside theme back.

 

[augustoflores]

Just saw the new starters for black and white. I gotta say, what an epic fail. They all look just aweful. Most deviantartists could do better.

thats right, as a deviant, i could do better. i am not looking forward to the grass type evo but i am still curious as to what gameFREAK will do considering that IMO all the 3rd evo of the starters are cool with the exception of Monferno (imo), Meganium (imo), at a fork with Sceptile. after i finish with the 80+ Advanced Robot Masters i should invent some Fakemon of my own. to rival those of this coming generation. (first i need to see them new pokemon if they missed a species of animal from our world, like a polar bear, peacock, Lion (since i consider arcanine a canine) eel, etc)

 

[Shorts]

thats right, as a deviant, i could do better. i am not looking forward to the grass type evo but i am still curious as to what gameFREAK will do considering that IMO all the 3rd evo of the starters are cool with the exception of Monferno (imo), Meganium (imo), at a fork with Sceptile. after i finish with the 80+ Advanced Robot Masters i should invent some Fakemon of my own. to rival those of this coming generation. (first i need to see them new pokemon if they missed a species of animal from our world, like a polar bear, peacock, Lion (since i consider arcanine a canine) eel, etc)

Yea, im a deviant too and i know i could do better.

 

[PurpleTop]

I think that they need to make Dry Bowser a character, as well as more sonic characters and pokemonn (namely Hitmonlee/hitmonchan)

 

[Big-Cat]

Rats, I want to add some custom music to Brawl but I don't want to do anything to void my warranty. I don't get all the Smash Workshop babble... Is it really to much to ask from the developers next time to allow us to stream music off of an SD card? Hackers can do it, but paid developers can't? If that is to much trouble why not include some sort of downloadable Nintendo music system?

A neat idea for general Wifi matches would be for "golden CD's" to drop onto the field and reward whoever picks one up the ability to download a new track. Or Nintendo could just pump one out every now and then similarly to how custom stages and videos are distributed except differently. I want my Melee Fourside theme back.

There's a way to hack the Wii without actually hacking it for Brawl. There's apparently some exploit in the Stage Builder that will let you upload the codes into the game and thereby letting you have custom music. Anyway, paid developers can definitely do it as you could have custom music in Excite Truck.

Still, custom music needs to be an automatic feature on the system just like the XBOX 360.

I doubt they would do something like "golden CDs". Nintendo being Nintendo would no doubt milk this for all its worth by making you pay for this stuff. And then to make things worse, people are going to upload the music online for people to put on their SD cards which would mean Nintendo shot themselves in the foot. Obviously, music DLC would be a gigantic mistake if you had to pay for it.

 

[Starphoenix]

There's a way to hack the Wii without actually hacking it for Brawl. There's apparently some exploit in the Stage Builder that will let you upload the codes into the game and thereby letting you have custom music. Anyway, paid developers can definitely do it as you could have custom music in Excite Truck.

Still, custom music needs to be an automatic feature on the system just like the XBOX 360.

I doubt they would do something like "golden CDs". Nintendo being Nintendo would no doubt milk this for all its worth by making you pay for this stuff. And then to make things worse, people are going to upload the music online for people to put on their SD cards which would mean Nintendo shot themselves in the foot. Obviously, music DLC would be a gigantic mistake if you had to pay for it.

Musical DLC is by far the most likely of any DLC to occur, just look to Youtube for the boat load of "this track should have been in Brawl" videos. Don't think this doesn't escape Nintendo's eye, yet developers are not going to use up other valuable disc space just so we can have an 800 song soundtrack. The SD card solves that problem, they get more time to utilize on other aspects, and we can (hopefully) have all the songs our little hearts desire... That is if you have the cash and space...

I really don't want to have to pay for tracks. If they are going to make me pay then I better have the option to put them on an Ipod. :/

 

[Shorts]

Musical DLC is by far the most likely of any DLC to occur, just look to Youtube for the boat load of "this track should have been in Brawl" videos. Don't think this doesn't escape Nintendo's eye, yet developers are not going to use up other valuable disc space just so we can have an 800 song soundtrack. The SD card solves that problem, they get more time to utilize on other aspects, and we can (hopefully) have all the songs our little hearts desire... That is if you have the cash and space...

I really don't want to have to pay for tracks. If they are going to make me pay then I better have the option to put them on an Ipod. :/

Whats the point of downloadable tracks? I mean i like brawls musical selection as is, and if im going to have to pay for music, It better be something i REALLY like. So unless Lady Gaga is going to be in SSB4, I say no go for downloadable music.

 

[Big-Cat]

Those videos are part of the reason why I want to have the custom music option. Unless they pull an iTunes on us like you said, Music DLC would be a very bad idea. They might as well put up on the Super Smash Bros. website a free ZIP file of the new music and let us be on our merry way and use them from custom music to being used as a prop in a satanic ritual.

 

[Starphoenix]

Whats the point of downloadable tracks? I mean i like brawls musical selection as is, and if im going to have to pay for music, It better be something i REALLY like. So unless Lady Gaga is going to be in SSB4, I say no go for downloadable music.

The point is so the next time I have a match, it can be set to the tune of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS5G2pGHDOw

We are only talking about video game music, and Nintendo specific at that. Third party tracks could be messy legally, even though the series may already cameo in the game.

 

[Shorts]

The point is so the next time I have a match, it can be set to the tune of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS5G2pGHDOw

We are only talking about video game music, and Nintendo specific at that. Third party tracks could be messy legally, even though the series may already cameo in the game.

I like the theme, i really do. But it just seems like a lot of effort for theme music. But thats just my lil old opinion

 

[Starphoenix]

I like the theme, i really do. But it just seems like a lot of effort for theme music. But thats just my lil old opinion

It is not just for the theme silly, but for MANY different music. That theme was just an example.

 

[Pieman0920]

I still am completely opposed to a custom soundtrack, or at least one where you import music externally.

Anyways, the new starts aren't that bad really, though I am a bit peeved that for the 5th time, the grass starter is a reptile. It doesn't really matter all that much though, since its unlikely that these guys will actually be playable. We'll almost certain get one or two as a pokeball pokemon, though its a bit too early to say which one, or what they would do.

 

[Starphoenix]

I still am completely opposed to a custom soundtrack, or at least one where you import music externally.

Mainly we are talking about DLC, as in extra musical tracks being distributed by Nintendo.

 

[Pieman0920]

Probably won't happen without a price. Miyamoto has been talking about that, or so I hear. If anything gets a price tag added onto it, it'd be that or extra costumes.

 

[Starphoenix]

Probably won't happen without a price. Miyamoto has been talking about that, or so I hear. If anything gets a price tag added onto it, it'd be that or extra costumes.

I'd rather have music. If they were to charge for it it better be in packs and not individually.

 

[Big-Cat]

Mainly we are talking about DLC, as in extra musical tracks being distributed by Nintendo.

Those videos are part of the reason why I want to have the custom music option. Unless they pull an iTunes on us like you said, Music DLC would be a very bad idea. They might as well put up on the Super Smash Bros. website a free ZIP file of the new music and let us be on our merry way and use them from custom music to being used as a prop in a satanic ritual.

I still say this would work better. I don't understand why there are people so opposed to custom music. Nintendo's still going to churn out the music either way.

 

[Starphoenix]

I still say this would work better. I don't understand why there are people so opposed to custom music. Nintendo's still going to churn out the music either way.

It probably would be better, but like we have all been discussing Nintendo will probably make us pay for more tracks. With that they would not include a feature to upload our own songs so that they can keep a monopoly on expanded services. People would sooner upload Stone Tower Temple onto an SD card from their PC versus paying for it.

Just remember, it's all about the money.

 

[Big-Cat]

It probably would be better, but like we have all been discussing Nintendo will probably make us pay for more tracks. With that they would not include a feature to upload our own songs so that they can keep a monopoly on expanded services. People would sooner upload Stone Tower Temple onto an SD card from their PC versus paying for it.

Just remember, it's all about the money.

I understand, but you also have to consider that they can't make money off of everything without hurting public relations.

 

[SmashChu]

The point is so the next time I have a match, it can be set to the tune of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS5G2pGHDOw

We are only talking about video game music, and Nintendo specific at that. Third party tracks could be messy legally, even though the series may already cameo in the game.

Which is an awesome track.

I understand, but you also have to consider that they can't make money off of everything without hurting public relations.

I can't remember that last time customers got upset because they have to spend money on something. Businesses are not in the business of charity. You have to find a way to pay for the time and labor and resources to make the additional content, so you have to sell it. Added content doesn't come free.

 

[Big-Cat]

I can't remember that last time customers got upset because they have to spend money on something. Businesses are not in the business of charity. You have to find a way to pay for the time and labor and resources to make the additional content, so you have to sell it. Added content doesn't come free.

Still, music DLC, IMO, shouldn't be happening. The only way I could see it working without people complaining is if you have something like a "Super Smash Bros. Bundle" where you get other stuff like stages and items. Otherwise, you're putting up something on DLC that easily be obtainable on the Internet, be it iTunes or on some torrent. At least with the bundle, you're downloading something that can't be used on some other machine.

 

[Arcadenik]

Super Smash Bros. Bundle? Uh.. so how do we put this bundle disc into the next-gen console with SSB4 disc already inside? Unless you are talking about something like Super Street Fighter IV being a upgrade from Street Fighter IV.

Also, I thought of a good Final Smash for Toad today. He could panic and run around in circles as monsters (Spud, Fuzz, and Squeak) from Wario's Woods appear and attack everyone on the stage. The monsters are weak and they are more or less like the Starfy Assist Trophy. But then Wanda appears to assist Toad and she makes bombs fall on the stage and this is what finishes the opponents off. So here's my new Toad moveset:

- B: Iceball (from NSMBWii) - same as before
- Side+B: Toad Kart (from SMK) - same as before
- Up+B: Propeller Block (from NSMBWii) - this replaces my old Propeller Toad move idea so Toad pulls out the Propeller Block to do the same thing my old Propeller Toad move idea did, so he doesn't put on the propeller helmet anymore
- Down+B: Spud (from WW) - this replaces my old Vegetable move idea so Toad randomly pulls out one Spud or a stack of two to five Spuds; thrown Spuds weakly attack by hopping around and can be knocked away with weak attacks so they are basically like the Starfy Assist Trophy; so it is better to have more than one Spud to help Toad out; Toad cannot have more than five Spuds out at the same time so if he pulls out more Spuds, the other ones disappear; for those who want to know, Spuds are basically vegetable-like enemies from Wario's Woods
- Final Smash: Wario's Woods (from WW) - already described above

Now, about the 5th gen starters, they aren't that bad. They look pretty good but I doubt they will be playable in SSB4 anyway. I mean, the original starters are the most popular and the most iconic of all starters that they are practically the faces of the group of starter Pokemon in addition to being some of the faces of the Pokemon franchise. Also, Pieman, it is too early to be speculating about the 6th gen Pokemon for SSB4. That's why the original starters are playable in Brawl. I mean, it will be not for about 5 years before we start seriously discussing the 6th gen and the 5th gen was just announced this year. So for now (not definite but for right now) Zoroark is probably the best choice to represent the 5th gen in SSB4 as a playable character. Personally, I don't really care for the 5th gen as I only like the first two gens and am hoping for Meowth and Mewtwo (BOTH of them) to be playable in SSB4.

 

[Big-Cat]

Super Smash Bros. Bundle? Uh.. so how do we put this bundle disc into the next-gen console with SSB4 disc already inside? Unless you are talking about something like Super Street Fighter IV being a upgrade from Street Fighter IV.

I was talking strictly DLC.

 

[Pieman0920]

It wasn't very necessary to bring that moveset up again Arc. Also while I still say that the iceball should be a side special instead of a neutral special, I must say that the Wario Woods moves are very unlikley, since its such an obscure game. It'd make more sense to just rehash out Peach's move, or at least try to be a little creative with it, and refference the GBA version of SMB2 and have Toad pull out giant turnpis instead. At least that way it has a greater tie into Toad's one big game, which is what you're gonna want to try to do considering how unimportant he is in most other cases. Actually, make the giant turnip his neutral special (don't let him carry it, and give it a large enough charge up time) move the ice ball special to the side special, keep the up special you have there, and make the kart his down special. (Or maybe a spore counter)

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't know about that, Pieman.... X was even more obscure than Wario's Woods and it got music in Brawl. It is even available on the Virtual Console since 2006.

Anyway, control-wise I really don't like pressing down+B to make Toad drive the kart. To me, it makes more sense to do Side+B to make Toad drive the kart because you want to drive in that direction you are pressing the stick to. I mean, you do Side+B to move in that direction with Yoshi's Egg Roll, Wario's Bike, and Sonic's Spin Dash. So, that's why I think it would be more comfortable to do Side+B to drive Toad's Kart than to do Down+B. Because of that, I think it is probably for the best that Toad gets Iceball for his B move. Many characters shoot projectiles with just the B button even though some of those moves were not what these characters were best known for (Zelda's Nayru's Love, Jigglypuff's Rollout, Meta Knight's Mach Tornado, Wario's Chomp) so I don't see why it should be an issue for Toad when it obviously isn't for these characters.

Believe it or not, I thought about being a bit more creative about reusing Peach's Vegetable for Toad's Vegetable move. You know what I came up with? Spud.

The giant vegetables could work... maybe if you hold down the B button after doing Down+B, you charge by struggling to pull out the giant vegetable. So, you get Spuds if you do Down+B but tap the B button but you get giant vegetables if you hold down the B button when you do Down+B??? That way, Toad has more options to defend himself. Spuds for weak but fast projectiles or Giant Vegetables for strong but slow projectiles.

Kuma, okay, and how would the DLC be available for SSB4? Could there be like an online shop like Mega Man 9 and 10 where you buy DLC with your own money (aka Nintendo Points) from the online shop that is available in SSB4?

 

[Big-Cat]

Kuma, okay, and how would the DLC be available for SSB4? Could there be like an online shop like Mega Man 9 and 10 where you buy DLC with your own money (aka Nintendo Points) from the online shop that is available in SSB4?

It depends on how the online is setup. But for all intents and purposes, I'm thinking of just your typical DLC. You just download and pay for it like anything else. There's not a whole lot to say about it.

 

[hyliandeity]

there should be a "classic mode." Not like the current classic mode, but a mode where you could chose between brawl, melee, and 64 graphics. You could also have 64 and melee stages with 64 and melee graphics respectably (even the characters get old graphics back, and new characters get classic graphic remixes). Maybe an 8/16-bit mode would be fun too, or a top-down fighting mode like classic zelda for a simple fighting game.

 

[Starphoenix]

It depends on how the online is setup. But for all intents and purposes, I'm thinking of just your typical DLC. You just download and pay for it like anything else. There's not a whole lot to say about it.

Technically Brawl has DLC currently; it is just limited to custom stages, video replays, and snapshots.

 

[Arcadenik]

It depends on how the online is setup. But for all intents and purposes, I'm thinking of just your typical DLC. You just download and pay for it like anything else. There's not a whole lot to say about it.

Sounds good. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of DLC. But I have concerns, you know, about what the DLC actually are.

For me, I think alternate costumes could be good DLC as long as they are actually the costumes the characters actually dressed in past games. For example:

Mario gets Dr. Mario. Wario gets classic Wario Land overalls. Little Mac gets the pink hooded jacket and sweats. Krystal (not that I want her) gets her original Adventures loincloth. Pokemon Trainer gets his original Red/Blue outfit. These are good examples.

Bad examples would be: Ice Climbers get polar bear and penguin costumes. Ness and Lucas get Paula and Kumatora costumes. You know, lame costume ideas like that. And I don't think that alternate costumes are for everyone and that everyone shouldn't have alternate costumes just for the sake of having alternate costumes.

I'm thinking extra parts for the Stage Builder mode would be excellent as DLC. I imagine them as coming together in sets. For example, the Mario set would include the ? Block, the Brick Block, the Warp Pipe, and Music Note Block and so on. The Zelda set would include the traps and fire-breathing statues from Zelda 1 and Beamos and so on. You could even mix it up and create a stage with Mario's ? Blocks and Zelda's fire-breathing statues.

You know what? DLC could be all right with me if they are really unnecessary and optional and are actually Nintendo content and not made-up stuff. So they are just fun little extras like alternate costumes, extra Stage Builder parts, and music. Nothing major like extra characters and extra stages because they should be readily available on the game disc from the beginning and they do affect the gameplay a lot unlike the trivial stuff like alternate costumes and so on.

Still, it would be better if all these stuff were available as unlockables in the game disc from the beginning so we don't need DLC in the first place. That's what Mega Man 10 should have done. Unlock Bass by clearing the game with both Mega Man and Proto Man. Unlock the Endless mode by clearing the game with Bass. But no, we have to pay more for these optional stuff.

Actually, you know what? Maybe we don't really need DLC if they are just unlockables that are readily available on the game disc. So why do we need DLC again? I mean, the only valid reason I can think of why we need DLC is to download a program from Nintendo to fix bugs/glitches in SSB4.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sounds good. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of DLC. But I have concerns, you know, about what the DLC actually are.

For me, I think alternate costumes could be good DLC as long as they are actually the costumes the characters actually dressed in past games. For example:

Mario gets Dr. Mario. Wario gets classic Wario Land overalls. Little Mac gets the pink hooded jacket and sweats. Krystal (not that I want her) gets her original Adventures loincloth. Pokemon Trainer gets his original Red/Blue outfit. These are good examples.

Bad examples would be: Ice Climbers get polar bear and penguin costumes. Ness and Lucas get Paula and Kumatora costumes. You know, lame costume ideas like that. And I don't think that alternate costumes are for everyone and that everyone shouldn't have alternate costumes just for the sake of having alternate costumes.

The problem with alternate costumes is that if you give them to some characters, you pretty much have to do them for everyone else as well. Some characters, as mentioned earlier, have no other costumes to go for.

Technically, you'd be better off creating original costumes. Also, you run into the issues of how this works with online play. What if I'm fighting someone that didn't buy the DLC? What Capcom did that was nice was that the costumes were locked away. This meant that the person without the DLC would have their game's code extract the model for him/her to fight against.

I'm thinking extra parts for the Stage Builder mode would be excellent as DLC. I imagine them as coming together in sets. For example, the Mario set would include the ? Block, the Brick Block, the Warp Pipe, and Music Note Block and so on. The Zelda set would include the traps and fire-breathing statues from Zelda 1 and Beamos and so on. You could even mix it up and create a stage with Mario's ? Blocks and Zelda's fire-breathing statues.

Totally agree with this.

Actually, you know what? Maybe we don't really need DLC if they are just unlockables that are readily available on the game disc. So why do we need DLC again? I mean, the only valid reason I can think of why we need DLC is to download a program from Nintendo to fix bugs/glitches in SSB4.

What I said earlier explains why they may have DLC locked away on the disc.

One possible solution to that though, would be to release a free patch to all players that puts the data, albeit locked, into their game.