[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Shorts]

The ghost in my house is acting upi again :S thats why im back on! I cant be alone!
Speaking of dead rising, in all likelyhood, do you picture mewtwo showing up in SSB4?

 

[Arcadenik]

What do you mean? You have a ghost? Your place is haunted?

Anyway, Kuma, I disagree. I don't think you have to completely make up alternate costumes just so everyone can have alternate costumes just because you gave alternate costumes to a few characters. Wario was the only one who got an alternate costume in Brawl and it worked fine and actually made sense for him to have that specific alternate costume. I don't see the logic behind why we have to give everyone made-up alternate costumes just because a few characters have actual alternate costumes.

 

[Shorts]

What do you mean? You have a ghost? Your place is haunted?

Yes, it is haunted. There hasnt been any activity for about.... six years. Now its back. :/

Anyways, I still want to hear opinoins on mewtwos return?

 

[Starphoenix]

Yes, it is haunted. There hasnt been any activity for about.... six years. Now its back. :/

Anyways, I still want to hear opinoins on mewtwos return?

I love how you express that so calmly, it's just a ghost. No big deal... >_>'

On Mewtwo I would say he has a 50/50 chance. I REALLY want to see him return, but I won't deny that the more generation of Pokémon we see adds competition for space within the Smash universe. Still he has the upper hand as he is still popular within the Smash and Pokémon community.

 

[Shorts]

I love how you express that so calmly, it's just a ghost. No big deal... >_>'

Ive lived with it since i was ten. So im used to it. Im pretty sure it doesnt want to kill me. Im almost seventeen now. And Im still alive.

Mewtwo? DO you think/want him to return from the "grave"?

 

[Starphoenix]

Ive lived with it since i was ten. So im used to it. Im pretty sure it doesnt want to kill me. Im almost seventeen now. And Im still alive.

Mewtwo? DO you think/want him to return from the "grave"?

Go back to my last post, I had edited it. :|

 

[SmashChu]

Yes, it is haunted. There hasnt been any activity for about.... six years. Now its back. :/

Anyways, I still want to hear opinoins on mewtwos return?

Mewtwo was planned for Brawl way in advance. He had his own victory theme (like most of the characters), and had effects and sounds for his final smash as well as an ending image for classic mode. The idea was to have him and Lucariio, not choosing between the two.

I tend to think that people pit them against each other even though there was no real fight and Mewtwo was planned for the game but likely got cut due to time. Sakurai will likely try to add him back in.

 

[Shorts]

Mewtwo was planned for Brawl way in advance. He had his own victory theme (like most of the characters), and had effects and sounds for his final smash as well as an ending image for classic mode. The idea was to have him and Lucariio, not choosing between the two.

I tend to think that people pit them against each other even though there was no real fight and Mewtwo was planned for the game but likely got cut due to time. Sakurai will likely try to add him back in.

If they bring him back, i hope he gets some new moves. He was sort of hard to be and way too easy to know away for a considerably heavy pokemon.

 

[Big-Cat]

EDIT: SmashChu beat me to it.

Mewtwo could use some new moves, hopefully more psychic moves and less tail moves.

 

[Fatmanonice]

EDIT: SmashChu beat me to it.

Mewtwo could use some new moves, hopefully more psychic moves and less tail moves.

That was definitely the most disappointing thing about Mewtwo in Melee; here is the most powerful pokemon who can easily level cities with his mind alone and... he mostly attacks with his butt?

 

[Shorts]

That was definitely the most disappointing thing about Mewtwo in Melee; here is the most powerful pokemon who can easily level cities with his mind alone and... he mostly attacks with his butt?

I know, he needs some major move changes. I want his power to rival ganons. Not rival pichus

 

[Arcadenik]

Rival Ganon's power? Hmm, I think the reason why Mewtwo was weak is because his special attack stat is very high but his physical attack stat is very low in the game. So that's probably why his A moves are pretty weak and why his strongest move is the Shadow Ball special move...

 

[Cyn]

He also had some of the strongest throws in the game....

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't know about that, Pieman.... X was even more obscure than Wario's Woods and it got music in Brawl. It is even available on the Virtual Console since 2006.

...What does that have to do with anything? X just got music. You could have a song from Wario Woods just fine. But that's all the refference that the game really needs to get.

Anyway, control-wise I really don't like pressing down+B to make Toad drive the kart. To me, it makes more sense to do Side+B to make Toad drive the kart because you want to drive in that direction you are pressing the stick to. I mean, you do Side+B to move in that direction with Yoshi's Egg Roll, Wario's Bike, and Sonic's Spin Dash. So, that's why I think it would be more comfortable to do Side+B to drive Toad's Kart than to do Down+B. Because of that, I think it is probably for the best that Toad gets Iceball for his B move. Many characters shoot projectiles with just the B button even though some of those moves were not what these characters were best known for (Zelda's Nayru's Love, Jigglypuff's Rollout, Meta Knight's Mach Tornado, Wario's Chomp) so I don't see why it should be an issue for Toad when it obviously isn't for these characters.

Hold down B to rev up the kart. When released, it could shoot forward, or be forced to turn by pressing the opposite way. And it would also let the move NOT be like those other moves, at least slightly, since the idea has been done already in not just those characters, but also Jigglypuff, Luigi, and Pikachu to different extents. Honestly you should want to give a bit of originality to such a unispired move. (And none of those moves, besides Zelda's which is founded more in the fact that she had no real moves prior and just got Link's magic, really have the same problem, because they aren't using completely uncharacteristic one-time used items) Heck, the reason that Toad really has no good signature ability to put into that neutral special should be another good indication that he shouldn't be playable, but whatever. >_>

 

[SmashChu]

I doubt we'll Mewtwo get an overhaul. Typically the characters return with the moves from previous games (look at Ganondorf). He may get new ones, but I think he'll have the same actions.

 

[Big-Cat]

I doubt we'll Mewtwo get an overhaul. Typically the characters return with the moves from previous games (look at Ganondorf). He may get new ones, but I think he'll have the same actions.

The thing is, we only have one transition to really base that off of - Melee to Brawl unless you count Luigi. We don't have any established patterns yet. We don't know if overhauls were intended for the clone characters (aside from Falco) or not for Brawl.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Lots of A button moves were changed between 64 and Melee. I'm sure there's a list somewhere, off the top of my head Falcon probably had like 5 moves changed.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well I think Mewtwo would probably keep a good chunk of his old moves, probably about 70% or so at the least. I don't think they'd radically alter him that much, since there aren't many major things that he's done since then. He'd probably keep Shadow Ball and Teleport, but might switch up the other specials, and probably just a few standard moves would be changed. Nothing major I'd assume.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well I think Mewtwo would probably keep a good chunk of his old moves, probably about 70% or so at the least. I don't think they'd radically alter him that much, since there aren't many major things that he's done since then. He'd probably keep Shadow Ball and Teleport, but might switch up the other specials, and probably just a few standard moves would be changed. Nothing major I'd assume.

What's your definition for doing things because he has a lot of stuff he derive from since nearly 10 years ago:

http://serebii.net/pokedex-dp/150.shtml

Note that I haven't used Mewtwo since the RBY days, but Psycho Crusha- I mean Cut looks like it could be a good move for him to get rid of that wonky Confusion and maybe Zen Headbutt for Disable, maybe.

 

[SmashChu]

There were some changes in the clone characters, but most of them kept their movesets from Melee (save a few changes to special moves) and the non-clone characters had very little changes to their move set (Mario was the most drastic as a special move was changed entirely). That's not to say some of Mewtwo moves will be different, but I don't expect an overhaul.

 

[Omega Triforce]

They should put all of Melee's techniques in SSB4 (Wavedashing, Chain Throw, L Cancel, etc..).


Also, they should put new characters, such as Silver, Tails, Knuckles, Megaman, Dry Bones, etc.....

 

[Pieman0920]

Mewtwo has gotten new moves, yes, same as every other Pokemon. That doesn't quite mean that he's really changed much since then. Pikachu has loads of different moves since back in RBY where he got his original moveset from, but he hasn't changed much in regards to Smash. Could Mewtwo have a couple of his newer moves thrown in to replace some of his more underwhelming specials? Yeah sure. But I don't think there has been enough development with him since Melee to radically change his moveset.

What I meant by Mewtwo not doing much would be that in the games he hasn't had a major role outside of the remakes of Red and Green, and in the anime he hasn't don't much of anything either. He kind of dropped off the map.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

My Wishes for this game is that they should include a few more pokemon as playable maybe like a scyther or something. I would also wish that old characters would come back even with new move sets like Roy well he could actually keep his melee moveset considering marths sorta changed from Melee > Brawl. I also Think they should if theyre planning on doing that dumb crap with the assist trophies again make them usless characters that no1 cares about.

I for one was pissed when I thought Lynn and Isaac were gonna be in the game and then found out they made them into usless AT's. Also some secondary characters from games would be interesting to see also from other games. Like maybe Black Shadow, Raichu, Bowser JR. DK JR (even though I know the game was a flop it was still fun) etc. Basically I know theyre Trophies in Smash but they should be playable characters.

I mean I was pretty mad when Sakurai stated that there was gonna be originally 50+ characters in Brawl when it was in development and 3+ 3rd Party characters and then he went back on his word. I mean what we have currently Brawl 40 characters total and 3 of which are transform characters.

P.S. Please bring back the Veterans of Melee hidden roster like Doc,Pichu (even though he hurt himself he was fun)YLink (I hate toon link no offense) and possibly Wall grappling. I still don't understand why Wall Grappling was taken out of the game....

 

[BBQTV]

what i want is for them to give the coins a purpose , not for stuoid trophies only but to but alt costumes

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Pieman

*sigh* here we go again.

The reason "Toad has no good signature ability" as an argument against Toad's inclusion is really similar to the old "but they have no moves!" argument, which is really moot. Peach really doesn't have any signature moves but the spin-off games gave her hearts as her signature symbol. Guess what moves involve hearts? Side+B and Up+A. That's it. Peach using Toad as a shield really is not her signature ability but it is her standard B move. I think you are making up new conditions as to what kind of moves the characters can have and how the moveset should be set up for the characters so you can use these conditions to say "See? That's why Toad shouldn't be playable."

Now on to X and Wario's Woods, you yourself said that the international NES/SNES game was very obscure and used that as a reason why Toad should not get moves based off Wario's Woods. I pointed out that the Japan-only Game Boy game does have music (and a sticker, I forgot to mention this earlier) in Brawl and it was even more obscure than Wario's Woods. I also added that Wario's Woods is more well-known today, especially now that the NES version is available on the Wii's Virtual Console since 2006. My point being? It does not really matter how obscure the game is, it still could get a reference in Smash - in the form of a character, a stage, an item, a move, a trophy, a music theme, or even a sticker.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm not arguing that Toad shouldn't be in based off the fact that he has no signature attacks, but rather just saying that its another thing that should alert you to fact that he's not the type of character for a Smash game. We have had non-fighters in these games, but at the very least, those non-fighters are important in their series, like Captain Falcon or Zelda. But I digress, as the giant turnip idea works well enough to work as a standard special, as Toad actually did it, and it isn't just a random power up that he got in one game. It also ties into that "Toad has super strength" deal you were trying to hammer out earlier.

I don't get exactly what you're trying to get at with X, since its the backwards way or arguing. If you want to prove your point, you don't pick a obscure-er game and say that since it had less than Wario Woods shoudl have more. It would work better to have an obscure-er game that had more and ask for Wario's Woods to have less or equal. Yes X got music, and a sticker, and Wario Woods, while obscure, desrves as much too, but that doesn't mean that it deserves more. And despite it being on the VC, it didn't even get as much as X, now did it? Shouldn't that give you a hint about how obscure it is? (And its not like X could be on the VC anyways)

 

[Goldenadept]

all i want is isaac from golden sun, he'd have such a unique moveset, he wouldnt even have to use his sword as much as other sword users, he could have different types of psynergy and djinn helping him out.
it'd be awesome <3 <3

 

[BBQTV]

what in the world is X?

 

[Goldenadept]

i'm assuming he was talking about megaman X from the X series, not sure though

 

[Pieman0920]

I am quite curious about how they will make Isaac (or his kid from GS3) work, since there's so much for him to pottentially use. Summons, Djinn, giant psychic hand attacks, earth/plant manipulation, and that sword. Its a shame that there's no way to properly represent them in full.

EDIT: X, the old Gameboy game, not the MMX. The game had a remixed song on Lylat Cruise, and had a sticker. Even Arc's not going to say that MMX is more obscure than Wario's Woods, and MMX didn't have a sticker or music anyways.

 

[BBQTV]

disregard this post

 

[BBQTV]

I am quite curious about how they will make Isaac (or his kid from GS3) work, since there's so much for him to pottentially use. Summons, Djinn, giant psychic hand attacks, earth/plant manipulation, and that sword. Its a shame that there's no way to properly represent them in full.

EDIT: X, the old Gameboy game, not the MMX. The game had a remixed song on Lylat Cruise, and had a sticker. Even Arc's not going to say that MMX is more obscure than Wario's Woods, and MMX didn't have a sticker or music anyways.

oh ok, but what the hell is this game?

 

[Goldenadept]

for isaac i think his A moves would be basic sword attacks akin to marth but somewhat slower, just not as slow as ike cause i see him being a middle weight character who's somewhat floaty seeing as he's a fantasy fighter, not even a swordsman

then his B specials could each have an element attached to them. normally he's just an earth adept but if in the animation a djinn showed up or something it'd make sense and be cool. up b could be a geyser, forward b a giant hand etc

obviously his final smash would be ragnarok, castastrophe or something like that.

 

[BBQTV]

for isaac i think his A moves would be basic sword attacks akin to marth but somewhat slower, just not as slow as ike cause i see him being a middle weight character who's somewhat floaty seeing as he's a fantasy fighter, not even a swordsman

then his B specials could each have an element attached to them. normally he's just an earth adept but if in the animation a djinn showed up or something it'd make sense and be cool. up b could be a geyser, forward b a giant hand etc

obviously his final smash would be ragnarok, castastrophe or something like that.

HE COULD BE A ROY CLONE

 

[Goldenadept]

rofl roy is so lame though XD
isaac would destroy the other sword fighters in smash :/ most likely that is

 

[Shorts]

Mewtwo has gotten new moves, yes, same as every other Pokemon. That doesn't quite mean that he's really changed much since then. Pikachu has loads of different moves since back in RBY where he got his original moveset from, but he hasn't changed much in regards to Smash. Could Mewtwo have a couple of his newer moves thrown in to replace some of his more underwhelming specials? Yeah sure. But I don't think there has been enough development with him since Melee to radically change his moveset.

What I meant by Mewtwo not doing much would be that in the games he hasn't had a major role outside of the remakes of Red and Green, and in the anime he hasn't don't much of anything either. He kind of dropped off the map.

Just because a character has "dropped off the map" doesnt make them not important, liked or generally a good candidate. When has Sheik been in a game? Its been over ten years. Mewtwo, regaurdless of new roles, is important. I mean Charazard has never had a role as major as mewtwo and he got in SSBB.

Jesus hasnt starred in any new books lately but people still love him

 

[augustoflores]

@ Pieman

The reason "Toad has no good signature ability" as an argument against Toad's inclusion is really similar to the old "but they have no moves!" argument, which is really moot. Peach really doesn't have any signature moves but the spin-off games gave her hearts as her signature symbol. Guess what moves involve hearts? Side+B and Up+A. That's it. Peach using Toad as a shield really is not her signature ability but it is her standard B move. I think you are making up new conditions as to what kind of moves the characters can have and how the moveset should be set up for the characters so you can use these conditions to say "See? That's why Toad shouldn't be playable."

Now on to X and Wario's Woods, you yourself said that the international NES/SNES game was very obscure and used that as a reason why Toad should not get moves based off Wario's Woods. I pointed out that the Japan-only Game Boy game does have music (and a sticker, I forgot to mention this earlier) in Brawl and it was even more obscure than Wario's Woods. I also added that Wario's Woods is more well-known today, especially now that the NES version is available on the Wii's Virtual Console since 2006. My point being? It does not really matter how obscure the game is, it still could get a reference in Smash - in the form of a character, a stage, an item, a move, a trophy, a music theme, or even a sticker.

i am sorry Golden and BBQTV, i really want to reply to this post, may i have the floor?

Ahem... I am going to level with you i wouldn't have him but if you would, i need more practicality out of the moveset.

the cart. it is best for it not to be side b imo so that it can rev like Sonic's down b. whats he going to do, pull out a cart while running? i love explosions so i would have it crash and blow up the ending recipient. i wouldn't have it do a 180 so a crash'n Burn is just fine with me. i am just saying so we can have a more wide variety of moves that do not directly replicate others abilities i.e Wario's bike, it'd be too similar wouldn't you agree? it could be W. Bike + Sonic Rev Spin + Melee Peach Bomber exp..

That's it. Peach using Toad as a shield really is not her signature ability but it is her standard B move.

sigh... i am aware that Pieman made you say that so i suppose he should read this too.
it is more practical in terms of directional input for a move to BE, not necessarily signatureness, that is why Jigs Pound was moved to side b and Ness's pk fire was moved to side b... to make room for pk Flash. it isn't practical to be moving whilst pk flashing.
Peach has toad... it could be signature because he is her servant, not necessarily based off of her game but mario's endeavors. besides the heart stuff, what else came from super princess peach, huh? i suppose you want her to have a remapping of her moves to mirror super princess peach so there is room for toad to not be constrained by her wouldn't you?


what have i done? no pretend i didn't say that, i still like that moveset... what are you doing gus... dont push submit... no push delete.. no no NOOO!!!!

 

[Goldenadept]

by all means, please keep going you good fellows
sadly isaac is just a pipe dream at the moment but i look forwards to seeing where this argument goes

 

[BBQTV]

by all means, please keep going you good fellows
sadly isaac is just a pipe dream at the moment but i look forwards to seeing where this argument goes

HOLD IT!

he is a little more viable then you think he is, infact he just might get in!

 

[Cyn]

Toad didn't have any special moves in Wario's Woods. Unless you're suggesting running up obstacles is a special.....