[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Shyguytheninja]

They need to have Rick Astley.

That would be epic.

 

[Shyguytheninja]

Epicness.

They need to have Rick Astley.

That would be epic.

 

[Shyguytheninja]

Whoops, sorry, DP.

 

[BBQTV]

don't make me drop then ban hammer MY BOI

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Pieman

So you are saying that because Wario's Woods did not get any content in Brawl but X did, it must mean Wario's Woods is more obscure than X? So you are basically saying that if a Nintendo game did not get any content in Smash, it must be too obscure for Smash and therefore it should not get any representation in the next game at all. I love how your logic works!

The giant vegetable could work. But I think it should take Toad about a second to pull it out of the ground once you tap the B button. Why? Because based on Toad's Brawl trophy, Toad is very strong because he pulls vegetables very fast. So, if he is very fast when he pulls out small vegetables, he should take a bit more time to pull out giant ones. It could work as his B or Down+B move.

@ BBQTV

X is a Japan-only Game Boy game that came out in 1992 (I think) and its music was one of the songs in Lylat Cruise. There was even an update on the Dojo about this one.

@ Shortiecanbrawl

I agree with you about "just because a character has 'dropped off the map' doesn't make them not important, liked or generally a good candidate" and how you used Charizard as an example. Though Charizard was added because Pokemon Trainer was added first (he was the next logical choice after Mewtwo on the Melee poll). The point still remains, specifically Charizard and not Charmander and Charmeleon was added as a playable character because it is the most popular form of the Charmander line.

Because of this, I still think that Toad and Meowth are generally good candidates for SSB4. They used to be important in the early years of their respective series but were "dropped off the map" but they are still popular characters.

@ augustoflores

If Wario can pull out a bike and start riding it while running, I don't see how it is weird for Toad to pull out a kart and start driving it while running. I mean, if it is practical for Wario to ride his bike while running, shouldn't it be practical for Toad to do the same with his kart?

And my kart idea has one big difference from Wario's bike: it jumps. Press the jump button once to make Toad jump with the kart. Press Up+B to make Toad jump higher and spin attack with the kart (referring to the feather item in the first Mario Kart game). Press the jump button twice to make Toad jump off the kart and the kart just continues moving in the direction it was going. Wario's bike doesn't do any of these.

Oh, and my new idea for his Final Smash involves explosions. A lot of explosions for the fans of explosions like yourself would love. Basically it goes like this - Toad starts to panic as monsters from Wario's Woods start swarming the stage and it ends with Wanda appearing and dropping bombs everywhere to blow up the monsters and the opponents off the stages.

I remember when Super Princess Peach first came out in 2005 (I think), there were some fans who wanted Peach to have new specials from that game so 1) she wouldn't have too many made-up moves like her current B, Side+B, and Up+B and 2) so Toad could be playable. The worst reason was the third one where Peach would get SPP moves and Daisy could be added and she gets Peach's old moves.

@ Goldenadept and BBQTV

I think that Isaac is a pipe dream but the new protagonist who looks like Isaac but in different clothes from Golden Sun DS is very likely. I mean, let's look at him...

- he looks exactly like Isaac, only in different clothes
- his pose is exactly the same as the Isaac Assist Trophy in Brawl (implying that this new protagonist is basically an updated Isaac)
- he is very likely going to have the same powers Isaac had in the last two games, meaning it doesn't matter if we get Isaac or the new guy, we still get the Venus Adept protagonist with the same powers anyway

 

[BBQTV]

yeah i remember people saying isaac wouldn't get in but his son/ cuz / brother /whatever the hell he is has a higher chance. you could argue that they made him the same just so people think he's isaac

 

[PF9]

Mewtwo was planned for Brawl way in advance. He had his own victory theme (like most of the characters), and had effects and sounds for his final smash as well as an ending image for classic mode. The idea was to have him and Lucariio, not choosing between the two.

I tend to think that people pit them against each other even though there was no real fight and Mewtwo was planned for the game but likely got cut due to time. Sakurai will likely try to add him back in.

Hopefully there will be enough development time to have all the characters from the first 3 Smash games return as well as all my character/stage/music/etc. ideas be used.

Maybe the Adventure Mode could have Mewtwo and Lucario having a major role with each other (like Fox had with Diddy Kong, etc. in SSE)

 

[Pieman0920]

@ Pieman

So you are saying that because Wario's Woods did not get any content in Brawl but X did, it must mean Wario's Woods is more obscure than X? So you are basically saying that if a Nintendo game did not get any content in Smash, it must be too obscure for Smash and therefore it should not get any representation in the next game at all. I love how your logic works!

The giant vegetable could work. But I think it should take Toad about a second to pull it out of the ground once you tap the B button. Why? Because based on Toad's Brawl trophy, Toad is very strong because he pulls vegetables very fast. So, if he is very fast when he pulls out small vegetables, he should take a bit more time to pull out giant ones. It could work as his B or Down+B move.

You're not that good at reading my posts. Wario's Woods isn't more obscure than X, but using X as an excuse to put in more Wario's Woods content is just backwards, and the fact that it had no content in Brawl should tell you that it is indeed obscure.

...That's what I said in regards to the giant turnips. It'd work better as a standard B in the sense that it wouldn't be pulling out a standard item, but rather simply be automatically thrown after being picked up. It'd be a short range, slightly slow, but fairly strong non-charged projectile, which we don't have many of, as opposed to pulling items out of the ground which we already have with Peach. (And to a slighter extent Diddy, but that doesn't quite matter)

 

[augustoflores]

wario's woods is a puzzle game... i did not know that... Arcade! i just wanted the kart to rev like sonic so i would have put it as down B. it seems like toad would spend a lot of time on his cart wouldn't you think? well that is just imo... notice that in my last post i wrote IMO a lot so i wont get ridiculed. to me, wario being bigger makes more sense for a quick release of his bike, and toad, being of smaller stature, not concerning his strength but solely on his size, would not be seen as practical...in my eyes.
currently, in my mind, i am using the Brawl engine and placing components of toads moveset vs. fighting polygons in battlefield brawl. now using my makeshift brawl engine and my artistic vision of practicality, visually, pulling out a cart of that size... has he been carrying that in a pokeball or something? i used his Toad Spore Block sprite for overall size. it is not visually appealing to pull out a cart over wario pulling out a bike... Please don't tell me that i am wrong, because i obviously am just pulling it from my vision of a makeshift brawl engine and not using SSB4 engine or rather i prefer to call it the Revolution Engine.

i have an idea for a different kind of turnip... he could quickly pull out a normal sized turnip and hurl it like a flail in any direction... though if he gets turnips then that means no kart for down b but does he really need a kart in the first place?
WOAH i didn't notice Pie had the same thing in mind but i still reserve turnips being in the ground so thats a Down B for me.

note: i am not FOR TOAD, i am just trying to help.

Panel De Pon!!!!!

i have been loving this song for a while now ind i want to share in my discovery.
The Dissapearance of Hatsune Niku

 

[Shorts]

I think with the whole toad thing, it comes down to the fact that toad..... I mean, hes toad. We like em, hes cute and fun to be in mario kart. But i really just see Bowser Jr or A character from one of the mario RPG's gettiing in before him.

Toad never really plays cruical parts in story lines of mario games. To where if we look at super mario Galaxy We have Mario and Luigi, with Rozaline looking for peach while fighting of Bowser and his evil sun's army. I just, dont see him ever really break out of his "Im a background character" shell. Maybe if he gets another Playable big title then he will have a better shot. I just truely dont expect him in SSB4.

 

[Goldenadept]

its confirmed that the isaac lookalike in golden sun ds is the direct descendant of isaac, all the characters are
so technically its him son.
hopefully golden sun ds will come out fairly soon and get a decent amount of rep just like the other two did, maybe we'll actually get some merchandise to go along with it this time, it needs to happen!
i need some more golden sun in my smash

 

[Fatmanonice]

I am quite curious about how they will make Isaac (or his kid from GS3) work, since there's so much for him to pottentially use. Summons, Djinn, giant psychic hand attacks, earth/plant manipulation, and that sword. Its a shame that there's no way to properly represent them in full.

-Summons seem a bit much to be part of the basic moveset. Maybe as a final smash they could work.

-Djinn strike me as potential items if anything. Besides, I'd rather see the Venus, Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter Djinn show off all their unique powers on their own instead of one or all of them being used for one character.

-I've always imagined the "hand" attacks as potential grabs. I also imagine that it would be a slow grab (like Link) that would have a range that's even longer than Olimar's. Once the opponent is grabbed, there would be "hand" themed throws.

-Earth attacks seem inevitable. They'd easily be the special moves and maybe the smash attacks. I'm not sure about the plant attacks though. I know they're part of the Venus power but I think the Earth part represents it much better.

-Sword attacks are the basic attacks in the game so, again, this seems inevitable. If anything, these will probably make up a majority of his attacks. My personal wish is that Ragnaorok would be his final smash.

Overall, I believe that Isaac/the GS3 protagonist would be Smash Bros' first sword/magic user. I imagine that he'd play like a mix between Pit and Zelda: quick sword attacks with slow, powerful magic attacks.

 

[SmashChu]

I think with the whole toad thing, it comes down to the fact that toad..... I mean, hes toad. We like em, hes cute and fun to be in mario kart. But i really just see Bowser Jr or A character from one of the mario RPG's gettiing in before him.

Toad never really plays cruical parts in story lines of mario games. To where if we look at super mario Galaxy We have Mario and Luigi, with Rozaline looking for peach while fighting of Bowser and his evil sun's army. I just, dont see him ever really break out of his "Im a background character" shell. Maybe if he gets another Playable big title then he will have a better shot. I just truely dont expect him in SSB4.

Guess you haven't played a lot of Mario games.

 

[Pieman0920]

Outside of Mario Bros 2, he's right. Heck, its only the US version of Mario Bros 2 where they had to scrounge up characters. Basically every other mainline Mario game, there's no real distinct Toad, and the ones that have blue vests and red markings like the main Toad don't have major roles either. SMB just has them telling you that Peach is in another castle, SMB3 had them running minigames, SM64 had them just giving hints around the castle, and after that, the roles of toads were split amongst several distinct toads, such as the case with Toadsworth.

 

[Shorts]

Guess you haven't played a lot of Mario games.

If you count not being Princess Peach as a cruical role, then yes. Hes the most imortant character ever. Look, in the end its a long stretch that he will be playable. So you can show me how wrong i am but in two years we will see.

 

[SmashChu]

Outside of Mario Bros 2, he's right. Heck, its only the US version of Mario Bros 2 where they had to scrounge up characters. Basically every other mainline Mario game, there's no real distinct Toad, and the ones that have blue vests and red markings like the main Toad don't have major roles either. SMB just has them telling you that Peach is in another castle, SMB3 had them running minigames, SM64 had them just giving hints around the castle, and after that, the roles of toads were split amongst several distinct toads, such as the case with Toadsworth.

If you count not being Princess Peach as a cruical role, then yes. Hes the most imortant character ever. Look, in the end its a long stretch that he will be playable. So you can show me how wrong i am but in two years we will see.

He has had a major role in all the 2D Marios save World. He is one of the main 8 characters in the Kart games, playable in Mario Partys and was even a maain character in the TV show. He also started in Wario Woods and is a playable character in New Super Mario Bros Wii, probably the biggest game this generation (and there will be content from this game. It outsold Galaxy in Japan in a month).

 

[Pieman0920]

Toad's role in the 2D Mario games (besides SMB2) are not major unless you count every random NPC as major in mostly any other game. The main 8 Mario Kart thing is fairly flawed as it is, as it changes throughout time. You don't count the original 8 Mario Kart characters as the main 8 characters of a franchise, so you shouldn't do the same for Mario Kart 64 just because you have nostalgia about it. The series evolves and new characters are introduced, and as the series went on, Toad had less and less of a role, and Nintendo chose to instead flesh out his species as various different characters instead of the main one that used to exist. As far as the cartoon is concerned, that's really not an issue, as not only was it nearly 20 years ago, but it also was a cartoon and not a game. I'd understand Arc thinking that the cartoons are a major factor, seeing as he wants Meowth to get in, but do you honestly think that old non-canon show will have an effect? And toads are playable in NSMBWii, but not Toad himself may I remind you. I'm not going to deny content from the game either, but I'd also like to point out that everyone hated the idea of those two toads, though I digress, since this reminds me too much of that Tingle debate.

Anyways, on further news about Pokymanz Black & White, I can't help notice that Zoroark, or however you spell that has an ability that allows him to create illusions of other Pokemon. I can't help but think that something like that may be a good ability to exploit in Smash to give a bit of cameo apperances for certain Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

@Pieman and Shortiecanbrawl: You are forgetting that Toad was the main protagonist in Wario's Wood for the NES and SNES.

Anyway, let's say that Megaman is the 3rd third-party character here. Who do you think is the most likely 4th third-party character?

 

[Adell]

wario woods ain't gonna affect **** on the roster

 

[Pieman0920]

What Adell just said. Wario's Woods is an obscure puzzle game that not many people know about, care about, and never got a sequel. Heck, its only claim to fame is that Toad was the main character, and even still it was named after Wario, its villain.

 

[SmashChu]

Anyway, let's say that Megaman is the 3rd third-party character here. Who do you think is the most likely 4th third-party character?

I doubt there is anyone else. Heck, I even doubt we'll get Megaman or keep the current third party characters.

 

[M@v]

I think sonic will be guaranteed to stay. He's almost like a nintendo character now since he's in so many wii/mario games.(I.e mario/sonic olympics.)

 

[Fatmanonice]

I've brought up this idea several times but what do you guys think of the inclusion of fan made remixes? Nintendo could have a contest and the best 10-20 remixes could be put in the game. I think it would be nice to have the fans more involved in the game when, after all, the series is largely built for the sake of the fans and their interests.

 

[Big-Cat]

You might as well get OCRemix involved and have it done through them. Regardless, I'm all for it.

Maybe they could take it up a notch and include some music by people from OC Remix just like Capcom did with HD Remix in the original music supplied with the game, even though I wasn't found of their renditions of the themes for the four devas save for Balrog and Cammy's was too slow for a fight.

 

[Fatmanonice]

You might as well get OCRemix involved and have it done through them. Regardless, I'm all for it.

That's actually what I was thinking.

 

[Big-Cat]

Good, we're on the same page.

For those of you not familiar with OCRemix, here are some works made by people from there:

http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01661/
http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01828/
http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01188/

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm more of a Willrock fan.

http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01840/

I doubt there is anyone else. Heck, I even doubt we'll get Megaman or keep the current third party characters.

I'm not even going through this again...

 

[Big-Cat]

I just put up some examples, nothing in particular.

 

[Shorts]

Though I agree with what Pieman said, i suggest we just drop the whole toad discussion, chances are we will pick it up again in a few weeks ;P

As for Zoroark, Im actually fond of his unique abilties, it gives him less of a chance to be a mewtwo clone, and even less of a chance to be a Lucario clone. He seems cool enough to be in brawl, but I really want to see some non-bipedial pokemon show up. We have pokemon trainer with ivysaur, and sorta squirtle and pikachu. But Im talking Suicune status. This Pokemon has another appereance, its in black and white. When you trade over this new suicune that will be givin away, it unlocks something in the game. So, I would love to see Suicune join the fray. However, I am quite aware of its unlikelyness. She would have an extremely unique move set. Or at least the potential for one.

As for the third parties, it seems Sakuria doesnt like them too much. I mean, all the legal buisness with the third parties isnt as big of a hastle as it sounds like it would be. Its just Sakurai doesnt like them. I have listed eleven good and some great third party game suggestions. Smash has the potentail to gain up to four third parties, Im sure companies are drooling over slots after seeing what kind of fan-base sonic and snake raked in. Its just that I doubt we will get more then two new third parties. IF THAT.

 

[Adell]

the unholy wars tales of phantasia fighting of the spirit oc remix. BEST OC REMIX EVER!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4k58CjiPlM

 

[rifall]

Speaking for All my friends.

I speak for myself and my friends when I say, I hope final smashes will be more balanced, and require more skill.

We all didn't like the fact that it was so slow, and we all think it's incredibly stupid that so many people want Master Chief and Cloud (from FF7) in the game. But they don't belong there.

I can live without MegaMan, and I think it was really cool having Sonic in Brawl. But they still need to improve moveset qualities. Too many characters have Fsmashes that are too similar (Link and Toon Link, Zelda and Sheik, Flaco Fox and Wolf, Ness and Lucas).

My big idea, which my friends kind of like, is take out boring link, and put in Link from Majora's Mask, and have him be able to switch between his different mask forms (Deku, Zora, Goron, Reg). And his final smash (obviously) would be Fierce Deity Mask. Lolz.

And I'm with anybody who says they should bring back Melee Physics and tactics.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Pieman

Think about it for a bit... Miyamoto doesn't really care much about adding deep and complex storylines in Mario main games, that's for the Mario RPG's like Paper Mario series and Mario & Luigi series. The main games usually have a simple story, and it is always "Bowser kidnaps Peach and Mario comes to the rescue". From the beginning, it is always about Mario coming to rescue Peach from Bowser. The only recurring supporting characters in the Mario main games are usually Luigi, Yoshi, and Toad. Why is Luigi there? Because we need a second character for the second player. Why is Yoshi there? Because he is a gameplay gimmick. Why is Toad there? Because he is a supporting character.

Toad's original role is now divided into several roles, which means if Toad didn't exist we wouldn't have Toadsworth and the Toad Brigade. At the very least, Toad is now the leader of the Toad Brigade as the red Toad. Note that the intro in SMG1 shows the red Toad wearing blue vest while carrying Star Bits with the rest of the Toad Brigade - this implies that the red Toad (the leader of the Toad Brigade) is Toad himself. Toad is not entirely replaced by Toadsworth in the main games. Toadsworth appears mostly in RPG games while Toad appears mostly in main games.

There is a reason why Nintendo of America, publisher of the Nintendo Power magazine, includes Toad as one of Mario's allies along with Luigi, Peach, and Yoshi (Wario and Donkey Kong are considered Mario's frienemies) in the special Mario issue. So, these seven characters plus the villain of the series add up to the Mario Big Eight - Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Wario, and Bowser.

Oh, and by the way, many people hated the two Toads in NSMBWii because they wanted it to be Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad (a la SMB2) or red Mario, green Luigi, yellow Wario, and blue Waluigi (a la Mario Tennis rivalry). Nintendo knows that it would be out of character for Wario to want to rescue Peach for no reason (if Wario is going to rescue Peach, it is likely going to be because there is a reward in for him) and Waluigi just plain sucks and he has no purpose other than being Wario's sidekick in the sports games. And the story is going to be about saving Peach once again, so Peach cannot be playable so all we have left is Toad so we get Blue Toad and Yellow Toad to go with red Mario and green Luigi.

 

[ElPanandero]

Although I don't really care who gets in, I'd like to point IMO Bowser Junior is to bowser, what Luigi is to Mario. He's Bowser's second banana. Toad is more like a third banana, though an extraordinarily supportive third banana.

Meh, I'd prefer Andy over any more Mario characters.

 

[daisythirdeyeW33]

All I'm hoping for in the next Smash Bros. game is that they use powerful graphics to make the game more beautiful. I wanna see my characters in stronger graphics. Imagine fighting in a improved Temple stage with powerful graphics. The fine details in characters, hair movement, flowing clothes, water effects, GRASS!!!

oh man, I just wanna go forwards in time and find out!

 

[Cyn]

Flashy graphics would be nice. As long as it's not at the expense of gameplay or anything else.

 

[eman]

Well I'd like to see Waluigi in SSB4. I don't know why Nintendo didn't put him in...

 

[Pieman0920]

Arc, I think you're mixing up Toad with the race of toads when you say that Toad brought about all those others. The series started off with several different, all identical, toads which carried on to almost all other games. SMB2 had a single one, but that was just NoA screwing around with Doki Doki Panic, and afterwards, the race of toads came back.

The fact that the Mario series doesn't have many characters, and that because of that Toad has a relatively large role, doesn't change the fact that by most other standards, Toad is unimportant. Its just like that friggen Jody Summer argument I had with Toise in that Jody's technical position is important, that doesn't mean that she's important overall because her role is still very minor.

And what are you talking about with Toadsworth? Its been a race of toads for a long time now, unless you stretch out the theory that the red vested Toad Brigade is "the" Toad, but that's still just a fan theory. Toadsworth though has shown up in recent main games for sure, like SMS and NSMB, unlike Toad who hasn't made an official appearance in a main game since...well SMB2.

I don't think Nintendo cares much about the story in Mario to really go into motivations. Remember SM64 DS? Wario was trying to rescue Peach there for whatever reason. Heck, you can easily say that there will be a reward for helping rescue a princess. (I'm neutral on Waluigi, but that type of objective thinking can easily be countered by saying he doesn't suck, and Toad in fact sucks because he's an annoying and useless helper character)

 

[Shorts]

Im not totally against toad (like i am Waluigi >.>) its just i think that a few Mario characters with more major roles should get in before him. Like someone to represent all the mario RPG's. Maybe fawful? And I am a big fan of Bowser Jr being in smash. We all know that. And I would honestly prefer Daisy in before toad. At least when you look at Daisy you know she is Daisy not just a random character from a generic race. The only toads that have their own names are Toadsworth, Toadette and a few others.

So IMO it goes Bowser Jr> (mario rpgs rep) > Daisy > Toad

The Day waluigi gets in smash will be the day i rob a bank

 

[Big-Cat]

Im not totally against toad (like i am Waluigi >.>) its just i think that a few Mario characters with more major roles should get in before him. Like someone to represent all the mario RPG's. Maybe fawful? And I am a big fan of Bowser Jr being in smash. We all know that. And I would honestly prefer Daisy in before toad. At least when you look at Daisy you know she is Daisy not just a random character from a generic race. The only toads that have their own names are Toadsworth, Toadette and a few others.

So IMO it goes Bowser Jr> (mario rpgs rep) > Daisy > Toad

The Day waluigi gets in smash will be the day i rob a bank

As I've said before, this is not a Nintendo congress so we don't need a Mario RPG rep (if anyone, it should be Geno). I'm still for Toad. The whole generic thing is really pointless.

Otherwise, care to explain the Pokemon Trainer and his Pokemon? Heck, in Japanese version, Ivysaur was made to be a girl further implying that there was no connection between Brawl's Pokemon Trainer and all the others in the Pokemon metafranchise.

One of the reasons I want Toad in because I feel that his inclusion along with Bowser Jr. feels right to me. I mean, Toad is one of the characters(or species if you prefer) that has been around since the very beginning. He's been in about every Mario game. You could almost say he should get in on the grounds of perfect attendance.

On a side note, Nintendo pulls a super-special-awesome-ultra-sexy move in Super Mario Galaxy 2:
http://www.nintendoeverything.com/39748/

 

[DekuBoy]

Accidental post. Please ignore.