[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[JOE!]

what tools though?

Her staff? Marth has fast, long ranged, disjoints allready

Magic? Fireballs and crystals both belong in zelda allready

what about her would be "unique" in terms of gameplay, beyond fusing some things allready found on two-three different chars?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Diddy Kong doesn't really do much special; his most outstanding feature is his bananas, and they'd already made it into a regular item anyway.

I probably don't even have to mention Falco and Wolf. Oh, and there's Luigi too.

 

[JOE!]

what do you mean diddy does nothing special?

all his specials and moves (sans aerials) are neat for the way he moves, incorperates damage animations from DKC, etc....

Falco and wolf are both deviations from fox, yes, but you cant really compare wolf to falco outside of Fsmashes

Weegee has shoyruken, 'nuff said

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Curious why "potential uniqueness" would be a factor, since you could make any character into something fresh or a clone.

Also don't understand how "I like the character, they'd be fun" apparently isn't a good enough reason for some people.

 

[flyinfilipino]

what do you mean diddy does nothing special?

all his specials and moves (sans aerials) are neat for the way he moves, incorperates damage animations from DKC, etc....

Falco and wolf are both deviations from fox, yes, but you cant really compare wolf to falco outside of Fsmashes

Weegee has shoyruken, 'nuff said

So why can't Krystal be a neat character for the way she moves and incorporates animations from Star Fox?

Also don't understand how "I like the character, they'd be fun" apparently isn't a good enough reason for some people.

That doesn't use logics! Besides, if I don't like your character, that opinion is already invalid.

 

[JOE!]

Curious why "potential uniqueness" would be a factor, since you could make any character into something fresh or a clone.

Well, would you rather Blaziken be in, but just be a faster/weaker Captain falcon, like ganon is his stronger/slower version....or have Blaziken has his own unique moveset full of kung-fu and stuff?

Also don't understand how "I like the character, they'd be fun" apparently isn't a good enough reason for some people.

Because of this:

"i like Birdo. I think birdo would be fun to play as, seeing as it'd be at best a transexual clone of yoshi"

 

[flyinfilipino]

Well, would you rather Blaziken be in, but just be a faster/weaker Captain falcon, like ganon is his stronger/slower version....or have Blaziken has his own unique moveset full of kung-fu and stuff?

Toise is saying that "potential uniqueness" or "lack of potential" is not the best argument to include/exclude someone because you can give anyone/anything a good or bad moveset. Come on JOE!, it's the MYM mantra!

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Well, would you rather Blaziken be in, but just be a faster/weaker Captain falcon, like ganon is his stronger/slower version....or have Blaziken has his own unique moveset full of kung-fu and stuff?

I'm talking about POTENTIAL uniqueness. It's meaningless because you could make any newcomer a clone or something new. But you're saying Krystal wouldn't be a good character because she could share a few traits with other characters, as if that's suddenly a problem.

Also clones aren't inherently bad, even if some people hate the concept.

Because of this:

"i like Birdo. I think birdo would be fun to play as, seeing as it'd be at best a transexual clone of yoshi"

Doesn't matter if Kuma gets off to her design or if he just plays her in Assault or whatever. You asked why he wanted her in, he said "I like her" and that's the only reason anyone ever needs.

If some dude said that about Birdo, it'd be perfectly acceptable, even if they figured he'd be a Yoshi clone.

 

[Big-Cat]

Doesn't matter if Kuma gets off to her design or if he just plays her in Assault or whatever. You asked why he wanted her in, he said "I like her" and that's the only reason anyone ever needs.

Who told you that?!

Just kidding, but seriously, "I want X because I like X." should be enough for anyone. Heck, I can still apply that to Kumatora and Capt. Syrup. They might not get in anytime soon, but that doesn't change the fact that I still want them in.

 

[Arcadenik]

True, Kuma, it is no secret that I like Toad, Meowth, Dixie Kong, Tingle, and Duck Hunt Dog and I would love to see them playable in SSB4 because I think they would bring something new to the game and they would be interesting and fun to play as. I guess they are my top five most wanted characters. I also would like to play as Little Mac, Takamaru, Muddy Mole (Mole Mania), Starfy, and a Venus Adept (either Isaac or the new protagonist).

As for third party characters who are actually on Nintendo consoles even though I know that Mega Man is the only one who is extremely likely, I still would love to play as Simon Belmont, Prince of Persia (Sands of Time version), Amaterasu (Okami), and Pac-Man (he has arms and legs, deal with it).

 

[BBQTV]

if i want x because i like x is whats going on im doing i dont want x because i dont like x. duck hunt dog ain't getting in and i lol cause you think so/want him

 

[gantrain05]

clones are not a bad thing, and even clones aren't really too much of a clone anymore. i don't consider any of the spacies really clones of each other anymore, in melee yeah...they had pretty much all of the exact same attacks, but they changed alot of them, and while they still share similarities they are their own unique character.

as for 3rd party characters, i'd love to see some castlevania rep and of course megaman. i also think that snake should be removed as there will no longer be any new games featuring snake, theres no reason to advertise lol. i also would like to see some sort of final fantasy character, i don't even care what character, i mean the amount of things squaresoft and square-enix and nintendo have done together is rediculous, they really should rep some square character.

 

[Fatmanonice]

....

why do people wnat krystal in smash again?

there are much more deserving characters...

Like meowth, who was shafted for Jiggs in the original SSB64

Because they can? Also "deserve" is extremelly subjective when it comes to talking about characters because we still don't know what Sakurai's criteria is for picking characters and everyone has their own definition on what makes a character important/worthy.

 

[UltraPuff]

I want to say that there may be a hint of the next smash at this years E3, but it seems doubtful.

Makes me wonder what they would do different, besides adding more characters.

 

[BBQTV]

theirs a whole bunch of things they can do

 

[Arcadenik]

Singling out Duck Hunt Dog again? You still mad he LOL at you when you fail Duck Hunt 20 years ago?

Anyway, I just had an idea for the Adventure Mode. You know how there are worlds of galaxies in Super Mario Galaxy 2? Well, I thought that having worlds of Nintendo locations would be interesting... each world would take place in either a stand-alone universe or an universe partially merged with one or more universes. Examples:

World 1 - Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario
World 2 - Zelda, Tingle, Mysterious Murasame Castle (makes sense to me since it is basically Zelda set in ancient Japan)
World 3 - Kirby, Starfy, Animal Crossing (cutesy settings)
World 4 - Pokemon
World 5 - Metroid, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pikmin, Sin & Punishment (sci-fi settings)
World 6 - Fire Emblem, Golden Sun, Kid Icarus, Panel de Pon (fantasty settings)
World 7 - Mother, Punch-Out!!, Pro Wrestling (America parody settings)
World 8 - Ice Climber, Robot, Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Devil World, Clu Clu Land, Balloon Fight, Excitebike, Joy Mech Fight (NES settings)
World 9 - Wii Sports (secret world)

 

[BBQTV]

Singling out Duck Hunt Dog again? You still mad he LOL at you when you fail Duck Hunt 20 years ago?

the thought of him as a playable character is lmao

 

[Cyn]

I'd rather see Cool Spot as playable before DHD. What would he do? Throw dead ducks, jump, and laugh? Lol.

 

[Arcadenik]

Actually, yes. And much more. But I know you wouldn't even bother reading my moveset for the dog even if I posted them. I know I posted them several times on this thread in the past and the same people would still ask "what would he do? throw dead ducks, jump, and laugh?" a month later.

And yes, the thought of the dog as a playable is LMAO. That's the point of being a joke character. Look at R.O.B. I mean, the very idea of a NES accessory as a fighter? LOL WUT I mean, many fighting games have joke characters and some of them are just downright silly, like that Fighters Megamix for the Saturn where they had a car as a fighter.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I want to say that there may be a hint of the next smash at this years E3, but it seems doubtful.

Makes me wonder what they would do different, besides adding more characters.

Too soon. Sakurai is currently working on a game with Nintendo code-named "Project Sora" and it's not due to be released until sometime in 2011. If anything, the earliest the next Smash Bros would begin development is 2012 and the first we'd probably hear about it is 2013. There are two things we'd have to assume though for this to be accurate: Sakurai is ready to start work on SSB4 (let alone another project) as soon as Project Sora is wrapped up and that Nintendo has released their next major console (Sakurai said that Smash Bros was a one game per console kind of franchise).

Also, Sakurai said that there were a lot of ideas that they weren't able to put into Brawl because of time constraints and there were several things he thought of after the game was released. He too said that if he were going to make another smash game he didn't just want to "add new characters and stages" so he'd undoubtably bring new things to the table with SSB4.

 

[Cyn]

Actually, yes. And much more. But I know you wouldn't even bother reading my moveset for the dog even if I posted them. I know I posted them several times on this thread in the past and the same people would still ask "what would he do? throw dead ducks, jump, and laugh?" a month later.

And yes, the thought of the dog as a playable is LMAO. That's the point of being a joke character. Look at R.O.B. I mean, the very idea of a NES accessory as a fighter? LOL WUT I mean, many fighting games have joke characters and some of them are just downright silly, like that Fighters Megamix for the Saturn where they had a car as a fighter.

I remember. My reply is the same as it was last time: As long as he isn't chosen over a more viable candidate. I still think he'd make a good assist trophy or at least appear in a Duck Hunt themed stage.

Speaking of themed stages, anyone else think a Gyromite stage would be cool?

 

[BBQTV]

Actually, yes. And much more. But I know you wouldn't even bother reading my moveset for the dog even if I posted them. I know I posted them several times on this thread in the past and the same people would still ask "what would he do? throw dead ducks, jump, and laugh?" a month later.

And yes, the thought of the dog as a playable is LMAO. That's the point of being a joke character. Look at R.O.B. I mean, the very idea of a NES accessory as a fighter? LOL WUT I mean, many fighting games have joke characters and some of them are just downright silly, like that Fighters Megamix for the Saturn where they had a car as a fighter.

he could make for an assist trophy

like he could throw ducks that have big knockback and if it touchs you he laughs but he could cover the whole screen and laugh

 

[Arcadenik]

As long as he is not chosen over a more viable candidate? Ah, you mean like this?

I remember that many people said that Olimar and R.O.B. would be better off as Assist Trophies and insisted that Isaac, Lyn, Samurai Goroh, and Ray MK would be perfect as playable characters. Moral of the story: Don't judge a book by its cover.

Seriously though, a lot of people tend to support the characters who have a lot of moveset potential (swords, martial arts, guns, strong and powerful, etc.) and ignore those who have little moveset potential (doesn't fight, weak, no moves, etc.). I am stilll seeing the same thing happening now for SSB4.

People tend to think little of Meowth, Toad, Tingle, Duck Hunt Dog, and others and think so highly of Midna (OMG! she turned into a spider thing and broke through the magic barrier! she must be strong!), Mewtwo (OMG! he is the most powerful Pokemon ever! (the same goes for Blaziken, Deoxys, Gardevoir, and possibly Zoroark)), Bowser Jr. (OMG! he could use his paintbrush and transform into Shadow Mario!), Krystal (OMG! she could use her staff and use her psychic powers!), Geno (OMG! he could shoot lasers and bullets!), etc.

I always wanted a Gyromite stage. Maybe it could involve red and blue pillars that open/close parts of the stage. For example, the red pillars are up when the blue pillars are down, and vice versa. Just look up YouTube for some Gyromite gameplay videos to get some ideas.

 

[BBQTV]

ok

the only people who want Krystal are furrys.

tingle is just no.

 

[Cyn]

Toad and Tingle I could deal with; they have numerous games with abilities to pick from.

ROB is a robot, so they could pretty much take many liberties when making up a moveset. While DHD could easily be a joke character, I personally would rather see the assist trophy version. I'd love a Duck Hunt stage.

As far as a Gyromite stage is concerned, it would be kinda neat (3+ player matches on stock) if knocked out players could control the movement of the hazardous pipes on stage to deal damage.

 

[BBQTV]

knuckle joe for smash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnjygIqvVPY&feature=related

 

[ElPanandero]

@Arcade
While you are right about who gets supported, I don't think it;s primarily because of moveset potential, but rather their appeal. Charscters who do cool things garner more fans than those who don't. Those who get support get more people who need to justify there choice, and thus where we are today.

 

[Shorts]

The reason people like Krystal and Bowser Jr is because they like the character. Its not because they have a lot of move potential. I like Capt. Syrup but its not like she has a plethera of move choices.

Smash just needs a few more females and villians.

three new villains, two more girls.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Interestingly enough, it's gotten to the point where almost every currently existing series only has females or villain/rival-types of characters to offer.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Interestingly enough, it's gotten to the point where almost every currently existing series only has females or villain/rival-types of characters to offer.

Pretty much:

Mario- Complete and, at this point, more characters is just icing on the cake as long as they don't go overboard or chose anyone spectacularly stupid like a goomba.

DK- Dixie and K.Rool are pretty much the two people left here. The franchise has had waning influence in recent years so, if you ask me, it'll probably be lucky to get a new person.

LoZ- Complete if you ask me. The only major reoccuring character not represented is Tingle.

Yoshi-The Mario and Yoshi are virtually one in the same so more characters to represent the Yoshi aspect would be pointless.

Wario- There's a lot of characters who could further represent the Wario Ware franchise but the bigger questions are who and is it necessary?

Metroid- Ridley's pretty much it. It's either him or no one else if you ask me.

Kirby- Complete. You have the three main players and there really isn't the need to add anyone else.

Pikmin- At this time, you have Louie but, if you ask me, is way too similar to Olimar to make for an interesting character.

Star Fox- I used to be all for another Star Fox character but now I'm not sure. Krystal's pretty much it when it comes to potential new characters. The future of franchise is sketchy. There have been a few third party studios who have come forward and said they'd be interested in making a new Star Fox and Miyamoto acknowledges that fans want a new installment but, as of right now, the franchise is on life support. With that being said, does a potentially dead franchise need four characters?

F-Zero- Hasn't had a game since 2004. Probably dead until further notice.

Fire Emblem- Will no doubt be represented by the newest protagonist of the latest game.

Mother- Dead until further notice. Itoi has walked away but there's always the possibly of someone else eventually picking it back up.

Pokemon- Will probably get someone from the 5th generation. (My bet's on Zoroak because he's slowly shaping up to be this generation's Lucario.)

GnW/ROB/Ice Climber/Kid Icarus- Don't need anybody else.

Third Party- At least one new third party character is to be expected.

If you ask me, SSB4 will probably put more emphasis on introducing more franchises to Smash Bros as well as reaching further for interesting, obscure characters.

 

[Shorts]

Fatmanonice: I actually have heard that their is a StarFox game in the making. I stumbled across an article a while back. But it was so long ago that i have no idea if it was from a credible source. Still a rumors a rumor.

Could anyone tell me if this is a nintendo franchise, or a Square Enix frnachise?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Mana

Im curious, the DS has introduced quite a few cool franchises, like Proffesor Layton, and Fossil Fighters. I wouldnt mind seeing either represented with an AT.

Lasty, Sin and Punishment, is it worth a character spot? Star succesor is released both in JP and EU.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Interestingly enough, it's gotten to the point where almost every currently existing series only has females or villain/rival-types of characters to offer.

Asides from Pokemon/Fire Emblem that's the case. Even with looking at an open mindset on candidates for each series on who would be in if you were to go by the only other characters worth ANYTHING on the roster for that series the only one who I can think of doesn't offer being a villain/rival-type is Toad, and I guess so potentially a new Zelda character*

* = Arcadenik, we know you want toad. We get it. Don't give us a 1 page rant lesson on it.

 

[Big-Cat]

Since they already had Bomb-Omb Battlefield in Brawl, they better put the SMG2 version in the next game or there will be hell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3l3xpkAkvA

 

[Fatmanonice]

Since they already had Bomb-Omb Battlefield in Brawl, they better put the SMG2 version in the next game or there will be hell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3l3xpkAkvA

Galaxy 1 and 2 are probably going to get a buttload of tracks in the next game so I wouldn't worry about it.

@shortiecanbrawl:

The Mana franchise is Square Enix.

 

[BBQTV]

Galaxy 1 and 2 are probably going to get a buttload of tracks in the next game so I wouldn't worry about it.

@shortiecanbrawl:

The Mana franchise is Square Enix.

tracks? no, i have a feeling will be getting more then just tracks

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Asides from Pokemon/Fire Emblem that's the case. Even with looking at an open mindset on candidates for each series on who would be in if you were to go by the only other characters worth ANYTHING on the roster for that series the only one who I can think of doesn't offer being a villain/rival-type is Toad, and I guess so potentially a new Zelda character*

FE definitely, but not so much Pokemon.

Here's the list:

* Toad
* Tingle
* Roy (technically a vet)
* New Pokemon (unless Zoroark's supposed to be a villain, or assuming they don't use him AND said alternative is neither feminine nor villainous)
* New FE Lord (assuming they make one and it's not female, which is pretty likely given the track record)


On the other hand, I could name 15 or so characters off the top of my head who are either antagonistic or female. Quite a few of these are pretty strong candidates too. Also Syrup is the only twofer from anything ever.


@Fatman: Not gonna nitpick your list aside from mentioning that a new Wario character would be completely justified.

 

[Pieman0920]

Rabble Rabble Rabble. I'm back and the topic is over somewhere, but I can't quite look at it now. I'm just going to go back and skim Arc's post, and then adjust to anything that has been posted later on.

The two trophies of Toad seem to switch in and out of reffering to a singular and a speicies. For instance, the first one seems to refference the main Toad in the first sentence, and the second two reffer to the species. (Yes, even the third sentence which you say is the singular one. It reffers to them in plurarl, and it is true that multiple ones need to be often rescued. The second trophy never actually goes and says that there is a specific Toad, as it mearly says that the toad shown is one of many. It also makes no special refference to only the main Toad to having that power.

And again, as the race of toads showed up before the main Toad of SMB2 (which again, its not even clear if its really canon) those originals from SMB are the models which every other toad was based on, rather than the one from SMB2.

And honestly Arc, I have played every Mario RPG, and every Mario mainline game. I also know more about F-Zero than Toise does. (Probably) The debate we had there stemed from the point that Jody has done virtually nothing in comparison to most characters who get into Smash, but her role in the F-Zero games is a major one by comparison since she is shown on covers, had an alt costume at one point, and had a chapter in GX. Still that doesn't mean that she deserves to be in Smash, or at least that's what I argued. Toad is somewhat close, in that his "major" roles are really rather worthless, but because the games back then didn't have many roles to fill, people delude themselves into thinking that he's important overall. As it stands though, that was probably a situation that fit Toad more in the past then it does now, since the main Toad is pretty much gone. You can speculate that certain red spotted toads, such as the leader of the Toad Brigade are him, but in the end you're still just grasping at straws.

EDIT: Hey Toise, would you count Samurai Goroh in there? He's sort of a villain, but really just in the sense that Wario is a villain...though that could be considered enough in certain instances.

And this whole "villains & females" thing is exactly the reason why we need to expand into new series, isntead of just trying to milk out that last bits of old ones.

Double EDIT: Oh yeah, since SMG2's OST is being leaked out, I must say that I will need to hunt down Sakurai (or whoever else directs the next Smash) if they don't put in these three tracks-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkBlw28gx8Q&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbMha6hKbNg&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMKoGyh3fBM&

 

[Fatmanonice]

tracks? no, i have a feeling will be getting more then just tracks

Tracks as in music tracks. The Super Mario Galaxy games will do doubt have their own stage, a lot of trophies, etc.

@ Toise:

For Wario, who would you say has more potential when it comes to Wario Ware characters? Like I've said as far back as 2006, Jimmy and Mona are probably the front runners when it comes to new Wario characters.

 

[Big-Cat]

This is a bit of a random question, but which Mario games do you prefer 2D or 3D? I prefer the 3D ones. The 2D ones seem repetitive at times to me because of the whole point A to point B aspect of them.

 

[BBQTV]

Tracks as in music tracks. The Super Mario Galaxy games will do doubt have their own stage, a lot of trophies, etc.

@ Toise:

For Wario, who would you say has more potential when it comes to Wario Ware characters? Like I've said as far back as 2006, Jimmy and Mona are probably the front runners when it comes to new Wario characters.

i know what tracks are