[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[hippochinfat!!]

Hippochinfat,

take a look at the classic controller, then take a look at the DS.

Now, remove the classic controller's analog sticks.
If it works for the console, it'll work for a handheld.

It'll work for a handheld. It'll just have terrible controls.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Yes, Fire Emblem does deserve atleast 1 (if not 2) more characters. It has had 10 quality games (if Olimar's 2 games qualify the series to have one character, then by that logic Fire Emblem deserves 5), 4 of which have been internationally sold.

And Fire Emblem (unlike Poke'mon) has many deserving characters, all of whom have a unique story and importance.

 

[Agi]

It'll work for a handheld. It'll just have terrible controls.

Only if you refuse to learn the new control scheme. If you like the Smash Bros. series, you'll accept what it throws at you.

 

[SirKibble]

I don't know much about Megaman, so I only put him. Any good character suggestions for that series?

Just responding to this part. I think the only other three good options there are as follows:

Zero

Big-time ally to Megaman. He's a constant help to Megaman and a major character throughout the games.

Protoman

Another robot created by Megaman's creator, Dr. Light. He works alone (due to his nuclear core that could go off at any time), but works toward the same goals as Megaman, and often shows up to challenge him and test his skills.

Bass

Sort of an anti-hero in the Megaman games. Bass was created by Megaman's main opponent, Dr. Wily, in an attempt to match Megaman's power with another robot. However, Bass frequently rebels when he feels that Wily is interfering with his plans for Megaman's defeat.


Beyond those three, I don't see many great choices.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

^^ Only if you refuse to learn the new control scheme. If you like the Smash Bros. series, you'll accept what it throws at you.

It'll essentially be an inferior version of the already terrible Wii remote control scheme. Why should I accept something that's completely inferior to what we already have?

It's like people who prefer Melee. Why should they get used to Brawl if they hate it compared to Melee?

 

[Agi]

It'll essentially be an inferior version of the already terrible Wii remote control scheme. Why should I accept something that's completely inferior to what we already have?

You can't play the Wii on a road trip.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

You can't play the Wii on a road trip.

That's like saying COD4 on the DS is better then the 360 and PS3 versions because you can take it on a road trip.

 

[WolfCypher]

Just responding to this part. I think the only other three good options there are as follows:

Zero

Big-time ally to Megaman. He's a constant help to Megaman and a major character throughout the games.

Protoman

Another robot created by Megaman's creator, Dr. Light. He works alone (due to his nuclear core that could go off at any time), but works toward the same goals as Megaman, and often shows up to challenge him and test his skills.

Bass

Sort of an anti-hero in the Megaman games. Bass was created by Megaman's main opponent, Dr. Wily, in an attempt to match Megaman's power with another robot. However, Bass frequently rebels when he feels that Wily is interfering with his plans for Megaman's defeat.


Beyond those three, I don't see many great choices.

Ummm...X?

10chars for mentioning Bass.

 

[darkserenade]

Yes, Fire Emblem does deserve atleast 1 (if not 2) more characters. It has had 10 quality games (if Olimar's 2 games qualify the series to have one character, then by that logic Fire Emblem deserves 5), 4 of which have been internationally sold.

And Fire Emblem (unlike Poke'mon) has many deserving characters, all of whom have a unique story and importance.

Playing fire emblem, I don't like how some characters are important for one chapter, than have no more dialouge unless it is a base conversation or support conversation(still, Fire emblem is one of my favorite series). On pg.199, my fe characters include Marth, Ike,Hector, Roy(for fans, I don't really like Roy),Sothe, Micaiah, and Soren. Also, Considering Marth will probably have his DS remake out by a SSB4, I would like to hear his english voice, if they actually give him one.

 

[SirKibble]

Ummm...X?

10chars for mentioning Bass.

X is Megaman, though. We wouldn't have Megaman and Megaman X. More than likely, we'd get a Megaman that combined those two, as well as Megaman.EXE from the Battle Network games. Plus whatever other Megamans they felt like throwing in.

 

[Agi]

That's like saying COD4 on the DS is better then the 360 and PS3 versions because you can take it on a road trip.

Look, if the next version of Smash Bros comes out on the DS, are you going to refuse to buy it because of the CONTROL SCHEME? No. Likely, as we all will, you will learn the new scheme and come to enjoy it. While I do use the GC controller out of convenience, it is much different when I switch gears to my DS. Kirby: The Amazing Mirror (yes, I still play it) has a Smash power up, and I think it works well, control-wise. I will concede that having the jump button to the left instead of to the right will take some getting used to, but I don't see any problems other than that.

Your move.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Nero, the demon-powered punk joins the Brawl.​

Links​

Nero's Battle Theme

Intro Cutscene

Berial Cutscene

Bael Cutscene

Echidna Cutscene

Agnus Cutscene

Story​

Nero is a mysterious character introduced in Devil May Cry 4. He makes his appearance as an arrogant punk with an affection for his lover Kyrie that borderlines on clingy. Despite that last flaw, Nero's attitude makes him a fresh character for the series, though not nearly as well liked as Dante. Nero's main advantage is his demonic right arm, the Devil Bringer, which allows him to grab enemies, even from a distance. He also uses a fuel-injected sword named Red Queen, and a gun named Blue Rose. The mystery surrounding Nero is his identity. He has multiple rumors surrounding him. He could be the son of Dante's brother, Vergil (and thus Dante's nephew), making him 1/4th demon. He could be an ordinary human cursed with a demonic arm (which is likely also connected to Vergil). Who knows?

Stats​

Height ~ Same as Ike
Nero is almost the same exact height as Dante and Ike.

Width ~ Same as Ike
Again

Weight ~ Below Average
Nero is actually considerably lighter than Dante, weighing roughly the same as Marth.

Movement Speed ~ Above Average
Nero is faster than Dante's human form (who has a below average movement speed), that's for sure, but he's barely above average.

First Jump ~ Below Average
Nero's first jump is a bit worse than Dante's average one, probably due to being more human. On the other hand, this does help him short hop aerials.

Second Jump ~ Great
Nero matches Dante in this area. His second jump is known as the Air Hike, which uses demonic power to boost the character into the air and creates a blue circle (Dante's is red) at their original location for aesthetic purposes. This jump compares to that of Ness/Lucas's second jump.

Falling Speed ~ Below Average
Due to weighing about the same as Marth, Nero also falls at roughly the same speed as him.

Red Queen Reach ~ Great
Nero's sword reaches about as far as Ike's.

Red Queen Priority ~ Great, disjointed
Again, roughly the same as Ike's.

Dodges ~ Amazing
Nero, like Dante, is blessed with many quick and useful dodges. DMC would be impossible without them.

Crouch ~ Yes, Average

Crawl ~ No

Glide ~ No

Wall Jump ~ Yes, once

Wall Cling ~ Yes, 1 second

Wall Run ~ Yes
Nero can run up walls, roughly 3 BF platform lengths upwards before backflipping off of them. This is a good (and very cool) evasive maneuver in walled stages and serves to break Nero out of being chaingrabbed or infinitted against walls (yes, I actually bothered to give the mechanic an application this time).

Specials​

Neutral Special ~ Blue Rose

Nero pulls out his pistol, the Blue Rose, for low beginning lag and fires it. Keep pressing B to fire repeatedly. The firing rate is a little slower than Fox's blaster and deals the same damage as the aforementioned furry laser also having no flinch or hitstun. In addition, Nero has to reload once every 20 shots, a reload taking a full second. Nero's reloading animation is unique. He casts the gun behind him, releasing the bullet caps and removing the back of the gun with the force of the swing, tosses fresh bullets into the air, and swings a second time, miraculously catching the bullets into the ammo slots and replacing the back just like something out of the Matrix.

What advantage does this gun have over Fox's, or even moreso, Dante's guns? This gun can be quickly and readily charged. There are 3 levels of charge, each taking 1/3rd of a second to reach. The first level makes Nero's right arm glow blue and causes the bullet to do 3% damage and some low hitstun. The second level makes Nero's arm glow purple and causes the bullet to do 5% damage and medium hitstun. The last level makes Nero's arm glow red and causes the bullet to do 7% damage, makes the foe fall on their butt for half a second (similar to tripping), and sets them on fire, causing them to take an additional 1% per second for 5 seconds. The charge is storeable.

Much like Dante's guns, when fired in the air, he shots somehow cause Nero to aerial stall for roughly the same duration as Mario's cape. Repeated firing of bullets allows Nero to greatly reduce his falling speed. A fully charged bullet also shoots Nero backwards about a BF platform's length. Unlike Dante's guns, Nero fires straight forward like Lucas instead of diagonally downwards like Ness.

Side Special ~ Snatch/Hell Bound

Nero punches forward with his right arm and it extends a good distance, grabbing the first foe in its way. At no charge, this reaches about 2 BF platforms. At 1/3rd second charge, represented by a more intense blue fire, this reaches 3 BF platforms. At 2/3rd second charge, represented by purple fire, this reaches 4 BF platforms. At full charge (1 second), represented by intense red fire, this reaches half of Final Destination. Grabbed foes are dealt hitstun. If the grabbed foe was equal to Nero's weight or less, they are pulled to him. Otherwise, he is pulled to them. Due to traps or other stage conditions, both have their advantages and disadvantages, of course. Nero can fire this diagonally as well, by using this in the same manner as a diagonally boomerang throw. This move can grab ledges, making for a decent tether recovery. Medium beginning lag but no ending lag.
{5%}

*Note- The grab from this move is not normal. He cannot use his pummels and throws, but can use his attacks instead, making this a superb comboing and mobility tool.

Up Special ~ Wing Talisman

A lesser used item in DMC4. It's used to get around certain areas in a few missions. When Nero presses up special, a blue circle that can best be described as an energy trampoline appears beneath him, rocketing him into the air. This works a LOT like Sonic's Up Special, but the circle remains where it is, ground or air, useable by both friend and foe. It disappears after 10 seconds. Nero can have as many of these up as he likes, allowing for some aerial combo positioning potential, but keep in mind that this has its drawbacks and can only be used once in midair, unless hit, just like a normal Up B recovery. Does not leave Nero helpless.

Down Special ~ Exceed

Nero's Red Queen is a wonderful sword. Gunblades may be cliché thanks to Final Fantasy, but motor swords, on the other hand, are just plain awesome. As you hold Down B, Nero revs up his sword. A spiral gauge that is located around his character portrait (like a circular frame) fills up, the filled up areas being orange and the unfilled being gray. As the gauge becomes more and more full, the motor in Nero's sword becomes louder and louder and the sword starts catching on fire. The effect of this is simple: it super buffs your next sword attack(s). The gauge has 3 levels and there are three levels of exceed attacks. As an example, if Nero's exceed gauge is full (level 3), the next attack he uses is level 3 and the gauge drops to level 2, making Nero's second attack a level 2, and his third attack a level 1. All Red Queen slashes gain a small damage buff, noted below. (A normal attack is level 0.) Each level of the Exceed gauge takes 1 second to build. This charge is, of course, storeable (it wouldn't work otherwise ).

Press A while charging Exceed to push Nero's foes to the ground, impale them with Red Queen, and rev up the motor, allowing Nero to effectively use the foe as a motor skateboard. This drains your Exceed guage at a rate of 1 level per 3 seconds, but deals 5% per second to them and leaves them grounded upon ending. In addition, if you bring the foe to an edge, Nero will kick them off, effectively meteoring (not spiking) the foe off the side, killing at percentages as low as 80%. And who wouldn't want to use this move… it's just plain funny.

*Note- While many slashes are "not affected" by Exceed, even these slashes get a damage buff with Exceed active. Level 1 provides no buff, Level 2 provides a 1% buff, Level 3 provides a 2% buff per slash. These buffs do not drain the Exceed guage.

Normal Attacks​

*Note ~ Neutral A Combos not affected by Exceed.

A, A, A, A ~ Red Queen Combo A

Nero performs two downward slashes, a side slash, then finishes the combo off with an overhead slash as he pounds the ground with Red Queen. The combo has low lag on both ends, with the first three slashes being quick and the last slash having some (but not much) beginning lag. The first few slashes deal great hitstun and the last slash deals decent (kills starting at 180%) forwards knockback. Combos well into other moves, but at higher percentages a Side Special might be necessary to continue some combos properly.
{3%, 3%, 4%, 5%} {Total of 15%}

A, wait, A, Hold A, Release A ~ Red Queen Combo B

Nero performs a single slash then hits the ground in front of him with Red Queen. After hitting the ground the first time, he continues to hit the ground rapidly (same rate as Link's infinite A) while you hold A, then finally plunges the sword into the ground and jerks it back out while slashing the enemy with the back end of Red Queen. This combo is considerably slower. While it has low beginning lag and the individually slashes are quick, the wait must be at least 1/4th second to register. Each hit deals great hitstun with the exception of the infinites. The last hit of this combo deals set forwards knockback (roughly a BF platform).
{3%, 2%x, 5%, 6%} {Total of 14% + 2%x}

A, A, Wait, A, A, A, A ~ Red Queen Combo C

Nero performs the first two slashes of Combo A then adds in two quick slashes followed by three turning slashes. The third A press actually performs two slashes. The last A press finishes with a basic downwards slam identical to combo A's finisher. Typical low starting lag, and just a bit longer than the shortest duration of combo B, including the 1/4th second wait. Each slash deals great hitstun. These rapid slashes can be roll cancelled at any time.
{3%, 3%, 2%, 2%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 2%, 2%, 5%} {Total of 22%}

A, A, A, Wait, A ~ Red Queen Combo D

Nero performs basically the same Red Queen Combo A except the overhead slash at the end is slightly charged for more damage. The last hit of this combo knocks the enemy on their butt, much like a fully charged Blue Rose shot instead of knocking them forwards, allowing Nero great potential combos. Keep in mind, despite the great hitstun, the pause coupled with the beginning lag of the last hit may allow foes to escape. The higher their damage, the more likely the last hit is to connect, making this combo the most useful of the Red Queen Combos late in the foe's stock.
{3%, 3%, 4%, 7%} {Total of 17%}

Dash​

Dash Attack ~ Streak

Nero dashes forward about 2 BF platform's distance, stopping early if a foe is in his way, and slashes all around, hitting on both sides. No lag on the dash forward, but medium beginning lag on the slash, with little to no ending lag. Deals good hitstun and decent forwards knockback (killing as low as 160%).
{6%}
EX Streak Level 1 ~ +1 BF platform max distance , 2 swings (only last deals knockback)
EX Streak Level 2 ~ +2 BF platform max distance , 3 swings (only last deals knockback)
EX Streak Level 3 ~ +3BF platform max distance , 5 swings (only last deals knockback)

Tilts​

Side Tilt ~ Slash

Nero performs a basic horizontal slash with Red Queen. Quick attack with little lag on either end. Deals some hitstun. Very low forwards knockback. While this can be used in rapid succession, it's easy to DI out of, so really use this as a filler hit during combos instead of an "infinite".
{4%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Up Tilt ~ Jump Slash

Nero performs an attack that is identical to Ike's Up Tilt in form, but not in function. It deals a set knockback of about 1 BF platform length upwards, allowing for some short hopped aerial combos. Same lag frames as Ike's Up Tilt, except for almost non-existent end lag.
{5%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Down Tilt ~ Hamstring

Nero performs a swift diagonally downwards sword slash that aims specifically for the foes legs, causing them to trip if it hits. Has no end lag, but it's above average beginning lag limits its usage almost exclusively to combo starting, rather than combo continuing.
{6%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Smashes​

Side Smash ~ Eviscerate

Nero performs a two-handed horizontal slash of Red Queen. Deals great knockback (kills starting at 100%). Low beginning lag, but absolutely hideous ending lag. You had better not whiff this, so you should really only use this as a combo-ender.
{12…27%}
EX Eviscerate ~ Increases knockback, killing at 90% for Level 1, 80% for Level 2, and 70% for Level 3, making this a spectacular killing move.

Up Smash ~ High Roller

Nero performs an uppercut slash (hitting both in front of Nero and above him) that sends his enemy into the air roughly 4 BF platform lengths upwards. Hold down the A button to follow the enemy into the air. Above average beginning lag and no ending lag. A superb ground-to-air combo starter.
{10…25%}
EX High Roller ~ Also hits behind Nero and functions differently, dragging both Nero and his foes up in the air roughly 4 BF platform lengths as he slashes them repeatedly. 3 slashes for Level 1, 5 slashes for Level 2, and 7 slashes for Level 3, with each slash doing 2% damage and good hitstun.

Down Smash ~ Shuffle

Nero starts shuffling around like a boxer, each movement like a mini-side step. While he moves around side-to-side a bit, he returns to his original location upon the smash's end. At the end of each shuffle, he performs a lagless slash of Red Queen that deals 2% damage and locks the foe in place for subsequent slashes. At no charge, Nero shuffles three times. He shuffles five times with 1 second charge, 7 times with 2 second charge, and 10 times with the max charge of 3 seconds. The charge is storeable, helping this attack to be an amazing combo tool. While if any of the slashes hit, foes will be caught in the rest of the hits, if there are no hits (recognized by the last hit missing), Nero suffers horrible end lag, making this very easy to punish if whiffed. He has no ending lag if unwhiffed.
{2%x}
EX Shuffle ~ Adds additional slashes into the mix (not changing the duration or number of shuffles), turning this attack into a real bladestorm. Level 1 adds 3 slashes, Level 2 adds 5 slashes, and Level 3 adds 7 slashes.

Aerials​

Neutral Aerial ~ Roulette Spin

Nero performs two normal horizontal slashes and then rapidly spins his sword around for multiple hits much like Pit's Side Special in hitbox and appearance but more like Pit's Nair in damage, number of hits, escapeability, and knockback.
{3% + 3% + whatever Pit's Nair deals for each hit}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Forward Aerial ~ Calibur

Performs almost exactly like an aerial Dash Attack, but only slashes horizontally in front of Nero rather than on both sides. Deals good hitstun and decent forwards knockback (killing as low as 130%).
{6%}
EX Calibur ~ Adds extra damage and knockback to the slash, complete with fire visuals. Level 1 adds 3% and kills starting at 120%. Level 2 adds 5% and kills starting at 110%. Level 3 adds 10% and kills starting at 100%.

Backward Aerial ~ Scoop

Nero slashes behind him, scooping the foe until they are directly in front of him. This deals good hitstun. Very quick with low lag on both ends. Good for starting unorthodox combos.
{5%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Up Aerial ~ Motor Stab

Nero uses Red Queen's motor to propel himself upwards about a BF platform's length all the while stabbing like Toon Link's Up Aerial. This attack deals good knockback (kills starting at 120%), making it one of Dante's best killing moves. Medium beginning lag and low ending lag. Can be used to aid in recovery if you can grab the ledge with it.
{10%}
EX Motor Stab ~ Adds extra distance and knockback. Each level adds 1 BF platform and takes off 10% from the starting kill percent.

Down Aerial ~ Split

Nero performs a downwards slash all the way to the ground, dragging foes with him. Basically identical to the last hit of Ike's Aether, except with a greater ability to drag foes with you to your death if used as a suicide.
{Same as last hit of Ike's Aether}
EX Split (AKA Double Down) ~ Nero's sword ignites all the way down, causing this attack to deal double the normal damage (even doubles Exceed's passive bonus damage). Nero will also perform a downwards slam of the sword when (and if) he touches the ground, pitfalling struck foes and dealing 7…21% to them (based on Exceed level). Any foes caught in the stall then fall will be struck by the slam.

Grabs/Throws​

Grab ~ Buster

Nero uses his demonic right arm to perform what can only be called an "uppercut grab", the arm greatly increasing in size as he does so. The reach of this is great, as it is between that of a normal grab and a grapple-type grab and even reaches above Nero for that distance. It's also as quick to start as a normal grab. It pays for this with the bad ending lag of a grapple if whiffed. This is also useable in the air, though it will only use Nero's Down Throw.

Hold Grab Button ~ Hold

Nero holds onto the grabbed foe tightly and uses them as a human shield. Nero becomes invincible while performing this, as the human shield takes all damage for him and has super armor. The foe can still escape like they would from the grab, though it's a good bit more difficult now. Useful for multi-person matches, especially doubles matches with Friendly Fire on.

Pummel ~ Face Punch

Nero punches the foe in the face (or closest applicable body part) with his normal arm. Deals 2% with average pummel lag.
{2%}

Forward Throw ~ Mighty Throw

Nero uses his Devil Bringer to throw the foe forward. Deals superb knockback (kills starting at 110%), making it Nero's second best killing throw.
{8%}

Back Throw ~ Flick

Nero moves the grabbed foe behind him with his Devil Bringer. The demon arm's index finger then flicks them away. Kills starting at 100%, making it Nero's best all-around killing throw.
{7%}

Up Throw ~ DAEMON… PAWNCH

Nero tosses the foe a set distance in the air (roughly 5 BF platform lengths) and reels back his Devil Bringer, making a very familiar animation. After Falcon Punch like wind-up, Nero unleashes the mighty fist, dealing huge knockback (kills starting at 66%) if it hits. The problem with this is, the thrown foe can often air dodge out of this unless their percentage is really high (about 180% for lightweights), making this throw's use limited as a killing move. On the other hand, Nero can cancel the punch, allowing him to make use of the foe's airborne distance and the great hitstun dealt by the throw itself.
{30% (punch)}

Down Throw ~ Buster Throw

Nero uses the Devil Bringer to perform a throw unique to the grabbed foe.
Here are a few examples:
Dante ~ Contest of Strength
Nero slams Dante to the ground, but Dante swiftly gets up to his feet. The two demon hunters clash swords several times, ending in Nero pushing Dante away with the Devil Bringer a set distance (half of FD or until he reaches the edge) and deals 25%.
Kel'Thuzad ~ To Be Or Not To Be
Nero removes Kel's skeletal head, holds it in his hand while doing a brief Shakespeare impression and then punches Kel away strongly dealing 15% (kills at 80%), shoving the skull through Kel's chest (TAKE THAT!). Long duration.
Ashencroft ~ Demon Slaying
Nero stabs Ashencroft through the chest three times with his own sword, each stab doing 5% and then launches him away with one last powerful stab, dealing 10% and knockback that kills starting at 100%.

Situationals​

Ledge Attack ~ Foot Plant

Nero leaps forward from the ledge, and kicks just like Snake's Bair (but forward), also having the same stats as the aforementioned attack. (He kicked Dante in the face with this move in Devil May Cry 4).
{Same as Snake's Bair}

Rising Attack ~ Swipe

Nero jumps to his feet and swipes all around with a super-sized Devil Bringer, having the same stats as Ike's Up Smash.
{Same as Ike's Up Smash}

Final Smash​

Nero's Final Smash is Yamato, his answer to Dante's Devil Trigger. He uses Vergil's sword to summon a demon spirit behind him (that is probably Vergil), which slashes at the same time as Nero. This effectively gives all of Nero's attacks two hitboxes. One is his normal hitbox. The second is the spirit's hitbox, which has twice the reach, so if Nero hits normally, he does double his normal damage, though bonus damage from Exceed is not multiplied. While under the effects of Yamato, all of Nero's non Red Queen attacks also have their damage output doubled. Nero is invincible and recovers 1% per second during his Final Smash. Lasts 30 seconds.

Playstyle​

Oh dear, not another combo character from that Lionheart fellow. Fortunately, Nero performs very differently from the Black Knight, and even Dante. Nero's gig is his use of Side Special to draw foes towards him (or him towards foes) to continue combos, and the optional but risky use of Up Special to provide even further freedom.

Unlike Dante, noob Neros can't rely on camping much, due to the fact that his gun produces less damage and he can't use traps to intimidate and stun foes. Instead, noobs to Nero will… well… just be worse versions of the experienced Nero. Not much to really say about that.

Experienced Neros will know how to unleash the combo goodness. While there is a lot of freedom, there are some restrictions, for instance, Nero's throws are exclusively killing moves, with the only possible exception being Up Throw when used correctly, though they are **** good ones. Nero has fewer combo starters than Dante, but more combo finishers. Starting a combo with Nero generally means using one of his A combos, a tilt, Up Smash, Down Smash, or his Dash Attack on the ground or his Nair, Bair, or Dair in the air. Ideally, you will want to finish a combo with F-Smash, Uair, Fair, or a throw. Combo continuing moves are often up to the player, and consist of any of the A combos, a shot (preferably charged) from Blue Rose, a Side Special, Exceed Charge + A, Dash Attack, all tilts but Down Tilt, all aerials but Uair (as using it will end your combo regardless of percentage), and possibly Up Throw (and the only real reason you would want to do that is to include pummels or Hold).

With pre-emptive action, your combos become so much more powerful. Charge the Blue Rose to level 3 so that you can get some nice damage and a knockdown in. Charge the Exceed Gauge to increase your damage and power up certain attacks immensely. Set your "wing talismans" exactly how you want them so that you can use them to knock a foe into the air (sometimes even forcing a KO off the top blastline if done right). Charge your Side Special for max reach. Charge your Down Smash for max damage. All of these actions promote freedom and increase your effectiveness.

Why should I even bother listing combos when I've already told you how to perform them? Use your imagination, or did you already burn all that off in MYM4?

Taunts​

Entry ~ Scarred

Nero paces around a bit upon appearance on the field and shakes his head saying "This match better end soon, or I'm going to be scarred for life." (A reference to the battle with Bael).

Up Taunt ~ Come On!

Nero totally rips off of Captain Falcon.

Side Taunt ~ What'chu Got!?

Nero plants Red Queen into the ground and mocks the foe with the above phrase.

Down Taunt~ Shall We Dance?

Nero bows mockingly while uttering the above phrase.

Victory Poses​

Up Pose ~ Are You Human?!

When all of Neros defeated foes ask him the above question, he looks towards his demon arm and says "Don't ask… d***n thing annoys me all the time."

Side Pose ~ Throwing out the Trash

Nero grabs all the defeated foes with a MASSIVE Devil Bringer and throws them at the camera, breaking it.

Down Pose ~ Taking You Down

Nero sits on top of a stack of church benches and taps Red Queen on his shoulder repeatedly saying "Looks like I've taken you down a few notches."

Alternate Outfits​

While Nero can't pull a Dante and change his age via alternate outfit, Nero can change his outfits secondary color (his primary will always be blue.) His secondary colors include red (default), blue, green, yellow, orange, pink, purple, brown, black, and white.

 

[FAILchion-]

Look, if the next version of Smash Bros comes out on the DS, are you going to refuse to buy it because of the CONTROL SCHEME? No. Likely, as we all will, you will learn the new scheme and come to enjoy it. While I do use the GC controller out of convenience, it is much different when I switch gears to my DS. Kirby: The Amazing Mirror (yes, I still play it) has a Smash power up, and I think it works well, control-wise. I will concede that having the jump button to the left instead of to the right will take some getting used to, but I don't see any problems other than that.

Your move.

If control scheme is the problem, then I think Smash DS should have customizable controls. Shouldn't be too much to ask for. o.o

Edit: The next Fire Emblem character to get in, imo, should be Sigurd, Eliwood, Hector, or Micaiah. Although I'm somewhat reluctant to Micaiah because Fire Emblem would get 2 reps from the same world, whereas Marth gets only himself, and then there's Sigurd/Celice's and Eliwood/Roy's world.

 

[Alunios]

Whoever said that Sheeda had to be implemented... He/She has my grattitude.

 

[darkserenade]

I like all of those characters except for Soren... Then again who does like that emo?


Lyn is much more deserving than Soren.

Soren has wind magic, and notice Ike fights for his friends (plural) and since soren and sothe and micaiah are in, he can justify that now. Also, thank you, SirKibble, I added Zero and Protoman.

 

[Agi]

*cries* but he has wind magic, and notice Ike fights for his friends (plural) and since soren and sothe and micaiah are in, he can justify that now.

Works for me, but throw Lethe in there too. Another female smasher & Fire Emblem Rep.

 

[darkserenade]

Works for me, but throw Lethe in there too. Another female smasher & Fire Emblem Rep.

Lethe? I didn't get to the depth of laguz, but don't you think someone more important should get the part? Like Tibarn, Caieneighis, or Nasaela? If they make a rational roster, no laguz would be in. If they do a dream roster, she might be in. Besides, they would only put her in for fanbase.

 

[Big-Cat]

Or it could be a new character, from a new Fire Emblem. Since Fire Emblem DS is the first game in the series, I actually think Sheeda would be a really great pick.

In fact, she is. Forget everyone else--Sheeda for SSB4!

Can you give me a move set for her? I'd just like to see how she'd work.

Anyway, what do you think of the roster I posted earlier? Do you think it's too much? Note, I swapped out Pico for Goroh, generalized my FE preference, and added a Link alt.

Mario
* Dr. Mario
* Tanooki Mario
* Frog Mario
Luigi
* Mr. L
*Tanooki Luigi
* Frog Luigi
Bowser
*Dry Bones Bowser
Peach
*Daisy
*Rosalina
Geno OR Bowser Jr.


Yoshi

Wario
* Overalls Wario
Captain Syrup
*Retro Captain Syrup

Zelda/Sheik
Link
* Zora Tunic Link
* Magic Armor Link
* FED Link
Toon Link
Ganondorf
Vaati

Samus Aran/Zero Suit Samus
* Dark Suit Samus
* Light Suit Samus
* PED Suit Samus
Ridley

Donkey Kong
*Funky Kong
Diddy Kong
*Dixie Kong
K. Rool
*Capt. K. Rool

Fox
Falco
Krystal
Wolf

Ness
*Ninten
*Ana
*Paula
*Poo
Lucas
*Kumatora
Claus

Pikachu
*Pichu
*Raichu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Lucario
Pokemon Trainer
*Female Pokemon Trainer
* M/F Johto Trainer
* M/F Hoenn Trainer
* M/F Sinnoh Trainer

Kirby
*Waddle Dee
*Waddle Doo
King Dedede
Meta Knight
* Maskless Meta Knight

Captain Falcon
*Black Shadow
Samurai Goroh
Jody Summers

Ice Climbers
Mr. Game and Watch
Sukapon
Takamaru

Pit
Olimar
*Louie
Captain Rainbow
Isaac
Lip
Tom Nook
Ray 01

Marth
*Roy
*Sigurd
One FE Character
Ike
*RD Look

Solid Snake
Sonic the Hedgehog
Megaman

55 characters, 41 alt. models/costumes

 

[darkserenade]

Can you give me a move set for her? I'd just like to see how she'd work.

Anyway, what do you think of the roster I posted earlier? Do you think it's too much? Note, I swapped out Pico for Goroh, generalized my FE preference, and added a Link alt.

Your roster looks solid, And probably the most possible. Seriously, check out mine on pg.199. Anyway, the alt. costumes are a cool idea, espiecally Mr.L (seriously, they shouldn't make him a coward/idiot). If I remember correctly, Sheeda rides a pegasi, so I don't think we'll be seeing her.

 

[lavamage]

I know that I am just jumping in, and I have not read the length of the entire conversation, but from what I have read was that people request more Fire Emblem characters, and claiming many things which, in my opinion, are untrue. Granted, I have only played the Wii version of Fire Emblem, and only for a few hours before a friend of mine stole it and didn't return it for 8 months , but still.

I heard someone claim that Fire Emblem would put forth more unique characters than Pokemon, which in a completely outlandish statement, and even going far as to claim that Fire Emblem deserves the same number of reps as Pokemon. This is outlandish, saying that Fire Emblem, A game being released internationally only in the past 5 years, compared to Pokemon, a series that has been strong for 12 years all around the world, with very, very popular games that sell millions, and even crappy spinoffs that still sell plenty around the world. ANYone who claims that Fire Emblem deserves a similar number of reps in a smash game compared to Pokemon, is pulling on threads of fanboyism. *Not a pokemon fanboy fyi, but I do think FE should have another rep, atleast bring back Roy.

Now, the other point was how FE could have more unique characters than pokemon which, again, is just a silly comment to make. Look at Brawl, look at all of the "human" characters that are in, such as: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Marth, Ike, Samus and multiple others. The fact is, they are only human. While their "specials" can alter based on their games, such as fireballs, or missiles, their standard moves are, in general, the same. Most human characters end up simply using their weapon in different directions, along with punches and kicks. If poeple claim that Hector swining an axe in a few directions is more unique than Pikachu using a tail, and having balls of electricity, among other moves, you are insane. Humans have limits, but fictional charaters, like pokemon, can be very agile and move themselves in ways that humans would never be able to mimic.


Yeay, Fire Emblem deserves another rep, but not more than that. It is not nearly as popular as Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and other franchises that Nintendo owns, and there is a good reson why Pikachu is one of the 4 characters in the opening movie, and Ike (or Marth, since he was in the last game and could have changed from Melee to Brawl graphics) was not.

 

[darkserenade]

I know that I am just jumping in, and I have not read the length of the entire conversation, but from what I have read was that people request more Fire Emblem characters, and claiming many things which, in my opinion, are untrue. Granted, I have only played the Wii version of Fire Emblem, and only for a few hours before a friend of mine stole it and didn't return it for 8 months , but still.

I heard someone claim that Fire Emblem would put forth more unique characters than Pokemon, which in a completely outlandish statement, and even going far as to claim that Fire Emblem deserves the same number of reps as Pokemon. This is outlandish, saying that Fire Emblem, A game being released internationally only in the past 5 years, compared to Pokemon, a series that has been strong for 12 years all around the world, with very, very popular games that sell millions, and even crappy spinoffs that still sell plenty around the world. ANYone who claims that Fire Emblem deserves a similar number of reps in a smash game compared to Pokemon, is pulling on threads of fanboyism. *Not a pokemon fanboy fyi, but I do think FE should have another rep, atleast bring back Roy.

Now, the other point was how FE could have more unique characters than pokemon which, again, is just a silly comment to make. Look at Brawl, look at all of the "human" characters that are in, such as: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Marth, Ike, Samus and multiple others. The fact is, they are only human. While their "specials" can alter based on their games, such as fireballs, or missiles, their standard moves are, in general, the same. Most human characters end up simply using their weapon in different directions, along with punches and kicks. If poeple claim that Hector swining an axe in a few directions is more unique than Pikachu using a tail, and having balls of electricity, among other moves, you are insane. Humans have limits, but fictional charaters, like pokemon, can be very agile and move themselves in ways that humans would never be able to mimic.


Yeay, Fire Emblem deserves another rep, but not more than that. It is not nearly as popular as Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and other franchises that Nintendo owns, and there is a good reson why Pikachu is one of the 4 characters in the opening movie, and Ike (or Marth, since he was in the last game and could have changed from Melee to Brawl graphics) was not.

Alright then, that's your opinion. Pokemon became less and less interesting over the years for me. FE got me because of the weapons and characters. The reason why pokemon is more popular is because they were discussed and advertised more. Besides, who is more cool? An electric mouse or an axe wielder? Anyone who has played fe and pokemon will probably pick fe(if they're not kids,of course). That's all I have to say on that matter.

On another matter, I was reading earlier posts, and some brought up voice acting for adventure mode. Text bubbles would be nice, but at the same time, keep the silent characters silent.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

On another matter, I was reading earlier posts, and some brought up voice acting for adventure mode. Text bubbles would be nice, but at the same time, keep the silent characters silent.

hmm idk,i know some like pikachu wouldnt have VA or anything,but i would like to hear good VAing for yoshi and DK,or even ness & lucas

 

[Chief Mendez]

Can you give me a move set for her? I'd just like to see how she'd work.

Eh, maybe tomorrow, when I'm awake.

Anyway, what do you think of the roster I posted earlier? Do you think it's too much? Note, I swapped out Pico for Goroh, generalized my FE preference, and added a Link alt.

I'm not sure if you were addressing me personally with this, but if you were: no comment.

I've been skipping over every wishlist posted in here for a while now, on policy.

The fans love him and Metal Gear is one of the most innovative and amazing series ever. The replacment would probaly be some stupid **** like Simon Belmont with a cellphone and C4s and other explosives made out of holy water or something just as dumb.

A few things:

1. Metal Gear isn't that innovative.

2. Simon for SSB4 (also you don't know what you're talking about).

3. Please try and keep things civil in here, okay? No need to be so aggravated.

Whoever said that Sheeda had to be implemented... He/She has my grattitude.

Gratitude accepted, and put right up on eBay neatly on my mantle.

I can't believe I didn't think of her earlier, like, when FE DS was first announced as a remake of her game. Three quick reasons she needs to be in--

1. She's a (gasp!) female character who doesn't wear a dress/skintight bodysuit.

2. She's really quite an iconic character, and very important to FE1's plot.

Spoiler

<

3. She's pegasus knight, so the devs would have alot of fun with her moveset (which I'll give a stab at later...maybe.)

Besides, who is more cool? An electric mouse or an axe wielder?

An electric mouse. Seriously, you're not going to win this battle--Pokemon is waaay more popular than Fire Emblem, like it or not. And precedent shows that Pokemon will always be one of, if not the, biggest-represented franchises in Smash, while Fire Emblem languishes with the likes of Mother and F-ZERO--those franchises just aren't well-known enough to warrant huge numbers of reps.

Also, I agree about the speech issue. Voice acting should be very Twilight Princess-y. In other words, text accompanied by lots of indistinct vocalizations.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

i would like to see a different sorta story mode. Like having each character start in their homeland and be brought to a central location for some reason. Like say for the opening scene we see mario and luigi in mushroom kingdom battling bowser and bowser jr. to save peach. Then suddenly a massive spaceship/metorite/other flying object whooshes over head catching everones attention. Then the object crash lands somewhere in the kingdom. The next level is you searching through the mk to find the crash site. And to keep it interesting the map has multiple deadends and the location of the object changes each time you play. And there would be similar openings for each series. And mabye you could choose which side of the story you play as during the adventure mode. Like you could play as the mushroom kingdom gang and see their point of view of the events of adventure mode or play as the loz crew and see their side. Basically i want to see adventure mode expanded to make for more replayability.

reposting my idea because of lack of noticing.

 

[System Failure 333]

I think that almost all characters that were brought in as assist trophies that walk around and physically attack you on stage should be considered for "borderline" addition for SSB4

 

[Pieman0920]

reposting my idea because of lack of noticing.

The idea wouldn't really fly that well, since the multiple paths aspect would get very annoying the longer the Adventure mode is. Think of how many people would be complaining if you had to beat SSE 20 different ways before it was truly done? Very few people would have the patience. In the end, it would be more effort than needed, which result in a part of the game that isn't the main point, and lots of people wouldn't bother doing.

 

[Deleted member]

Playing fire emblem, I don't like how some characters are important for one chapter, than have no more dialouge unless it is a base conversation or support conversation(still, Fire emblem is one of my favorite series). On pg.199, my fe characters include Marth, Ike,Hector, Roy(for fans, I don't really like Roy),Sothe, Micaiah, and Soren. Also, Considering Marth will probably have his DS remake out by a SSB4, I would like to hear his english voice, if they actually give him one.

I can't believe you put Soren and Sothe over the Black Knight. You make me sad.

 

[Nayib_x3]

You know, I may get flamed for this, but wasn't the point of Super Smash Bros to make Nintendo chars fight each other? Why have the 3rd party characters? Not that I didn't like Sonic and Snake, but why don't we hear from someone who wants Nintendo-only? There has to be someone who believes that.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

The idea wouldn't really fly that well, since the multiple paths aspect would get very annoying the longer the Adventure mode is. Think of how many people would be complaining if you had to beat SSE 20 different ways before it was truly done? Very few people would have the patience. In the end, it would be more effort than needed, which result in a part of the game that isn't the main point, and lots of people wouldn't bother doing.

eh, people kept saying that sse was to short, and i just thought that would be a good way to lengthen it.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Besides, who is more cool? An electric mouse or an axe wielder? .

Hmmm...
An electric mouse might not seem THAT cool...

But a fire-breathing dragon might..

Hell even a monster with a plant on it's back that runs around slashing people with vines is kinda cool... We've all seen guys with axes before... Monsters with plants on their backs, electric mice, and fire-breathing dragons are a bit more unique.

You are also forgetting the fact that there are 489 more possabilities... (give or take the rediculous ones)...

 

[Agi]

Hmmm...
An electric mouse might not seem THAT cool...

But a fire-breathing dragon might..

Hell even a monster with a plant on it's back that runs around slashing people with vines is kinda cool... We've all seen guys with axes before... Monsters with plants on their backs, electric mice, and fire-breathing dragons are a bit more unique.

You are also forgetting the fact that there are 489 more possabilities... (give or take the rediculous ones)...

Not to mention a constipated old guy with a sword he refuses to use...

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

My opinionated roster for the fourth installment of Smash.

Note: I'm going to do this in the same format as someone else did earlier, with * next to alt. costumes... good idea! However I don't think that alternate CHARACTERS should be alternate costumes. Give them a unique moveset and their own slot... Example: Peach's costume should not be Daisy, Daisy is a different person. Mario's alt. SHOULD be Dr. Mario. Why? Because Dr. Mario is... still Mario.

Mario Bros.
Mario
*Dr. Mario
*Cape Mario
*Racoon Mario
*Frog mario
(yea I stole someme :/ butI admit it!)

Luigi (sheesh why didn't he get the vacuume like Mario got the FLUDD?)
*Cape Luigi
*Mr. L
*Racoon Luigi
*Frog Luigi

Peach
*Peach-Soccer uniform
*Peach-Baseball uniform

Bowser
*Dry-Bones Bowser (good idea whoever thought of it)
*Soccer uniform
*Baseball uniform

The Legend of Zelda
Link
*Zora outfit
*Shadow/Dark Link (they already had that as a costume...)

Zelda
*Toon Zelda (maybe..idk??)

Ganondorf
*See Zelda but change the name

Toon Link/Some one...else?

Kirby
Kirby
*With Dark Matter eye or whatever it was...

King Dedede
*With Dark Matter eye or whatever it was...

Meta Knight

Pokemon
Pikachu

Jigglypuff

Pokemon Trainer
*Girl
*R/S/E version (girl as well)
*D/P version (girl as well)
Squirtle
*With black glasses/shades
Ivysaur
(with..something)
Charizard
*With Silk Scarf (random?)

Deoxys
*Different forms available. Note: Forms do not change attacks, but do differ in stats.

Mewtwo

Note: I know Pokemon already has more reps than Mario, and that is like a sin in Nintendo's eyes. I just can't think of any more DIRECT Mario characters at the moment.. But when you think about it Yoshi and Wario and co. are all mario characters.....

Yoshi
Yoshi
*Black Yoshi
*White Yoshi
*Soccer uniform...was yoshi in the soccer games?
*Baseball uniform

White Shy Guy (I'm not sure how you'd implement him, but...find a way!)
*Other colored shy guys???

Baby Bowser
*uniforms of any sports games he wasa in

Wario Land/Ware
Wario
*Wario Land costume
*Soccer outfit
*Baseball outfit

Waluigi
*Soccer outfit
*Baseball outfit

Metroid
Samus
*Different suites
*Dark Samus (if she isn't in)

Ridley
*Meta Ridley

Mother/Earthbound
Ness
*In party members OUTFITS... (still Ness though..and doesn't wear girl clothing)

Lucas
*See Ness

Star Fox
Fox

Falco

Wolf

Krystal

Retro
Mr. Game & Watch

Ice Climbers

R.O.B.

Donkey Kong
DK
*Baseball outfit
*Soccer outfit

Diddy
*See above (if he was in)

Tiny
*DK Barrel Blast outfit

King K. Rool
*Captain K. Rool
*Krusha K. Rool
*K. Roolenstein (from DKC3...not sure if that's the exact name...)

Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic
*Dark-spine Sonic
*Fat version Sonic!
*Sonic 'unleashed'...if possible?

Knuckles

Shadow (don't care if he makes it, I just want Knuckles :])

MEtal Gear
Snake

Other Games
Banjo-Kazooie
Gruntilda the Witch
Klungo (prefered OVER Grunty, MAYBE... it'd just be interesting)
Mumbo-Jumbo (maybe...?)

Conker the Squirrel
Rodent the Squirrel (think of it...with his impenatrable armor...he'd actually be a good character...)

Lemme know if I missed any characters!!!

 

[WolfCypher]

Yeah, you missed PIT AND LUCARIO!!!

 

[Agi]

Other Games
Banjo-Kazooie
Gruntilda the Witch
Klungo (prefered OVER Grunty, MAYBE... it'd just be interesting)
Mumbo-Jumbo (maybe...?)

Lemme know if I missed any characters!!!

Mumbo Jumbo definitely. The game could use a true mage. (Ganondorf doesn't count.)

Also, BK's down spec should be to switch between characters, like Pokemon trainer.
(Switch between Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo, and Kazooie. And of course Kazooie alone could glide. = D)

 

[Asteuruxaz2082]

What the?

Fat version Sonic!!? Where did that form come from?

 

[mantlecore77]

I'll put what I agree within the quote...

My opinionated roster for the fourth installment of Smash.

Mario Bros.
Mario
*Dr. Mario
(yea I stole someme :/ butI admit it!)

Luigi (sheesh why didn't he get the vacuume like Mario got the FLUDD?)

Peach

Bowser
*Dry-Bones Bowser (good idea whoever thought of it)

Some of your alternative ideas were good but... soccer and baseball uniforms are a no for me, just because it doesn't seem ethical for SSB. I'm just glad you didn't add Daisy.

The Legend of Zelda
Link
*Zora outfit
*Shadow/Dark Link (they already had that as a costume...)

Zelda
*Toon Zelda (maybe..idk??)

Ganondorf

Toon Link/Some one...else?

On the whole Toon Link/Zelda thing... I think that if they're goiog to have Link have an alternative Toon version, so should Zelda/Sheik as Zelda/Tetra. I can't really see Ganondorf doing it either...

Kirby
Kirby

King Dedede

Meta Knight

Pokemon
Pikachu

Jigglypuff

Pokemon Trainer
*Girl
*R/S/E version (girl as well)
*D/P version (girl as well)
Squirtle
*With black glasses/shades
Ivysaur
(with..something)
Charizard
*With Silk Scarf (random?)

Mewtwo

Note: I know Pokemon already has more reps than Mario, and that is like a sin in Nintendo's eyes. I just can't think of any more DIRECT Mario characters at the moment.. But when you think about it Yoshi and Wario and co. are all mario characters.....

Well, I like Mewtwo coming back too. I also like the alternative costumes. However, I ALSO think that a completely different Pokemon Trainer with 3 different Pokemon would be a good idea... I'm bound to get flamed for thinking that, though.

Yoshi
Yoshi
*White Yoshi

Eh, Shy Guy wouldn't really belong because he's more of a "species" than a "character" in Mario... it'd be like if they put in a Goomba.
Baby Bowser probably wouldn't be that bad but I personally believe he's not that great of an idea.

Wario Land/Ware
Wario
*Wario Land costume

Waluigi

Metroid
Samus
*Different suites
*Dark Samus (if she isn't in)

Ridley
*Meta Ridley

Mother/Earthbound
Ness

Lucas

Star Fox
Fox

Falco

Wolf

Krystal

Maybe Leon Palowski? Thank smashbot226 or something like that for putting that idea in my head .

Retro
Mr. Game & Watch

Ice Climbers

R.O.B.

Donkey Kong
DK

Diddy

King K. Rool
*Captain K. Rool
*Krusha K. Rool
*K. Roolenstein (from DKC3...not sure if that's the exact name...)

The alt. costumes for King K. would be really good ideas! However, Tiny Kong didn't play a major role in the DK series at all so... maybe Dixie Kong? Who appeared in more than 1 game?

Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic
*Dark-spine Sonic
*Sonic 'unleashed'...if possible?

Knuckles

Shadow (don't care if he makes it, I just want Knuckles :])

Knuckles FTW, I'm with you on that... Shadow is a good idea too but I totally dread a clone of Sonic.

Metal Gear
Snake

Other Games

I don't know why I'm just not a big Kazooie fan... it's strange.

But how about Megaman series characters? Geno? Bomberman? Yes...

OVERALL, I'm not trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about more than you... you probably know more than me. But your list was good and balanced and not over-the-edge, or just plain stupid. Adding characters like Daisy or Nintendog would've peeved me.
Good work.

 

[mantlecore77]

Yeah, you missed PIT AND LUCARIO!!!

This too.

10chars

 

[zacharia zako]

here is my dream roster:

everyone in brawl and melee plus:

ridley
Banjoo kazooie
pokemon trainer two ( a female with totadial, bayleef, and tyflosion)
krystal (star fox)
Zant
knuckels
tails
shadow
dry bones
dry bowser
rosalina
waluigi
dixie kong
glover
and after you unlock everyone, master hand!!

that would make a total of 60 characters.. i think

 

[darkserenade]

I can't believe you put Soren and Sothe over the Black Knight. You make me sad.

When the Black Knight revives, I'll notify you.

 

[Zolga Owns]

pokemon trainer with Jirachi, Celeibi, Mew(itt'll never happen but i can hope)

everyone in brawl and melee and Knuckles,Tails, and Shadow.