[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Neo Exdeath]

^If you set your expectations that high, you're bound to be disappointed.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Water Closet

Watch and be amazed (Try skipping to 1:30-ish)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abM-h11H1W8

Forget the projectile, that seismic punch would be perfect for Ganondorf. If implemented like in this video, Ganon can **** in the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZQTCmzDNiU

 

[Arcadenik]

Seems like a reasonable assessment to me.



The move is interesting, but part of me feels it is broken. Instant poison muschroom, at any time. Shrink opponent first, then pound. I like the idea, but I fear of balance.



So, best way to describe it is Luigi's Side B move. could be interesting. Just thinking though, it would help alittle with balance of Neutral B if Poison, Gold and maybe some other mushrooms were on one B move. Still, this would be useful for the character.



I agree with this move.



Seems fine to me also. Looking over the 4 B moves, I would also recommened adding in a move dealing with the toad squad from Super Mario Galaxy. Just because Toad never did it, does not mean he can borrow it. (Thinking of lucas here.)



How about the Star from the paper mario series. Toad pulls out a mega star, which turns him into the retro sprite version. Then he can run around as a Giant 2D toad with improved attack and defense.

Similar to Bowser, but it would fit nicely.

Good point on the Poison Mushroom move. Hmmm... how do I fix this move to make it less broken? For starters, we could change it into the Mini Mushroom since it looks a lot different from the Poison Mushroom but it still works the same way anyway. Also, it should not be spammable like Fox's B move... maybe it could control like Snake's B move where you hold the button to make Toad bring out a Mini Mushroom... move the control stick while releasing the button to make Toad throw the mushroom in different distances (too close, middle, or too far)... and when the Mini Mushroom lands on the ground, it stays still and not move around like the Poison Mushroom would do. That could make it easier for the opponents to avoid Toad's Mini Mushroom. Toad could leave at least two Mini Mushrooms on the stage and if he makes a third one, the first one disappears. Also, Toad should not be immune to his own traps... if he touches one of his mushrooms after he threw it, he should shrink like any other opponents.

As for his Final Smash, here's another suggestion... he could bring in a bunch of generic Toads (or even if its just the Toad Brigade plus Toadette and Toadsworth) and then they all run and jump around back and forth like they are panicking "OH NOES!!1!" while stampeding on the opponents. That would certainly fit all Toads. LOL Smash needs more humor like this.

 

[.WC.]

Forget the projectile, that seismic punch would be perfect for Ganondorf. If implemented like in this video, Ganon can **** in the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZQTCmzDNiU

Ganondorf has so much potential to be an original character that *****. I really hope SSB4 doesn't disappoint.

EDIT: Also, there needs to be a mode in SSB4 where the shields function like they did in ssb64. That is, when your shield breaks, you insta-screen smack. I thought that was awesome as hell

 

[drag0nscythe]

Good point on the Poison Mushroom move. Hmmm... how do I fix this move to make it less broken? For starters, we could change it into the Mini Mushroom since it looks a lot different from the Poison Mushroom but it still works the same way anyway. Also, it should not be spammable like Fox's B move... maybe it could control like Snake's B move where you hold the button to make Toad bring out a Mini Mushroom... move the control stick while releasing the button to make Toad throw the mushroom in different distances (too close, middle, or too far)... and when the Mini Mushroom lands on the ground, it stays still and not move around like the Poison Mushroom would do. That could make it easier for the opponents to avoid Toad's Mini Mushroom. Toad could leave at least two Mini Mushrooms on the stage and if he makes a third one, the first one disappears. Also, Toad should not be immune to his own traps... if he touches one of his mushrooms after he threw it, he should shrink like any other opponents.

Sounds perfect to me. Non moving, smaller shrink time and Toad can run into it. Perfect.

As for his Final Smash, here's another suggestion... he could bring in a bunch of generic Toads (or even if its just the Toad Brigade plus Toadette and Toadsworth) and then they all run and jump around back and forth like they are panicking "OH NOES!!1!" while stampeding on the opponents. That would certainly fit all Toads. LOL Smash needs more humor like this.

I like it. It has a Dedede feel to it, but if the toad's are freaking out on stage with the giant toad ship flying around in a daze. I like it. I can picture it in my head, with everyone running around like they are on fire.

 

[.WC.]

If Toad's mushrooms are going to function like Snake's grenades, will he be able to shield out of them?

 

[Big-Cat]

B - Toad throws a Poison Mushroom. It would be useful to shrink bigger, heavier, and stronger opponents down to his own size. I think it is a brilliant tactic - imagine a small weak lightweight character like Toad could bring bigger, stronger, and heavier characters down to his own size. Talk about evening the battlefield! This is based on the original Super Mario Kart.

As addressed earlier, this is broken, but your idea is an improvement. How about the Poison Mushrooms inflict 3% to anyone who touches them instead?

Side B - Toad uses a Golden Mushroom. It might be used like Ike's Quick Draw where Toad runs really fast and tackles down an opponent like you would do in Mario Kart games when you use a Mushroom to speed and try to bump into another kart to steal their items. It could be used like Luigi's Green Missile when Toad is falling and he is far away from the stage and he needs to get close to the stage... this move could cover long horizontal distances like how you use mushrooms in mid-air in the Mario Kart games. It could balance out Toad's poor jumping ability. He might need this since he would be sent flying from the stage too often due to his lightweight.

I like this idea. How about if the attack is at its strongest at point blank range?

Up B - Toad uses the Propeller Suit. It might be used to balance Toad's poor jumping ability, too... since he wouldn't jump very high and this move would help Toad cover long vertical distances. This move would inflict no damage like Pit and R.O.B.'s recovery moves. This move is based on the Propeller Suit power-up from NSMBWii.

I like. I like.

Down B - Toad pulls out giant Vegetables. In the remake of SMB2, Super Mario Advance, there were giant vegetables. It would demonstrate Toad's superhuman strength when he pulls out giant vegetables out of the ground. I think the vegetables should be about two times Toad's size to highlight Toad's superhuman strength.

Again, I like. I like.

Final Smash - I admit this is hard to come up... maybe something related to mushrooms like Mega Mushrooms to grow too big like Giga Bowser... or getting the blorbs to inflate like Jigglypuff's Final Smash... or something from SMB2... maybe he throws a potion to make the red door appears and he enters Subspace where everything is black and blue and his giant vegetables are replaced with coins and they are as powerful as Bonsly when he throws them at the opponents. Maybe Toad throws the coins like how all the characters throw the Trophy Stand item.

In the event that my super meter idea becomes a reality, I'd like to see something more balanced. I'd like to see the Toad Brigade, featuring Toadette and Toadsworth, dropping off a Star Bomb that's the size of a Smart Bomb explosion. Primarily, you want to attack the opponent into this move.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

big post

See, this is why I can't have arguments with you. This is just like every other argument where you have your own crazy definition of "important" and suddenly the stuff that matters becomes irrelevant in your eyes. And it's unfolding exactly the way I said it would.

Seriously. Watch what happens. I start by posting factual reasons why a character is important, and what's your response? "No, you're wrong, that one doesn't count!" That or you go off on a stupid tangent or completely ignore it. Take a look:


** Jody has a satellite character, John Tanaka. Goroh has Antonio Guster (and Daigoroh I guess) and Black Shadow has Blood Falcon. These are the ONLY satellite characters in the series.

-- You tell me I'm missing some satellite characters. This means you don't know what a satellite character actually IS. Look it up. If you think Draq and Roger or the Arrows count, google the term right now.


** Jody has a Super car in the X expansion. Falcon and Goroh have them too, and all three get alternate outfits. No one else has this, not even Black Shadow.

-- You completely ignore this.


** Jody has a chapter in GX. Goroh, Michael Chain, Deathborne, and kinda Silver Neelsen and (FINE) the stupid staff ghosts from Chapter 9. The story revolves around Falcon and Black Shadow. Everyone not mentioned is an extra.

-- You talk about the Creators and otherwise ignore this.


** Jody has an important role in the anime. Ignoring the new characters (specifically Ryu and Miss Killer), the only characters who matter here are Falcon, Black Shadow, Jody, Goroh, and Zoda. No one else is as important as them. This carries over to the GBA game, except we get Jack Levin and Lisa Brilliant (who seem to be "supporting" Jody and Goroh respectively there).

-- You assume that the anime can't be relevant without Ryu becoming a candidate, despite Ryu ONLY existing in regards to the anime so far. That's like saying "Toad was important in the cartoon show, but if we consider that, then I guess we have to count Oogtar too." It only works if you ignore the games.


** Jody appears on stuff.

-- You go off on a tangent about the Smash 64 ending, how other characters appear on stuff too, and how she only counts because she's a woman (you seem to be obsessed with that).


** Jody is well-liked, popular.

-- You demand that I find a Jody fan club. I'm not doing this because A) you've already shown yourself to be too lazy to look up ANY character's popularity, why should I do it for you? And B) chances are I'd have to show you every nook of the internet before you'd change your mind, and even THEN you'd say something like "oh, well you're ignoring that other characters are popular too!" No **** other characters are popular. Your argument will be like saying Falco isn't popular because other characters have fans too. $5 says your rebuttal to this would be you denying it, then admitting it in the same paragraph without realizing it.


So Jody has all these things going for her. Pretend each bullet point I made up there count as a point. Now compare her "points" to what the other characters have:

Captain Falcon --- a million points
Samurai Goroh ---- 8
Black Shadow ----- 7
Jody Summer ------ 6

Dr. Stewart ------ 2
Zoda ------------- 2
Deathborne ------- 1
Jack Levin ------- 1
Michael Chain ---- 1
Pico ------------- 1
Silver Neelsen --- 1
GP Legend People - 1 or 2

Everyone else ---- 0


The only way things don't add up is if you completely disregard certain things that Jody has going for her, the same things that Goroh and Black Shadow have going for them.

I'm only continuing this debate in hopes that eventually someone else notices all the pretty charts and colors and actually takes interest in this. I don't have to worry about that with any other series. Everyone else is still jacking off to clones and Toad while we have this discussion, but maybe a couple of them will at least glance at one of our posts.

But I've only got so much patience with you. I can only put up with bad analogies and stupid smiley faces and a disregard for facts for so long. Now if I see you do something like focus on my Oogtar analogy instead of talk about the relevance of the anime itself, I won't have any reason to discuss anything with you after this. It'd be a waste of time.

 

[brawlpro]

i hope the online play in ssb4 is wayy better than what brawls' was.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad have small arms that I think he wouldn't be very good at punching. Maybe he would be like Yoshi... fighting by using kicks and headbutts. Toad's mushroom hat looks like its perfect for headbutts and his Kirby-like feet seems suitable for kicks. These could be Toad's A moves.

.WC., I am thinking the Mini Mushrooms could be shielded like any other projectiles. You just need to avoid touching the mushrooms. If Toad threw a mushroom at you and you are not shielding or dodging or jumping out of the way... and it hits you, you would shrink for a few seconds... just long enough for Toad to follow up with a Smash attack to send you flying.

Kuma, I thought about that but I felt it wouldn't showcase what Mini Mushrooms (or Poison Mushrooms) do. These mushrooms don't cause damage. They just shrink you like in Mario games. I mean, the point of this move is to try to shrink opponents down to Toad's level. He's too weak, after all, and he might need those mushrooms to turn the tables around, even if only for a few seconds.

The Golden Mushroom move seems a lot like Luigi's Green Missile. I guess that's the best analogy. Kuma, your suggestion about this move being at its strongest when used at point blank range sounds good. About controlling, could this move be charged like Luigi's Green Missile or does Toad immediately run around like Yoshi's Egg Roll? Personally, I like the charging one. Oh, and I think this move would look amazing if Toad had several golden afterimages behind him when he's running - the afterimages is something like the blue images of Fox when he used his side B, you know what I'm saying?

I suppose you might have to be on your guard when facing Toad. He might be playing mind games and is full of surprises. I mean, his attacks would be weak but his throws are too powerful. He's very small and light but he's very fast. He has poor jumping range but his two recovery moves (Propeller Suit and Golden Mushroom) could cover long distances.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Toad have small arms that I think he wouldn't be very good at punching. Maybe he would be like Yoshi... fighting by using kicks and headbutts. Toad's mushroom hat looks like its perfect for headbutts and his Kirby-like feet seems suitable for kicks. These could be Toad's A moves.

.WC., I am thinking the Mini Mushrooms could be shielded like any other projectiles. You just need to avoid touching the mushrooms. If Toad threw a mushroom at you and you are not shielding or dodging or jumping out of the way... and it hits you, you would shrink for a few seconds... just long enough for Toad to follow up with a Smash attack to send you flying.

Kuma, I thought about that but I felt it wouldn't showcase what Mini Mushrooms (or Poison Mushrooms) do. These mushrooms don't cause damage. They just shrink you like in Mario games. I mean, the point of this move is to try to shrink opponents down to Toad's level. He's too weak, after all, and he might need those mushrooms to turn the tables around, even if only for a few seconds.

The Golden Mushroom move seems a lot like Luigi's Green Missile. I guess that's the best analogy. Kuma, your suggestion about this move being at its strongest when used at point blank range sounds good. About controlling, could this move be charged like Luigi's Green Missile or does Toad immediately run around like Yoshi's Egg Roll? Personally, I like the charging one. Oh, and I think this move would look amazing if Toad had several golden afterimages behind him when he's running - the afterimages is something like the blue images of Fox when he used his side B, you know what I'm saying?

I suppose you might have to be on your guard when facing Toad. He might be playing mind games and is full of surprises. I mean, his attacks would be weak but his throws are too powerful. He's very small and light but he's very fast. He has poor jumping range but his two recovery moves (Propeller Suit and Golden Mushroom) could cover long distances.

Actually, if Toad only has one or two moves that can send people flying at normal size, it would be useful to give him the mini mushroom. He could shrink them down and then his moves would act like normal attacks against a normal player.

I would say, another thing to do with balance is that once someone touches a mini-mushroom, if does not effect what they are doing. If someone is attacking, and hit a mini-mushroom, the attack still happens - continues - etc.

I could just see spamming a shrink animation with toad if one existed.

 

[.WC.]

I'm really liking this Toad move set.

Here's another thought for the poison mushroom attack, though... to prevent it from being useful spam, what about if a player touches a grounded mushroom and shrinks, then proceeds to touch another mushroom, they should revert back to normal size. This way they can't end up getting infinitely shrunken if the Toad wants to spam the hell out of the attack.

Also, aside from the giant vegetables Toad pulls out with his down special, there should be a chance that he pulls out one of the potions, which I believe was mentioned before. Anyway its effects could work similarly to Meta Knight's dimension cape. After being thrown the potion opens up a door. If any player walks inside of it, they're instantly teleported behind their opponents. Good, bad, fixes?

 

[BBQTV]

how does sakurai feel about toad? i think depending on how much of a roll he plays in newsmb will determine if hes in or not that or polls

 

[BierWiser]

From attempts on unlocking my last two characters, Wolf and Jigglypuff, I'd just wanna put in a comment against those super powered items. I know others have said the same, but Final Smash and Dragoon need some adjustments. I've been playing single player modes and have found that almost every other match in Classic Mode seems to begin spawning Dragoon pieces. There's other items that are just as fun, which this interrupts.

Toon Link: Killed me with Final Smash, level trap killed me, killed me with Dragoon, and I got him the fourth time.

Jigglypuff: Killed me with Final Smash, killed me with Dragoon, I got her the third time.

Wolf: I screwed up several times, but one of these deaths was from Wolf getting a Final Smash.

These types of items need to appear much more rarely. With these kinds of items approaching, it makes it seem like a Poke Ball, for example, almost never appears. I like Poke Balls better as an item. Even if you get a Poke Ball, it's not always gonna be a powerful Pokemon. Super items appearing over Poke Ball and other items doesn't seem too balanced.

Some Final Smashes are a little more balanced. Perhaps a Final Smash could just be really damaging rather than certain death. Ice Climbers spawn an ice mountain which continuously hurt opponents, but I never see it kill them. To mention otherwise, I'm never really fearful of Samus's Final Smash.

 

[Cyn]

From attempts on unlocking my last two characters, Wolf and Jigglypuff, I'd just wanna put in a comment against those super powered items. I know others have said the same, but Final Smash and Dragoon need some adjustments. I've been playing single player modes and have found that almost every other match in Classic Mode seems to begin spawning Dragoon pieces. There's other items that are just as fun, which this interrupts.

Toon Link: Killed me with Final Smash, level trap killed me, killed me with Dragoon, and I got him the fourth time.

Jigglypuff: Killed me with Final Smash, killed me with Dragoon, I got her the third time.

Wolf: I screwed up several times, but one of these deaths was from Wolf getting a Final Smash.

These types of items need to appear much more rarely. With these kinds of items approaching, it makes it seem like a Poke Ball, for example, almost never appears. I like Poke Balls better as an item. Even if you get a Poke Ball, it's not always gonna be a powerful Pokemon. Super items appearing over Poke Ball and other items doesn't seem too balanced.

Some Final Smashes are a little more balanced. Perhaps a Final Smash could just be really damaging rather than certain death. Ice Climbers spawn an ice mountain which continuously hurt opponents, but I never see it kill them. To mention otherwise, I'm never really fearful of Samus's Final Smash.

agreed, that is why i turn those off during gameplay, those items tip the scales too much, and its always my luck that ill almost collect 2 dragoon pieces and then ill die or something and someone else gets them and completes it. that doesnt bother me so much, it just happens which i guess is kind of the point. what i really dont like is how i will beat the hell out of a smash ball then someone will come in and jab it and break it. grrrrr.

anyone in here like harry potter?

 

[Pieman0920]

The problem with having Toad's moves only be normal when the opponent is shrunken down is that everything would revovled around that poison mushroom special, thus probably gimping Toad, since everything revovles around this one thing, which likely would have a time limit. Even if for some reason it was easy enough for Toad to shrink everyone so that he breaks off at normal, that still doesn't change the fact that larger characters would still have the advantage over smaller characters, thus it wouldn't really solve the balance problem.

See, this is why I can't have arguments with you. This is just like every other argument where you have your own crazy definition of "important" and suddenly the stuff that matters becomes irrelevant in your eyes. And it's unfolding exactly the way I said it would.

Importance may be relative, but Jody's importance is minimal at best, and even so doesn't warrent her consideration for another Smash game.

** Jody has a satellite character, John Tanaka. Goroh has Antonio Guster (and Daigoroh I guess) and Black Shadow has Blood Falcon. These are the ONLY satellite characters in the series.

Oh, that's what you meant. Sorry, I thought you said Jody was a satellite character, which she sort of is. Still, you're incorrect in that they are the only satellite characters in the series. For instance Phoenix has QQQ, Beastman has Bio Rex, Samurai Goroh also has Dai Goroh and to a extent Princia. Black Shadow also has Don Genie to an extent. In theory though, Leon could count as the Arrow's satellite character, since he was adopted by them, but then again, there is little interaction if any between them. I'd also say that a bunch of other characters became satellite characters in the anime for Ryu Suzaku, but I'm not really going to go into that. Also I'm not sure if you should really count Blood Falcon there, since he has two people he revolves around, though that could just make him Falcon's too I guess.

-- You tell me I'm missing some satellite characters. This means you don't know what a satellite character actually IS. Look it up. If you think Draq and Roger or the Arrows count, google the term right now.

No, I didn't mean satellite characters in F-Zero, I meant satellite characters in other series that you're disregarding. Remember my argument was that it made no sense to include Jody, yet not include so many other characters. Still you did miss some other satellite characters in there.

** Jody has a Super car in the X expansion. Falcon and Goroh have them too, and all three get alternate outfits. No one else has this, not even Black Shadow.

-- You completely ignore this.

Yes I did, because I didn't think I needed to pay attention to it. The way you worded at first made it like you were saying that she should get in because you liked her outfit there.

** Jody has a chapter in GX. Goroh, Michael Chain, Deathborne, and kinda Silver Neelsen and (FINE) the stupid staff ghosts from Chapter 9. The story revolves around Falcon and Black Shadow. Everyone not mentioned is an extra.

-- You talk about the Creators and otherwise ignore this.

Well what do you want me to say? That because Jody got a chapter where she was a completely useless female character that boosts her chance of getting into a fighting game? Really now, I agree that Jody has more significance in the story than someone like Baba, but that doesn't translate at all into being a viable Smash character.

Also I'd say it revolves more around Deathborne than Black Shadow, but I can see how you would disagree given that BS shows up more, even if he's the flunky. (Also for a technical thing, you didn't list him as getting a chapter, when that could pretty much be argued as Chapter 7)

** Jody has an important role in the anime. Ignoring the new characters (specifically Ryu and Miss Killer), the only characters who matter here are Falcon, Black Shadow, Jody, Goroh, and Zoda. No one else is as important as them. This carries over to the GBA game, except we get Jack Levin and Lisa Brilliant (who seem to be "supporting" Jody and Goroh respectively there).

-- You assume that the anime can't be relevant without Ryu becoming a candidate, despite Ryu ONLY existing in regards to the anime so far. That's like saying "Toad was important in the cartoon show, but if we consider that, then I guess we have to count Oogtar too." It only works if you ignore the games.

Poor analogy given that Toad is more important in his series than Oogtar, while Ryu is more important in his series than Jody. Oogtar is a Scrappy Doo character, while Ryu is the main protagonist and eventual Captain Falcon. In addition, while I wouldn't really count them in the general F-Zero canon, he still has shown up in two games (including the most recent) so he doesn't only exist in regards to the anime....at least not fully.

** Jody appears on stuff.

-- You go off on a tangent about the Smash 64 ending, how other characters appear on stuff too, and how she only counts because she's a woman (you seem to be obsessed with that).

That's really her role though. If you played the games that should be obvious. Plus the fact that her car showed up in the background is about as valid as me saying that Doc Stewart has a good chance because he was on the cover of GX, or how Bio Rex has a shot because his car is on X's cover. (Also, I didn't go off on a tangent about that if you actually read it. I just mentioned what I'm really trying to say here, which you seem to be switching over to me saying Jody has no chance....though she doesn't really. :V)

** Jody is well-liked, popular.

-- You demand that I find a Jody fan club. I'm not doing this because A) you've already shown yourself to be too lazy to look up ANY character's popularity, why should I do it for you? And B) chances are I'd have to show you every nook of the internet before you'd change your mind, and even THEN you'd say something like "oh, well you're ignoring that other characters are popular too!" No **** other characters are popular. Your argument will be like saying Falco isn't popular because other characters have fans too. $5 says your rebuttal to this would be you denying it, then admitting it in the same paragraph without realizing it.

The thing you have to understand here is that I have been browsing F-Zero message boards since before GX, and remember when Smash Boards thought it was going to be as big as Melee and made its own section back there for it. I remember following the anime with the little knowledge I had of how to do such things back when it was airing, which essentially had to scower F-Zero message boards to find any information. For the last 7 or so years, I've never seen much love for Jody's character, and just want to know where you're thinking this is comig from. As I said before, just give me one instance of this, and I'll shut up about it. Still as far as I've ever seen, most people regard her as the same as mostly every other pilot.

List with points

Really, are you Toise? You've never tried to qualify a character's chances by points. What made you change your mind in regards to that?

Really though, most of those "points" which I assume are the things you listed above, are shady at best, and only can be considered if you're absolutley sure that they matter in any regard. In addition, there is no way that some would be equal as others. For istnace, a ship cameo in the background of Captain Falcon's winning picture in Smashs should count at all as much as a main character role, like Ryu's.

I'm only continuing this debate in hopes that eventually someone else notices all the pretty charts and colors and actually takes interest in this. I don't have to worry about that with any other series. Everyone else is still jacking off to clones and Toad while we have this discussion, but maybe a couple of them will at least glance at one of our posts.

They did respond at first Toise, and they said Jody wouldn't be a good pick.

But I've only got so much patience with you. I can only put up with bad analogies and stupid smiley faces and a disregard for facts for so long. Now if I see you do something like focus on my Oogtar analogy instead of talk about the relevance of the anime itself, I won't have any reason to discuss anything with you after this. It'd be a waste of time.

But when someone say something completely stupid, I have to respond, and you're being really bad right now, since you're not giving good reasons. The fact that Jody has (at the very least) two other characters better suited for a role in Smash for her own series, has no ability to fight at all, has a minimal (if at all existant) fanbase, and a relativley small role in the story is not sidetracked by what you're saying here. The fact that you have to rely more on insults, along with the argument itself, indicates that you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to F-Zero.

 

[.WC.]

Okay now, I hate to cut into this pointless argument, but the only thing Jody Summers has to offer smash is female representation. Which doesn't even make a difference.

 

[Pieman0920]

^Exactly.


In any case, peraps instead of it being a poison mushroom, it can be a random type of mushroom that has different effects, that are generally positive for the Toad player, buat times negative. I'd also have to think that there should be some type of start up animation that takes a bit in order to balance it out more.

.....or just not have a poison mushroom special at all, and change it to something else, which I personally think would be better. :V

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Um toise, you're forgetting one thing: To sakurai, sales don't make the biggest bullet point, so chances are in the next smash game that we'd only get one more F-Zero Character (If you want proof: Hello, DK Franchise.) And the easy way to put it is that chances are, Goroh or Black Shadow. If there's to magically be two, the possibility of both isn't out of the question, considering with kirby we have the rival and the anti-hero...Tho with kirby there's even LESS Possibilities outside of F-Zero.

I mean, as I said, chances are we get one new char from F-Zero. Sure, jody may be important, but what makes her more important than goroh or black shadow? Or what makes her different asides from the fact that she's a female (inwhich sakurai stated he wanted more yet adds in only one more girl moveset, keyword:moveset)?

I think that's the point pie is trying to get across.

 

[Pieman0920]

No, the point I was trying to make was that in his initial list he didn't include lots of other characters who have around the same chance, if not more, as Jody, such as Waluigi, Birdo, Skull Kid, Vaati, Micaiah, and quite a few others. It just kind spun off into a debate that went over Jody's chances, which quite frankly are tiny. Anything is theoretically possible, but as it stands, Jody Summers doesn't have much of a chance due to her series, status within said series, competition from other characters in that series, and the fact that she would bring nothing new to Smash other than being the female character from F-Zero.

 

[Big-Cat]

Kuma, I thought about that but I felt it wouldn't showcase what Mini Mushrooms (or Poison Mushrooms) do. These mushrooms don't cause damage. They just shrink you like in Mario games. I mean, the point of this move is to try to shrink opponents down to Toad's level. He's too weak, after all, and he might need those mushrooms to turn the tables around, even if only for a few seconds.

The Golden Mushroom move seems a lot like Luigi's Green Missile. I guess that's the best analogy. Kuma, your suggestion about this move being at its strongest when used at point blank range sounds good. About controlling, could this move be charged like Luigi's Green Missile or does Toad immediately run around like Yoshi's Egg Roll? Personally, I like the charging one. Oh, and I think this move would look amazing if Toad had several golden afterimages behind him when he's running - the afterimages is something like the blue images of Fox when he used his side B, you know what I'm saying?

I suppose you might have to be on your guard when facing Toad. He might be playing mind games and is full of surprises. I mean, his attacks would be weak but his throws are too powerful. He's very small and light but he's very fast. He has poor jumping range but his two recovery moves (Propeller Suit and Golden Mushroom) could cover long distances.

I understand why you want the shrink property, but I'm still concerned about how game changing that is. Look at Diddy's Banana Peels, they aren't as broken as your idea because they only trip and the opponent can use them.

Anyway, Poison Mushrooms can take away HP in the Paper Mario games so it's not out of the ordinary. I'm think these Posion mushrooms are tossed like the Waddle Dee Toss attack and inflict damage with hitstun. This way, Toad can quickly get in with either his Golden Mushroom or by running and pummel.

For the Golden Mushroom, how about if you have to do the attack a number of times to travel a large distance, just like in Mario Kart? Basically, it's a hybrid of Fox Illusion and Green Missle. I also like the afterimage idea. Would give some flashy appeal to Toad.

After thinking about it, in terms of Street Fighter (sorry about the examples, but it works for me), Toad has the rushdown style of Cammy, the speed of El Fuerte, and the strength and jumps of Sagat.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

No, the point I was trying to make was that in his initial list he didn't include lots of other characters who have around the same chance, if not more, as Jody, such as Waluigi, Birdo, Skull Kid, Vaati, Micaiah, and quite a few others. It just kind spun off into a debate that went over Jody's chances, which quite frankly are tiny. Anything is theoretically possible, but as it stands, Jody Summers doesn't have much of a chance due to her series, status within said series, competition from other characters in that series, and the fact that she would bring nothing new to Smash other than being the female character from F-Zero.

Oh god, Pieman, just...

Look, I can only read so many paragraphs of "this doesn't count" or "that doesn't matter," despite the fact that the points I'm bringing up are the ONLY factors into differentiating the characters (aside from being in the original, but that's only because we're not talking about Goroh). I can only write so many paragraphs where I break things down to the most basic levels for anyone to understand.

There's no reason to listen to you on any of this. You think certain characters are satellite characters despite them not being so. You're denying the fact that the designers are giving her special attention over anyone except Falcon, Goroh, and Black Shadow post-GX. You haven't even spelled her last name right so far (but that's just annoying at worst).

And I like how you mention how other people here are "against" Jody in this thread when everyone else is either saying "less likely than Goroh and Black Shadow" (which is obvious) or "shouldn't get in over Micaiah" (who has nothing to do with F-Zero). You know no one here cares about F-Zero and at least half of them are stuck on "we need ____ kind of character."


If you're as familiar with F-Zero boards as you say you are, we wouldn't be having this debate. But whatever, you should know Black_ShadowGX then. Ask him what he thinks, what everyone else thinks. Better yet, ask him what the Japanese think. "Is Jody a main character?" Or alternatively, "who are the main characters in F-Zero?"

Go on, I'll wait.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

For Toad I think his Specials could be:
This is kinda hasty so it can't be that bad but it probably is a little at least.

B Up: Propeller Suit, For the love of Smash make B Ups do damage, PLEEEEEASE. It could hurt people as he spins upward or as he passes or just give him like a Mushroom that makes him glow and go upward (but then again DeDeDe :/) and hurt people.

B: I don't like the Idea of the Mushroom for this so give me sec and I'll get something......Maybe any random item like: Bomb-omb.........Mini/Poison Mushroom......Big Vegetable.......or maybe one item.....idk which though.....

B Side: I guess i'm good with the Golden Mushroom.......I just don't want to think that much right now....

B Down: Something from Mario Party..............As I already said I don't want to think that much right now....

 

[Pieman0920]

Oh god, Pieman, just...

Look, I can only read so many paragraphs of "this doesn't count" or "that doesn't matter," despite the fact that the points I'm bringing up are the ONLY factors into differentiating the characters (aside from being in the original, but that's only because we're not talking about Goroh). I can only write so many paragraphs where I break things down to the most basic levels for anyone to understand.

If you can't take it, then say things that really do count, man. None of your points are very strong, and they are only about saying that Jody has more prominance in her series, when that's not what we're supposed to be talking about. Yes Jody is more important that Ms. Arrow or Princia when it comes to female F-Zero pilots, but that still doesn't make her a likely character. Your list wasn't a top three most likely characters from each series list, but rather your opinion on people who had a shot, and quite frankly Jody doesn't when compared to the other people you're mentioning there. Do I have to break things down for you now? You're not even paying attention to what the argument is, and shifting it over to Jody's importance in the series which isn't even that high to begin with. (And yes, most characters don't have much importance either, but that's no reason to say Jody has a shot)

There's no reason to listen to you on any of this. You think certain characters are satellite characters despite them not being so. You're denying the fact that the designers are giving her special attention over anyone except Falcon, Goroh, and Black Shadow post-GX. You haven't even spelled her last name right so far (but that's just annoying at worst).

Post GX? There hasn't been another standard canon game since then. If you want to include thoe anime-verse, then you're skipping out on Ryu, and the rest of the characters who had heavy influence in the anime. (Sorry about adding the S at the end of her name. Its just a force of habit.)

And I like how you mention how other people here are "against" Jody in this thread when everyone else is either saying "less likely than Goroh and Black Shadow" (which is obvious) or "shouldn't get in over Micaiah" (who has nothing to do with F-Zero). You know no one here cares about F-Zero and at least half of them are stuck on "we need ____ kind of character."

Again, you don't seem to actually be reading what I'm saying, or retaining the memory of what this is all about. Your list includes Jody but not several other characters who have higher chances, and that's what I commented on. For some reason though you've got such a hard on for Jody that you kept on accusing me of not knowing F-Zero, when someone who does know it should know that Jody has no chance of getting into a Smash game. Even if her status among other characters within the series is higher than average, that still doesn't matter in the end because the series itself is so low on the pecking order in combination with the fact that BS or Goroh would take any spot that F-Zero could even muster up.

Heck your last sentance there pretty much confirms that you're only saying Jody should get in because she's a girl.

If you're as familiar with F-Zero boards as you say you are, we wouldn't be having this debate. But whatever, you should know Black_ShadowGX then. Ask him what he thinks, what everyone else thinks. Better yet, ask him what the Japanese think. "Is Jody a main character?" Or alternatively, "who are the main characters in F-Zero?"

Go on, I'll wait.

Should I ask him also if Jody makes any sense for SSB4, because that's what the question is here. You seem to have problems with understanding what you read.... I'm not saying that Jody isn't important in her series, but rather that she's not a likely canidate for the next Smash game, and has virtually no chance. Really any F-Zero fan should know this because they should know that despite Jody's standing in the series, its not nearly high enough.

EDIT: Actually, his SSB4 list includes Black Shadow (obviously) and Phoenix, which I think would be better off as a alt costume of sorts. >_>

 

[Sonic_Smash]

Super Smash Bros Clash



Characters

* = Unlockable


Mario
Mario (Alt: Dr Mario)
Luigi* (Alt: Mr L)
Peach (Alt: Daisy)
Bowser (Dry Bones Bowser
Toad
Bowser Jr*


Yoshi
Yoshi (Alt Boshi)


Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong (Alt Funky Kong)
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K Rool* (Alt: Captain K Rool)

Wario
Wario (Alt: Overalls Wario


Zelda
Link (Alt: Zora Link)
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf* (with new moveset)
Toon Link* (Alt: Villager Link)


Metriod
Samus/Zero Suit Samus (Alt Dark Samus)
Ridley* (Alt: Meta-Ridley)


Kirby
Kirby
MetaKnight (Alt: Galactic Knight)
King Dedede


Star Fox
Fox
Falco*
Wolf*
Krystal


Pokemon
Pikachu (Alt: Raichu)
Jigglypuff*
Pokemom Trainer (Squritle, Ivysaur, Charizard) (Alt Female PKM Trainer)
Lucario*
Mewtwo* (BRING HIM BACK)


F-zero
Captain Falcon (Alt: Blood Falcon)


Earthbound
Ness (Alt: Niten)
Lucas* (Alt: Claus)

Fire Emblem
Marth (Alt: Roy)
Ike*
Lyn*

Other
Pikkim and Olimar- Pikkim
Issac- Golden Sun
Ray Mk III* - Custom Robo
Starfy* - Starfy

Retro
Ice Climbers
Mr Game & Watch*
Pit
R.O.B*
Little Mac- Punch Out


Metal Gear
Snake (Alt: Old Snake)
Raiden* (Alt: MGS 2 Raiden)


Sonic
Sonic (Alt: Shadow)
Tails* (Alt: Ali Baba)

Megaman
Megaman* (Alt: Protoman

50 Characters

Stages
Good Egg Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros
Luigi Circuit
Bowser Castle
Yoshi Island
Monkey Mines
Dimond City
New Zelda Stage
OutSet Island
Other M Stage
Nofair Depths
New Kirby Stage
Planet Saruaia
Pokemon Staduim 3
Next Gen Stage
Grand Prix
Mr Saturn Valley
New Ice Mountain
Flat Zone 3
Under World
Pikkim 3 Stage
Venus Light House
World Circuit Ring
Robo Arena
Starfy Stage
New Metal Gear Stage
Egg Fleet
Dr. Willy Fortress
Ballon Fighter Stage
Tetris
NES
Battle Field
Final Destination
Hyrule Castle (N64)
Safron City (N64)
Planet Zebes (N64)
Princess Peach Castle (Meele)
Fourside (Meele)
Fountain of Dreams (Meele)
Castle Seige (Brawl)
SmashVile (Brawl)
Greenhill Zone (Brawl)
Shadow Mosses Island (Brawl)

43 Stages

Please rate

 

[n88]

Super Smash Bros Clash



Characters

* = Unlockable


Mario
Mario (Alt: Dr Mario)
Luigi* (Alt: Mr L)
Peach (Alt: Roslina)
Bowser (Dry Bones Bowser
Toad
Bowser Jr*

Rosalina as an alt = fail. Seriously, Rosalina using Toad, a parasol, vegetables, or the Lovebutt? Other than that, this looks great.


Yoshi
Yoshi (Alt Boshi)


Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong (Alt Funky Kong)
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K Rool* (Alt: Captain K Rool)

That's Kaptain K. Rool. Minor, I know.

Wario
Wario (Alt: Overalls Wario

Wario could possibly gain another character. I hear Mona and Captain Syrup are popular.


Zelda
Link (Alt: Zora Link)
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf* (with new moveset)
Toon Link* (Alt: Villager Link)

Expect Tingle. Even if you hate him, he's the fourth most-recurring LoZ character, and the only character to get his own spin-offs. G-dorf doesn't need a whole new moveset. Just a few new attacks.


Metriod
Samus/Zero Suit Samus (Alt Dark Samus)
Ridley* (Alt: Meta-Ridley)




Kirby
Kirby
MetaKnight (Alt: Galactic Knight)
King Dedede


Star Fox
Fox
Falco*
Wolf*
Krystal

Krystal's a bit iffy, but far from impossible.


Pokemon
Pikachu (Alt: Raichu)
Jigglypuff*
Pokemom Trainer (Squritle, Ivysaur, Charizard) (Alt Female PKM Trainer)
Lucario*
Mewtwo* (BRING HIM BACK)

5th Gen Poke is a major shoe-in.


F-zero
Captain Falcon (Alt: Blood Falcon)

I would expect to see Samurai Goroh make an appearance.


Earthbound
Ness (Alt: Niten)
Lucas* (Alt: Claus)

Fire Emblem
Marth (Alt: Roy)
Ike*
Lyn*

Roy would get in as his own character before Lyn.

Other
Pikkim and Olimar- Pikkim
Issac- Golden Sun
Ray Mk III* - Custom Robo
Starfy* - Starfy

Retro
Ice Climbers
Mr Game & Watch*
Pit
R.O.B*
Little Mac- Punch Out


Metal Gear
Snake (Alt: Old Snake)
Raiden* (Alt: MGS 2 Raiden)

Raiden is unlikely at best.


Sonic
Sonic (Alt: Shadow)
Tails* (Alt: Ali Baba)

Tails is in the same boat as Raiden.

Megaman
Megaman* (Alt: Protoman

50 Characters

Stages
Good Egg Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros
Luigi Circuit
Bowser Castle
Yoshi Island
Monkey Mines
Dimond City
New Zelda Stage
OutSet Island
Other M Stage
Nofair Depths
New Kirby Stage
Planet Saruaia
Pokemon Staduim 3
Next Gen Stage
Grand Prix
Mr Saturn Valley
New Ice Mountain
Flat Zone 3
Under World
Pikkim 3 Stage
Venus Light House
World Circuit Ring
Robo Arena
Starfy Stage
New Metal Gear Stage
Egg Fleet
Dr. Willy Fortress
Ballon Fighter Stage
Tetris
NES
Battle Field
Final Destination
Hyrule Castle (N64)
Safron City (N64)
Planet Zebes (N64)
Princess Peach Castle (Meele)
Fourside (Meele)
Fountain of Dreams (Meele)
Castle Seige (Brawl)
SmashVile (Brawl)
Greenhill Zone (Brawl)
Shadow Mosses Island (Brawl)

43 Stages

Please rate

Comments in Green. If I didn't criticize something, assume I'm fine w/it. Don't really have anything to say about stages.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

To the Character list: I agree with most of what N88 said. everyone here knows my opinion on G-dorf and I agree with Tingle getting in (being the closest I can get to the Balloon Fighter) and if not him then someone else should be there

I have to disagree with him ont he account of Fire Emblem, I think Lyn is a better choice over Roy, but let's not dig up that grave again.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Should I ask him also if Jody makes any sense for SSB4, because that's what the question is here.

You DO know the entire point of the list was about "characters that matter in a given series and should eventually be playable," not "characters that'll be in SSB4," right? In the sense that it's supposed to list characters each series needs before it's completely represented the way Kirby is right now. I could see why you'd be confused though since I probably used the word candidate in the wrong context there.

Anyway, the question is whether Jody is on par with Falcon, Goroh, and Black Shadow, as opposed to minor status with everyone else. You still haven't given any reason for why anything she does doesn't matter aside from "she's not important."


I like Phoenix okay but that song's gotta go. I can't stand it.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Personally, replacing the actual Ganon with Black Shadow would be an awesome idea in my opinion.

Ganon could have his own unique moveset... WITH A SWORD.

To the Character list: I agree with most of what N88 said. everyone here knows my opinion on G-dorf and I agree with Tingle getting in (being the closest I can get to the Balloon Fighter) and if not him then someone else should be there

I have to disagree with him ont he account of Fire Emblem, I think Lyn is a better choice over Roy, but let's not dig up that grave again.

Fire Emblem ain't all about swords. Why digging for more of them? There are spear users, knife users, heck even TOME users.
So much variety for Fire Emblem...

 

[Sonic_Smash]

To the Character list: I agree with most of what N88 said. everyone here knows my opinion on G-dorf and I agree with Tingle getting in (being the closest I can get to the Balloon Fighter) and if not him then someone else should be there

I have to disagree with him ont he account of Fire Emblem, I think Lyn is a better choice over Roy, but let's not dig up that grave again.

The Reason why I didn't put tingle because IMO, he lacks potential move set but I do agree on him being the next Zelda chararter

 

[.WC.]

So I guess you guys are scrapping Paper Mario, then.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Personally, replacing the actual Ganon with Black Shadow would be an awesome idea in my opinion.

Ganon could have his own unique moveset... WITH A SWORD.



Fire Emblem ain't all about swords. Why digging for more of them? There are spear users, knife users, heck even TOME users.
So much variety for Fire Emblem...

BE WARNED THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY I CAN SAY THIS W/O SAYING SOMETHING RUDE/MEAN

Like Shino lets not dig up that grave (both of em) but I have to say:

HECK NO, Black Shadow (BS abbreviation would be bad for obvious reasons) SHOULD NOT, WILL NOT replace Ganon, WITH A SWORD!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? I COULD LITERALLY EXPLODE RIGHT NOW EVEN MORE THAN I AM RIGHT NOW, DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OF A WASTE IT WOULD BE TO GIVE HIM A SWORD????
The ONLY people that say something that stupid are people that have only played Twilight Princess. Do you know exactly which (and only) game he had a sword in? Twilight Princess. (WW doesn't count, we know now that he would be Toon Ganon)
*Deep Breath* *Deep Breath*
Okay I'm calm now.......but seriously it would be an insane waste.

Lets not go into Fire Emblem right now like Shino said

Me no likey Tingle........I WANT to expect him as much as I DON'T expect an SSB4
I say ANY of my other LOZs would be better. (Vaati, Skull Kid, Toon Ganondorf, even Midna/Wolf Link)

Sorry about that explosion up there got a little carried away..........

.WC., I didn't even notice that about PM, why ever would they do that?

 

[BBQTV]

So I guess you guys are scrapping Paper Mario, then.

hell no PM for smash .anyway i dont want tingle in the next smash i think their enough zelda characters and really even if their wasnt **** tingle he should not be in the next smash

 

[Wizzerd]

The Reason why I didn't put tingle because IMO, he lacks potential move set but I do agree on him being the next Zelda chararter

BLATANT ADVERTISING

...MYM isn't that realistic, but I'm still pretty confident that Tingle has fighting potential. Even in his NPC roles he's shown some potential with his Tingle Tuner weapons and whatnot, and in his own games he's shown plenty as well. He can make a bar-style dust-cloud fight and hire bodyguards in Rosy Rupeeland, and I'm sure he shows more in Balloon Trip of Love which I haven't played. In any case, if characters like ROB and Game and Watch could fight I'm confident Tingle can.

In any case, I'm in agreement with n88's suggestions. Otherwise, it's got some good picks on it.

 

[Clownbot]

hell no PM for smash .anyway i dont want tingle in the next smash i think their enough zelda characters and really even if their wasnt **** tingle he should not be in the next smash

Epic reasoning.

What's that? Mega Man in my Smash Bros.? None of that ****.

Spoiler

It's funny, every single poster in this thread is bound to be disappointed by at least one thing that'll happen in SSB4.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

BE WARNED THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY I CAN SAY THIS W/O SAYING SOMETHING RUDE/MEAN

Like Shino lets not dig up that grave (both of em) but I have to say:

HECK NO, Black Shadow (BS abbreviation would be bad for obvious reasons) SHOULD NOT, WILL NOT replace Ganon, WITH A SWORD!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? I COULD LITERALLY EXPLODE RIGHT NOW EVEN MORE THAN I AM RIGHT NOW, DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OF A WASTE IT WOULD BE TO GIVE HIM A SWORD????
The ONLY people that say something that stupid are people that have only played Twilight Princess. Do you know exactly which (and only) game he had a sword in? Twilight Princess. (WW doesn't count, we know now that he would be Toon Ganon)
*Deep Breath* *Deep Breath*
Okay I'm calm now.......but seriously it would be an insane waste.

Lets not go into Fire Emblem right now like Shino said

Me no likey Tingle........I WANT to expect him as much as I DON'T expect an SSB4
I say ANY of my other LOZs would be better. (Vaati, Skull Kid, Toon Ganondorf, even Midna/Wolf Link)

Sorry about that explosion up there got a little carried away..........

.WC., I didn't even notice that about PM, why ever would they do that?

Okay, outburst much... Any specific reason as of why Ganon shouldn't have a sword? That's basically Twilight Ganon at the moment. I'd love Link NOT to have the Gale boomerang. But he still has it... because he's Twilight Link o_O.

F-Zero characters don't even have real movesets. So I see Black Shadow with Ganon's actual moveset perfectly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And about Fire Emblem, I don't see anything wrong with my statement. It's true, that there are more than sword-users.

Btw- Call me stupid, sure. But having an outburst on a discussion over a game that has the possibility of never existing is very, but oh so very stupid, sir.
Get mad all you want, you'll just make yourself look even more dumb.

Epic reasoning.

What's that? Mega Man in my Smash Bros.? None of that ****.

Spoiler

It's funny, every single poster in this thread is bound to be disappointed by at least one thing that'll happen in SSB4.

I absolutely agree with you, Clownbot. Despite the fact that I'd love to have MegaMan or X in Smash Bros.
*Boom* And Clownbot saves the day! , haha.

 

[Clownbot]

Okay, outburst much... Any specific reason as of why Ganon shouldn't have a sword? That's basically Twilight Ganon at the moment. I'd love Link NOT to have the Gale boomerang. But he still has it... because he's Twilight Link o_O.

By the time SSB4 will come out, Twilight Princess (and probably the Gale Boomerang) will be long gone. And this is just my opinion, but Ganondorf doesn't need a sword. It's just too OOC to me, not like that's a good reason to Sakurai or anything.

F-Zero characters don't even have real movesets. So I see Black Shadow with Ganon's actual moveset perfectly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I know of several members who frequent(ed) this thread that said they would prefer Black Shadow with a cloneset so Ganondorf could be uncloned, tbh.

Btw- Call me stupid, sure. But having an outburst on a discussion over a game that has the possibility of never existing is very, but oh so very stupid, sir.

No, there will be an SSB4. It'll probably take a while, but Nintendo won't let go of an opportunity as big as SSB4 to milk a ****load of cash.

As far as the arguing in here goes.... Well, some of the arguments actually are stupid, whether or not there will be an SSB4. I've probably made some pretty bad posts in here myself, but a lot of the time it's just harmless discussion, and even the debates can be kind of fun.

EDIT: Lol, thanks, Ryu.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

By the time SSB4 will come out, Twilight Princess (and probably the Gale Boomerang) will be long gone. And this is just my opinion, but Ganondorf doesn't need a sword. It's just too OOC to me, not like that's a good reason to Sakurai or anything.

Good point.

I know of several members who frequent(ed) this thread that said they would prefer Black Shadow with a cloneset so Ganondorf could be uncloned, tbh.

Well, I guess I'm one of them too. I don't see a problem with Black Shadow taking Ganon's actual moveset... Seriously.

No, there will be an SSB4. It'll probably take a while, but Nintendo won't let go of an opportunity as big as SSB4 to milk a ****load of cash.

As far as the arguing in here goes.... Well, some of the arguments actually are stupid, whether or not there will be an SSB4. I've probably made some pretty bad posts in here myself, but a lot of the time it's just harmless discussion, and even the debates can be kind of fun.

EDIT: Lol, thanks, Ryu.

I know that it'll be out one day or another. As you've said, it's a great opportunity and they can't let go of it. But my statement still makes plenty of sense. Why get so mad?

Oh and, no problem! I felt like saying it for the hell of it.

 

[Pieman0920]

You DO know the entire point of the list was about "characters that matter in a given series and should eventually be playable," not "characters that'll be in SSB4," right? In the sense that it's supposed to list characters each series needs before it's completely represented the way Kirby is right now. I could see why you'd be confused though since I probably used the word candidate in the wrong context there.

Well that still doesn't excuse all the other characters that you didn't add yet let Jody slip in there. F-Zero doesn't really deserve all that much, and as it stands, getting one new character is still questionable. As of right now, on September 28th, 2009, F-Zero barely should get two characters, let alone four, which is the number that Jody would have to wait for at least. While she has more importance in her series than the average other racer, that importance still isn't that much, not to mention the series itself (which you've mentioned as something no one cares about) isn't nearly developed enough to warrant 4 characters, especially given the fact that they are all simply racers at their core. Jody doesn't completely represent the series, because the only thing that she represents (and mind you even Black_ShadowGX has said this) is the girl side of F-Zero, and thus she would only be T&A character and nothing more.

In addition, not all series can possibly be as balanced as Kirby is right now, because no other series really has a structure like Kirby to copy out. Look at the Donkey Kong series for instance. While its true that Dixie and K.Rool are two obvious pottential additions, neither really have the same impact or popularity as MK and Dedede have in their own series due to how both the Donkey Kong and the Kirby series have progressed. In regards to F-Zero, the only one who really balances anything out here (and mind you, that balancing out here is of course speculative, even in the case of Kirby) is Goroh, since he forms a perfectly good antagonist with Falcon. And you basically have both sides of the story. While Black Shadow, Jody, Phoenix, Bio Rex, Billy, QQQ, Antonio Guster, Dr. Clash, and all the other racers have their own stories the technical story of F-Zero is so limited itself that CF and Goroh basically represent it all themselves just like Kirby, MK and DDD do for the Kirby series.

Also to note, while you may say that its not something for SSB4, but rather something for the series to eventually reach after several games, that excuse seems pretty shallow, since what you're supposed to hope for right now is what will "balance" out the series. Heck, if so many characters were actually needed to bring balance to the F-Zero series, we probably would already be on that. In addition, even if a character is essential to the story in some way, that doesn't mean they should be playable. Jody for all intents and purposes has never been shown to throw a punch ever. Heck, she doesn't even have a gun to show off. While this is basically true for all F-Zero characters (minus a few that do have weapons) that mostly highlights the fact that most of them just shouldn't be playable characters. I don't think anyone out there doesn't think that Black Shadow shouldn't be a clone of Falcon, who himself almost certainly got his moveset because his body type was a match for the models in the prototype game that eventually became Smash.

Anyway, the question is whether Jody is on par with Falcon, Goroh, and Black Shadow, as opposed to minor status with everyone else. You still haven't given any reason for why anything she does doesn't matter aside from "she's not important."

The only thing she's ever really done is get rescued by Captain Falcon in one chapter of GX. Other than that, she has been a racer, like 40 or so other F-Zero characters, which I think explains itself as far as her importance. Now forgive me if I get this tidbit wrong, since I can't verify it right now, but I'm pretty sure the reason Captain Falcon went to Lightning was to stop Black Shadow rather than to save Jody, so her real involvement in the story is essentially only in that one chapter. Given that the story would proceed the exact same way if her chapter did not happen at all, I think its pretty clear that it really wasn't important, and was just a way to let the player have a different type of challenge. Thus her being a useless female character in this one instance isn't actually important.

I like Phoenix okay but that song's gotta go. I can't stand it.

You obviously just don't want to feel the pressure. :embarrass

 

[Paper Mario Master]

And about Fire Emblem, I don't see anything wrong with my statement. It's true, that there are more than sword-users.

Clownbot took care of everything but this,

I never said it was false I just said that we shouldn't go into discussion about it (coughMicaiahcough) oops

and you kinda just contradicted your self.......SWORD-USERS eh? Ganon ring a bell in your post?