[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Paper Mario Master]

Keep it up guys, this is getting quite intresting...

Also anyone who feels it neccesary to change the subject because you want another shallow discussion of something that will generate a post or two from everyone else...don't...or at least wait til a lull in the conversation and/or a conclusion.

There was a conclusion, a few pages back they stopped arguing about it.

New Topic....?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

The conclusion was Neo stating, were done. I am intrested in the conversation that is going down and would find it easier to just let the debate continue.

And what made you think the agrument was concluded...? The post above you is in response to the debate.

I didn't mean to offend if I did.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

If there was a meter, it should be filled up by sweetspotting attacks or doing a good combo or correctly dodging a move by rolling. There, Final Smashes are incorporated into gameplay and people stop complaining about how Sakurai hates the competitive scene.

Here was my solution to the super meter debate.

 

[Big-Cat]

@ n88

a) Again, look at my previous posts. I reiterate that taking damage is not the only way. Here the six ways to increase the meter:

1. Using Special Moves
2. Stringing Combos
3. Counterattacks
4. Teching/Ukemi
5. Taking Damage
6. Losing a Life (Not SDing)

Naturally, certain methods will increase more than others. Being KO'd increases it the most, teching and special moves do the least.

With that in mind, Bowser could spam a special move until it's full. Therefore, Jigglypuff can't just stall.

b)While Smash is simplistic, which I appreciate, it can't always stay the same. The gameplay has to evolve over time, and aside from more hitstun, I think this may be the next thing, but who knows.

c) Actually, I don't think a whole lot of characters would go through major changes, most would get balanced versions of their FS. For example, PK Starstorm would be a fast angled downpouring of energy instead of all over the stage. The only ones I can think of at the moment that would get replaced are Peach, Luigi, Bowser, DK, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Wario, R.O.B., Yoshi, Dedede, Pit, Jigglypuff, Snake, and Olimar.

@ Neo Exdeath
I like that.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Here was my solution to the super meter debate.

Alright so since the current posts between Kuma and N88 are fictional, I'll bring up a new topic >.>

Young link should replace Toon Link for canonical sake.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^Why do you say that? The toon universe seems to be more popular, and Young Link wasn't really popular.

Also, I reposted that because only 2 people noticed it and then everyone else just went on with their debate.

@KumaOso: Well, thank you!

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Canonically, Young Link and Link are from the same timeline (Assuming you believe the Split Timeline theory) while Young Link is of the other Timeline. As trivial as it is, I feel, popularity aside, that this makes more sense.

And i understand why you posted it, but because you present an idea doesn;t mean other people debating have to take your word as final.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

^I know that. I was just reposting it because the supermeter haters seemed to ignore it.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

New Topic....?

If it makes you feel any better, I've pretty much lost all interest in humoring the Super Meter idea.

While Smash is simplistic, which I appreciate, it can't always stay the same. The gameplay has to evolve over time, and aside from more hitstun, I think this may be the next thing, but who knows.

This isn't an evolution, this is a whole new beast. It'll play nothing like the previous games in the series because the entire focus will be on the Super Meter. If anything, it's a step backwards.

An evolution -- a GOOD evolution -- keeps everything that makes the original great and expands on it without losing focus. Chocolate cupcake becomes chocolate birthday cake. Squirtle becomes Wartortle. A Super Meter in Smash Bros. is like adding a gallon of vinegar into the mix or having my Squirtle evolve into a Raichu.

Different? Yes, but it doesn't belong. In another context, sure, but not here.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

So...........Are we off of the TL YL thing? I'd rather have TL for the record. And sorry this feels like a noob-ish question but what exactly do Canonical and Topical (I think) mean? >.<

 

[Neo Exdeath]

@ ToiseOfChoise: How would it be another game except for you just simply stating it? Have you read my idea? Do you have any evidence it would make the game so much different as you say so?

 

[Jerome]

K ive think this is how the smash meter should work:

1. Using the Shield (Works only if u block attacks and meter fills up a bit more if u use the shield at perfect timing.)
2. Side step (fills up a little if attacked)
3. Air dodge (fills up a little if attacked)
4. While crowd is cheering your character guage fills up slowly.
5. Making the audience gasp. (guage fills up a little.)
6. Getting KO'd not SD. (The more your losing to your opponent the more it fills up and the smash meter won't fill at all if your ahead by 2 lives, 2 points, Have 200 coins or more and if they bring bonus back guage won't increase if ahead by 4000 points.

What do u guys think? Will this make the smash meter fair?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Your system involves building the Super Meter by:

- Sweetspotting (great for characters with those kind of attacks like Marth)
- Comboing (great for characters who can actually combo)
- Rolling from an attack (great for defensive players)

Keep in mind you'd only have to fill up a little bit of the meter to use the "Super Special" move, which is designed to be stronger than any of the regular moves but not really a Final Smash (so something on par with a free Super Scope or a Beam Sword, or maybe a decent Pokeball/AT).

Guess what everyone will spend the entire match doing? And yes, this is a slippery slope. We don't want that.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Wut? My method has you have to actually be in the match and be doing something productive to have you get the Super Attack. This means that if you can correctly sweetspot or combo or roll, you're in the match. I think you deserve a better advantage if you can do that. Sure, the match will be more of getting the Super Attack, but that's not much different of how Sakurai originally intended the game to be played.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I like the Smash Ball, I don't see what the problem is if it has an HP bar or something, and I like Final Smashes too if you guys are tryin to get rid of them to. Smash will never be perfect okay and Sakurai will probably never change the FSs like that so please don't ignore every other post and argue for 4 pages.

Can somebody answer my question on Pg. 1682 please?

 

[Neo Exdeath]

You mean a new topic? Fine, then. What do you want as a Trophy Collector like the lottery or coin launcher for SSB4?

 

[Paper Mario Master]

You mean a new topic? Fine, then. What do you want as a Trophy Collector like the lottery or coin launcher for SSB4?

Coin Launcher was pretty good they just needed to make it more enjoyable/interesting/entertaining

And if that was answering my question, I meant the noob-ish one...

 

[Big-Cat]

An evolution -- a GOOD evolution -- keeps everything that makes the original great and expands on it without losing focus. Chocolate cupcake becomes chocolate birthday cake. Squirtle becomes Wartortle. A Super Meter in Smash Bros. is like adding a gallon of vinegar into the mix or having my Squirtle evolve into a Raichu.

Different? Yes, but it doesn't belong. In another context, sure, but not here.

Let me ask you this: Specifically name something that would be a good evolution to the series?

I don't see how a super meter would be a bad evolution. There's more to a match than filling up the meter and using a super special whenever you want. There's strategy to it.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Coin Launcher was pretty good they just needed to make it more enjoyable/interesting/entertaining

And if that was answering my question, I meant the noob-ish one...

What noobish one? I didn't see you make a noobish question.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

What noobish one? I didn't see you make a noobish question.

What do Canonical and Topical mean?.......

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Canonical means having to do with the main storyline of the series. Topical means having to do with the topic.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Canonical means having to do with the main storyline of the series. Topical means having to do with the topic.

That's kinda what I thought but I just wanted to be sure....

 

[Jerome]

Like I said before SSB4 should have the Smash Store. You can buy some trophys, color swaps, new outfits (only can be worn when fighting royal), some music, chronicles, stickers, masterpieces, stage builder parts and backgrounds.
Trophys like the Master Hand can't be bought at the Smash Store and Good music can't be bought either.
You must do the certain Conditions to get certain Trophys and certain music.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

So...........Are we off of the TL YL thing? I'd rather have TL for the record. And sorry this feels like a noob-ish question but what exactly do Canonical and Topical (I think) mean? >.<

Meh, It hasn't been touched on so let's see where it goes.

Ah ****...WHile doing research to prove my point, I actually counter acted it. Twlighlt Princess is part of the Child Timeline while Toon is part of the Adult, making Toon the actual logical candidate...****it.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Let me ask you this: Specifically name something that would be a good evolution to the series?

I don't see how a super meter would be a bad evolution. There's more to a match than filling up the meter and using a super special whenever you want. There's strategy to it.

Expanding the player limit from 4 to 6-8. Possibly the simplest yet deepest addition the multiplayer could have.

I'm ignoring the Super Meter system stuff from here on out. You're not gonna change your mind on this and I'll just end up repeating points I've already made that you're missing.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Shop=good but I don't want to think that much right now (or type that much) so anyone wanna talk about the TL YL? or something new........or I guess we can talk about the shop

 

[mariorocks64]

I wish Luigi's mansion stage was bigger and more complexed. it feels better when I play tiny brawl in luigi's mansion.

 

[Scott!]

I definitely like the shop idea. I still haven't bothered to get all of the stickers yet. I've got like ~670, and I just don't care enough to make another factory stage or to sit through 1000s of coins of coin launcher. I'd rather buy stuff, or at least go back to the lottery system. Coin Launcher could be an alternate, I guess. But it just gets so boring after a while.

TL > YL More potential for decloning there, because face it, we'll never get MM masks Young Link.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I still prefer Young Link because MM mask wasn't his only game. Some fans believe many of the older games have Young Link as the hero ( Four Swords is usually categorized in the Child Timeline). And although Twilight Link is technically from the Chidl timeline too, he seems to be an Adult link who just uses the Twilight pallette. MM wouldn't be the only game Young Link would need to draw inspiration from.

EDIT: At luigi's mansion being bigger. While I don;t exactly feel Lugi's mansion shoudl be bigger, I do feel new bigger stages should be introduced as long as they're made better than New Pork. Hyrule Temple and Fourside are two of my favorite stages to play with my friends, I understand tghe problems they present to Competetive play, but as long as you don't play with campers and tools, then it's still very playable.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Expanding the player limit from 4 to 6-8. Possibly the simplest yet deepest addition the multiplayer could have.

I agree with this. Having the multiplayer expand to more players would have Smash easily rival Bomberman in terms of pure, party fun.

Of course, they'd have to make work on it, so that the framerate doesn't lag too much...

 

[SymphonicSage12]

and they'd have to make the next system have 6 to 8 controller ports...

 

[Pieman0920]

In regards to a Smash shop.... I'm not quite sure. Most of the appeal of unlocking things is completely the challenges set out for you, which lets you play different modes that you don't normally get to. With a shop, you just buy everything there. Of course you could that doing certain challenges unlocks certain trophies/stickers/stages/whatever in the store, but that's annoying too, since after you've unlocked something, you have to go and buy it when you may or may not have enough ...well I guess coins.

Still, as I've been trying to get all the stickers (698, and still only one Ridley e_e) I can see the merrit of having them just there in a store, since its downright near impossible to get new stickers now. Then again, that could just be viewed as lazy/the challenge of sticker collecting being taken out, so in all, I kind of think that a store may not be all that great of an idea. =/

 

[Paper Mario Master]

In regards to a Smash shop.... I'm not quite sure. Most of the appeal of unlocking things is completely the challenges set out for you, which lets you play different modes that you don't normally get to. With a shop, you just buy everything there. Of course you could that doing certain challenges unlocks certain trophies/stickers/stages/whatever in the store, but that's annoying too, since after you've unlocked something, you have to go and buy it when you may or may not have enough ...well I guess coins.

Still, as I've been trying to get all the stickers (698, and still only one Ridley e_e) I can see the merrit of having them just there in a store, since its downright near impossible to get new stickers now. Then again, that could just be viewed as lazy/the challenge of sticker collecting being taken out, so in all, I kind of think that a store may not be all that great of an idea. =/

In my idea of the Smash Shop (idk about you guys) only certain things would be there and only certain things would have to be unlocked then bought (MAYBE alt. costumes) but most things would still be only "unlockable" like the "Challenges" section (which I think look WAY to much like Kirby Air Ride) in the "Vault".

@ Shino....and the TL/YL:
I always considered Four Sword, FSA, and Minish Cap to all be Toon Link along w/ WW, PH, and ST. That gives TL 3 games that are definitely his and 3 more that are probably his that are all fairly recent. YL only has MM and the other unknown games and half of OoT. Face it we won't be getting an MM Y.Link, the best we could get would be a faster link. On the other hand MM could get Skull Kid before the throw out TL for YL.

 

[Finman702]

In my idea of the Smash Shop (idk about you guys) only certain things would be there and only certain things would have to be unlocked then bought (MAYBE alt. costumes) but most things would still be only "unlockable" like the "Challenges" section (which I think look WAY to much like Kirby Air Ride) in the "Vault".

@ Shino....and the TL/YL:
I always considered Four Sword, FSA, and Minish Cap to all be Toon Link along w/ WW, PH, and ST. That gives TL 3 games that are definitely his and 3 more that are probably his that are all fairly recent. YL only has MM and the other unknown games and half of OoT. Face it we won't be getting an MM Y.Link, the best we could get would be a faster link. On the other hand MM could get Skull Kid before the throw out TL for YL.

I like how you say that Young Link won't get in because he is only in a game and a half, at least. Then you say Skull Kid could get in when he is only in the one game.

I agree we probably won't see a MM Young Link (as much as I would like to). But I don't think we will see Skull Kid either.

 

[n88]

TL/YL

First off, I would like to establish that YL/TL should be in the game. Sakurai considers this important for a reason.

Adult Link - More iconic, popular
Younger Link - You do know that Link's a kid in pretty much every Zelda game except TP, right?

As for YL vs. TL, I support Toon Link. Because he can be luigified without becoming a totally new character much easier. And I think the two Links should be Luigified clones.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I like how you say that Young Link won't get in because he is only in a game and a half, at least. Then you say Skull Kid could get in when he is only in the one game.

I agree we probably won't see a MM Young Link (as much as I would like to). But I don't think we will see Skull Kid either.

Technically SK was in most Zelda games, SK also has the greater chance of not being a "clone" than YL because there's no one for him to be cloned off of (oops some of you will get mad because the same could have been said for Ganondorf) and his chance of getting in is, yes low but, his chances of getting "cloned", a lot less than YL. I don't want TL kicked out for even more of a "clone" than he already is.

 

[n88]

Technically SK was in most Zelda games

He was in three (Well, the character was in two, and the race has appeared in three) vs. Young Link's every game but Twilight Princess.

 

[Pieman0920]

Skull Kid actually is in more games than people give him credit for, but he's only really important in one. In addition, the only way for the Skull Kid to actually be a interesting character to put in is if he had Majora's Mask on, and that's not what he's usually like. Its like putting in Mr. L or Dry Bowser without Luigi or Bowser. And the status of being, or not being a clone isn't really a good sign of a character's chances of getting in, as it could be theorized that if a character is likely to be a clone, then they will have a higher chance of getting in due to the development team getting lazy.

In any case, Toon Link by this point is the Link that's been in the most games, and he's also the one who should stay. Pretty much all of Link's non adult apperances since the GCN/GBA generation have used the Toon look, and with Spirit Tracks, it seems that trend will continue.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Toon Link (counting FS, FSA, and MC) makes up a third of the Zelda games

 

[Finman702]

Technically SK was in most Zelda games, SK also has the greater chance of not being a "clone" than YL because there's no one for him to be cloned off of (oops some of you will get mad because the same could have been said for Ganondorf) and his chance of getting in is, yes low but, his chances of getting "cloned", a lot less than YL. I don't want TL kicked out for even more of a "clone" than he already is.

Skull kid has only played a REAL role in MM like Pieman said. Which I'm assuming is the skull Kid we were talking about, with the mask. And since we were talking about MM YL he owuldnt be a clone at all if he were true to MM. He could transform between Deku Scrub, Zora and Goron making him very original.