[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I really don't know anything on the Ryu Hayabusa(Ninja Gaiden) or Pac-Man parts, but I'd say mega Man has a shot at getting in from popularity and Travis has a chance from begging. I refuse to believe in Bomberman. But then again, I don't know if he's had a new game or anything.

In recent years, Ninja Gaiden had a new revival series made for the Xbox and PS3. Of course, one has to take into account that there used to be a Ninja Gaiden series released on the NES (adapted from their arcade counterparts), not to mention a DS game prequel released for the revival series (although portables aren't part of the criteria for making it in the roster). Also, Team Ninja are doing Metroid: Other M, so that could be a factor used in their "begging".

Pac-Man is, well, Pac-Man. He's been everywhere thanks to his success, so...yeah.

Even if you have no faith in Bomberman making it in, it's hard to deny that he did have an impact in Nintendo history, with his tried-and-true multiplayer-friendly series (especially with the multitap peripheral that was made for Super Bomberman).

can sora be in since he has a game on the ds and i believe the guy who made the brawl theme worked in KH

It was said that 3rd parties can only get in if they had at least one game released on a Nintendo console.

I apologize, but portables don't count.

 

[majora_787]

Yeaaaah
1. If you want to start bringing up every MINOR didn't do, "Like OMG Young Link didn't use a different style of the SAME item." Besides I like the Finishing Blow (Which Link hadn't USED before 64 or Melee, they just gave him that move in TP duh ) on TL better than Link. That leaves Gannon, I'm not any happier about him not having an OoT Magic moveset.

2. I never said he didn't have a chance of being a clone, I just said it's not as easy as the others and the only way is laziness.

No, the only way is the developers not caring...or there being a deadline.

Also, I think it was Final Fantasy.

EDIT: I just have no faith in Bomberman in general. What I meant by Pac-Man and Ninja Gaiden is I didn't know about recent involvement.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

No, the only way is the developers not caring...or there being a deadline.

Also, I think it was Final Fantasy.

Well they could change the deadline/release date, they did w/ Brawl

FF?

 

[Wizzerd]

Paper Mario can be a clone while remaining true to the games. He could use a Fire Flower for his Neutral B, sort of whip his body forward and reflect projectiles for his Side B, use the same thing for his Up B and use Flurrie's Gale Force for the Down B... or just use the same moves, it wouldn't be all that hard, given Ganondorf...

Still, I think that Paper Mario's potential to be a clone actually boosts his chances. He can easily get his own moveset in early development. If he couldn't be a clone his potential ends right there, but since he can be he has a chance of being added late in development. Would you rather have cloned Paper Mario or no Paper Mario at all?

 

[Tacel]

Also, Starfox Adventures doesn't mean a staff is confirmed for SSB4. Even if it'd be a new weapon, Starfox Assault and Command came out between Adventures and Brawl. After they referenced Assault here in brawl, I doubt they will go backwards to Adventures.

I never said that. It was just an example of what I meant as a game when the main character uses an item throughout the game.
Another example would be the F.L.U.D.D. from Super Mario Sunshine.

 

[BBQTV]

Paper Mario can be a clone while remaining true to the games. He could use a Fire Flower for his Neutral B, sort of whip his body forward and reflect projectiles for his Side B, use the same thing for his Up B and use Flurrie's Gale Force for the Down B... or just use the same moves, it wouldn't be all that hard, given Ganondorf...

Still, I think that Paper Mario's potential to be a clone actually boosts his chances. He can easily get his own moveset in early development. If he couldn't be a clone his potential ends right there, but since he can be he has a chance of being added late in development. Would you rather have cloned Paper Mario or no Paper Mario at all?

thats a good question if they could get a non clone in i rather they do that then waste time on a clone

 

[n88]

Paper Mario can be a clone while remaining true to the games. He could use a Fire Flower for his Neutral B, sort of whip his body forward and reflect projectiles for his Side B, use the same thing for his Up B and use Flurrie's Gale Force for the Down B... or just use the same moves, it wouldn't be all that hard, given Ganondorf...

Still, I think that Paper Mario's potential to be a clone actually boosts his chances. He can easily get his own moveset in early development. If he couldn't be a clone his potential ends right there, but since he can be he has a chance of being added late in development. Would you rather have cloned Paper Mario or no Paper Mario at all?

Actually, I'd rather have no Paper Mario at all. That way, he would be a fantastic SSB5 candidate, and sure to be implemented early in development with his own moveset. But that's just me.

 

[Arcadenik]

You know... I have been thinking that it is possible for Krystal to be a clone of Fox, even with the staff.

B: Krystal shoots a light beam from her staff likr Fox's Blaster. Yeah, its pretty basic.

Side B: Krystal zips through the air like Fox's Illusion, only it is a bit different. She slashes her staff through the air above her head while doing this, meaning she can attack in two parallel paths, just to make her "different".

Up B: Krystal charges her staff and blasts through the air like Fox's Fire Fox, only she does it "different" by spinning her staff like Link's Sword Spin while blasting off in a direction like Fox's Fire Fox.

Down B: Krystal uses her staff to deflect projectiles and pushes away other characters like Falco's Reflector.

Final Smash: Krystal gets in her pink Landmaster. *sighs*

Edit: I would rather have no playable Paper Mario, too. But I would like a Paper Mario stage. It would work better as a Paper Mario rep, much like the Mario Circuit stage worked as a Mario Kart rep.

 

[Kahuna]

I think they should put Geno, king k. rool, Louie, Krystal, skull kid, paper Mario, and Vaati. they never even gave these characters a chance. If they put these characters in the game would sellbetter than brawl.

 

[Tacel]

You know... I have been thinking that it is possible for Krystal to be a clone of Fox, even with the staff.

B: Krystal shoots a light beam from her staff likr Fox's Blaster. Yeah, its pretty basic.

Side B: Krystal zips through the air like Fox's Illusion, only it is a bit different. She slashes her staff through the air above her head while doing this, meaning she can attack in two parallel paths, just to make her "different".

Up B: Krystal charges her staff and blasts through the air like Fox's Fire Fox, only she does it "different" by spinning her staff like Link's Sword Spin while blasting off in a direction like Fox's Fire Fox.

Down B: Krystal uses her staff to deflect projectiles and pushes away other characters like Falco's Reflector.

Final Smash: Krystal gets in her pink Landmaster. *sighs*

Edit: I would rather have no playable Paper Mario, too. But I would like a Paper Mario stage. It would work better as a Paper Mario rep, much like the Mario Circuit stage worked as a Mario Kart rep.

It is possible for Krystal to be a clone, but that would be just plain lazy on Nintendo's part.
In my opinion, Krystal has less of a chance of being a clone, considering that a staff opens different possibilities for her.

And yeah, a Paper Mario stage would be nice. Perhaps Fracktails back.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Would you rather have cloned Paper Mario or no Paper Mario at all?

Seeing as how 1. he's meh fav character 2. first game I EVER played ALL the way through was PM64 3. He's my most wanted character for SSB (cuz he's my fav duh) I would rather have no PM than a cloned PM. It sucks that it would have to be that way (unless he's not cloned w/ time) but it's for best

 

[BBQTV]

i think we all agree we dont want a PM clone

 

[Arcadenik]

Just forget about Geno. He is not important to Mario, Nintendo, and Square Enix.

As for Paper Mario, it is possible he could be a clone or even a semi-clone of regular Mario when it comes to specials.

B: he pulls out the Fire Flower from the Paper Mario games and uses it like a flamethrower like how the Fire Flower of the Smash games does.

Side B: he sends out the Pixl called Fleep to flip the projectiles and characters the opposite direction.

Up B: he does the same Super Jump Punch

Down B: he could spin around to attack... I remember there was a badge in the first Paper Mario that would allow you to attack first by spinning into an enemy.

Final Smash: I would rather see him iturn into Mega Mario, a giant 2D sprite of the SMB Mario, than to use Mario's Final Smash.

Still, I prefer Toad over Paper Mario. I don't really want another version of Mario (Dr. Mario, Paper Mario) and a mini-Bowser (Bowser Jr.)

 

[Paper Mario Master]

So it's decided! No cloned or Non at all!

 

[CRASHiC]

I WANT A STARFOX ADVENTURE STAGE ROAR

Seriously, that would be amazing. Am I the only one who wants to fight near dinosaurs?

also,

Notable in that he’s made two appearances as a level boss — in Wario Land 2 and Wario Land 3. Also, Wario doesn’t have to beat the tar out of him, just out-score him in a game of basketball. Rather odd. Might he made a good addition to Mario Hoops 3-on-3? Ah, but then he wouldn’t be on this list.

Not too different from Ball Bunny in some respects, Dangerous Duck isn’t even a boss. He’s a generic, boomerand-tossing baddie in Wario Land 2 and Wario Land 3. Nonetheless, D.D. actually pops up as a playable character in the latter in a remake of the old Game & Watch title Flagman. A rare honor, but not one great enough to make him known to the Mario fan community at large.

Yoshi’s yipping canine pal, who seemed like he had a shot a regularhood after debut in Yoshi’s Island, now appears to be out for the count. Though semi-playable in that game and selectable in the Yoshi-starring Tetris Attack, Poochy never became a regular in the mainstream Mario games. What’s worse: He’s even dropped out of the newer Yoshi games, having been AWOL in Yoshi Topsy-Turvy, Yoshi Touch & Go and Yoshi's Island DS.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, I don't really want Paper Mario even though I can envision how he might work in Smash. I prefer Toad and I have always wanted Toad since 2001.

 

[BBQTV]

i want sora

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Well, I don't really want Paper Mario even though I can envision how he might work in Smash. I prefer Toad and I have always wanted Toad since 2001.

I like toad too but he won't get in before BJ because he's more important. (Toad's important because he's been there bla bla bla bla. Though he might get w/ PM and/or BJ cuz of NSMB Wii.)

 

[StinkomanFan]

i want sora

He never was on a Nintendo console. Thus killing his chances

 

[CRASHiC]

The red snifit for SSB4
http://progressiveboink.com/archive/redsnifit.html

 

[BBQTV]

i dont care [tis ashame i want something that i will never get]

 

[Paper Mario Master]

New Topic, or is this even a topic?

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't think Sakurai cares if Bowser Jr. is more important than Toad. He does not seem like the type who cares about that. If he finds the character very interesting, he is more likely to add them in Smash. Bowser Jr. is not very interesting. He is basically an updated Baby Bowser and if Bowser Jr. gets in over Toad in SSB4, it would likely be because Sakurai was lazy to come up with an original moveset and used Bowser Jr. as a last-minute filler clone. Also, Sakurai didn't sound like he was interested in Bowser Jr. from what I read his trophy. His trophy just tells us his roles in Mario games. But when it came to Toad's trophy, not only was his roles in Mario games mentioned but also his abilities from SMB2. To me, it seems to have that "will he ever fight again?" feel to it.

 

[Pieman0920]

You know its technically only your own opinion that Bowser Jr is uninteresting, yet Toad is any better. (Which seems odd to me, since Bowser Jr. has a established personality, while Toad doesn't really) Also as far as I'm concerend, a character who has moves that come naturally makes more sense to put in the game over someone who you have to make up a bunch of junk for.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I don't think Sakurai cares if Bowser Jr. is more important than Toad. He does not seem like the type who cares about that. If he finds the character very interesting, he is more likely to add them in Smash. Bowser Jr. is not very interesting. He is basically an updated Baby Bowser and if Bowser Jr. gets in over Toad in SSB4, it would likely be because Sakurai was lazy to come up with an original moveset and used Bowser Jr. as a last-minute filler clone. Also, Sakurai didn't sound like he was interested in Bowser Jr. from what I read his trophy. His trophy just tells us his roles in Mario games. But when it came to Toad's trophy, not only was his roles in Mario games mentioned but also his abilities from SMB2. To me, it seems to have that "will he ever fight again?" feel to it.

Shadow Ma-- oh wait Sakurai would probably make a faster Bowser clone and a Mario clone in one Sakurai doesn't really care about much of potential or importance (besides main characters) he just finds something he likey and puts it in. I'm just guessing considering past experiences. So why not slap all three BJ/SM Toad and PM w/o any of them being clones so everyone's happy

 

[Big-Cat]

You know its technically only your own opinion that Bowser Jr is uninteresting, yet Toad is any better. (Which seems odd to me, since Bowser Jr. has a established personality, while Toad doesn't really) Also as far as I'm concerend, a character who has moves that come naturally makes more sense to put in the game over someone who you have to make up a bunch of junk for.

I think Toad has a personality, but you just see it in pieces over time.

 

[Arcadenik]

You know its technically only your own opinion that Bowser Jr is uninteresting, yet Toad is any better. (Which seems odd to me, since Bowser Jr. has a established personality, while Toad doesn't really) Also as far as I'm concerend, a character who has moves that come naturally makes more sense to put in the game over someone who you have to make up a bunch of junk for.

So, it is okay to make up a bunch of junk for Mona, a Wario character who never participated in a real adventure game as a playable character, but it is not okay to make up a bunch of junk for Toad, a Mario character who have participated in a real adventure game as a playable character more than once? Yeah, okay.

I don't understand what you mean.... Toad does not really have an established personality? Toad is always cowardly but will rise to the occasion to help Mario whenever necessary and shown himself to be a fair leader to the other Toads (the Toad Brigade).

 

[BSP]

The most obvious fixes are no more clones. That means a lot of work is going to be needed for Fox, Falco, and Wolf. I don't even know why Gannon is a clone. I am not sure how to fix the space animals but I have some ideas for Gannondorf.

I wouldnt consider the spacies as clones. Anyway, I still wish they would stop trying to make mario the most balenced person. And more sonic people in.

 

[Clownbot]

Guys, whether or not a character could easily be made into a clone is irrelevant.

1. Every character (not just in games, but almost everywhere) has the potential to be original. Again, this is irrelevant, I'm just saying it for a lot of the naysayers who think there's no way a certain character can get in without being cloned. MYM is sufficient proof for this.

2. Sakurai and the developers for Brawl have made it pretty clear that they don't care about the clone issue that much. It's not a really sturdy argument to say a character can't get in because they'd surely be a clone, because Sakurai doesn't care whether or not the character is or isn't cloneable.

3. Just as every character has potential to be original, I'm fairly certain most popular candidates could easily be a slightly tweaked clone of an existing character in Brawl. Don't belive me? One word: Ganondorf.

 

[Wizzerd]

Actually, I'd rather have no Paper Mario at all. That way, he would be a fantastic SSB5 candidate, and sure to be implemented early in development with his own moveset. But that's just me.

Ah, but does Sakurai think like this? He'll more likely be thinking that more people would be pleased to see a character be a clone than not be in at all. Otherwise, Falco, Ganondorf, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Roy and Young Link wouldn't be in Melee, and to a lesser extent Toon Link in Brawl.

Seeing as how 1. he's meh fav character 2. first game I EVER played ALL the way through was PM64 3. He's my most wanted character for SSB (cuz he's my fav duh) I would rather have no PM than a cloned PM. It sucks that it would have to be that way (unless he's not cloned w/ time) but it's for best

What impact does this have on Sakurai? Clearly he disagrees, or the aforementioned characters wouldn't exist.

Just forget about Geno. He is not important to Mario, Nintendo, and Square Enix.

As for Paper Mario, it is possible he could be a clone or even a semi-clone of regular Mario when it comes to specials.

B: he pulls out the Fire Flower from the Paper Mario games and uses it like a flamethrower like how the Fire Flower of the Smash games does.

Side B: he sends out the Pixl called Fleep to flip the projectiles and characters the opposite direction.

Up B: he does the same Super Jump Punch

Down B: he could spin around to attack... I remember there was a badge in the first Paper Mario that would allow you to attack first by spinning into an enemy.

Final Smash: I would rather see him iturn into Mega Mario, a giant 2D sprite of the SMB Mario, than to use Mario's Final Smash.

Still, I prefer Toad over Paper Mario. I don't really want another version of Mario (Dr. Mario, Paper Mario) and a mini-Bowser (Bowser Jr.)

You're a bit late to the punch...

EDIT: Totally agreed, Clownbot. D:

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Guys, whether or not a character could easily be made into a clone is irrelevant.

1. Every character (not just in games, but almost everywhere) has the potential to be original. Again, this is irrelevant, I'm just saying it for a lot of the naysayers who think there's no way a certain character can get in without being cloned. MYM is sufficient proof for this.

2. Sakurai and the developers for Brawl have made it pretty clear that they don't care about the clone issue that much. It's not a really sturdy argument to say a character can't get in because they'd surely be a clone, because Sakurai doesn't care whether or not the character is or isn't cloneable.

3. Just as every character has potential to be original, I'm fairly certain most popular candidates could easily be a slightly tweaked clone of an existing character in Brawl. Don't belive me? One word: Ganondorf.

You're right about this. Whether or not any characters have moveset potential, no one can predict which ones will be turned into clones next time.

But as long as any clones can get Luigified, I don't mind that too much.

 

[Arcadenik]

Since Sakurai does not care about the clone issue, we can expect to see Bowser Jr. in SSB4, right? *sighs*

 

[drag0nscythe]

Given enough time, Sakurai would have no clones. He has established that with his comments. He mainly goes off of characters who are interesting, requested and his own personal preference (with the last one taking up about 80% of his choice)

Given that, I would say that the next smash will have about the same number of clones as brawl.

We do not need paper mario. It is like wanting both Animated Batman and The Dark Knight Batman playable in the same game. It is just the directors different interpretation.

 

[lordvaati]

Massive popularity is the ONLY popularity when it comes to Smash Bros. The only reason Master Chief isn't in is because it's more trouble than it's worth to ask Microsoft to borrow things. Nobody can ask, Microsoft has to beg. So if anything he'd be in the same way Snake got in.

no, it's because there is no chance in hell that a First party character would appear in Smash. plus, borrowing
series from Microsoft would be unwise-they released Mechassault for the DS once....and it sucked.

You're a bit late to the punch...

EDIT: Totally agreed, Clownbot. D:

you're late too- it's been done in MUGEN.

 

[Wizzerd]

Since Sakurai does not care about the clone issue, we can expect to see Bowser Jr. in SSB4, right? *sighs*

Bowser Jr. is not automatically a clone because he has Bowser in his name (ditto for Paper Mario), and the point is that being clonable is helpful on top of having the potential for a unique moveset, as it means that there's a possibility to be added in both stages of development.

@drag0nscythe: Just like wanting regular and medical Mario and older and younger Link, eh?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Bowser Jr. is not automatically a clone because he has Bowser in his name (ditto for Paper Mario), and the point is that being clonable is helpful on top of having the potential for a unique moveset, as it means that there's a possibility to be added in both stages of development.

@drag0nscythe: Just like wanting regular and medical Mario and older and younger Link, eh?

Doc should have been a costume. We do not need him as a stand alone character.
Toon link was a waste of a place, but he can be considered his own character.

And I never wanted them. They just showed up.

 

[Arcadenik]

Bowser Jr. is not automatically a clone because he has Bowser in his name (ditto for Paper Mario), and the point is that being clonable is helpful on top of having the potential for a unique moveset, as it means that there's a possibility to be added in both stages of development.

Did I ever say Bowser Jr. would be a clone because he has "Bowser" in his name? No, I didn't. I think he would be a clone because he looks like a miniature Bowser. He is more likely going to be a Bowser clone than an unique character.

Edit: I wanted Toon Link in Brawl. I really did because I really thought he would be decloned from Link. I was wrong and I have grown to accept that. Toon Link is one of my mains in Brawl... Link is not that good, though. I also wanted Lucas to replace Ness because I did not think Mother needed two reps even though I knew he would end up with Ness's old moveset.... but it turned out I was half-right.... Lucas ended up a semi-clone of Ness and Ness is still in. But I have grown to accept that and both Lucas and Ness are some of my mains. The only clones I don't like are the Star Fox characters. I even grew to accept Ganondorf's status as a semi-clone and I don't mind it. But I do not want more clones in SSB4. The clones can stay but I don't want any new clones and so I am not supporting Bowser Jr.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Did I ever say Bowser Jr. would be a clone because he has "Bowser" in his name? No, I didn't. I think he would be a clone because he looks like a miniature Bowser. He is more likely going to be a Bowser clone than an unique character.

That is why Ganondorf was a clone of Falcon.
And Falco was a clone of Fox.

Hell, that is the reason Toon Link is a clone of Link.

Sakurai loves to cut corners like that.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I just thought of something to consider: in the event that Lara Croft ever gets considered for a guest fighter (arguable), will she be a representative of Square-Enix? I mean, Eidos was bought by Squenix some time ago, not to mention that the Eidos brand name will apparently stop to exist.

Still, it boggles the mind...

 

[Smash_Bro.]

i d add Dr. Mario s costumes(5) to Mario s..No difference at all exept fire balls/pills

Boo, Megaman,Knuckles,Tails, Geno and much more characters would be great

A random character switch : you could tunr OFF some characters you dont want to be in random...in accordance with players NAMES..pretty much like controls

And a lot of things already written before !(So many pages...)