[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[.WC.]

Wow I missed like 5 pages.

I wanted Toon Link in Brawl. I really did because I really thought he would be decloned from Link. I was wrong and I have grown to accept that. Toon Link is one of my mains in Brawl... Link is not that good, though.

I knew Toon Link would be a clone. I knew since Young Link. Also, as for Link... he's actually decent if you know how to use him. He only really sucks when your opponent knows how to exploit his weaknesses. Being he's heavy and his **** recovery.


As for the Bowser Jr. thing going on here, he has a great chance of getting in. But seriously, saying that he'd be cloned is almost like saying Paper Mario would be cloned. Which he won't.

 

[.WC.]

i d add Dr. Mario s costumes(5) to Mario s..No difference at all exept fire balls/pills

Boo, Megaman,Knuckles,Tails, Geno and much more characters would be great

A random character switch : you could tunr OFF some characters you dont want to be in random...in accordance with players NAMES..pretty much like controls

And a lot of things already written before !(So many pages...)

Doc should attribute Melee qualities. No spike fair, electric fsmash (defibrillator), and medical tarp cape. Also pills, obviousl.

Knuckles and Tails NO. Geno and Megaman YES. Boo assist trophy.

That's a good idea, actually. It kind of screws your opponents when they want to play random, though. You can set the random chars to your mains.

 

[Wizzerd]

Doc should have been a costume. We do not need him as a stand alone character.
Toon link was a waste of a place, but he can be considered his own character.

And I never wanted them. They just showed up.

Opinion! You may think that being an alternate form automatically disqualifies you, but Sakurai must not, or otherwise Dr. Mario, Young Link and Toon Link would have never gotten in. If you think there are no standards for last minute additions because there aren't many of them, don't, as Sakurai has proven to us by making an evil overlord a clone of a race car driver that he can make clones out of whoever he wants and he has lots to choose from for clones. Your bias has nothing to do with it.

Did I ever say Bowser Jr. would be a clone because he has "Bowser" in his name? No, I didn't. I think he would be a clone because he looks like a miniature Bowser. He is more likely going to be a Bowser clone than an unique character.

It was a figure of speech, by which I meant that you think that Bowser Jr. having similarities to Bowser would make him identical to Bowser. Besides, Bowser Jr. could possibly be a Luigified Bowser but it's feasibly impossible to make him a direct clone. Bowser Jr. can't have more power or range than Bowser and due to the way hitboxes work he can't have more priority either. He would have to be sped up to a point of ridiculousness for him to even be Luigified. Why put so much work into a clone?

EDIT: .WC., the edit button misses you. D:

 

[.WC.]

EDIT: .WC., the edit button misses you. D:

Sorry. >.<

 

[drag0nscythe]

Wow I missed like 5 pages.



I knew Toon Link would be a clone. I knew since Young Link. Also, as for Link... he's actually decent if you know how to use him. He only really sucks when your opponent knows how to exploit his weaknesses. Being he's heavy and his **** recovery.


As for the Bowser Jr. thing going on here, he has a great chance of getting in. But seriously, saying that he'd be cloned is almost like saying Paper Mario would be cloned. Which he won't.

*Looks at Ganondorf*
*Looks at Landmasters*
*Looks at Toon Link*

*Looks at PM*

Paper Mario has a very good chance of being a clone (if he even gets in.)
I do not think it so much with Bowser Jr, but if Sakurai needed to fill out the roster quickly, then he can get the clone stamp.

Look at Ganondorf for that. Bowser Jr. is very similar in structure to Bowser. There is nothing stopping him from rushing Bowser jr. in the last minute as a small bowser.

Opinion! You may think that being an alternate form automatically disqualifies you, but Sakurai must not, or otherwise Dr. Mario, Young Link and Toon Link would have never gotten in. If you think there are no standards for last minute additions because there aren't many of them, don't, as Sakurai has proven to us by making an evil overlord a clone of a race car driver that he can make clones out of whoever he wants and he has lots to choose from for clones. Your bias has nothing to do with it.

Uh. Easy clones anyone?

 

[Wizzerd]

Sorry. >.<

No problem.

Paper Mario has a very good chance of being a clone (if he even gets in.)

Why? Clones are added in late in development. Given that Paper Mario has plenty of potential for his own moveset, if he isn't added late in development, there would be no reason for him to be a clone.

As I've said before, the potential to be a clone is helpful. What isn't helpful is when you can't be anything but (which is a rare case, any character can be given a unique moveset really.)

 

[drag0nscythe]

Why? Clones are added in late in development. Given that Paper Mario has plenty of potential for his own moveset, if he isn't added late in development, there would be no reason for him to be a clone.

As I've said before, the potential to be a clone is helpful. What isn't helpful is when you can't be anything but (which is a rare case, any character can be given a unique moveset really.)

All characters have great potential for a moveset. That is not a valid point.

 

[.WC.]

*Looks at Ganondorf*
*Looks at Landmasters*
*Looks at Toon Link*

*Looks at PM*

Paper Mario has a very good chance of being a clone (if he even gets in.)
I do not think it so much with Bowser Jr, but if Sakurai needed to fill out the roster quickly, then he can get the clone stamp.

Look at Ganondorf for that. Bowser Jr. is very similar in structure to Bowser. There is nothing stopping him from rushing Bowser jr. in the last minute as a small bowser.

Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. both have equally good chances because they're both popular and original.

It won't be our fault if Sakurai decides to be a lazy fudgepacker. But honestly, Paper Mario is teeming with originality, so I can't imagine that Sakurai couldn't get an original move set for him.

 

[Arcadenik]

Ewww... no to Lara Croft. Though that would inspire rule 34 of her and Zero Suit Samus and/or Snake.

Back to the clone issue, I agree that Sakurai tends to cut corners. But that is only when he wants to add some last-minute fillers to increase the roster number after he's done adding all the unique characters he wanted to add from the beginning of the game development.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. both have equally good chances because they're both popular and original.

It won't be our fault if Sakurai decides to be a lazy fudgepacker. But honestly, Paper Mario is teeming with originality, so I can't imagine that Sakurai couldn't get an original move set for him.

Not really. All his moves are grounded in some way to established mario canon. All they did was make a few RPG moves out of it.

They did if for sonic, and all he does is spin.

Ewww... no to Lara Croft. Though that would inspire rule 34 of her and Zero Suit Samus and/or Snake.

Back to the clone issue, I agree that Sakurai tends to cut corners. But that is only when he wants to add some last-minute fillers to increase the roster number after he's done adding all the unique characters he wanted to add from the beginning of the game development.

Which is true. I would rank the list as

Bowser Jr.
Toad
Paper Mario.

 

[Kholdstare]

Black Knight for SSB4.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad is popular and original, too. But people like to ignore it and rally for either Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario.

 

[.WC.]

Not really. All his moves are grounded in some way to established mario canon. All they did was make a few RPG moves out of it.

They did if for sonic, and all he does is spin.

I'm sure I could make a complete set for Paper Mario. (minus all the technical crap).

Toad is popular and original, too. But people like to ignore it and rally for either Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario.

Toad is better than Daisy, at least.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I'm sure I could make a complete set for Paper Mario. (minus all the technical crap).

Heck I already have and not a single move is the same as Mario's, I don't think it's even close.

But It would take a while to post and I don't have the time right now I may be able to post it some time tomorrow if ya want me to.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Heck I already have and not a single move is the same as Mario's, I don't think it's even close.

But It would take a while to post and I don't have the time right now I may be able to post it some time tomorrow if ya want me to.

Post it then. Just moves pertaining to paper mario. Not any of the helpers.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, let's just face it.... Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and even Dr. Mario have the highest chances out of all Mario characters to become playable in SSB4. Daisy, Waluigi, Rosalina, Birdo, Toadette, Toadsworth, the Koopalings, King Boo, Petey Piranha, and everyone else just have no chance at all. The best they can achieve is become an Assist Trophy or a boss.

 

[Clownbot]

Well, let's just face it.... Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and even Dr. Mario have the highest chances out of all Mario characters to become playable in SSB4. Daisy, Waluigi, Rosalina, Birdo, Toadette, Toadsworth, the Koopalings, King Boo, Petey Piranha, and everyone else just have no chance at all. The best they can achieve is become an Assist Trophy or a boss.

Hey, by the time SSB4 comes out, or is even announced, a lot can change. Rosalina could become a frontrunner in the Mario series like Bowser Jr. before Brawl, Waluigi/Daisy could get a canonical game role.....

 

[.WC.]

Hey, by the time SSB4 comes out, or is even announced, a lot can change. Rosalina could become a frontrunner in the Mario series like Bowser Jr. before Brawl, Waluigi/Daisy could get a canonical game role.....

Rosalina moveset?

 

[xceed_xcel]

Well, let's just face it.... Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and even Dr. Mario have the highest chances out of all Mario characters to become playable in SSB4. Daisy, Waluigi, Rosalina, Birdo, Toadette, Toadsworth, the Koopalings, King Boo, Petey Piranha, and everyone else just have no chance at all. The best they can achieve is become an Assist Trophy or a boss.

i agree although can anyone tell me the difference between dr.mario and mario

 

[Clownbot]

i agree although can anyone tell me the difference between dr.mario and mario

Dr. Mario is Mario, but he wears a doctor's outfit.

 

[.WC.]

i agree although can anyone tell me the difference between dr.mario and mario

There is none. Dr. Mario was created as a clone character merely for hype.

He didn't have anything special about him except pills and his outfit. Change his fsmash, fair and cape, change some statistics and vuala. The doc.

 

[SixrchBattosai]

Personally, I would like to see Paper Mario in there. He's a cool character, albeit he might be a clone. Emphasis on "might." He could use his Ultra Hammer and Ultra Boots from Paper Mario 1.

Maybe, he could use his partners from the game. Bow's my personal favorite.

There could also be a kind of Pokemon Trainer-esque atmosphere to him. He could stand in the background and cheer on his partners as they fought for him.

If any of the 2 suggestions above are made into the Fourth Smash Bros., I would personally suggest one hiding character such as Bow or Vivian, one long-range character like Koops or Parakarry, and one Teaser character like Goombario or that main fairy-thing from Super Paper Mario.

I'd also like to see Toon Zelda/Sheik become a reality. It would be interesting to see a Realistic Zelda vs. Toon Zelda fight. Toon Sheik would be a bit strange, though. She wasn't ever featured as a toon, so it be a bit weird to see her like that. But it would also be kinda cool. I'd like to see Toon Sheik Vanishing her way around the stage.

Well, I have to go to bed right now, but I will finish this post in the morning or after school.

 

[Arcadenik]

There is none. Dr. Mario was created as a clone character merely for hype.

He didn't have anything special about him except pills and his outfit. Change his fsmash, fair and cape, change some statistics and vuala. The doc.

LULZ that almost sounds like vulva!

Edit: Okay, that was spam. Anyway, we should not even be discussing Daisy, Waluigi, Rosalina, and everyone else. They are not in the competition.

So far, I see New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story.... we have three new main Mario games coming out after Brawl. I guess we will find out how important Bowser Jr. and Toad (and Rosalina) are in these games sooner or later.

 

[xceed_xcel]

I'd also like to see Toon Zelda/Sheik become a reality. It would be interesting to see a Realistic Zelda vs. Toon Zelda fight. Toon Sheik would be a bit strange, though. She wasn't ever featured as a toon, so it be a bit weird to see her like that. But it would also be kinda cool. I'd like to see Toon Sheik Vanishing her way around the stage.

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER ALERT TO WIND WAKER
in wind waker tetra ended up being zelda so it would be toon zelda/tetra in stead of toon zelda/sheik
END OF SPOILER

 

[Pieman0920]

One would assume, that even if Paper Mario were to be a clone of sorts, that he'd at least have a different neutral B, forward Smash, and Final Smash, given Sakurai's statements that it would seem wierd for Doc to shoot fire. If its odd for a doctor to shoot fire, then certainly it'd be odd for a man made of paper to shoot it as well.

 

[Arcadenik]

But Paper Mario can shoot fireballs from Fire Flowers. He did that in his games. He could just pull out a Fire Flower and shoot a fireball from it.

As for Mario's Cape, Paper Mario could have just used Fleep, a Pixl from Super Paper Mario, to flip projectiles and characters to the opposite direction.

 

[Zario777]

You know what? Most ppl say that ppl turn out as clones because they are added at the "last minute". Whoever said that they were gonna be the last characters added? (like Bowser Jr. Paper Mario, whoever you say will be added last minute) The clones in SSBB were clones because they announced the game in 2006(?) 2007(?) (I don't remember) so that gave ppl a bunch of hype for a game they really wanted. So of course Sakurai and company are gonna get bugged and stressed with a bunch of suggestions all around the world and when the due date comes near, they will have to half @$$ some characters or delay the game. I bet if they don't give a release date until they are finished, they can take in suggestions (if they want) and add/tweak the game or characters.

About Ganon being a clone, I think that CF is a clone of him (hear me out on this). None of CF's smashes in SSB are the same as Ganon's in Melee. Theres a slight possibility that they made Ganon's smashes 1st, then cloned CF's smashes off of that (possibly).

I'm gonna take a challenge and make Paper Mario an original moveset that doesn't clone Mario's OR use partners at all (call me crazy). That includes specials and his FS.

 

[SmashChu]

One would assume, that even if Paper Mario were to be a clone of sorts, that he'd at least have a different neutral B, forward Smash, and Final Smash, given Sakurai's statements that it would seem wierd for Doc to shoot fire. If its odd for a doctor to shoot fire, then certainly it'd be odd for a man made of paper to shoot it as well.

No, because he's still Mario in everyone's mind. There was fire in Paper Mario.

My whole problem with the idea is Paper Mario is a niche segment of Mario. If your going to add a Mario character, why go for the smallest segment. Geno at least has a lot of fans. Dr. Mario is part of a bigger segment as was in Melee. How is Paper Mario really worth anyone's time.

Truthfully, I don't think people will find him fun.

 

[Starphoenix]

No, because he's still Mario in everyone's mind. There was fire in Paper Mario.

My whole problem with the idea is Paper Mario is a niche segment of Mario. If your going to add a Mario character, why go for the smallest segment. Geno at least has a lot of fans. Dr. Mario is part of a bigger segment as was in Melee. How is Paper Mario really worth anyone's time.

Truthfully, I don't think people will find him fun.

Most people see him as some sort of spin off character like Megaman and Megaman X. Whether it is correct or not is beyond the point.

Paper Mario has a lot more going for him than you want to give him credit for, as far as I can tell it is still a thriving series. Geno is not popular outside of the internet and Dr. Mario is not the powerhouse he used to be. Even Melee alone is not enough to carry him seeing as how he had lukewarm appeal.

Whether you "think" people would find him fun or not is moot, after all, who thought R.O.B would be fun? Or Game and Watch? It really comes down to your own opinion.

 

[SixrchBattosai]

Like I said, he *might* be a clone. I never said he *would* be a clone. The only similarities he would have would be his Super Jump. He would possibly be comparable to Luigi in terms of being a Mario clone. Having one or two similar moves, but the rest are original. That being said, I withdraw that first idea of him being a clone.

About Toon Zelda/Sheik, there actually was some unused data on the Brawl disc that people found that were for a Toon Zelda/Sheik. That's all I was talking about, really.

EDIT: About StarPhoenix's Geno comment, it's very true. I asked most of my friends if they knew Geno, and they had little to no clue about who he was. I, myself, didn't even know that he existed until a few months ago. But now that I know who he is, I have to say that he would be a good choice for a Smash Bros. character.

Edit 2: For BBQTV--http://photic.slimemansion.com/windcrystal/image/geno.jpg

 

[BBQTV]

someone show me a pic of Geno

 

[Riickable]

Why do so many people want insignificant characters playable when they don't deserve to be? It takes weight away from the characters that actually do deserve it.

Said the R.o.B mainer.

Anywhoo, I couldn't be ***** reading through 1,600 pages so I'll just say practically what everyone else has.

Better Online, if MK-Wii can do it, Brawl can.
Keep Sakurai, games aren't meant to be designed for competitive play, f4gg0ts.
More characters, duh. I want a crazy number for higher replay value and my mains being more unique.
Lastly, more focus on stages. The most important thing in the game, IMO.

Oh and Luigi and Mario deserve to be clones, they're Nintendos biggest stars and have always been practically the same in every game they've appeared in. Common sense nubs.

 

[n88]

Oh and Luigi and Mario deserve to be clones, they're Nintendos biggest stars and have always been practically the same in every game they've appeared in. Common sense nubs.

Actually, Mario and Luigi aren't really considered clones anymore. Luigified has become a term used to describe a character who started out as a clone, but has become more differentaiated from the template.

@BBQTV

 

[Wizzerd]

All characters have great potential for a moveset. That is not a valid point.

Reading comprehension. I said this myself. Paper Mario has the potential to be a clone, but it would make a grand total of no sense to add him as a clone when there's plenty of time to give him his own moveset. Late development clones is a seperate thing, and it gives Paper Mario a backup plan of sorts should Sakurai not add him earlier.

 

[n88]

So basically, the different Mario candidates for SSB4 are completely undecided. These are the ones with above 0% chance:

Locks:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser

(Well, duh)

Possibilities:

Bowser Jr. (Possible Shadow Mario alt.)
Toad
Dr. Mario
Paper Mario
Rosalina
Waluigi
Daisy

The last three on that list are very controversial, but hear me out. Rosalina, I include because she has the potential to become important, especially with Galaxy 2 on the way.

Waluigi, while he could not be more insignificant, has a lot of popularity. If he was not the highest-ranked Mario character on the Brawl polls, I will eat my hat.

Daisy could potnetially be added as a filler clone (Of Peach). Also, she could end up being important if Nintendo makes more Luigi games.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well they could change the deadline/release date, they did w/ Brawl

FF?

They could but they cannot delay the game over and over again just to add completely original and unique characters. It is a double-edged sword.

Case #1 - delay the game over and over again to add unique characters.... but ends up making the fans whine about the game being delayed even though they wanted no more clones

Case #2 - delay the game once or twice to add a few clones and one unique character... but ends up making the fans whine about the game having MOAR clones even though they got the game NOW

 

[n88]

Arcadenik, you know that Miyamoto will delay the game as he sees fit, regardless of who whines about it.

EDIT: Also, Miyamoto for SSB4!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So basically, the different Mario candidates for SSB4 are completely undecided. These are the ones with above 0% chance:

Locks:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser

(Well, duh)

Possibilities:

Bowser Jr. (Possible Shadow Mario alt.)
Toad
Dr. Mario
Paper Mario
Rosalina
Waluigi
Daisy

The last three on that list are very controversial, but hear me out. Rosalina, I include because she has the potential to become important, especially with Galaxy 2 on the way.

Waluigi, while he could not be more insignificant, has a lot of popularity. If he was not the highest-ranked Mario character on the Brawl polls, I will eat my hat.

Daisy could potnetially be added as a filler clone (Of Peach). Also, she could end up being important if Nintendo makes more Luigi games.

Rosalina may be a possibility.

Waluigi and Daisy, on the other hand, might not have that chance. They might show up one day, but it's not too certain. As for more Luigi games, we were lucky to even get one, so let's cross our fingers and hope for the best.

By the way, in my opinion, Daisy should use some moves from Super Mario Strikers, since Peach uses moves from the Mario sports spin-off games herself (golf club and tennis racket).

Daisy should also have a more scruffy A moveset to differ her from Peach a bit. I mean, she is a tomboy, after all.

Waluigi could certainly have a chance...if he actually started getting more important roles. What gives, Miyamoto?

Oh, and, just asking, will you eat your hat with salt or ketchup?

Hey, by the time SSB4 comes out, or is even announced, a lot can change. Rosalina could become a frontrunner in the Mario series like Bowser Jr. before Brawl, Waluigi/Daisy could get a canonical game role.....

The day that Waluigi/Daisy get a canonical role will be the day that Ubisoft gets bought by Naughty Dog...

Which isn't so likely, of course. It'd be neat if they were in, though.

 

[n88]

@KirbyWorshipper

I don't think that Waluigi will be getting a canon role. I think that sheer popularity will force him in as is. You might have noticed that Waluigi is on the majority of all the wishlists that random people post in the thread all the time. Daisy might need another canon appearance, though. Also, I prefer mustard.

 

[Arcadenik]

Arcadenik, you know that Miyamoto will delay the game as he sees fit, regardless of who whines about it.

EDIT: Also, Miyamoto for SSB4!

That's different. Miyamoto delays the game whenever he wants to improve the game. Brawl was delayed twice and we still have clones. Clearly, Miyamoto does not see anything wrong with having clones. In Miyamoto's and Sakurai's eyes, Brawl is perfect... the problem with Brawl lies within the fans who want certain characters and don't want certain characters. Most of the complaints are about the roster choices.