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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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n88

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His game was mediocre, not much reason to include him other to please fans.
I'll assume you were referring to Roy. The entire logic behind the creation of the roster is to please fans. Seems like a good reason to me.

@Arcadenik

Yes, I would rather see a bunch of last-minute clones than a last-minute original character. I would have preferred the addition of, say, Dr. Mario, Roy, Toon Zelda/Sheik, and Dark Samus over just Sonic. I wouldn't mind seeing them differentiated froom their templates more than the Melee clones, but I still find this preferable.

The only way a clone character bothers me is if that clone shouldn't be a clone. If a clone can get just a few bigger tweaks to their moveset (in addition to different damage, KB, priority properties on most moves), then they will play very differently from their template. Toon Link, a character with almost no variation in terms of moveset from Link, plays very, very differently. I don't like TL being a clone, but this is a good example of how a clone can play differently from a template.
 

Pieman0920

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I'll assume you were referring to Roy. The entire logic behind the creation of the roster is to please fans. Seems like a good reason to me.
Then he shouldn't get in. Roy is only really popular with people who actually aren't fan's of FE, but rather those who know nothing about it, and just like him for his aethetics. The only thing he has going for him is that he showed up in Smash before, and if that really was enough, he would have gotten into friggen Brawl, yet we all know how that worked out.

@SmashChu

I don't know much about Rythem Heaven, but do you just mean that it should be represented by music of a stage or something? As far as I know, there's no real character to use there.
 

n88

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Then he shouldn't get in. Roy is only really popular with people who actually aren't fan's of FE, but rather those who know nothing about it, and just like him for his aethetics. The only thing he has going for him is that he showed up in Smash before, and if that really was enough, he would have gotten into friggen Brawl, yet we all know how that worked out.
Actually, he does have one other thing going for him: He's an established clone. He wouldn't take all that long to make.

What's the public opinion on the adventure mode for SSB4? I wouldn't mind seeing SSE return, but I'd really rather see something SSE-like, but shorter (Comparable to Melee's adventure), and would be unique to each character. Hopefully, the adventure isn't like Melee's again.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Actually, he does have one other thing going for him: He's an established clone. He wouldn't take all that long to make.

What's the public opinion on the adventure mode for SSB4? I wouldn't mind seeing SSE return, but I'd really rather see something SSE-like, but shorter (Comparable to Melee's adventure), and would be unique to each character. Hopefully, the adventure isn't like Melee's again.
Yeah, Melee's adventure mode was neat, but the whole "romping through random places for no apparent reason aside beating Bowser in Final Destination" thing kinda bugged me a bit.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing SSE again. Hopefully, they'll actually use other Nintendo-related enemies and locations next time.

That said, Prima Games actually thought that one of the stages took place in Hyrule. Talk about not doing your research (either that, or they need glasses). :rolleyes:

Your idea for an SSE-esque adventure mode for each character sounds good, though.
 

SmashChu

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@SmashChu
I don't know much about Rythem Heaven, but do you just mean that it should be represented by music of a stage or something? As far as I know, there's no real character to use there.
Karate Joe (I'd get more info if I didn't have to go to work)
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Roy is only really popular with people who actually aren't fan's of FE, but rather those who know nothing about it, and just like him for his aethetics. The only thing he has going for him is that he showed up in Smash before, and if that really was enough, he would have gotten into friggen Brawl, yet we all know how that worked out.

FE fans love Roy. As a unit? No, but as character? Definitely. He's why most of them are fans to begin with. I know you have this weird obsession with Roy only being liked for having red hair, but people aren't as stupid as you think. He's not "Fire Marth."


Consider these three things for Roy:

1. He was planned to be in Brawl and made it further than anyone other than Mewtwo. Sakurai seemed to lament the fact that he couldn't include more characters given the time schedule he was working with. His exclusion wasn't intended.

2. Before FE7, Roy and Marth were the entire series to people outside of Japan. I don't think you're appreciating the value of his appearance in Melee enough. It's like a child recognizing its parents; the ones you're familiar with at first are the ones you care about the most. People still consider Fire Emblem as Marth, Roy, and Ike, and they're not as quick to forget as you might think. This should be obvious given the fuss over his exclusion.

3. This is more of a reason to not necessarily expect a new Lord rather than expect Roy to return, but anyway. I'm sure you've seen this interview before, where the FE team suggests that they want to make a new game that appeals to a much wider audience (which is a good idea since FE games right now don't sell very well for such a venerable series). They're also interested in an all-star cast from the previous games. Sounds like a good opportunity to bring together the three characters people know from Smash Bros., doesn't it?



^--- I'd buy it
 

Starphoenix

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FE fans love Roy. As a unit? No, but as character? Definitely. He's why most of them are fans to begin with. I know you have this weird obsession with Roy only being liked for having red hair, but people aren't as stupid as you think. He's not "Fire Marth."


Consider these three things for Roy:

1. He was planned to be in Brawl and made it further than anyone other than Mewtwo. Sakurai seemed to lament the fact that he couldn't include more characters given the time schedule he was working with. His exclusion wasn't intended.

2. Before FE7, Roy and Marth were the entire series to people outside of Japan. I don't think you're appreciating the value of his appearance in Melee enough. It's like a child recognizing its parents; the ones you're familiar with at first are the ones you care about the most. People still consider Fire Emblem as Marth, Roy, and Ike, and they're not as quick to forget as you might think. This should be obvious given the fuss over his exclusion.

3. This is more of a reason to not necessarily expect a new Lord rather than expect Roy to return, but anyway. I'm sure you've seen this interview before, where the FE team suggests that they want to make a new game that appeals to a much wider audience (which is a good idea since FE games right now don't sell very well for such a venerable series). They're also interested in an all-star cast from the previous games. Sounds like a good opportunity to bring together the three characters people know from Smash Bros., doesn't it?



^--- I'd buy it
Now that you mention it I do remember Sakurai mentioning how disappointed he could not add more characters. Maybe he was referring to Roy and Mewtwo in particular? Guess we will not know for now.

In regards to the Fire Emblem game I hope they do make that all star Fire Emblem, I would love to see what lords would appear.

Marth, Roy, Ike, Lyn, and Ephraim; that is just too much for my wittle heart to handle!
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
Now that you mention it I do remember Sakurai mentioning how disappointed he could not add more characters. Maybe he was referring to Roy and Mewtwo in particular? Guess we will not know for now.

In regards to the Fire Emblem game I hope they do make that all star Fire Emblem, I would love to see what lords would appear.

Marth, Roy, Ike, Lyn, and Ephraim; that is just too much for my wittle heart to handle!
Starphoenix, did you forget to mention Eliwood, Eirika, Micaiah, and Sothe, and maybe Cecilia and Leaf (though those two are probably the two least important, popular, and famous FE lords/main characters)?

BTW, the FE All-Star game idea sounds gyooood.

And Monado (someone mentioned it a couple pages back) seems like a Final Fantasy rip-off so far, so I currently don't want Monado characters in Smash 4.

And I have a question: Why are Mewtwo's chances of being playable in SSB4 low even if there's no new Pokemon gen by the time SSB4 comes out?

And did Sakurai shot down the idea of Dr. Mario as an alternate costume before because he considered it "odd" for Doc to use fireballs? That's stupid; I don't find it even the least bit odd for Dr. Mario to use fireballs.
 

Starphoenix

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Starphoenix, did you forget to mention Eliwood, Eirika, Micaiah, and Sothe, and maybe Cecilia and Leaf (though those two are probably the two least important, popular, and famous FE lords/main characters)?
I didn't, I just do not care for them. Although Sothe might be cool.


And I have a question: Why are Mewtwo's chances of being playable in SSB4 low even if there's no new Pokemon gen by the time SSB4 comes out?
Because the common complaint is that the 1st generation would be over represented (though one could make the case that is the only Generation that SHOULD be represented). I think his chances are slightly better than most think, but not to the degree of being the very first person they include.

And did Sakurai shoot down the idea of Dr. Mario as an alternate costume before because he considered it "odd" for Doc to use fireballs? That's stupid; I don't find it even the least bit odd for Dr. Mario to use fireballs.
Kind of answered your own question; it would be odd to see Dr. Mario shooting fireballs instead of pills, especially after his appearance in Melee.

I am starting to think that everyone cut from Melee (minus Young Link) COULD (and I emphasize could) return in Smash 4. Pichu is about to become popular again with the new Pokémon movie (Notch-Eared Pichu) and the rerelease of HeartGold/SoulSilver, the only thing to oppose it is if Pokémon Trainer's 1st Gen starters changed to the 2nd Generation starters.

Roy and Mewtwo are missed, and not just by gamers. Also by casual people who played Melee and now play Brawl, no not to the degree of the fanboys, but enough that it shows it didn't go unnoticed.

Dr. Mario could be a true alternate character for Mario, not simply a costume change.


*awaits to be ripped apart*
 

Pieman0920

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FE fans love Roy. As a unit? No, but as character? Definitely. He's why most of them are fans to begin with. I know you have this weird obsession with Roy only being liked for having red hair, but people aren't as stupid as you think. He's not "Fire Marth."
....As a character? He's got a generic personality that most of the west doesn't even know about, since they have nothing to go off of. Really now, there's no good explination other than being a red haired fire using version of Marth, because those are the only things that truly stand out for him.

1. He was planned to be in Brawl and made it further than anyone other than Mewtwo. Sakurai seemed to lament the fact that he couldn't include more characters given the time schedule he was working with. His exclusion wasn't intended.
His exclusion was intended. Possibly not desired, but clearly intended in the very end, since he was cut. The only characters who could even pottentially have been cut despite intentions are Dixie for the technical problems she created, and maybe Mewtwo because of the Pokemon slot limit. Roy is simply a clone, and there's no technical thing holding him back, yet he wasn't important enough to make the later cuts. In addition because of the fact that he got cut in Brawl, his chances of coming on later have been shot in the foot, since the series will almost certainly keep moving forward.

2. Before FE7, Roy and Marth were the entire series to people outside of Japan. I don't think you're appreciating the value of his appearance in Melee enough. It's like a child recognizing its parents; the ones you're familiar with at first are the ones you care about the most. People still consider Fire Emblem as Marth, Roy, and Ike, and they're not as quick to forget as you might think. This should be obvious given the fuss over his exclusion.
Why shoould I? Roy was a glorified promotion for FE6, and in the end not many people liked him. And as I said, there's nothing special about him in Melee, since for the western audiance out here, few played his game, understood what he said, and he was just a clone. By this type of logic, Young Link should have stayed in instead of Toon Link, since more people played Melee than they did Wind Waker. Also given the Mario spinoffs, more people probably know Waluigi and Daisy than say Bowser Jr, so they should add him instead. The problem with this type of thinking is that disregards the series itself in favor of things from spinoffs and cameos.

3. This is more of a reason to not necessarily expect a new Lord rather than expect Roy to return, but anyway. I'm sure you've seen this interview before, where the FE team suggests that they want to make a new game that appeals to a much wider audience (which is a good idea since FE games right now don't sell very well for such a venerable series). They're also interested in an all-star cast from the previous games. Sounds like a good opportunity to bring together the three characters people know from Smash Bros., doesn't it?
Maybe, but as of yet, it hasn't happened yet. For all I know, FE4 will be brought over and Sigurd will be so popular that he's added, despite being another blue haired swordsman. For all I know, in that proposed Punch Out 2 for Wii, Doc Louise will have a major role so that he can pottentially become playable. Heck, in Golden Sun DS, the first half of the game could just be this new character, and the second half has Felix return through some time travel mumbo jumbo, thus making him the best GS rep instead of Isaac or this new guy. And as I've said before, FE12 could show up with a unique lord that ends all of these debates. Really now, whatever the future has is unknown, and can greatly change what we speculate on now, so for the sake of any type of arguments, it should be disregarded until it actually happens.
 

n88

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@Pieman

It seems unlikely to me that Sakurai's going to say, "Well, I would like to put Roy in, but since he wan't in Brawl and people only liked him for his hair. I guess I'll have to put another Fire Emblem character in."

Plus, you said something about not many people liking Roy (In Smash) :confused: Everybody I know loves Roy. He was more popular than Marth.
 

Pieman0920

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Well it seems unlikely to me that Sakurai would choose a character who doesn't represent the series as well as several other pottential just because he some non-fans like him due to his aethetics. What does he actually bring to the table at all really? Eliwood makes more sense, since he has the same apperance, and can actually be considered important to Fire Emblem's history as well as having a role in two games instead of one. (Though I don't think he has much of a chance either) Really, given that he was cut, and given that the he almost certainly won't show up in a game in the future makes him about as likely as Young Link all things considered, but at the very least in Young Link's case, he was in a popular game that people in the west actually got to play.
 

Starphoenix

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Has anyone seen this yet?

http://flipnote.hatena.com/5C6B19C031C9172D@DSi/movie/C9172D_090CAE04BC8C6_000?in=movies&sort=hot

I have a feeling Nintendo is paying attention. I have always believed it was likely that we would receive a Smash DS before we reached another console edition of the game. Chances are it would have a roster roughly around the same size as Melee, with a conglomerate of characters from Melee and Brawl. Some would be cut, and others possibly included again.

This is just a quick rough draft roster of what a SmashDS could look like.

Mario

Mario
Luigi
Wario
Peach

Yoshi

Yoshi

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong
King K. Rool

Legend of Zelda

Link
Gannondorf
Zelda/Sheik
Tingle

Kirby

Kirby
Metaknight

Metroid


Samus

Pokemon

Pikachu
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo

Star Fox

Fox
Wolf

F-Zero

Captain Falcon

Fire Emblem

Marth
Ike

Earthbound


Ness

Other Series

Mr. Game and Watch (Game and Watch)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Starfy (Legendary Starfy)
Isaac (Golden Sun)

Megaman

Megaman

------------------------------

All original 8 would return
7 from Melee (including Sheik)
6 from Brawl
5 new

That would amount to a roster of around 26 characters, 25 slots. This is of course simply an idea.
 
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Messages
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Marth and...Sothe? I know Sothe was pretty cool (Rouge/Thief/Assassain class needs some recognization) but cutting Ike for him? Unlikely.\

And on the Roy topic, it shouldn't matter about populariy (as much) when he is indeed, a fire marth, his animations were very similar to marth (and many other lords), and his stats were far worse. Eliwood, like pieman said, would make a better appeal to fans of Roy whoa re not FE fans, as well as a more unqie playstyle (Rapier)

EDIT: i feel the All-star game for Fe would be terrible. That is all.
 

Starphoenix

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Marth and...Sothe? I know Sothe was pretty cool (Rouge/Thief/Assassain class needs some recognization) but cutting Ike for him? Unlikely.\

And on the Roy topic, it shouldn't matter about populariy (as much) when he is indeed, a fire marth, his animations were very similar to marth (and many other lords), and his stats were far worse. Eliwood, like pieman said, would make a better appeal to fans of Roy whoa re not FE fans, as well as a more unqie playstyle (Rapier)

EDIT: i feel the All-star game for Fe would be terrible. That is all.
Isn't Sothe the next most popular (current) lord? Oh wait... I was actually trying to add someone new from Fire Emblem, maybe I will go edit my roster.

Also, Eliwood was one of the worst lords in FE history, Roy is much better than his father.
 

drag0nscythe

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Has anyone seen this yet?

http://flipnote.hatena.com/5C6B19C031C9172D@DSi/movie/C9172D_090CAE04BC8C6_000?in=movies&sort=hot

I have a feeling Nintendo is paying attention. I have always believed it was likely that we would receive a Smash DS before we reached another console edition of the game. Chances are it would have a roster roughly around the same size as Melee, with a conglomerate of characters from Melee and Brawl. Some would be cut, and others possibly included again.

This is just a quick rough draft roster of what a SmashDS could look like.

Mario

Mario
Luigi
Wario
Peach

Yoshi

Yoshi

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong
King K. Rool

Legend of Zelda

Link
Gannondorf
Zelda/Sheik
Tingle

Kirby

Kirby
Metaknight

Metroid


Samus

Pokemon

Pikachu
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo

Star Fox

Fox
Wolf

F-Zero

Captain Falcon

Fire Emblem

Marth
Ike

Earthbound


Ness

Other Series

Mr. Game and Watch (Game and Watch)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Starfy (Legendary Starfy)
Isaac (Golden Sun)

Megaman

Megaman

------------------------------

All original 8 would return
7 from Melee (including Sheik)
5 from Brawl
6 new

That would amount to a roster of around 26 characters, 25 slots. This is of course simply an idea.
While I agree with most of the DS roster, I think Tingle would not be in it. He is the kind of character that would get the go after all other series had there run. Change Tingle to Sonic.

---

Just a side not. Do not think much of it. But I think it is odd/ironic/what ever you call it that there is a project to make Roy, Mewtwo, and Pichu playable, yet I have not seen a single one on turning Boss Ridley playable.
 
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Isn't Sothe the next most popular (current) lord? Oh wait... I was actually trying to add someone new from Fire Emblem, maybe I will go edit my roster.

Also, Eliwood was one of the worst lords in FE history, Roy is much better than his father.
I wasn't bashing Sothe, I just thought Ike and Sothe could be in. I just don't see a reason to take a perfectl acceptable character. I would much prefer Sothe.

And Roy is hardly any better than his Father, And FE6's difficulty make susing him harder than using FE7's Eliwood, where the difficulty is much easier.
 

justaway12

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Mario

Mario
Luigi
Wario
Peach

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong
King K. Rool


Kirby

Kirby
Metaknight



Star Fox

Fox
Wolf


All these character rosters have, IMO a character that is missing or shouldn't be replaced.

Bowser is MUCH more important than Wario, and Wario is in his own seris anyway.

Diddy is more important than K.Rool IMO, why would they cut the second banana?

Dedede is more important than Meta-knight in game IIRC, Dedede is the main villian and Meta-knight works for him or something like that.

And Falco is the second in command right, why would anyone cut him?

Of course that's just my opinion

@Sothe: Is he even a lord? I saw a post that said that and I was curious
 

Starphoenix

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I wasn't bashing Sothe, I just thought Ike and Sothe could be in. I just don't see a reason to take a perfectl acceptable character. I would much prefer Sothe.

And Roy is hardly any better than his Father, And FE6's difficulty make susing him harder than using FE7's Eliwood, where the difficulty is much easier.
I know nothing of Sothe, I have never played PoR or RD, I just hear about him a lot so I thought he was the next most popular.

Eliwood may be easier to use, but Hector was a tank. :p


All these character rosters have, IMO a character that is missing or shouldn't be replaced.

Bowser is MUCH more important than Wario, and Wario is in his own seris anyway.

Diddy is more important than K.Rool IMO, why would they cut the second banana?

Dedede is more important than Meta-knight in game IIRC, Dedede is the main villian and Meta-knight works for him or something like that.

And Falco is the second in command right, why would anyone cut him?

Of course that's just my opinion

@Sothe: Is he even a lord?
I originally was going to cut Peach, but I figured it would not happen due to the lack of female characters as it is. Not to mention her significance, chances are we would have Bowser, Peach, and Wario. I simply cut someone to keep the roster size around Melee's size.

Diddy could return, but again the roster is going to be smaller and you cannot fit in everyone from Brawl, Melee and add new characters at the same time, characters will get cut. I think King K. Rool would be a nice addition.

Metaknight is just as, if not in some cases more so, important than King DDD.

Again, not everyone is going to get in and I think Falco could easily get cut over Wolf. It could go in the opposite direction as well not sure, Krystal could also have some influence in that matter. Tough I think it is very small.

And as I learned, no Sothe is not.


------------------------------------------------

Here is a revised roster: SSBDS V 1.1


Mario

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach

Yoshi

Yoshi

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong
King K. Rool

Legend of Zelda

Link
Gannondorf
Zelda/Sheik
Tingle

Kirby

Kirby
Metaknight

Metroid


Samus

Pokemon

Pikachu
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo

Star Fox

Fox
Wolf

F-Zero

Captain Falcon

Fire Emblem

Marth
Ike

Earthbound


Ness

Other Series

Mr. Game and Watch (Game and Watch)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Starfy (Legendary Starfy)
Isaac (Golden Sun)

Megaman

Megaman


Revisions - I added Bowser and cut Wario. Which brings our characters to:

Smash 64 + 8
Melee + 8 (including Sheik)
Brawl + 5
Smash DS exclusive + 5
=26 total characters, 25 slots

Looks like I need to balance it out further.
 

justaway12

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Metaknight is just as, if not in some cases more so, important than King DDD.

Again, not everyone is going to get in and I think Falco would easily get cut over Wolf.
How is Meta-Knight more Important, sorry but I've never played Kirby game, although from what I've heard King Dedede is the main villian, and Meta-knight works for him, or is not important as important boss.

I know not everyone is going to get in, but isn't Falco second in command, I would think you should cut Wolf and keep Falco.

But whatever
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Messages
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Why would I tell you guys that?
Has anyone seen this yet?

http://flipnote.hatena.com/5C6B19C031C9172D@DSi/movie/C9172D_090CAE04BC8C6_000?in=movies&sort=hot

I have a feeling Nintendo is paying attention. I have always believed it was likely that we would receive a Smash DS before we reached another console edition of the game. Chances are it would have a roster roughly around the same size as Melee, with a conglomerate of characters from Melee and Brawl. Some would be cut, and others possibly included again.

This is just a quick rough draft roster of what a SmashDS could look like.

Mario

Mario
Luigi
Wario
Peach

Yoshi

Yoshi

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong
King K. Rool

Legend of Zelda

Link
Gannondorf
Zelda/Sheik
Tingle

Kirby

Kirby
Metaknight

Metroid


Samus

Pokemon

Pikachu
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo

Star Fox

Fox
Wolf

F-Zero

Captain Falcon

Fire Emblem

Marth
Ike

Earthbound


Ness

Other Series

Mr. Game and Watch (Game and Watch)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Starfy (Legendary Starfy)
Isaac (Golden Sun)

Megaman

Megaman

------------------------------

All original 8 would return
7 from Melee (including Sheik)
6 from Brawl
5 new

That would amount to a roster of around 26 characters, 25 slots. This is of course simply an idea.
Bowser should be in, not Wario (who's a WW character, now; do your homework).

I don't think Tingle should get in and , as much as I want her in, I'm not sure about Sheik.

No on Meta and Wolf and yes on Falco and Dedede.

I'm not sure about Ike....

I got pretty much nothing against Megaman, but since Smash DS is going to be a spin-off title, as well as a likely remake, adding third-party characters to it doesn't seem right for some reason.
 

Starphoenix

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How is Meta-Knight more Important, sorry but I've never played Kirby game, although from what I've heard King Dedede is the main villian, and Meta-knight works for him, or is not important as important boss.

I know not everyone is going to get in, but isn't Falco second in command, I would think you should cut Wolf and keep Falco.

But whatever
In certain games (Squeak Squad comes to mind) he has been shown to be a more serious boss than King DDD. No, Metaknight does not work for him, Metaknight really does his own thing only helping those to suit his own agenda most of the time.

I don't think Falco is second in command, to my knowledge Fox is behind Peppy. Though I have not played Star Fox in a good amount of time. Wolf I do know has a lot of history with Fox and is still popular, as a plus he also happens to be more of an original fighter than Falco (minus the Land Master). Again, it is hard to pin anything down on Star Fox characters outside of Fox to how many different scenarios could play out.

Bowser should be in, not Wario (who's a WW character, now; do your homework).

I don't think Tingle should get in and , as much as I want her in, I'm not sure about Sheik.

No on Meta and Wolf and yes on Falco and Dedede.

I'm not sure about Ike....

I got pretty much nothing against Megaman, but since Smash DS is going to be a spin-off title, as well as a likely remake, adding third-party characters to it doesn't seem right for some reason.
I cut Wario, check my updated roster right above your post.

I think Tingle would, considering how popular his series is and how his games are handheld anyways. Chances are most new characters added in a SmashDS would focus on portable series vs. console series such as Pikmin.

Yes to Wolf and Metaknight.

I will admit Ike might be unlikely, he could be replaced by an updated Roy or a different lord altogether. I would like Lyn, though I doubt it.

Only why I added one, and one of the most deserving (as far as Nintendo history goes) as that.
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
In certain games (Squeak Squad comes to mind) he has been shown to be a more serious boss than King DDD. No, Metaknight does not work for him, Metaknight really does his own thing only helping those to suit his own agenda most of the time.

I don't think Falco is second in command, to my knowledge Fox is behind Peppy. Though I have not played Star Fox in a good amount of time. Wolf I do know has a lot of history with Fox and is still popular, as a plus he also happens to be more of an original fighter than Falco (minus the Land Master). Again, it is hard to pin anything down on Star Fox characters outside of Fox to how many different scenarios could play out.



I cut Wario, check my updated roster right above your post.

I think Tingle would, considering how popular his series is and how his games are handheld anyways. Chances are most new characters added in a SmashDS would focus on portable series vs. console such as Pikmin.

Yes to Wolf and Metaknight.

I will admit Ike might be unlikely, he could be replaced by an updated Roy or a different lord altogether. I would like Lyn, though I doubt it.

Only why I added one, and one of the most deserving (as far as Nintendo history goes) as that.
What about Sheik?

Maybe yes to Wolf, but not Meta; try Dedede instead.

I would prefer Lyn or Micaiah, but Roy or Ike could make the cut, and if Roy gets in instead of Lyn and Micaiah, I can likely grow to tolerate it.

And yes to Tingle and Megaman. And Megaman is not only deserving and popular, he's also likely.
 

Starphoenix

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What about Sheik?

Maybe yes to Wolf, but not Meta; try Dedede instead.

I would prefer Lyn or Micaiah, but Roy or Ike could make the cut, and if Roy gets in instead of Lyn and Micaiah, I can likely grow to tolerate it.

And yes to Tingle and Megaman. And Megaman is not only deserving and popular, he's also likely.
Oh yes Sheik, I do not see why they would need to cut her since she has been a part of Zelda's entire character. Maybe for space, outside of that I would not see it happening.

King DDD has been reduced to a joke sadly. If you are afraid of him (Metaknight) being overpowered just like in Brawl I am pretty sure they will nerf him in any future games where he shows up. Look what happened to Captain Falcon...
 

justaway12

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In certain games (Squeak Squad comes to mind) he has been shown to be a more serious boss than King DDD. No, Metaknight does not work for him, Metaknight really does his own thing only helping those to suit his own agenda most of the time.
*Shrugs* it's your choice, but I wasn't asking if he was more serious, I was asking if he was a more important boss overall


I don't think Falco is second in command, to my knowledge Fox is behind Peppy. Though I have not played Star Fox in a good amount of time. Wolf I do know has a lot of history with Fox and is still popular, as a plus he also happens to be more of an original fighter than Falco (minus the Land Master). Again, it is hard to pin anything down on Star Fox characters outside of Fox to how many different scenarios could play out.
In the ships it's Fox, Falco, Slippy and Krystal, I'm pretty sure and Falco, I would think is second in command on the ships...well I only played one game
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
Oh yes Sheik, I do not see why they would need to cut her since she has been a part of Zelda's entire character. Maybe for space, outside of that I would not see it happening.

King DDD has been reduced to a joke sadly. If you are afraid of him (Metaknight) being overpowered just like in Brawl I am pretty sure they will nerf him in any future games where he shows up. Look what happened to Captain Falcon...
I am NOT afraid of Meta's overpoweredness; I just believed that he's not as important as Dedede.
 

Starphoenix

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I am NOT afraid of Meta's overpoweredness; I just believed that he's not as important as Dedede.
Doesn't matter really, if Sakurai was to make SmashDS we would probably have all 3. In fact, every other fighter would be turned into Waddle Dees and Knuckle Joes. :laugh:
 

Arcadenik

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I never play Star Fox games and I get my information from the Star Fox wiki and Wikipedia, of course. The only reason Falco got added in the first place was because he was the most-voted Star Fox character in the Melee poll and Sakurai needed to add clones to increase the roster number. What made Falco "more important" than Peppy and Slippy back in 2001 when the franchise only had two games? The only important characters in the franchise as far as I can tell are Fox, Wolf, and Andross. Falco, Slippy, Peppy, and Krystal may be important but not in the same level as Fox, Wolf, and Andross. The only difference between them is popularity.
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
I never play Star Fox games and I get my information from the Star Fox wiki and Wikipedia, of course. The only reason Falco got added in the first place was because he was the most-voted Star Fox character in the Melee poll and Sakurai needed to add clones to increase the roster number. What made Falco "more important" than Peppy and Slippy back in 2001 when the franchise only had two games? The only important characters in the franchise as far as I can tell are Fox, Wolf, and Andross. Falco, Slippy, Peppy, and Krystal may be important but not in the same level as Fox, Wolf, and Andross. The only difference between them is popularity.
Andross was not in Assault (unless you count the Andross robot controlled by Oikonny), and was he even in Command?
 

Arcadenik

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I don't know and I really don't care. Andross won't get in anyway. He's just a giant floating head. So it doesn't matter if he was in Command or not.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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....As a character? He's got a generic personality that most of the west doesn't even know about, since they have nothing to go off of. Really now, there's no good explination other than being a red haired fire using version of Marth, because those are the only things that truly stand out for him.
Perceived genericness is irrelevant, only popularity and importance matter. Roy has both.


His exclusion was intended. Possibly not desired, but clearly intended in the very end, since he was cut. The only characters who could even pottentially have been cut despite intentions are Dixie for the technical problems she created, and maybe Mewtwo because of the Pokemon slot limit. Roy is simply a clone, and there's no technical thing holding him back, yet he wasn't important enough to make the later cuts. In addition because of the fact that he got cut in Brawl, his chances of coming on later have been shot in the foot, since the series will almost certainly keep moving forward.
An intended exclusion means the character was never planned to return. This only applies to Pichu, although Doc wasn't very seriously considered.

Roy (and Mewtwo) had victory themes planned along with the rest of the cast (including Ike and Lucario, minus Wolf). If an old character is involved in a new feature, even if said feature didn't come about, that character was obviously intended to be in the game.

Side note, I know you think the roster is determined by slots and clones and whatnot, but it isn't. And there's no precedence that says cut characters can't return because we've never had cut characters before (blame Shigesato Itoi for ruining your chance to find out).


Why shoould I? Roy was a glorified promotion for FE6, and in the end not many people liked him. And as I said, there's nothing special about him in Melee, since for the western audiance out here, few played his game, understood what he said, and he was just a clone. By this type of logic, Young Link should have stayed in instead of Toon Link, since more people played Melee than they did Wind Waker. Also given the Mario spinoffs, more people probably know Waluigi and Daisy than say Bowser Jr, so they should add him instead. The problem with this type of thinking is that disregards the series itself in favor of things from spinoffs and cameos.
Except Smash Bros. MADE Fire Emblem outside of Japan. No other series has benefitted as much as Fire Emblem from being in Smash. Let me emphasize this:

The most important game to the Fire Emblem series is Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Look up anything on the history of either Fire Emblem or Smash Bros. I guarantee you a paragraph (at the top of the page if it's Fire Emblem) that basically says "Marth and Roy's popularity in Melee resulted in the localization of future Fire Emblem games." For good reason too. And here's the kicker: people outside of Japan liked Roy better! Sakurai even said Marth almost got cut in the international release. You may not like the reason why he's popular, you may think he's a pretty shallow character and a sucky unit. Too bad none of those things matter because the fans totally dig him.

Don't assume what works for one series applies to any other. Fire Emblem's case is nothing like Mario or Zelda.


Maybe, but as of yet, it hasn't happened yet. For all I know, FE4 will be brought over and Sigurd will be so popular that he's added, despite being another blue haired swordsman. For all I know, in that proposed Punch Out 2 for Wii, Doc Louise will have a major role so that he can pottentially become playable. Heck, in Golden Sun DS, the first half of the game could just be this new character, and the second half has Felix return through some time travel mumbo jumbo, thus making him the best GS rep instead of Isaac or this new guy. And as I've said before, FE12 could show up with a unique lord that ends all of these debates. Really now, whatever the future has is unknown, and can greatly change what we speculate on now, so for the sake of any type of arguments, it should be disregarded until it actually happens.
I like how being a blue-haired swordsman is an issue to you. Don't worry though, Sigurd won't get in.

Next Level and Camelot haven't suggested a playable Doc or Isaac (and PO2 doesn't technically exist yet). Only a co-op mode for PO2 and the new GS3 hero being a descendant of Isaac and friends. Compare to what the top brass at IS have said:
"We don't want to make more remakes unless SD is a big hit."
"We want to make a game that opens up Fire Emblem to an expanded audience."
"We want to make a game with an all-star cast."

When developers say stuff like this, they usually follow through. If all signs point to X, is it wrong to expect X?

As for FE12, well, maybe. It could come out and people could like a new Lord, but they could also pan it. FE fans don't accept everything thrown at them like some Pokemon fans tend to.

Don't put all your money on Ephraim #2 just because he/she will be new. Newness by itself is meaningless. Only what people think of them counts.
 

SmashChu

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@Toise: That was a very good post. Great Job!

Toise, what are Roy's chances of replacing Marth or Ike for Smash 4 (and I'm fine with Roy replacing Marth, by the way)?
I don't think either will. From Melee to Brawl, a lot more characters were planned. Most characters from Melee were planned to be added back in. In the end, it didn't work out. Out of anyone, Mewtwo and Roy have the biggest chance of coming back. People really liked these characters and most fans expected Dr. Mario and Pichu to be cut. I think the only characters who would be cut are Sonic and Snake.
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
@Toise: That was a very good post. Great Job!



I don't think either will. From Melee to Brawl, a lot more characters were planned. Most characters from Melee were planned to be added back in. In the end, it didn't work out. Out of anyone, Mewtwo and Roy have the biggest chance of coming back. People really liked these characters and most fans expected Dr. Mario and Pichu to be cut. I think the only characters who would be cut are Sonic and Snake.
Maybe we could replace Snake and Sonic with Megaman, Sora, and Ryu Hayabusa.
 

Jerome

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Could these characters be cut or Replaced?

IMO I think these characters could be cut of replaced....

Toon link (Replaced by Tingle)
Pokemon Trainer (Replaced by Gold Pokemon Trainer)
Lucario Replaced by Generation 5 pokemon
Ike (Replaced by Roy or new FE Character)
Lucas (I was thinking Ninten, Ana, Clause, or a Mother 4 character if they make it could replace him.)
Falco (Replaced by Krystal)

Sorry if i spelled anything wrong...
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
IMO I think these characters could be cut of replaced....

Toon link (Replaced by Tingle)
Pokemon Trainer (Replaced by Gold Pokemon Trainer)
Lucario Replaced by Generation 5 pokemon
Ike (Replaced by Roy or new FE Character)
Lucas (I was thinking Ninten, Ana, Clause, or a Mother 4 character if they make it could replace him.)
Falco (Replaced by Krystal)

Sorry if i spelled anything wrong...
I can tolerate Toon Link and Tingle.

We don't need anymore Mother characters unless we cut Lucas and/or Ness.

Though part of me wants Krystal in Smash 4, Falco is one of my mains.

I think we should keep Red without putting in Gold, even though they look so similar.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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@MtJ: Replacing? Zero. As far as I can tell, FE prospects are this:

Marth, Ike
Marth, Ike, Roy
Marth, Ike, New Guy

Although some people think Ike might go, there's pretty much no reason to suggest this other than "Roy left, Ike will too."


holy crap this thread moves fast
 
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