[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[justaway12]

Professor Layton: I know he has an extreamly low chance of even getting a trophy, but I really liked his game. It also managed to score DS game of the year . I see that there are already about 4 games out in japan, and I can't wait for second one to hit the US shores .

If only that interview with Nintendo was real

I would like to see Aimee and Meg from Fire emblem and MOAR Mario chars much more.

@Jerome: I could see Rosalina in there if she keeps getting important roles like Super Mario Galaxy 1 and (maybe) two but she is kind minor now.

 

[kirbywizard]

If only that interview with Nintendo was real

I would like to see Aimee and Meg from Fire emblem and MOAR Mario chars much more.

@Jerome: I could see Rosalina in there if she keeps getting important roles like Super Mario Galaxy 1 and (maybe) two but she is kind minor now.

Meg would never be in a smash bros game because she would be more broken then Metaknight

 

[Arcadenik]

Midna won't get in Smash. Ever. No one will care about her when that new Zelda game comes out and everyone starts gushing over the pointy-headed fairy sword girl. Just like everyone stopped caring about Vaati when Midna showed up. And like everyone stopped caring about Tetra when Vaati showed up.

 

[Wizzerd]

I was thinking there may be a maxium of 6 charcters in the Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon sections. So this is what each section should be so it can please mostly everybody.

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina

Rosalina doesn't have much chance. By SSB4 with all likelihood she'll have two NPC roles (assuming she's in Galaxy 2), and her popularity isn't very good. Paper Mario or Toad would be better to please people.

Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Midna

Toon Zelda can't be anything but a clone, and Midna will be forgotten by SSB4. In fact, the only reasonable option for the Zelda series is Tingle (deal with it), with Vaati being the only one to even come close.

Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer Red (Squirtle, Charizard, Ivysaur)
Lucario
Mewtwo
Generation 5 pokemon
Pokemon Trainer Leaf (Jigglypuff,Pichu,Meowth)

No need to change PT's name. Jigglypuff isn't going to be put into a trainer, undeserving as she is anymore, as she's O12 and cutting her will disappoint a lot of people. Another trainer is unlikely at best, as it would take away from PT's uniqueness. Besides, if there was another trainer s/he would get starter Pokemon.

 

[Big-Cat]

Midna won't get in Smash. Ever. No one will care about her when that new Zelda game comes out and everyone starts gushing over the pointy-headed fairy sword girl. Just like everyone stopped caring about Vaati when Midna showed up. And like everyone stopped caring about Tetra when Vaati showed up.

Have you been drinking the Wizzerd Kool-Aid?

 

[Wizzerd]

Have you been drinking the Wizzerd Kool-Aid?

>___________>
What's wrong with the statement? It's happened to other characters so how is Midna special?

 

[Big-Cat]

>___________>
What's wrong with the statement? It's happened to other characters so how is Midna special?

I'm not saying Midna is an exception. What you need to get is that older characters aren't tossed aside like old software when new characters come about. The new characters are welcomed like a new member of the family.

 

[Wizzerd]

I'm not saying Midna is an exception. What you need to get is that older characters aren't tossed aside like old software when new characters come about. The new characters are welcomed like a new member of the family.

To Nintendo, perhaps. To fans, older characters lose their popularity by quite a bit, like what happened with the Skull Kid (after he stopped getting important roles after MM), KoRL and Agahnim. It doesn't really mean anything anyway, as one-shot characters are unlikely to get in.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Rosalina doesn't have much chance. By SSB4 with all likelihood she'll have two NPC roles (assuming she's in Galaxy 2), and her popularity isn't very good. Paper Mario or Toad would be better to please people.

I agree, except for Paper Mario.
Bowser Jr. would be the better rep.

Toon Zelda can't be anything but a clone, and Midna will be forgotten by SSB4. In fact, the only reasonable option for the Zelda series is Tingle (deal with it), with Vaati being the only one to even come close.

I disagree with Tingle. and you cannot just go "Deal with it." All us Ridley fans should just "Deal with it" that he will never be playable then. Midna is covered below.

No need to change PT's name. Jigglypuff isn't going to be put into a trainer, undeserving as she is anymore, as she's O12 and cutting her will disappoint a lot of people.

Brawl disapointed.
Changing Mario's Down B disappointed.
Ganondrof still being a clone disappointed.
Removing Mewtwo disappointed.
Wolf and falco having a landmaster disappointed.
Your point?

Another trainer is unlikely at best, as it would take away from PT's uniqueness. Besides, if there was another trainer s/he would get starter Pokemon.

It is possible.
And don't use this uniqueness crap. That is a load of bull.

To Nintendo, perhaps. To fans, older characters lose their popularity by quite a bit, like what happened with the Skull Kid (after he stopped getting important roles after MM), KoRL and Agahnim. It doesn't really mean anything anyway, as one-shot characters are unlikely to get in.

Characters do lost their popularity over time. like Tingle....oh wait.
Give her time. No one is giving her another chance. They have made up their mind and tossed her aside. She had more importance the story then most other helpers. She is also popular.

People just want to move on because she had the "Like her/Hate her" divide with no middle ground for her.

As for one shot characters. You are right they won't get in. Right Sheik.

 

[Big-Cat]

To Nintendo, perhaps. To fans, older characters lose their popularity by quite a bit, like what happened with the Skull Kid (after he stopped getting important roles after MM), KoRL and Agahnim. It doesn't really mean anything anyway, as one-shot characters are unlikely to get in.

Characters don't necessarily lose popularity. What tends to happen is that the new one gets a lot of attention at first and then the popularity settles down after a while. A good example of this is the Final Fantasy series.

Just because a character doesn't get a new role doesn't mean anything. It depends on where their place in the story is, and if they are flexible enough to be a recurring character in future games.

It's rather difficult to put the Skull Kid in a new role unless it involves a forest (TP) or something else. Daphnes Hyrule, aka the KoRL, dies at the end of Windwaker so it's not likely to expect the guy to return except as a ghost. Agahnim was not the main villain in a Link to the Past nor was he all that developed to begin with.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

To the idea of a second PT with Jiggs, Pichu, and Gardevoir: NO! NO! NO! It will unbalance the roster!

And I've noticed that it gets suggested often from time to time. Why does that happen from time to time?

 

[Big-Cat]

To the idea of a second PT with Jiggs, Pichu, and Gardevoir: NO! NO! NO! It will unbalance the roster!

And I've noticed that it gets suggested often from time to time. Why does that happen from time to time?

Um.... Unbalance the roster? Pokemon already has more playable characters than Mario in Brawl so I don't see the big deal. Anyway, the idea gets mentioned because it's a way that everyone wins.

You have Pikchu, the original Pokemon Trainer (with male alts), the Girl Pokemon Trainer (with female alts) with Pichu, Jiggs, and Gardevoir, Mewtwo, Lucario (maybe), and a new Pokemon (presumably). For the most part, this allows all the current gens and the latest future gen to all have a place on the roster. Ideally, this would have six slots, and Mario can easily be equal with this by having Toad and Bowser Jr. on the roster.

 

[Arcadenik]

Drag0nscythe, why did you have to bring up Ridley again? No one were talking about Ridley. So what if he's not playable.

KumaOso... Zelda, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem are pretty much the only franchises with "flavor of the month" characters. That's why I think Midna won't get in Smash 4. She won't be Zelda's "flavor of the month" after the new game comes out and the sword fairy girl becomes the new "flavor of the month".

MarioTheJumpman, I don't think there will be two Pokemon Trainers in SSB4. Either Red and the 1st gen Pokemon stay or they get replaced with Gold and the 2nd gen Pokemon.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well theres just enough people who support it, who dont chck this regularly, so they come on post leave, andthen 5 pages later, the same type of person comes alogn an ddoes is again

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Drag0nscythe, why did you have to bring up Ridley again? No one were talking about Ridley. So what if he's not playable.

KumaOso... Zelda, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem are pretty much the only franchises with "flavor of the month" characters. That's why I think Midna won't get in Smash 4. She won't be Zelda's "flavor of the month" after the new game comes out and the sword fairy girl becomes the new "flavor of the month".

MarioTheJumpman, I don't think there will be two Pokemon Trainers in SSB4. Either Red and the 1st gen Pokemon stay or they get replaced with Gold and the 2nd gen Pokemon.

Even tough Red and Gold look rather similar (some people can probably confuse the two), Red would be the better choice as the PT.

And I still believe that only one PT should be playable.

 

[Big-Cat]

KumaOso... Zelda, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem are pretty much the only franchises with "flavor of the month" characters. That's why I think Midna won't get in Smash 4. She won't be Zelda's "flavor of the month" after the new game comes out and the sword fairy girl becomes the new "flavor of the month".

Just because something is "flavor of the month", doesn't mean they won't be popular after they're no longer in the spotlight. Look at Mewtwo. The guy was flavor of the month years ago, yet the guy is still popular enough to give Brawl massive backlash for his exclusion. Will Lucario be like this? Who knows?

 

[Arcadenik]

KumaOso, the reason why there's a backlash over removing Mewtwo (and other Melee characters) is because they are simply opposed to the notion of "removing / replacing characters" and that they took Mewtwo for granted because they were 100% positive that Mewtwo would never be removed in Brawl and now they are severely butthurt that they were proven wrong.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Yeah, the chances of Mewtwo returning (would be awesome, though) is less likely than Falco getting cut and FE getting TWO new playable reps for Smash 4 with one of them being Lyn.

 

[Jerome]

I just hate the fact that Mewtwo wasn't a really good fighter in melee. So, when brawl was coming out I knew for sure thet were gonna buff him. But, instead they replace him with Lucario. I do not want Mewtwo to be known as one of the worst fighters in the smash brothers series then never to be seen again. He needs to make an epic comeback in SSB4 as one of the best fighters.

 

[Arcadenik]

Mewtwo was one of my mains in Melee. I was surprised he wasn't playable in Brawl but I found new favorites in Red's three Pokemon. Ivysaur is awesome, followed by Charizard then Squirtle. But I won't hold my breath for the return of the 1st gen Pokemon in SSB4. That way, I won't be BAWWWing like most people would do if Red and his 1st gen Pokemon were replaced with Gold and his 2nd gen Pokemon.

 

[Pieman0920]

Again, Mewtwo wasn't replaced with Lucario, he was replaced by Pokemon Trainer. Really now, Lucario systematically took out Pichu rather than just Mewtwo, but people just always have to associate the two together because their neutral B attacks are kinda simmilar....And wanting him to be stronger than everyone else is kind of dumb too, since what you should hope for is that the roster is balanced.

 

[Big-Cat]

Again, Mewtwo wasn't replaced with Lucario, he was replaced by Pokemon Trainer. Really now, Lucario systematically took out Pichu rather than just Mewtwo, but people just always have to associate the two together because their neutral B attacks are kinda simmilar....And wanting him to be stronger than everyone else is kind of dumb too, since what you should hope for is that the roster is balanced.

Mewtwo wasn't replaced period, and neither was Roy. Why else were they the two furthest in development out of the Seven Deadly Fighters? The only who could be considered replaced was Young Link, but that's debatable.

 

[Arcadenik]

Both Pokemon Trainer and Lucario replaced Mewtwo, Pichu, and Jigglypuff. But when it came to adding cut characters to increase the roster number, Jigglypuff got in over Mewtwo. So ultimately, Mewtwo was replaced by Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, and Jigglypuff.

 

[codfish92]

Both Pokemon Trainer and Lucario replaced Mewtwo, Pichu, and Jigglypuff. But when it came to adding cut characters to increase the roster number, Jigglypuff got in over Mewtwo. So ultimately, Mewtwo was replaced by Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, and Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff has been in all 3 SSB's...
she didn't replace/beat the cut from anybody

 

[Pieman0920]

While I agree that Jigs probably was planned to be cut for a bit there, I don't see why Lucario would have really been the problem. He was neccesary for the representation of the newest Pokemon generation, and the only other Pokemon his inclusion influenced would probably be those who also could have represented the 4th gen. Pokemon Trainer was a new idea that used the first generation, and thus caused a shake up in the line up. The fourth spot, aka the spot Jigg's got was probably up in the air for quite a bit, and that probably explains why Mewtwo had so much data. Thus, I'm banking on the fact that Lucario had as much of a hand in cutting Mewtwo as Pikachu did, which was little if any, and that PT was the one that caused him to be cut and Jiggs was the past fighter that got chosen instead.

 

[Arcadenik]

If Sakurai removed Roy, Mewtwo, and Jigglypuff in the first place, it tells me that these three were not needed in Brawl in the first place. For starters, Roy was outdated and Ike was brand-new. Pokemon Trainer brought in three new 1st gen Pokemon so the other 1st gen Pokemon (Mewtwo and Jigglypuff) were not needed. When it came down to increasing the roster number without coming up with new movesets (because it takes a lot of time), Sakurai added the cut characters since they already had the data in Melee (a quick way to add them), he planned on adding Roy, Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, and more clones. They would have gotten in if it wasn't for Sonic. Sonic required time to come up with a new moveset so Sakurai had to put in Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf (since they were completed before Mewtwo and Roy) and focus on Sonic. Oy vey! Only if Sakurai had done Mewtwo first before Jigglypuff... maybe Mewtwo would have been in Brawl instead. Boo hoo!

 

[camden]

Pokemon Trainer was put in to represent the 3rd generation (FireRed/LeafGreen) which had been skipped over. Mewtwo was a popular choice for Melee because of his movie appearance, which is more then likely why Lucario also got into Brawl. Pichu was put in to represent the 2nd gen, therefore, he wasn't needed for Brawl. More than likely, Lucario won't be in a future Smash game, he'll only be replaced by whatever movie star Pokemon becomes popular at the time.

 

[codfish92]

FireRed and LeafGreen are NOT the third generation! don't you ever make that mistake again. how dare you disgrace the greatness that is the First gen with the less honor that the third gen has. you are a Blasphemer!!!!!!!!!!!

and i'm not overreacting.

 

[Arcadenik]

Cod... the 1st gen was outdated. FireRed/LeafGreen revived the 1st gen and made them new again. Those two games came out during the 3rd gen. That's why Pokemon Trainer represented both 1st gen and 3rd gen in Brawl.

In that same respect, since HeartGold/SoulSilver will come out after Plantinum (the 3rd game of the 4th gen games) and would likely come out before the 5th gen games, the new Pokemon Trainer (Gold and his 2nd gen Pokemon) could very well represent the end of the 4th gen, the beginning of the 5th gen, and the original 2nd gen in SSB4.

 

[codfish92]

no, LeafGreen and FireRed were not representations of the third gen. yes they came out in between Ruby/Sapphire and emerald, but it was still first gen. yes they had third gen pokemon, but so does platinum. you can't say platinum is a representation of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen, because it isn't. when version 2.0 of a program comes out, it's not version 2.0 and 1.0.

FireRed and Leafgreen were 1st gen representatives, which came out in between the 3rd gen.

but lets get away from pokemon talk and more to SSB4 speculation.

BOARD THE PLATFORMS

 

[camden]

FireRed and LeafGreen were representative of both the third and first generations.

Saying that about Platinum is irrelavent. Every generation releases three games. HeartGold and SoulSilver are going to be representative of not only second generation, and whatever generation, and the fourth generation. That'd be like saying if a baby boomer had a kid, that kid would be representative of just the baby boomers, which is wrong!

 

[codfish92]

Pokémon Fire Red & Leaf Green. These recently released games are upgrades of Pokémon Red & Green(Blue)

to improve or enhance the quality or value of: to upgrade property by landscaping it.

upgrades don't represent new generations. they're just improved versions of the original (1st gen) and aren't hybrids of the old and new(1st and 3rd). the landscaped property isn't a representation of a new property, it's an improvement of the old one

 

[Arcadenik]

There's a difference between gen games and gen Pokemon, you know... since certain Pokemon from past gen games show up in new gen games.

1st gen games: Red/Blue/Yellow
2nd gen games: Gold/Silver/Crystal
3rd gen games: Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and FireRed/LeafGreen
4th gen games: Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and HeartGold/SoulSilver

1st gen Pokemon: #1 to #151
2nd gen Pokemon: #152 to #251
3rd gen Pokemon: #252 to #386
4th gen Pokemon: #387 to #493

In SSB, Pikachu and Jigglypuff represented the 1st gen games.

In SSBM, Pikachu and Jigglypuff represented both 1st and 2nd gen games while Mewtwo represented 1st gen games only and Pichu represented 2nd gen games only.

In SSBB, Pikachu and Jigglypuff represented both 3rd gen and 4th gen games while Pokemon Trainer represented 3rd gen games only and Lucario represented 4th gen games only.

Those Pokemon were not representing the generations. They were representing the games. That's why the notion of "each generation needs a rep" is nonsense.

 

[camden]

When you upgrade something using a cetain time period's technologies, it represents the time it was created, and when it was upgraded. Because Red and Green were upgraded using GBA technology and 3rd generation stats and data, it's representing the first gen, where it originated, and the third gen, where it got its upgrades.

 

[Arcadenik]

Exactly. That's why Red has his updated FR/LG look, not his original R/B/Y look.

If Gold replaces Red as the Pokemon Trainer in SSB4, I expect Gold to have his updated HG/SS look, not his original G/S/C look.

 

[alexjol]

1504 pages? WTF MAN? I vote for characters that aren't ment to be in the game to make publicity of games that have been released or will be released after SSB4 (like Roy or Lucas). Both of them can come back, but don't put any more in the game.

 

[n88]

This is a little late, but I think it was Sonic who replaced Mewtwo. This may seem strange to some, but there's evidence that Mewtwo (along with Roy) was actually in Brawl at one point. Among the scraps of data for Mewtwo, he even has a Classic pre-fight screen. That seems to be a pretty good indicator that he was actually in.

(Speculation from here on out)

Then, last-minute, Sonic and Wolf got added to the roster. (There is also evidence that Wolf was the last character to be added into the game). During the time used to add those two, I suspect that Sakurai would have opened up the clone factory, producing the rest of the forbidden seven (Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik, Dixie). But since there was no time to make these clones, Pokemon had more CSS slots than Mario, and a cut needed to be made for political reasons. Mewtwo got the axe.

This isn't a perfect theory, but I think it's fairly probable.

Anywho, what do people think of a Tetra/Toon Zelda's possibility in SSB4? (Braces for Wizzerd attack)

I think it's possible (seeing as Toon Zelda was a cut character in Brawl, Sakurai clearly has his eye on her), but I doubt she'd get in before Tingle.

 

[Wizzerd]

Anywho, what do people think of a Tetra/Toon Zelda's possibility in SSB4? (Braces for Wizzerd attack)

No need to worry.

Anyway, I understand that Sakurai sort of had his eye on her, considering her as a character, but I think she was intended, as you said, as a last-minute clone. She doesn't really have the potential to be anything else. However, he probably realized that Toon Zelda would have to be Luigified, due to having much shorter legs and being unable to use all of Zelda's many kicks, so he decided that it wasn't worth the effort and cut her. I don't think that she'll be able to compete with Tingle in SSB4, because Sakurai will be thinking about giving another character to the Zelda series early on and will prefer a character with the potential to be original, plus Tingle outclasses Toon Zelda in popularity/significance anyway. However, it's a definite possibility.

Oh, and the one thing about your theory: it looks valid except for the Dixie thing. Sakurai said in an interview that Dixie was going to be in a tag-team with Diddy, but they cancelled it because they couldn't get it to work properly. The awkward animation and preexisting-item-summoning on Diddy's Down B seems to support this, because the Down B was probably originally intended as a switch between Diddy/Dixie.

 

[Pieman0920]

As far as I'm concerned, FR/LG content represented the first gen, since they were remakes of the first gen games, rather than new ones like R/S/E. Yes they had content from the third generation, but they also had some from the second, so why not say they represented that too?

Then, last-minute, Sonic and Wolf got added to the roster. (There is also evidence that Wolf was the last character to be added into the game). During the time used to add those two, I suspect that Sakurai would have opened up the clone factory, producing the rest of the forbidden seven (Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik, Dixie).

Odds are that Dixie Kong wasn't a clone, but rather was part of a idea to combine both the Ice Climber and Zelda/Sheik mechanics, there by acting in a fashion that would mimick the tag team action of the DKC series.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I think Dixie would be a luigified Diddy in battle. Her moves would be a little different, but they would funtion simalalry and a few would be different animations (Dash attack specifically).