[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[gantrain05]

ok, first of all, there is no way that any of those metroid hunters crappy characters deserve a spot over ridley, are u freakin serious? ever since METROID for the NES Ridley has been an active character in the series and its just ******** he wasn't a playable character even in melee, let alone brawl.

 

[WolfCypher]

Item ideas that have not been mentioned:

Microphone (Kirby)
Generates a moderately large soundwave with incredible knockback

Assist Trophies

Rosalina
Lets loose many starbits, which each restore 5%.

Eggplany Wizard
All nearby enemies turn into walking eggplants for a limited amount of time when he casts his magic.

Midna
Unleashes shards of Twilight foward.

Classic Donkey Kong
A 2D DK starts hurling 2D barrels left and right.

Pak E. Derm
Acts as a wall.

ok, first of all, there is no way that any of those metroid hunters crappy characters deserve a spot over ridley, are u freakin serious? ever since METROID for the NES Ridley has been an active character in the series and its just ******** he wasn't a playable character even in melee, let alone brawl.

It's not about Ridley being inferior or superior to the likes of Sylux, but rather that Sakurai seems pretty stern not to put in Ridley, ever. So what other Metroid characters are there in a series with absolutely no useable characters that could work in SSB4?

 

[viparagon]

I have an idea for the Team Rocket character (mentioned earlier)

Also:
In the next SSB, I think there should and possibly will be two new Metroid reps. And please, no Ridley. He was already a boss and we want to see some new faces. The rep(s) should be from Metroid Hunters. There are 5 other hunters: Kanden, Spire, Trace, Noxus, Sylux, and Weavel. My three favorites are Spire, Trace, and Noxus. They're all very unique and definatlely deserve spots before Ridley because he appeared in Brawl as two bosses.

My point exactly.

Edit: As important to the franchise as ridley is, he just can't be a character for the same reason as toad is. He's way too big.

 

[viparagon]

That's good, but those Pokemon aren't well known enough. Rival trainer with three other starters from different gens would be better.

Yeah they are! I know them from the Pokemon TV show! They're teamrockets main pok'emon! They were also some of the pokemon you most fought in red +blue version on the gameboy. However, Arbok woudn't work for the same reasons ridley wouldn't. I find it funny that You say Ridley wouldn't work, but nominate arbok! Weezing also would look a little funky, How 'bout Ekans and Koffing?

 

[WolfCypher]

OK, what possible differences would Koffing have over Weezing and Ekans over Arbok?

Anyway, its a horrible idea. Horrible.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Yeah they are! I know them from the Pokemon TV show! They're teamrockets main pok'emon! They were also some of the pokemon you most fought in red +blue version on the gameboy. However, Arbok woudn't work for the same reasons ridley wouldn't. I find it funny that You say Ridley wouldn't work, but nominate arbok! Weezing also would look a little funky, How 'bout Ekans and Koffing?

You, my good sir, have size issues. Arbok is about the size of a human. And, not many people watch the Pokemon anime.

Also, Ridley has already been resized for Super Smash Brothers. Don't believe me? Watch the opening cinematic in melee then try to say 'but hes to big!11'.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Alright, put in another Pokemon villain..........................

In anime overall. Wasting their lives on trying to get a Pikachu, while some other Pokemon is yet much better?

Team Magma and Team Aqua had much better appearances though (quitted watching the anime LONG time ago, it bored me).

 

[viparagon]

You, my good sir, have size issues. Arbok is about the size of a human. And, not many people watch the Pokemon anime.

Also, Ridley has already been resized for Super Smash Brothers. Don't believe me? Watch the opening cinematic in melee then try to say 'but hes to big!11'.

Yeah, i remember watching the opening sequence and thinking that ridley could be an unlockable character >_> oh well...

Anyway, I suppose I should reiterate my statement. Its not so much his size, but his shape. Look at my big post on page 136 or 137. His tail is about as long as the rest of his body, And he can't keep it around himself constantly without looking extremely stupid. Realistically, his tail would be dragging half way accross the stage, creating many more issues. What happens when you attack his tail? Does it do damage? Does it "knick" him? Does it do knockback? Besides, you can only scale don a character so much, especially one like ridley. He just keeps on getting bigger in comparison to samus. In Prime, the difference is so great that it even dwarfs mario's comparison to Bowser and kirby's to dedede.

He's also very tall, even in the few seconds where you see him attack samus in the opening sequence, He appears quite Tall, taller even than ganondorf. They've also included him as a boss since melee, and as a boss he appears at about his acual size. They'r not going to have him huge in one game, only to have him reapear as an tiny playable character in the next game. Sakurai stated himself in an interview with NP that it was impossible to turn ridley into a character, And he obviously knows much more about the game mechanics than you or me.

About Arbok, I was reffering to the character's Lenghth once again. Possible Ekans would make more sense? And Many People watched the anime! It was a world-wide phenomenon! Even without it, Teamrockets pokemon were among the most fought during red+green, Red+blue, and firered+leafgreen! May I also remind you that pikachu, jiggs, and I believe Lucario (i havn't seen it in years of course) became popular solely because of the anime, having no relevance to the plot(just another pokemn to catch)?

 

[viparagon]

Does everyone like Masked Man Claus because he has a lightsabre so they can act out Darth Vader-esque Star Wars fantasies? If Claus gets in, then the Beam Sword item in Brawl would be a redundant object. Although maybe it'd work because Ness has his own bat while there is still a Home Run bat.

That makes me wonder if people like Claus so much because they saw Darth Vader as a playable character in the next Soul Calibur for PS3.

Yeah, diddy has nanas, even though they appear as an item in the game, and they fulfill exactly the same purpose. He could have his beam sword permanently, or pull them out at will. It would act just like a normal beamsword,(he could chuck it at will) accept he would use it for his aerials as well. Good idea?

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Yeah, i remember watching the opening sequence and thinking that ridley could be an unlockable character >_> oh well...

Anyway, I suppose I should reiterate my statement. Its not so much his size, but his shape. Look at my big post on page 136 or 137. His tail is about as long as the rest of his body, And he can't keep it around himself constantly without looking extremely stupid. Realistically, his tail would be dragging half way accross the stage, creating many more issues. What happens when you attack his tail? Does it do damage? Does it "knick" him? Does it do knockback? Besides, you can only scale don a character so much, especially one like ridley. He just keeps on getting bigger in comparison to samus. In Prime, the difference is so great that it even dwarfs mario's comparison to Bowser and kirby's to dedede.

He's also very tall, even in the few seconds where you see him attack samus in the opening sequence, He appears quite Tall, taller even than ganondorf. They've also included him as a boss since melee, and as a boss he appears at about his acual size. They'r not going to have him huge in one game, only to have him reapear as an tiny playable character in the next game. Sakurai stated himself in an interview with NP that it was impossible to turn ridley into a character, And he obviously knows much more about the game mechanics than you or me.

About Arbok, I was reffering to the character's Lenghth once again. Possible Ekans would make more sense? And Many People watched the anime! It was a world-wide phenomenon! Even without it, Teamrockets pokemon were among the most fought during red+green, Red+blue, and firered+leafgreen! May I also remind you that pikachu, jiggs, and I believe Lucario (i havn't seen it in years of course) became popular solely because of the anime, having no relevance to the plot(just another pokemn to catch)?

we already know it is possible to animate something draging behind a character (olimar's pikmin) so i don't see why ridley's tail will be much of a problem. And why not just shrink the guy a bit so he's only a tad taller then bowser?

 

[SkylerOcon]

Bowser had some pretty decent resizing work done on him too.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I have an idea for the Team Rocket character (mentioned earlier). He would obviously work just like Pokemon Trainer, except with three different pokemon. I think Meowth, Arbok, and Weezing. Also, I'm unsure on a name. It could be something like Team Rocket, Rocket Grunt, or Rocket Trainer.

I'm liking this already ( well...kinda)

but how about instead of Team Rocket, have the greatest Boss of all time appear when I mention Boss I mean Team Rocket's Boss Giovanni!

he could probably have Persian, Nidoking and possibly Mewtwo if he doesn't make it as is own character

Also:
In the next SSB, I think there should and possibly will be two new Metroid reps. And please, no Ridley. He was already a boss and we want to see some new faces. The rep(s) should be from Metroid Hunters. There are 5 other hunters: Kanden, Spire, Trace, Noxus, Sylux, and Weavel. My three favorites are Spire, Trace, and Noxus. They're all very unique and definatlely deserve spots before Ridley because he appeared in Brawl as two bosses.

btw.. I strongly disagree with the fact that you said you that Ridley is shouldn't be in the next smash.

So what if he was a Boss in Brawl, that didn't keep charizard from being playable in Brawl, which btw was a pokeball in Melee, I don't know why you think Ridley doesn't deserve a spot because IMO, out of any villain from the Metroid series it's Ridley who deserves it the most, also Sylux wouldn't be so bad just as long as Ridley made it though

 

[Deleted member]

Bowser had some pretty decent resizing work done on him too.

But Bowser was smaller when he appeared in Melee

I agree characters can be resized though

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

I'm liking this already ( well...kinda)

but how about instead of Team Rocket, have the greatest Boss of all time appear when I mention Boss I mean Team Rocket's Boss Giovanni!

he could probably have Persian, Nidoking and possibly Mewtwo if he doesn't make it as is own character




I would rather have gary or lance as the rival trainer. How awesome would it be to play as dragonite or other dragon pokemon?

 

[MarthTrinity]

Ridley>>>The Hunters.

Hunters was EASILY the worst game in the Prime series and one of the worst in general (I've heard Metroid 2 isn't that great but I haven't played it myself). Unless of course you count Prime Pinball...XD

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I've already come across this topic: Ridley, Metroid characters, etc.

Dark Samus and Ridley: that's it.

And don't argue with me, you'll only tick me off. Also, Dark Samus would not be a clone.

As for Pokemon, I'm unhappy with the current roster regarding pokemon. Why the heck did we suddenly get Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle? Old pokemon? I think popular pokemon is a good choice. I think Pokemon Trainer is one of the worst additions.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

just wondering, how would dark samus not be a clone?

 

[flyinfilipino]

As for Pokemon, I'm unhappy with the current roster regarding pokemon. Why the heck did we suddenly get Charizard, Ivysaur and Squirtle? Old pokemon? I think popular pokemon is a good choice. I think Pokemon Trainer is one of the worst additions.

Charizard, Squirtle, and (kinda) Ivysaur are popular Pokemon, as in, lots of people know what they are.

 

[WolfCypher]

The orignal starter 3 (in their various evolutionary forms)? I thought Pokémon Trainer was a wonderful addition. People were either clamoring for starter Pokémon to be playable reps, or for "Ash Ketchum" and the like to be upt in the game, so killing two birds with one stone with PT was great. Besides Snake's inclusion in the game, I'll never forget my reaction when I saw PT was a confirmed character.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Dark Samus and Ridley: that's it.

And don't argue with me, you'll only tick me off. Also, Dark Samus would not be a clone.

just wondering, how would dark samus not be a clone?

I'm curious myself and I am wondering the same thing, and unless you show some reasoning, tell me why wouldn't Dark Samus be a clone?

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

I'm curious myself and I am wondering the same thing, and unless you show some reasoning, tell me why wouldn't Dark Samus be a clone?

Isn't DS just a clone of samus? (in metroid prime)

 

[flyinfilipino]

No, Dark Samus isn't a "clone," nor would it necessarily have to have a "clone" moveset. Falco is considered a Fox "clone", but story-wise that's not who he is.

 

[SirKibble]

We have to remember who we're dealing with here. Dark Samus, if included, would almost definitely end up as a clone. [New word] + Old Character = Clone of Old Character. (See "Toon Link")

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

We have to remember who we're dealing with here. Dark Samus, if included, would almost definitely end up as a clone. [New word] + Old Character = Clone of Old Character. (See "Toon Link")

same goes for Dr. + mario = dr. mario was a clone of mario. Yay for patterns. But yeah DS will be a clone.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Well of course that could be the case when dealing with Sakurai. But then again, who really knows?

@Falcon: No, that would not be a pattern.

 

[ducky285]

Dark Samus only mirrors Samus in appearance. Her firearm is different, she has a different style of mobility, a slew of Phazon based attacks and lacks a lot of Samus's weaponry (missiles, bombs, screw attack etc.). If the devs really tired, they could make D. Samus into an original character with a unique moveset.

If I didn't feel like sitting here and typing out a wall of text, I'd come up with a full moveset, but I can think of some B moves for her.

B - Phazon Shot - Doesn't charge, can be fired fairly quickly. Solid projectile.
Side B - Phazon Tackle - Does a powered-up shoulder tackle forward. Decent Ko move with a bit of startup.
UpB - Phazon Hover - Creates a field of Phazon around DS, allowing her to fly freely. Does damage on startup and can aerial out of the attack. Has to recharge much like ROB's Upb.
DownB - Phazon Burst - Hold B to charge and release to attack with a burst of phazon energy that radiates outward from DS's body. Very strong at full charge.

Smashes could be short range/large hitbox style phazon blasts from her arm cannon.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Even better, they could make her float (a la Peach), since that's how she mainly moves around.

 

[Big-Cat]

Dark Samus only mirrors Samus in appearance. Her firearm is different, she has a different style of mobility, a slew of Phazon based attacks and lacks a lot of Samus's weaponry (missiles, bombs, screw attack etc.). If the devs really tired, they could make D. Samus into an original character with a unique moveset.

If I didn't feel like sitting here and typing out a wall of text, I'd come up with a full moveset, but I can think of some B moves for her.

B - Phazon Shot - Doesn't charge, can be fired fairly quickly. Solid projectile.
Side B - Phazon Tackle - Does a powered-up shoulder tackle forward. Decent Ko move with a bit of startup.
UpB - Phazon Hover - Creates a field of Phazon around DS, allowing her to fly freely. Does damage on startup and can aerial out of the attack. Has to recharge much like ROB's Upb.
DownB - Phazon Burst - Hold B to charge and release to attack with a burst of phazon energy that radiates outward from DS's body. Very strong at full charge.

Smashes could be short range/large hitbox style phazon blasts from her arm cannon.

I think a good move somewhere would be where she makes up those clones of her. I think that could work as a Final Smash.

By the way, Sakurai must let the original developers work on the trophies next time.

For example:

Dark Samus' origins are said to be unknown.
Wolf knew James McCloud (Never said or implied in the games)

These inaccuracies shouldn't be present in a Nintendo game.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Dark Samus only mirrors Samus in appearance. Her firearm is different, she has a different style of mobility, a slew of Phazon based attacks and lacks a lot of Samus's weaponry (missiles, bombs, screw attack etc.). If the devs really tired, they could make D. Samus into an original character with a unique moveset.

If I didn't feel like sitting here and typing out a wall of text, I'd come up with a full moveset, but I can think of some B moves for her.

B - Phazon Shot - Doesn't charge, can be fired fairly quickly. Solid projectile.
Side B - Phazon Tackle - Does a powered-up shoulder tackle forward. Decent Ko move with a bit of startup.
UpB - Phazon Hover - Creates a field of Phazon around DS, allowing her to fly freely. Does damage on startup and can aerial out of the attack. Has to recharge much like ROB's Upb.
DownB - Phazon Burst - Hold B to charge and release to attack with a burst of phazon energy that radiates outward from DS's body. Very strong at full charge.

Smashes could be short range/large hitbox style phazon blasts from her arm cannon.

yes but they could have made ganondorf or young/toon link their own moveset in both melee and brawl but they did not. If they are lazy enough to not make a moveset for such standout characters as g-dorf and t/y link, or falco, or wolf, what makes DS any different?

 

[ducky285]

Just FYI in case people aren't aware or if they forgot, Dark Samus is Metroid Prime taking the form of Samus's Phazon Suit, which Samus acquired through overexposure to Phazon on Tallon IV. She is not a clone of Samus, she's more like a shapeshifted form of Metroid Prime.

Also, I qualified my comments about DS's potential with the disclaimer "if the devs really wanted to". If they don't want to put forth the effort, then you most likely won't see it happen. We can always hope that they will, though.

 

[Loek]

It would be nice to make the game more based on technique and mindgames to boost the competitive play. And they should update the online system to make it serious enough for real smashers.

 

[Raging-Banebou]

Yeah, they should update the online system, since I heard players had made a gripe about the lag.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Yeah, they should update the online system, since I heard players had made a gripe about the lag.

Had?

Spoiler

/10angrysmashers

 

[Affinity]

Yeah, they should update the online system, since I heard players had made a gripe about the lag.

People are still griping.

 

[Grunt]

OK, what possible differences would Koffing have over Weezing?

Koffing sounds Manly, while Wheezing sounds like he is dying from an AIDS infected tumor in his lobotomized brain.

 

[globiumz]

All right, it's time to show you my movesets! First off,

Spoiler

Black Shadow.

<--- c wat i did ther?

Black Shadow doesn't really have any "moves" from the F-Zero series, just like CF. CF was made into a powerhouse, his style revolving around a few strong moves such as the falcon punch, knee of justice, feet of judgement, and elbow of banishment as well as combos and high movement speed. I'm thinking that BS (lawlz) would be similar, only a bit more extreme.

Cons are

- Slow roll

- No projectile

- Hard to combo with

- Some laggy attacks

- Mediocre jumps, mediocre recovery

- Average dash speed, similar to Ness'

Pros are

- Amazing KO moves

- Highly damaging attacks

- Some attacks have decent range

- Moderately heavy, similar to Yoshi

Down B - Impact of destruction

BS puts his hands together and slams them into the ground, sending a black shockwave about 2 times his height forward. The initial impact deals 26% and great knockback. Has some startup lag and end lag. Shockwave deals 13% and average knockback. Goes a bit longer than Falco's reflector throw and the shockwave deals darkness damage. If you ge hit by the impact, you won't ge hit by the shockwave due to knocback.

Neutral B - Palm of deception

BS puts his hands together infront of him (some startup lag), his palms facing away from him. A black beam is fired from his palms, similar to Lucario's force palm attack. This atack does not work as a grab however and has average knockback. It's a multihit move and deals 15% if all 4 regular hits connect, first 3 deals 4%, last deals 3%. Last roughly 1 second, and you can shift the beam slowly upwards by holding the stick backwards. If you hold the stick upwards while BS is puting his palms infront of him, BS will fire upwards instead. You may also hold it backwards to turn around completely. Has a small sweespot at the end, dealing 9% and great knockback. Deals darkness damage, and the beam has a traping effect. Has some end lag.

Up B - Piledriver of decadence

BS jumps a short distance forward. He grabs onto any opponent in his way, turns them upside down (BS is standing normally), then rockets with them downwards while holding them still. If this is done over a ledge, it leads to Shadowcide. Done over a surface, the opponent gets slammed into the surface and receives average knockback, as well as 15%. This is his recovery move, but it's mediocre considering it's useless for recovering vertically.

Side B - Shoulder rush of corruption

BS stomps his feet on the ground like an ox, then starts rushing ahead. In the first 2 seconds, it deals 24% and good knockback. Speed is barely higher than his running speed, same as Falco. At this stage BS' shoulder and arm is coated in darkness. After those 2 seconds, the darkness increase in intensity and quantity. Power increases to 30%, in addition to great knockback and priority. Speed is now same as Pit.

At the first 2 stages, BS' can still be stopped in the front by high priority moves, or attacks to the head (needs hiigh priority attack in stage 2) or attacking his back (both stages). Once he reaches stage 3, he becomes completely engulfed in darkness. His dash speed is now identical to MK, as well as dealing 37% and incredible knockback. He's basically invincible in stage 3. However, he needs 3 seconds of rushing to reach this. BS doesn't stop imemdiately after rushing, it takes a second or so, meaning if you don't stop in time you may end up flying off the stage.You will stop rushing immediately in stage 1, and quickly in stage 2, but there is some cooldown on both.

Fsmash

Delivers a furious punch forward. Deals darkness damage and 23% uncharged, 29% fully. Kinda laggy but has great KO power.

Dsmash

Slams his elbows out at both sides. Deals darkness damage and 17% uncharged, 25% fully. Somewhat laggy, and sends opponents into upwards then downwards arc.

Usmash

Does a small jump while stretching out his arms and delivering a furious punch upwards. Deals darkness damage and 20% uncharged, 26% fully. Kinda laggy but has good KO power.

Down taunt: Smiles and says: Hehehe.... Not even close.

Side taunt: Folds his arms and laughs an insane and evil laughter.

Up taunt: Stomps and says: I do not die....

Would be nice with some feedback. Dunno about his FS.

 

[Black Magician]

Rival Pokemon Trainer for Smash 4!
More characterful than a mere Team Rocket Grunt (and infinitely more likely than a mere anime character), s/he could be represented by Blue, Green or Silver (or just the rival from the then most recent Pokemon game) with a different Generation of starters (again, probably those from the most recent game at the time of release).

 

[Big-Cat]

Koffing sounds Manly, while Wheezing sounds like he is dying from an AIDS infected tumor in his lobotomized brain.

Not to mention that Koffing is just happy to be alive while Weezing is emo.

 

[globiumz]

Now onto Ganondorf's moveset. Him still not being declonified was one of the bigger rooster disapointments in Brawl imo. He's a dark magician, and he has used swords before, so his moveset should mirror this, not some lame *** CF clone moveset.

Pros are

- Good at KOing

- Heavy, thus hard to KO

- Good at ranged fighting

- Has some high damage moves

Cons are

- Bad recovery

- Large target

- Slow dash speed

- Some slow attacks

- Hard to combo with

Down B - Magical blast

Ganondorf hoovers into the air and starts charging up 3 big, black orbs of energy above him. After charging up (1 second longer than charge beam) Ganondorf relases it automatically. It has decent range and follows opponent automatically. Deals 21% if all hit, darkness damage, and good knockback.

Neutral B - Magic bolt

Ganondorf uses his hand to generate a dark red magical orb. He then slings it straight forward at high speed. Stuns opponents for a moment like Falco's laser, but has somewhat shorter range. Deals 6% and darkness damage. Not completely spammable due to the move having a bit of lag.

Side B - Triforce glow

Ganondorf kneels, puts up his wrist which begins glowing a golden light. The ground ahead of him begins glowing and a triforce blast comes up from the ground in one short burst, similar to Zelda's attack in TP. Deals 16%, little knocback and light damage. After that, Ganondorf gets back up. This attacks has a bit shorter range than Fox' laser, and will automatically appear under close opponents.

Up B - Painting

Ganondorf creates a painting underneath him, similar to the one used by Phantom Ganon. He enterst he painting thru a dark portal, and another painting appears above. He then jumps out of that one. After this, he enters helpless mode. It gives him some vertical distance, but not much vertical distance.

Dsmash

A swift, horizontal slash in front of him dealing 14% uncharged, then he turns around and slams his sword vertically into the ground. The first strike deals ok knockback and only 19% when fully charged, but the second deals 17% uncharged and 23% fully charged. Second hit has good knockback.

Fsmash

Ganondorf brings his sowrd at high speed upwards from the ground. Deals 20% uncharged, 27% fully. Has great knockback, but also some start up lag.

Usmash

Slashes twice above him. Each hit deals 17% uncharged, 23% fully charged. If the first hit connects, the second won't due to knockback. Knockback is good.

He keeps his taunts from Brawl.

 

[Kiki52]

I think one person here said that Ganondorf should have the ability to float like Peach does. That would make sense because one of Ganondorf's taunts was he spins around floating laughing. That would make Ganondorf even less clonish of Captain Falcon then.