[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[UberMario]

If Ridley doesn't become playable in Smash 4, would he make a good Assist Trophy helper? Ridley might not be that good as a boss because he's very popular, and his fans do NOT want to beat him up.

*Looks at Metroid, then notices the point of this game*

He's a better Boss than an AT, but he'd be. in the best scenario, a playable character.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

is there even gonna be an SSB4??? I mean, "The Brawl to end them all," just advertising?

 

[n88]

Nintendo likes cash.

Making another Smash would get them cash.

Kind of a no-brainer decision here.

 

[UberMario]

There will [almost] definitely be another Smash.

It's just what happened to Mario Party that scares me about SSB . . . . .

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Melee was advertised as something like "The Battle to end them all." Now look at Brawl. Was I dreaming about that game for over a year?

 

[UberMario]

Melee was advertised as something like "The Battle to end them all." Now look at Brawl. Was I dreaming about that game for over a year?

Actually the slogan was "Nintendo's Best in 4-Player Action!"

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I heard somewhere (I forgot) that Melee was advertised as "The Battle To End Them All."

 

[Purellme]

On the Ridley discussion, I think him as a boss is a good idea only for the hackers though, otherwise him as an assist trophy is better. When he is a boss there is a code to control him in Boss Battles mode which is very fun to freak out your friends with while playing that mode. Unless they figured out how to do that with assist trophies o_0

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I have a question for you guys: If you play a Wi-Fi Match and one of your opponents is using hacked data of some sort, would the games of the other participants experience some problems because of that hacked data?

Also, just to give you guys the heads-up, I'm going to be off my computer in almost a half-hour.

 

[Lusitania]

Here's the newcomers I expect to be in SSB4:

• Bowser Jr.
• King K. Rool
• Dixie Kong
• Little Mac
• 5th Gen Pokemon
• Krystal
• Mega Man
• Balloon Fighter
• New Fire Emblem Lord
• Black Shadow

Is this accurate?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Here's the newcomers I expect to be in SSB4:

• Bowser Jr.
  [*]King K. Rool
  [*]Dixie Kong
• Little Mac
• 5th Gen Pokemon
  [*]Krystal
• Mega Man
  [*]Balloon Fighter
  [*]New Fire Emblem Lord
  [*]Black Shadow

Is this accurate?

The DK franchise doesn't deserve more than two fighters. The F-Zero franchise only deserves one fighter. We don't need Krystal playable, the SF franchise only deserves three fighters. If the BF's balloons are popped, then there's not much he can do. There might not be a new FE game by the time SSB4 comes out.

 

[Lusitania]

The DK franchise doesn't deserve more than two fighters. The F-Zero franchise only deserves one fighter. We don't need Krystal playable, the SF franchise only deserves three fighters. If the BF's balloons are popped, then there's not much he can do. There might not be a new FE game by the time SSB4 comes out.

Well, all of that makes sense except for the DK comment. DK is one of Nintendo's strongest series and doesn't get enough representation. We will have K.Rool, AT LEAST.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I got nothing against Donkey Kong, but his series has gone downhill ever since Nintendo sold Rare.

 

[Lusitania]

I got nothing against Donkey Kong, but his series has gone downhill ever since Nintendo sold Rare.

That's no reason to infer that DK won't get a representation in SSB4. Sakurai has shown some bias towards Dixie (there is incomplete data for a moveset for her in the Brawl disc) and K.Rool is a wanted fan favorite, possibly even more than Ridley.

 

[KingK.Rool]

The DK franchise doesn't deserve more than two fighters. The F-Zero franchise only deserves one fighter. We don't need Krystal playable, the SF franchise only deserves three fighters. If the BF's balloons are popped, then there's not much he can do. There might not be a new FE game by the time SSB4 comes out.

Why go on about what series deserves this many reps or that? They're not going to be going, "Mario has lots of popular, interesting characters, but it doesn't deserve more than four reps." The main factors to look at should strictly be popularity, potential (in the eyes of Sakurai), and of course minor factors like retro or advertisement (Roy, Lucario, etc).

And that point about Balloon Fighter is ridiculous. They could make it work if they wanted to.

 

[Clownbot]

And that point about Balloon Fighter is ridiculous. They could make it work if they wanted to.

Really? I don't see how they could.

Spoiler

Seriously, listen to K.Rool.

 

[Wizzerd]

Why go on about what series deserves this many reps or that? They're not going to be going, "Mario has lots of popular, interesting characters, but it doesn't deserve more than four reps." The main factors to look at should strictly be popularity, potential (in the eyes of Sakurai), and of course minor factors like retro or advertisement (Roy, Lucario, etc).

Why would you not go on about it? The larger a series, the more it sells, the better it's recieved, the more people there are that will recognize the character and appreciate them. Even if a certain character is popular within a fanbase what matters is how large that fanbase is. I agree with you about Balloon Fighter, though. Seeing as Sakurai has made suitable movesets for all of the retro characters I think he has the creativity to make Balloon Fighter a good one. He just is too lazy to express it all he can, which is why many movesets are so generic.

Lusitania: Looks like a good list, apart from Krystal, Dixie and Balloon Fighter. Star Fox is already overrepped and adding a fourth rep would be ridiculous. Donkey Kong doesn't need any more than three reps, and Dixie is pretty much dead and revived as a sports character like Birdo or Daisy. Balloon Fighter isn't all that popular, Little Mac and Lip (only retro as a character, as her series is alive) are both more popular retro representatives. Ridley also should be on it. However, there are some good picks in there.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Why would you not go on about it? The larger a series, the more it sells, the better it's recieved, the more people there are that will recognize the character and appreciate them. Even if a certain character is popular within a fanbase what matters is how large that fanbase is. I agree with you about Balloon Fighter, though. Seeing as Sakurai has made suitable movesets for all of the retro characters I think he has the creativity to make Balloon Fighter a good one. He just is too lazy to express it all he can, which is why many movesets are so generic.

The problem is that how many reps a particular series "deserves" is the kind of esoteric criterion that can't be clearly defined. Most speculators wouldn't say that Star Fox "deserves" three representatives and the obscure Earthbound two while F-Zero only has one, but that's how things are in Brawl regardless. To think that Sakurai (or whoever is designing the next Smash) is specifically weighing the popularity of each series to decide how many reps it gets is absurd. It's the kind of speculation that could have held water before Brawl, but by now it's clear that it's not a good argument for or against a given character.

Or else how would you explain Zelda technically having five characters, and Pokemon seven? Mario's bigger than either, Nintendo's flagship series, and it only has four.

 

[Clownbot]

Well, it is absurd to a certain extent, but... Hypothetically, would you like it if Fire Emblem beat out all of the other series in reps (sorry, guys)?

 

[UberMario]

I have a question for you guys: If you play a Wi-Fi Match and one of your opponents is using hacked data of some sort, would the games of the other participants experience some problems because of that hacked data?

Nope, as long as there aren't any music/texture hacks, there isn't any problem.

Even though I don't hack, I have a couple of replays on Target Test stage FFAs that saved perfectly.

 

[Wizzerd]

The problem is that how many reps a particular series "deserves" is the kind of esoteric criterion that can't be clearly defined. Most speculators wouldn't say that Star Fox "deserves" three representatives and the obscure Earthbound two while F-Zero only has one, but that's how things are in Brawl regardless. To think that Sakurai (or whoever is designing the next Smash) is specifically weighing the popularity of each series to decide how many reps it gets is absurd. It's the kind of speculation that could have held water before Brawl, but by now it's clear that it's not a good argument for or against a given character.

Or else how would you explain Zelda technically having five characters, and Pokemon seven? Mario's bigger than either, Nintendo's flagship series, and it only has four.

It isn't really all that hard to define: there are well-selling series out there who deserve to be repped. The roster admittedly isn't perfect this way, with Star Fox getting three reps and Mother getting two over F-Zero, but there's an explanation for all of these. Both of Star Fox's additions were clearly added at the last minute without a regard for a balanced roster, and Star Fox lucked out that it got a rare last-minute addition both times: it's unlikely, but Star Fox got lucky, and the series is unlikely to get another rep in SSB4. Lucas was added out of Sakurai's preference for the Mother series, and he probably wouldn't have been added if Sakurai wasn't making Brawl as if it was his last Smash. F-Zero is honestly an obscure and not a very significant series which hasn't had a game since the GameCube- I probably wouldn't support Black Shadow if he couldn't inherit Ganondorf's moveset (not trying to start a debate). Putting aside these characters the roster is very well-balanced.

Sakurai's the developer so he's going to think of characters as movesets, but he recognizes that people think of slots as characters, so he has Mario match Zelda and Pokemon only in slots. Also remember that Sakurai considers trophies and extras to count as representation, and Mario is very much favored in trophies and other extras.

 

[Pieman0920]

The problem is that how many reps a particular series "deserves" is the kind of esoteric criterion that can't be clearly defined. Most speculators wouldn't say that Star Fox "deserves" three representatives and the obscure Earthbound two while F-Zero only has one, but that's how things are in Brawl regardless. To think that Sakurai (or whoever is designing the next Smash) is specifically weighing the popularity of each series to decide how many reps it gets is absurd. It's the kind of speculation that could have held water before Brawl, but by now it's clear that it's not a good argument for or against a given character.

Or else how would you explain Zelda technically having five characters, and Pokemon seven? Mario's bigger than either, Nintendo's flagship series, and it only has four.

Sales and popularity are still something that cleraly determines the amount of characters a series gets. Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, all are the best selling/most popular franchises, and they have four spots, aka the maximum in Brawl. As for Zelda and Pokemon having a technical higher amount of movesets, that's only because of said characters being transformation characters. (In addition, a good deal of Mario franchise characters have split off into their own series. The whole columm next to the Mario series is spin off characters) While its true that there are a few blips within the trend, such as the case of Star Fox, the amount of characters within a series is generally follows popularity.

 

[KingK.Rool]

It isn't really all that hard to define: there are well-selling series out there who deserve to be repped. The roster admittedly isn't perfect this way, with Star Fox getting three reps and Mother getting two over F-Zero, but there's an explanation for all of these. Both of Star Fox's additions were clearly added at the last minute without a regard for a balanced roster, and Star Fox lucked out that it got a rare last-minute addition both times: it's unlikely, but Star Fox got lucky, and the series is unlikely to get another rep in SSB4. Lucas was added out of Sakurai's preference for the Mother series, and he probably wouldn't have been added if Sakurai wasn't making Brawl as if it was his last Smash. F-Zero is honestly an obscure and not a very significant series which hasn't had a game since the GameCube- I probably wouldn't support Black Shadow if he couldn't inherit Ganondorf's moveset (not trying to start a debate). Putting aside these characters the roster is very well-balanced.

Wolf was added at the last minute? I don't see anything to support this except that he's a luigified clone and that he doesn't have a role in the SSE - a trait he shares with Jigglypuff. Falco may have been a careless last minute addition, but you imply that all the clones are, and that throws the same logic into question: Young Link was added as a careless last-second addition, and therefore wasn't put in with the purpose of giving Zelda a "deserved" fourth rep.

I don't remember hearing about this preference for Mother, and I still wouldn't say the roster is perfectly balanced, ignoring it. What about Warioware, a huge, well-liked, money-making series and its one rep?

Sakurai's the developer so he's going to think of characters as movesets, but he recognizes that people think of slots as characters, so he has Mario match Zelda and Pokemon only in slots. Also remember that Sakurai considers trophies and extras to count as representation, and Mario is very much favored in trophies and other extras.

An interesting point that I hadn't considered, but again, I doubt he specifically adds trophies for the sake of the series "deserving" more trophies. If there are a lot of interesting characters or subjects, there'll be a lot of trophies.

Sales and popularity are still something that cleraly determines the amount of characters a series gets. Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, all are the best selling/most popular franchises, and they have four spots, aka the maximum in Brawl. As for Zelda and Pokemon having a technical higher amount of movesets, that's only because of said characters being transformation characters. (In addition, a good deal of Mario franchise characters have split off into their own series. The whole columm next to the Mario series is spin off characters) While its true that there are a few blips within the trend, such as the case of Star Fox, the amount of characters within a series is generally follows popularity.

Of course it does - it follows popularity of a given character. A more popular series is bound to have more popular characters, but that's an incidental ratio. Characters should exist in a vacuum: if they're popular and have potential, they're likely to be added. If there's a character who's popular and has potential, Sakurai's going to add them, no matter how many reps that series already has. Discounting, say, K. Rool, or Black Shadow (when he clearly could inherit Ganondorf's moveset without any real trouble) on the basis that you feel the series is "overrepped" is just ridiculous. We're moving into obscure territory here either way, and an imbalance in roster representation really seems a ridiculous thing to influence what characters get in.

 

[Pieman0920]

Of course it does - it follows popularity of a given character. A more popular series is bound to have more popular characters, but that's an incidental ratio. Characters should exist in a vacuum: if they're popular and have potential, they're likely to be added. If there's a character who's popular and has potential, Sakurai's going to add them, no matter how many reps that series already has. Discounting, say, K. Rool, or Black Shadow (when he clearly could inherit Ganondorf's moveset without any real trouble) on the basis that you feel the series is "overrepped" is just ridiculous. We're moving into obscure territory here either way, and an imbalance in roster representation really seems a ridiculous thing to influence what characters get in.

Black Shadow getting Ganondorf's moveset is such a bad/unrealistic idea...heck, I don't think most F-Zero fans really endorse the idea, but rather LoZ fans who want Ganondorf to use a sword. Really now, Samurai Goroh is such a better choice, and could actually not be a clone. (Plus its more likely that Ganondorf will keep his moveset in the next game, with a few moves switched up to be even farther from Captain Falcon)

Anyways, I don't think it quite works the way you say it does. Wolf wasn't excatly super popular, and he never had all too much pottential, but he got added in anyways. Toon Link was popular and had pottential, but that was wasted and he was made a clone. Only Charizard was really popular in the PT's lineup, but they all got in. Ridley, Krystal, and others were all popular and had pottential, but they didn't get in. There are a lot of kinks when it comes to the roster of these games, but one of the few things that seems to remain constant is that popular series get more characters, and I think that will be something that will persist.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Black Shadow getting Ganondorf's moveset is such a bad/unrealistic idea...heck, I don't think most F-Zero fans really endorse the idea, but rather LoZ fans who want Ganondorf to use a sword. Really now, Samurai Goroh is such a better choice, and could actually not be a clone. (Plus its more likely that Ganondorf will keep his moveset in the next game, with a few moves switched up to be even farther from Captain Falcon)

You lost me; how does it NOT make sense for Black Shadow to have Ganondorf's moveset? It's similar to Falcon's, which makes more sense for a second F-Zero character than for Ganondorf, of all people, and it also fits his body shape equally well. It's like the perfect solution, how can anyone not agree with that?

And I'd guess that F-Zero fans would be happy enough just to get a second rep for their series.

Anyways, I don't think it quite works the way you say it does. Wolf wasn't excatly super popular, and he never had all too much pottential, but he got added in anyways. Toon Link was popular and had pottential, but that was wasted and he was made a clone. Only Charizard was really popular in the PT's lineup, but they all got in. Ridley, Krystal, and others were all popular and had pottential, but they didn't get in. There are a lot of kinks when it comes to the roster of these games, but one of the few things that seems to remain constant is that popular series get more characters, and I think that will be something that will persist.

Wolf has always been fairly popular, he had tons of supporters before Brawl came out. And on the flip side, his series has never been all that popular either, compared to others.

It could be argued that Ridley's body shape wouldn't work in Brawl. I would disagree, of course, but you have to see how Sakurai would see it.

Krystal is only more popular than Wolf because of the obvious reason, and I doubt that's the target audience Sakurai had in mind.

I still think it's more a matter of popular characters, on their own merits, get in, than Sakurai stretches to include a presumed "deserved" number of reps for each series, but I'm starting to retread the same argument and the line is rather blurry there anyway.

 

[Wizzerd]

Wolf was added at the last minute? I don't see anything to support this except that he's a luigified clone and that he doesn't have a role in the SSE - a trait he shares with Jigglypuff. Falco may have been a careless last minute addition, but you imply that all the clones are, and that throws the same logic into question: Young Link was added as a careless last-second addition, and therefore wasn't put in with the purpose of giving Zelda a "deserved" fourth rep.

I don't remember hearing about this preference for Mother, and I still wouldn't say the roster is perfectly balanced, ignoring it. What about Warioware, a huge, well-liked, money-making series and its one rep?

There's plenty of evidence... Wolf could have easily been implemented in the SSE at the last minute by defending the Subspace Cannon or destroying it, but Sakurai had Kirby save the day. Kirby bias? Or did Wolf not even exist yet? I'm betting on the latter. You're forgetting that there were clones added to each major series as well (Dr. Mario, Pichu) and factoring in Ganondorf's clonishness to the equation we get Mario, Zelda and Pokemon with 4, 2 and 3 reps respectively and no other series getting multiple reps, which fits with sales.

I'm almost certain that I read, perhaps in one of the Iwata Asks, that Sakurai likes the Mother series, but I can't find the link. I could be wrong, though. And no, I didn't say that the roster is perfect discounting that, I said that it's very good. Donkey Kong could have reasonably gotten K.Rool as a third rep (not trying to start a secondary debate here, Pieman), but that's mainly because Star Fox got three. As for WarioWare, perhaps Sakurai didn't want to give any series two more representatives (in the final number, not the amount of newcomers) outside of Kirby, which needed two more and Sakurai probably had some bias, but I'm assuming a lot with that. In any case, it isn't a huge issue.

An interesting point that I hadn't considered, but again, I doubt he specifically adds trophies for the sake of the series "deserving" more trophies. If there are a lot of interesting characters or subjects, there'll be a lot of trophies.

What about Mother and Fire Emblem? Both are RPGs with no shortage of characters, but recieved four trophies each (discounting character and AT trophies, which have to become trophies). In comparison, Zelda got 17. Zelda has very few recurring characters, and this is shown with characters like Agitha and Malo as trophies, and yet it got 17. It seems that Sakurai directs his lackeys to put X amount of trophies in for Y series (which is why which trophies don't count, which is evident in all of the TP NPC trophies).

 

[Pieman0920]

You lost me; how does it NOT make sense for Black Shadow to have Ganondorf's moveset? It's similar to Falcon's, which makes more sense for a second F-Zero character than for Ganondorf, of all people, and it also fits his body shape equally well. It's like the perfect solution, how can anyone not agree with that?

And I'd guess that F-Zero fans would be happy enough just to get a second rep for their series.

I can't think of a correct analogy with characters from another series, but Black Shadow shouldn't get in before Goroh. One has been the rival of the main character since the series began, and the other has never been the main villain unless you count the anime. (But that's like saying that Team Rocket should get in Smash) Goroh actually has pottential for a non-clone moveset as well, while Black Shadow only has the half baked idea of switching his moveset with Ganondorf's current one. Seriously, that's why the idea seems like its just something from Ganondorf fans, because it disregards the proper representation of one series for the benefit of another, if you can even call it a benefit. Still, I think its more likely that Ganondorf will keep his clone moveset (with a few changes) and no F-Zero rep, before it gets switched over to BS.

Wolf has always been fairly popular, he had tons of supporters before Brawl came out. And on the flip side, his series has never been all that popular either, compared to others.

It could be argued that Ridley's body shape wouldn't work in Brawl. I would disagree, of course, but you have to see how Sakurai would see it.

Krystal is only more popular than Wolf because of the obvious reason, and I doubt that's the target audience Sakurai had in mind.

I still think it's more a matter of popular characters, on their own merits, get in, than Sakurai stretches to include a presumed "deserved" number of reps for each series, but I'm starting to retread the same argument and the line is rather blurry there anyway.

Wolf's poplarity here was never as large as Krystal's here, but I don't know how that translated in Japan. As it stands, I don't think that all of Krystal's fans were furries, like you're implying, since on those grounds, I could say that so were Wolves, only they swing a different way.

Anyways, as far as trophies go, a big factor in if a series got trophies or not is if they had a game on the Game Cube, since the majority of trophies were ripped from other games, rather than just being created from scratch, like a good chunk of Melee's.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Oh, god. I had a huge argument to your points, Wiz, and I accidentally pressed some combination of keys and it all got lost. Garbage. The most important point was just that if trophies count as representation, which you're arguing and which makes perfect sense, then that's ultimately another check against your original argument, in that instead of adding another character for an "underrepped" series, Sakurai could just toss together some more trophies. The rest was mostly just nitpicks, as we're getting deeper and deeper into tiny points now.

I can't think of a correct analogy with characters from another series, but Black Shadow shouldn't get in before Goroh. One has been the rival of the main character since the series began, and the other has never been the main villain unless you count the anime. (But that's like saying that Team Rocket should get in Smash) Goroh actually has pottential for a non-clone moveset as well, while Black Shadow only has the half baked idea of switching his moveset with Ganondorf's current one. Seriously, that's why the idea seems like its just something from Ganondorf fans, because it disregards the proper representation of one series for the benefit of another, if you can even call it a benefit. Still, I think its more likely that Ganondorf will keep his clone moveset (with a few changes) and no F-Zero rep, before it gets switched over to BS.

I have no real opinion on the Black Shadow vs Goroh argument, although I maintain that passing Ganondorf's set on to him would make everyone at least marginally happy.

Wolf's poplarity here was never as large as Krystal's here, but I don't know how that translated in Japan. As it stands, I don't think that all of Krystal's fans were furries, like you're implying, since on those grounds, I could say that so were Wolves, only they swing a different way.

Oh, no doubt Krystal has a larger fanbase. I'm just bringing up WHY she has that fanbase.

Here's the original Krystal for Brawl thread from way back when. Give the first post a good read, and look at the many and varied arguments therein. And to be fair, here's the updated thread with all the compiled argument for, which can be summed up with "MORE FEMALE REPS".

Here's the Wolf thread, which presents much more logical arguments and also shows that Wolf does indeed have a following not much smaller than Krystal's.

Thing is, Wolf has a personality. He's just cool. Krystal is, well, generic. She's boring, she's just a love interest. That's why people wanted her in Brawl.

Kinda derailed the topic, but I think it's relevant.

 

[Wizzerd]

Oh, god. I had a huge argument to your points, Wiz, and I accidentally pressed some combination of keys and it all got lost. Garbage. The most important point was just that if trophies count as representation, which you're arguing and which makes perfect sense, then that's ultimately another check against your original argument, in that instead of adding another character for an "underrepped" series, Sakurai could just toss together some more trophies. The rest was mostly just nitpicks, as we're getting deeper and deeper into tiny points now.

Yeah, I hate when that happens. Anyway, I think that Sakurai knows that people really won't be pleased as much if a series is repped by trophies instead of characters. He might be dumb enough to do it, but I think that he thinks that it totally justifies it, though it counts for something. In fact, maybe amounts of trophies for different series are more of an insight into Sakurai's thoughts on representations then representation itself, but I'm willing to concede here.

Also, I totally agree that Krystal should never get in, and I despise her as a character, but you kind of imply that Krystal's fanbase is made up entirely of furries... which isn't true, and furry-ism isn't a completely sexual thing...

 

[RickyPro]

I had a list going of character that I think would be awesome to have included in SSB4 going last year.

Here it is:

(King)Boo, Amy, Knuckles, Shadow, Cream, Tails,K.Rool, Hector, Micaiah, Lyn, Claus(Masked), Ninten, Vaati, Tingle, Ridley, Dana (Solomon's Key), Isaac, Ray 01, Black Shadow, Bowser Jr., Starfy, Waluigi, Rosalina, Banjo&Kazooie, Bomberman, Megaman, Vietiful Joe, Tomba!(Tomba!), Dana(Solomon's Key), Ray(SPRay).

I know some of them may sound ridiculous, but hey, DON'T JUDGE ME!!!

 

[n88]

Why do people like ^^^ always want Sonic characters?

 

[Clownbot]

I had a list going of character that I think would be awesome to have included in SSB4 going last year.

Here it is:

(King)Boo, Amy, Knuckles, Shadow, Cream, Tails,K.Rool, Hector, Micaiah, Lyn, Claus(Masked), Ninten, Vaati, Tingle, Ridley, Dana (Solomon's Key), Isaac, Ray 01, Black Shadow, Bowser Jr., Starfy, Waluigi, Rosalina, Banjo&Kazooie, Bomberman, Megaman, Vietiful Joe, Tomba!(Tomba!), Dana(Solomon's Key), Ray(SPRay).

I know some of them may sound ridiculous, but hey, DON'T JUDGE ME!!!

Even though you made it so easy to crack a joke about this, I'll give it a serious reply.

King Boo doesn't display any significance outside of Luigi's Mansion.

*skips past ****load of Sonic characters that won't get in because Sonic doesn't need that many characters*

Unless any of the FE characters you mentioned get another game, I doubt they'll be playable.

Claus/Masked Man might just be our best bet for a new MOTHER character, but I don't really think we need any more.

Tingle and Vaati probably won't get in at the same time; most people view Tingle as being more likely than Vaati.

I've never heard of Solomon's Key.

Isaac isn't the main protagonist of GSDS, he possibly won't even appear in it.

Waluigi is insignificant. Rosalina needs a bit more attention before she has a chance of being playable.

Too many 3rd Parties, and you mentioned Dana from Solomon's Key a second time...

 

[RickyPro]

Honestly, I put sonic characters in there just to have people say something about it. I really dislike the sonic in Brawl. But I think that if there were one or two other sonic characters, that it would be cool because sonic characters have potential to be great.

I never really question the chances of the characters being in the game, I just imagine playing them in the game, and I really like what I imagine.

There you go.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Yeah, I hate when that happens. Anyway, I think that Sakurai knows that people really won't be pleased as much if a series is repped by trophies instead of characters. He might be dumb enough to do it, but I think that he thinks that it totally justifies it, though it counts for something. In fact, maybe amounts of trophies for different series are more of an insight into Sakurai's thoughts on representations then representation itself, but I'm willing to concede here.

Also, I totally agree that Krystal should never get in, and I despise her as a character, but you kind of imply that Krystal's fanbase is made up entirely of furries... which isn't true, and furry-ism isn't a completely sexual thing...

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that. I'm just saying that, historically, the biggest reason people support Krystal is because of, well, sex appeal. It's certainly not because of her effervescent personality, or her fascinating character, or her unending potential. Whereas the reasons people had for supporting Wolf were much more diverse.

 

[Pieman0920]

Oh, no doubt Krystal has a larger fanbase. I'm just bringing up WHY she has that fanbase.

Here's the original Krystal for Brawl thread from way back when. Give the first post a good read, and look at the many and varied arguments therein. And to be fair, here's the updated thread with all the compiled argument for, which can be summed up with "MORE FEMALE REPS".

Here's the Wolf thread, which presents much more logical arguments and also shows that Wolf does indeed have a following not much smaller than Krystal's.

Thing is, Wolf has a personality. He's just cool. Krystal is, well, generic. She's boring, she's just a love interest. That's why people wanted her in Brawl.

Kinda derailed the topic, but I think it's relevant.

I don't see many arguments for Wolf there, but maybe that's because it got edited when people learned he was in? In any case, the main reason people wanted him in back in the day was "MORE VILLAIN REPS" which didn't make much sense either. Wolf is also just as generic as Krystal is, all things said, though Command fleshes them both out more (Krystal more so in my opinion, since there isn't much character development for Wolf who either betrays Fox or....well betrays Fox) And the one thing that Krystal did have on Wolf back then, and she still technically does, is the fact that she wouldn't be a clone. Now Wolf isn't a full clone, and Falco is closer one than him, its still a noticable problem in regards to the character.

But yeah, as Wizzerd said, you can't constantly come to the conclusion that all of Krystal's supporters have to be furries, and that's the only reason anyone wants her in. All things considered, she probably was the better choice than Wolf going into Brawl, though in regards to SSB4, that may be suspect.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am sick of seeing Ridley's name. If Ridley becomes playable in SSB4, I hope Sakurai trolls the fanboys by making Ridley worse than Mewtwo was in Melee.

 

[Clownbot]

I am sick of seeing Ridley's name. If Ridley becomes playable in SSB4, I hope Sakurai trolls the fanboys by making Ridley worse than Mewtwo was in Melee.

It sounds more like you had a traumatic experience involving purple dragons more than it sounds like you simply don't think he's a viable character.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Does anyone else besides me want to see Star Man (from Pro Wrestling) appear in the next SSB? It'd be neat to hear the crowd chant "A winner is you!".

Also, Mach Rider. I've heard rumors that he is supposed to be Sakurai's favorite character (although he clearly hasn't gotten a chance to be playable yet).

Oh yes, and Goemon as a guest char.

 

[Wizzerd]

Goemon isn't getting in. If I would make a list, I would say that there are eight third parties who stand any chance at all to get into a Smash game:

• Megaman
• Simon Belmont
• Bomberman
• Ryu
• Slime
• Chocobo
• Nightmare/Yoshimitsu/other Soul Calibur Character
• Crono

 

[Volkner582]

*skips past ****load of Sonic characters that won't get in because Sonic doesn't need that many characters*

I don't see why Tails can't get in.