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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Pieman0920

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...what oriented? What do you mean by that?

Anyways, Sothe probaby wouldn't get in, seeing as Micaiah is a all around better choice than him. Maybe he does use a knife instead of a sword, and maybe he does have green hair instead of blue, but that doesn't change much.
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
When I called Sothe sexually-orientated, I meant that he would be considered "hot" to certain people. Check his Brawl trophy and inspect it well. I am pretty fine with male fighters being sexually-orientated. Also, I thought lots of people hated Micaiah.
 

Pieman0920

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People who dislike Micaiah also tend to dislike Sothe. Its a gameplay thing I assume...at least I've heard a fair share of complaints over the fact that Sothe is mandatory in the endgame. Whatever the case, I'm fairly sure Smash has the male characters covered for the most part. =/
 

Mario the Jumpman

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Why would I tell you guys that?
I would personally love to see Sothe in his adult form as a playable character in Smash 4. At least he's a better choice than Roy and Lyn.

Also, what does everyone on this forum think of having selectable versions of the Sandbag that look like each playable character? That way, whenever someone hates a certain character, they can beat that character up to their heart's content. If Cloud Strife becomes playable, at least I can get Sheik and Falco to beat up that ridiculously over-rated imbecile.
 

Big-Cat

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I am not taking about simple 1-1 fighting games that are simple, I am talking about games with some complexities, the Franchises like Soul Caliber, King of Fighters, Street Fighter, and Tekken. It would be very difficult to properly execute the Smash Bros. control system that will be inputted into the characters since they mostly concentrate on player combat system, not on battlefield-like environments.
What exactly are you saying here?

Anyway, like I said, it's not that hard to implement Street Fighter characters into Smash. For the most part, you can adapt their movesets for Smash as they have aerial attacks and their own specials. It would be like Smash if you changed the damage system, added platforms, and allowed the Smash methods of KOs.
 

Clownbot

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@MtJ: It's hilarious that you hate sexism, but you think Sothe could be in because some people might find him "hot".
 

n88

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Sexually-oriented male characters?

We've already got too many of those. Seriously. DK wears only a tie, Diddy has no pants, and Yoshi, Kirby, Bowser, and all the Pokemon besides Lucario are completely naked. Plus, Snake, Link, and C. Falcon kinda qualify, too. What more do you want?

EDIT: Also, Sonic only wears shoes and gloves, and who knows about GaW?
 

UberMario

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I now have to wonder what Jumpman thinks whenever he plays.

I mean really, WHAT are you talking about? This is a battling game not a "Mr. Smash" contest.
 

Wizzerd

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"Today, the veggies and fruits...tomorrow, trees, flowers, grass...even fungus!"

Eggplant Wizard

~ --- Background --- ~

Your average vegetable-based opponent, Eggplant Wizzeards were a constant source of annoyance in the original Kid Icarus for the NES. Not only did they have high HP and often come in groups, their eggplant projectiles caused Pit to turn into an eggplant himself, making him unable to attack. Notably, Eggplant Wizard appeared as a lackey of Mother Brain in the campy 1990s cartoon Captain N: The Game Master, him tossing his usual eggplants and occasionally using eggplant-based machinery. This moveset is mainly based upon his game incarnation. In Smash, he is just as persistent and irritating of an opponent as he always has been...

~ --- Statistics --- ~

Priority ~ 6
Power ~ 5
Range ~ 5
Recovery ~ 5
Size ~ 5
Attack Speed ~ 4
Movement Speed ~ 4
Fall Speed ~ 3
Weight ~ 3
Traction ~ 2
Wall Jump:
No
Wall Cling: No
Crawl: No
Glide: No

You can't really expect a sentient vegetable to have the greatest statistics. Eggplant Wizard is at first glance an average character, him having gratingly average power, range, recovery and size, and his priority goes a little above par, but he has some stats that stick out as bad and drag him down, most importantly his speed and weight. So what does Eggplant Wizard have going for himself? I don't know, what?

~ --- Eggplanted! --- ~

This is what saves the Eggplant Wizard from low to garbage tier. A good amount of Eggplant Wizard deal low damage and knockback, instead steadily turning the opponent into an eggplant. As an eggplant, opponents can move at the speed of Jigglypuff's walk, run and dash and dodge regularly, but they can't attack (Nor recover) at all. Their weight also decreases to a little below Jigglypuff's. Of course, Eggplant Wizard can't turn the opponent into an eggplant all at once. Attacks only partially transform an enemy into an eggplant, either 1/8 or 1/4 or what-have-you of the way until a full eggplant state. On top of this, each eggplanting attack causes a lessening in the same attributes, them losing movement speed and weight such that their movement speed and weight would be fully lessened by the time they're fully transformed.

Still, each individual eggplanting effect wears off after thirty seconds. For example, if you 1/4 eggplant the opponent, they'll lose 1/4 of their eggplanting 30 seconds later unless otherwise noted, so you have to be efficient with your eggplanting. Opponents also lose all eggplant effects upon being KOd.

~ --- Special Attacks --- ~

~ -- Down Special ~ Eggplants in Formation
Eggplant Wizard places one of his classic eggplants on the stage, him taking around a second as he directs it with his magic. Eggplants can (Theoretically) remain onstage for the entire match, them having infinite stamina, but they're the approximate size and shape of a Soccer Ball and can be knocked around just like one (Albeit flying half the distance), so it isn't too difficult to dispatch of them though the Eggplant Wizard has some tools to defend them with... Still, they come down with very little lag, so what's the point? The amount of eggplants which can be positioned varies depending on stage size; Battlefield allows only one but New Pork City and 75m allow for a massive seven, it obviously fluctuating in between.

By imputting this move like a Smash Attack, Eggplant Wizard can rotate a cursor appearing above a single one of these eggplants, selecting them for what's to come. Pressing B out of a shield deselects an eggplant entirely.

If Eggplant Wizard uses an eggplant-based attack while an eggplant is selected... the hitbox is that eggplant. For example, with his Neutral Special, Eggplant Wizard can toss an eggplant from somewhere else on the stage. This greatly adds to Eggplant Wizard's playstyle, allowing him for awesome stage control. How moves work when used from an eggplant is detailed after each move.
[No Damage]

~ -- Special ~ Eggplant Toss
This is Eggplant Wizard's trademark (read: only) attack from Kid Icarus. Eggplant Wizard leans back slightly with a single eggplant in his hands, and tosses it in a diagonal arc. In fact, this move is quite similar in animation to Yoshi's Egg Toss, albeit with slightly more lag, less range and more limited aimability (by about a sixth each way). On contact, instead of dealing damage or knockback, this begins to turn the opponent into an eggplant!

This is somewhat tricky to land, being a rather laggy projectile without much range, but it's probably Eggplant Wizard's most accessible tool for eggplanting the opponent. Many other eggplanting attacks are even more difficult to land or don't cause significant eggplanting. Just like in Kid Icarus, Eggplant Wizard's going to throw a hell of a lot of eggplants.
[1/4 Eggplant]

~ -- Side Special ~ Eggplant Limbs
Eggplant Wizard holds his staff to his side like a baseball bat before swinging it forward, it being possible to angle the swing upwards or downwards by up to 45 degrees. This has negligible startup lag, but the ending lag approaches half a second on a miss. This only deals 8% with below average knockback, so it isn't really worth it, though it reflects projectiles if nothing else.

If Eggplant Wizard outprioritizes a jointed or disjointed move with this (which isn't hard, the priority is amazing), the opponent takes a brief stun (just as long as the ending lag, you can't punish it), and the part of their body outprioritized turns into an eggplant, shaped just like they were before but purple. This is an eggplant effect in the sense that it can stack on others, but it doesn't prevent attacking. Instead, attacks using the transformed part of the body will have 50% more lag and 25% less damage and knockback. Characters reliant on one hitbox, like sword users, can't have their entire movepool removed at once, however. If a part of the body is used for more than 50% of attacks, it requires two hits from this to be transformed, the effect not taking place until then. This effect remains for only 15 seconds, so be careful! The eggplanting effect depends on how large the outprioritized part of the body was, varying from 1/16 to 1/2 depending on size, though disjointed hitboxes don't count towards this.

One of Eggplant Wizard's most useful tools. Using this move, Eggplant Wizard can selectively remove the vital parts of an opponent's playstyle, this being most effective against moves that stay out for a while, like the dreaded Mach Tornado. Still, it's hard to land against other attacks, but once you land this Eggplant Wizard can generally whale on the opponent for a good bit of time.
[8% + 1/16 - 1/2 Eggplant]

~ -- Up Special ~ Eggplant Floor
Eggplant Wizard lifts his staff upwards, summoning a small eggplant zephyr, it being mobile in any direction at a high speed, similar to Sonic in his Final Smash, though it can halt in place. It disappears after two seconds, or once the B button is pressed again. He doesn't fall in midair and has super armor while using this.

If Eggplant Wizard presses the B button on an area of the stage, an area of 1.5X Bowser around it turns into a chunk of eggplant, and a part of Eggplant Wizard's will, remaining for five seconds. During this period, all ledges on it can only be grabbed by the Eggplant Wizard, and more importantly, they have a massive magnetism effect, being automatically grabbable from up to 1.5 Stage Builder Blocks away. Eggplant Wizard also has a wall cling and infinite wall jumps on eggplanted areas of the stage. While on top of them, he can even use a crawl on the level of Yoshi's in speed and lowness to the ground.

Eggplant Floor is somewhat tricky to use, and it's difficult to recover with it on flat stages like Pokemon Stadium 2 (though it's ridiculously easy on stages like Yoshi's Island), but what makes it so great is the sheer safety of it. While customers with quick and powerful recoveries like Jigglypuff and the legendary Meta Knight can build up a bit of damage on Eggplant Wizard as he does this, but generally Eggplant Wizard gets a whole lot of mobility and unpredictability out of this. Mix up grabbing the ledge with wall clinging and wall jumping and this can take Eggplant Wizard far.

This causes a slight eggplant effect if used on the opponent, but this is rather predictable and shieldable.
[1/8 Eggplant]

~ --- Standard Attacks --- ~

~ -- Neutral Attack ~ Eggplant Wart
Eggplant Wizard makes a close-ranged tapping motion with his staff. This is surprisingly laggy for a jab, having a duration of around half a second, and can be crouched under, but deals 3% as well as makes a large purple wart the size of a Pokeball on the head of the opponent. This counts as an eggplanting effect, but it doesn't lower the opponent's movement or attack speed, simply stacking for when they're fully turned into an eggplant. It wears off after only fifteen seconds, however.

The wart can be removed by attacking it like a Pikmin, it having a mere 5 stamina. However, if the wart is destroyed in a second or less, it bursts on the opponent, dealing them 8% with flinching knockback, so this isn't so easy to get rid of. Still, the opponent should get rid of it quickly, as any attacks hitting the wart deal 1.5X damage and knockback, though removing its stamina. All in all, Eggplant Wart is a fairly useful move, and it isn't nearly as useless as many other jabs.
[3% + 8% + 1/8 Eggplant]

~ -- Dash Attack ~ Levitation
Eggplant Wizard lifts up from the ground the distance of a Pokeball for brief startup lag, being able to continue floating forward at ¾ his regular dash speed until the A button is released, at which point he lowers to the ground with just as little lag. However, there's little reason you'll want to be using this instead of dashing regularly, as Eggplant Wizard moves even slower than normal and has only a little priority without dealing damage or knockback, though he can slip over low attacks like Down Tilts. This can outprioritize certain weak projectiles, if nothing else.

The attack is not the point, however... if Eggplant Wizard has an eggplant selected with his Down Special, the eggplant levitates as well and moves forward at the same speed as Eggplant Wizard. By simply tilting the Control Stick Eggplant Wizard can only turn himself around so him and the eggplant can oppose each other, but by tapping it they both turn around, making this a highly useful way of repositioning eggplants. Still, the eggplant has no priority unlike Eggplant Wizard, hits knocking it away as normal, so try to be unpredictable as you move the eggplant. One of Eggplant Wizard's most important attacks.
[No Damage]

~ --- Tilt Attacks --- ~

~ -- Forward Tilt ~ Staff Poke
Eggplant Wizard holds his staff between his fingers and quickly pokes forward with it and slides it back. This has nearly no lag, good range, can be aimed and deals a decidedly broken 18% with surprising knockback which can serve as an emergency KO move- so what's the downside?

Staff Poke has very little priority. It's even outprioritized by the ambient priority of the opponent's body- that is, the attack is immediately outprioritized when it connects. Well, how the hell can it be landed, then!? The bodies of opponents no longer have ambient priority when eggplanted. That means that this can only land if it hits an eggplanted part of the opponent's body. It needs to be at least 1/2 eggplanted, however, so it won't work when the opponent is barely eggplanted- this is better on regional eggplanting effects. Fortunately this can be aimed up to 45 degrees in either direction so it isn't too hard to land it in the right place. Overall, a nice attack which should see a good amount of use.
[18%]

~ -- Up Tilt ~ Eggplant's Grasp
Eggplant Wizard balances his staff on a finger above himself, for an animation and hitbox sort of like Marth's Up Smash. However, this isn't nearly as useful, the good range being negated by the poor damage and knockback, low priority and surprising ending lag. It could still be moderately useful for anti-air, though Eggplant Wizard has better ways of doing this...

If Eggplant Wizard has an eggplant selected, at the same time as the move, it turns into a hand the width and double the height of Bowser, which quickly reaches upwards before slamming down, dealing an impressive 15% with a powerful meteor smashing effect. This is positively amazing for anti-air should the opponent happen to be right above an eggplant (and it isn't too hard to reposition yourself to one, or even quickly summon one!), but the eggplant hand has surprisingly low priority, and shorter customers can crouch/idle right under it! Still, Eggplant's Grasp is an excellent way of making sure opponents don't escape from Eggplant Wizard's grasp, and he needs to be in control. All the time.
[6% + 15%]

~ -- Down Tilt ~ Eggplant Swipe
Sort of like Ike's Down Tilt, Eggplant Wizard does a swipe over the ground. This is a touch more laggy then even Ike's, and only deals 6% with flinching knockback (though it does have a tripping effect), but it turns the opponent's legs into twin eggplants. This counts towards eggplanting, but not to a massive degree. Instead, the eggplant limbs remain for thirty seconds, quadrupling random tripping during the period!

Of course, random tripping is nowhere near as common as the tourneyf*gs like to say... this is still moderately useful though...
6% + 1/8 Eggplant]
 

Big-Cat

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n88_2004, are any of the characters you mentioned considered "hot" by some people? Pit might be sexually-orientated...
Pit's the obligatory Cute Shotaro Boy. It'd go to Ness and Lucas, but their proportions are not realistic enough.
 

n88

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n88_2004, are any of the characters you mentioned considered "hot" by some people? Pit might be sexually-orientated...
Um, I suppose Snake could be, but that was kind of a joke. Otherwise known as an attempt at humor. We need "Hot" people like we need health meters.


I think Roy has a decent chance of making it in, as he'll give FE a third rep without making a lotof work for Sakurai (He'll be a Luigified clone of Marth at best)
 

lordvaati

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yes. the Bishies would qualify as attractive men. Pit got fangirls after they revamped his look. and there are still people to this day that play Smash and think Marth is a girl.
 

UberMario

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There are still people to this day that play Smash and think Marth is a girl.
Which is quite sad since it says he's a prince in plenty of places in every game he's in, and his voice is definitely masculine in both Smash Bros. games.
 

Volkner582

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yes. the Bishies would qualify as attractive men. Pit got fangirls after they revamped his look. and there are still people to this day that play Smash and think Marth is a girl.
What? How does Marth not look like a man?
 

Arcadenik

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I remember when Marth was first revealed in Brawl, some people commented that Marth looked like an Asian girl. I am guessing they were referring to his eyes, his hairstyle, and of course, his tiara. But I am sure Marth won't look like an Asian girl in SSB4 since he actually looked masculine in Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon.
 

UberMario

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If yo ask me, that tiara is what makes him so masculine. Anyway, since when has a tiara been exclusive to women?
Exactly, and I coud of sworn I remember reading somewhere that he wears it to remember his younger sister who was captured during the war he fights in.
 

Wizzerd

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wckd said:
Get Tingle in this conversation and we'll talk about manliness.
Fixed.

To make this post only partially spammish: Yeah, DekuBoy, Isaac will most likely not be in GS3. We will probably get the main character instead of Isaac.
 

UberMario

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Fixed.

To make this post only partially spammish: Yeah, DekuBoy, Isaac will most likely not be in GS3. We will probably get the main character instead of Isaac.
I'm sure he'll make some sort of cameo however.
 

n88

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Isaac is an unlikely pick. If SSB4 came out tomorrow, Isaac would be a shoe-in. But the new game does destroy his chances.
 

Clownbot

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That's what makes deciding characters tough. Until SSB4 is actually announced, and enough time is given, the most accurate roster as of now will probably change drastically come the time SSB4 is actually ready. :ohwell:
 

Pieman0920

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I wouldn't say his chances are completely destroyed. For one, Marth was in "first" before Roy when Melee came out, and I'm fairly sure that if Advanced Wars were to be represented, then it would be by Andy, rather than the protagonist of DoR. Still, his chances have been impaired, and his inclusion may very well be determined by his role in the new game....if he even has any.
 

UberMario

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Isaac is an unlikely pick. If SSB4 came out tomorrow, Isaac would be a shoe-in. But the new game does destroy his chances.
How do you figure? That's like saying that Diddy Kong won't be brought back because he hasn't been in the most recent platformers.
 

Starphoenix

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How do you figure? That's like saying that Diddy Kong won't be brought back because he hasn't been in the most recent platformers.
There is a difference between returning and appearing for the first time in SSB.
 

Neckbeard Torterra

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lolwut?

Why would Mewtwo get his own theme music in HG/SS?
All unique Encounters/Legendaries have their own personal theme. (Deoxys, Arceus, Giratina).
Sub legendaries share the same themes.
(Birds, Beasts, Golems, Darkrai/Shaymin/etc)

Mewtwo's is just a slight unnoticable remix of the Bird trio's theme.
Its just sad.
 

Spydr Enzo

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I think Isaac has pretty good chances, one of the best characters to represent a new series. Even though he is not in Golden Sun 3, he was in two of the games and will be more recognized by veterans of Golden Sun and Smash, the new cast of characters will be recognized better by younger players. Isaac was the one to start it, he was the original Golden Sun character, he is the most deserving character from the series.

If we get any new series (which is very possible), expect at least three (although I'm betting on two), and you can expect any of these franchises:

-Golden Sun
-Custom Robo
-Advanced Wars
-Sin & Punishment

I think I may have missed one, are there any more? And remember, these are the series that are most likely as of right now, it will definitely change in the future. I'm not saying these are the series guaranteed to be represented with a playable slot.
 

Starphoenix

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I think Isaac has pretty good chances, one of the best characters to represent a new series. Even though he is not in Golden Sun 3, he was in two of the games and will be more recognized by veterans of Golden Sun and Smash, the new cast of characters will be recognized better by younger players. Isaac was the one to start it, he was the original Golden Sun character, he is the most deserving character from the series.

If we get any new series (which is very possible), expect at least three (although I'm betting on two), and you can expect any of these franchises:

-Golden Sun
-Custom Robo
-Advanced Wars
-Sin & Punishment

I think I may have missed one, are there any more? And remember, these are the series that are most likely as of right now, it will definitely change in the future. I'm not saying these are the series guaranteed to be represented with a playable slot.
You are missing one, Legendary Starfy.If I had to place my money on which three would most likely receive a playable character, I would have to go with Legendary Starfy, Golden Sun, as well as Sin and Punishment. Custom Robo and Advance/Battalion Wars would most likely get a stage ala Animal Crossing.
 

Wizzerd

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Yes, veterans will undoubtedly recognize Isaac, but won't they recognize the most recent protagonist too? Besides, veterans are not a significant part of the Golden Sun fanbase. Many people who play GS3 will not have played the first two, more outdated games. Also, being the original character doesn't mean anything, we would have gotten Ninten, Ganon (as opposed to 'dorf), exclusively first generation Pokemon and many other things that I cannot remember right now. There are some characters who are the "original" character, like Mario and Marth, but that's because they remain important. Isaac is not, being not very recent.

As for new series:
-Densetsu no Starfy
-Animal Crossing (only if Sakurai changes his mind about the series LIKE HE SHOULD)
-Paper Mario
And I would remove Sin and Punishment from that list. It's kind of meh in terms of deservingness, having only two games and the first being Japan-only (though it made Virtual Console). If there was less demand for the roster Saki might have a chance, but... there are many series who deserve it over him, and when SSB4 will have 50 characters max there's little chance of a Sin and Punishment representative.
 

RockXero77

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1: better stage builder
2: No tripping
3: hitstun
4: More characters
5: no clones
6: being able to start playing from spots in replays
7: DRIZZT DO'URDEN!

one can dream, i guess, though i plan to make him with project SA.
 

Big-Cat

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Yes, veterans will undoubtedly recognize Isaac, but won't they recognize the most recent protagonist too? Besides, veterans are not a significant part of the Golden Sun fanbase. Many people who play GS3 will not have played the first two, more outdated games. Also, being the original character doesn't mean anything, we would have gotten Ninten, Ganon (as opposed to 'dorf), exclusively first generation Pokemon and many other things that I cannot remember right now. There are some characters who are the "original" character, like Mario and Marth, but that's because they remain important. Isaac is not, being not very recent.

As for new series:
-Densetsu no Starfy
-Animal Crossing (only if Sakurai changes his mind about the series LIKE HE SHOULD)
-Paper Mario
And I would remove Sin and Punishment from that list. It's kind of meh in terms of deservingness, having only two games and the first being Japan-only (though it made Virtual Console). If there was less demand for the roster Saki might have a chance, but... there are many series who deserve it over him, and when SSB4 will have 50 characters max there's little chance of a Sin and Punishment representative.
You do realize that Smash does not only focus on the recent stuff, right? Stop using the "recent" argument as it only closes off to many things. As mentioned before, that doesn't mean anything.

I assume, by veterans, you mean Smash veterans. In that case, Smash encompases its own fanbase and partially all the others. Naturally, not all of the Smash fanbase will know of GS, just like FE was back when Melee came out.

As to why they don't put in all the original characters in from all the series, there are some reasons why:

Ninten - Ness is basically an updated Ninten appearance wise.

Ganon - Ganondorf is better known due to OoT and Ganon hasn't been the villain as of late, but Ganondorf.

First gen Pokemon - Only some of the first gens (Pikachu, the starters, Jiggs, and Mewtwo) have enough popularity to get in.

How did Marth remain important since he was resurrected with Melee and he just had an English release of one of his games? Also, it seems that Isaac would get in since he's the most iconic and appeared in Brawl as an AT.

As for the new series, I can't be certain we'll get Paper Mario. Unlike Toon Link, he's not part of the main Mario series.

Also, do not use the "deserving" argument. According to Sakurai, there was a lot of requests for him to be in Brawl so we may very well see him, and don't necessarily count on the S+P character to be Isa.
 
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