[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Arcadenik]

It sounds more like you had a traumatic experience involving purple dragons more than it sounds like you simply don't think he's a viable character.

Quite the contrary. Ridley might work as a fighter but it does not mean he would be viable. That is why he is perfect as a boss. I don't hate Ridley. I just dislike his fanbase.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Does anyone else besides me want to see Star Man (from Pro Wrestling) appear in the next SSB? It'd be neat to hear the crowd chant "A winner is you!".

Also, Mach Rider. I've heard rumors that he is supposed to be Sakurai's favorite character (although he clearly hasn't gotten a chance to be playable yet).

Oh yes, and Goemon as a guest char.

I want a goemon character.
I even made fake brawl updates for them on my deviantart page. Here is one of the many.
http://drag0nscythe.deviantart.com/art/New-challenger-Goemon-76938509

Goemon isn't getting in. If I would make a list, I would say that there are eight third parties who stand any chance at all to get into a Smash game:

Megaman - Yes
Simon Belmont - No
Bomberman - Maybe
Ryu - No
Slime - Maybe
Chocobo - Maybe
Nightmare/Yoshimitsu/other Soul Calibur Character - Lol at the suggestion. Hell no.
Crono - No.

If Sqaure enix tosses in someone, it will be Geno. Hands down. Kanomi has Snake. Capcom has Megaman.

That is the most logical conclusions. I would love to see a goemon character, but it is unlikely because many have never heard of the series.

 

[Pieman0920]

Why would SE's character be Geno hand's down? He's not a good representative of the Mario series, and there are so many more desrving SE characters that its not even funny. While I can see that there could be debate that Geno would be included as a extra, I think its practically insane to think that Geno himself would be the real representative of Square Enix. =/

 

[drag0nscythe]

Why would SE's character be Geno hand's down? He's not a good representative of the Mario series, and there are so many more desrving SE characters that its not even funny. While I can see that there could be debate that Geno would be included as a extra, I think its practically insane to think that Geno himself would be the real representative of Square Enix. =/

He represents Nintendo's bond with Square if you want to go emotional.
He was also a keen choice from all the rumors about him being in brawl also.

This is not about representing the Mario series. It is about representing a company. While he is not optimal for reping square, he has alot going for him when it comes to the two companies.

As for other SE characters that deserve it.

Chocobo
Slime
Black Mage
Fighter

are the only ones truly iconic to the point of being worthy.

 

[Pieman0920]

He represents Nintendo's bond with Square if you want to go emotional.

You're not supposed to get emotional with these things though. Plus, given that SE and Nintendo have teamed up since then without Geno, any of the characters used in those recent team up games would be just as valid, in this regard. Plus, in the end, the technical team up characters don't really matter when all is said and done. Sega and Nintendo teamed up to make F-Zero GX, but I didn't see any GX characters in Brawl, did you?

He was also a keen choice from all the rumors about him being in brawl also.

Maybe so, but that doesn't make him the frontrunner to represent the company.

This is not about representing the Mario series. It is about representing a company. While he is not optimal for reping square, he has alot going for him when it comes to the two companies.

No he doesn't. He was in one game that was soley focused on Mario, rather than SE. It wasn't like Kindom Hearts or anything. Geno is a Mario character first and foremost, and thus would be a character filed under that series, thus making him a very poor choice for actually representing SE.

As for other SE characters that deserve it.

Chocobo
Slime
Black Mage
Fighter

are the only ones truly iconic to the point of being worthy.

And they are so much more iconic than Geno that its not even funny. Heck, there's no way you can even call Geno iconic, unless you're so hung up on SMRPG, which is well represented as it is, since it has three characters in the Smash series already, along with its lead.

 

[SmashChu]

I hate third party topics.........

 

[Starphoenix]

I hate third party topics.........

I happen to hate Ridley topics but somehow they keep coming up...

Anyways, only third party character who has the best chance is Megaman. I mean seriously, he has so much history with Nintendo versus Sonic (Sega being Nintendo's former rival and all) and Snake it isn't even funny. The only major question regarding Megaman is which version would he be. While chances are it would be Classic Megaman a part of me hopes it would be Megaman X. Simply due to the fact that we have never seen the X series in any kind of crossover before. Another problem would be how do you represent the other series effectively when only one is in? My thoughts are a music track, somewhat similar to this:

Classic Megaman Track
Classic Megaman Track
Classic Megaman Track
Classic Megaman Track
Classic Megaman Track
Classic Megaman Track
Classic Megaman Track
Classic Megaman Track
Megaman X Track (X Vs Zero in particular)
Megaman Battle Network Track (Nintendo could pull Starman's Theme from Network Transmission. Awesome soundtrack for a underraterd game.)
Megaman Legends (Flutter Vs The Gesselschaft)
Megaman Zero (Cannon Ball anyone?)

I would also like to see this done with Sega and Konami, except different games. Like for Konami, on Snakes stage give us one Castlevania track, Legend of Goemon track, something to that effect to better represent Konami and their other series. Similar with Sega; Monkeyball, Jet Set Radio, Samba De Amigo, etc... And if Square followed suit, we could see a Final Fantasy track, Dragon Quest track, Secret of Mana, Kingdom Hearts, Chrono Trigger, etc...

Problem with the idea though is that it might cause more licensing issues with individual companies sub-groups, so it might not be likely. Still, this is something I would like to see from third parties next time around.

 

[Big-Cat]

I was thinking about this, and I'm surprised that this has never been addressed:

There are hardly any anti-air attacks in the game. The only ones I can think of are PK Thunder, Snake's Up Smash, Bombs, Pit's Arrows, and Olimar's Pikmin Chain.

You think there would be some more since the game has such an emphasis on aerial combat. This could also mean that we could have two different types of fighters: Ground characters and air characters. Of course, each type would have elements on the other in order to keep things balanced.

Ground characters could be characters like Bowser and Ganondorf where they are strong on the ground, but weak in the air due to their speed, whereas Pit and Meta Knight would be the other way around.

What do you guys think?

 

[JigglyPunch]

No Sonic characters
No Metal Gear characters
Less StarFox characters
Better online play
More Melee stages

 

[n88]

Nightmare/Yoshimitsu/other Soul Calibur Character - Lol at the suggestion. Hell no.

Actually, this idea has a good bit of support, mainly only because Link was in SoulCalibur II. The thing that really hurts thsese characters is how much more adult their series is than Smash. (Although that didn't stop Snake) . Seeing Nightmare swear at the winner of the match on the Results screen could be bad for little kids. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a Soulcalibur character in, but they would suffer from uniqueness problems as well. (Most of them are sword-users). The only SC character with a lot of potential is Ivy, and if you don't understand why she wouldn't work in SMash, you've never seen a picture of her.

As for anti-air attacks, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more of those, but I doubt there will be much emphasis on it.

 

[Arcadenik]

Geno was in only one Mario game that was developed by Square Enix. This does not make Geno the best representative of the whole Square Enix company nor the whole Mario franchise.

Geno is not the mascot of Square Enix. Geno is not in any Final Fantasy games. Geno is not in any Dragon Quest games. Geno is not in any Kingdom Hearts games. Geno is not in any Chrono games. Geno is not in any Mana games. Geno is not in any Star Ocean games. Geno does not even have his own game series.

Geno is not a recurring Mario character. Geno is not in any Super Mario games. Geno is not in any Paper Mario games. Geno is not in any Mario Kart games. Geno is not in any Mario Tennis games. Geno is not in any Mario Golf games. Geno is not in any Mario Party games. Geno is not in any Mario Baseball games. Geno is not in any Mario Strikers games. Geno is not even important in the first Mario & Luigi game, let alone the whole series.

Geno is not a mascot at all. He is a footnote. Only the Geno fanboys think he's the most important character in all of Square Enix history and all of Mario history. Square Enix and Nintendo obviously don't think Geno is that important to play basketball with Mario and Final Fantasy characters in Mario Hoops 3-on-3. If both Square Enix and Nintendo don't think Geno is important enough to be playable in a Mario spin-off game with Mario and Final Fantasy characters, he's obviously not important enough to be playable in a Smash game.

 

[n88]

That post should be stickied separately from this thread.

 

[Wizzerd]

Simon Belmont - No
Ryu - No
Nightmare/Yoshimitsu/other Soul Calibur Character - Lol at the suggestion. Hell no.
Crono - No.

Simon Belmont is a somewhat obscure character, but Castlevania has a cult following that would be greatly pleased to see a character, and Castlevania also has a very long history with Nintendo (far longer than Metal Gear Solid).

Street Fighter has a connection with Nintendo and it would be very interesting to see a character from a traditional fighter in a Smash game.

Yeah, I know that it might sound ridiculous and Soul Calibur may not have a long connection with Nintendo, but, like Snake, a character from it may attract people who would have never bought the game otherwise. Though I'm not sure, I'm not familiar with Soul Calibur at all.

I put Crono at the bottom of the list because, while he's popular, Slime and Chocobo outclass him.

EDIT: Looked it up and saw that Soul Calibur has two Nintendo games. Never mind.

 

[n88]

Yeah, I know that it might sound ridiculous and Soul Calibur may not have a long connection with Nintendo, but, like Snake, a character from it may attract people who would have never bought the game otherwise. Though I'm not sure, I'm not familiar with Soul Calibur at all.

SC character would boost sales a bit. Not as much as Snake, though.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think Pac-Man would be a better representative of Namco than any Soul Calibur character. He's the #1 mascot of Namco just like Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man are the #1 mascots of Nintendo, Sega, and Capcom, respectively. Also, a lot more people (including casual gamers) recognize Pac-Man than any Soul Calibur character.

 

[n88]

I was under the impression that Pac-Man had kinda disappeared? At any rate, Sakurai is a retro gamer, so Pac-Man is possible. Definitely more recognizable (Rivaling Mario in that regard), but less fan demand. And a moveset could be tricky.

 

[Volkner582]

No Sonic characters
No Metal Gear characters
Less StarFox characters
Better online play
More Melee stages

What is wrong with you?

 

[Tacel]

What is wrong with you?

You deserve a medal.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Geno was in only one Mario game that was developed by Square Enix. This does not make Geno the best representative of the whole Square Enix company nor the whole Mario franchise.

Geno is not the mascot of Square Enix. Geno is not in any Final Fantasy games. Geno is not in any Dragon Quest games. Geno is not in any Kingdom Hearts games. Geno is not in any Chrono games. Geno is not in any Mana games. Geno is not in any Star Ocean games. Geno does not even have his own game series.

Geno is not a recurring Mario character. Geno is not in any Super Mario games. Geno is not in any Paper Mario games. Geno is not in any Mario Kart games. Geno is not in any Mario Tennis games. Geno is not in any Mario Golf games. Geno is not in any Mario Party games. Geno is not in any Mario Baseball games. Geno is not in any Mario Strikers games. Geno is not even important in the first Mario & Luigi game, let alone the whole series.

Geno is not a mascot at all. He is a footnote. Only the Geno fanboys think he's the most important character in all of Square Enix history and all of Mario history. Square Enix and Nintendo obviously don't think Geno is that important to play basketball with Mario and Final Fantasy characters in Mario Hoops 3-on-3. If both Square Enix and Nintendo don't think Geno is important enough to be playable in a Mario spin-off game with Mario and Final Fantasy characters, he's obviously not important enough to be playable in a Smash game.

Which makes it odd that he was so heavily pushed for brawl and that "as rumor goes" he was already there, but had to be removed. Call it what you want. Everytime a smash is announced, a group will stand up and shove Geno into the air. They are usually the most heard.

If Square throws in a rep, it will probably be him.
I seriously doubt square will ever get a rep.

 

[n88]

Geno has a very loud fanbase. That's the only thing going in his favor.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, Pac-Man got arms and legs like he always had since the 1980s. So, clearly he can punch and kick like he does in Pac-Man World games. As for his specials...

B: Pac-Bite - he bites opponents like Wario does

Side B: Pac-Roll (or Rev Roll) - he charges and then rolls along the ground to knock opponents out

Up B: Pac-Chain - from Pac-Man World games where Pac-Man flies across the sky eating a long chain of dots after he picks up the first red dot, you just guide the chain like Ness's up special and Pac-Man follows the path

Down B: B-Doing (or Butt Bounce) - Pac-Man does a ground pound and then bounces up, can be done repeatedly unlike Yoshi's, Kirby's, and Bowser's down specials.

Final Smash: Power Pellet - he eats a Power Pellet and becomes a giant pixelated 2-D Pac-Man and goes after the characters, characters who are eaten are instantly KO'd

Just a few moveset ideas for Pac-Man.

 

[n88]

I guess that works, although I'm firmly against anything called a Butt-Bounce being in SSB4.

 

[Arcadenik]

Then B-Doing it is.

As for Geno, where is the proof that Geno was in Brawl but then had to be removed due to legal reasons? The only characters we know for sure were in Brawl and then removed are Dr. Mario, Plusle & Minun, Mewtwo, Roy, Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, and "Toon Sheik". Geno wasn't even considered at all. The only thing Geno has going is his fanboys who desperately want Geno in Smash even though he does not deserve it at all in the most objective sense.

 

[Big-Cat]

The only thing that really suggests it is that one of the scrapped songs was title "Mushroom Forest." However, this may have been from PiT.

 

[JBRPG]

Street Fighter has a connection with Nintendo and it would be very interesting to see a character from a traditional fighter in a Smash game.

Yeah, I know that it might sound ridiculous and Soul Calibur may not have a long connection with Nintendo, but, like Snake, a character from it may attract people who would have never bought the game otherwise. Though I'm not sure, I'm not familiar with Soul Calibur at all.

Placing Fighting Game Characters from one franchise to the next with alienated combat systems would put off both fan base groups of Street Fighter/Soul Calibur and Smash Bros. So, No Ryu nor Ivy nor any other fighting game characters because there are no good connections between them, and besides there has been no large fan bases that want fighting characters in Smash Brothers Series. Smash Bros. is about using characters they star in other franchises that has little to no fighting game concentrations, but can be represented in some of them.

 

[Wizzerd]

Wait, was Toadwood Forest's Japanese name Mushroom Forest? That's the only forest I can remember in PiT.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Well, Pac-Man got arms and legs like he always had since the 1980s. So, clearly he can punch and kick like he does in Pac-Man World games. As for his specials...

B: Pac-Bite - he bites opponents like Wario does

Side B: Pac-Roll (or Rev Roll) - he charges and then rolls along the ground to knock opponents out

Up B: Pac-Chain - from Pac-Man World games where Pac-Man flies across the sky eating a long chain of dots after he picks up the first red dot, you just guide the chain like Ness's up special and Pac-Man follows the path

Down B: B-Doing (or Butt Bounce) - Pac-Man does a ground pound and then bounces up, can be done repeatedly unlike Yoshi's, Kirby's, and Bowser's down specials.

Final Smash: Power Pellet - he eats a Power Pellet and becomes a giant pixelated 2-D Pac-Man and goes after the characters, characters who are eaten are instantly KO'd

Just a few moveset ideas for Pac-Man.

Honestly, the addition of the anthromorphic Pac-Man would be a bad, bad idea. I find it more likely that he'll get a retro stage, because, as we've seen, Sakurai loves those (75 M, Mario Bros, Flat Zone I and II). As a character, the big smiley-faced Pac-Man doesn't really have retro appeal; the only one with that would be the 2D, simplistic circle that goes wacka-wacka-wacka.

The 3D Pac-Man calls to mind bad games and worse spin-offs. What would be next, Mrs Pac-Man as an AT?

Then B-Doing it is.

As for Geno, where is the proof that Geno was in Brawl but then had to be removed due to legal reasons? The only characters we know for sure were in Brawl and then removed are Dr. Mario, Plusle & Minun, Mewtwo, Roy, Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, and "Toon Sheik". Geno wasn't even considered at all. The only thing Geno has going is his fanboys who desperately want Geno in Smash even though he does not deserve it at all in the most objective sense.

You're probably right. If fanbase were as important as people make it out to be, Ridley and Krystal should have made it in easily. Instead Diddy did, and Lucas, and Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Big-Cat]

Placing Fighting Game Characters from one franchise to the next with alienated combat systems would put off both fan base groups of Street Fighter/Soul Calibur and Smash Bros. So, No Ryu nor Ivy nor any other fighting game characters because there are no good connections between them, and besides there has been no large fan bases that want fighting characters in Smash Brothers Series. Smash Bros. is about using characters they star in other franchises that has little to no fighting game concentrations, but can be represented in some of them.

So I suppose Little Mac can't get in since he's in a boxing game, right? Saying fighting game characters can't get in because they're already in a fighting game is a dumb argument. The gameplay system may be different, but I doubt that fans of various Nintendo characters don't have a hard time adjusting to how their characters are played. Besides, Ryu may be the one who can be transitioned into Smash easily along with other Street Fighter characters. After all, his specials influenced Mario's.

Here's a simple moveset for him:

B: Hadoken

Side B: Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku

Up B: Shoryuken

Down B: Red Hadoken

The SF series also has aerial attacks and whatnot. It wouldn't take a whole lot of brainstorming to put this guy or any other SF character (except maybe Balrog, Guile, and C. Viper) since all the attacks have already been made up. You would have a harder time with Soul Calibur and Tekken characters.

 

[n88]

Actually, I think Nightmare would be pretty easy to do, but I get what you're saying. The hard part for SC (and other fighting game) characters is the specials. The hardest of these is usually the Up-SPecial. Non-******** recoveries can be tricky for these guys.

 

[Wizzerd]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5291808&postcount=2862

There's a Make Your Move 3.0 Nightmare by MasterWarlord. It's somewhat overly creative, and it's outdated, but it works.

 

[n88]

Yeah, I knew MW made a Nightmare set, but I didn't count that because it was for MYM. The only MYM moveset that would ever make it into Smash is Clownbot's Generic Character.

 

[Volkner582]

Geno has a very loud fanbase. That's the only thing going in his favor.

Yes, a very loud and persuasive fanbase. Anyway, they aren't Geno's only advantage. Think about his potential moveset.

 

[Wizzerd]

Moveset potential doesn't make a secondary character from one outdated, overrated game that is third party deserving. Also remember that Toon Link had loads of moveset potential but became the closest thing to a clone there is in Brawl.

 

[Clownbot]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5291808&postcount=2862

There's a Make Your Move 3.0 Nightmare by MasterWarlord. It's somewhat overly creative, and it's outdated, but it works.

SC in Smash? Ehhhh...

Spoiler

Also, did you change your avatar twice recently? 0_o

Yeah, I knew MW made a Nightmare set, but I didn't count that because it was for MYM. The only MYM moveset that would ever make it into Smash is Clownbot's Generic Character.

This post makes me joyous and upset at the same time.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

He represents Nintendo's bond with Square if you want to go emotional.
He was also a keen choice from all the rumors about him being in brawl also.

This is not about representing the Mario series. It is about representing a company. While he is not optimal for reping square, he has alot going for him when it comes to the two companies.

As for other SE characters that deserve it.

Chocobo
Slime
Black Mage
Fighter

are the only ones truly iconic to the point of being worthy.

Actually, Black Mage would have a chance in getting in. He appeared in Mario Hoops 3 on 3.

 

[Wizzerd]

SC in Smash? Ehhhh...

Spoiler

Also, did you change your avatar twice recently? 0_o

I put it on my list because SC characters *are* an option. They could attract people who would never have bought a Smash game otherwise, but Soul Calibur has a minimal history with Nintendo, so it's VERY iffy. It could happen in SSB5, when Smash might need to be more dependant on third parties, but there's no real chance of them in SSB4.

Spoiler

I realized that nobody would take me seriously with a Tingle avatar- so I made it a Pinkle avatar. ;P

 

[Arcadenik]

Cactuar, Moogle, Fighter, and White Mage were in Mario Hoops 3-on-3, too, not just Black Mage. Either way, Geno is not in it. Nintendo and Square Enix obviously don't think Geno is valuable as an advertisement for a Mario/Final Fantasy crossover spin-off game. Geno is not an ideal choice for marketing both Final Fantasy games and Mario games in Smash.

 

[Pieman0920]

Incidently, I'd also like to point out Itadaki Street DS, which was a Japan only cross over between the two series, this time with a focus on Dragon Quest and Super Mario Bros. (See? D and S) In any case, Geno was nowhere to be found in that game, though music from SMRPG did make it in, showing again that despite the fact that SMRPG could get some type of representation, Geno may not be part of that. (Its not like he's the main character or anything)

 

[JBRPG]

So I suppose Little Mac can't get in since he's in a boxing game, right? Saying fighting game characters can't get in because they're already in a fighting game is a dumb argument. The gameplay system may be different, but I doubt that fans of various Nintendo characters don't have a hard time adjusting to how their characters are played. Besides, Ryu may be the one who can be transitioned into Smash easily along with other Street Fighter characters. After all, his specials influenced Mario's.

Here's a simple moveset for him:

B: Hadoken

Side B: Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku

Up B: Shoryuken

Down B: Red Hadoken

The SF series also has aerial attacks and whatnot. It wouldn't take a whole lot of brainstorming to put this guy or any other SF character (except maybe Balrog, Guile, and C. Viper) since all the attacks have already been made up. You would have a harder time with Soul Calibur and Tekken characters.

I am not taking about simple 1-1 fighting games that are simple, I am talking about games with some complexities, the Franchises like Soul Caliber, King of Fighters, Street Fighter, and Tekken. It would be very difficult to properly execute the Smash Bros. control system that will be inputted into the characters since they mostly concentrate on player combat system, not on battlefield-like environments.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Here's an idea for the third FE rep for Smash 4: Sothe!

Now let me explain why I picked Sothe: He is no sword user, is a thief, is a great fighter, has green hair and not blue hair, and he could be one of the sexually-oriented male fighters in the game because of his outfit.

Does anybody have any opinions?

Also, to the idea of putting in SC and Tekken fighters in SSB4: NO! I would possibly be punching myself in the face a few times hard if those stupid characters get in.