[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Mario the Jumpman]

I used to want Krystal playable in Smash 4 badly, but I pretty much lost all interest in her. She shouldn't be playable because most of her fans only like her because they consider her "hot." Krystal could be an Assist Trophy character, however.

Falco is now my favorite space animal. He should be decloned just a little more. I love his new reflector move.

 

[n88]

I don't think Jigglypuff will be cut either. I'm just saying that no-one thought Mewtwo would get cut. The mind of Sakurai is difficult to understand.

Could you provide a source for the claims about the Japanese polls? I would like to see those.

Anyway, Mewtwo was a veteran. He wasn't in the original game, but when listing potential characters for a new game, you include the characters from the previous. Ike, Diddy, Lucas, and the rest of the Newcomers will be considered veterans in SSB4.

That fourth point is pretty tricky. I'm gonna guess.................................................................................China? [Sarcasm]

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not sure that Sakurai never having heard of her helps her chances. I understand what you mean, but I don't think it really helps her. She might get in as a fourth SF character, but I doubt that she'ss replace Wolf.

What I meant by Sakurai never hearing of her is the reason why she wasn't put in. Assuming that the polls were made after the roster, this would make sense. A lot of people thought she was a shoo-in for Brawl, but that wasn't the case.

Anyway, I'm not sure if we'll get a SF character just because it seems like much. At the very least, the Starfox roster should be more diversified in its movesets. It's sad to see that all three characters have similar specials and final smashes. It's like they're the shotos of Smash. That's why I want Krystal in instead of Wolf.

Could you provide a source for the claims about the Japanese polls? I would like to see those.

I wish I could. I have tried searching for them on this board, but alas, no luck. however, I do remember distinctly about reading that bit on Krystal.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Fox, Falco, and Wolf are actually different from each other. Falco could use a decloning, however. I said that already. And only ONE of them should use the Landmaster for their FS, and it should be Fox. Falco should use his Arwing and Wolf should use a very powerful laser cannon.

And you guys might have expected this: Can we please keep Falco? Pretty please?

 

[n88]

Wolf and Falco should get new FS's and maybe Wolf could get a couple new specials. I'd be happy with that. Krystal would probably get an un-cloned moveset, but Wolf has a lot of support, especially since he already made it into Brawl.

 

[UberMario]

^^Agreed.

If Pichu could be decloned (very easy to do), would you want him back in SSB4?

I could show my Pichu, Pikachu, and Raichu movesets if anyone wants to see it.

 

[n88]

No, Pichu can stay out of my Smash Bros. Maybe as an alt costume for Pikachu, but otherwise, NO.

 

[UberMario]

Why so much hate for Pichu?

 

[n88]

Well, there will most likely be five Pokemon characters in SSB4:

1) Pikachu (Shoo-in)
2) Pokemon Trainer (Fan Favorite)
3) Jigglypuff (One of the original 12. However, she's one of the only two expendible members of the original 12.)
4) Next-Gen Pokemon (Pokemon Company likes advertising)

The fifth (and possible sixth) spot is up in the air. Candidates include a second Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, Lucario, and another Next-Gen Pokemon (And, if you're MasterWarlord, Kecleon).

Pichu doesn't compete with those guys.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Well, there will most likely be five Pokemon characters in SSB4:

1) Pikachu (Shoo-in)
2) Pokemon Trainer (Fan Favorite)
3) Jigglypuff (One of the original 12. However, she's one of the only two expendible members of the original 12.)
4) Next-Gen Pokemon (Pokemon Company likes advertising)

The fifth (and possible sixth) spot is up in the air. Candidates include a second Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, Lucario, and another Next-Gen Pokemon (And, if you're MasterWarlord, Kecleon).

Pichu doesn't compete with those guys.

Uh. Pichu is having a small revival right now.
I would like to see him again. Hell, the perfect pokemon list would be

Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer -> Ivy, Squ, Char
Next-gen
Mewtwo
Lucario
Leaf -> Jiggs, Pichu, Gardivour

 

[Wizzerd]

What I meant by Sakurai never hearing of her is the reason why she wasn't put in. Assuming that the polls were made after the roster, this would make sense. A lot of people thought she was a shoo-in for Brawl, but that wasn't the case.

Anyway, I'm not sure if we'll get a SF character just because it seems like much. At the very least, the Starfox roster should be more diversified in its movesets. It's sad to see that all three characters have similar specials and final smashes. It's like they're the shotos of Smash. That's why I want Krystal in instead of Wolf.

If he's unfamiliar with Krystal, than it seems that her chance is slimmer. Sakurai seems to factor in a good bit of personal bias into the roster, such as adding Lucas and a whole column of retro characters, and perhaps he wouldn't add a character he isn't familiar with... though this is assuming that Sakurai is familiar with the entirety of the roster.

And the fact that all of the SF characters are semi-clones is because of Sakurai's uncreativity and laziness, not because the characters who are in inherently are clones/semiclones. Krystal can use her long, firm staff as she wants

Spoiler

interpret that how you will

, but it doesn't change the fact that Sakurai has shown little interest in giving unique movesets to SF characters and Krystal would have a high chance of being in if she got in.

The fifth (and possible sixth) spot is up in the air. Candidates include a second Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, Lucario, and another Next-Gen Pokemon (And, if you're MasterWarlord, Kecleon).

It'll be Lucario, *possibly* Mewtwo but that's a narrow chance. And MasterWarlord was joking about Kecleon... >.>

Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer -> Ivy, Squ, Char
Next-gen
Mewtwo
Lucario
Leaf -> Jiggs, Pichu, Gardivour

No, it would be:
-Pikachu
-Pokemon Trainer
-Lucario
-Jigglypuff
-Fifth Gen Pokemon
Mewtwo is cool and all and he most certainly should not have been cut for Brawl, but he realistically has little chance of returning. Out of the six viable Pokemon, Mewtwo is the weakest link- he's a "flavor-of-the-month" Pokemon like Lucario, but being less recent than Lucario and repping the over-repped first generation, he has the least priority out of the Pokemans. If Pokemon gets six reps than it will have more reps than Mario no matter how you look at it with Jr. being the only candidate (Paper Mario most likely having his own series), which is wrong on many levels. Mewtwo isn't coming back.

Jigglypuff doesn't deserve to be in over many other Pokemon anymore, but she realistically is going to return due to being O12. It would greatly disappoint many people to see a character who has been in since 64 cut, especially since she's at least somewhat popular in Japan.

Spoiler

As a proud main of the balloon type, I think I have the authority to say that the technical term is Jiggles...

 

[Big-Cat]

How is Mewtwo a flavor-of-the-month Pokemon? The guy has been consistently popular, had two movies, was put in Smash instead of a second gen (Pichu doesn't count), he was indeed planned for Brawl, and there was a massive backlash for his exclusion.

I would say Lucario is more flavor-of-the-month than Mewtwo.

 

[Siobud]

Chars:

Funky Kong (can't think of a move list but hope hes in the next one anyway)

Waluigi:

B-Wind Up Bomb:
Wind up bomb that walks around untill it hits somthing (obviously not as strong as a item bomb omb). Longer you hold b the longer he winds it up and the farther it walks.

Down B-Cheat Teleport:
Waluigi walks slightly vertically along the stage so he can't get hit. he can jump walk around and do anything he can do normally but he can't be hit. this only lasts for a few seconds and can't be done imedeitly agian after.

Side B- Can't think of one

Up B- Extendo hand:
Waluigi takes out a extenable hand that shoots up. If it directally hits some one, it grabs the person and takes them on it's way down. It can be a tether recovery.

Side Smash- Kicks
Up Smash- Punches upward. Kinda like the way he hits a dice block in Mario Party.
Down Smash- If you haven't played Mario Golf then you probably wont understand this. When you are selecting your char in Mario Golf for the GCN, Waluigi does some weird dance where he flails his legs. If that can be transfered into a move thatwould be cool.

Final Smash- Copy Cat
When you hit b you get 20 seconds to chose some one you are fighting. The person you pick is whos final smash you do, except Waluigi-fied.


Balloon Fighter:

B-Balloon:
Blows a ballon to add to his 3 balloons he can have. He can have infinent jumps with 3 balloons but the ballons pop if used too much, and if hit or jumped on. If you hold the b button down the more he blows it up. If you blow it up too much it will pop and BF takes damage.

Side B- Dart Shooter:
Blows through a dart shooter. Best to pop other BFs balloons.

Up B- Rise Up:
Insead of consistantly jumping to slowly rise, holding up b makes him flap his arms repeatedly to rise faster.

Down B- Pop balloon:
Pop one of your balloons. If someone is close enough the pop hits others.
(Balloon Fighters smashes can be used in mid air if he has all 3 balloons)
Smash Side- Charges Forward
Smash up-Twirls around and hits people. If in mid air he twirls upward
Down Smash-Jumps and and stomps on the ground. If in air he drops downward fast.


Deoxys (Can't think of movelist)

Bowser Jr:

B- Flame Burst:
Bowser Jr tries to do a flamethrower like his dear old dad but it only comes out as a small burst of fire. Longer you hold it the bigger the burst is.

B Side: Paint Swipe.
Swipes his paint brush. If it hits someone they get slower for a short period of time and they trip.

Up B: I can't think of one

Down B: Can't think of one.

Can't think of Smashes

Final Smash: Shadow Mario
Turns into Shadow Mario. Same move set as mario but side b is same as Bowser Jr. He is faster and stronger.


Stages

Inside the Castle:
The main room in the N64 Princess castle.

Updated WarioWare:
Newer look to the stage and newer Minigames

Boo's Manshion:
Not quite sure what it could look like but Boo's could be flying around attacking fighters


Returning Stages:
Delfino Island
PictoChat
SkyWorld


Random Ideas: Double Final Smashes.
If 2 ppl on the same team realte to each other (ex: in the same game, partner ect) they can have a double Final smash where they combine there final smashes. When one of the members gets a final smash, a star will appear above both members. This means when the person uses the final smash they do a double final smash. If they don't have a star when the person uses the final smash only he has the final smash.

 

[Wizzerd]

It may have been an overstatement to call him flavor-of-the-month but honestly he's steadily losing popularity. His last movie was nine years ago, and honestly he's just another Pokemon now. He still has some popularity, but by SSB4 there will most likely be a new generation Pokemon who overshadows him, and most people buying SSB4 will probably not have even watched his movies or not know who he is (we can expect SSB4, if ever, in 2012 at the very earliest) since children are actually a big part of the Smash audience, and quite honestly even those who did will probably be resigned to the fact that he's gone already. It's also to early to call whether Lucario is flavor-of-the-month or not.

 

[drag0nscythe]

No, it would be:
-Pikachu
-Pokemon Trainer
-Lucario
-Jigglypuff
-Fifth Gen Pokemon
Mewtwo is cool and all and he most certainly should not have been cut for Brawl, but he realistically has little chance of returning. Out of the six viable Pokemon, Mewtwo is the weakest link- he's a "flavor-of-the-month" Pokemon like Lucario, but being less recent than Lucario and repping the over-repped first generation, he has the least priority out of the Pokemans. If Pokemon gets six reps than it will have more reps than Mario no matter how you look at it with Jr. being the only candidate (Paper Mario most likely having his own series), which is wrong on many levels. Mewtwo isn't coming back.

Jigglypuff doesn't deserve to be in over many other Pokemon anymore, but she realistically is going to return due to being O12. It would greatly disappoint many people to see a character who has been in since 64 cut, especially since she's at least somewhat popular in Japan.

Spoiler

As a proud main of the balloon type, I think I have the authority to say that the technical term is Jiggles...

If this is the case, then you need to cut Lucario also. He is more flavor of the month then Mewtwo. As for Jiggs, she would work fine in a trainer. Her importance has gone the way side anyway. She was not significant enough to even be a part of SSE.

Shove her in a trainer. At least she is still there.

oh, and over shadowing the mario series in reps is bull. It will happen. Cannot use that as a crutch. Paper Mario is also a no go. It is just mario, in a paper form.

Just what we need.

 

[Clownbot]

If this is the case, then you need to cut Lucario also. He is more flavor of the month then Mewtwo. As for Jiggs, she would work fine in a trainer. Her importance has gone the way side anyway. She was not significant enough to even be a part of SSE.

Shove her in a trainer. At least she is still there.

Single Pokemon Trainer or bust. Either keep Jigglypuff as a single character or cut her altogether.

I mean, having two Pokemon Trainers REALLY unbalances the roster.

oh, and over shadowing the mario series in reps is bull. It will happen. Cannot use that as a crutch. Paper Mario is also a no go. It is just mario, in a paper form.

Just what we need.

Lol, SMB is THE Nintendo franchise. It was somewhat tolerable in Brawl because their CSS blocks were equal, but a series having more than Mario would, again, unbalance the roster.

Also, @your Paper Mario argument, Dr. Mario and Young Link say hello.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think we need to look at likelihood of characters in ways most of us haven't done so far. I think we should look at it like this:

The Golden 5 (Rules straight from Sakurai):
1. The character is a videogame character and has been on a Nintendo system.
2. The character can bring something new to the table (mostly applies to main characters).
3. Should they be fighting (May not apply to all characters aka Animal Crossing)?
4. The character is someone people may be willing to play.
5. Contributes to the balance of game characters per series.

Here are some of my rules:

1. Popularity is not measured solely from Japan, but the rest of the world. The exception is any Japan-exclusive character.
2. Do not solely look at adding a character from a series based on a reps perspective. If a character can be applied to at least three of the Golden Rules, then this rule is applied.
3. Do not bring up sales arguments. It has been proven with the Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Ness, and Lucas that having Sakurai's (or the developer at the time) interest can eliminate all the rules except Golden Rule 1.
4. Do not discuss whether a character is a has-been or not. Status of a character doesn't seem to matter much as some characters have been brought back from the dead.
5. Do not make placeholders in rosters such as New FE Lord. We may not have a new character from a certain series by SSB4 is made.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Single Pokemon Trainer or bust. Either keep Jigglypuff as a single character or cut her altogether.

I mean, having two Pokemon Trainers REALLY unbalances the roster.

Also, @your Paper Mario argument, Dr. Mario and Young Link say hello.

Funny how both of them were clones.

 

[Starphoenix]

Mewtwo is cool and all and he most certainly should not have been cut for Brawl, but he realistically has little chance of returning. Out of the six viable Pokemon, Mewtwo is the weakest link- he's a "flavor-of-the-month" Pokemon like Lucario, but being less recent than Lucario and repping the over-repped first generation, he has the least priority out of the Pokemans. If Pokemon gets six reps than it will have more reps than Mario no matter how you look at it with Jr. being the only candidate (Paper Mario most likely having his own series), which is wrong on many levels. Mewtwo isn't coming back.

He does or he doesn't, we do not really know why Mewtwo was canned in the first place, the best possible reason being time. I do not think we will truly know anything about Mewtwo until Sakurai does another journal before SSB4 like with Melee and Brawl (you know some random person is going to ask him this question).

Mewtwo flavor of the month? Um no, just no. First off, after all this time Mewtwo is still popular regardless of how long it has been since Red/Blue. He is one of the very first legendary Pokémon, and is the only Pokémon that is regarded as the "villain" of the Pokémon series. I am also so sick and tired of hearing that the first generation cannot receive any more representation due to being overrepresented.

I think we need to look at likelihood of characters in ways most of us haven't done so far. I think we should look at it like this:

The Golden 5 (Rules straight from Sakurai):
1. The character is a videogame character and has been on a Nintendo system.
2. The character can bring something new to the table (mostly applies to main characters).
3. Should they be fighting (May not apply to all characters aka Animal Crossing)?
4. The character is someone people may be willing to play.
5. Contributes to the balance of game characters per series.

Here are some of my rules:

1. Popularity is not measured solely from Japan, but the rest of the world. The exception is any Japan-exclusive character.
2. Do not solely look at adding a character from a series based on a reps perspective. If a character can be applied to at least three of the Golden Rules, then this rule is applied.
3. Do not bring up sales arguments. It has been proven with the Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Ness, and Lucas that having Sakurai's (or the developer at the time) interest can eliminate all the rules except Golden Rule 1.
4. Do not discuss whether a character is a has-been or not. Status of a character doesn't seem to matter much as some characters have been brought back from the dead.
5. Do not make placeholders in rosters such as New FE Lord. We may not have a new character from a certain series by SSB4 is made.

Surprised you didn't make any rules regarding third party characters.

 

[Pieman0920]

In regards to Mewtwo, as I've said before, its probable that he was cut due to a need for balancing the roster. Now while the Pokemon series has 6 movesets, it only has four spots, and Mewtwo returning would have meant that the Pokemon series would have gotten 5, more so than Zelda, or Mario. In addition, Mewtwo was cut in favor of Jigglypuff, for what we can only assume is the fact that Jiggs was in the original, or because barely anyone liked him in Melee. In truth, the one character that Mewtwo got cut for wasn't Lucario, but rather the Pokemon Trainer, since Lucario was needed to represent the later games, while PT did not.

That being said, for the next game, I do think that Lucario will stay, while Mewtwo will stay out. Lucario isn't whould still be the face of the 4th gen, which is needed, because if he really is cut, then we'd have probably three generations out of 5 to 6 not represented with a character. Mewtwo on the other hand shoudn't get back in due to the overwhelming amount of generation 1 Pokemon.

 

[EmuKiller]

I got like... 6 works for everyone.

Super Smash Bros: Nintendo vs Capcom

'nough said.

 

[FOXYB]

i have been waiting for megaman for quite some time now

 

[SKnickers03]

I got like... 6 works for everyone.

Super Smash Bros: Nintendo vs Capcom

'nough said.

maybe not necessarily vs. capcom...but ive been thinking whether the smash series could function with VS. mechanics (each player chooses two characters than can be switched in and out any point during the match). the more i consider it, the more i think it could be done. if they wanted to take smash to a whole new level i think that would be a great way to do so. anyone think this could/could not work??

in terms of characters....ive already decided that i would main goomba if they included him. his Usmash should be a megachomp. similar to warios neutral b, but with goombas head lifted upward and its function as a smash attack rather than a grab. and his forward special could be that adorable surprise tackle he does in galaxy. thats all ive got for the moveset so far. lets all vote for goomba

 

[Cyan_Blau]

Press is poison for the development!!!

"that's what they said about mewtwo"

1.mewtwo wasn't a veteran.
2. On almost every Japan fav pokemon poll, mewtwo is not as high as jigglypuff.
3.Just restating that Jigglypuff is 2nd most popular pokemon in japan (just behind pikachu)
4.Guess where this game is developed. Just guess. seriously.

1. Mewtwo is almost old school, so nobody can remember how much passion in this role was!
2. Jigglypuff is one of my fave Characters in SSB because of it's secret attack (down B) (It was secret in SSB 64).
3. You underline my reason 2 o.O
4. I know that it's in Japan! - But people has to KNOW that a developer has to go outside of any population, he has to find the real best role to make this game epic and that also can be Deoxys, it only needs a psycho pokémon! - Lucarion is Fight/Steel only his Aura makes him psycho...

But I don't think that neither Lucario nor Deoxys would get any place in SSB4, if the developer follow any population.

Another reason is that art almost don't follow any popuöation. Real art workers (like developers) follow their own rules, interests & visions, if anyone gives them inspiration or not. But non of every inspiration has to come from Japan, it also can be from countries like ... Germany. If you don't believe me then ask Sakurai or Nintendo Germany who gave hin inspirations to create Taboo!

It's totally outside of any expectations or hopes people had for Dairantou Smash Bros. X how Masahiro Sakurai made off this game. There where stuffs totally new created like an own story for this game and own created enemies etc. Nobody really could imagine about the true finish of the game, until all parts of its web site updates where complete and the game was released.

If he can, and a real developer (art worker) can, he also can give Mewtwo an epic unforgettable role in this game as he also could do with Deoxys, so we all have to wait up until the game is planned and then until it's definitely released.

And I hope he won't say anything about this game, because he has a right to do his own work and he also has the right to completely finish his work! - And then, maybe then, if the game is in the highly last finish he or anyone else in that **** marmoreal building site can advertise this game!


(AX)

 

[n88]

In regards to Mewtwo, as I've said before, its probable that he was cut due to a need for balancing the roster. Now while the Pokemon series has 6 movesets, it only has four spots, and Mewtwo returning would have meant that the Pokemon series would have gotten 5, more so than Zelda, or Mario. In addition, Mewtwo was cut in favor of Jigglypuff, for what we can only assume is the fact that Jiggs was in the original, or because barely anyone liked him in Melee. In truth, the one character that Mewtwo got cut for wasn't Lucario, but rather the Pokemon Trainer, since Lucario was needed to represent the later games, while PT did not.

Mewtwo was not replaced by any specific character. Jiggly, PT, Lucario, and Sonic teamed up to keep him out.

@Wizzerd

I know MW was joking about Kecleon, but he's one of the only other Pokemon to even get a mention in this thread, so I threw him in there.

 

[Big-Cat]

Surprised you didn't make any rules regarding third party characters.

I only made one about third party characters and that's the first Golden Rule. It has never been said whether or not there can be multiple third party characters per company or not. It seems to be an agreement amongst most of us.

 

[Wizzerd]

If this is the case, then you need to cut Lucario also. He is more flavor of the month then Mewtwo. As for Jiggs, she would work fine in a trainer. Her importance has gone the way side anyway. She was not significant enough to even be a part of SSE.

We can't really say that Lucario is flavor-of-the-month yet, but the fact is that by SSB4 Mewtwo will largely be forgotten. If it comes out in 2012, which is a liberal estimate, than you would have to be around 15 to have seen the Pokemon movie at age 3, which means not many people will remember him. It's pretty much taken for granted now that Mewtwo is gone, whereas people still expect Lucario (and I remind you that he's actually tourney-viable, unlike Mewtwo.) Besides, one who was cut once is unlikely to be added again.

Jigg

Spoiler

le

s is effectively a Smash character now, part of the wallpaper. She's pretty much expected now, and her significance is not completely dead.

Shove her in a trainer. At least she is still there.

Yes, but in a far less significant spot.

oh, and over shadowing the mario series in reps is bull. It will happen. Cannot use that as a crutch. Paper Mario is also a no go. It is just mario, in a paper form.

Why is it bull? Sakurai has shown to us over and over again how he wants to represent the Mario series the most- not just in the playable roster, but in the trophies, the items and all of that, and he realistically wouldn't go back on his own opinion. Paper Mario isn't a no go because he is Mario, as he has abilities of his own and a highly successful series of RPGs which has sold a million+ for every game. It also isn't really proven that Paper Mario is Mario, as it seems that he belongs to an entirely different paper universe.

 

[n88]

Don't use Mewtwo's suckishness in Melee as an excuse to not put him in. GaW, Kirby, and Pikachu sucked in Melee, too.

 

[Wizzerd]

His suckishness meant that less people used him.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

1. Popularity is not measured solely from Japan, but the rest of the world. The exception is any Japan-exclusive character.

Jiggs says hi.

 

[n88]

Suckishness doesn't always detract from popularity. Ike is one of the most popular mains in Brawl (Outside of the competitive community)

I know about 9 people who play Smash a lot. 6 of them like Ike.

EDIT: And 9 of them liked Mewtwo.

 

[UberMario]

Captain Falcon wants a word with you, Wizzerd.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Suckishness doesn't always detract from use. Ike is one of the most popular mains in Brawl (Outside of the competitive community)

WOW contradiction city.

Non-Competitive people don't realize Ike sucks lmao.

 

[n88]

The casuals I know think he sucks, but continue to play as him. I know he sucks, I continue to play as him.

 

[Wizzerd]

I'm abandoning this debate. This thread is full of Mewtwo fanboys. Hopefully in the fifth gen we can get a Pokemon with wings, horns, firebreath or something else bad*ss instead of symmetrical bumps on their head.

 

[UberMario]

I hope they revolutionize Jiggly's moveset, there are too many [competitively] useless attacks.

 

[n88]

I'm abandoning this debate. This thread is full of Mewtwo fanboys. Hopefully in the fifth gen we can get a Pokemon with wings, horns, firebreath or something else bad*ss instead of symmetrical bumps on their head.

Fine by me. The problem with this thread is that it seems like everything has already been discussed. The same ground is covered again and agiain and again, so I think I'm dropping out of the thread for now. I'll be back when new conversation starts. (And Wizzerd, the thread isn't full of Mewtwo fanboys. It's full of Mewtwo fanboy, which would be myself)

 

[Wizzerd]

I hope they revolutionize Jiggly's moveset, there are too many [competitively] useless attacks.

Exactly- Jigglypuff needs to be buffed with:

• More weight
• Melee level rest
• More power on aerials
• Find a way to make Sing usable- edgesinging is all it ever gets used

 

[UberMario]

Exactly- Jigglypuff needs to be buffed with:

• More weight
• Melee level rest
• More power on aerials
• Find a way to make Sing usable- edgesinging is all it ever gets used

1.No
2.Yes, or make it so that it heals 10%
3.Yes
4.Yes

Why add weight? It's the balloon pokemon, if it needs anything, it's more jumps.

 

[drag0nscythe]

We can't really say that Lucario is flavor-of-the-month yet, but the fact is that by SSB4 Mewtwo will largely be forgotten. If it comes out in 2012, which is a liberal estimate, than you would have to be around 15 to have seen the Pokemon movie at age 3, which means not many people will remember him.

He has lasted this long. His popularity is still massive even though his exposure dropped around the time of the second game. Even the Remakes did not play him up to much. He has still endured, and still will.

It's pretty much taken for granted now that Mewtwo is gone, whereas people still expect Lucario (and I remind you that he's actually tourney-viable, unlike Mewtwo.) Besides, one who was cut once is unlikely to be added again.

Uhh, one is cut will not come back. What is this based on? Any fact behind this? I guess Akuma and Chun li were never in SF3 then. They were cut.

Jigg

Spoiler

le

s is effectively a Smash character now, part of the wallpaper. She's pretty much expected now, and her significance is not completely dead.

One can be part of the wallpaper in a trainer.

Yes, but in a far less significant spot.

Which suits her popularity, Smash relevance, pokemon relevance, etc.

Why is it bull? Sakurai has shown to us over and over again how he wants to represent the Mario series the most- not just in the playable roster, but in the trophies, the items and all of that, and he realistically wouldn't go back on his own opinion.

Did he ever come out and say "I want to rep mario the most?"
The fact is that mario has the largest array of items, trophies, and iconic imagery out of all the represented series. The only thing it does not have is rep count. Many other series have more viable reps. Pokemon is one of them. One cannot just say "Mario is the max limit." when only the 4 mains should be the only ones playable with the mario logo.

Paper Mario isn't a no go because he is Mario, as he has abilities of his own

Mario got his hammer from Donkey King
Mario always jumps on people
Butt stomping is from the main mario games.
Bombs from mario 2.
The paper thing is a gimmick for the art style.

and a highly successful series of RPGs which has sold a million+ for every game. It also isn't really proven that Paper Mario is Mario, as it seems that he belongs to an entirely different paper universe.

He is mario.
If you want to go by success, then Dr. Mario was a just addition. We should have Party Mario, and Sports Mario while we are at it.

The fact is that Paper mario is mario. Nintendo sat down and said "Lets make SM:RPG for the N64. We cannot use that franchise exactly, so come up with something else." The paper thing was a graphical gimmick and then the rest followed from there.