[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Pieman0920]

Well if Spyder was right and there were only 45 character slots, the total number of PCs should be at least 50.

 

[Starphoenix]

Geno is obscure and very unworthy. Like others have said, better representatives for the Mario RPG subseries would be Paper Mario or Fawful.

Fawful huh, now that would be pretty cool. He has been in every Mario and Luigi game that has come out, not to mention it would be hilarious (with the right voice actor) if he started repeating some of his lines from the game. "Mustard of doom"!

But, I still think I want Paper Mario more.

In addition, there are probably better Square reps as well.

Just sayin'.

*coughSlimeorBlackMagecough*

 

[rockem7]

I think that Paper Mario or Bowser Jr. should be the new Mario reps. And for Square, if they put in a FF rep it should be the Black Mage. Too many people will be wanting Cloud. >.>

On another note, In SSB4, would any pre-existing characters stats be changed?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Geno is obscure and very unworthy. Like others have said, better representatives for the Mario RPG subseries would be Paper Mario or Fawful. Overall, I would say the best options for the fifth playable Mario character would be Paper Mario, Toad, and Bowser Jr. I would gladly elaborate on these if someone wanted me to.

Also, Sakurai NEVER said that he regretted adding the clones from Melee.

As I previously said, GDC 08 pretty much destroyed most of the notions that we held dear when it came to characters. One of the biggest ones was the idea of significance. It pains me to say this since I said the opposite so often before Brawl came out, but significance is probably one of the last things on Sakurai's mind (even though it shouldn't) when deciding characters. As I said, he pretty much has stated multiple times that what he mostly cares about is whether or not they can hold his interest and "bring something new to the table" which is why we're still staring at Jigglypuff and pretty much why characters like Pit, Mr. Game and Watch, Ness, and the Ice Climbers were added despite being obscure and the stars of games that pretty much sold crap compared to the likes of the big guys. For God's sake, the man added Dr. Mario in Melee simply because he liked his theme. The idea of who's "worthy" has pretty much been revealed to be something fabricated by the fans.

Although it may shake some of you to the very core, Sakurai isn't familar with every franchise and the amount of research he does on characters is minimal at best. He basically goes with characters who's movesets pretty much write themselves simply by playing the games for a short amount of time or people he can pretty much build from the ground up (like ROB). To put it simply, he likes characters that are well established or clean slates. He'll take artistic liberties (Ike is a example of this), granted, but usually stay true to the character. It should also be kept in mind that he really doesn't spend that much time on the characters either. Sakurai said at GDC 08 that, aside from Sonic, all the characters were decided and programmed into the game by the end of January 06, just about three months after development offically began. If you want to estimate how much time they spent on each character, it averages out to a little more than two days with about 1/3 of that time being spent on new characters. That's it... two days, a weekend; pretty much the amount of time that most people will spend making a texture hack.

In time, I've also come to realize that Sakurai is a lot like Miyamoto in respect that he does what he wants, and luckily enough, this usually lines up with what the fans want but, make no mistake, he usually thinks for himself. Anyways, about the clones in Melee, he said that they were added somewhat haphazardly because he figured that fans would be upset with the number they originally had which would have been 20 with only 8 new characters and 5 being in the starting roster.

Hmm... with this all being said, Toad's royally screwed and Bowser Jr may be in the same boat if he continues the trend of becoming less and less unique with each new canon game he's in. Paper Mario seems like someone that would interest Sakurai but, currently, there really isn't that much evidence for there being a strong interest but at least the prospect is still there. There is the danger of him classifying Paper Mario as "another Mario" as they are technically the same person too but it's hard to say if he'll have that additude. (But, then again, Toon Link and Link were made very similar despite the differences between them and actually being two different people...) I like the idea of Fawful too but at E3 06, one of the audience members shouted out Fawful when it was asked which characters would like to be seen in Brawl during a press conference following the first showing of the trailer and it was noted that Sakurai didn't know who that was. It was then said that one of the other reps there knew who he was and told him but, even then, Fawful didn't show up in Brawl as a cameo and, in fact, the Mario and Luigi games kind of got screwed in that regard despite being second party.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Last post on this subject and I'm done. I can't go anymore

Huh? If he's so well received over other content, then why is he not showing up, while other things are? If he really was popular enough to make it into Smash, he would have been playable in these games, or at the very least a cameo, but in the end he wasn't which makes me wonder how well received you think this guy is.

Compared to Mallow, Smithy, Booster, and so forth, Geno is the most well received. I cannot state that enough.

I'm not sure why he hasn't appeared in a recent title, but I'm positive it's not due to him not being popular enough, SMRPG content-wise.

Sakurai's journal is suspect at best, seeing as not everything was actually translated over for us. On top of that, even if you use the fact that five people mentioned him in their requests, that doesn't change the fact that it was only five people out of how many votes were shown.

Fair enough.

Using the basis that he has only shown up in one game isn't a valid argument against Geno, but everything that's added on top of it is what hurts him. In addition, basing that decisions go only through Sakurai's mind isn't a good thing to argue at this point, as we don't actually know who the director of Smash 4 will be, or even if the game will ever exist.

Fair enough.

Whatever the case, its pretty clear he goes for characters that have history, and represent their series well, which is something that Geno doesn't do.

Geno doesn't have history now?

Heck, saying Geno could possibly represent a series is faulty in itself, as he'd only represent a single game in a series with loads of others.

I said it before, but why can't Geno be the secondary face of the Mario RPGs. The RPGs themselves were born from two companies, Square and Nintendo. Like two sides of a single coin, Mario can represent the Nintendo half whilst Geno the other. He'd be like Luigi in terms of being second.

...What? Three reps matter because the game itself is represented well enough as it is. Maybe music could be thrown in, since none of that in the Smash series, but as far as characters are concerend, there's no need to add more, since it is well covered already.

This is subjective talk

There are people who think otherwise, made evident by supporters and the poll. Granted, what you said previously could very well be true, but still, the fact remains that he was a top contender there. One could say that the inclusion of Meta-Knight in SSBB represented the Kirby franchise well enough, yet, lo and behold, DDD is a playable character.

Its like saying that Marx should be added or something...if Marx was third party.

If the demand was there, then perhaps.

In addition, age is a factor, since the majority of games that are represented in Brawl were from the span inbetween SSBM and SSBB. Games that were not though were retro games from the NES days or earlier. Outside of music, there was really no SNES or N64 representation, and if the current trend continues, they'll be skipped over again, with the GC added with them.

I said before that I'm not a believer in trends, and I stand by that.

Don't even compare Sonic's demand to Geno's. It'll only make you look dumb.

How so?

Their situations are quite similar. If people demand him enough, who's to say Geno won't appear in SSB4 similarly to how Sonic is in SSBB?

In addition, their positions in their own franchises, amount of games, and the history they have are complete opposites of one another.

I'll give you Geno's current position in the franchise, but Geno has a history―he wouldn't exist otherwise. And "amount of games" is by no means a legitimate reason. I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.

Five kids from Japan, and two dozen or so people on the internet sure do influence a lot of games, don't they?

Sure do, seeing how most of the characters on Sakurai's Journal who have entries three and above are in SSBB.

And let's not pussyfoot around. Geno is popular as far as the Mario RPGs are concerned. You're basically saying, "Hey! Stop! Don't believe what you're seeing. He's actually not popular at all. It's all an illusion.. (echo)."

I sincerely mean no offense when I say this, but if you're that delusional, then there's not point in continuing this discussion.

What are you talking about? You're saying some other type of legal issue is what's bogging him down or something?

Yes.

In that case, then he is suffering from that. Seriously, how do you think he can get into a Smash Bros game, if he can't get into any of these new RPGs, aka the genre he's known for?

How can a character that appears in one game get into Smash Bros. when he doesn't appear in another?

People make the difference.

How were they good?

Geno (5 entries)

You can discredit that all you want, but it's there, and should be considered proof that his chances were good at best.

Face it, Geno never had a chance for Brawl, and unless his act gets straightend up, his chances are even worse for SSB4.

"Never?"

Again with the fallacious statements. I'm not sure why you're denying him the fact that he did indeed had a chance at making it into Brawl. He had a good shot before, and due to what Fatmanonice posted concerning the "backlist" theory, I say his chances are a bit better for SSB4.

The amount of characters are indeed less than before, but as time goes on, more and more characters are created, or expanded upon. That's not happening for Geno though, as his one game, which has already been represented, is just getting older and older.

Honestly, we just have to wait and see. There's nothing more I can say.

Actually, I believe his chances will be worse. First of all, he was never close to getting into the game, there were copyright issues between Nintedno and Square Enix that wouldn't allow it. Plus, Geno will be 5 to 6 years older by the time we see SSB4. Sure, hes old like retro characters, but they were classics, Geno is from a single SNES game that he wasn't even the star of.

I've explained why I think his chances would be a tad better than they were when Brawl was being developed. And Luigi never starred in his own game until Luigi's Mansion, yet he appeared in SSB as a playable character. That fact is beneficial for Geno.

There is Link, and there is Toon Link. Mario and Paper Mario are in the same boat, but Paper Mario can be given a unique moveset with the hammer and the spindash, etc.

I was never really a proponent for Paper Mario, but I see what you're saying. Although, I would think that Geno would be more unique given the fact that he isn't Mario.

Plus, Paper Mario has more games than Geno

Paper Mario and Geno are in the same series. Appearing in more than one game is fine, but this doesn't significantly diminish Geno's chance of appearing.

and his games are still being made.

Ice Climbers is no longer being made. How did they manage to appear in Melee?

Paper Mario still has low chances, and Geno would never get in before Paper Mario.

Says who?

And theres no way we're seeing two new Mario-RPG reps in SSB4.

True, there can only be one (HMW lol) or none.

Agreed on this. If the Mario-RPGs get represented at all, this should at least be there representation.

A million times yes! Goodness, that'd probably be like the best stage ever. Seriously.

Don't believe in trends? Well, start believin'.

I'd rather not, thank you. ;D

Upper 45+ is what we'll see almost guaranteed, but anymore than 50 just won't happen.

Nothing is guaranteed. That's not being very "realistic" as you put it.

SSB64: 12 +13 = Melee: 25 + 10 = Brawl: 35 + ???

The ??? could be anywhere from 8 to 13, maybe 14 if we're lucky. Don't over-estimate it. Remember what happened with Brawl.

There were a few factors which, I believe, added to us not seeing as many characters. Time-constraints being one of the major issues.

People seem to forget that Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu, and Dr. Mario were at one point planned to be in Brawl. Why aren't they in? I'm not sure.

Why would I? Because I'm different than everyone else here in that I like to look at things realistically. Before Brawl came out, I gave into the hype and I had myself convinced that there were going to be over 50 characters and what happened when Brawl came out? Extremely disappointed, Brawl is now one of my least played games (Melee is my most played). I expected too much.

You can be pessimistic if you want, but that doesn't mean you're being realistic. (I too play Melee more than Brawl. Haven't played it in months, actually. Just putting that out there. lol)

I'm not going to tell myself there are over 50 characters in the game when in reality, we'll be lucky to get over 43.

In your reality, perhaps, but that's not true for everyone. Sakurai (or whoever is developing SSB4) could very well be thinking otherwise. You never know.

And I do agree with the second statement.

I know I'm not under estimating it. I've seen this before at places like Nsider, where the hype was huge. People knew we would get around 50 characters in Brawl, but what did we get? Just over 30.

I think you need to accept the fact that you could be under-estimating it, just as I've accepted that I could very well be over-estimating it. That's thinking realistically.

Now the same is happening with SSB4. I'd say 50 AT MOST, but the chances of 50 are still extremely low. People like you are too prone to being so passionate about things that you nearly convince yourself it has to be true. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, just telling it how I see it.

Don't put me in the same group as others, please.

There are only a few things that I'm passionate about, but I'm never to the point where I'd convince myself that what I'm saying is fact. That's just not true. I'm not that concrete on the things I support.
---

And... done.

So, how about we discuss something other than Geno? As much as I like Geno, excessive talk about him is tiresome. Too much of anything is a bad thing, after all.

Let's discuss F-Zero, Metroid, and Yoshi for a few minutes. I hear that people are torn between Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow for the next F-Zero rep. Well, why not both? The F-Zero series hasn't had a new rep since SSB. Nothing but Falcon for the past three games. To even things out, should F-Zero get two reps?

The only hot-topic that I know of concerning Metroid is Ridley's inclusion. People here don't think he's too big to gain entry, right?

As for Yoshi, is anyone opposed to the inclusion of Baby Bros. as the second Yoshi's Island rep? I think it'd either be them or Kamek, but I'd much rather have the Baby Bros. What do you guys think?

 

[Clownbot]

Fawful huh, now that would be pretty cool. He has been in every Mario and Luigi game that has come out, not to mention it would be hilarious (with the right voice actor) if he started repeating some of his lines from the game. "Mustard of doom"!

But, I still think I want Paper Mario more.

I HAVE FURY!!!

Actually, I haven't played the Mario & Luigi games. It appears that Fawful has significance over Geno, but his popularity pales in comparison, so...

I guess Paper Mario is the most logical Mario RPG choice?

EDIT: @ScoobyCafe, I don't think F-Zero is significant enough to get two reps. At this point, I'm not even sure if two are necessary. Metroid DEFINITELY needs at least one more rep and the "Ridley's 2 big" argument is a really tired and absurd one. If Yoshi gets another rep (I sincerely doubt it will), it'll be the Baby Mario Bros. (whose inclusion might depend on that of Paper Mario, being that two extra Marios is a little outrageous) and Kamek.

 

[n88]

Fawful is ridiculous and awesome. If he's not playable, he should be an Assist Trophy that just spouts his lines from the games endlessly, Mr. Resetti style.

Other nominees for new Mario reps are:

Dr. Mario
Daisy
Bowser Jr.
Rosalina
Paper Mario
Toad
Waluigi
Geno
Fawful

We'll probablly get 1 or 2 of those. One is almost certain to be Bowser Jr. The Koopalings have returned to New Super Mario Bros Wii, but I suspect that Bowser Jr. will take on the role of Mid-World boss.

As for another rep, I'd have to pick (based on whart Fatmanonice is saying) Rosalina, but there's no clear choice here.

Fawful's popularity doesn't really pale in comparison to Geno's. If you go outside of these boards, more people would recognize Fawful, and prefer him over Geno, who they probably wouldn't have heard of.

 

[smash brawl player 99021]

Fawful. Yes. He would be sexy ;D

 

[ChronoBound]

Five kids in Japan does not mean Geno is wanted. Celice got nearly the same number of votes back during the Melee poll.

That is all. I know it shakes you at the core knowing that Geno isn't that popular FatMan, but its the truth.

 

[Clownbot]

Fawful's popularity doesn't really pale in comparison to Geno's. If you go outside of these boards, more people would recognize Fawful, and prefer him over Geno, who they probably wouldn't have heard of.

Eh, I guess it's just all the Geno talk that's been going around lately ... ****'s making me delirious.

It's just that Geno's fanbase is a lot more... err... what's the word I'm looking for? Vocal? I mean, Fawful might be more well-known than Geno, but I'm not sure that means he has a larger fanbase.

 

[ChronoBound]

Eh, I guess it's just all the Geno talk that's been going around lately ... ****'s making me delirious.

It's just that Geno's fanbase is a lot more... err... what's the word I'm looking for? Vocal? I mean, Fawful might be more well-known than Geno, but I'm not sure that means he has a larger fanbase.

Geno's fans are just more vocal, much like how Wolf was more popular than Krystal, yet Krystal's fans put up a bigger hooplah. Truth be told, Wolf's biggest accomplishment in Brawl was ****blocking Krystal.

The only characters from veteran series that ever never been playable that are definitely worthy to get in at this point are Ridley and K. Rool (and Dixie Kong, however, she takes backseat to K. Rool). Everyone else is an unimportant side character.

 

[n88]

Eh, I guess it's just all the Geno talk that's been going around lately ... ****'s making me delirious.

It's just that Geno's fanbase is a lot more... err... what's the word I'm looking for? Vocal? I mean, Fawful might be more well-known than Geno, but I'm not sure that means he has a larger fanbase.

Yes, Geno has a more vocal fanbase, although I'm not sure about size. If you want a good idea of Fawful's fanbase, look at the sales of Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Everybody I know ho played the game loved Fawful. Also, Fawful is a recurring character, is more recent than Geno, is owned by Nintendoand wouldn't be too hard to make a moveset for.

Plus, Sakurai has had the notion of Fawful thrown at him before.

So I'd say Fawful has a decent chance.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yes, Geno has a more vocal fanbase, although I'm not sure about size. If you want a good idea of Fawful's fanbase, look at the sales of Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Everybody I know ho played the game loved Fawful. Also, Fawful is a recurring character, is more recent than Geno, is owned by Nintendoand wouldn't be too hard to make a moveset for.

Plus, Sakurai has had the notion of Fawful thrown at him before.

So I'd say Fawful has a decent chance.

The only Mario characters that I say have a realistic chance as of the present of becoming playable are Paper Mario, Bowser Jr., and Toad. All three though have things going against them though.

However, I can definitely see Fawful's popularity getting a bump considering how he is the main antagonist of the third Mario & Luigi game.

 

[n88]

I don't think Toad has a good chance. Mostly because there's no longer Toad, there's Toads. Plus most of his moveset would have to come from nowhere. I know that's been done before, but it really hurts Toad's chances.

Fawful's popularity will rise when Bowser's Inside Story is out in the US, but the game's already out in Japan, I believe. The Japanese popularity matters more than the American, so we'll have to see how he's doing over there.

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't think Toad has a good chance. Mostly because there's no longer Toad, there's Toads. Plus most of his moveset would have to come from nowhere. I know that's been done before, but it really hurts Toad's chances.

Fawful's popularity will rise when Bowser's Inside Story is out in the US, but the game's already out in Japan, I believe. The Japanese popularity matters more than the American, so we'll have to see how he's doing over there.

Yeah. I think Mario and Luigi 3 has already outsold Mario & Luigi 2 in Japan.

On a side note, here are the results of the Japanese Melee poll....

Super Mario series
(1) Koopa: 169 (Bowser)
(2) Princess Peach: 66
(3) Wario: 65
(4) Kinopio: 27 (Toad)
(5) Nokonoko: 9 (Koopa Troopa)
(6) Kamec: 8 (Magikoopa)
(7) Kuribou: 7 (Goomba)
(8) Mallow (Mario RPG): 5
(8) Geno (Mario RPG): 5
(10) Baby Mario: 3

 

[Clownbot]

So, Goomba inb4 Geno?

...

: D

Actually, based on that list, Toad does seem like the next logical character. Then again, Sakurai's done some pretty wacky stuff before (not bashing), so it's kind of up in the air.

EDIT: Wait, Super Mario Sunshine came out after Melee, correct? If so, Bowser Jr. (depending on the Brawl polls) probably has a better chance.

 

[n88]

Based on that list, yes Toad would be the next character. But Bowser Jr., Rosalina, and Fawful weren't around yet when that poll would have been conducted, and Paper Mario only had one game under his belt.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

EDIT: @ScoobyCafe, I don't think F-Zero is significant enough to get two reps. At this point, I'm not even sure if two are necessary.

You could be right.

I'm still not quite sure Sakurai chooses characters because of significance more so than anything else, but you could be right. It just irks me to see that the F-Zero franchise tends to be... I guess overlooked in terms of character representation, despite how many candidates there are to choose from, kinda like Metroid.

Well if it were to get one new rep, would you rather have Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow? (Everybody can pitch in if you like)

Metroid DEFINITELY needs at least one more rep and the "Ridley's 2 big" argument is a really tired and absurd one.

Glad to see people here are much more smarted then the ones I've encountered before.

If Yoshi gets another rep (I sincerely doubt it will), it'll be the Baby Mario Bros. (whose inclusion might depend on that of Paper Mario, being that two extra Marios is a little outrageous) and Kamek.

Both?

And Kamek. I'm not sure what to say about him. When I hear his name, I think about the magikoopas in SMW before I think of his appearance in Yoshi's Island. Still, I guess his chances are just as good as the Baby Bros.

 

[Clownbot]

About the Yoshi reps: Oh, sorry. I meant to say OR, but my fingers felt like typing something else, I guess.

 

[n88]

Baby Bros have a better chance than Kamek because they're more unique. There are a lot of Magikoopas, but surprisingly few Italian infants with hammers in the Mario universe. Kamek would have an equal chance to the Baby Bros, but Partners in Time gave the Baby Bros a much bigger boost than it did Kamek, as they were playable and they were just as important as the adult Mario Bros.

 

[ChronoBound]

Baby Bros have a better chance than Kamek because they're more unique. There are a lot of Magikoopas, but surprisingly few Italian infants with hammers in the Mario universe. Kamek would have an equal chance to the Baby Bros, but Partners in Time gave the Baby Bros a much bigger boost than it did Kamek, as they were playable and they were just as important as the adult Mario Bros.

Even if that is the case, keep in mind, that the Yoshi series will likely never be getting a second character unless it rebounds in a huge way in popularity.

 

[n88]

Even if that is the case, keep in mind, that the Yoshi series will likely never be getting a second character unless it rebounds in a huge way in popularity.

True. Yoshi's Island hasn't been very popular as of late. Although it could get a boost from all the Yoshi-riding in Galaxy 2.

 

[Clownbot]

Well, like I said earlier, it would probably be odd to have THREE playable Marios, so I think the real battle is between Baby Mario Bros. and Paper Mario.

...Except it's not that much of a fight, because Paper Mario > Baby Mario Bros., right?

Riiiight?

 

[n88]

Paper Mario would win because the Baby Bros would end up being way too similar to the ICs.

(Small duos with hammers)

 

[Pieman0920]

This being your ast post or not, you should really stop breaking down the paragraphs in the future. This is getting way too messY.

Compared to Mallow, Smithy, Booster, and so forth, Geno is the most well received. I cannot state that enough.

I'm not sure why he hasn't appeared in a recent title, but I'm positive it's not due to him not being popular enough, SMRPG content-wise.

Compared to other MRPG originals, sure he's the most popular, but as the game already has three reps, more representation isn't really needed. And sure he's not popular enough. If he really did have the fan demand that could get him into Brawl, he would have had the fan demand to get him into another Mario RPG, or into one of the Mario/SE cross over games. The fact is, that whatever popularity he does have, its not strong enough to make developers change their minds, even when there is a situation where there are no legal issues to go around.

Geno doesn't have history now?

Bad choice of words on my part, but in comparison to other characters, he doesn't have as much history within respects to the series that he is supposed to be representing.

I said it before, but why can't Geno be the secondary face of the Mario RPGs. The RPGs themselves were born from two companies, Square and Nintendo. Like two sides of a single coin, Mario can represent the Nintendo half whilst Geno the other. He'd be like Luigi in terms of being second.

Because he doesn't represent the RPGs. He was in a secondary chaaracter in one of them. Paper Mario is a much better representative due to the three Paper Mario games that followed, and Fawful would be better for the three M&L games, if they needed representation. And if Square were to have represetation, then there are dozens of better characters to choose from than Geno.

This is subjective talk

There are people who think otherwise, made evident by supporters and the poll. Granted, what you said previously could very well be true, but still, the fact remains that he was a top contender there. One could say that the inclusion of Meta-Knight in SSBB represented the Kirby franchise well enough, yet, lo and behold, DDD is a playable character.

That's a horrible analogy. Geno doesn't come close to representing his series, or even the RPG spin off series in the same way that Metaknight or Dedede represent the Kirby series. Plus, a situation involving those two would be better suited for how many reps does the Kirby series need, and when decided upon, uses the next most logical character to represent the series, rather than some obscure one game third party character.

I said before that I'm not a believer in trends, and I stand by that.

Doesn't change how likely it is.

How so?

Their situations are quite similar. If people demand him enough, who's to say Geno won't appear in SSB4 similarly to how Sonic is in SSBB?

You're kidding, right? There's no way you're such a Geno fan boy that it blinds you into thinking that Geno's popularity or demand is on the level of Sonic's. And their situations are no simmilar, as one is a mainstream star of multiple video games, instead of the secondary character of one spinoff series game.

I'll give you Geno's current position in the franchise, but Geno has a history―he wouldn't exist otherwise. And "amount of games" is by no means a legitimate reason. I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.

I keep on bringing it up, because it maters here. The Mario series is a long running one, with many games, and many characters, most of which reoccur. Geno's situation of being a one game character is hurt by this, because there are so many other and better and more important reoccuring characters from within the series that you're saying he should represent. If he were in a series like Mother, LoZ, or FE, where there are few reoccuring characters due to shifts in time/reality, then his one game nature could be excused, but that's simply not the case.

Sure do, seeing how most of the characters on Sakurai's Journal who have entries three and above are in SSBB.

And let's not pussyfoot around. Geno is popular as far as the Mario RPGs are concerned. You're basically saying, "Hey! Stop! Don't believe what you're seeing. He's actually not popular at all. It's all an illusion.. (echo)."

I sincerely mean no offense when I say this, but if you're that delusional, then there's not point in continuing this discussion.

His popularity is only on internet message boards, and has had no real impact in getting him more roles. I'm pretty confident that its much smaller than you've been lead to believe because of that. And the jounal entries were unreliable to cite due to how they were compiled here, and its pointless to even bring up at this point, seeing as Brawl is out. Maybe next time when there's another poll you can bring that up for your Geno arguments, but as it stands, those five people didn't get him into Brawl.

How can a character that appears in one game get into Smash Bros. when he doesn't appear in another?

People make the difference.

With the exception of Sheik, who is basically Zelda anyways, all characters who have only shown up in one game were limited due to the nature of their series, be it one that doesn't continue the same story line from game to game, or their series simply ended there. In addition there were no charactes that represented the series better. These things make the difference that make Geno's chances nigh impossible, yet for some reason you keep on thinking as if these problems are apart form each other. They aren't.

Geno (5 entries)

You can discredit that all you want, but it's there, and should be considered proof that his chances were good at best.

Five people wanted Geno. That doesn't mean that his chances were good. His chances were always bad. He always had the legal probems, and he always had to deal with the better representatives of the Mario series. He also has to deal with the possiblity that there will be no more representatives to the Mario series, since it seems to have hit the rut that the Kirby series has, where all the main bases have been covered, but that's a different issue.

"Never?"

Again with the fallacious statements. I'm not sure why you're denying him the fact that he did indeed had a chance at making it into Brawl. He had a good shot before, and due to what Fatmanonice posted concerning the "backlist" theory, I say his chances are a bit better for SSB4.

He also said that popular characters don't interest Sakurai, and the only thing Geno fans have that can get him in is his "popularity." Of course given how his fans can't get him into any more games, I don't think his popularity is that high at all, but since you think it is, I can't help but wonder how you interperate that statement.

In addition, I'm not all too certain what you mean by backlist theory, but I assume you mean Sakurai looking at past results in order to determine who he chooses (aka the journal results were really pointless) but I should remind you that Sakurai may or may not make the next Smash. Going through Sakurai's mind may be a valid way to speculate on which characters are going to get in, but as of now, we don't know if he's going to be making the next game at all, so its pointless to use the developer's mindframe at this time.

I've explained why I think his chances would be a tad better than they were when Brawl was being developed. And Luigi never starred in his own game until Luigi's Mansion, yet he appeared in SSB as a playable character. That fact is beneficial for Geno.

No it isn't. Luigi was and is a main character of his series. Geno isn't. Luigi had appeared in more than one game. Geno hadn't. Luigi wasn't third party. Geno is.

You've got to stop making points like this, which completely diregard all the other problems that Geno has.

I Let's discuss F-Zero, Metroid, and Yoshi for a few minutes. I hear that people are torn between Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow for the next F-Zero rep. Well, why not both? The F-Zero series hasn't had a new rep since SSB. Nothing but Falcon for the past three games. To even things out, should F-Zero get two reps?

I think it should in the form of Samurai Goroh. Of course that means that a pottential katana moveset would go to him, instead of Takamaru, so I'm not sure how much you'd like that.

The only hot-topic that I know of concerning Metroid is Ridley's inclusion. People here don't think he's too big to gain entry, right?

Most don't. Some do. I'm in the camp that he isn't too big, and can be resized because....well he really can. Look at Bowser for instance, and how large he is in Sunshine. He's almost Kraid size really.

[quo]As for Yoshi, is anyone opposed to the inclusion of Baby Bros. as the second Yoshi's Island rep? I think it'd either be them or Kamek, but I'd much rather have the Baby Bros. What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

Baby Bros is the most likely as far as I'm concerned, but I don't think they'll get in anyways. Kamek is just a generic Magikoopa who's name had a translation flub coming over to the US, and made people think he was a seperate character.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Okay, I'm starting to get tired of this whole Geno argument, and I'm getting tired of quoting the conversation over and over again. I'm with Scooby, last post and I'm DINE with this!

Okay, first of all, Geno does have fans, that is true. The game he was in was very popular and Geno was one of the most popular characters in it. But, the game is pretty old (13 years I believe?), and Geno hasn't been revived since. Plus, Geno's fanbase isn't really that BIG, the fanbase just happens to be more vocal.

Now don't compare Geno to Ice Climbers, Pit, or any retro character. You can think of them as the gods of Nintendo, they were the ones that started off the age of video games. Sakurai shows A LOT of interest in retro games like this, even if they aren't too popular. Also, these characters were actually the stars of their own games, where Geno wasn't even the star of his game.

Also don't compare to Luigi. Sure Luigi was in before Luigi's mansion, but honestly, you're comparing to Luigi!? Luigi is the best known Mario character next to Mario and he has appeared in pretty much every Mario game (minus a few), playable in most of them. Luigi has popularity, familiarity, and he is worthy enough to get in Smash, and Luigi's Mansion boosted his popularity and familiarity greatly. Has Geno appeared in more than one game? Has he been playable in more than one game? Can you ask anyone who Geno is and expect them to know (people that don't play video games even know Luigi, would they know Geno?)? Has Geno starred in his very own game? Popularity is all he's got, and Sakurai doesn't base his choices on pure popularity.

Finally, comparing to Sonic? Sonic has got much more popularity than Geno has, he has a considerably larger fanbase. Geno's fanbase just happens to be a bit more vocal. Plus, Sonic games are still being made today, and like Luigi, you can ask anyone who Sonic is and they will most likely know. You can't really compare Geno to anyone, he just doesn't have any chances.

However, I do expect a song, maybe even some stickers or trophies.


Now ABOUT TAKAMARU and OTHER RETRO CHARACTERS...

I noticed Takamaru was brought up a while back and I have something to say about that. Scooby, you said that Takamaru is the only retro character Sakurai hasn't included yet, and you also said that Sakurai has shown a lot more interest in him. Both of these statements are completely FALSE.

There are many more retro characters that are way more deserving than Takamaru, I'm not sure why you think he's the only one who hasn't been included. He is Japanese only, and there are several international retro characters that are more deserving.

About the next statement, about Sakurai showing more interest in Takamaru, this is most certainly NOT the case. In fact, Sakurai has shown NO interest whatsoever besides a piece of music. Now read below about retro characters.


Okay, first of all, Sakurai shows great interest in MANY retro games, Sakurai is an old-school gamer. He's stated that, among his favorite retro games are Ice Climber, Kid Icarus, Balloon Fight, Mach Rider, and Punch-Out!!.

During the development of Melee, Sakurai and the other developers compiled a group of retro characters. Due to time constraints, only the Ice Climbers were able to be included. The other characters were Pit, Balloon Fighter, and Mach Rider, who were found in the beta of Melee (Mack Rider sounds ridiculous, I know, I thought the same thing). They were also in that given order. Instead, only their trophies remained, but music for Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider remained.

Now if Ice Climbers were the retro characters for Melee, and Pit for Brawl, the next on the list is Balloon Fighter, whom Sakurai has stated is one of his favorite retro game characters. Balloon Fighter is the most likely choice for an SSB4 retro character. Next on the list is Mach Rider (which I personally don't think will happen) and Little Mac, considering Sakurai also enjoys the Punch-Out!! series and has commented on it before.

Just showing that Takamaru really has no chances, I wouldn't count on him being playable or even represented any more than he is in Brawl, with just a small song.

 

[n88]

@ Spydr Enzo

Your trend-thing is a bit off, because there are more newcomers htan that in Brawl.

Really, it should look like this:

SSB64: 12+14=Melee: 26-4+17=Brawl: 39

Transformations should be counted as separate characters because:

1) Sakurai considers them to be separate. According to Sakurai, Melee has 26 characters, Brawl has 39.

2) A transformation takes an equal amount of time to produce as a normal character.

3) Just because they don't have a spot on the Character Select Screen is not a good enough reason. Zero Suit Samus is completely distinct from Samus. You will likely never see a person switch between the two in a match (unless you play with Smash Balls). They are completely different characters. Why should they count as one?

You weren't on/didn't notice this earlier so I thought I'd bring it back up.

Little Mac has infinitely superior chances to Balloon fighter, thanks to the Remake on Wii. I've also heard that Sakurai has said that he wouldn't make a Ballon Fighter moveset, but I don't know how accurate that is.

 

[Wisp]

I think the Mario reps with the biggest chance are Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Fawful, and Toad, though I think Toad's lack of any legitimate moveset is lame. Paper Mario is my favorite out of 'em, and I just love Fawful. :> Though I think I'd be happy with an assist trophy that zoomed around the air shooting out stuff from his headgear and shouting, "I have fury, finkrats!" I agree with the fact that Baby Bros. would be too similar to Ice Climbers as another little pair with hammers, and I'd much prefer Paper Mario to be the next hammer wielder.

As for Metroid, Ridley should get in without question. :< The Metroid series is huge and still kickin', and it's only got two reps. ...And, to be honest, Ridley is the only other cool choice.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

You weren't on/didn't notice this earlier so I thought I'd bring it back up.

Little Mac has infinitely superior chances to Balloon fighter, thanks to the Remake on Wii. I've also heard that Sakurai has said that he wouldn't make a Ballon Fighter moveset, but I don't know how accurate that is.

Okay, but changing 25 to 26 and changing 35 to 39 really isn't much of a difference anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. And If we did count the transformations, it would look like this:

SSB64: 12 + 11 = Melee: 26 + 13 = Brawl: 39

See? The average is still 11 - 13. No matter what, I will always stand by this theory.


And I have to agree with you on the retro characters statement, but I wouldn't say his chances are "infinitely superior". I'd say they are quite eve, but only because Balloon Fighters chances are so high for the next game and thanks to Punch-Out!! on the Wii, Little Mac was boosted up there too.

If you don't understand why Balloon Fighter's chances would be so high, check out my LONG post above and read the section about TAKAMARU and the RETRO CHARACTERS.

 

[n88]

You have to account for the fact that 5 characters were removed from Melee. I only count 4 as being removed because Young Link and Toon Link are pretty much the same.

Brawl had 17 newcomers:

Diddy
Wario
ZSS
Pit
ROB
Meta Knight
Dedede
Olimar
Wolf
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Ike
Lucas
Snake
Sonic

and 12+11 =/= 26

so +14 and +17 average out to +15.5,

I don't know how many spots would be onn the CSS, but following your trend puts the number of characters over 50.

 

[Pieman0920]

Balloon Fighter's chances are not on the same level as Mac's in my eyes, since Sakurai already said he couldn't think of a way that BF would fight, and in contrast, Mac is a fighter who just had a new game. Sakurai's comments aside, BF does have his chances (though they are hurt a bit by Tingle a little bit) I don't think they can be said to be even with Mac's.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Five kids in Japan does not mean Geno is wanted. Celice got nearly the same number of votes back during the Melee poll.

That is all. I know it shakes you at the core knowing that Geno isn't that popular FatMan, but its the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Geno+brawl&search_type=&aq=f

Please note the average view counts of the videos on this page.

While we're at it, we might as well look at this page as well.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Forest+Maze&search_type=&aq=f

You should also keep in mind that there weren't just 290 entries into the poll. Believing that is, because there's really no polite way to put it, beyond ********. Why I'm explaining this more than 3 years after the poll closed and after dozens of times explaining it not only here but on other sites as well is beyond me. They were picked by Sakurai and his staff. Make a note of the people who were already playable of the nine who were mentioned more than once (King Dedede, Diddy Kong, Ike, Toon Link, and Olimar). Why would these characters be noted if they were already playable and, in fact, had been chosen a year before hand? Why have the other four characters with them? Does it strike anyone else as odd how no franchise repeated in the top 9 and how these characters corresponded decently well to what the fans wanted most from each franchise.

We can't keep character debates in the dark ages and ignore things that have been revealed since Brawl was released and keep the circle of ignorance going. Regarding Geno, I never said he was guarenteed but from what we currently have information wise, Sakurai has shown interest and is aware that Geno exists and that there is some demand. What way he'll go with that is up for grabs but, at this present time, it's more than what can be said about any other Mario rep aside from Waluigi, the only Mario actually noted by Sakurai for not being playable this time around.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/assist/assist14.html

That's what we have to keep in mind. For characters like Paper Mario and Bowser Jr, we have nothing that can be linked back to Sakurai, not even journal entries. Geno has poll results going back to Melee and even a comment on the Melee website shortly after Melee was released aplogizing to someone who thought it was thoughtful of Sakurai to include Geno as one of the names in the name randomizer in Melee even though, Sakurai explained, the names were generated completely at random and that it was merely a fluke. Honestly, we can argue about game sales and number of games until we begin to cough up blood but, in reality, Sakurai really, truly, honestly doesn't care. As mentioned more times than it has needed to be, evidence strongly points that Sakurai's main concern is whether or not the characters interest him and be fun to work with.

It's a new ballgame based on what we now know so we can't keep acting like a bunch of monkeys with rocks and sticks everytime character discussions come up. In the past, we focused on the "why" but, in the reality, we should be focusing on the "how" especially since the "why" has more or less been explained. To make things even easier to understand comments like:

1. This game sold *blank* amount of copies.
2. This character has appeared in *blank* number of games.
3. This franchise has been around for *blank* number of years.
4. *blank* deserves to get in before *blank*

are no longer logical arguements. Basically, when it comes to characters, the only things that really matter now are how creative potential a character has. Does the character have a decent amount of material to work that can be seen simply playing a character's game for a few hours and, if not, are they a reasonable clean slate that can be made into a playable character without being outstandingly absurd and of little interest like a goomba? That's what we should be thinking of at this present time.

 

[ChronoBound]

I see that you overlooked the official Melee poll. I see that your Geno fanboyism is blinding you. Geno is VERY UNLIKELY. DEAL WITH IT.

Super Mario series
(1) Koopa: 169 (Bowser)
(2) Princess Peach: 66
(3) Wario: 65
(4) Kinopio: 27 (Toad)
(5) Nokonoko: 9 (Koopa Troopa)
(6) Kamec: 8 (Magikoopa)
(7) Kuribou: 7 (Goomba)
(8) Mallow (Mario RPG): 5
(8) Geno (Mario RPG): 5
(10) Baby Mario: 3

By FatMan's logic, Goomba is more wanted as a playable character than Geno.

 

[n88]

I see that you overlooked the official Melee poll. I see that your Geno fanboyism is blinding you. Geno is VERY UNLIKELY. DEAL WITH IT.

Super Mario series
(1) Koopa: 169 (Bowser)
(2) Princess Peach: 66
(3) Wario: 65
(4) Kinopio: 27 (Toad)
(5) Nokonoko: 9 (Koopa Troopa)
(6) Kamec: 8 (Magikoopa)
(7) Kuribou: 7 (Goomba)
(8) Mallow (Mario RPG): 5
(8) Geno (Mario RPG): 5
(10) Baby Mario: 3

By FatMan's logic, Goomba is more wanted as a playable character than Geno.

Ouch.

He may have expressed interest in Geno, but popularity does affect the roster somewhat. Geno is not as popular as he seems. The view count on those videos is not the best indicator as to wether or not Geno is popular. I'm sure there are people who have watched those videos multiple times, and I imagine the creators check in to see what people think of it, contributing to the view count.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

You have to account for the fact that 5 characters were removed from Melee. I only count 4 as being removed because Young Link and Toon Link are pretty much the same.

Brawl had 17 newcomers:

Diddy
Wario
ZSS
Pit
ROB
Meta Knight
Dedede
Olimar
Wolf
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Ike
Lucas
Snake
Sonic

and 12+11 =/= 26

so +14 and +17 average out to +15.5,

I don't know how many spots would be onn the CSS, but following your trend puts the number of characters over 50.

Whenever cut characters are brought into these debates, I tend to get a bit confused... So you could have a good point, I'll look into that a bit more and see if I can come up with a reasonable solution...

Balloon Fighter's chances are not on the same level as Mac's in my eyes, since Sakurai already said he couldn't think of a way that BF would fight, and in contrast, Mac is a fighter who just had a new game. Sakurai's comments aside, BF does have his chances (though they are hurt a bit by Tingle a little bit) I don't think they can be said to be even with Mac's.

I don't know, Sakurai has wanted Balloon Fighter in since Melee, and according to his list of retro characters, he would be next on the list. Yes, Little Mac's chances are boosted up due to his new game, but his chances weren't to good to begin with like Balloon Fighter's were. Mac's game has boosted him up to about the same level as Balloon Fighter.

And remember, Balloon Fighter is a fighter like Mac (hence the name Balloon Fighter, and the game called Balloon Fight)., but he uses a unique style. As Fatman stated earlier, Sakurai bases most of his choice on originality and uniqueness of the character, with popularity on the side. Balloon Fighter is very unique, and one of Sakurai's favorite NES games, which is why he would be a likely choice.

Little Mac isn't too unique and a moveset for him would be just as difficult. All there is to do is punch... Standard moves would basically be the same as special moves, only special moves more powerful or something... not very unique or original in my opinion...

BUT in the end, Balloon Fighter's chances and Little Mac's chances are at the same level. Both may be hard to create a moveset for and both are fighters. Mac's upside is that he has a new game, and Balloon Fighter's upside is that he is a unique character and is one of Sakurai's favorite NES characters.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I see that you overlooked the official Melee poll. I see that your Geno fanboyism is blinding you. Geno is VERY UNLIKELY. DEAL WITH IT.

Super Mario series
(1) Koopa: 169 (Bowser)
(2) Princess Peach: 66
(3) Wario: 65
(4) Kinopio: 27 (Toad)
(5) Nokonoko: 9 (Koopa Troopa)
(6) Kamec: 8 (Magikoopa)
(7) Kuribou: 7 (Goomba)
(8) Mallow (Mario RPG): 5
(8) Geno (Mario RPG): 5
(10) Baby Mario: 3

By FatMan's logic, Goomba is more wanted as a playable character than Geno.

Despite the fact that I even mentioned Melee both in the context and of pre and post release but go ahead and read only what you want to read and nerd rage all the same. Also, you addressed NOTHING that was actually said in my post aside from pointing out how I clearly and without a shadow of a doubt proved you wrong concerning your comment of how Geno is unpopular and virtually unknown. Honestly, if a video that's essentially ear **** can attract more than 1.5 million views simply by proposing the horrifically illogical idea that Geno could be unlocked via a glitch then that definately says something about the character especially when it's extremelly unlikely that any sane person would watch it more than once. Again, it should also be noted that most of the videos I posted on those two pages, went into the high thousands which again, proves that you're actually speaking from your own fanboyism while I can actually back up my arguements while you let your arms and legs go limp and lean back on rote.

Also, I can post the Melee poll results and, since this seems to be a contest of who can copy and paste the best, too and I can even post all the characters mentioned in the Brawl journal because, after all, it's supposedly beyond the capabilities of anyone else who owns Microsoft Word and a functional mouse:

The 2001 Offical Melee poll results:

Mario Bros:
1. Bowser (169)
2. Peach (66)
3. Wario (65)
4. Toad (27)
5. Koopa Troopa (9)
6. Kamek (8)
7. Goomba (7)
8. Mallow (5)
9. Geno (5)
10. Baby Mario (3)

Pokemon
1. Mewtwo (35)
2. Mew (24)
3. Red (18)
4. Misc. Pokemon (12)
5. Lugia (11)
6. Meowth (8)
7. Raichu (7)
8. Marill (5)
9. Bulbasaur (5)
10. Togepi (5)

Legend of Zelda
1. Ganondorf (36)
2. Young Link (8)
3. Zelda (8)
4. Sheik (8)
5. Shadow Link (2)

Kirby
1. King Dedede (46)
2. Gooey (17)
3. Metaknight (11)
4. Misc. Kirby Companion (10)
5. Waddle Dee (3)

Mother
1. Mr.Saturn (18)
2. Poo (6)
3. Other Good Guys from Mother 2 (Earthbound) (4)
4. Paula (4)
5. Starman (3)
6. Jeff (3)

Star Fox
1. Falco (7)
2. Slippy (5)
3. Wolf (4)
4. Peppy (2)

Fire Emblem
1. Marth (21)
2. Misc. Character from Fire Emblem (18)
3. Ogma (8)
4. Serris (4)
5. Sigurd (2)
6. Leaf (2)

Rare
1. 007 James Bond (35)
2. Banjo & Kazooie (18)
3. Diddy Kong (15)
4. Blast Corps Robot (2)
5. 006 (2)

Other NES/SNES Characters
1. Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight) (15)
2. Lip (Panel de Pon) (9)
3. Richard (For the Frog the Bell Tolls) (8)
4. Metroid (6)
5. Foreman (from Wrecking Crew) (6)
6. Pit (5)
7. Donbe or Hikari (5)
7. Misc. Character (The Marvelous Bunch) (5)
8. Samurai Goro (4)
9. Popo and Nana (4)
10. Balloon Fighter (4)

Non-Nintendo
1. Chocobo (9)
2. Doraemon (7)
3. Bomberman (5)
4. Crash Bandicoot (4)
5. Sonic (3)
6. Megaman (3)

All the characters mentioned in Sakurai's journal at least once:

Koopa Troopa (Super Mario Bros. - 1985)
Hammer Bros. (Super Mario Bros. - 1985)
Toad (Super Mario Bros. 2 - 1988)
Petey Piranha (Super Mario Sunshine - 2002)
Geno (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - 1996)
Mallow (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars- 1996)
"Cel-Shaded" Link (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 2002)
Tetra (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 2002)
Link's Uncle (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - 1991)
Ganon/Ganondorf (The Legend of Zelda/The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 1986/1998)
Bow Wow the Chain Chomp (The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX - 1998)
Ridley (Metroid - 1986)
Peppy Hare (Star Fox - 1993)
Slippy Toad (Star Fox - 1993)
Krystal (Star Fox Adventures - 2002)
Wolf O'Donnell (Star Fox 64 - 1997)
Diddy Kong (solo) (Donkey Kong Country - 1994)
Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country/Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest - 1994/1995)
King K. Rool (Donkey Kong Country - 1994)
Ninten (Mother - 1989)
Paula (Mother 2 [EarthBound in the U.S.] - 1994 [1995])
Jeff (Mother 2 [EarthBound in the U.S.] - 1994 [1995])
Poo (Mother 2 [EarthBound in the U.S.] - 1994 [1995])
Claus (Mother 3 - 2006)
Lucas (Mother 3 - 2006)
Princess Kumatora (Mother 3 - 2006)
King Dedede (Kirby's Dreamland - 1992)
Lololo & Lalala (Kirby's Dreamland - 1992)
Marx (Kirby Super Star - 1996)
Oguma (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Nabarl (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Sigurd (Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu - 1996)
Ike (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
Mia (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
The Black Knight (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
Black Shadow (F-Zero X - 1998)
Palutena (Kid Icarus - 1986)
Medusa (Kid Icarus - 1986)
Eggplant Wizard (Kid Icarus - 1986)
Isaac (Golden Sun - 2001)
Felix (Golden Sun: The Lost Age - 2002)
Little Mac (Punch-Out!! Featuring Mr. Dream - 1990)
Dragon Chan (Super Punch-Out!! - 1994)
Banker (Mario Paint - 1992)
Ray 01 (Custom Robo - 2004)
Captain Olimar (Pikmin - 2001)
Tom Nook (Animal Forest - 2001)
Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo! - 2005)
Muddy (Mole Mania - 1996)
The Blue Virus (Dr. Mario - 1990)
Lip (Panel de Pon - 1995)
Furil (Nintendo Puzzle Collection: Panel de Pon - 2003)
Takamaru (Nazo no Murasamejou - 1986)
Harry the Robot (Teleroboxer - 1995)
Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight - 1993)
Donbe (Shin Oni ga Shima - 1987)
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Tantei Club Part II: Ushiro ni Tatsu Shoujo - 1989)*
Professor Kawashima (Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day - 2006)
Urban Fighters (Urban Champion - 1984)
#166 Golden Sun characters and/or Advance Wars infantrymen
#218 Famicom Tantei Club characters
Third Party Suggestions
Mega Man (Capcom) (Mega Man - 1987)
Sonic (Sega) (Sonic the Hedgehog- 1991)
G-Red (Capcom) (Gotcha Force - 2003)
Simon Belmont (Konami) (Castlevania - 1986)
Power Pro-Kun (Konami) (Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu '94 - 1994)
Lupus (Rare) (Jet Force Gemini - 1999)
Sora (Square Enix, Inc.) (Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 2004)
Doctor Wright (Maxis) (SimCity - 1991)
Princess Katia (From Software) (Lost Kingdoms - 2002)
Kalas (tri-Crescendo/Monolith Soft) (Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean - 2003)
Magnus Gallant (Quest/Nintendo) (Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber - 2000)
Thomas the Kung-Fu Master (Irem) (Spartan X [Kung-Fu in the U.S.] - 1985)

 

[Spydr Enzo]

A big wall of very well thought out text...

Fatman, I just wanted to know, out of the Balloon Fighter and Mac, who do you think Sakurai would choose for the new retro character?

Sakurai obviously bases most of his choices on the originality and unique qualities of the character, and not as much on popularity. So if this was the case, I believe Sakurai would choose the Balloon Fighter. He is much more unique than Little Mac, and is the next on the list for Sakurai's retro characters. Plus, along with Pit and Ice Climbers, he stars in one of Sakurai's favorite NES games.

Punch-Out!! is one of Sakurai's favorites too, but it isn't getting noticed as much as Balloon Fighter, even though there is a new game. So, what do you think?

 

[ChronoBound]

Despite the fact that I even mentioned Melee both in the context and of pre and post release but go ahead and read only what you want to read and nerd rage all the same. Also, you addressed NOTHING that was actually said in my post aside from pointing out how I clearly and without a shadow of a doubt proved you wrong concerning your comment of how Geno is unpopular and virtually unknown. Honestly, if a video that's essentially ear **** can attract more than 1.5 million views simply by proposing the horrifically illogical idea that Geno could be unlocked via a glitch then that definately says something about the character especially when it's extremelly unlikely that any sane person would watch it more than once. Again, it should also be noted that most of the videos I posted on those two pages, went into the high thousands which again, proves that you're actually speaking from your own fanboyism while I can actually back up my arguements while you let your arms and legs go limp and lean back on rote.

Also, I can post the Melee poll results and, since this seems to be a contest of who can copy and paste the best, too and I can even post all the characters mentioned in the Brawl journal:

HAHAHAHHAH! Keeping spinning that you are not spinning for Geno.

Here are some facts , when I was writing my journal in regards to character to prospects for Smash 4, I noticed that many of these character suggestions were actually grouped together in the listings (meaning that more than one character was listed per entry), also moreover, not all the listings that mentioned Geno talked about wanting Geno as a playable character, but rather the Forest Maze. Remember, there were three things that fans wrote for Sakurai under the Brawl journal:
1. "The character that wants inserted" (lol engrish"
2. "The song that wants inserted"
3. "Thoughts"

The people that compiled the lisiting merely tried to find the character's name throughout all of the entires, regardless of what the entry was actually for.
Some of the suggestions for Geno were actually for the music of Geno's debut local, the Forest Maze.

 

[Rouenne]

Sorry for the noobish question, but how do I update the Brawl+ version?

 

[Fatmanonice]

HAHAHAHHAH! Keeping spinning that you are not spinning for Geno.

Here are some facts , when I was writing my journal in regards to character to prospects for Smash 4, I noticed that many of these character suggestions were actually grouped together in the listings (meaning that more than one character was listed per entry), also moreover, not all the listings that mentioned Geno talked about wanting Geno as a playable character, but rather the Forest Maze. Remember, there were three things that fans wrote for Sakurai under the Brawl journal:
1. "The character that wants inserted" (lol engrish"
2. "The song that wants inserted"
3. "Thoughts"

The people that compiled the lisiting merely tried to find the character's name throughout all of the entires, regardless of what the entry was actually for.
Some of the suggestions for Geno were actually for the music of Geno's debut local, the Forest Maze.

Thanks for giving me the oppurtunity to prove you wrong, once again, and show you how to actually debate with competence. Below are all five entries in Japanese, "engrish" and with an english summary.

No.14
ニックネーム及びHiGe 反射の貢献の主題* 特性に関する…ほとんどの第1 ハンマーか。それは???? とある事。あなたのによる、それが??????? RPG は. 非常に興味のその時間の友人に...... 借りるCM を、見てようである方法が...... 方法のそれを戻すことを確信していたをよくそれはあなたのによってとるに足らない事を、非常に好むそのゲームを取っておいた。ゲームの元の特性の精神が存在するところそ、否人形およびGee の中で。年少の心では、それは反射との彼に非常にとどまった。その時に販売がそれ小学校学生だったので、自由にする時があった。そのために、それまたであることは......, それが終りの悲しい意味決してでないが、ところに速いそうなったものであるために待たれている単にちょうど小さく寂しい分離非常に取り除く。次の仕事があったら、考え、それ確かに、それであることはGee の否に会うことができるが、... 速いので、それを既に渡す時間はよい年齢になった、(確かに笑うことにこのアンケート、覚えなかったどちらかGee の否の事を、おそらくそうであるなかった。アンケートに答えている間、多分する及び... 少しを期待しているちょうどちょうど会うことができる時あるどうか、それ増加するない、

No.14 Nickname & HiGe The reflection contribution theme * concerning the character Most first the hammer っ it is with マリオシリーズ the thing. In case by your, that was スーパーマリオ RPG. Seeing CM, very borrowing to the friend of that time with interest...... certain, you have forgotten to return it seems the way that way...... Well it sets aside trivial thing, by your very you like that game. Even among them, the doll and the Gee no where game original character soul resides. In juvenile mind, it stayed in him with the reflection very. Because sale at that time it was the elementary school student, freely there was a time when you play. Because of that, being also it clears to be quick extremely, simply just a little lonesome separation where but......, it is not never sad meaning in the ending, waited. If the next work was, being to think, that certainly and it can meet to the Gee no, it does, but because... it is quick, time to pass already it became good age, (laughing certainly did not have this questionnaire, you did not remember either the thing of the Gee no, probably will be. While answering to the questionnaire, when perhaps it does and it can meet, that... just just you expecting a little, whether it is it is not, it increases,

This person wants Geno in Brawl because Super Mario RPG was his favorite game growing up and he first played it in Kindergarten. He was very sad that Geno went back up into the heavens at the end of SMRPG and didn't appear in the following RPG, Paper Mario. He says that it is a good time to bring him back. He finishes by basically saying to Sakurai, "since you're such a nice guy, I bet Geno's already in the game and you're just not telling us." (God love him for saying it. )

第86
ニックネーム及び初め反射の貢献の主題* 特性の初めに関する…! か。どれがか。か。か。であるか。新たな業務それはあり、刺激された! ! 反射はへのか。か。か。、概念ととゲームから... か。か。言うところか。私が否Gee を...! 愛するRPG! Gee の否のライン配置回転及び技術及び。非常にあるのは椅子の来ることである。_ 最初演劇時間未熟幼稚園子供(!) あ、しかし今既にそれあ高等学校学生。は均一にのためにそれゲーム渡った多くか10 年は好み時折あなたがしたあることがである。か。カシはが、よく理解しないで、傷つく感じでする今それとのそれ全然異なっているある、考えないか。する。また... 非常に楽しいことを理解される達されるGee の否ポイントの魅力から、* それが人形のおよび/または、真実を言うことは星のメッセンジャーのとき、"干し草真実を言う否はない! "それは単語であるか。か。か。か。cuteness 、(笑う) 及び... ED を強制する少しビットkana 。それの再度青いふた! 生産は、^ ^ 辛抱するか。楽しまれたかどれが!

No. 86 Nickname & beginning The reflection contribution theme * concerning the character Beginning! The っ which is the スマブラ new work it is and has been excited! ! The reflection to キャラ, with with the notion that where you say... from game and マリオ RPG which I love the Gee no...! ! Lines turning and skill and setting of Gee no. It is the chair coming which very is. First play time immature kindergarten child (!) Was, but now already it is the high school student. 10 years or more it passed to be even to, it is favorite the game which occasionally you have played. The む oak does, without understanding well, doing in feeling, hurting, but now you do with it is different at all, it is, don't you think?. Also from charm of the Gee no reached the point where it is understood... it is very delightful, is, * the no no to tell the truth it is the doll and/or, to tell the truth is the messenger of the star when, "the hay! "It is word っ ちゃ う cuteness, (laughing) and... little bit kana forcing ED. That, blue mantle again! Production, please persevere ^ ^ the っ which has been enjoyed!

Here's another person who grew up with Super Mario RPG and also discovered it when he was in Kindergarten. He's now in high school but it is still his favorite game and he still breaks it out every once and a while. He comments that "like an oak tree, his love for the game grows with each passing year." He then talks about what he likes about Geno and how he wishes to see him return.

第247 ニックネーム及び海きゅうりの貢献の主題及び左右される等。既に偽りなく頼む。考えるこれは10 の手紙の構成として示された。"要求Gee 消すこと! "そして好みあなたが書く飲料。好みの飲料: か。か。か。か。

No. 247 Nickname & sea cucumber Contribution theme & depending etc. You ask already truly. This thinking was designated as 10 letter compositions. "The request Gee no putting out! " Then favorite the beverage you write. Favorite beverage: アンバサ

This one's a bit odd. This guy requests Geno but, to avoid having his entry to be too short for submission, he asks Sakurai what his favorite drink is and then tells him his.

第268
ニックネーム及びか。か。か。反射の貢献の主題* 今日特性に関する…、始まるか。あなたが既に即座に揺り動かされたこのページは発見される! ! いいえか。私は前か。か。か。ゲームで愛する第1 べきべきするか。今まで。その毎日はそれをした。両方ともか。か。か。と考える、それ素晴しい段階、映画および音楽は可能、ある。か。か。か。のでか。あなたが私、弟および姉妹のまわりになかったり、または1 人と増加されておよび、あなたは全然疲れている育たなかったが友人。1 人と愉快に遊ぶことができる考察はそれを病気かぐこのゲームの量あるべきであるである。私は疲れさせた、大抵する、ゲームをすぐ、それある育つ。ためにこれのために全然疲れている育たない。考えるべきでそれがむしろそれを作るそのそのようなゲームは困難である、作られる... Sakurai! それは良識の恐ろしい人、(笑う) か。か。でありか。氷のクライマーの第1 反射はある。それである氷のクライマーは知っているずっと普及したべきべきであるが、... 決して美しくない...! そう! いつか。か。か。か。か。か。か。勝利、それ何かの時にある密な美しいが触れた! ! 使用することを試みる時そしてそれ何か強い! ! ! それはいつ1 人されたり、弱いボディが、空気の側面の動き遅い、しかし停止がある欠点か。か。か。その強い?? が感じること技術はそれがよかったことを決定される! ! 、I か。か。か。のでか。主題はあった。ことそれはおそらく勝つ????, の弟の孤に絶望的がある、か。か。か。技術は... ほとんどそれであるために胸のカシを勝つことができ結局、点検しが、(笑う) それから辛抱したそれと断念するべきであるか。か。か。か。か。それらがそれが詰まらせるそれは形態、声か。か。か。美しいとの聞くことを望み源であるのでここにに私を引っ張るためにはか。X, はある。前の効率か。か。か。か。個人は完全に同じ、しかし各自またでありではなかった。か。効率が異なっている精巧にという事実はおかしいそうか。考えて、それがいかに増加するか。か。、ところで新しいか。か。か。Gee の否そして参加をのか。か。望む。既に、また10 年は、CM 渡るかまたはまだ物語か音楽を忘れることができない均等になっている。2 つが独特な人々および特性および技術であるので加わることができるときむしろ楽しむことができると考える。長い文のimpoliteness それは。それからボディに注意を... 払う


No. 268 Nickname & マユミ The reflection contribution theme * concerning the character Today, beginning? This page you were already agitated instantaneously is discovered! ! No せ I do 1st being to love in the game which previous スマデラ did until now. That everyday did that. You think that both キャラ, stage, the movie and music it is splendid it is possible and is. Because スマデラ the friend who does was not around me, the younger brothers and sisters you do, or did increased with 1 person and, but you did not grow tired at all. The consideration which can be played pleasantly even with 1 person, is quantity in this game, ill-smelling it is being to be. I grow tired the game doing, mostly, immediately, it is. So as for this you do not grow tired at all. Being to think, that such game it makes rather it is difficult, it does, but Sakurai made that...! It is the fearful person in good sense, (laughing) キャラ is the 1st reflection in the ice climber. The ice climber being it has been popular being to have known, it does, but... never it is lovely so...! ! When ポポナナ パンッ has touched at the time of victory, it is dense lovely something! ! When and it tries using, it is strong something! ! ! When 1 person it is done, there is a weak point that the weak body, aerial side movement is slow, but the stop っ ちゃ feeling where that intense スマッシュ skill is decided it was good! ! Because, I アイクラ was subject. That it probably will win the fox of the younger brother with アイクラ, being desperate, コンボ skill inspects the bosom oak to be... almost it could not win after all, but (laughing) even then it is to abandon with it has persevered? アイクラ to pull me to here, because they are the sources whom it makes be packed, and that the form, voice would like to hear lovely even with スマブラ X, is. Efficiency of the previous ポポナナ individual completely was the same, but each one also っ て the fact that efficiency is different delicately is funny so? How thinking, it increases. The あ, by the way new キャラ desires the Gee no and the participation of マロ. Already, also 10 years pass, but CM or not yet even cannot forget the story or music. Because 2 are people and character and skill unique, when it can participate, you think that it can enjoy rather. The long sentence impoliteness it does. Then paying attention to the body...

Most of this entry talks about why this guy loves the Ice Climbers but let's get past that. Near the end, this person requests Geno and Mallow and says that despite how many years have gone by, he/she cannot forget the game's story or music because he/she enjoyed it so much. This person then mentions that Geno and Mallow would be very unique characters and that many people would enjoy them if they were added.

第276
ニックネーム及び???? は貢献の主題* 加わられたSakurai がある皆全員を挿入する望まれる開発への音楽、及び。非常に今日。おそらくいかにありなさいか開発か。私達はではゲームで使用されるそれらに関しては音楽に関しては1 芸術であるとそれがによってライスケーキの残りの夜通しであるが、それそうである考えるゲームに必要であるところで、向かう! ゲームに関しては、????, は1 冊の本へのNintendo Co. の蓄積。すなわち、Nintendo Co. 音楽の1 冊の本への蓄積がある前述の場合もある理由がないか。第一世代、DX 、および新たな業務のX 。彼のによって行う印象づけられた傷つくことはのそれあらゆる????. とする主要な主題ただそれは耳としてX をけれども示すことができるがこの1 つの調子であり、他の、それある震えた! それがそれなるかいかに、ないあるであることを開発が本格的に進むとき既に、知っていた。よく、むしろ事は印象と運転する。すべての平均によって、すべての人々、私達は印象の破損がそれ可能である一種の音楽を要求する! 個人的にそれはである?? の森林のBGM "のか。か。か。"carefulness が森林のきのこにそれあれば、" 楽しいべきであるRPG "非常に、それ、考えないがか。しかしそれが事実であるので、... ことそれはまたである????, の版権はそれは不合理である; 否Gee が加われば、よく確かに! (Excessiveness ここの更新そう1 つの時間の閉鎖及び開発にすね捧げる。皆! 新しい世界は楽しまれる! 辛抱しなさい!

No. 276 Nickname & マリオマスター Contribution theme * the music which is wanted inserting All everyone who has participated Sakurai, and to development. Very today. Will development how probably be? In we head, as for the music which is used in the game, as for those where it is necessary for the game it is the rice cake remaining overnight, but you think that they are one fine arts, it is! As for the game, スマブラ, the Nintendo Co. compilation into one book. In other words, there is no reason which even compilation into one book of the Nintendo Co. music can be said is? X of first generation, DX, and new work. By his is impressed hurting, it does with any スマブラ. Only main theme it can designate X yet as the ear, but it is this one tune, and others, you shivered, it is! Already, when development advances in earnest, you knew it is it is not, how it becomes, is. Well, rather thing please drive out with impression. By all means, all people, we request the kind of music which the impression tear it is possible! Privately it is BGM of the forest of ハナチャン "of マリオ RPG", if "carefulness it is in the mushroom of the forest," being to be delightful enormously, it does, but don't you think? but..., because that is the case that it is also the copyright of スクエニ, it is unreasonable; Well, if the Gee no participates, certainly! (Excessiveness The renewal here it devotes to one time closing and development so the shank. Everyone! The new world is enjoyed! Please persevere!

Here's another long one. This person comments on how wonderful Brawl's opening theme was and how he is blown away about how much potential this game has musically. He then requests the background music of Forest Maze in Super Mario RPG, "Beware the Poison Mushrooms." He mentions how he's concerned that it won't make the cut because it is under the copyright of Square Enix. He then suggests that because it'd be pointless to contact SE just for that piece of music, why not ask for Geno while they're at it?