[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[majora_787]

What about me? I was Kumamon on NSider.

NSider? ....Man, I forgot all about that place. I should probably go back there sooner or later.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, I was on Nsider. Nice to see you guys again.

Majora, wasn't Nsider dead for years? I think that's why most of us came here.

 

[majora_787]

Yeah, I was on Nsider. Nice to see you guys again.

Majora, wasn't Nsider dead for years? I think that's why most of us came here.

That must have been why I left. XD I knew I had a good reason for once...I just couldn't remember.

 

[Pieman0920]

You cannot compare Bowser, Olimar, and Kirby to Ridley. Lets look at this way...

Kirby is supposed to be 8 inches in Kirby games. But he does not look 8 inches in Smash games when he's standing next to Mario and Link. Kirby has no one to scale with so he fitted in just fine. So, Meta Knight and King Dedede are to scale with Kirby so they fit in just fine, too.

Dedede is smaller than normal in Brawl, if you use Kirby as the base.

Samus is probably 6 feet tall in Metroid games. She does not look 6 feet tall in Smash games when she's standing next to Kirby or Olimar but she fits in just fine because there's no one to compare her with.... except Ridley. Ridley has been consistently depicted as much bigger than Samus to the point he can lift her with one hand (just like in the SSE) so he is scaled to be much bigger than Samus in Smash games just like in Metroid games.

Pikachu is scaled so much smaller than a normal human in the Pokemon games, but there's no real problem with that in Brawl, is there? That squirtle shouldn't come up to PT or Charizard's knee if you're going by that. Putting it simply, people can be scaled. Heck, you have K.Rool in there, who is often shown as twice the size of DK if not more, so I have to ask you what the deal with him being there is.

Bowser is normally depicted as just bigger than Mario in Mario games and Mario RPG games. If he's much bigger than Mario in some games like SMS and SMG, it could easily be explained away with Super Mushrooms, Mega Mushrooms, or even Kamek's magic - even if it happened off-screen. So, Bowser is to scale with Mario in Smash games while Petey Piranha is much bigger just like in SMS and he's to scale with Mario, too.

No, it can't be explained away with that, as it was never shown. I could just say that Ridley had growth hormoes in most of his games, and in reality, he is smaller than Samus, and that'd be just as valid as that dumb theory. Seriously, scale means nothing, unless you're someone like say Kraid.

So what if the individual Toad is not playable in NSMBWii? The individual Yoshi isn't even playable in any of Yoshi's Island games anyway. You only play as the generic Yoshis, not the individual Yoshi. The individual Yoshi wasn't even born until the end of Yoshi's Island DS. The individual Yoshi is one of the Star Children like Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, and Donkey Kong. Of course, if all the generic Yoshis can fight like they do in Yoshi games, the individual Yoshi can do the same. So, if the generic Toads can fight in NSMBWii, then the individual Toad is capable of fighting just the same.

Actually, the Yoshi used in Smash is most likely the Yoshi who stars in the Yoshi's Island series, given the seperate series status. Thus, the Yoshi that helped out Mario in SMW may not be the Yoshi who is played in the Smash series, but rather the one who was taking down Bowser in SMW2. (Also, if Toad mattered any more, wouldn't HE have been one of those kids?) So in all, its really not the same.

Also, a character not having enough moves does not mean that character cannot be playable in Smash. When will people learn? R.O.B. virtually had no moves at all. The only moves that you would expect from R.O.B. are the gyros and the spinning arms (you had to spin R.O.B.'s arms to play Gyromite and Stack-Up). But the rest are all made-up but as long as it made sense, its fine. Robots in science fiction typically shoot lasers from their eyes and fly around with rocket boosters anyway.

Then its pointless to want Toad. R.O.B. moves in Brawl were pretty much all made up, but that was mostly due to the fact that he was a story character. He was Smash's representative so to say. If you just want them to imagine up moves for Toad, why not have them imagine up moves for just about any other character? The characters are supposed to use moves and abilities from their own series, so what's the point of adding one when they don't use them at all? Look at how many people were mad at Ganondorf's clone status, and how he doesn't actually represent his character. Of course that situation is different, as Ganondorf has moves to actully use while Toad really doesn't. And for everything you suggested, basically everything just seems like either generic abilities that could be given to him, abilities that would work better with items, or moves that have already been used for other characters.

As for the Dog's moveset, I don't see the point of the down special. Sure it makes him unqiue but it doesn't really add anything but annoyance for the player, as you have to manage a pointless thing. At least with Olimar, different Pikmin had different effects, but do you know how annoying it'd be to constantly have to "charge" Pikachu so he could just use some of his attacks? Plus it doesn't make that much sense to need to have the bush when attacking in the air. If you ask me, if you wanted to make this work, you'd simply have him in the bush at all times. The dog would enter into the bush in his intro, and when you make attacks, or stay idle too long, he'd pop his head out. In addition, the neutral and side specials really are pretty much the same.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, I was on Nsider. Nice to see you guys again.

Majora, wasn't Nsider dead for years? I think that's why most of us came here.

That's why I came here. I might register on NSider2 soon.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, I was on Nsider. Nice to see you guys again.

Majora, wasn't Nsider dead for years? I think that's why most of us came here.

Yeah, Nsider was shut down in October 2007. I remember because it was right before the the "Online" update on Smash Bros Dojo.

That's why I came here. I might register on NSider2 soon.

Don't bother... Nsider2 is garbage now. I made an account there and was bored to death within two days. Pretty much all the "good" people have gone their seperate way. I came here in 2006 after I heard about people talking about my Geno Japan trip just to confirm that me and my story were real. I went between the two sites but this pretty much became my permanent home when I got locked out of my account in late October 2007 and the Admins ignored my emails to restore it...

 

[Zook]

You know who needs to be a character in SSB4?

Miyamoto.

 

[majora_787]

You know who needs to be a character in SSB4?

Miyamoto.

As a punching bag? Or as a serious competitor?

 

[Fatmanonice]

You know who needs to be a character in SSB4?

Miyamoto.

That's probably not the best idea. His sheer awesomeness would render all the other characters useless.

 

[UberMario]

How about these for SSB4

1. No freefalling what-so-ever, can use 3 different specials once a piece before resorting to standard moves. (Makes raptor boost, falco phantasm more user-friendly)
2. Being hit in mid-air recovers 1 mid-air jump
(Less emphasis on gimping)
3.Using the same grab three-times in a row results in user being punched in the face.
(No chain-grabbing)
4. Tripping caused only by moves
5. Different stage modes. A normal mode and a competition mode.
(I.e. no Pokemon attacks on Spear Pillar during tourneys, Warioware doesn't
activate mini-games)
6. Can grab onto the legs of edge-grabbers and climb up them.
(less emphasis on gimping)
7. Give them more cheerful voices like in Melee.
EDIT: 8. Name it Super Smash Bros. Fisticuffs


What do you agree on?

 

[Clownbot]

You know who needs to be a character in SSB4?

Miyamoto.

Pshh, everyone knows Sakurai is the better option.

 

[Pieman0920]

Different stage modes really wouldn't work that well, as certain stages are designed around their gimicks. Plus a stage like Spear Pillar would still get banned, even if the Pokemon didn't attack.

Also what's this about cheerful voices?

(Lastly, Tussle sounds to girly. At least call it Frenzy.)

 

[Clownbot]

Alright then, how about "Super Smash Bros. Debate"?

As for Spear Pillar, just leave it neutral. Don't switch the stage around or anything.

 

[SmashChu]

That's probably not the best idea. His sheer awesomeness would render all the other characters useless.

Was that really Miyamoto

Don't bother... Nsider2 is garbage now. I made an account there and was bored to death within two days. Pretty much all the "good" people have gone their seperate way. I came here in 2006 after I heard about people talking about my Geno Japan trip just to confirm that me and my story were real. I went between the two sites but this pretty much became my permanent home when I got locked out of my account in late October 2007 and the Admins ignored my emails to restore it...

Stories? Do tell.

 

[UberMario]

Different stage modes really wouldn't work that well, as certain stages are designed around their gimicks. Plus a stage like Spear Pillar would still get banned, even if the Pokemon didn't attack.

Also what's this about cheerful voices?

(Lastly, Tussle sounds to girly. At least call it Frenzy.)

Mario, Luigi, Zelda, and a few others sound depressed in Brawl.

and for a name how about Fisticuffs?

 

[Scott!]

How about these for SSB4

1. No freefalling what-so-ever, can use 3 different specials once a piece before resorting to standard moves. (Makes raptor boost, falco phantasm more user-friendly)
2. Being hit in mid-air recovers 1 mid-air jump
(Less emphasis on gimping)
3.Using the same grab three-times in a row results in user being punched in the face.
(No chain-grabbing)
4. Tripping caused only by moves
5. Different stage modes. A normal mode and a competition mode.
(I.e. no Pokemon attacks on Spear Pillar during tourneys, Warioware doesn't
activate mini-games)
6. Can grab onto the legs of edge-grabbers and climb up them.
(less emphasis on gimping)
7. Give them more cheerful voices like in Melee.
EDIT: 8. Name it Super Smash Bros. Fisticuffs


What do you agree on?

Why all the anti-gimping stuff? That's a major part of the game, and the goodness of a character's recovery is a big part of balancing them. Characters don't need to get their jumps back for being hit. They get to do another special. And climbing up edgehoggers is a little silly.

And the bit about the specials confuses me. Characters can, and often will use three specals in their recovery. Olimar might down-B to avoid a gimp, throw a pikmin to punish if he doesn't need it, and then up-B. Marth might use side-B to gain extra height on a jump, use shield breaker for horizontal distance, and then up-b. There's plenty of others. But going into freefall makes sense, because otherwise the character would be able to do the move again.

As for the bit on chain grabs, you shouldn't be punished with percent damage for successfully grabbing your opponent repeatedly. Grabs should of course be tested well to make sure that they aren't chainable with good DI, at least for long. That's how chain grabbing should be fixed.

4 is absolutely correct, though. 5 won't happen, and we have usable stages anyway, so that's fine. 7 is something I never knew was a problem.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

SURVIVAL MODE!!

I have an idea for a new mode I think would be really neat. It would be in the Multi-man Battle section and it would be unlockable by getting certain achievements in each Multi-man Battle mode (I believe this mode is so great, you have to earn it ).

I call it Survival Mode. If you've ever played Nazi Zombies in Call of Duty: World at War for the Xbox 360, just transfer the objective and basic idea of that game to the physics and gameplay of Super Smash Bros.

STAGE DESCRIPTION
I see it working like this: You choose your character (co-op is also an option) and enter the arena. This arena is different; it is not a playable stage, it is exclusive only to this mode. Imagine a tunnel going in a complete circle, possibly with tunnels going through the middle connecting each side and tunnels branching off to the side into other rooms. You can also picture the "Underground Maze" from the Adventure mode in Melee, but without the huge room in the middle. Also, there are no bottomless pits an no way to fall off. Finally, imagine it being themed like the "Race to the Finish" in Melee's Classic mode; all futuristic and metallic and stuff.

GAME OBJECTIVE
Now, you start in a specific spot each time. You have 200 stamina, not percent damage. Fighting Alloys enter from holes in the wall that open only to let out Alloys. The Alloys, of course, chase you and attack you in hopes of depleting your stamina until you are dead. They also have stamina, starting around five, so they can be killed pretty easily. Once you kill a certain number of Alloys, you'll get a small break as it transitions to the next wave of Alloys (you're in the same room, the Alloys only stop coming for a bit). The next wave is a bit tougher, maybe 10 stamina. This continues until you die. The objective is to see how many Alloys you can kill or how far you can get before you run out of stamina.

ALLOY BEHAVIOR
The Alloys get stronger and stronger as you get through each wave. The Alloys never use their shield, they never dodge, but they continue to get stronger and quicker reflexes, as well as increasing Stamina. At a certain point, they will start dashing towards you, and if you happen to dodge a lot or use your shield, they will notice and attempt to grab you. After killing Alloys, you get points, maybe 10 points per green Alloy, 20 points per yellow Alloy, 30 points per blue Alloy, and 40 points per red Alloy.

GAME BONUSES AND SECRETS
Their are several bonuses and secrets which I will mention here.

-First of all, every five waves, a character from the playable roster will make an appearance. These characters, unlike Alloys, can shield and dodge, and they generally have a bit more strength and stamina.

-Every once in a while, you will encounter a Black Alloy, a very large and powerful Alloy. Alloys like this have 5 times as much stamina as the standard amount for whatever wave it appears in (for example, in the first wave, a Black Alloy would have 25 stamina). Killing a Black Alloy rewards you 250 points.

-Use your points to unlock secret rooms. Sometimes, doors will be blocking a path. Stand in front of it and it will say the amount of points needed to enter (500 - 4000). Then press the button indicated and the door will rise. These secret rooms often provide more escape routes, but they also may contain more Alloy doors.

-The Shop, is a secret place, placed in any random secret room whenever the game starts. The door that contains the shop will always be 2500 points. At the shop, you can buy power-ups for points. Cost will vary depending on power-ups. Power-ups include thing such as:

-Food: Heals 10-50 stamina depending on type of food ~ 2000 - 5000 points.
-Speed: You will speed up for a few seconds and you will be allowed to jump higher ~ 1000 points.
-Bomb: Plant a bomb near a large group of Alloys to destroy them all automatically, regardless of Stamina ~3000 points
-Trap: Plant traps on any chosen Alloy door and any Alloy that exits will be killed/lose a significant amount of stamina, this lasts for a few minutes. ~ 4000 points.

There are many others, including Black Alloy lures, Invisibility, Time control, and much more!



Thats all I have for this game mode, I would LOVE to see something like this in Smash. Who else would like something like this in a Smash game?

 

[Clownbot]

That idea sounds great.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pieman, you said the characters are supposed to use moves and abilities from their own series. So, how could Captain Falcon fight if he had no moves in F-Zero? How could Pit fight if he had no dual blades in Kid Icarus? How could Samus fight if she never punched and kicked in Metroid games? The "no made-up moves allowed" rule is full of bad logic. There is nothing wrong with made-up moves as long as they made sense in respect to the character in question. You also completely dismissed my suggestions for Toad over ignorant reasons. Generic abilities? Abilities that would work better with items? Moves that have already been used for other characters? Surely if you really did play any SSB games, you should know better than to spout that garbage.

 

[Pieman0920]

Captain Falcon's moveset was actually from...what's the thing called, Dragon King? The game that the original SSB was before they decided to use Nintendo characters for it. If you look at the early screen shots of it, you'll notice that the fighters are basically like fighting polygon team versions of Captain Falcon. Pit's blades are completely made up there, but he could fight anyways, so that's a moot point to begin with. Samus not punching or kicking is also a rather silly analogy. :V

The problem with what you're suggeting is that is a much more extreme case then what you're trying to make a excuse for. The thing is you're listing characters who can pottentially do things like punch and kick, but then saying that something else could be made for the person who barely has any arms or legs. And why was it garbage? The turnip pull is Peach's ability. The super jump is King Dedede's abiity. The use of a poison mushroom is basically just using a item as a special. The golden mushroom thing is just basically Green Missle/Skull Bash/Rollout and what not. While certain characters will probably share abilities with other characters, Pretty much every character has some unique thing going for them. (unless a clone)

 

[sundayseclipse]

nice idea enzo

 

[Arcadenik]

Pieman, you said pulling turnips is Peach's ability like she's the only one who knows how to do it. Mario, Luigi, and Toad knew how to pull turnips, too. Sure, Mario and Luigi don't use that ability because they have been in more games where they use different skills. But Peach had been in few games that she doesn't have a lot of abilities so it made sense for her to pull turnips. Toad doesn't have a lot of abilities so it would make sense for him to pull turnips, too. It is not taboo for characters to share some similar moves.

It is also not taboo for characters to use items as special moves. Peach's vegetables were items in SMB2. Diddy Kong's bananas were items in Mario Kart games. Link's bombs were items in Zelda games. R.O.B.'s gyros were items you needed to play Gyromite. Mario's fireballs were basically the result of him picking up Fire Flowers in Mario games.

Also, I said Toad's Golden Mushroom special move would make him run faster (like how mushrooms make your kart go faster) and bump into other characters to make them trip (like how a mushroom-powered kart would make another kart lose control) and steal their held items (like how you could steal items from other karts when you bump them with a mushroom). It is nowhere similar to Green Missile, Skull Bash, and Rollout like you said. The closest similarity would be Yoshi's Egg Roll in terms of control but that's it. Yoshi's Egg Roll doesn't make characters trip.

What's this? Toad "barely have any arms or legs." What the heck are you talking about? So, I guess we should take out Kirby and Pikachu because they barely have any arms and legs, right? Are you making up character qualifications as you go by? And you wonder why I called your arguments garbage.

 

[UberMario]

Why all the anti-gimping stuff? That's a major part of the game, and the goodness of a character's recovery is a big part of balancing them. Characters don't need to get their jumps back for being hit. They get to do another special. And climbing up edgehoggers is a little silly.

And the bit about the specials confuses me. Characters can, and often will use three specals in their recovery. Olimar might down-B to avoid a gimp, throw a pikmin to punish if he doesn't need it, and then up-B. Marth might use side-B to gain extra height on a jump, use shield breaker for horizontal distance, and then up-b. There's plenty of others. But going into freefall makes sense, because otherwise the character would be able to do the move again.

As for the bit on chain grabs, you shouldn't be punished with percent damage for successfully grabbing your opponent repeatedly. Grabs should of course be tested well to make sure that they aren't chainable with good DI, at least for long. That's how chain grabbing should be fixed.

4 is absolutely correct, though. 5 won't happen, and we have usable stages anyway, so that's fine. 7 is something I never knew was a problem.

Brawl relies a little too much on gimping. (This is coming from a guy that gimps people 50% of the time)

What I meant for 3 is if the person uses the same throw three times in a row, the grabbed person will retaliate and trip the CG-er. Although the developers should make sure CG-ing is
out in the first place.

5. A few more usable stages I thought was a good idea. (All they have to do is make the stage "frozen in time".)

The climbing idea was supposed to be a punishment for edge-hoggers that hang after their
invincibility frames.

7 is just for the lolz. (Luigi: Yipee! *smack* Player 2 defeated)

Spydr Enzo that mode idea sounds great!

 

[Pieman0920]

Pieman, you said pulling turnips is Peach's ability like she's the only one who knows how to do it. Mario, Luigi, and Toad knew how to pull turnips, too. Sure, Mario and Luigi don't use that ability because they have been in more games where they use different skills. But Peach had been in few games that she doesn't have a lot of abilities so it made sense for her to pull turnips. Toad doesn't have a lot of abilities so it would make sense for him to pull turnips, too. It is not taboo for characters to share some similar moves.

Then why not choose a character that has more moves that they can use, and on top of that, more relivant for the series? Why go back to a character who's only notable move is from decades ago, and on top of that, is something that another character is already doing. Sure there is no real problem with having someone else take up turnips, besides the unabashed copy and paste of the move, but you're also the one who made up that big post about anti-cloning.

It is also not taboo for characters to use items as special moves. Peach's vegetables were items in SMB2. Diddy Kong's bananas were items in Mario Kart games. Link's bombs were items in Zelda games. R.O.B.'s gyros were items you needed to play Gyromite. Mario's fireballs were basically the result of him picking up Fire Flowers in Mario games.

I meant items in the game itself, yeesh. How did you not get that? The fact that someone uses items from their own game doesn't matter if they are special things that only they can use. The only character there that actually is a valid concern is Diddy Kong, who likely only got the bannana treatment because he got seperated from Dixie Kong, and they got lazy when making a new down B for him. (It kind of shows with his weird pose he gets into when he does that move)

Also, I said Toad's Golden Mushroom special move would make him run faster (like how mushrooms make your kart go faster) and bump into other characters to make them trip (like how a mushroom-powered kart would make another kart lose control) and steal their held items (like how you could steal items from other karts when you bump them with a mushroom). It is nowhere similar to Green Missile, Skull Bash, and Rollout like you said. The closest similarity would be Yoshi's Egg Roll in terms of control but that's it. Yoshi's Egg Roll doesn't make characters trip.

The Golden Mushroom doesn't make you trip in the Kart games either. It hits you, and you fly off to the side a ways. Heck, given the karts in Mario Circuit, when a smash character actually gets hit by a kart, they don't tirp, but rather get hit. But if you were to ignore this, and simply make it a tripping ability without damage then you'd simply have a waste of a move, because as soon as you trip someone, you're basically going to have to stop your momentum, sit through the animation that stops the attack, and then go and hit them, in which time they would have gotten up.

What's this? Toad "barely have any arms or legs." What the heck are you talking about? So, I guess we should take out Kirby and Pikachu because they barely have any arms and legs, right? Are you making up character qualifications as you go by? And you wonder why I called your arguments garbage.

One's a character that absorbs (and uses) the abilities of fighters, and the other is a fighting animal, and you're comparing these to a roya retainer who has never been shown to throw a punch with his stubby little arms or legs either. Heck, do you even picture how moronic that'd look? While its true that Toad could theoretically be made to kick and headbutt around, it still wouldn't stop the fact that everything that he'd use would be pretty much made up on the spot there, making it pointless to add him in. While being a non combative type of character, not important, not popular, not relevant, not having moves, and there being better choices for your series are all single factors that don't necessarily stop a characters chances, when they are all added up together, they do, and that's what you get when you think of Toad.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I would support Toad for SSB4 if I didn't support Bowser Jr., but Toad is next on my list. I can see him being playable in SSB4.

But I agree with the point Pieman is trying to make, Arcadenik. The way you envision Toad and the moveset you came up with makes him completely un-original and just plain lame. He could be given a much better moveset and more originality.

Stuff like throwing items already used in the game isn't a great idea. You don't even need to play as Toad to see that. Tripping characters with an attack could get really annoying, and is just a horrible idea.

Pulling turnips and doing a super jump type thing are already used by characters in the game, and people don't like clones. In fact, we try to de-clone characters instead of create new clones, and hope Sakurai does the same.

 

[Wisp]

This is the section on Toad's (the character) abilities from his page on Super Mario Wiki.

"Super Mario Bros 2 revealed that, despite his diminutive size, Toad is somewhat stronger than the Mario Bros., pulling Vegetables and Coins out of the ground faster than any other character. It also showed that he is a very fast character, being able to run faster than the others. This was further influenced in the Mario Kart series, where he is a lightweight character and very often an extremely fast one. Wario's Woods gave him the unique ability to walk up walls, but this ability has not been seen since. Toad used a Hammer in Mario Party 3, but this too has not been seen recently. He is generally considered an expert on items, often giving Mario power-ups and telling him what he needs to do. His appearance in Super Smash Bros. Melee further hints at the fact that he has good endurance. Additionally, episodes of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! and The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 occasionally had Toad using Power-Ups such as in "The Fire of Hercufleas" where he uses a Fire Flower, and in "The Ugly Mermaid" where he spends the entire episode in a Frog Suit. He is even one of five characters (the other four being Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Wario) who can turn into different, more powerful forms; he becomes Super Toad when touching a Fire Flower and the Toad Warrior when touching a Starman. "

Unfortunately, besides his speed, lightweight frame, and weird wall-walking power, pretty much every ability Toad has is either clone-y or related to items. A whole moveset could be made for him from scratch, but not being able to do much without items does hurt his chances. :[

 

[DekuBoy]

I want Wuhu Island from Wii Sports Resort to replace Delfino Plaza.

 

[Pieman0920]

The inclusion of Wii Sports things seems like something that may be a bit inevitable, but I don't think it'd technically "replace" Delfino, as Delfino would be a past stage if anything.

Also, one thing that I kept on saying before Brawl, and I still think should happen, if SSB4 is on the Wii, is the inclusion of Miis as playable characters. When customizing a moveset, you can assign a Mii's head to the name you're using, and it'd pop up on their when fighting. If you're not using a name, the Mii's head could be either one of the random ones you've made, or just a default one if you havn't made any.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

The inclusion of Wii Sports things seems like something that may be a bit inevitable, but I don't think it'd technically "replace" Delfino, as Delfino would be a past stage if anything.

Also, one thing that I kept on saying before Brawl, and I still think should happen, if SSB4 is on the Wii, is the inclusion of Miis as playable characters. When customizing a moveset, you can assign a Mii's head to the name you're using, and it'd pop up on their when fighting. If you're not using a name, the Mii's head could be either one of the random ones you've made, or just a default one if you havn't made any.

Ugh, I've never been fond of the whole idea of Miis in Smash.

And I'm sure that SSB4 won't be on the Wii, Sakurai has only "considered" the game, so the chances are highly unlikely.

 

[Pieman0920]

Well remember, whenever the next Smash game comes out isn't up to Sakurai. If Nintendo wanted, they could hand it off to someone else.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Pretty sure something to this effect was mentioned before, but if not... well, here's something.

One thing I expect to see in SSB4 (tentative title) is the implementation of a meter. Visually, I'd imagine it'd look something like this:

(But better, of course)

I call it the "Smash Meter"

The Smash Meter builds up energy during the course of a match. Merely going on the offensive will do so much to fill it. You'll have a better shot at filling it quicker by performing certain moves, such as: teching, wall-teching, powershielding, clashing, etc.

Standing in one place for too long will gradually deplete the meter.

(This give the player an incentive to go on the offensive more to reap the fruits of labor instead of camping)

Once filled to the brim, you'll be able to perform more advance techs at the expense of the meter. For instance: "Air Tech"

Air teching allows you to recover from hitstun while stuck in the air. Your character will blink white and experience a brief period of invincibility upon a successful air tech. Tilting left or right on the control will allow you to bounce in said direction.

(Think of this as a more convenient form of momentum canceling)

* Click both shield buttons while in hitstun to air tech. This tech will not work if you're in or beginning the tumbling animation.

To the left of the meter is a filled "Smash Gauge"

The Smash Gauge fills up as you take damage. Once full, you'll be able to do a "Final Smash"

(Final Smashes being more balanced, of course)
---

You'll have the option to enable or disable the Smash Meter or Smash Gauge before your match begins.

Good idea?

 

[Spydr Enzo]

A smash meter would certainly improve some of the qualitites that many people dub "cheap", as well as sort of motivate the player. I think its a pretty good idea.

 

[majora_787]

A smash meter would certainly improve some of the qualitites that many people dub "cheap", as well as sort of motivate the player. I think its a pretty good idea.

And it could deffinatly work better than getting everyone to chase a glowing, tiny sphere around stages.

 

[SmashChu]

@ScoobyCafe and everyone else: The "Smash meter" idea is very dry, uncreative, and does nothing to set the game apart. Smash was good because it didn't follow the conventions of other fighting games. So how do you make it better. Why, go in reverse and do what the series has so far avoiding (and for good reason). Yes, that will work. The idea of a item given a final smash fits better in the context of Smash Bros as all it is is another powerful item (a staple of Smash). It also successfully changes the dynamic of the game as now the focus of the fight changes to the ball to get the attack (or prevent someone else from getting it). It works a lot better then a meter. Meter=static as you'll get it anyway and the course of the game continues unchanged. Ball=Dynamic as the game changes drastically because of a glowing ball that has multiple layers of reasons for getting. Dynamic will always be more in in games, making it a better choice.

 

[Pieman0920]

Yeah, the meter seems a bit too conventional. Additionally, it seems better suited for defensive playing doesn't it? I'm no pro-smasher, but aren't teching and power shielding defensive techniques? On top of that, the ability that is gained is defensive, and the offensive player is punished because even if he does manage to damage the opponent enough, they get a FS.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

The "Smash meter" idea is very dry, uncreative, and does nothing to set the game apart.

The purpose of the idea is to give conveniency to the player. The smash ball was a nice little gimmick at first, but it quickly wore thin on my nerves. I'm sure many others feel the same way.

Smash was good because it didn't follow the conventions of other fighting games.

True to a degree.

One could say that the concept of the "Final Smash" isn't unconventional.

I also feel that the meter wouldn't get much of any flak if it took a similar approach to SSBs health meter, a la percentage. I can't really fabricate it, but something in the same vein as the percentage would work nicely.

The idea of a item given a final smash fits better in the context of Smash Bros as all it is is another powerful item (a staple of Smash).

I'd think that an unorthodox meter would practically do the same.

It also successfully changes the dynamic of the game as now the focus of the fight changes to the ball to get the attack (or prevent someone else from getting it). It works a lot better then a meter.

The latter part of your sentence is subjective nonsense.

Yes, it changes the dynamic of the game, but to say that the implementation of a meter wouldn't do much of the same is silly.

Meter=static as you'll get it anyway and the course of the game continues unchanged.

Again, the latter is false.

I'd hate to bring it up while discussion Smash Bros., but you should probably check out Street Fighter 4. The meter can be a game changing thing, as I'm sure it would if one appears in SSB4.

Ball=Dynamic as the game changes drastically because of a glowing ball that has multiple layers of reasons for getting. Dynamic will always be more in in games, making it a better choice.

The meter is not only just as dynamic, but also convenient. I'd think it's the better choice, but I guess different strokes for different folks.

Yeah, the meter seems a bit too conventional. Additionally, it seems better suited for defensive playing doesn't it? I'm no pro-smasher, but aren't teching and power shielding defensive techniques? On top of that, the ability that is gained is defensive, and the offensive player is punished because even if he does manage to damage the opponent enough, they get a FS.

You're referring to the smash gauge.

In a way, yes, you can say that the smash gauge is more convenient for the defensive player. But at the same time, you'd probably end up dying before using your said FS. It could even the score up for someone getting their butt handed to them, but you'd have to use it before dying, in which it resets.

 

[pacmansays]

No offense but in fighting games I often hate meters like that and I play with the smash ball turned off and for competitive play I think anything like that should be removed.

 

[Wisp]

I think overall what we've come to appreciate about Smash games as opposed to other fighting games is its utter simplicity, when it comes to the absence of things like gauges and bars. It's a little less technical stuff to have to pay attention to, which lets us focus on the fighting without distraction.

 

[highfive]

Pacman for "Super Smash Bros. Altercations" Read it somewhere, don't ask, can't remember.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

No offense but in fighting games I often hate meters like that and I play with the smash ball turned off and for competitive play I think anything like that should be removed.

None taken.

You can enable or disable the option to use the meter and gauge, though. For those who like the flashiness and power of the FS, they'd probably enable it.

I myself don't play with items, I'm just giving more options. =P

I think overall what we've come to appreciate about Smash games as opposed to other fighting games is its utter simplicity, when it comes to the absence of things like gauges and bars. It's a little less technical stuff to have to pay attention to, which lets us focus on the fighting without distraction.

I agree, but I also enjoy the technical aspect of Smash games, perhaps even more so than the simplicity of it.