[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[rexinator]

I just think that they have to impliment SOME form of being able to play a more pokemon. Honestly, I ditched the pokemon thing years ago but having them in smash is just a cool, refreshing boost. Plus the fact that smash is NORMAL fighting inatead of turn-based fighting.

Oh, and by the way. Has anyone clicked on that link to the online pokemon game that keeps showing up on this site? I wnat to know if it's any good.

 

[sniperfire]

I just think that they have to impliment SOME form of being able to play a more pokemon. Honestly, I ditched the pokemon thing years ago but having them in smash is just a cool, refreshing boost. Plus the fact that smash is NORMAL fighting inatead of turn-based fighting.

QFT










(i need 10 characters so here they are)

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Mostly because the current ones...suck. Ivysaur and especially Charizard are two of the worst characters in the game, and the fatigue mechanic is an incredible handicap for a serious player to deal with.

But for what it's worth I agree with you, because I really like playing as them...but I don't do so as often as I'd like to because of how plain bad they are.

Ivysaur isn't that great but Charizard is pretty good. Much better then Squirtle at least.

 

[Delta_BP26]

Chief Mendez, you've gotta be kidding me. Come on... PT's Pokemon are great, aside from Squirtle, but even he's good.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I just think that they have to impliment SOME form of being able to play a more pokemon. Honestly, I ditched the pokemon thing years ago but having them in smash is just a cool, refreshing boost. Plus the fact that smash is NORMAL fighting inatead of turn-based fighting.

"Turn-based fighting?"

I really don't think you know what you're talking about. There are already more Pokemon in Brawl than there are characters from any other franchise.

Oh, and by the way. Has anyone clicked on that link to the online pokemon game that keeps showing up on this site? I wnat to know if it's any good.

Yeah it's really fun, actually. Head on over there and get that puppy running! It's definitely not a poorly-organized adware client though, so don't let that cross your mind.


And as for PT, I feel that Squirtle is the best of the three. All his attacks are ridiculously fast, Withdraw can be used to avoid any attack in the game (even Final Smashes), and he's the tiniest character in the game. I'd seriously main him if not for the lack of a Down Special and the stupid fatigue thing.

Ivysaur's second up, but nowhere near as good as Squirtle. Bullet Seed can do amazing amounts of damage near the start of a match, Razor Leaf is easily spammed, and he has the best Dash Attack in the game. If not for his sh*t recovery and unfortunate combination of low speed and "just okay" damage, he'd be a solid fighter.

But Charizard's easily the worst. The only good aerial he has is his spike, which isn't nearly as good as almost every other spike in the game. Two of his Aerials are unable to KO below 200%. And they all have stupidly bad priority. For the only Pokemon with wings, this is horribly awkward. The rest of his attacks are mediocre, which would be fine if his air game was worth a d*mn.

...So that's how I see it. They're not the worst characters in the game by themselves...but when you're forced to play as all three, things get much, much worse.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

My thoughts on characters:
Shadow? really? if there's shadow and no nuckles, I'd die a little on the inside.
Pokemon: Mewtwo yes. More pokemon other than him, hell no. everyone already in the game is ok; this isn't a pokemon game this is a smash game.
Krystal: a staff wielder would be neat, but 4 star fox characters? maybe wolf can be axed or something. Well, if there are 3 sonic reps then I guess star fox could have 4. Depends on the roster size.

 

[SmashChu]

But Charizard's easily the worst. The only good aerial he has is his spike, which isn't nearly as good as almost every other spike in the game. Two of his Aerials are unable to KO below 200%. And they all have stupidly bad priority. For the only Pokemon with wings, this is horribly awkward. The rest of his attacks are mediocre, which would be fine if his air game was worth a d*mn.

Read:I can't play as Charizard.

Charizard is extremely powerful if you hit at the right point. His forward air can kill pretty quickly if you hit really close, same for the back. His down throw and up throws are also really powerful, and he has some strong smashes. Hit the down tilt far away and it can kill opponents quickly.

A character is not based on aerials (and charizard isn't). The lack of those doesn't mean he sucks.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Read:I can't play as Charizard.

Charizard is extremely powerful if you hit at the right point. His forward air can kill pretty quickly if you hit really close, same for the back. His down throw and up throws are also really powerful, and he has some strong smashes. Hit the down tilt far away and it can kill opponents quickly.

A character is not based on aerials (and charizard isn't). The lack of those doesn't mean he sucks.

He sucks as part of a team of three though. I've been trying to master PT since the game launched, and I simply can't get used to automatically being switched to the next Pokemon in line after every KO. It's so jarring--I get into the groove of super-aggression with Squirtle, but suddenly I have to start playing at a range with Ivysaur, then I have to play a much more defensive game with Charizard.

And yeah, there are other characters with bad aerials, but Charizard takes the cake. What's the use of close-to-the-body sweet spots on such a gigantic punching bag? Couple his less-than-ideal aerials with his ridiculously bad jumps, and you have yourself a bad character, especially since it forces me to come up with new methods of approach, which almost always involve Rock Smash, i.e. the most telegraphed move in the game, second only to Falcon Punch.

But you know...I could still get over all that if it weren't for his sheer lack of priority on 90% of his moves. That's the single one character buff I want to see in SSB4: more priority for Charizard. It's ridiculous that such a heavyweight should be so easily pushed around by nearly every other move in the game, no matter what he's doing.

 

[SirKibble]

I can't play Charizard, either, but I have to argue that Ivysaur can actually be quite a deadly character. I use both Squirtle and Ivysaur fairly well when playing PT. It's my Charizard that kills me. I never was good with the heavyweights...

Anyway, I only ask for a few basic changes to be made to the Pokemon Trainer for SSB4.

1) No Fatigue -- Seriously, it's an unnecessary mechanic that really just makes the character a bit crappy. And what's the in-game basis? PP? Stupid...

2) No Set Order -- At the very least, there needs to be a little trick to switch in reverse order. What if I have this awesome strategy that requires me to switch from Ivysaur to Squirtle? Anyway, there just needs to be a way to switch to either of the other Pokemon.

3) No KO Switching -- Okay, so this actually makes sense, but it's a pain! I can't tell you the number of times I've been rocking with Squirtle, only to have an unlucky Fall, and get stuck trying to find openings for TWO switches. In-game basis or not, I firmly believe this needs to go.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I can't play Charizard, either, but I have to argue that Ivysaur can actually be quite a deadly character. I use both Squirtle and Ivysaur fairly well when playing PT. It's my Charizard that kills me. I never was good with the heavyweights...

Sorry if my ranting gave off the impression that I don't like any of those characters--I love playing as all three of them, and PT's one of my top three mains...but they're a really poorly-balanced character.

No Fatigue -- Seriously, it's an unnecessary mechanic that really just makes the character a bit crappy. And what's the in-game basis? PP? Stupid...

The in-game basis is that switching out is a huge part of the Pokemon games due to type trumping, and PT is made to sort of emulate that in Smash Bros. = if you're fighting, say, an Olimar or Samus as Squirtle, and can't get past their constant projectiles, switch to Charizard to take advantage of his better launch resistance, bug hitboxes, and higher damage.

...But the thing is, Pokemon's turn-based, not reflex-based. So I think that idea falls flat in a game of skill like Smash Bros.

 

[SirKibble]

But still, why should they have to get fatigued? You should have to switch out because you have a bad match-up, not because "lol Charitard iz tierd" (c wut I did there?). That's how it is in Pokemon. You don't switch because your Pokemon's losing its steam, you switch because that Seadra is going to slaughter your Golem otherwise.

Yeah, first gen FTW.

 

[Chief Mendez]

But still, why should they have to get fatigued? You should have to switch out because you have a bad match-up, not because "lol Charitard iz tierd" (c wut I did there?). That's how it is in Pokemon. You don't switch because your Pokemon's losing its steam, you switch because that Seadra is going to slaughter your Golem otherwise.

Yes, I was gonna' say that in my above post. But yeah, this.

 

[Mardyke]

On the Pokémon Trainer, I think they need to make it far less penalising to switch out between any three of them. If there's no way to counter the lag time between swaps, then let there be a few seconds of invulnerability after a new Pokémon has been called out. I see having to adapt to all three playstyles as part of the one character - ideally it'd be best if you needed to work with all three to utilise the trainer's full potential.

I very much agree on the notion of having to swap out because one pokémon has a type advantage over the opponent instead of getting tired - that addition overcomplicates the trio.

 

[DekuBoy]

I hate the mechanic which allows them to dodge moves while switching. Make switching faster and get rid of that.

 

[Foxy Alopex]

I think Jody Summer from F-Zero would fit in perfectly with the females of brawl after seeing her trophy.

 

[rexinator]

"Turn-based fighting?"

I really don't think you know what you're talking about. There are already more Pokemon in Brawl than there are characters from any other franchise.

I meant the fact that smash is normal/continuous fighting. Where as the pokemon games are all about taking turns attacking ("turn-based" fighting)

 

[Pieman0920]

I think Jody Summer from F-Zero would fit in perfectly with the females of brawl after seeing her trophy.

Not really. She's never really done much in the series, and doesn't have any moves. There are several better suited female characters, as well as other F-Zero characters. =/

 

[Big-Cat]

Not really. She's never really done much in the series, and doesn't have any moves. There are several better suited female characters, as well as other F-Zero characters. =/

In Jody's defense, Capt. Falcon had NO moves prior to Smash. Based on her car, you could give her a feline-esque moveset. We already have a feral one through Wolf.

 

[Mardyke]

If we should get any one F-Zero character, please let it be Mighty Gazelle. I loved racing as that guy and getting all his stuff in F-Zero X and GX.

If we can get two or three, then Dr. Stewart, Pico and/or Samurai Goroh need to fit; they're the traditional four for each F-Zero game after all.

 

[Chief Mendez]

If we should get any one F-Zero character, please let it be Mighty Gazelle. I loved racing as that guy and getting all his stuff in F-Zero X and GX.

If we can get two or three, then Dr. Stewart, Pico and/or Samurai Goroh need to fit; they're the traditional four for each F-Zero game after all.

Gazelle has nothing to do with the plot though, and even seeing as F-ZERO really isn't about storyline...that's still the best way to measure how much exposure, and therefore popularity, a given character has.

I mean I personally love Pico and Mr. EAD, but they're never getting in.

I don't think F-ZERO is a large or iconic enough franchise to warrant more than one more character, though, and the go-to-guy for that spot is usually Black Shadow. He'd follow in the footsteps of Captain Falcon of "F-ZERO characters being the manliest characters in the game", and aside from that whole "he can take Ganondorf's old moveset", he's actually got a lot of potential for an original moveset.

 

[Darkwashu]

Gazelle has nothing to do with the plot though, and even seeing as F-ZERO really isn't about storyline...that's still the best way to measure how much exposure, and therefore popularity, a given character has.

I mean I personally love Pico and Mr. EAD, but they're never getting in.

I don't think F-ZERO is a large or iconic enough franchise to warrant more than one more character, though, and the go-to-guy for that spot is usually Black Shadow. He'd follow in the footsteps of Captain Falcon of "F-ZERO characters being the manliest characters in the game", and aside from that whole "he can take Ganondorf's old moveset", he's actually got a lot of potential for an original moveset.

*Is reading Black Shadow's moveset*
*Notices the Codec*

"
Snake: That’s Batman. Why am I fighting batman?
Colonel: It’s black shadow
Snake: Looks like batman to me
Colonel: He’s one of the most ruthless racers in F-Zero. His machine, the black bull, crushes other machine like..
Snake: You mean the batmobile?
Colonel: Snake, if you want to beat this fighter, don’t let him get in any attacks while boosting…
Snake: Then who’s robin…"

Awe inspiring.

But Samurai Goroh > Black Shadow.

 

[toon_marth]

x and zero and I am as happy as can be.

 

[Marios My Bro]

How about adding Banjo Kazooie to the game. Their could be tons of moves for him

 

[Chief Mendez]

But Samurai Goroh > Black Shadow.

He's also a bumbling idiot post-GX. And as seen in Brawl, his primary weapon would be a katana...and frankly, I think there are better options for Smash Bros.' first samurai.

x and zero and I am as happy as can be.

X = Mega Man, and I doubt we'll be seeing two Mega Man characters, so Zero's not happening. I guarantee it.

How about adding Banjo Kazooie to the game. Their could be tons of moves for him

1. You forgot a question mark and a period.

2. Banjo-Kazooie are two people, one of which is female.

3. There could be tons of moves for a lot of people.

4. They're owned by Microsoft. It's never going to happen. The first N64 game (and presumable Banjo-Tooie) is being released on XBLA, with all refrences to Nintendo removed and replaced with Microsoft Game Studios and Rare logos.

 

[Linkshot]

It's so sad...they seem perfect. Their character icon would be a Jiggy and the victory would be the Get Jiggy tune from Kazooie. *sighs* I still need to beat Banjo Tooie, anyway.

Oh, and Final Smash: TOTALLY Dragon Form Kazooie. She's beast.

 

[SmashChu]

Gazelle has nothing to do with the plot though, and even seeing as F-ZERO really isn't about storyline...that's still the best way to measure how much exposure, and therefore popularity, a given character has.

Easy, right now, Black Shadow is the most popular.

 

[Ganon4President]

wouldn't it be awesome if megaman had a down b that activates like a sword style megaman. LIke a zelda transformation or sumthing. I can see the sword final smash right now....

 

[SmashChu]

wouldn't it be awesome if megaman had a down b that activates like a sword style megaman. LIke a zelda transformation or sumthing. I can see the sword final smash right now....

My idea for him was he could press down B to change his blaster. He would obtain a new blaster when he kills a character (all blasters are based off a character).

 

[Lovely]

Man, I haven't post in this thread in a long time.

Anyways, I think Ice Climbers should return to Smash Bros, that and with a new Final Smash, (if they won't have more than two). Some time's I wish there was a new Ice Climbers game just as there will be a new game for Pit.

 

[Linkshot]

I dunno, I can feel something, like Pit's gonna get a Wii game. I mean, the graphical update on him was amazing.

A new Ice Climbers would be amazing in 3D.

Balloon Trip on WarioWare: Smooth Moves was so awesome, on a slightly unrelated note.

Anyway...Django for a second Konami representative! :D Vectorman or NiGHTS for a second Sega character ^^

 

[Ganon4President]

Vaati In Brawl!!!!!!!!

(sigh) PUT VAATI IN SMASH, NINTENDO. I even have a moveset.

Final Smash: Turns in2 the huge scorpion from minish cap and u aim up to 2 huge explosions of darkness. 50% each

Neutral A: 1st it jabs leg and then does a mini dark uppercut. (6-8%) Good 4 setting up other moves that go up.

Up Tilt: Waves his hand while darkness spreads by his hand.(A multi hit move)(14-16)- full hit. Knockback like Ice Climers up tilt. Good for starting up a combo, or keeping 1 going.

Side Tilt: Does hand motion a lot like a ***** slap, but has darkness spearding out about a 4th of Final. (8-9%) Very good 4 at getting people that r long ranged, and 4 spamming.

Down Tilt: Does a low darness sweep that has a high chance 4 tripping.(11-13) Slow animation.

Air Neutral: Does fancy spins in the air with darnness like sword slashes.(15-17) Full Hit

Backward Air: Makes a mini explosion of darkness behind and it pushes him foward. (14-15) High Knock Back. Slow

Foward Air: Slashes foward and under him becuz he makes a spin. Beginning of slash is Spike.

Down Air: Vaccums 4 3 seconds and at end of vaccum large explosion that is a spike. (12-14)
Falling reduces when the vaccum is going

Fowrd Smash: Extends his hand in firce jabbing motion. Sends directly flying at just the side of screen.(16-22)charging

Down smash: Slams his palm in2 ground fiercely and large darkness pillar comes out. Slow but strong. (20-27)charging

Up Smash: Does very strong darness uppercut.(15-20)Charging

Neutral B: Charges up eye and can hold it in. When released, if opponent is in the full blast they will be in world of hurt. Little beam comes that is wide.(6-28)Charging.

Side B: Throws an illusion at u. Medium range and if hit it will stun u 4 1-5 seconds depending on how close. 5% always

Up B: Vaati uses his floating ablities to be able to rocket around 4 a while. Only goes up and goes 3 4ths the hight as sonic's spring. 5-10 dmage

Down B: Makes a barrirer he can walk around in. Lasts up to 7 seconds depending on charge time. Canstill do attacks. Breaks at 30% of damage. Only usable every minute.

 

[Darkwashu]

EVERY franchise needs a bumbling villain.

EVERY franchise.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I dunno, I can feel something, like Pit's gonna get a Wii game. I mean, the graphical update on him was amazing.

Just as long as Factor 5 doesn't get to make it, that would be awesome.

Anyway...Django Simon Belmont for a second Konami representative! :D Vectorman or NiGHTS for a second Sega character ^^

Vectorman hasn't been around in ages, and wasn't even made by SEGA. NiGHTS I could maybe see, but I think there are better choices for SEGA characters.


@Ganon4President: Movesets go in the Make Your Move thread.


@Darkwashu: You are incorrect, sir!

 

[Ganon4President]

ill remember that chief mendez. thx

 

[•Col•]

(sigh) PUT VAATI IN SMASH, NINTENDO. I even have a moveset.

Final Smash: Turns in2 the huge scorpion from minish cap and u aim up to 2 huge explosions of darkness. 50% each

Neutral A: 1st it jabs leg and then does a mini dark uppercut. (6-8%) Good 4 setting up other moves that go up.

Up Tilt: Waves his hand while darkness spreads by his hand.(A multi hit move)(14-16)- full hit. Knockback like Ice Climers up tilt. Good for starting up a combo, or keeping 1 going.

Side Tilt: Does hand motion a lot like a ***** slap, but has darkness spearding out about a 4th of Final. (8-9%) Very good 4 at getting people that r long ranged, and 4 spamming.

Down Tilt: Does a low darness sweep that has a high chance 4 tripping.(11-13) Slow animation.

Air Neutral: Does fancy spins in the air with darnness like sword slashes.(15-17) Full Hit

Backward Air: Makes a mini explosion of darkness behind and it pushes him foward. (14-15) High Knock Back. Slow

Foward Air: Slashes foward and under him becuz he makes a spin. Beginning of slash is Spike.

Down Air: Vaccums 4 3 seconds and at end of vaccum large explosion that is a spike. (12-14)
Falling reduces when the vaccum is going

Fowrd Smash: Extends his hand in firce jabbing motion. Sends directly flying at just the side of screen.(16-22)charging

Down smash: Slams his palm in2 ground fiercely and large darkness pillar comes out. Slow but strong. (20-27)charging

Up Smash: Does very strong darness uppercut.(15-20)Charging

Neutral B: Charges up eye and can hold it in. When released, if opponent is in the full blast they will be in world of hurt. Little beam comes that is wide.(6-28)Charging.

Side B: Throws an illusion at u. Medium range and if hit it will stun u 4 1-5 seconds depending on how close. 5% always

Up B: Vaati uses his floating ablities to be able to rocket around 4 a while. Only goes up and goes 3 4ths the hight as sonic's spring. 5-10 dmage

Down B: Makes a barrirer he can walk around in. Lasts up to 7 seconds depending on charge time. Canstill do attacks. Breaks at 30% of damage. Only usable every minute.

Vaati would be sweet.

However, that moveset you posted is a little broken... xD

 

[ChronoBound]

A new Punch-Out and Sin & Punishment 2 have been announced for the Wii. Hmmmmm....

Here's a link:
http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/10/liveblogging-th.html

 

[Chief Mendez]

A new Punch-Out and Sin & Punishment 2 have been announced for the Wii. Hmmmmm....

Okay, I totally was on top of Punch-Out, but this S&P thing is new to me. Source?

So yeah, Little Mac and (maybe) Saki Amamiya for SSB4!

EDIT - And to get the word out: OH MY GOD

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is a video of the new games:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/index.html#event

Edit: Just watched a video of the new Punch-Out, looks like Little Mac and Glass Joe are back.

Looking at the clip of S&P 2, the hero looks like an older version of Saki's son, or Saki with more futuristic clothing and a hair cut.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Here is a video of the new games:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/index.html#event

Edit: Just watched a video of the new Punch-Out, looks like Little Mac and Glass Joe are back.

Looking at the clip of S&P 2, the hero looks like an older version of Saki's son, or Saki with more futuristic clothing and a hair cut.

HOLY **** KLONOA

...TRACE MEMORY!?

Punch-Out looks like black & Bruised, but still awesome. Little Mac definitely for SSB4.

Yay Echoes of Time.

Sonic and the Black Knight...actually looks pretty cool.

OBORO!!!!

Phantasy Star 0 makes me happy.

Miis on DS!?

Mario RPG 3!?



...My God. I think my head just exploded from all that awesome.

Though S&P 2 wasn't in either of those compilations. Is it somewhere else in that page, or am I missing something?

EDIT - Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is a pic of Punch-Out Wii:

Here is a pic of Sin & Punishment 2: