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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Skyshroud

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LOL GENO. He co-stared in one spinoff game that was released 12 years ago and hasn't been mentioned since. What significance does this character have? Popularity, but Toad also has that + has been in every Mario game + playable in multiple more games.

Toad>Bowser Jr>Petey>Waluigi>Rosalina>Daisy>(Every other Mario character)> Every other Nintendo character including Link's uncle>AND THEN Geno.
Whoa, don't jump to conclusions there. Despite the fact that SMRPG may have been a spinoff of the Mario series, it is still considered to be one of the greatest RPGs, if not games, of all time. The game was simply iconic. It hasn't been mentioned since?!? In case you didn't notice, many gamers have been crying out for years, but never managed to see a true sequel. A second game was planned, but ultimately, the game was cut for Paper Mario. Paper Mario (and its sequels) were all solid RPGs that did very well for Nintendo, but nothing lived up to the pure win of Super Mario RPG. Second, his has appeared since as a cameo in one of the gameboy Mario RPG titles. (think it was Superstar Saga, but don't quote me on that) If you think that Geno has not been mentioned since SMRPG, you are either living in a box or deluding yourself.

Second, the game does not possess a true main character. Character development is a heavy component of RPG games. SMRPG was no different. You really got to see a lot of the different characters and use them. Geno was placed on the same level as Princess Peach and Bowser. Geno received as much character development in that game as Toad has throughout the series. The only reason he has not been developed further is because he seems to share some kind of "co-ownership" with Square Enix. It is Nintendo that has held Geno back, not the gaming community.

Geno has more than just popularity on Toad as well. He has a very viable moveset that isn't just a combination of generic kicks and punches. Geno is a star being that has possessed the form of a scarecrow. As such, he has a variety of moves that can be performed due to his "marionette-like" status. He also has the ability to use various forms of magic. Geno is strongly connected to stars, which give him more move opportunity. Furthermore, he possesses the ability to shoot his hands or fire bullets from his arms. Finally, he carries a cape, which has been shown to have several uses in the Mario series.

Almost all of the games Toad has been playable in are sports titles, with the notable exception of a Super Mario Bros. title. His only defined abilities are the ability to pull vegetables out of the ground, swing sporting equipment, and ride a magic carpet. (which isn't so much of an ability, but it is usable as a move) Unfortunately, many of these moves have already appeared, and the basic Toad would end up a lot like a Peach clone. Sure, a moveset could be created from scratch, (like CF) but Geno already has a moveset oozing with potential.

Finally, Geno has the retro thing going for him. He is in a similar position as Pit right now. They were both major stars in their respective titles. (albeit Pit did not share the spotlight with anyone) Both characters appeared a while ago, and have not made a reappearance since. However, fans on both sides are calling for sequels to the games. Finally, Pit has already made an appearance on the virtual console, where new gamers can see the classic game that we grew up on. SMRPG will undoubtedly appear in the VC at some point due to its extreme popularity and classic recognition.
 

Firus

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..It's an PRG? Really? I always thought it was a platformer. I suppose you can buy items and change into 1 of 4 characters, but other than that it's a platformer through and through. And if Yoshi gets his own series in SBB, then Paper Mario definitely will.
Well, the first two were, anyways...they have turn-based battles and everything. I assume you've only played SPM? If you have, do yourself a favor and get one of the first two. I personally like TTYD better, but I'm not incredibly far in the first one and have beaten TTYD, so that might be why.

smashbot226 said:
A shame Microsoft are a bunch of greedy nerds.
Oh, hardly. Microsoft isn't the company that sold Rare, Nintendo is. Nintendo's the idiots that sold them, it's their fault, not Microsoft.

And Paper Mario is to Mario as Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is to Pokemon. They're both considered Mario/Pokemon but they're still spinoffs. It's a completely different playstyle. Play Super Mario Galaxy and then Paper Mario or TTYD (Not SPM as I get the impression it's very platform-y and not at all RPG-y, which is why I haven't bought it) and tell me they're similar. They've got Mario, that's the only thing they've got in common.
 

BKupa666

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Bowser Jr.>>>Toad

He has more important roles, and could have a much more original moveset that didn't borrow from the spin-offs.
 

SmashBrosMike

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This list does not contain Megaman. Therefore you fail. ^_^

Megaman for SSB4.

-Ter
Megaman sucks balls

To Megaman: **** YOU! YOU PIECE OF ****! YOU ****ING ****! ****ING **** CHAOS! YOU ****ING ****! YOU ****ING SIT IN YOUR TOWER!
 

Big-Cat

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Does anyone think that special moves need to be special again? Most people still think Ness and Lucas, Fox, Falco, and Wolf are clones of each other despite that they otherwise fight differently because of their special moves.
 

Firus

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Whoa, don't jump to conclusions there. Despite the fact that SMRPG may have been a spinoff of the Mario series, it is still considered to be one of the greatest RPGs, if not games, of all time. The game was simply iconic. It hasn't been mentioned since?!? In case you didn't notice, many gamers have been crying out for years, but never managed to see a true sequel. A second game was planned, but ultimately, the game was cut for Paper Mario. Paper Mario (and its sequels) were all solid RPGs that did very well for Nintendo, but nothing lived up to the pure win of Super Mario RPG. Second, his has appeared since as a cameo in one of the gameboy Mario RPG titles. (think it was Superstar Saga, but don't quote me on that) If you think that Geno has not been mentioned since SMRPG, you are either living in a box or deluding yourself.
No offense, but I get the feeling that half the reason SMRPG is so iconic and amazing for some people is simply nostalgia...but I've never played the game (no VC release, I'm not going to get a ROM for the game unless I own it, and it costs a whopping $70 on eBay last time I checked) so I'm not necessarily fit to make that judgment. But I can't believe that nostalgia doesn't make part of that decision for some.
This is exactly why I need to get the game...

Fans crying out for a sequel or whatever does not mean it's been mentioned since. NINTENDO has not mentioned it since except for one Geno apperance, a cameo one at that.
That's like saying that fans screaming for a Super Metroid remake means that a remake has been mentioned. Duh. There's going to be people mentioning it.

Second, the game does not possess a true main character. Character development is a heavy component of RPG games. SMRPG was no different. You really got to see a lot of the different characters and use them. Geno was placed on the same level as Princess Peach and Bowser. Geno received as much character development in that game as Toad has throughout the series. The only reason he has not been developed further is because he seems to share some kind of "co-ownership" with Square Enix. It is Nintendo that has held Geno back, not the gaming community.
It has Mario in the title, Mario is the star. Geno is thus a co-star at best, since he's equal with Peach and Bowser.

And you contradict yourself. You say basically that if Nintendo could get a hold of Geno they'd develop him, but Square Enix owns him so they can't. But then it's them that's holding them back? I'm confused.

Clearly the gaming community hasn't held them back, but believe it or not that doesn't make a difference. The gaming community has screamed for a good Sonic game for quite a while now and they're still giving us Werehog and Sonic with a sword.

And Geno is in fact in a very different position from Pit. Pit didn't share the spotlight with anyone and had his own game, etc. Geno shared the spotlight, and not with just anyone, with Mario. He was a secondary character in a franchise title years ago. The only way I see him getting into Smash is if Sakurai is sick of hearing people asking for him.
 

BKupa666

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And Geno is in fact in a very different position from Pit. Pit didn't share the spotlight with anyone and had his own game, etc. Geno shared the spotlight, and not with just anyone, with Mario. He was a secondary character in a franchise title years ago. The only way I see him getting into Smash is if Sakurai is sick of hearing people asking for him.
I see Geno getting in because when Sakurai chooses characters, he chooses characters that were popular on THE LAST GAME'S poll (Dedede, Wario, Diddy, Pit, etc. from Melee's poll). If SSB4 comes out, he's gonna look at Brawl's poll and think, "Hmmm, let's see, there's Ridley and Geno at the top, let's put them in!" If you look at Melee's poll, he chose Bowser and Peach from the top, but left out Wario and Dedede (who were third and fourth). Although I see Geno's popularity dying down drastically, I definitely see him getting in SSB4, unless Square gets a little selfish with a character they haven't used in over 10 years.

IMO, Geno would get a separate icon from Mario. I know he's only appeared in Mario games, but he's also third party, so I think he would merit his own icon.
 

CJTHeroofTime

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Changes for SSB4
First and foremost-Better online play! Currently, PS and Xbox are dominating Nintendo in the field of online play, mainly because Nintendo is super-family-friendly and is afraid to give kids amazing internet gaming. Solution? Parental Controls. A better online system would increase the game's replay value exponentially.

Stage builder- Had amazing potential, but was ruined with the square-based building system. Many features could have been made into awesome stages if it weren't for the red squares preventing youfrom putting them anywhere...

Characters/Moves- They did a pretty good job incorporating the new characters into the game. I do believe, however, that they messed up big time on Metaknight's Mach Tornado and Pit's Palutena's Arrow. I have always been a proponent for the use of spamming being incorporated into a legitimate strategy, but these moves have nearly changed my mind. Metaknight's Mach Tornado is a rapid succesion of high priority attacks, meaning that itwill penetrate most shielding and block most projectiles and attacks. Unless you are playing as Metaknight or ROB, chances are, you don't have the priority to challenge the Tornado. It's quick usability and reusability rewards users who spam it. In a similar note, if you face Pit on a flat stage like Final Destination, you risk being spammed to death with the arrow. It's incredible speed and stalling hits make it incredibly spammable, even at close range. The makers could fix these issues through some limiting factors (more than decay, which does not hinder these strategies).

I personally don't see a problem with the "clones" in SSBB. I think there are enough subtleties in their playing styles that make them different enough (ie speed, knockback vs damage, fluidity, etc).

I, like many other FE:poR players, was pretty surprised to see that Ike was a tank character, considering he was one of my fastest characters (during both of my playthroughs, so I don't think it was just chance). Personally, I think Ike's moveset and style would have been perfect for Gannondorf, who has almost no reasoning behind his current moveset whatsoever. Ike should have played more like Roy, who was slower than Marth, but not to a ridiculous extent.

Personally, I think Mewtwo should have remained, that is, with some improvements. First of all, Mewtwo was one of the larger characters but was hit like a lighter midweight character, causing him to die more often. If he's such a big target, he should behave like so. Also, get rid of his god-awful Repeat A attack. That took away so many combo oppurtunities and just led to many untimely deaths because it left him off guard for so long. Finally, maybe some slight improvements on his smashes (which actually weren't that terrible).

I don't think Snake needs to be nerfed, I think his moves need to be less awkward. Game & Watch, however, got a little out-of-hand in brawl. And why did they nerf Jigglypuff? Really? Samus and Zero suit should be two separate characters.

As for new characters, I think some Tales of Symphonia characters would be cool. Maybe Louie from Pikmin 2 would be an interesting variation on Olimar (who I believe was an excellent edition to the series). Some Metroid reps would be nice. That's all I can think of right now, anyway.
 

MarthFanatique

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Does anyone think that special moves need to be special again? Most people still think Ness and Lucas, Fox, Falco, and Wolf are clones of each other despite that they otherwise fight differently because of their special moves.
That's because they don't main them. I seconded (sp?) Wolf for a while, and lemme tell you he's not a clone! Lucas is my current second, and I hate using Ness. They're completely different. Now, just to prove your point, I don't use Falco or Fox, but I think their moves are more closely intertwined than those two to Wolf (kinda true, but see what I mean). If you don't use them regularly, you'll think they're clones.

Toon Link and Link are different stories (I know this is off topic but still). They do have the same moveset, it's just that T. Link's dair is a stall 'n fall and his special moves have different properties. I'm side-maining T. Link but I hate playing Link; yet they're clones. That's weird.
 

Big-Cat

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That's because they don't main them. I seconded (sp?) Wolf for a while, and lemme tell you he's not a clone! Lucas is my current second, and I hate using Ness. They're completely different. Now, just to prove your point, I don't use Falco or Fox, but I think their moves are more closely intertwined than those two to Wolf (kinda true, but see what I mean). If you don't use them regularly, you'll think they're clones.

Toon Link and Link are different stories (I know this is off topic but still). They do have the same moveset, it's just that T. Link's dair is a stall 'n fall and his special moves have different properties. I'm side-maining T. Link but I hate playing Link; yet they're clones. That's weird.
Still, I'd like to see B movesets that are not only more faithful, but are as unique as possible. It's not too hard for some characters to do this (Ness, Lucas, DK, Ike, Ganondorf, and more).
 

BKupa666

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Personally, I think Mewtwo should have remained, that is, with some improvements. First of all, Mewtwo was one of the larger characters but was hit like a lighter midweight character, causing him to die more often. If he's such a big target, he should behave like so. Also, get rid of his god-awful Repeat A attack. That took away so many combo oppurtunities and just led to many untimely deaths because it left him off guard for so long. Finally, maybe some slight improvements on his smashes (which actually weren't that terrible).
If Mewtwo gets back, he needs a new side and down B.
 

Skyshroud

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It has Mario in the title, Mario is the star. Geno is thus a co-star at best, since he's equal with Peach and Bowser.

And you contradict yourself. You say basically that if Nintendo could get a hold of Geno they'd develop him, but Square Enix owns him so they can't. But then it's them that's holding them back? I'm confused.

Clearly the gaming community hasn't held them back, but believe it or not that doesn't make a difference. The gaming community has screamed for a good Sonic game for quite a while now and they're still giving us Werehog and Sonic with a sword.
How can you claim that you know who the star is if you've never played the game? Play the game. You'll see what I'm talking about. Geno is as much of the main story as Mario. Mario's "sidekicks" do all of the talking for him, and thus develop the personality of the game.

I said that they have a sort of co-ownership. (it's weird, you have to look it up) Nintendo is holding him back because they won't work with (or pay) Square for the rights to use Geno. This is probably a reason why SMRPG 2 was never made and was ditched for Paper Mario. (among others)

I didn't say the gaming community pushing for new games was going to make a difference. But Ilex was acting as if that everyone just forgot about Legend of the Seven Stars after it was released and we never heard about it again. We cartainly have, and I was trying to point out that it has been MENTIONED, just not ever FULLY responded to.

As far as the game being iconic because of nostalgia, I feel it is sort of mixed. I think now I enjoy the game more because it is nostalgic somewhat because of memories playing the game. However, when I first played it, I considered the game awesome because it was so innovative and original for an RPG at this era. The game was just flat out cool and fun. There isn't really much else I can say; you simply have to play it. The reason the game became so popular to begin with was it's awesomeness. I can't tell you how many hours my brother wasted on that game, and he doesn't even like RPGs. He thinks that the turn based system is generally boring. However, SMRPG added enough too the system that it became ENGAGING. That is something that really makes an RPG for me.
 

ChronoBound

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I would go as far to say that even Dr. Mario would be a more worthy character addition than Geno. If you are scratching your heads as to why I feel this way, here is an excerpt that explains my thought:

The next Mario character I am going to discuss is Dr. Mario. Dr. Mario was a playable character in Melee, and was one of the most controversial additions to that roster (though personally I did not mind him, and actually thought he was kind of cool). Dr. Mario was gain a small, dedicated fanbase to his character thanks to him being tourney viable in Melee, and even better than Mario on the tier list. Dr. Mario was even planned to return as a playable character in Brawl at an earlier point in Brawl’s development. I was originally going to have Dr. Mario return as a character for my Smash Bros. 4 project, however, I took him out at the last minute after talking with various contacts I have working with me on the project, and we have instead relegated his appearance to costume (although if the people who are reading this topic want Doc to get back in on my roster over Paper Mario, I will gladly re-include him especially considering I was able to craft a very unique moveset for the good doctor).

Dr. Mario is also one of Nintendo’s biggest puzzle series, and was actually one of the highest selling games on the original Game Boy and was a very high-selling game on the NES. Dr. Mario saw constant re-releases throughout the years on the SNES and Game Boy Advance. Dr. Mario even received a sequel in the form of Dr. Mario 64. However, it does not end there. Nintendo holds Dr. Mario to be one of their big two puzzles series showed by the release of Nintendo Puzzle Collection (which included remakes of Dr. Mario, Panel de Pon, and Yoshi’s Cookie) and Dr. Mario/Puzzle League. Dr. Mario is also familiar with many casual gamers and non-gamers thanks to the inclusion of Dr. Wario in the original WarioWare Virus Buster (a game very similar to Dr. Mario) which is included in Brain Age 2, which is one of the highest selling Nintendo DS games ever. Also, a new Dr. Mario game was also released a few months ago as one of the launch titles for WiiWare called Dr. Mario Online Rx.

The point being is that Dr. Mario is an important staple to Nintendo’s history with the puzzle-game genre. Dr. Mario has saw many re-releases and new games ever since its original release in 1990. There have been at least 10 releases of Dr. Mario, not including those that have been included in games as secret unlockables (such as in the original WarioWare and Brain Age 2). In this regards, I feel more obliged to include Dr. Mario in a series all his own rather than with the Mario characters. I feel that both the Dr. Mario series and Panel de Pon/Puzzle League series needed playable characters since they represent Nintendo’s puzzle heritage best, and so including Doc and Lip are the best way to represent them. When I was planning on bringing back Doc, I was going to have him grouped under his own series as opposed to being a Mario series representative as he was in Melee. Still, Dr. Mario at the very least deserves to be a costume in Smash Bros. 4 because he is actually important to Nintendo’s history. As for what would most likely happen in a solely Sakurai directed Smash Bros. 4, well, I definitely do not expect Dr. Mario to return as a playable character. However, there may be some hope for him to appear as a costume if Sakurai decides to bring the costume concept to other characters outside of Wario.
 

Roy-Kun

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If Mewtwo gets back, he needs a new side and down B.
Side B: Future Sight

Down B: Psychic, same movement as Disable, but uses hands and does damage this time, chargeable.

Whaddaya think? o.o
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

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^^
Mewtwo's Side B, Psychic.
Psychic acts like Din's fire, except a purple glow is controlled by you, and you move it over an opponent, the purple glow surrounds them, and enables you to throw them from a distance. Press A to attack :]

Down B, Future Sight.
... You know what Ima just find my Mewtwo special move set and post it here so I dont' hve to expain...
 

Skyshroud

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The point being is that Dr. Mario is an important staple to Nintendo’s history with the puzzle-game genre. Dr. Mario has saw many re-releases and new games ever since its original release in 1990. There have been at least 10 releases of Dr. Mario, not including those that have been included in games as secret unlockables (such as in the original WarioWare and Brain Age 2). In this regards, I feel more obliged to include Dr. Mario in a series all his own rather than with the Mario characters. I feel that both the Dr. Mario series and Panel de Pon/Puzzle League series needed playable characters since they represent Nintendo’s puzzle heritage best, and so including Doc and Lip are the best way to represent them. When I was planning on bringing back Doc, I was going to have him grouped under his own series as opposed to being a Mario series representative as he was in Melee. Still, Dr. Mario at the very least deserves to be a costume in Smash Bros. 4 because he is actually important to Nintendo’s history. As for what would most likely happen in a solely Sakurai directed Smash Bros. 4, well, I definitely do not expect Dr. Mario to return as a playable character. However, there may be some hope for him to appear as a costume if Sakurai decides to bring the costume concept to other characters outside of Wario.
I'll agree here that there seems to be no representation for any Nintendo puzzle games. (aside from Yoshi, who is only loosely related) I have no qualms with Doctor Mario being in the game, especially at the very least a costume. The problem with Doctor Mario is differentiating him enough to make him different from Mario. I think this is why most people do not support him. The issue is, a large amount of work is needed to make Doc feel like a separate character, but in many people's minds, he is still Mario. Therefore, people feel like the spent a lot of work adding two versions of the same character, regardless of what Dr. Mario represents. I think that the Doc should be relegated to a costume, while a different puzzle character represents the genre. This way, we get the representation that puzzle fans desire, with the uniqueness and variety that everyone desires in the game.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

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Scratch that about Shadow.
I'm going to create a moveset for none other than...
MEWTWO
~moveset~

BV--Future Sight
--This move sorta acts like Snake's down special, in that it is activatd by once again pressing B and down in combination. However, when Mewtwo uses this move the first time, it is set. Within the next fifteen seconds or so, randomly, a pillar of blue-purplish light will zoom at the target nearest Mewtwo when he activated the move. The light zooms FROM Mewtwo to above his opponent, and sorta resembles Lucario'sforce palm, but vertical instead of horizontal. This move can be used for spiking, but is, of course, unpredictable. However the unpradictability can catch your opponent of guard and will potentially protect Mewtwo from being comboed/juggled/chaingrabbed for too long. Future Sight moves at a decent speed, swiftly attacking. Mewtwo, unlike Snake, does NOT have the ability to activate this attack at will. Future Sight does 15% damage, and the blast sends opponents upward and outward from it. This has the potential to K.O. at high damage (around high 90's lower 100's).

B>--Psychic
--This move acts similar to Din's Fire, Zelda's side special. Mewtwo controls a purple aura similar-ish to that of Tabuu's 'box' he grabs you with. Once you move the aura over a target, release B to capture then in it. Mewtwo can then freely move the hapless victim in any way he wants. This acts like a ranged grab. If you press B, the victim will flinch, and take 3% damage every time you do so. You then move the control stick to control where you want the victim to go. You can slam them into walls or other opponents for heavy damage (around 18 if you slam then hard enough). Mewtwo can only control then for a short time though, so K.O.'ing with this technique isn't handed to you. Psychic does 3%-22 % damage, 3% only if you attack them once with B and then allow them to struggle free.
Note: If Mewtwo is attacked during this, the psychic blast acts like lucas's/ness' PK thunder, and will continue to travel a short distants on it's own before popping. Like a regular grab, opponents can squirm free of MEwtwo's mental grasp.

B^--Teleport
--As in melee, Mewtwo quickly teleports to safety. However this time around he has less lag when recovering from it, and now for the twist. If you arebasically within 'resting' distance with Jigglypuff, when Mewtwo uses Teleport--He takes you with him....! Everything appears parallel to him just as they were before he teleported, but Mewtwo is able to ATTACK coming out of a teleport. Therefore he leaves his oppnent potentially vulnerable. Mewtwo's attack, like Meta knight's, is a special one reserved for this move, but covers his whole body, back and front, instead of just meta's front. The attack does 19-24 % damage.

Neutral B--Light Screen
--Is basically the same as Fox's reflecter, but extends in front of Mewtwo-You are able to move it around if you hold B. This move protects from all attacks Fox shields him from, as well as standard weak attacks, like Pit's shield. The only problem is that Light Screen can be broken with a charged smash attack and then a half-charged one (based of Mario's stregth), and diminishes naturally over time. Mewtwo also has a small ammount of lag when surrendering this move, but over all it fairs decently against fighters like ROB who depend on projectiles. Mewtwo's Light Screen also kills thrown Pikmin, so Mewtwo basically owns Olimar with this move (his smsh's are thrown pikmin as well :/). Light Screen does 0%, but inflicts slightly more damage on opponent than the initial projectile.

edit: I'll do the others tomorrow I'm too tired to continue on right now :/ But opinions anyone??
Yep, I quoted myself from quite a while back :].
Edits to this moveset have been made since then. But just showing what I think would make mewtwo pawnsome!
 

MarthFanatique

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I would give Mewtwo these moves...

Neutral B--Shadow Ball. Same as Melee. Think about it...if Mewtwo is back, his fans are pretty much expecting this move to return.

Up B--Teleport. Same as Melee, just has a little more distance than it did in Melee.

Down B--Future Sight. It's a counter move (like Marth/Roy/Ike/Lucario/Peach). If Mewtwo's going to return, he must have a move that pretty much says to his opponent, "Nice try b*tch, but that sh*t won't work on me!" He's bad*ss, isn't he? Give him a bad*ss move.

Side B--Anything but confusion! The Din's Fire-esque move previously posted sounds okay. Just as long as it's not undodgable or in any form broken *cough whorenado cough*.
 

Knyaguy

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Scratch that about Shadow.
I'm going to create a moveset for none other than...
MEWTWO
~moveset~

BV--Future Sight
--This move sorta acts like Snake's down special, in that it is activatd by once again pressing B and down in combination. However, when Mewtwo uses this move the first time, it is set. Within the next fifteen seconds or so, randomly, a pillar of blue-purplish light will zoom at the target nearest Mewtwo when he activated the move. The light zooms FROM Mewtwo to above his opponent, and sorta resembles Lucario'sforce palm, but vertical instead of horizontal. This move can be used for spiking, but is, of course, unpredictable. However the unpradictability can catch your opponent of guard and will potentially protect Mewtwo from being comboed/juggled/chaingrabbed for too long. Future Sight moves at a decent speed, swiftly attacking. Mewtwo, unlike Snake, does NOT have the ability to activate this attack at will. Future Sight does 15% damage, and the blast sends opponents upward and outward from it. This has the potential to K.O. at high damage (around high 90's lower 100's).
I wouldn't mind this... Its just like snakes C4 but luigified
B>--Psychic
--This move acts similar to Din's Fire, Zelda's side special. Mewtwo controls a purple aura similar-ish to that of Tabuu's 'box' he grabs you with. Once you move the aura over a target, release B to capture then in it. Mewtwo can then freely move the hapless victim in any way he wants. This acts like a ranged grab. If you press B, the victim will flinch, and take 3% damage every time you do so. You then move the control stick to control where you want the victim to go. You can slam them into walls or other opponents for heavy damage (around 18 if you slam then hard enough). Mewtwo can only control then for a short time though, so K.O.'ing with this technique isn't handed to you. Psychic does 3%-22 % damage, 3% only if you attack them once with B and then allow them to struggle free.
Note: If Mewtwo is attacked during this, the psychic blast acts like lucas's/ness' PK thunder, and will continue to travel a short distants on it's own before popping. Like a regular grab, opponents can squirm free of MEwtwo's mental grasp.
What if you could drop them?
B^--Teleport
--As in melee, Mewtwo quickly teleports to safety. However this time around he has less lag when recovering from it, and now for the twist. If you arebasically within 'resting' distance with Jigglypuff, when Mewtwo uses Teleport--He takes you with him....! Everything appears parallel to him just as they were before he teleported, but Mewtwo is able to ATTACK coming out of a teleport. Therefore he leaves his oppnent potentially vulnerable. Mewtwo's attack, like Meta knight's, is a special one reserved for this move, but covers his whole body, back and front, instead of just meta's front. The attack does 19-24 % damage.
Good idea but a tad too strong
Neutral B--Light Screen
--Is basically the same as Fox's reflecter, but extends in front of Mewtwo-You are able to move it around if you hold B. This move protects from all attacks Fox shields him from, as well as standard weak attacks, like Pit's shield. The only problem is that Light Screen can be broken with a charged smash attack and then a half-charged one (based of Mario's stregth), and diminishes naturally over time. Mewtwo also has a small ammount of lag when surrendering this move, but over all it fairs decently against fighters like ROB who depend on projectiles. Mewtwo's Light Screen also kills thrown Pikmin, so Mewtwo basically owns Olimar with this move (his smsh's are thrown pikmin as well :/). Light Screen does 0%, but inflicts slightly more damage on opponent than the initial projectile.

edit: I'll do the others tomorrow I'm too tired to continue on right now :/ But opinions anyone??
Yeah, this idea was thrown around for a while but no one really got it to work but you did!
 

Darky Dee

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I think that the Doc should be relegated to a costume, while a different puzzle character represents the genre. This way, we get the representation that puzzle fans desire, with the uniqueness and variety that everyone desires in the game.
Couldn't agree more-- but then again we still have Link and Toon Link. Despite they're realistically from two split time lines, it's still Link. I would have preferred someone more original, like Midna(?).

A revamped Mewtwo would be nice. I always thought of getting some new feature like Samus/ZZS with his armor and what not would be cool. That's quite a bit of Pokemon characters though, but if he is going to be in the game, they should exaggerate his psychic powers even more through is moves. Like--

B Specials
Special: Shadow Ball- chargeable projectile again but with homes in on closest opponent.

Smash Special: Kenisis- toss opponents in within a certain diameter away from him.

Down Special: Barrier- a bigger iteration of Fox's Reflector, but pushes opponents away during first few frames like Ness' PK Magnet.

Up Special: Teleport- like before but acts like multiple jumps (5?) now like R.O.B's except has invincible frames when not visible. B-Stickers would have lots of fun using this as mind games while on land.

Standard Moves
Normal-
Neutral Attack: jabs with a stun effect and knocks opponents far like Ganondorf.
Dast Attack: runs forming a barrier in front of him, pushing opponents away. (Light Screen)
Strong Side: backhands opponent.
Strong Up: like Zelda's but with "darkness" effect.
Strong Down: sweep kick with both legs.

Smash-
Side Smash: explosion with darkness effect. (Dark Impulse)
Down Smash: swings tail all around him a few times like Peach. (Tail Whip)
Up Smash: Large dark explosion overhead with a lot of reach.

(read LUVTOY77's after, I like your moveset but with a few changes in mind for mine)
 

Tedius Zanarukando

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One other thing is that Lyn's moveset is in the Brawl game code, as proven in the Debug Menu. If Star Fox or F-Zero can get four characters, then Fire Emblem can too. I would want Ayra (a random FE character) if Lip makes it in. I have written a moveset for Ayra before, and I will do that later. Also, it is too early to call how many representatives a franchise could receive in SSB4. Downloadable content will most likely come, despite darkserenade's comments. Sakurai has said that he does not want SSB4 to be merely a sequel with more characters and modes. Like you have seen Snake in Brawl for the first time, it is expected that SSB4 may not be according to your predictions on this thread. Thus, expect some surprises.

According to some of the posts in this thread, it looks like SSB4 will be Brawl all over again in my decision.
 

flyinfilipino

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Well, I'm bored so I'll just throw this out there: behold, a Krystal moveset.

Krystal
(Starfox Adventures/Assault/Command)

Brief Description: Some of Krystal's staff moves are taken straight from StarFox Adventures (let's just say that she and Fox trained together). Obviously, her staff's special abilities come from that game as well. I've tried to give her a little bit of flair as well to differentiate her from the other weapon users. Krystal should be a fun character to use, whether you know who she or not, and despite whatever you think she represents.

Krystal is about the same size as the other StarFox characters. She has average jumping height and weight, and is slightly quick, but not as fast as Fox. Her default costume is a futuristic (and kid-friendly) version of her Adventures outfit and is mainly various shades of blue and black. Her outfit covers her whole body, but she still wears the loincloth thing. Her staff looks like it always did. Her idle stance has her holding her staff with both hands, battle ready. Sometimes she relaxes and fixes her hair with one hand or looks around with her eyes.

Standard Attacks

Standard A: Tapping A results in a very quick staff strike, tapping twice gives two strikes. Simple enough.

Standard Combo: Tapping A three times causes the tips of Krystal's staff to glow light blue as she twirls it around both her sides once. Your opponent can get caught in the attack for a few consecutive hits. Also, this attack reflects projectiles.

Dash Attack: Krystal does a running, sideways flip kick similar to her dodge in Assault. It's two hits but doesn't do too much knockback.

Strong Attacks​

Forward Tilit: A vertical, downward strike, like the basic strike in Adventures. Not too quick, but it knocks your opponent to the ground. If used at the edge, it will send them on a downward angled trajectory.

Down Tilt: A low sweep kick that sends opponents flying upwards a little. Good set up for some combos.

Up Tilt: An overhead slash attack. Pretty basic, good for juggling.

Smash Attacks​

Forward Smash: Krystal charges her staff and then rams it straight-forward like a spear. Good damage and knockback, and if you hit with the glowing tip sweetspot, it'll send your opponent flying straight forward. This is a finishing move in Adventures.

Down Smash: Krystal lifts her staff into the air, then strikes the ground, causing a small blue shockwave that sends opponents upward.

Up Smash: Krystal thrusts her staff upwards and a small blue explosion appears at the tip. Sends opponents straight up if you hit with the very tip.

Aerial Attacks​

Neutral Air: Krystal somersaults in the air with her staff extended. A fast attack that does a few consecutive hits.

Forward Air: A vertical staff slash that sends opponents flying forward.

Back Air: Krystal rotates and does a horizontal staff swing behind her. Very good damage and knockback, but a little slow.

Up Air: Krystal twirls her staff overhead. Does a few consecutive hits, then sends the opponent flying.

Down Air: Krystal goes straight down with her staff extended below her. Knocks opponents away but has some landing lag.

Grab and Throws

Grab Attack: Krystal grabs with her free hand and knees the opponent as an attack.

Forward Throw: She pushes the opponent, then roundhouse kicks them forward.

Back Throw: She grabs the opponent, gets on her back, then kicks them with both feet behind her.

Up Throw: She kicks the opponent upwards then uses her staff as a drill, which catches them then sends them flying upwards.

Down Throw: Krystal jumps and flips in midair, then brings her staff crashing down on the grounded opponent, which pops them up in the air.

Special Attacks!!!

B: Fire Blaster - Straight from Adventures, Krystal fires a glowing red orb forward from the tip of her staff. It hits with a small explosion. Not too much knockback or speed, but does good damage.

Side-B: Ice Blaster - Also straight from Adventures, Krystal fires a stream of blue energy from the tip of her staff. The attack lasts for about 3 seconds, and can trap opponents and freeze them temporarily.

Down-B: Ground Quake - Yet again, straight from Adventures. Krystal lifts into the air and brings her staff crashing down, loosing a tall, blue shockwave that moves outwards on both sides. This attack is slow, but very powerful, and can be charged. However, it fails in midair.

Up-B: Rocket Boost - Yeah, straight from Adventures. Krystal's staff glows blue and fires in an upward direction, taking Krystal with it. It takes a little while to start up, so you can angle it slightly. Opponents can be damaged if Krystal comes into contact with them.

FINAL SMASH: Staff Release - This is an original idea. Krystal holds her staff overhead as her eyes glow purple and shouts "Now I'll show you what I can do!" Waves of violet psychic energy emanate from Krystal and her staff and catch and damage nearby opponents. Then, there's an orange flash as opponents suddenly catch on fire. A blue flash appears, and opponents freeze temporarily. Finally, Krystal performs a souped-up version of the Ground Quake which sends out a large red shocwave on both sides to send opponents flying away, hopefully to their doom. Very flashy.

Other

Taunts:

Up - Krystal flicks her hair back . "Here I go!"

Side - Krystal does some fancy staff twirling. "Try me!"

Down - Krystal stretches her arms out on both sides, facing the screen. She closes her eyes and glows slightly blue. "I'm sensing your weakness."

Victory Poses:

1) Krystal leans toward the screen with a hand on her leg and the other hand wagging a finger. "You're not ready yet!"

2) Krystal twirls her staff and resheaths it behind her back. "Not a bad fight."

3) Krystal thrusts her spear forward, then twirls it around as she steps back, and ends standing with her staff held at her side. "Furry my @$$."

Defeat Pose: Krystal stands with her staff under her arm and claps.

Costumes:
Default (dark blue)
Red
Black
Yellow
Green
Pink
Light Blue


Yep, that's that. I can talk about a stage, potential music, and Snake's codec conversation about her if anyone cares.
 

flyinfilipino

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If Star Fox or F-Zero can get four characters, then Fire Emblem can too. Also, it is too early to call how many representatives a franchise could receive in SSB4.

According to some of the posts in this thread, it looks like SSB4 will be Brawl all over again in my decision.
What? You are not making any sense.

EDIT: Ack, sorry, double post.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Thanks for the moveset support all....

Yea for Future Sight, a C4-like move was in mind, but still different. It would work nicely since it's randomized and not real predictable for your opponent, but not exactly real reliable for you since you can't time it in any way, since you don't have any idea when it will strike..

For Psychic, it controls similar to Din's fire, and as I thought about it more, I think it'd be like a distance-grab. It IS dodgable, and if you get caught in it, you can wriggle away just like any grab. Tapping A will make the victim flinch as well as take 3or 4 damage, and then you can lob them into the air or slam them against the ground. Slamming them into the ground/other opponent will rack up the most damage..

edit: Light Screen would kill side special thrown pikmin, but not smash attacks. Also, if you let Light Screen get destroyed/diminish, I'm playing with the notion of the shield-breaking effect coming into play. I think that would prevent mewtwo from just hiding behind Light Screen from every attack, and would balance him out more. What do you all think?

and about psychic--I never thought about this: You throw opponent off arena, then capture them in another psychic and continue to edge guard like that, or dropping like someone said on the last page--perhaps if the psychic extends to far from mewtwo, he can't throw them, but only pummel them by tapping A? Or allow him to throw them, but if they wiggle free, they have all three jumps. as in if they jump out of mewtwo's psychic grasp, then can THEN double jump and use their special.. sound reasonable?
 

flyinfilipino

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Haha.

You DO know Sakurai is probably gonna clone her, right>
No, do you?

Look at it this way, if Krystal and these other less-than-main characters (in their franchises, at least) are going to be the frontrunners for the next game's roster, they've got to be a little more unique.

EDIT: Dang, Tedius, do you ever get everything you want to say in your first post?
 

Tedius Zanarukando

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As my least favorite Nintendo character, Lip being playable in SSB4, whether as a built-in or downloadable character, will guarantee me rejecting SSB4, thus being Brawl all over again. Only Ayra from FE4 can override that, though her chances are believed to be slim by some fans. If I had to reject SSB4 then SSB5, I will get angry at Nintendo.
 

Darky Dee

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I know it for a FACT.

Look, if he can clone Ganondorf, the Lord of All Evil, Wielder of Dark Magic and a giant blade, with Captain Falcon of ALL people, then he'll clone Krystal with Fox.
But there are already two supposed clones of Fox. I can't see there being a third. LANDMASTER~
 

Thrillhouse-vh.

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Does anyone think that special moves need to be special again? Most people still think Ness and Lucas, Fox, Falco, and Wolf are clones of each other despite that they otherwise fight differently because of their special moves.
Semi-clones need to go. I played Ganondorf a lot in Melee. My records show three times as much time as Ganon than Falcon. Many people would've been happy if he was still a Falcon clone. Same with Falco, etc.. But that's not the point. The point is effort and originality. Sakurai just lost it with Brawl, especially when he said he was trying to get rid of clones.

Luigi is the only one I can forgive because his moveset should be a parody of Mario, sorta like Dan to Ryu.
 

Ilex

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Regarding the Krystal moveset:

It relies on the staff too much. It could use some more diversity other than just various swings and stabs of the staff. It reminds me of Marth's bland moveset :/
 

majora_787

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Semi-clones need to go. I played Ganondorf a lot in Melee. My records show three times as much time as Ganon than Falcon. Many people would've been happy if he was still a Falcon clone. Same with Falco, etc.. But that's not the point. The point is effort and originality. Sakurai just lost it with Brawl, especially when he said he was trying to get rid of clones.

Luigi is the only one I can forgive because his moveset should be a parody of Mario, sorta like Dan to Ryu.
SEMI clones need to go?

Lucas
Lucario according to several noobs
Falco *Maybe*
Wolf *Deffinate*
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Luigi

They all gotta go.

But that's a problem because of their popularity and the increase of villains in brawl.

Except Toon Link, he has no excuse.

@Krystal debate: Krystal used the staff in ONE game, SFA. The other two games Krystal was in, the NEW ones, she used guns and arwings and all sorts of things. She could end up using a landmaster. She will NOT use her staff. She will get a blaster, or something close to it.

At the best she will be a sub clone of a sub clone. At the worst, she becomes a Captain Falcon clone.
 

flyinfilipino

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Regarding the Krystal moveset:

It relies on the staff too much. It could use some more diversity other than just various swings and stabs of the staff. It reminds me of Marth's bland moveset :/
Yeah, I didn't really polish it much. It could use a lot more flair. Thanks for the response though!
 

Thrillhouse-vh.

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SEMI clones need to go?

Lucas
Lucario according to several noobs
Falco *Maybe*
Wolf *Deffinate*
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Luigi

They all gotta go.
I don't mean go out of the GAME entirely, except for Lucario who sucks and deserves public execution, just re-work them. Toon Link had NO excuse to be a clone with all the tools from Wind Waker. Luigi I can forgive if he's a Dan Habiki-like comic relief fighter who is actually good(and he's Luigi, he can be a clone if he wants). Lucas also had NO excuse. Falco or Wolf, not both. I like Ganondorf in Melee, but that isn't the point. His Forward B was a great change to differentiate himself from Falcon entirely. It's a shame Sakurai stopped there.

How can you claim that you know who the star is if you've never played the game? Play the game. You'll see what I'm talking about. Geno is as much of the main story as Mario. Mario's "sidekicks" do all of the talking for him, and thus develop the personality of the game.
Although my favorite SNES RPG, I have to admit that while there are many main characters that are essential to the plot, Geno being of the most important over all reconnecting Star Road and being the Sage-like member of the group, Mario is the star. There really is no denying that. Geno is a main character, but not the star (yet he is, literally, a star. How ironic.).

I said that they have a sort of co-ownership. (it's weird, you have to look it up) Nintendo is holding him back because they won't work with (or pay) Square for the rights to use Geno. This is probably a reason why SMRPG 2 was never made and was ditched for Paper Mario. (among others)
SQUARE ENIX OWNS GENO. THAT IS A FACT. He is not "2nd and a half party" or "co-owned," Square Enix owns him. Unless Nintendo buys all the rights to Square Enix made Mario characters or get permission, they cannot use Geno. It's a shame. Some justice was dealt out years later when Square Enix made Kingdom Hearts (Disney would only go through if they got rights to characters made for the game, Sora, etc.).

As far as the game being iconic because of nostalgia, I feel it is sort of mixed. I think now I enjoy the game more because it is nostalgic somewhat because of memories playing the game. However, when I first played it, I considered the game awesome because it was so innovative and original for an RPG at this era. The game was just flat out cool and fun. There isn't really much else I can say; you simply have to play it. The reason the game became so popular to begin with was it's awesomeness. I can't tell you how many hours my brother wasted on that game, and he doesn't even like RPGs. He thinks that the turn based system is generally boring. However, SMRPG added enough too the system that it became ENGAGING. That is something that really makes an RPG for me.
Super Mario RPG is a well-crafted game. Fun battle system, great new characters, good use of Nintendo characters, great world and, for a Mario game, great story that actually leads into depth of characters. The platforming was also as good as any Mario game. Let's not forget the music. Some of the best any Mario game has ever offered, if not just ANY game. If playing quality RPG's like this is living in nostalgia, then can you really blame me? I have thee Wii, Brawl, Galaxy, MP 3, Twilight Princess, I've played Nintendo's future, and god ****, does it suck.
 

majora_787

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Oh, you meant new moveset. Then remove Lucario from that list, he gets a list of his own.

Also, I'd rather see Geno in the game instead of Krystal. Who could he POSSIBLY be made into a clone out of?
 

smashbot226

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Waiting for you to slip up.
SEMI clones need to go?

Lucas
Lucario according to several noobs
Falco *Maybe*
Wolf *Deffinate*
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Luigi

They all gotta go.

But that's a problem because of their popularity and the increase of villains in brawl.

Except Toon Link, he has no excuse.

@Krystal debate: Krystal used the staff in ONE game, SFA. The other two games Krystal was in, the NEW ones, she used guns and arwings and all sorts of things. She could end up using a landmaster. She will NOT use her staff. She will get a blaster, or something close to it.

At the best she will be a sub clone of a sub clone. At the worst, she becomes a Captain Falcon clone.
1. Ahaha, Toon Link is the only REAL clone in the game. Not even Luigified, only two or three moves TRULY differing from Link's moveset.

2. Wolf ain't going, Falco might, Lucario WILL go, Luigi is staying FOREVER thankfully, and Ganondorf is staying. Lucas MIGHT be a coin flip.

3. I C WUT U DID TAHR. Captain Falcon clone. lol. She'd DEFINITELY be a clone of Fox, though. I'd prefer to see Leon.
 

ChronoBound

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Oh, you meant new moveset. Then remove Lucario from that list, he gets a list of his own.

Also, I'd rather see Geno in the game instead of Krystal. Who could he POSSIBLY be made into a clone out of?
I rather see Geno simply because he was in a GOOD game.
 
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