[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Spire]

And Toad because he is awesome and has been there since the beginning and is next in line for significance to the series.

I'll drink to that.

 

[ChronoBound]

On the subject of Toad, here is the analysis I wrote for him in my Smash 4 project:

Toad: The next character that I will discuss is Toad. First off, I am not much of a Toad fan, I kind of like him, though I prefer Paper Mario over him. However, I can’t help but feel sorry for the little guy. He has progressively been having less and less roles in games, and the original “The Toad” seems to be gone, with the last appearance of him being Super Mario RPG, the Mario Kart games, or Luigi’s Mansion (was it all the same Toad in that game?). He was one of the original four main protagonists of Mario series, especially with Super Mario Bros. 2.

Toad was also with the rest of the Mario gang in the early spinoffs such as Super Mario Kart and Mario’s Tennis (which was a Mario Tennis game for the Virtual Boy). Toad was the hero of one of my favorite puzzle games ever, Wario’s Woods (I have both the NES and SNES versions of the game, however, my NES copy is in Animal Crossing). Toad had his own GAME before Luigi or Peach did. He also had a major role in Super Mario RPG, and was constantly helping you throughout your quest, and even was brave enough to bust through Smithy’s Factory by his lonesome to give Mario and his buddies some last minute supplies. Toad was also very good in Super Mario Bros. 2, and was extremely useful for the sand-digging levels. Basically back in the old days, Toad was made of win and awesome.

However, starting with Super Mario 64, “The Toad” started to disappear, and was simply made more as a generic sort of character to describe the entire race, with no “The Toad” in sight. Toad would host the Mario Party games, and continue to join the rest of the Mario cast in the sports spinoffs and Kart games. In Tennis, he would start to get that super-annoying croaky voice, which would get progressively worse as the years went by. Toads were also made into universal cowards and weaklings, a far cry from the Toad that was in Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario’s Woods, and Super Mario RPG. It seemed as though the Toad from those games has long been forgotten, which is why characters such as Paper Mario, Bowser Jr., and even the one shot Geno have all surpassed him in popularity. Its for this reason, that I sadly cannot see Toad being added to the next Smash Bros., or possibly any future Smash Bros. That being said, Toad was at one point on my roster, and I even made a moveset for him before I decided to axe him.

 

[smashbot226]

I'll drink to that.

Drink battery acid, won't you?

Why Toad?

WHAT POSSIBLE MOVESET COULD YOU HAVE FOR A MUSHROOM-HEAD, BRAIN DEAD ROYAL RETAINER WHO CAN'T EVEN DO HIS JOB RIGHT THIRTY BILLION TIMES?

I'll say Paper Mario and Bowser Jr for SSB4.

F*ck Geno. Way too many deserving Mario characters than him.

As well as third party characters.

I remember a mod talking about Geno's special class as a "Second Party," being a third party Mario rep.

I thought you Smash Experts were smart!

 

[Ilex]

Drink battery acid, won't you?

Why Toad?

WHAT POSSIBLE MOVESET COULD YOU HAVE FOR A MUSHROOM-HEAD, BRAIN DEAD ROYAL RETAINER WHO CAN'T EVEN DO HIS JOB RIGHT THIRTY BILLION TIMES?!

TOAD

Stats
Power: 7/10
Weight: 1/10
Speed: 8/10
Recovery: 5/10
Range: 4/10​

Neutral : Toad Spore. It works exactly like it did with Peach, only Toad is now solo!
UpB: Magical flying carpet. Hang with me here and let me explain. This is taken from Super Mario Bros 2 where Toad could hop on a carpet and it would transport him in the air. Please watch 1:05-1:12. This move would give similar range as DK's spin. He wouldn't hold the...thing on his head and the hitbox is on the carpet. (~12%)
SideB: Fire Meteor. This move originates as Toad's skillshot in Mario Strikers Charged. What he does is kick a flaming soccer ball as a projectile (Not unlike what every character can do in Brawl) and it may be aimed in a similar way to Egg Toss. Oh, and he can charge it.
After the soccer ball has been kicked it lays on the field and vanishes after about 10 seconds if not used. Anyone may kick a soccer ball lying on the field but only Toad can aim it and only Toad's kicks will produce the flaming effect. Toad may have 2 on the field at a time. (8% uncharged, 16% charged, 5% if from another character ).
DownB: Sand haul. In SMB2 Toad can dig rapidly fast and lifts up huge amounts of earth. To see this please go to the aforementioned video and watch 3:53-4:00.
In SSB4 Toad heaves up an armload of sand and throws it above his head. The dirt then falls on all sides of him, damaging those who get too close. This moves has large startup lag but makes up for it in its rather large hitbox. (14%)

Final Smash: Toad stampede. Toad pulls out a referee's whistle and blows loudly. Suddenly, Toads starts spawning where he is standing and charge in the direction he is facing. The mushroom people will just run across the platform and once they reach the ledge, they'll spill off to their death or tumble onto another platform where they will continue to charge in the same direction.
This move doesn't damage opponents but rather pushes them along with the riot of Toads at about half the speed of Jungle Japes' current. Once the opponent falls of the ledge they're pretty much dragged to their doom from the mass of Toads falling on them. This move lasts for about 15 seconds.

 

[ChronoBound]

Drink battery acid, won't you?

Why Toad?

WHAT POSSIBLE MOVESET COULD YOU HAVE FOR A MUSHROOM-HEAD, BRAIN DEAD ROYAL RETAINER WHO CAN'T EVEN DO HIS JOB RIGHT THIRTY BILLION TIMES?

I'll say Paper Mario and Bowser Jr for SSB4.

F*ck Geno. Way too many deserving Mario characters than him.

As well as third party characters.

I remember a mod talking about Geno's special class as a "Second Party," being a third party Mario rep.

I thought you Smash Experts were smart!

Geno is definitely third-party as at the end of Mario & Luigi:SSS it mentions that the rights to the character Geno are owned by Square-Enix, which would make him a third-party character.

 

[smashbot226]

Fine, so Toad has a passable moveset.

the point that he has been with the series since the very beginning proves something; but you're also forgetting what minor of a role he plays as well throughout
THE ENTIRE SERIES

 

[Ilex]

Fine, so Toad has a passable moveset.

the point that he has been with the series since the very beginning proves something; but you're also forgetting what minor of a role he plays as well throughout
THE ENTIRE SERIES

He's had his fair share of lead roles, notably Wario Woods and Super Mario Bros 2.

 

[Darkwashu]

Fine, so Toad has a passable moveset.

the point that he has been with the series since the very beginning proves something; but you're also forgetting what minor of a role he plays as well throughout
THE ENTIRE SERIES

True,but hes also in many of the major games,with his "race" severing as a major role.(Original Paper Mario)

Also,every character from Mario Kart 64 is in Brawl,except..I find that funny.
And Toad is playable in Super Mario Bros. 2 as a major,and Warios Woods.

The standard is different for third-party characters. Snake only got in due to Kojima's connections to Sakurai. Sonic was in due to OVERWHELMING demand by the Western Smash Bros. fanbase. Since Crono does not has overwhelming demand, and since there are probably no connections, he will be unable to get in. Really, the only two third-party characters that I think have a shot at getting in Smash Bros. 4 are Mega Man and Geno (and quite frankly there are more deserving Mario characters than him).

Didnt Sakurai say Snake got in because Kojima practically begged him?

Paper Mario,Bowser Jr and MAYBE Daisy are the only mario characters who need in brawl.
Is it really all about who and overwhelming demand?
Who honestly expected Snake in SSBB?
And who honestly wanted ROB...
Also,Toads voice in MK64 is awesome,its his personality...a happy,upbeat boy.

 

[ChronoBound]

True,but hes also in many of the major games,with his "race" severing as a major role.(Original Paper Mario)

Didnt Sakurai say Snake got in because Kojima practically begged him?

Paper Mario,Bowser Jr and MAYBE Daisy are the only mario characters who need in brawl.
Is it really all about who and overwhelming demand?
Who honestly expected Snake in SSBB?
And who honestly wanted ROB...

Like I said, it was connections that got Snake in. Hardly anyone wanted Snake.

Also, Daisy is not important, and she will probably be nothing more than a pallette swap for Peach. The most she can hope for is becoming an alt-costume with her own voice effects.

As for ROB, he fits the position as the WTF retro character. ROB also helped make North American retailers stock the NES.

Snake on the otherhand did nothing to deserve being in a series dedicated to Nintendo heritage.

 

[smashbot226]

True,but hes also in many of the major games,with his "race" severing as a major role.(Original Paper Mario)

Also,every character from Mario Kart 64 is in Brawl,except..I find that funny.

:/ You're sort of proving my point.

And Toad is playable in Super Mario Bros. 2 as a major,and Warios Woods.

I've never played Wario's Woods; elaborate please?

Didnt Sakurai say Snake got in because Kojima practically begged him?

I don't think Miyamoto is on his knees begging for Toad to be put in.

Paper Mario,Bowser Jr and MAYBE Daisy are the only mario characters who need in brawl.
Is it really all about who and overwhelming demand?
SONIC'S THE NAME, FANSERVICE IS HIS GAME.
Who honestly expected Snake in SSBB?
Hideo did.
And who honestly wanted ROB...
*Raises hand*
Also,Toads voice in MK64 is awesome,its his personality...a happy,upbeat boy.

I doubt his voice actor will be GOOD. Or even DECENT.

 

[Darkwashu]

Like I said, it was connections that got Snake in. Hardly anyone wanted Snake.

Also, Daisy is not important, and she will probably be nothing more than a pallette swap for Peach. The most she can hope for is becoming an alt-costume with her own voice effects.

As for ROB, he fits the position as the WTF retro character. ROB also helped make North American retailers stock the NES.

Snake on the otherhand did nothing to deserve being in a series dedicated to Nintendo heritage.

Tell that to one of my rabid Daisy fanboys.:******:

In Smash64,C.Falcon and Ness where the WTF RETRo
In Melee,its GaW and Iceys
In Brawl its...ROB.
Wasnt ROB only usable for two games?
And someone described him as "Hes loud,moves his arms,and hes loud".
_________________________________
Anyway,I dont know if thsi is a fanboy dream,but I would love if Ashely was in Brawl,isnt she the 4th most popular Wario character?

@Smashbot,every comment after "And Toad is playable in Super Mario Bros. 2 as a major,and Warios Woods." wasnt even directed at you,so I dont know why yer replying to them when it wasnt even about Toad.

Wario's Woods is the game where Toad has a leading role,I havent played it myself because I wasnt really into games at the time,but in short,it was puzzle game,and the last NES game to be realessed in North America(not that it matters)

 

[Ilex]

Toad was the playable character in Wario Woods. He was the one you controlled to move the various objects around.

GameFaqs did a poll (Can't find a link, it was a while ago) of who their favorite Mario character was. Guess who won? Toad. He's probably the most lovable Mario character there is.

 

[smashbot226]

"I'm sorry, but you're princess is in another castle."

Those words sent me into a rampage.

LOVABLE?

He's Satan Incarnate.

 

[ChronoBound]

Toad was the playable character in Wario Woods. He was the one you controlled to move the various objects around.

GameFaqs did a poll (Can't find a link, it was a while ago) of who their favorite Mario character was. Guess who won? Toad. He's probably the most lovable Mario character there is.

So was this a poll on a message board?

Anyway, if Toad is so popular on GameFAQs, why wasn't he nominated in this year's Charactrer Contest.

I enjoyed Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2, and Wario's Woods is my favorite puzzle game, however. you have to admit that things are very bleak for the little guy. Toad fans must first show that he is important by at the very least showing he would be a better and more worthy addition than Geno (both Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. are out of Toad's league in terms of importance).

 

[darkserenade]

He might be the most lovable, but in that post, I didn't see the word "Smash Bros."Case closed.

 

[Darkwashu]

Also,on a side note,isnt Yoshi just one of a large race of Yoshi's?
I dont even think there was one point where there was a single "Yoshi"

 

[smashbot226]

Also,on a side note,isnt Yoshi just one of a large race of Yoshi's?
I dont even think there was one point where there was a single "Yoshi"

There was the VERY FIRST green Yoshi.

Red, Blue, and Yellow were Easter Eggs.

And the others were spin-offs.

WHY ISN'T KAMEK IN BRAWL?!?

 

[darkserenade]

Also,on a side note,isnt Yoshi just one of a large race of Yoshi's?
I dont even think there was one point where there was a single "Yoshi"

In Super Mario RPG, there was an island with the generic ones, the Yoshi, and Boshi.

 

[ChronoBound]

There was the VERY FIRST green Yoshi.

Red, Blue, and Yellow were Easter Eggs.

And the others were spin-offs.

WHY ISN'T KAMEK IN BRAWL?!?

Here is my assessment:

The Yoshi series basically while it has people who enjoy its games, has no distinct fanbase. Many fans of the Yoshi series are also fans of the Mario series, and the Yoshi series is really simply an off-shoot of the Mario series, much like Paper Mario and Dr. Mario. With that being said, that lies the problem as to why there probably won’t be an additional Yoshi character added to future Smash Bros. games. There are only a few Smash fans that are requesting for another Yoshi character to be added to Smash, and there is simply not an enough of an outcry for another one to be added. Also, I feel the Yoshi series is adequately represented with just Yoshi, and that a second playable character would be too much (unless of course the Yoshi series were to rise in popularity with that of the Wario series and gain its own distinct fanbase).

The only two characters that I see people suggest for Smash Bros. 4 in regards to Yoshi characters are Kamek and the Baby Bros. (Baby Bowser was a requested Yoshi character prior to Melee, however, the appearance of Bowser Jr. has nearly evaporated the fanbase for Baby Bowser). Kamek is one of the primary antagonists of the Yoshi series, and his fans argue that he could have a magic based moveset. The Baby Bros. supporters say a moveset could be based off of their appearance in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time. However, neither of these two character are popular choices, and in my opinion don’t deserve a place simply because there is no need to give Yoshi a second character at this point in time. Overall, I don’t expect Sakurai to place in a Yoshi newcomer in Smash Bros. 4, and neither would I if I were directing.

 

[Darkwashu]

There was the VERY FIRST green Yoshi.

Red, Blue, and Yellow were Easter Eggs.

And the others were spin-offs.

WHY ISN'T KAMEK IN BRAWL?!?

In first first appearance,he was a single Yoshi.
But,in Yoshi's island,the game right after his first appearance,they show multiple Yoshis
Like a Yoshi passing another Yoshi to another,if its like Yoshi's Island DS in the way it ends a level.

 

[smashbot226]

There could also be a Mother Yoshi.

Who spawns millions of Yoshi's every second.

And my two Yoshi reps would be:

Kamek, and:

SHY GUY.

 

[darkserenade]

Shy Guy=nooo. I'd take Boshi, Birdo, or Baby Bros. before him. Heck, put in generic Yoshi #719.

 

[Samuelson]

MEWTWO!!!

I would like to see a Baby Mario + Baby Luigi combo team like the Ice Climbers

Megaman, Rayman and Banjo Kazooie would be great 3rd party adds IMO

Spyro and Crash would also be cool but that is a little bit unrealistic *looks at a picture of Snake*

 

[Ilex]

Toad fans must first show that he is important by at the very least showing he would be a better and more worthy addition than Geno (both Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. are out of Toad's league in terms of importance).

1) Paper Mario is his own series, he's not a Mario character.
2) Bowser Jr. leagues above Toad?? A little whiny unoriginal Bowser clone who was made because the storyline was getting too stale is NOT more important than Toad. He does nothing other than paint with his magical brush (Which is a generic, recycled idea found in at least one episode of every lasting child's cartoon). I don't know about you, but I'd rather get a classic Mario character than an unoriginal villain. Don't start thinking that I hate him, I would just prefer Toad over him.
3) LOL GENO. He co-stared in one spinoff game that was released 12 years ago and hasn't been mentioned since. What significance does this character have? Popularity, but Toad also has that + has been in every Mario game + playable in multiple more games.

Toad>Bowser Jr>Petey>Waluigi>Rosalina>Daisy>(Every other Mario character)> Every other Nintendo character including Link's uncle>AND THEN Geno.

 

[darkserenade]

Why does everybody love the team gimmic? It worked, but people might/will get rid of it. No teams unless they are considering Shy Guy(or the team is total awesomeness), which is when I would make my move and erase their memories.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

NES & SNES: These are the Koopalings. They are Bowser's kids and help him in his plots against Mario and Co. They are all unique in name, appearance, etc. Not to mention Iggy Koopa is named after the one and only Iggy Pop. They are awesome.

GC & Wii: This is Bowser Jr. He's just like Papa, except cuter, has more 'tude, kiddier, and if you couldn't tell from Sunshine, sucks and deserves undying hatred from dveryone forever. Oh, and his name ISN'T areference to Dinosaur Jr. God ****, Bowser Jr. sucks

 

[Darkwashu]

I liek Bowser Junior...
Dont the Koopa Kids star in M&L:SSS?

3) LOL GENO. He co-stared in one spinoff game that was released 12 years ago and hasn't been mentioned since. What significance does this character have? Popularity, but Toad also has that + has been in every Mario game + playable in multiple more games.

Permission to quote this?

 

[Ilex]

Sure if you want.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

ME WANT BANJO KAZOOIE! They should replace the Ice Climbers with him. Yes, that's right. I hate you *slaps all IC mainers*

I also hate Toad. Check the original sprite from back in the 8-bit days. Enlarge and you will see he is FLIPPING EVERYONE OFF! "We've been getting flipped off by that shroom-headed freak for years..."

If you know where that quote came from then Kudos. I would give you a virtual cookie, except I really don't care if you know where it came from. You can just feel all warm and fuzzy inside cuz YOU know what's going on here and all other f00ls on smashboards don't!

K I'm done.

Oh wait... We need Boo too. That dern lil' ghostie!

 

[smashbot226]

ME WANT BANJO KAZOOIE! They should replace the Ice Climbers with him. Yes, that's right. I hate you *slaps all IC mainers*

I think I love you.

A shame Microsoft are a bunch of greedy nerds.

 

[Darkwashu]

ME WANT BANJO KAZOOIE! They should replace the Ice Climbers with him. Yes, that's right. I hate you *slaps all IC mainers*

All 3 of us are not amused.

Aasking for Banjo now is like asking for Master Chief.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

1) Paper Mario is his own series, he's not a Mario character.[/qoute]

Paper Mario is a spin-off RPG of the Mario series, and a mediocre one at best. 2-Dimensional Mario is the same one from the Donkey Kong arcade. The whole Paper Mario fad got stale with Paper Mario 2 anyway.

 

[Darkwashu]

Except the one from Donkey kong was because of the low quality of graphics that long ago.

Having Paper was a unique touch.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Omg this thread gets new comments fast! I edited my comment and added in a huge rant. GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT!

Isn't Banjo gonna be for XboX now? If so, that's lame... lame-y lame lame LAME!

 

[Ilex]

1) Paper Mario is his own series, he's not a Mario character.

Paper Mario is a spin-off RPG of the Mario series, and a mediocre one at best. 2-Dimensional Mario is the same one from the Donkey Kong arcade. The whole Paper Mario fad got stale with Paper Mario 2 anyway.

..It's an PRG? Really? I always thought it was a platformer. I suppose you can buy items and change into 1 of 4 characters, but other than that it's a platformer through and through. And if Yoshi gets his own series in SBB, then Paper Mario definitely will.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

In first first appearance,he was a single Yoshi.

Right and wrong. Even since Super Mario World there has always been the race of dinosaurs Yoshis along with THE singular Yoshi.

 

[MarthFanatique]

It appears that the Geno fans have suddenly just disappeared. Before Brawl's roster leaked, he had rabid fans everywhere. It was a little annoying. Now, they left. lol This is good fellow Mega Man (X) fans, our time has come! We need to give Mega Man (X) more popularity, now!

 

[Big-Cat]

All 3 of us are not amused.

Aasking for Banjo now is like asking for Master Chief.

At least Banjo and Kazooie have a history with Nintendo.

I can only imagine what the deals would have to be for them to get in. Considering that BK is on XBLA, maybe the other way around can happened.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

..It's an PRG? Really? I always thought it was a platformer. I suppose you can buy items and change into 1 of 4 characters, but other than that it's a platformer through and through. And if Yoshi gets his own series in SBB, then Paper Mario definitely will.

Super Paper Mario touches back on platforming, an it's even live-action, but it's still an RPG as well..

Edit: I'm pretty sure Paper Mario is considered part of the Mario series. Look at the paper trophies in smash, they are listed under Mario Bros., I think..

 

[MisterDrBob]

This idea's kind of stupid, and it would probably work better as an Assist Trophy, but what about Mach Rider? He'd be built like Captain Falcon, and might have some similar physical attacks, but his moves would be:
Standard B: Shot- A twin shot that comes from a blaster he holds.
Side B: Mach Bike- Kind of like Wario Bike, but faster, and it can't be steered. It'll turn around automatically.
Down B: Obstacle- He tosses out an obstacle from Mach Rider like a rock or an oil drum.
Up B: Mach Speed- Kind of like a love child of Fox Illusion and Fire Fox. He can charge it up and change direction, but it moves at the speed of Fox Illusion.
Final Smash: Quadrunner Assault- A group of Quadrunners appear, and Mach Rider goes crazy getting rid of them, damaging anyone on the stage who's in his way.