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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Sudsy86_

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I have no idea if this is an original character idea or not.

Birdo:

Small (MK-like size),

Med-heavy weight ( a notch above Mario),

Med-heavy attack power ( a notch above Mario),

Short range,

Good ground agility/ foot speed ( Wario-like)

Floaty in air ( like Luigi)

Average first jump, and

Amazing second jump ( similar to Diddy's Z+A jump in DK 64).

Moveset ( will likely do a poor job here):

neutral a: standard punch-- 3-4 %, depending on location

Jab combo : punch, kick, headbutt ( very similar to Mario/ Luigi's)--13-16 %

ftilt: quick headbutt ( horizontal headbutt with either forehead or top of head) 7-9 %, depending on location. Won't kill definitively until 207-210.

dtilt: slower, more powerful version of Ness' dtilt ( Like Mario/ Falcon's)--2-3 %, depending on location. Won't kill until 208-212.

utilt--Essentially the same as Luigi's--8-9%, depending on location. Won't kill until 119-124.

fsmash: charged version of ftilt--11 minimum charge; 19 fully charged. 20 when fully charged and up close. Minimum won't kill until 131-136 range; max. won't until 123-126.

Dsmash: head smash downwards ( starting straight up, ending in L-like position. Hitbox goes as high as 30-35 percent of Birdo's height.)--11 minimum charge; 15 fully charged. 16 fully charged and up close. Won't kill until 117 uncharged; max. won't until low 100's. ( move has short range.

Usmash: Essentially Mario/Luigi/ Yoshi's--12 minimum; 16 fully charged. 17 when fully charged and up close. Minimum won't kill until 126-130; Max won't until 119-124.

B: charged egg spit/ shot(?) ( quicker, less powerful version of Samus' charge shot, except being able to be charged while in air)--3-4 damage not close and not charged; 5-6 up close. 11-12 damage fully charged and not close; 13-14 fully charged and up close. All percentages depending on body part hit. Won't kill until 197 fully charged.

OverB: horizontal egg spit/ shot (?). Same max firing rate as Mario's fireballs. Eggs are roughly the same size as Samus' canon/ missle arm attachment. Eggs do 3-4 damage each.
Knockback same as a projectile Pokeball. Won't kill until...., I don't know, 340-350. (?)

UpB: Birdo exhales and propells herself upwards. Height attained is slightly higher than Link's upB. Does no damage but anyone caught in air stream ( which lasts as long as she's being propelled) will be pushed about six feet at a downward angle( assume a standard short hop is about four feet or so). The angle and distance will be determined in the same way billiard balls travel. Basically, someone hitting the side of the air stream is hitting an air wall. Knockback is inversely proportional to distance between opponent and Birdo. No killing potential by design.

DownB: Charged ground quake. Birdo presses mouth to ground and exhales into ground, causing surface to shake, causing an instant vulnerable, trip-like result to the opponents. Minimum charge yields opponents temporarily losing balance, essentially doing nothing much at all. Maximum charge yields causes opponent to fall on rear end long enough for a dash attack to connect--or even a fairly quick regular attack if close enough. 3-8 damage, depending on distance away from cause of radiation. Has no killing potential itself.

Dash attack: summersault. Isn't a full one like Snake's. Ends with Birdo's rear still on the ground and feet in air with possible short prolonged attack potential. Is useful for pushing off walls back into standing position, with the reverse summersault doing damage as well.
Can attack continuously as fast as Snake's summersaults. Depending on distance, forward saults can deal 3-7 on initial sault--while dealing 3-4 more during prolonged attack with feet--and 2-4 on reverse sault. Won't kill until at least 220.

Nair: Same as Mario/ Yoshi's--7-10 damage. Won't kill until at least 170.
Fair: aerial headbash--6-12 damage. Won't kill until at least 155.
Bair: Same as Mario's. 7-13 damage. Won't kill until at least 160.
Dair: Unsegmented version of Lucario's. 2-3 damage each hit. Isn't meant to kill unless off stage.
Uair: Same as Jigglypuff's. 7-10 damage. Won't kill until 113-115.

Birdo would not be a character you would use to kill at low percentages. Her knockback strengths are not in areas in which you typically kill your opponent.

Birdo is primarily a mix of Squirtle, Mario and Luigi.

I don't think Birdo is cheap, considering her poor range. I think she would likely be high-mid or in the high tier.

Think this would realistically work if given the chance? Thoughts?
 

Veggi

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In order by appearance in the SSB franchise, it'll likely be:
Krystal > Slippy > Pigma > Peppy > Panther > Andross > General Pepper > Dash Bowman > Katt Monroe > Beltino (Slippy's father) > Amanda (Slippy's love interest in Command) > Anglar King > Aparoid Soldier > Anglar Soldier > Andrew Oikonny > Leon
Your an idiot. You forgot ROB!

roflolmaojk
 

mantlecore77

Smash Journeyman
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Ohio
I don't know if movesets are allowed here but I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks that they're kind of annoying...
No offense, Sundsy or SmashBrosMike.
Actually, I like your movesets.
And Birdo is sweet.
As a matter of fact I made a moveset of my own for her in MYM2.
 

SirKibble

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Hold the movesets for a few more days, guys. The Make Your Move 3.0 thread will open up on Monday or Tuesday, and then you can post them in there.
 

flyinfilipino

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Sadomasochism is still a better fetish than furrie.
Admit it, the staff is her pleasure toy for her night off and nothing more. Asides from that it is the exact same as a sword in the smash games and I don't see how it can be used as an argument. Guess what? Leon can turn camouflage and that is more unique than anything Krystal could ever bring. Krystal only has more significance in the newer games and Sakurai has always favored the older characters so that only works against her. If she had so much of a larger fanbase then there wouldn't be the huge Leon opposition to Krystal that there is.
I was joking, now let's end this fetish discussion.



What else is there to being a weapon other than how it's used and its hitboxes? Krystal fans argue that it makes her unique, but it is exactly the same as a sword. I'll give you elemental abilities, but Sakurai will probably only use her 'staff' for smash attacks and aerials and maybe one special elemental move (Exactly like Ike) so don't count on her moveset to be revolutionary.

Falco can't fly because his wings are underdeveloped and he's wearing a jacket over top of them. Leon however is an assassin which immediately ties in with stealth and camouflage goes with the theme. I'd be shocked if Sakurai didn't give him camouflage or invisibility. You're also assuming that Krystal will be given her staff when she hasn't used it in several games. And even if he does implement the staff, it might be only for one move, not unlike Mario's FLUDD.

Pokemon Trainer with older Pokemon were put in not because he just felt like it but because he favours the classics. Same with G&W, Ice Climber, ROB, and Pit. All of them could have been replaced with newer character but he chose not to. This is the reason that Leon will be in before Krystal.
Where do you keep getting this camoflage thing from? Now you're jus pulling at straws. We can imply lots of special abilities for lots of characters if we try hard enough. I can imply that Krystal has telekinesis since she's telepathic too. Yayyy

Ike, Roy, Lucario, and I'm sure a bunch more people I'm forgetting disagree with you about Sakurai always using the oldest characters. And honestly, I never saw anyone talking about Leon prior to Brawl's release.

Sure, all weapons in Smash are basically the same, but that didn't stop Link, Meta Knight, Pit, Ike, and Marth from co-existing. At least we know she fought with a staff at one point.

By the way, Pokemon Trainer's design is based on the 3rd gen FireRed and LeafGreen remakes.
 

SmashChu

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I know. I'm in denial, though. Humor me. :/
Sorry to get on a high horse about him. I don't think Kirby needs another character. It really has hit it's mark.

I don't really like Midna, but I guess she'd be okay...
To each his own. :)

Take your time. I'm a fanatic, I'll want a good response. ;)
I did. Check it out, should be there.

Nope. I meant to acheive 49. I wanted 49 for aesthetic purposes on the roster's organization. The Random button makes 50, and then we could have a 5x10 roster. They were the last character I added, and just because there wasn't anyone else I really wanted.
OK, I see now. Sorry if I ranted a bit.

I'd be totally willing to hear a better suggestion for a FE character, so long as they meet the criteria I listed.
Only problem is we'll have to wait and see. FE will have more games and more characters. Heck, there might not be any body else. But, like for a lot of character for SSB4, they will come in the future. Really hoping that KI rumor is true so the franchise might get another character.
 

SirKibble

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Sorry to get on a high horse about him. I don't think Kirby needs another character. It really has hit it's mark.
It's all good. I just hate to see every other series progress and get more character suggestions when it's my personal favorite.

I did. Check it out, should be there.
The unfortunate thing is you're right. There really isn't another character that sticks out a whole lot. If a new Kirby game (it's about time Kirby Wii came out anyway) featured someone like Adeleine in a major role, I think the series would have a shot at another roster spot, but with the way things are now, probably not. I can wish, though.

OK, I see now. Sorry if I ranted a bit.
Don't sweat it. I figured I just needed to clarify a bit.

Only problem is we'll have to wait and see. FE will have more games and more characters. Heck, there might not be any body else. But, like for a lot of character for SSB4, they will come in the future. Really hoping that KI rumor is true so the franchise might get another character.
I guess we'll just have to see.
 

Agi

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@ sirkibble...

I honestly don't see kirby getting anymore playable reps. However, I am all for seeing Kirby enemies in the new adventure mode, copyable powers included. If it does get another rep, the only ones I can see are sword/blade knight, maybe the painter girl (was it adeline?), or POSSIBLY Dark Mind. (His vampyric form.)
 

Big-Cat

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1)He's not popular. Lucas was. He has never been popular.
2)No, we don't need another one. Mother 3 didn't have great sales and Mother 2 (Earthbound ) did awful here. The Mother fanbase (while I like them) is EXTREMLY vocal which makes it seem as if they are much larger then they are. They are also dedicated which helps this as well. There is no need for another Mother character. None of them are popular enough and the franchise isn't that big anyway.
Actually, Claus appeared on the "poll" just as much as Lucas did. His popularity, however, did skyrocket after Lucas' confirmation, but that was just here for the most part. Not to mention that it can be justified a bit since Nintendo hasn't released MOTHER 3 here. Therefore, not many people outside of Japan knew about Claus or anyone else for that matter.

While the franchise isn't that big, you can't deny that there is a lot of moveset potential in the MOTHER characters which explains why the support is more diverse in that series.

Anyway, I'd add Claus and make everyone else become DLC alt. costumes for Ness and Lucas.
 

SmashChu

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Actually, Claus appeared on the "poll" just as much as Lucas did. His popularity, however, did skyrocket after Lucas' confirmation, but that was just here for the most part. Not to mention that it can be justified a bit since Nintendo hasn't released MOTHER 3 here. Therefore, not many people outside of Japan knew about Claus or anyone else for that matter.
Yeah, and they both scored a 2. One problem is that it was how many times Sakurai mentioned a comment. Of course, he's not really that popular in Japan either (I beleive there are still people above him, but there might be others who know better).
While the franchise isn't that big, you can't deny that there is a lot of moveset potential in the MOTHER characters which explains why the support is more diverse in that series.
Ummmm......what?
Again, potential means nothing. All characters have moveset potential. Earthbound does not need another character.
Anyway, I'd add Claus and make everyone else become DLC alt. costumes for Ness and Lucas.
Clause is already a costume for Lucas. The brown haired one.
(This is also why you don't make the game).
 

Big-Cat

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Yeah, and they both scored a 2. One problem is that it was how many times Sakurai mentioned a comment. Of course, he's not really that popular in Japan either (I beleive there are still people above him, but there might be others who know better).
Can you prove to me that he's not that popular in Japan? Among the fanbase, he and Lucas are the most popular MOTHER 3 characters, but not by much I believe.

Ummmm......what?
Again, potential means nothing. All characters have moveset potential. Earthbound does not need another character.
Sheesh, I'm just saying that there is more potential in the MOTHER series characters than, say, Metroid which really just has Ridley and Dark Samus without having to make stuff up.

Clause is already a costume for Lucas. The brown haired one.
(This is also why you don't make the game).
Silly rabbit, Claus is a red head.That doesn't explain why I don't make the game other than that I don't know how to in the first place (neither do most here).
 

ChronoBound

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Mother does not need as many playable characters as it has games.

Second, Star Fox does not need a fourth character, therefore just drop the Leon versus Krystal discussion altogether.
 

SirKibble

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@ sirkibble...

I honestly don't see kirby getting anymore playable reps. However, I am all for seeing Kirby enemies in the new adventure mode, copyable powers included. If it does get another rep, the only ones I can see are sword/blade knight, maybe the painter girl (was it adeline?), or POSSIBLY Dark Mind. (His vampyric form.)
Yes, it was Adeleine. I think she's got a good shot, if she appears in a new game. She only appeared in Kirby 64, and that's, I believe, what's holding her back.

I really do hope Kirby gets a bigger part in the Adventure Mode. I'd like to see some enemies, and I'd prefer that Kirby be able to get copy abilities from the Adventure Mode enemies. Also, I don't see why characters like Marx or Dyna Blade couldn't be added as bosses.
 

Agi

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I'm all for reps from...

F-Zero
Yoshi
...Mario (I really want to play as Hammer Bro and Boo for some reason.)
 

Tedius Zanarukando

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Super Smash Bros. 4 will be released about 6-8 years after Brawl. Keep in mind that Fire Emblem is emerging in the U.S. I am expecting Lyn as a starter character in SSB4. Masahiro Sakurai planned to have Lyn to be playable in Brawl, but Nintendo decided that she would be AT'd, leading me to reject Brawl. I am somewhat expecting Sigurd from FE4 as well. Super Smash Bros. series never had a female sword wielder before. Ike being playable in Brawl may have boosted Fire Emblem game sales. Fire Emblem will probably sell better between Brawl and SSB4 than it did between Melee and Brawl. I doubt whether I will campaign for Ayra when it comes to SSB4. The Fire Emblem franchise is taking a break from original games. The Fire Emblem games to be released between Brawl and SSB4 will be mostly remakes of Japan-only releases. The next original Fire Emblem game will most likely be released on the same platform as SSB4. I personally want Ayra (as a downloadable character) from FE4 as well, but I can accept SSB4 without her if Lyn gets in as a playable character. She was declared the best character but not the best unit. Sothe was originally going to be an Assist Trophy in Brawl but was cut from the Assist Trophy boat, so instead he appeared as a regular trophy.

For the Star Fox series, I am expecting Krystal to be in the series. Andross appeared in Brawl as an Assist Trophy. Pigma is not as popular as Leon, as he got expelled from Star Wolf and replaced with Panther sometime between Star Fox 64 and Star Fox Adventures. However, Pigma has more storyline significance.

Downloadable content is expected to be in SSB4. It would include playable characters, Assist Trophies, Pokéball Pokémon, stages, trophies, and music tracks. Sakurai explained that downloadable content is currently impossible in Brawl due to the Wii's lack of hard drive. Wii's successor, the platform that SSB4 will be on, will have a hard drive built in.
 

Sudsy86_

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In order to make the characters "balanced", I'd try experimenting like this.

MK--shortening range by, I'd guess...10 percent, while also his attack power/ knockback by about 8-10.

Snake--decreasing tilt damage by about two percent might do it for me. Maybe SLIGHTLY shorter range.

ROB--Either shorten his recovery, decrease gyro and uair damage, agility, or attack speed. Not really more than one of those, I wouldn't say.

Falco--Decrease priority.

Marth--Not much you can do without making him a lot worse. I guess we can go with decreasing range by maybe 5-8 percent.

G&W--slower attack speed.

Dedede--slow movement capabilities.

Kirby--Shorten the height of final cutter and one-two fewer jumps.

Peach--nothing.

Lucario--nothing.

Mario--nothing.

Wolf--decrease either attack range or speed.

Fox--Nothing much. Possibly decrease upsmash power. Likely nothing, though.

Luigi--nothing, though he's really good.

Zelda--shrink upsmash hitbox.

Shiek--nothing.

Bowser--nothing.

DK--nothing.

Ike--nothing.

Sonic--nothing.

Link--forget adhering to Twilight Princess' Link, give him a better jump.

T.L/ Y.L--SLIGHTLY decrease attack aerial attack speed.

Pikachu--lag after Thunder

P.T--Nothing.

Samus--Give her a single move with decent KO-worthy knockback.

Zamus--Nothing.

Olimar--Nothing.

Falcon--Increase range by about 15-20 percent.

Ness--If anything decrease duration of PK thunder. Other than that, nothing.

Lucas--maybe a little lag after one of his moves.

Wario--Decrease attack speed; increase power.

Climbers--nothing.

Pit--decrease recovery capabilities.

Diddy--decrease attack power.

Jiggly--increase rest knockback.

I think it would balance things out nicely.
 

B-Mon

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Super Smash Bros. 4 will be released about 6-8 years after Brawl. Keep in mind that Fire Emblem is emerging in the U.S. I am expecting Lyn as a starter character in SSB4. Masahiro Sakurai planned to have Lyn to be playable in Brawl, but Nintendo decided that she would be AT'd, leading me to reject Brawl. I am somewhat expecting Sigurd from FE4 as well. Super Smash Bros. series never had a female sword wielder before. Ike being playable in Brawl may have boosted Fire Emblem game sales. Fire Emblem will probably sell better between Brawl and SSB4 than it did between Melee and Brawl. I doubt whether I will campaign for Ayra when it comes to SSB4. The Fire Emblem franchise is taking a break from original games. The Fire Emblem games to be released between Brawl and SSB4 will be mostly remakes of Japan-only releases. The next original Fire Emblem game will most likely be released on the same platform as SSB4. I personally want Ayra (as a downloadable character) from FE4 as well, but I can accept SSB4 without her if Lyn gets in as a playable character. She was declared the best character but not the best unit. Sothe was originally going to be an Assist Trophy in Brawl but was cut from the Assist Trophy boat, so instead he appeared as a regular trophy.

For the Star Fox series, I am expecting Krystal to be in the series. Andross appeared in Brawl as an Assist Trophy. Pigma is not as popular as Leon, as he got expelled from Star Wolf and replaced with Panther sometime between Star Fox 64 and Star Fox Adventures. However, Pigma has more storyline significance.

Downloadable content is expected to be in SSB4. It would include playable characters, Assist Trophies, Pokéball Pokémon, stages, trophies, and music tracks. Sakurai explained that downloadable content is currently impossible in Brawl due to the Wii's lack of hard drive. Wii's successor, the platform that SSB4 will be on, will have a hard drive built in.
Hope you don't mind me asking, but how do you know all of this?
 

smashbot226

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smashbot, aren't you the one who made the amazing Leon set in MYM2?
YES.

And he also WON, by four votes.

I also made Shy Guy, and Meme Man, the last in the top five out of fifty in fourth best.
TOP FIVE OUT OF FIFTY.

But that's not the point. Leon could easily become the new Star Fox character, and a legit one; not a clone like Falco or a luigified clone like Wolf.

HE WILL BE THE MESSIAH OF CLONES.


-------

I didn't want to do this...

DEBATE TIME

KamaOso, or however your name goes, I totally think you're reasoning for Krystal 4 Brawl is wrong.

1. Her storyline significance is moot; FOX is the main hero. Krystal is the eye candy whose backstory and background is COMPLETELY ignored, and goes throughout the rest of Adventures as Fox's future arm candy and fanservice for a hot recurring furry. What significance.

2. Knowing what Sakurai can do to the most unclonable of folks, her staff probably will NOT appear; Ganondorf, the Lord of All Evil, wielder of many weapons and magic, was the clone of a f*cking VEHICLE RACER. And Krystal hasn't used her staff since- well, I can't even remember.

3. Female characters- we've got Samus, Zelda, Peach, and apparently Shiek. Yeah, it might not be much, but at least it isn't FANSERVICE.

Rebuttal?
 

Big-Cat

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I'm not bothering with this anymore. No matter what I say, I can't convince you.
 

SmashChu

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Can you prove to me that he's not that popular in Japan? Among the fanbase, he and Lucas are the most popular MOTHER 3 characters, but not by much I believe.
Facepalm to the max
Of course they are. One ois the protaganist and the other is the antagonist. They should be the most popular.

Silly rabbit, Claus is a red head.That doesn't explain why I don't make the game other than that I don't know how to in the first place (neither do most here).
You'll have to go to what you originally said to firgure that out (sadly, Smashboards doesn't show all previous quotes). I'm too lazy......

Mother does not need as many playable characters as it has games.

Second, Star Fox does not need a fourth character, therefore just drop the Leon versus Krystal discussion altogether.
Agree on the former, but not the latter.
Starfox still has a large fanbase and many very popular characters. Both Krystal and Wolf were highly requested for Brawl. There is nothing really stopping this one from having 4 characters. It has lots of characters, sells very well, and lots of popular picks for the game. The fact that both Krystal and Wolf has a strong fanbases. Some of the strongest might I add.

It would not be uncanny, or out of place, for Starfox to get another character.
 

Chief Mendez

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SmashChu said:
Minda is probably the next most popular Zelda character.
Unless she appears again in a significant role in the next Zelda, then she won't be in SSB4 (maybe an AT). The next Zelda character after Link, Zelda and Ganon is Tingle.

DEAL WITH IT

B-Mon said:
Hope you don't mind me asking, but how do you know all of this?
He doesn't.

smashbot226 said:
Yeah, it might not be much, but at least it isn't FANSERVICE.
Which is exactly why we need Krystal. :bee:

Compared to every other fighting game in existence, there's a distinct lack of scrumptious cheesecake in the Smash Bros. series...
 

ChronoBound

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Facepalm to the max
Of course they are. One ois the protaganist and the other is the antagonist. They should be the most popular.


You'll have to go to what you originally said to firgure that out (sadly, Smashboards doesn't show all previous quotes). I'm too lazy......


Agree on the former, but not the latter.
Starfox still has a large fanbase and many very popular characters. Both Krystal and Wolf were highly requested for Brawl. There is nothing really stopping this one from having 4 characters. It has lots of characters, sells very well, and lots of popular picks for the game. The fact that both Krystal and Wolf has a strong fanbases. Some of the strongest might I add.

It would not be uncanny, or out of place, for Starfox to get another character.
No before Star Fox gets a fourth character, F-Zero, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Donkey Kong get another character. Also, sales say otherwise at Star Fox's supposed popularity. Krystal fans just happened to be very loud.

Also, if Krystal gets in, then Sakurai should place in both whoever the new lord is as well as Roy. If Star Fox can get four characters despite its declining popularity, then Fire Emblem can get four especially considerig it has been growing in popularity since Melee.
 

SmashChu

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Unless she appears again in a significant role in the next Zelda, then she won't be in SSB4 (maybe an AT). The next Zelda character after Link, Zelda and Ganon is Tingle.

DEAL WITH IT
Problem is Tingle has a mass amount of hatred against him so that one is out. Reason he's an AT. One reason I've never supported Midna is that the Zelda characters kind of come and go. However, she is surprisingly popular.

No before Star Fox gets a fourth character, F-Zero, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Donkey Kong get another character. Also, sales say otherwise at Star Fox's supposed popularity. Krystal fans just happened to be very loud.
No, the character is quite popular. Back in 2006, she was one of the most requested characters (in the top five above Wolf) as well as being one of the top characters in the post-Brawl poll. I beleive (if memory servers) she was also high up on Nsider's old poll.
Also, if Krystal gets in, then Sakurai should place in both whoever the new lord is as well as Roy. If Star Fox can get four characters despite its declining popularity, then Fire Emblem can get four especially considerig it has been growing in popularity since Melee.

I've explained this too often. Fire Emblem has 10 games (not counting the new one as sales haven't hit a halt yet) who's total sales are still less Starfox's 5 games. Really man, I think that's just fanboysim.

Not to mention the other factors: large number of characters, lots of requests, big name franchise, and lots of characters who are highly requested. Starfox is still revered as a big franchise for Nintendo despite waining in sales and popularity. It's still much higher then Fire Emblem by all means.

Face the facts, people want Krystal and she stands a chance for SSB4.
 

ChronoBound

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Still she doesn't deserve it. Fire Emblem DS sold in its first week more than Star Fox Command and Assault did in lifetime sales (in Japan). Star Fox fans are extremely ungrateful for what the series has.

Edit: Tingle is far more deserving than any other Zelda character not in yet considering he has two games of his own.
 

SmashChu

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Still she doesn't deserve it. Fire Emblem DS sold in its first week more than Star Fox Command and Assault did in lifetime sales (in Japan). Star Fox fans are extremely ungrateful for what the series has.
One is an RPG. The other is a shooter. You do that math. Of course, Starfox Adventures still sold more then almost all of the Fire Emblem games.
And how are Starfox fans ungrateful?

EDIT:More numbers. The worst selling Starfox game, Starfox Command, still beat almost every Fire Emblem game. Fire Emblem III: Monshou no Nazo meets it sales. Starfox Assault and beyond beat every Fire Emblem game ever release. Starfox is far more important then Fire Emblem.
 

ChronoBound

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One is an RPG. The other is a shooter. You do that math. Of course, Starfox Adventures still sold more then almost all of the Fire Emblem games.
And how are Starfox fans ungrateful?
Because they want to have as many characters as Zelda despite the major decline in the series, and if you are using the sales argument then Donkey Kong deserves four characters before Star Fox as well as Metroid.
 

hippochinfat!!

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Still she doesn't deserve it. Fire Emblem DS sold in its first week more than Star Fox Command and Assault did in lifetime sales (in Japan). Star Fox fans are extremely ungrateful for what the series has.

Edit: Tingle is far more deserving than any other Zelda character not in yet considering he has two games of his own.
IN JAPAN.

Smash is worldwide. Sakurai knows this and Starfox has a lot of great characters, nothing wrong with 3. 4 is to far however.

Look, Tingle is extremely unpopular. He's a minor character to begin with, hated by many and his games have only been released in Japan and one is just a very very rare balloon fighter game with him in it.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,998
Forget it I give up. Its thinking that any character can get in simply because he or she is popular among forum-goers that will be the downfall of Smash Bros. *sigh
 

kainsword

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Alright I took some time to come up with some images for the costumes idea. I've had that idea since Brawl was in production. It came to me when watching the first SSBB trailer for the 79th or so time that I'd like to also play as Wario in his overalls from the Wario Land games. Then I got to thinking that since so many people hate clones, Dr. Mario could be made into a costume and then I thought about the possibilities for other characters.

So here they are. I don't have many new characters and their possible costumes, but I do have quite a few possibilities in mind. Also take into account that the next Smash game will come in 5 to 6 YEARS from now, so many characters as of yet don't have a costume but should get one from the most recent incarnation of their game 5 to 6 years from now.

I think every character should get ONE additional costume to represent their diversity in their series and show how they've changed through the years. Most characters have a neat costume that was used in one or two games for a while, while some have never changed and others have an abundance of costumes (Samus, for example).

The basic rule about costumes is that they should be merely aesthetic and shouldn't be any different than their regular costume. This means the costume can't make them change size and it shouldn't make them change gender either. IE: Paula costume for Ness... The character must still be the same with the outfit, but an outfit designed to look like another character is fine. IE: Donkey Kong wearing a costume that resembles the clothing worn by Funky Kong. Something that wouldn't be right would be Samus wearing a Dark Samus costume, because Dark Samus was the result of the Metroid Prime corrupting the stolen Phazon Suit from Samus with incredibly high amounts of phazon. Samus cannot wear a Dark Samus suit since Dark Samus's suit has been fused externally by the Metroid Prime.


Mario and the Doc are back in business.


Obviously Mr. L is from a Paper Mario game, but it could easily still be applied by giving Luigi a belt, a black suit, grey gloves, grey boots, a green bandanna, and a black face mask. Easy enough?


While I don't like having characters dress up as a different character, there's just not many noteworthy Peach costumes. The Mario Strikers outfit represents the many sports game spin offs the Mario franchise has had, but there's a slight problem. How exactly will Peach float without a long dress or gown? It'd look really odd to see Peach float while wearing short shorts... Though I suppose Peach could do with a remodeled sky blue dress and an emo-like haircut to mimic Rosalina.


This one's kind of hard to choose. By far, Dry Bowser would be cooler to have as a costume, but it comes with some problems. This creates major graphical problems when Dry Bowser grabs a Smash Ball... He turns into a Giga Bowser with skin? Having Dry Bowser would mean there would also need to be TWO very different looking Giga Bowser skins. Whereas Rookie, the brainwashed Bowser in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, would only need a bandanna graphic on Giga Bowser. I mean, it comes down to very cool, but very time consuming Dry Bowser + Dry Giga Bowser or the easier and much less cool Rookie outfit...


The Paper Mario: TTYD Yoshi hatchling would just be a regular Yoshi with hair and a broken eggshell for pseudo-pants. Boshi is situational and can be a tough choice to use. Boshi is probably a Square-Enix character, as it was created by them when they made SMRPG. Boshi's name in Japanese is also Washi, which is the portmanteau of Yoshi and Warui, which is Japanese for "bad". Boshi is Yoshi's answer to Mario's Wario. LIf we create a precedent to allow the evil doppelganger of each Mario character into Brawl, then what about Luigi's WaLuigi? Again, many people hate WaLuigi which is why WaLuigi is an AT rather than playable in Brawl. IMO, the Yoshi hatchling would be the safer option but would still be cool. Boshi, while cool, has some issues that come with the neat costume...


Simple enough. WarioWare Inc. + Overalls, just like it is in Brawl.


The only other option would be Donkey Kong Jr. which has that incredibly dumb looking white spandex suit. While Donkey Kong Jr. has the only real Donkey Kong costume change over the years, Funky Kong would be a nice costume to have. Funky Kong throughout the Donkey Kong franchise has helped DK on the sidelines by offering rides to the next area or by giving him tips. Funky Kong also has the same body type as Donkey Kong, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary or weird to see Donkey Kong mimicking a fellow primate.


I haven't played DKC3, DK64, or any of the latest Donkey Kong game that use that weird bongo system. I have played Donkey Kong: King of Swing and it was a thoroughly enjoyable game. However, in the games I've played, Diddy Kong has never once changed costumes... I have only two thoughts and what he could have. 1. Kiddy Kong costume, but that has the problem of not having a hat, so what would he have for his up taunt where he flips his hat? 2. Rock Star costume with styled shades. I believe Diddy Kong used a guitar of some sort in DK64, so I guess a rock star outfit would work... I guess.


King K. Rool is a shoe in for SSB4 and Kaptain K. Rool was the coolest costume K Rool ever used. I believe he had some sort of scientist costume in DKC3, but it's a general concensus that Ninjas > Pirates > Scientists. But K Rool can't pull off the Ninja thing, so he's fine as a pirate.



It really depends on all of these characters. Miyamoto has recently confirmed that a new Zelda Wii game is currently in production. In the case that these four character designs get remodeled, then their base appearance in SSB4 will reflect those costume changes and Twilight Princess costumes will be unlockable. In the case that character models aren't remodeled, then giving each of them their Ocarina of Time costumes would be the unlockable option. However, Link has a few options in costumes... Ordalian Villager clothes, Zora Armor, Magic Armor, and Oni-Link or rather Fierce Deity Link are possibilities. While Fierce Deity Link would be cool, he couldn't wield the Helix Sword which would increase the range of his sword attacks. And even then, Fierce Deity Link can only wield the Helix Sword, as far as I know.


I can't really come up with many unique options for Toon Link... There is Ezlo, the talking minish cap in LoZ: The Minish Cap, but the only change would be a beak and eyes on the cap, which wouldn't be very interesting... The Outset Link trophy is basically the only Toon Link has as far as a second costume goes. However, I believe some time down the line another DS or Wii game starring Toon Link will emerge, and at that time he could get another costume.


The thing about Samus is that she has a crap load of costume options available. Two different Gravity Suits (Pink + Purple), Power Suit, Phazon Suit, Dark Suit, Light Suit, Fusion Suit, PED Suit, etc. The Metroid Prime series has just ended, so another Metroid series will begin sometime before SSB4 begins. My suggestion is to give Samus one of the new suits obtainable in the latest game preceding SSB4.


With the recent revival of enthusiasm and erections with the recent inclusion of Zero Suit Samus in Brawl, I'm very confident that the Metroid developers will include ZSS fights in the next Metroid series. Along with that, ZSS will also likely get a costume update for the next Metroid Wii game which can bring some changes to ZSS's arsenal. I also hope that in the next Metroid Wii game that they start considering technology that can be implmented into ZSS's suit rather than have it be a skimpy rubber suit with no abilities at all. For example, rocket boosters in her feet, an upgradeable pistol, perhaps camouflage, a utility belt, etc. Zero Suit Samus's costume depends heavily on what Metroid producers take and develop in the next Metroid Wii series.


Simple enough. The current and first costume will be the most updated design according to the most recent StarFox game preceding production of SSB4. The second costume will be based on Fox's original outfit and be given sunglasses, much like his father James McCloud.


The current and first costume will be the most updated design according to the most recent StarFox game preceding production of SSB4. The second outfit is Falco as he appears in StarFox adventures. He could also optionally have his classic StarFox 64 outfit, of which I don't have a picture of.


The current and first costume will be the most updated design according to the most recent StarFox game preceding production of SSB4. The second outfit would be Wolf as heoriginally appeared in StarFox 64, where he wore an outfit similar to Fox's but in a different color, rather than an entire outfit made of leather.


Pajama Ness would be cool, but everyone here should agree that robo disguise Ness would be the best option. However, there's the problem that the oddly shaped robo disguise would change Ness's size. The trick would be to make the robo outfit without changes Ness's size.


This is pretty much all I could come up with... There is at one point in the game where Lucas uses a different outfit, but that already kinda looks like the Masked Man without the helmet. Obviously Lucas would wear a costume that's similar to the Masked Man, except he wouldn't use a sword made of lightning or use the energy cannon. Perhaps the sword could be replaced with the stick in the Side Smash, but keep the same hitbox, but either way it's fine.


It's a common element in many late Kirby games to have hidden cans of spraypaint that can change the color of the Kirby you control. The problem with giving Kirby an outfit is that it would have to be removed as soon as he absorbs an enemy, which would make the costume pointless... However, they could introduce a small custom color Kirby feature where you can choose your own Kirby colors. For example, there would be a light, medium, and dark variant to red, blue, yellow, orange, green, purple, brown, and gray. Gray = White, Gray, Black, Red = Pink, Red, Crimson, etc. You choose a color for Kirby's body and a color for his feet. Your color preference for Kirby can be saved to the player name you choose, just like controller settings are. When selecting the custom color for Kirby in the character selection menu, there will be one colored Kirby that is colored according to the name you use.


The bottom left sprite is of Meta Samurai from the Meta Knight boss fight in Kirby Superstar. The larger sprite is from the Quick Draw minigame of a Kirby GBA title. Basically, Meta Samurai would be awesome. Western Knight + Eastern Samurai? Awesome. The other option would be to play as a maskless Meta Knight, which IMO wouldn't be as cool as a Meta Samurai.


The first costume is of the Quick Draw Dedede. He'd be cool, but it'd be weird to NOT have a Quick Draw Kirby, since Kirby would instead have a custom color option... Although it was just an idea of mine, I'd like to see Dedede in a suit. Although Dedede has never appeared in a suit in any Kirby game, I think it'd still be fun. King Dedede is a penguin, and penguins are often remarked to look like they're wearing a suit. Because of that, it'd also be nice to see Dedede in a suit of his own.


There are two ideas, but they could be combined... Pikachu has a habit in Smash games to wear hats according to the 3 different color teams. Red, Green, and Blue. However, the colors could be expanded in the costume Pikachu gets. Black, White, Orange, and Purple possibly? Perhaps Pikachu could wear a black vest for one for example. My second idea is to be able to play as a female Pikachu as seen with the heart shaped tail. If you combine the ideas you could get 3 male Pikachus with Green, Red, and Blue hats, and 3 female Pikachus with Pink, Purple, and Orange hats. People tend to suggest Shiny Pikachu, but Shiny Pikachu is merely a darker yellow... Also, some people don't like the hats Pikachu wears. Pikachu wouldn't exactly look like a cute electric mouse if it was... ugh, green. The hats are supposed to make Pikachu look cute.


I got the same suggestion for Jigglypuff, however, Jigglypuff doesn't have a different male and female version, so we'll just have to cope with that. White + Black + Purple unlockable costumes? I'd suggest white bunny ears to look cute and mimic Wigglytuff's rabbit-like ears.


Female trainer... Pretty simple.


Mewtwo and the Armor Mewtwo from the first Pokemon Movie. The Armor Mewtwo sprite actually doesn't exist in a game, but rather I made it by editing the FRLG Mewtwo sprite a long while back, here. Right now, I think Mewtwo is the most deserving character to be in SSB4.


I really have little to base Lucario's costume on... The only think I can suggest is for Lucario to wear what his original trainer did in the Lucario movie, here. Lucario could lose the gloves, hat, shirt, but keep the coat, cape and hat I suppose. The hat could be modified to allow Lucario's ears to show.


Marth has basically two options... He could use Roy's armor and headband as a costume, or he could use his promoted outfit if FE3 is remade. While FE1 is being remade for the DS, Marth's promotion would still look a lot like what he wears now, so it wouldn't be worth it to be a costume change. BTW, I'm not very supportive of Roy returning in SSB4. Roy was both a disappointment in Melee and in FE6. At the very least, Marth could don his armor for those fans who get wet with anticipation for Roy...


Second costume would be his MUCH cooler FE10 Vanguard promotion. His Vanguard form sports much more armor and looks much better than the FE9 Ranger class armor he uses in Brawl.


If you haven't heard yet, Camelot is still VERY hush hush on the RPG they've been working since 2001 I believe. 2001 IGN article, Jan 2005 IGN article, Feb 2005 IGN article. Camelot's a really small developer, so they are taking their time with the RPG they're working on. Hopefully it's Golden Sun Wii. Anyways, if Isaac stars in the Camelot RPG, his first costume will be based on that and his second costume will be based on his classic Golden Sun 1 costume. If he uses the same costume, he could then use Felix's outfit as a second outfit, for those who were really hoping Felix to get in SSB4 too.


Zero Helm Falcon FTW? Anyways, this is all I could think of for Captain Douglas Jay Falcon. Or, as the Japanese say, Kyaputen Doguras Jay Farukon.


Old Snake costume. Pretty typical, I suppose.


Sonic's another problem when dealing with costumes. He's had tons of forms and he also has many look-alikes in his series... There's Sonic Unleashed, Sonic and the Black Knight, Darkspine Sonic, Sonic Riders, and Mecha Sonic, Silver, Shadow, and Amy are look a likes. IMO, a costume should come from the latest game immediately preceding when SSB4 goes into production.


It's rumored that a Kid Icarus may be planned for Wii. If that does happen, SSB4 should base its design based on the one that's used on Kid Icarus Wii. But for now, there's really nothing that can be suggested, other than maybe a Centurion or whatever those soldiers are for a costume.


I guess the Subspace Emissary could be a costume, but that would cause problems in how ROB would exactly do many of his attacks, since the costume covers his arms... ROB could also use a modified form of ROB 64 as he appears in Star Fox. Although ROB 64 and ROB are completely different in shape, ROB could just get a different skin to appear styled like ROB 64 is.


I really have no idea as to what they could have as a costume. Any ideas guys?


I think he could use a goofy costume, such as the numerous G&W stages that have G&Ws with actual expressions. The current one is bland and emotionless... Or he could use a similar color concept as what Kirby uses, except he'd only be able to use one main color... Other people have suggested chef hats or firefighter helmets, but there's a problem with that... His dash and upsmash both use different helmets, so that's kind of out of the question. With the goofy expression, the goofy expression can still be kept. Also, there's some really cool G&W figurines representing many of his previous games here.


Pikmin 3 is coming to Wii soon, so Olimar may get a costume change in that game. If he does, he'd use the Pikmin 3 costume as the main one and have the Pikmin 1+2 costume unlockable. Many people have suggested a Louie costume, but that really can't be done since that would mean changing the head shape and helmet shape to be bigger. As we all know, a bigger size means they're easier to combo. There has to be minimal to no size change involved in costume changes. A Louie to Olimar head comparison can be seen here. A blue colored costume for the Pikmin 1 + 2 Olimar that resembles Louie would be alright, though.

Sprite Credits:
FE Planet -- Vanguard Ike
CS -- Pajama Ness + Robo Ness
Frario -- Kaptain K. Rool
LF -- Green (Female Trainer)
A.J. Nitro -- Rookie (Bowser)
JiraniS -- James McCloud, ROB 64
Kevin Huff -- Meta Samurai (Kirby Superstar)
 

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
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Messages
5,924
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Tampa FL
Because they want to have as many characters as Zelda despite the major decline in the series, and if you are using the sales argument then Donkey Kong deserves four characters before Star Fox as well as Metroid.
You use sales to argue me previous.........
First and foremost you need to look at the big picture. Metroid has VERY few characters. One of the big reasons we have yet to see another Metroid characters becuase there aren't that many. The we start to move into the realm of popularity. Donkey Kong doesn't have that many characters with a ton of request for Smash. Oh, it's getting better as K. Rool may have a shot at SSB4, but generally, there was not a lot of interest for DK characters besides Diddy.

Starfox has a lot of characters people want to see in Brawl. Wolf was one of the popular characters in Japan and Krystal was one of the most popular here. See what I'm getting at? Besides the fact that they are wanted more then most DK and Metroid characters (besides Ridley of course) it's that it's not just Starfox fans that want them. Face the facts: Starfox has a lot of popular characters, a lot of characters people would like to see in Brawl. It should be evident by the fact that we were arguing between who will get the 4th slot: Krystal or Leon. Part of the reason we have a lot of Starfox characters is people people keep asking for them. There is no way those two characters were popular all on their own.

What you are doing is arguing importance. Your saying "these characters should get in before all others becuase the franchise needs more representation". Truth is, it doesn't work like that. Metroid is big enough for 3 or 4 characters but there aren't a lot of characters to go on. Sure there is Ridley, but beyond that you only have the Hunters, and none of them are popular.

The roster isn't balanced becuase people ask for many different characters, and of course, not every franchise has the same amount of characters to offer. But Starfox has a lot of characters who could be in Brawl, and a lot who are popular. This is why we see so many. The franchise fits the bill. It's a bit rude that you call them ungrateful. It's not their fault people want to see characters from their favorite franchise then yours.
Forget it I give up. Have fun with Super Furry Bros. Yiff. *sigh
That wasn't rude at all
/sarcasm Cheif style
Look, people brought up a lot of strong arguments. You don't agree. So leave it at that. Geez
 
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