[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

ZOMG BAOUWNTEE EEZ LOUW ZOMG DEKUNFRMED. What's THAT supposed to prove? The creator may think lowly of Leon, but that dude also isn't Sakurai.

While that is true that the creator isn't Sakurai, but that doesn't mean anything.

Leon is the only character to consistently appear in the games, along with Wolf. Not to mention his addition is not only due to his mainstay in the series, but also due to balancing out the Star Fox rep list, giving two heroes and two villains. And you can't clone a reptile with a canine.

Leon has only one more game than Panther so that's a dumb argument. The main reason why he's stayed in this entire time is, unlike Oikonny and Pigma, he hasn't done anything that would have Wolf kick him out. Also why balance the Starfox reps that way? It's like Fox and Falco vs. Nega Fox and Falco. Not to mention that Star Wolf isn't really made up of villains but rather of people who do what they want.

Again, what kind of argument is this? It's like arguing that Mario can't be in because he has a lower jump than Luigi.
It's saying that in the Starfox Universe, Panther has more of a significant history despite that he has been appearing in the games for a lesser amount of time.

You're an utter moron. Leon is more important than that, seeing as how he's a part of a stage secret. I'm also pretty sure he's a trophy, too.
Panther, Slippy, Peppy, and Krystal all got the same treatment. By that logic, they have all the same importance.

Honestly, I think I could back up Kumatora over Claus better than what you're doing with Leon over Krystal.

 

[Ilex]

Leon: Is a badass chameleon assassin.
Krystal: Has several STDs.


Leon wins.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Hi here is an idea. I made up a smash bros. game which is an idea for the creators i the future it is called Super Smash Bros. Generation. Anyway there will be 48 playable characters and also if you have questions just ask. Here are the playable characters at the Start and Hidden Playable Characters.


Playable Characters at the Start:

Mario
Yoshi
Peach
Bowser
Wario
Mona
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Samus/Zero Suit Samus
Ridley (don't say he is too big because he can be playable and who cares about size okay)
Fox
Krystal
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Lucas
Ice Climbers
Ike
Pit
Captain Olimar
Isaac
Lip


Hidden Playable Characters:

Jigppyuff
Marth
Luigi
Dixie Kong
Ness
Sonic
Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario
Falco
Waluigi
Captain Falcon
Toon Link
Black Shadow
Lyndis
King K. Rool
Wolf
Ganondorf
Meowth
Paper Mario
Snake
R.O.B.
Lucario
Mr. Game & Watch


So what do you think. I think that is what the next smash bros. game should be.

 

[SirKibble]

I would like Krystal in. Not because I am a furry myself, but I want her in because she'd be more unique and uses a staff, hopefully she'd be a character whom Sakurai (you know how he thinks) would not give a pink landmaster, a laser gun, and a reflector to (and I'd be scared if they put Leon he might decide to make him a semi-clone of Wolf). Also, I'd like to appease the furries so they aren't scary anymore.

You may have a point. Like I said, I'm okay with either one, I just root for Leon because I hate furries.

I'd like K Rool over Dixie Kong. K Rool is a crocodile, and thus would act much different than another monkey/gorilla. He could also bring in a gun, his arqubus. I forgot what his gun is called, but it fires large metal balls and spiked balls, besides he is also a villain and much more recognizable and been in many games.

I knew I made a mistake there... I knew I wanted another DK rep, but couldn't think who, and figured it must have been Dixie... Replace Dixie on that list with K.Rool. My bad.

I would delete Claus from the Mother list. He has a sword/lightsabre (and we'd be oversaturated with them), and I think he would be too much like Darth Vader. He seems more suitable for a one-on-one battle between Lucas and him in a Boss Battle. Reminds me too much of having a boring moveset potential like how some other people might want Black Knight. Also, we'd also be over saturating the roster with "cool/badass" characters if we included Claus, and not enough characters who are cute/funny etc.

You know, having him as a boss would be cool, especially given how all the bosses right now are big and bad, emphasis on big. I don't feel we have too many sword-fighters all-around, though. I mean, every character brings what they've got. You don't see many people complaining that too many characters fight hand-to-hand.

I think Black Shadow shouldn't be in. Ganondorf can use his sword, but it'd make Captain Falcon more unique if only he had his moveset and they buffed him/made him better. Black Shadow and other F-Zero reps as you said don't have much personality so I feel we can leave Black Shadow out.

I don't think those who use Ganondorf should be deprived of the current moveset. A lot of people like that moveset. I'm just trying to please them by adding Black Shadow.

I'd also add another Warioware rep, I think Mona would be the best candidate. She seems to be the one closest to being Wario's most favored assistant, and she could count as a 'villain' as well. In one of her games, she uses a monkey to throw bananas as police cars chasing her, causing the death of potentially dozens of policemen. Besides, her moveset would be very varied and best of all... she isn't another magic user (i.e. Ashley) giving a non-magic based female moveset.

WarioWare probably deserves another rep, but I hate Wario, I won't give it to him.

I also would take away Knuckle Joe. I think 3 Kirby reps are enough, and Knuckle Joe doesn't seem to have that much personality wise. I hope you don't hate me after that

It's understandable. But I fail to see how Kirby having 3 reps is enough, while we continue to throw more in for many other big series.

I'd also take away Bowser Jr. I like the Paintbrush and all, but he doesn't seem to bring too much to the table and he'd seem way too similar to Bowser and who essentially looks the same (the same cannot be said of Wario and Mona, who both look, act, and fight very differently).

If you're saying he'd be a Bowser clone, I highly doubt that. First of all, his fire-breathing abilities are... Well, they hardly exist. And he's a little more mischievous than Bowser, so I have a feeling most of his moveset would be based around pranks and tricks, not the same kind of physical game Bowser has.

I'd also take away Toon Zelda, because the "Toon" series seem to have enough rep from Toon Link himself and I would get uncomfortable if a clone-copy of of another franchise is put in. It'd oversaturate the roster with Zelda characters, who are almost essentially the same. Even if Sheik and Tetra and different, would Zelda and Toon Zelda be that much different?

I think Sheik and Tetra being different would encourage Zelda and Toon Zelda to also be made differently. Also, I think The Legend of Zelda needs to stay on par with the Mario series, and there's really no one important enough to add other than another Toon character.

I'd also take away the Baby Mario Bros, because many people would get angry over having the same characters again in Baby form.

This I can't really disagree with. If I had to cut one character from my roster, it would be them. But I needed that 49th spot, and I like them.

Also, take away Bomberman. I think 3rd party is expensive, and it seems a waste to put Bomberman in when many people would be upset over his one-dimensional moveset (throwing bombs) and Megaman would be fine. Only include 3rd party if it is really really worth it, the character is super-popular and well known, or if that 3rd party is paying Sakurai to put their character in the game and not the other way around.

Throwing bombs would hardly be his entire moveset. He's got enough to draw from. Anyhow, Bomberman's as deserving as Megaman of a spot, in my opinion. He's just overshadowed and overlooked a bit.

@SirKibble: Here are the characters I disagree with.

Knuckle Joe-He worked as an assist because he's basically just another enemy. He's not popular and there are better Kirby characters.

What ones did you have in mind?

Leon-He's pretty much a second banana. There's nothing he has going for him that another character from the same franchise doesn't already have.

Would you prefer Krystal?

Baby Mario Bros.-Again, what makes IC unique is that they are the only one. It becomes redundant when you have another character who is the same concept. Go back to the drawling board and try again

Like I said above, they were almost left off the list, but added to even out the roster.

Claus-Again, as I've said before, Earthbound does not need more characters. Claus isn't very highly requested becuase everyone wanted Lucas, and he's only popular now becuase we have Lucas. There is no need for him.

Regardless of how or why, he is popular. We could use an Earthbound character with different moves, anyway.

Micaiah-You did say you didn't have much choice, but I still need to say nay to this one. First, she's not that popular, especially in a franchise with so many characters. Also, unique alone is not a good reason to add her. Let's, for a second, compare her to Krystal. Krystal deserves a spot becuase she is a very popular character, but use uniqueness as a way to support her. Michiah deserves a spot becuase she is unique. The justification for the latter is only becuase she could be unique, and not because she has any merit. Any character can be unique.

All right, just understand that I want another FE rep. She seems the best choice given what I'm trying to acheive with that rep. Like you obviously read, I didn't feel I had a lot of choice.

The rest is more personal gripes. I'm not a big fan of a Custome Robo character, and I think 4 third party franchises is a bit much, but overall, it works.

To each his own.

 

[Knyaguy]

Leon: Is a badass chameleon assassin.
Krystal: Has several STDs.


Leon wins.

Sexy Panthers beat badass chameleon assassins. But seroiusly I feel Krystal would fit better

 

[Big-Cat]

Leon: Is a sadomasochistic chameleon assassin.
Krystal: Has a staff, more plot signifigance, and a larger fanbase (even when you exclude the furries who are into her solely for her body).
Leon fails.

fixed

nyoro~n

 

[WolfCypher]

OK, I don't care either way if we get Krystal or not (StarFox doesn't need 4 reps, even in SSB4; I thought differently, but not anymore) but I will add this:

Krystal has been used in a bigger role than anyone on team StarWolf, excluding Wolf. That should be 1 merit for her.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Also I made a good storyline for Adventure Mode. It is called Adventure Mode: Revenge of the Subspace Emissary. Here is the Story.

Story: Many months after the subspace in Brawl. Everyone has went back to their own lives. like Samus kept Pikachu as a pet others like that and many more. But one day. Deathborn (If you don't know him. He is from F-Zero GX) Plans a trick. He creates clone versions of the Heroes like Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, Samus and many more and orders them to attack villains like Bowser, K. Rool and more. This makes the Villains want to get back at the heroes (They don't know that they were clones) so they join Deathborn (They don't know he is the reason for this and that he got them into it) and they create a new subspace Army. So then Mario and others find out and must stop them before its too late. Also Ridley will be returning. I made this thing up that Ridley escaped from the subspace and is alive again somehow in his old body and tries to go after samus (not knowing its a clone) but after finding out he teams up with her, pikachu, and Lip. Also at the end of the subspace when everyone beats Deathborn. They all get along and also Samus and Ridley makes a Truce and they become friends and also Ridley finds a way to bring Samus's parents back to life and now they are all friends.

So what do you think of the plot.

 

[MarthFanatique]

I think Falco and Wolf are safe from being cut. They'll get new final smashes. I think that might be it for Starfox. Just the three again.

Megaman IS going to be in the next one. There is no way he won't be, and he would be an awesome character. Samus, but with Kirby-like power copying.

Falco is definately safe from being cut...Wolf I'm not completely sure. I hope he returns (along w/ Krystal, not I'm not a furry I just want someone w/ a disjointed hitbox in the form of a staff along with an array of elemental attacks). Yes, Sakurai will be sly and cunning so Wolf and Falco will get new Final Smashes: they will share the Retsamdnal! We'll never see it coming...

Megaman I'm pretty sure is going to be in SSB4. However, I don't want him to be a Samus-Kirby mix. He should just keep his most memorable moves in his series.

His Final Smash could be a charged up Chameleon Sting. As many of you remember that godly weapon when charged up made X invincble! This would allow X to go around and beat the crap out of everyone with this Final Smash exclusive weapon: Chameleon Sting. By this I mean that he could fire the uncharged version of it (when it splits into three different angled attacks) which was rather powerful uncharged in that game. That one's a little stupid.

The other could be he either uses Giga Attack and deals XX% of damage (Blade armor version? so it wouldn't be "broken" since it would then be dodgeable [difficult though at that]) or a Charged up Gravity Well or Crystal Hunter to sweep opponents off the top of the screen or mess around w/ opponents time speed respectively.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

people keep mentioning krystal and her staff, but has she even used it since adventures? (i honestly dont know, i havent played a star fox game since then).

Edit: SmashBrosMike, that story was a bit cheesy. And Ridley And Samus will never be friends and will never team up. After all he did kill he parents.

 

[mantlecore77]

No offense-

Okay I lied. You're an idiot. Offense given.

smashbot, aren't you the one who made the amazing Leon set in MYM2?

 

[Ilex]

View Post
Leon: Is a sadomasochistic chameleon assassin.

Sadomasochism is still a better fetish than furrie.

Krystal: Has a staff, more plot signifigance, and a larger fanbase (even when you exclude the furries who are into her solely for her body).
Leon fails.

Admit it, the staff is her pleasure toy for her night off and nothing more. Asides from that it is the exact same as a sword in the smash games and I don't see how it can be used as an argument. Guess what? Leon can turn camouflage and that is more unique than anything Krystal could ever bring. Krystal only has more significance in the newer games and Sakurai has always favored the older characters so that only works against her. If she had so much of a larger fanbase then there wouldn't be the huge Leon opposition to Krystal that there is.

 

[SirKibble]

They all get along and also Samus and Ridley makes a Truce and they become friends and also Ridley finds a way to bring Samus's parents back to life and now they are all friends.

Um... Sorry, dude, but that ain't gonna fly. Ridley and Samus are mortal enemies. There will be no truce, and he's not gonna magically bring her parents back.

By the way, use more periods and fewer "and"s.

 

[Big-Cat]

For the next Wario rep, I think it needs to be none other than Captain Maple Syrup. I know people commonly suggest Mona, Ashley, Jimmy T., and 9-Volt, but the pirate, herself, has more significance than any of them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Megaman I'm pretty sure is going to be in SSB4. However, I don't want him to be a Samus-Kirby mix. He should just keep his most memorable moves in his series.

His Final Smash could be a charged up Chameleon Sting. As many of you remember that godly weapon when charged up made X invincble! This would allow X to go around and beat the crap out of everyone with this Final Smash exclusive weapon: Chameleon Sting. By this I mean that he could fire the uncharged version of it (when it splits into three different angled attacks) which was rather powerful uncharged in that game. That one's a little stupid.

The other could be he either uses Giga Attack and deals XX% of damage (Blade armor version? so it wouldn't be "broken" since it would then be dodgeable [difficult though at that]) or a Charged up Gravity Well or Crystal Hunter to sweep opponents off the top of the screen or mess around w/ opponents time speed respectively.

If you ask me, the classic Megaman might be used. In that case, I am hoping for his FS to be that Hyper Mega Man attack that he used in the Marvel Vs. capcom series.

I do agree that his most memorable moves have to be kept, though.

 

[WolfCypher]

Well then let me change the subject a bit:

Exactly what do you guys consider to be Mega Man's most memorable copied powers?

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

people keep mentioning krystal and her staff, but has she even used it since adventures? (i honestly dont know, i havent played a star fox game since then).
.

reposting cause no one answered my question.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Here are the levels in Adventure Mode: Revenge of the Subspace Emissary


Story Begins

Level 1-

Mario, Pit, Link, Yoshi Training Stage

Mario, Pit, Link, Yoshi vs. SSA

Mario, Pit, Link, Yoshi saves Peach, Zelda/Shiek

Team Heroes=Mario, Pit, Link, Yoshi, Peach, Zelda/Shiek

SSB goes off


Level 2-

Team Kirby=Kirby, King Dedede

Kirby, King Dedede Stage


Level 3-

Meta Knight vs. Ike (Player picks side)

Meta Knight, Ike Stage


Level 4-

Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu Training Stage

Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu finds Lip

Team Samus=Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu, Lip

Team Samus Stage

Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu, Lip vs. Dyna Blade (Boss)


Level 5-

Isaac Stage

Isaac vs. SSA


Level 6-

Fox McCloud, Krystal Stage

Black Shadow trophies Fox McCloud


Level 7-

Meta Knight, Ike Stage

Meta Knight, Ike joins Team Kirby

Team Kirby Mini-Stage


Level 8-

Krystal Stage

Krystal saves Lucas

Krystal, Lucas Stage


Level 9-

Ridley appears

Ridley Stage

Ridley vs. Samus/Zero-Suit Samus Clone


Level 10-

Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong Stage

Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong vs. SSA

SSB goes off

(Dixie Kong is Unlocked)


Level 11-

Isaac Mini-Stage

Isaac finds Snake

Team Warriors=Isaac, Snake

Team Isaac vs. Primoid (Boss)

(Snake is Unlocked)


Level 12-

Team Heroes Stage

Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario trophies Pit


Level 13-

Krystal, Lucas Stage

Falco Lombardi appears

Team Falco=Falco Lombardi, Krystal, Lucas

(Falco Lombardi is Unlocked)


Level 14-

Wario, Mona Stage


Level 15-

Team Kirby Stage

Marth appears

Marth joins Team Kirby

Team Kirby vs. SSA

(Marth is Unlocked)


Level 16-

Team Samus vs. Ridley

Ridley joins Team Samus

Team Samus Stage

Team Samus Mini-Stage


Level 17-

Team Heroes Stage

Team Heroes joins Team Kirby

Team Defenders=Mario, Link, Yoshi, Peach, Zelda/Shiek, Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Ike, Marth

Team Defenders Stage

Team Heroes frees Pit


Level 18-

Wario, Mona Stage

Wario, Mona saves Waluigi

(Waluigi is Unlocked)


Level 19-

Pokemon Trainer, Meowth Stage

Pokemon Trainer, Meowth joins Wario, Mona, Waluigi

Team Wario=Wario, Waluigi, Mona, Pokemon Trainer, Meowth

(Meowth is Unlocked)


Level 20-

Team Falco Stage

Team Falco vs. General Scales & RedEye King (Boss)


Level 21-

Luigi appears

Luigi finds Wolf O'Donnell

Team Luigi=Luigi, Wolf O'Donnell

(Luigi, and Wolf O'Donnell is Unlocked)


Level 22-

Team Samus Stage

Team Wario joins Team Samus


Level 23-

Team Luigi Stage

Jigglypuff joins Team Luigi

(Jigglypuff is Unlocked)


Level 24-

Team Falco Mini-Stage

Ness appears

Ness joins Team Falco

Team Falco Stage

(Ness is Unlocked)


Level 25-

Captain Falcon, Captain Olimar joins Team Donkey Kong

Team Donkey Kong Stage

Team Donkey Kong vs. Sumo Kong (Boss)

(Captain Falcon is Unlocked)


Level 26-

Team Falco joins Team Isaac

Team Protecters=Isaac, Snake, Falco Lombardi, Krystal, Lucas, Ness

Team Protecters frees Fox McCloud

Team Protecters Mini-Stage

Team Protecters vs. Pokey Minch (Boss)


Level 27-

Team Luigi Stage

Ice Climbers, Sonic, Lyndis, Lucario, R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch joins Team Luigi

Team Luigi Mini-Stage

Bowser, Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario, King K. Rool, Ganondorf, and Black Shadow trophies and Team Luigi


Level 28-

Team Samus, Team Wario stage


Level 29-

Ganondorf and Black Shadow trophies Bowser, King K. Rool, and Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario

Team Defenders Stage


Level 30-

Team Protecters Stage

Team Protecters joins Team Donkey Kong

Team Forces=Isaac, Snake, Falco Lombardi, Krystal, Fox McCloud, Lucas, Ness, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, Captain Falcon, Captain Olimar


Level 31-

Team Samus, Team Wario Stage

Team Samus, Team Wario vs. SSA


Level 32-

Deathborn trophies Ganondorf, and Black Shadow

Team Defenders Stage

Team Defenders vs. Usurper King Zant (Boss)


Level 33-

Team Forces revives Team Luigi

Team Luigi joins Team Forces

Team Forces Team Luigi Stage

(Sonic, Lyndis, Lucario, R.O.B., and Mr. Game & Watch is Unlocked)


Level 34-

Team Defenders Stage

Team Defenders vs. Giratina (Boss)


Level 35-

Team Samus, Team Wario Stage

Team Samus, Team Wario vs. Laz-Or Cruncher (Boss)


Level 36-

Team Defenders revives King K. Rool, Bowser, and Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario

King K. Rool, Bowser, Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario joins Team Defenders

Team Defenders Stage

(King K. Rool and Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario is unlocked)


Level 37-

Team Forces, Team Luigi Stage

Team Forces, Team Luigi vs. Evil Black Jewel (Boss)


Level 38-

Team Defenders joins Team Samus, Team Wario

Team Assault=Mario, Link, Yoshi, Peach, Zelda/Shiek, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu, Lip, Ridley, Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Ike, Marth, Bowser, Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario, King K. Rool, Wario, Waluigi, Mona, Pokemon Trainer, Meowth

Team Assault Mini-Stage

Team Assault vs. Dino Piranha (Boss)


Level 39-

Team Forces, Team Luigi vs. SSA


Level 40-

Team Assault joins Team Forces, Team Luigi

All Playable Characters seen so far except Ganondorf, and Black Shadow

Team All-Stars=Mario, Yoshi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Mona, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Link, Zelda/Shiek, Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Ridley, Fox McCloud, Krystal, Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Lucas, Ice Climbers, Ike, Pit, Captain Olimar, Isaac, Lip, Jigglypuff, Marth, Luigi, Dixie Kong, Ness, Sonic, Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario, Falco Lombardi, Waluigi, Captain Falcon, Lyndis, King K. Rool, Wolf O'Donnell, Meowth, Snake, R.O.B., Lucario, Mr. Game & Watch

Team All-Stars Mini-Stage

Team Assault vs. Kraid (Boss)

Team All-Stars Stage


Level 41-

Team All-Stars vs. SSA


Level 42-

Team All-Stars revives Ganondorf and Black Shadow

Ganondorf and Black Shadow joins Team All-Stars

Team All-Stars Stage

(Ganondorf, and Black Shadow is Unlocked)


Level 43-

Team All-Stars Mini-Stage

Team All-Stars vs. Team All-Stars Clones


Level 44-

Team All-Stars vs. Deathborn (Final Boss)

Story Ends

 

[majora_787]

reposting cause no one answered my question.

No. She hasn't. In Command she had an Arwing called Cloudrunner, and in Assault she used a blaster. No staff. Since Adventures. Ever. So I doubt they would use it for any real reason.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Also these are the bosses in this game I made up.

Boss Characters:

Dino Piranha

Evil Black Jewel

Sumo Kong

Usurper King Zant

Dyna Blade

Kraid

General Scales & RedEye King

Giratina

Giygas

Deathborn (Main Antagonist)

Primoid (Made up by me)

Laz-Or Cruncher (Made up by me)

Master Hand (Only Classic and Boss Battle Mode)

Crazy Hand (Only Classic and Boss Battle Mode)

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

No. She hasn't. In Command she had an Arwing called Cloudrunner, and in Assault she used a blaster. No staff. Since Adventures. Ever. So I doubt they would use it for any real reason.

thank you. It seems to me that the staff was krystal's biggest argument. But since she hasnt used it since her first game i dont see her using it in smash.

Note: I have nothing against Krystal I just like Leon more. If both could get in i would love it.

 

[darkserenade]

ZOMG BAOUWNTEE EEZ LOUW ZOMG DEKUNFRMED. What's THAT supposed to prove? The creator may think lowly of Leon, but that dude also isn't Sakurai.

Sakurai would probably chose Krystal regardless, because, as we've read before on this thread, he would pick Amy over Sonic for an easy moveset. Besides, we all know how much he loves that series. Anyway, Panther and Krystal have way more work put into their personalities.

Leon is the only character to consistently appear in the games, along with Wolf. Not to mention his addition is not only due to his mainstay in the series, but also due to balancing out the Star Fox rep list, giving two heroes and two villains. And you can't clone a reptile with a canine.

If they can do it with a bird, reptiles can't be too far off.

Again, what kind of argument is this? It's like arguing that Mario can't be in because he has a lower jump than Luigi.

Luigi is not the main character in that series. Neither is Leon, who then must go into moveset potiential, fanbase,and importance to their series to get in. In Luigi's case, however, he is much more important to his series than Leon is to his, explaining why he's in.

You're an utter moron. Leon is more important than that, seeing as how he's a part of a stage secret. I'm also pretty sure he's a trophy, too

As KumaOso said, every recurring character in Starfox is. And all of them have a trophy, too. It's not nice to call people morons, either.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sadomasochism is still a better fetish than furrie.

Okay, I see you're into that kind of stuff. At least being a furry doesn't necessarily hurt you or someone else physically.

Admit it, the staff is her pleasure toy for her night off and nothing more. Asides from that it is the exact same as a sword in the smash games and I don't see how it can be used as an argument. Guess what? Leon can turn camouflage and that is more unique than anything Krystal could ever bring. Krystal only has more significance in the newer games and Sakurai has always favored the older characters so that only works against her. If she had so much of a larger fanbase then there wouldn't be the huge Leon opposition to Krystal that there is.

Now you're just being stupid. There is nothing suggesting that her staff is something like that. Anyway, it wouldn't be like a sword much other than that it's a mid range weapon. Besides, it has other abilities and that can't be applied to any sword user except Pit and Ike to an extent.

As for Leon having camoflage abilities, it has never been said that he even has these abilities. You're just basing that on in his species. By that logic, Falco should be able to glide and have multiple jumps because he's a bird.

Sakurai has never stated that he prefers retro over modern. Otherwise, Ike, Lucario, Olimar, and Lucas wouldn't have gotten in. Anyway, Krystal definitely has a larger fanbase than Leon. Common sense just tells me this. The Leon supporters are just becoming incredibly vocal and annoying more than anything else.

 

[SmashChu]

/\ All of Skip's games are. Look at Giftpia, a game from the makers of Captain Rainbow, plus so many of the characters in CR are from Japan only titles.

Well, we did manage to get Chibi-Robo.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, we did manage to get Chibi-Robo.

I think that happened because it wasn't too absurd for Americans. I don't think the innuendo, the mystery of Birdo's gender, and that an American superhero is named Captain Rainbow would fit well in America.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Hey what do you think of the movesets I thoughted up of. Hope you like them =)

Mona
B: Baton Twirl
^B: Cheer Kick
>B: Vespa
vB: Perfume
Final Smash: Mona Pizza

Ridley
B: Flaming Breath
^B: Pteranodon Attack
>B: Claw
vB: Sky Dive
Final Smash: Meta Ridley - Omega Ridley

Krystal
B: Plasma Cannon
^B: Booster Pack
>B: Portal Device
vB: Sensor Bomb
Final Smash: Krazoa Spirits

Isaac
B: Gaia Blade
^B: Mystery Blade
>B: Grievous Blade
vB: Earth Shield
Final Smash: Grand Gaia

Lip
B: Lip's Stick
^B: Lip's Wings
>B: Lip's Block
vB: Lip's Flower
Final Smash: Panel De Pon Rise

Dixie Kong
B: Pinwheel
^B: Backflip
>B: Hair Copter
vB: Crate
Final Smash: Rock Guitar Blast

Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario
B: Paint Brush/Paint Goop
^B: Paint Copter/Vaporize
>B: Homing Shell/Paintballs
vB: Transform
Final Smash: Graffi Pollution

Waluigi
B: Mischief
^B: Waluigi Jumpkick
>B: Tennis Racket
vB: Drill Kick
Final Smash: Bob-omb Launcher

Black Shadow
B: Bull Horn
^B: Shadow Drive
>B: Dark Defender
vB: Slam Fist
Final Smash: Bull Rush

Lyndis
B: Mani Katti
^B: Sol Katti
>B: Silver Bow
vB: Counter
Final Smash: Slash Frenzy

King K. Rool
B: Knuckle Sandwich
^B: Crocodile Hurricane
>B: Boomerang Crown
vB: K. Rool Bomb
Final Smash: Kaptain K. Rool

Meowth
B: Pay Day
^B: Aerial Ace
>B: Scratch
vB: Swagger
Final Smash: Faint Attack

Paper Mario
B: Fire Flower
^B: Airplane
>B: Hammer
vB: Bump Attack
Final Smash: Supernova


What do you guys think. =)

 

[majora_787]

thank you. It seems to me that the staff was krystal's biggest argument. But since she hasnt used it since her first game i dont see her using it in smash.

Note: I have nothing against Krystal I just like Leon more. If both could get in i would love it.

I have something against her, she was a pain in the *** in assault. All the time.

But that's just personal.

Sakurai doesn't necessarily have a favorite between the two, but it's like picking between Marth and Ike.

Leon is an original member of Star Wolf and is as important as Falco. Krystal has been in three games. One where she used a staff and was pretty important, one where she wasn't even USEFUL and didn't use a staff, and yet another where she piloted an Arwing the whole time and switched sides more than a double agent. =\

It is not assumed Leon can turn invisible by his species alone, he has also been referred to as an assassin numerous times. And this is just my guess, but I would say stealth is an assassin's friend.

 

[darkserenade]

Hey what do you think of the movesets I thoughted up of. Hope you like them =)

Mona
B: Baton Twirl
^B: Cheer Kick
>B: Vespa
vB: Perfume
Final Smash: Mona Pizza
This one is really good.
Ridley
B: Flaming Breath
^B: Pteranodon Attack
>B: Claw
vB: Sky Dive
Final Smash: Meta Ridley - Omega Ridley
no offense, but it sounds like a Bowser clone.
Krystal
B: Plasma Cannon
^B: Booster Pack
>B: Portal Device
vB: Sensor Bomb
Final Smash: Krazoa Spirits
Not so fond of this one...
Isaac
B: Gaia Blade
^B: Mystery Blade
>B: Grievous Blade
vB: Earth Shield
Final Smash: Grand Gaia
Again, not so sure.
Lip
B: Lip's Stick
^B: Lip's Wings
>B: Lip's Block
vB: Lip's Flower
Final Smash: Panel De Pon Rise
I think she could be represented better, but okay.
Dixie Kong
B: Pinwheel
^B: Backflip
>B: Hair Copter
vB: Crate
Final Smash: Rock Guitar Blast
I never liked the idea of Dixie for SSB4, but this is great if she is in.
Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario
B: Paint Brush/Paint Goop
^B: Paint Copter/Vaporize
>B: Homing Shell/Paintballs
vB: Transform
Final Smash: Graffi Pollution
I love this one!
Waluigi
B: Mischief
^B: Waluigi Jumpkick
>B: Tennis Racket
vB: Drill Kick
Final Smash: Bob-omb Launcher
I don't think so,..
Black Shadow
B: Bull Horn
^B: Shadow Drive
>B: Dark Defender
vB: Slam Fist
Final Smash: Bull Rush
good.
Lyndis
B: Mani Katti
^B: Sol Katti
>B: Silver Bow
vB: Counter
Final Smash: Slash Frenzy
Good.
King K. Rool
B: Knuckle Sandwich
^B: Crocodile Hurricane
>B: Boomerang Crown
vB: K. Rool Bomb
Final Smash: Kaptain K. Rool
this is so cool...
Meowth
B: Pay Day
^B: Aerial Ace
>B: Scratch
vB: Swagger
Final Smash: Faint Attack
I always wanted Meowth over Jiggs. Amazing moveset.
Paper Mario
B: Fire Flower
^B: Airplane
>B: Hammer
vB: Bump Attack
Final Smash: Supernova
Okay.

What do you guys think. =)

You're quite good at this.

 

[SmashChu]

It's understandable. But I fail to see how Kirby having 3 reps is enough, while we continue to throw more in for many other big series.

Well, there aren't that many characters that stand out. There are characters, but a lot have come and gone save for the three in Brawl. Rick, I beleive, is really next in line for importance.

I think Sheik and Tetra being different would encourage Zelda and Toon Zelda to also be made differently. Also, I think The Legend of Zelda needs to stay on par with the Mario series, and there's really no one important enough to add other than another Toon character.

Minda is probably the next most popular Zelda character. Trust me, I was shocked to. There is nothing wrong with Toon Zelda, just saying.

What ones did you have in mind?

Rick is the only one that comes to mind. This is becuase, well, there aren't anymore characters for the franchise. Kirby, Meta, and Dedede are the most important characters are are the most predominate. Rick mainly becuase he was a large player in the last two Dreamland games. So I guess I'm wrong on my original statement.

Sakurai choses a lot of characters based on importance. Knuckle Joe doesn't fit the bill, but that's why there are Assist Trophies. I beleive he was fairly popular. Not sure how much though.

Would you prefer Krystal?

Personally, yes

Like I said above, they were almost left off the list, but added to even out the roster.

Well, how do you mean? If to even out the franchise, then I would always advise against it. Trust me on the fact that I've seen far too many people want a character solely becuase "The franchise needs representation" or "The franchise needs more characters"/ Both statements are false and never make a good roster.

Regardless of how or why, he is popular. We could use an Earthbound character with different moves, anyway.

1)He's not popular. Lucas was. He has never been popular.
2)No, we don't need another one. Mother 3 didn't have great sales and Mother 2 (Earthbound ) did awful here. The Mother fanbase (while I like them) is EXTREMLY vocal which makes it seem as if they are much larger then they are. They are also dedicated which helps this as well. There is no need for another Mother character. None of them are popular enough and the franchise isn't that big anyway.

All right, just understand that I want another FE rep. She seems the best choice given what I'm trying to acheive with that rep. Like you obviously read, I didn't feel I had a lot of choice.

True true. I thought as much.

 

[mantlecore77]

Also I made a good storyline for Adventure Mode. It is called Adventure Mode: Revenge of the Subspace Emissary. Here is the Story.

Story: Many months after the subspace in Brawl. Everyone has went back to their own lives. like Samus kept Pikachu as a pet others like that and many more. But one day. Deathborn (If you don't know him. He is from F-Zero GX) Plans a trick. He creates clone versions of the Heroes like Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, Samus and many more and orders them to attack villains like Bowser, K. Rool and more. This makes the Villains want to get back at the heroes (They don't know that they were clones) so they join Deathborn (They don't know he is the reason for this and that he got them into it) and they create a new subspace Army. So then Mario and others find out and must stop them before its too late. Also Ridley will be returning. I made this thing up that Ridley escaped from the subspace and is alive again somehow in his old body and tries to go after samus (not knowing its a clone) but after finding out he teams up with her, pikachu, and Lip. Also at the end of the subspace when everyone beats Deathborn. They all get along and also Samus and Ridley makes a Truce and they become friends and also Ridley finds a way to bring Samus's parents back to life and now they are all friends.

So what do you think of the plot.

Bold = No

DUDE! I deffinately responded to your personal thread politely telling you that you shouldn't submit complete movesets anywhere but MYM NEXT WEEK anyways.
Are you trying to ignore me and look smart or are you just not understanding what I'm saying?

EDIT: If you want to make a fanfic Supspace Story go to the Creative Minds forum... though I'm not saying that you're gonna get support, I think it would fly better there than here

 

[SmashBrosMike]

You're quite good at this.

Thank you.

 

[Ilex]

Okay, I see you're into that kind of stuff. At least being a furry doesn't necessarily hurt you or someone else physically.

I was joking, now let's end this fetish discussion.

Now you're just being stupid. There is nothing suggesting that her staff is something like that. Anyway, it wouldn't be like a sword much other than that it's a mid range weapon. Besides, it has other abilities and that can't be applied to any sword user except Pit and Ike to an extent.

What else is there to being a weapon other than how it's used and its hitboxes? Krystal fans argue that it makes her unique, but it is exactly the same as a sword. I'll give you elemental abilities, but Sakurai will probably only use her 'staff' for smash attacks and aerials and maybe one special elemental move (Exactly like Ike) so don't count on her moveset to be revolutionary.

As for Leon having camoflage abilities, it has never been said that he even has these abilities. You're just basing that on in his species. By that logic, Falco should be able to glide and have multiple jumps because he's a bird.

Falco can't fly because his wings are underdeveloped and he's wearing a jacket over top of them. Leon however is an assassin which immediately ties in with stealth and camouflage goes with the theme. I'd be shocked if Sakurai didn't give him camouflage or invisibility. You're also assuming that Krystal will be given her staff when she hasn't used it in several games. And even if he does implement the staff, it might be only for one move, not unlike Mario's FLUDD.

Sakurai has never stated that he prefers retro over modern. Otherwise, Ike, Lucario, Olimar, and Lucas wouldn't have gotten in. Anyway, Krystal definitely has a larger fanbase than Leon. Common sense just tells me this. The Leon supporters are just becoming incredibly vocal and annoying more than anything else.

Pokemon Trainer with older Pokemon were put in not because he just felt like it but because he favours the classics. Same with G&W, Ice Climber, ROB, and Pit. All of them could have been replaced with newer character but he chose not to. This is the reason that Leon will be in before Krystal.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Bold = No

DUDE! I deffinately responded to your personal thread politely telling you that you shouldn't submit complete movesets anywhere but MYM NEXT WEEK anyways.
Are you trying to ignore me and look smart or are you just not understanding what I'm saying?

EDIT: If you want to make a fanfic Supspace Story go to the Creative Minds forum... though I'm not saying that you're gonna get support, I think it would fly better there than here

You don't have to yell I just don't understand everything on here.

 

[Chief Mendez]

/\ All of Skip's games are. Look at Giftpia, a game from the makers of Captain Rainbow, plus so many of the characters in CR are from Japan only titles.

Not to mention Chibi-Robo.

I would've responded to more stuff, but I'm busy, so...

At least being a furry doesn't necessarily hurt you or someone else physically.

I am highly offended by this statement. My entire family was killed last week by a roving gang of furry bikers.

It was horrible.

Spoiler

SADOMASOCHISM FOR THE WIN

 

[SirKibble]

Well, there aren't that many characters that stand out. There are characters, but a lot have come and gone save for the three in Brawl. Rick, I beleive, is really next in line for importance.

I know. I'm in denial, though. Humor me. :/

Minda is probably the next most popular Zelda character. Trust me, I was shocked to. There is nothing wrong with Toon Zelda, just saying.

I don't really like Midna, but I guess she'd be okay...

(Have to come back to this one)

Take your time. I'm a fanatic, I'll want a good response.

Personally, yes

Fair enough. To each his own.

Well, how do you mean? If to even out the franchise, then I would always advise against it. Trust me on the fact that I've seen far too many people want a character solely becuase "The franchise needs representation" or "The franchise needs more characters"/ Both statements are false and never make a good roster.

Nope. I meant to acheive 49. I wanted 49 for aesthetic purposes on the roster's organization. The Random button makes 50, and then we could have a 5x10 roster. They were the last character I added, and just because there wasn't anyone else I really wanted.

1)He's not popular. Lucas was. He has never been popular.
2)No, we don't need another one. Mother 3 didn't have great sales and Mother 2 (Earthbound ) did awful here. The Mother fanbase (while I like them) is EXTREMLY vocal which makes it seem as if they are much larger then they are. They are also dedicated which helps this as well. There is no need for another Mother character. None of them are popular enough and the franchise isn't that big anyway.

You may have a point there. I'll conceed on that point.

True true. I thought as much.

I'd be totally willing to hear a better suggestion for a FE character, so long as they meet the criteria I listed.

 

[mantlecore77]

You don't have to yell I just don't understand everything on here.

I'm not yelling. My bad. I can understand that you don't understand everything here but I tried to respond to your thread and you kinda disregarded it completely. MYM3 was made for people like you who are ready to get their ideas out, I suggest you at least look at the thread...

I don't really like Midna, but I guess she'd be okay...

I do not understand how Midna/Wolf Link has a fanbase at all. I'm a HUGE Zelda fan and always found her the least exciting and most completely random Smash-demanded Nintendo character.
I'm not flaming any supporters but I just hope I'm not alone when I say that Midna is probably a poor idea and would either A.)blow or B.)a waste of design/space or C.) both

 

[kainsword]

Even Pigma had more of a story than Leon, so I don't understand at all why people here are so enamored with this stupid reptile.

- Pigma was originally in the StarFox team, along with a younger Peppy Hare and James McCloud.
- Pigma ratted James out to Andross, and Jame McCloud is now presumed dead since he left for Venom.
- Pigma afterwards joined StarWolf about the same time Leon did.
- Pigma and the StarWolf squadron is hired by Andross to eliminate the StarFox team.
- Pigma got kicked out of StarWolf following StarFox 64's events.
- Pigma tried to steal Aparoid technology in StarFox Assault.
- Pigma was brainwashed by the Aparoid technology and left to some interstellar space station.
- Pigma fused with aparoid creatures and the space station to create an immense boss battle.

I DARE you to name as many plot involved scenarios where Leon was a key character.

If you think a chameleon can't be cloned to be like a canine, think again. A bird can, and birds are known to be highly evolved reptiles. I'm sure a chameleon could easily do the same crap Wolf can do.

Even less, how much more unique is a skinny lizard in a spacesuit to the StarFox series than a fat slob pig who essentially took the first step into killing Fox's father?

Leon has little to no storyline importance, and while Sakurai values history, he also values character importance to the series. Why was Roy cut out? Because Roy was minimally important to the Fire Emblem series as a whole and his father Eliwood, starred in a much more important game in Fire Emblem 7.

Sakurai also doesn't at all value moveset uniqueness. Look at the F-Zero and StarFox series to see some truth. To him, it doesn't matter if they've ever done any hand to hand combat. If they are important to Nintendo, then they'll be added as a character to SSB.

You argue from the standpoint that Leon is more important than Krystal or Panther because he has a history with StarFox. Well, my point is if you want HISTORY, then recruit Pigma or Peppy Hare as a Smash candidate.

Another of my points, Leon is minimally important to the series as a whole, despite his longer history. One of the worst things you can do to a character in a videogame or any story whatsoever is to keep their character stale and without growth. Leon's character has HARDLY changed at all since Star Fox 64. The creators of StarFox have an extreme negligence to even give Leon any growth in the series and also shows his distaste in Leon by giving him a bounty that's 3x lower than Wolf and 2x lower than Panther.

If you argue by history: Peppy + Pigma + Slippy > Leon

If you argue to series importance: Krystal > Peppy > Pigma > Slippy > Leon.

It really doesn't matter if you prefer Leon. Leon has a small fanbase on forum communities ALONE. His worldwide appeal outside of the forumbase is extremely low as compared to Krystal.

The only reason Leon has a fanbase here is because people have a general distaste of fur covered animals. If there HAD to be a **** reptile in SSB4 or the world would implode, it'd be Slippy. Bar-none. Leon is less important to the StarFox series than Slippy is, and that's saying something. At the very least Slippy has the history of rushing in on the first level of most StarFox games only to be caught by enemies on his rear. And Slippy designs all of StarFox's machinery.

In order by appearance in the SSB franchise, it'll likely be:
Krystal > Slippy > Pigma > Peppy > Panther > Andross > General Pepper > Dash Bowman > Katt Monroe > Beltino (Slippy's father) > Amanda (Slippy's love interest in Command) > Anglar King > Aparoid Soldier > Anglar Soldier > Andrew Oikonny > Leon

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Oh okay then I now realize sorry then.

 

[mantlecore77]

In order by appearance in the SSB franchise, it'll likely be:
Krystal > Slippy > Pigma > Peppy > Panther > Andross > General Pepper > Dash Bowman > Katt Monroe > Beltino (Slippy's father) > Amanda (Slippy's love interest in Command) > Anglar King > Aparoid Soldier > Anglar Soldier > Andrew Oikonny > Leon

Holy crap kainsword. You did your homework. Good work.

Oh okay then I now realize sorry then.

It's all good. Welcome to Smashboards, if you've never gotten a proper welcome.

 

[darkserenade]

Falco can't fly because his wings are underdeveloped and he's wearing a jacket over top of them. Leon however is an assassin which immediately ties in with stealth and camouflage goes with the theme. I'd be shocked if Sakurai didn't give him camouflage or invisibility. You're also assuming that Krystal will be given her staff when she hasn't used it in several games. And even if he does implement the staff, it might be only for one move, not unlike Mario's FLUDD.

Falco is a bird who generally goes with the theme of flying, and coincidentally, something prevents him. I wouldn't be surprised if Leon had the same situation. Prepare to be shocked when Leon is a clone, though. Leon has never had camo in any of the games, and besides that, it would probably only be one move.

Pokemon Trainer with older Pokemon were put in not because he just felt like it but because he favours the classics. Same with G&W, Ice Climber, ROB, and Pit. All of them could have been replaced with newer character but he chose not to. This is the reason that Leon will be in before Krystal.

Let's imagine this is a murder case. The general thing is death sentence, but when in self-defense, punishments change. The same rule can't go for different situations is my point. Sorry if I'm coming off as rude.

Edit: I think Slippy is an amphibian, kainsword. Still doesn't change how right you are.