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OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!
- Thread starter Tenki
- Start date
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i tech chase and punish whiffs with side b
Bluehedgehog
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2009
- Messages
- 34
My friend just picked up G&W and hi SH aerials are bothering me, What can i DO?!
Also I just spiked my friend with HA when he was on the edge of the stage, He was at over 200% (making this kinda useless) and I HA canceled, I haven't been able to recreate this (Also making it useless), BUT i know it was a spike because the 'smoke' from his character went in a straight downward manner...
Also I just spiked my friend with HA when he was on the edge of the stage, He was at over 200% (making this kinda useless) and I HA canceled, I haven't been able to recreate this (Also making it useless), BUT i know it was a spike because the 'smoke' from his character went in a straight downward manner...
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
infomon
Smash Scientist
It's G&W.... that doesn't work. His Bair and Fair can both be spaced so he's safely out of grab range, and will just eat away at your shield (especially Bair, obv). idk if Fair is punishable from shorthop, I think it has a bit of ending lag, but probably not if it's done early enough... but with spacing I don't think we have anything on it.
So idk
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
ug you people are ****ing ******** sometimes.It's G&W.... that doesn't work. His Bair and Fair can both be spaced so he's safely out of grab range, and will just eat away at your shield (especially Bair, obv). idk if Fair is punishable from shorthop, I think it has a bit of ending lag, but probably not if it's done early enough... but with spacing I don't think we have anything on it.
So idk
patience is a virtue, you should be held in your shield until you're safe enough to respond to his SH aerials. its really all about the pattern that your opponent is displaying, then thusly responding accordingly.
you also have to think about the options you have out of shield, shieldgrabbing is not the only thing that you can do out of a shield.
you also have to think about what out ranges G&W's attacks. and if no one has ever caught it, game and watch's moves lag like a mother ****ing if they aren't auto cancelled, or the animation is fully gone through, or whatever you want to call it.
infomon
Smash Scientist
Fair is maybe punishable from its landing lag off a shorthop... but I'm not convinced Sonic can do anything to a G&W's shorthopped Bair if it's spaced alright. He'll be at Ftilt length at best, but that's too slow to hit necessarily... same with dash attack. What is it I'm doing wrong?
I guess we should recognize that such good spacing probably required that the G&W be closer in for the start of the Bair, and drift away with it. So yeah, you best find a pattern in the G&W's behaviour..... but if he's got your shield with a turtle, I don't think we can really retaliate other than to get away to let our shield restore before it happens again.
I guess we should recognize that such good spacing probably required that the G&W be closer in for the start of the Bair, and drift away with it. So yeah, you best find a pattern in the G&W's behaviour..... but if he's got your shield with a turtle, I don't think we can really retaliate other than to get away to let our shield restore before it happens again.
Kinzer
Mammy
You're doing it wrong Fizzy.It's G&W.... that doesn't work. His Bair and Fair can both be spaced so he's safely out of grab range, and will just eat away at your shield (especially Bair, obv). idk if Fair is punishable from shorthop, I think it has a bit of ending lag, but probably not if it's done early enough... but with spacing I don't think we have anything on it.
So idk
I support this, minus the flame of another veteran Sonic boarder. G&W has lag, and like anything else with lag, Sonic will be able to punish it.
You're still donig it wrong Fizzy.
FTilt is nice, very nice indeed.
Now if you want to punish a G&W's predictable use of Bair, hit him before he can do it, like with a SpinDash method, or if you really want to be silly go with a falling Bair or a Dair from a high spot.
That works with an idiot, have somebody who is using Bair smart, you should just listen to MemphisFlames.
Have a problem with your shield being drained? Just do what you said and run away and let it restore. It's also scary how a SDR approach works on this guy from that retreated distance, you will get right under his SH bair if not behind him, and the SDJ will hit him out easily followed by whatever you want to do from there on out.
This is Kinzer giving advice, don't take it too seriously now, he could be wrong.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I have a question, because this would have gotten me killed if my friend wasn't nice to not edgehog me. (he went "thats ****ed up O_o, I'll let you recover..." when this happened.
I did a down-B, and tried to shield-cancel it at the edge (lol, probably ********) and it.... kept going, I turned left, turned right, and it ended right before the edge.
I then came to the stopping animation, and slid off of the edge of FD, all the way to the blast zone in the bottom (FAR BOTTOM) right hand corner.
I was able to second jump, and spring + aerial to recover, BARELY.
Anyone want to explain why this went 10000x farther then normal? (normal when you come to the stop, its like 1/3 the distance I went...)
I did a down-B, and tried to shield-cancel it at the edge (lol, probably ********) and it.... kept going, I turned left, turned right, and it ended right before the edge.
I then came to the stopping animation, and slid off of the edge of FD, all the way to the blast zone in the bottom (FAR BOTTOM) right hand corner.
I was able to second jump, and spring + aerial to recover, BARELY.
Anyone want to explain why this went 10000x farther then normal? (normal when you come to the stop, its like 1/3 the distance I went...)
Actually, infzy just brought that up in the side-B/down-B thread.
it has to do with SDR's "time-out" screech stop, where you'll screech stop and "decelerate" as you're on the ground.
In this case, SDR ended just as you got to the edge, so you didn't really have any "ground" to "decelerate" on and went flying off the edge in screech-stop mode.
it has to do with SDR's "time-out" screech stop, where you'll screech stop and "decelerate" as you're on the ground.
In this case, SDR ended just as you got to the edge, so you didn't really have any "ground" to "decelerate" on and went flying off the edge in screech-stop mode.
~TBS~
Smash Champion
see, this is tricky, if not understood well. if you were turning, you should have stopped during the ending animation of the dash ASAP, no sliding at all, just a screechstop. As to why you were so much farther, that is hax, unheard of, actually. And why didn't it shield cancel? If you dont turn during the down-B, obviously, Sonic has to screech stop, and slide for a bit. He shouldn't be sliding that far, let alone, sliding far enough to go to the blast lines. I am going out of the way here, but I will say this: the game screwed up for a second, thats all i can think of. 1, you didn't cancel your ASC. 2, why did the game leave you in the screech stop animation so long? I can give you a solid answer except for that...
EDIT: tenki beat me to it. shoot, popping up out of nowhere.
EDIT: tenki beat me to it. shoot, popping up out of nowhere.
i have a question ive just played this pro sonic player online his name is art and he did some trick that he ran off the ledge did a spin dash and got back on the stage by rolling onto the edge and continuing the roll from there. how do i do that??
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
Umm...side-b towards the ledge immediately after leaving it?
Kinzer
Mammy
It's possible, Ive had that done that to myself too... as for not being able to shield-cancel... you can't do that if you're holding the opposite direction as to where Sonic is facing, or the command won't go through.
Only thing I can think of as to why it didn't work at the time.
One thing's for sure though, never end the duration at the very edge of the stage, I always turn just before I hit the border.
Only thing I can think of as to why it didn't work at the time.
One thing's for sure though, never end the duration at the very edge of the stage, I always turn just before I hit the border.
Super_Sonic8677
Smash Lord
This happens to me semi frequently, though I have yet to do it on purpose..but I haven't tried that hard to do it either XD And it doesn't have to be the the ledge. I've done an ASC in the middle of battlefield and though I attempted to sheild cancel it,(wifi lol) it continued like a Fully Charged spin dash roll and Sonic entered the screech stop animation state once he left the main platorm. I ended up hitting the bottom corner blastline lol
If it happens again I'll make sure I record it so you guys can see it. But I think Tenki's theory is likely dead on as Sonic is always in the screech stop animation when this occurs.
If it happens again I'll make sure I record it so you guys can see it. But I think Tenki's theory is likely dead on as Sonic is always in the screech stop animation when this occurs.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Wifi -_- don't you just love it for Sonic? (Sonic's my only "horribly butchered online" character)
Basically what happened to you, happened to me on FD...
I'm going to try and recreate it.
AvoiD
Smash Lord
Nevermind lol.
B_AWAL
Smash Master
O... A better Sonic thread... Since the other 1 got closed... this is awesome!!!
Boxob.
Smash Lord
B_AWAL
Smash Master
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm........... Yeah I just got an infraction................
But anyways,
Something I've been thinking about....
chasing opponents with Bair and Fair off the stage
Fair for smaller chars and Bair for bigger chars?
Also, how do I immediately grab the edge with Sonic? It only works sometimes... :-/
But anyways,
Something I've been thinking about....
chasing opponents with Bair and Fair off the stage
Fair for smaller chars and Bair for bigger chars?
Also, how do I immediately grab the edge with Sonic? It only works sometimes... :-/
infomon
Smash Scientist
That's how it usually goes down, although it's more dependent on the timing/spacing to land whichever you'd prefer. Can also depend on staleness and whatnot.
That's covered in this, at around 2:25:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=OsPU6nCm5iI
B_AWAL
Smash Master
Thanx, Although I hope that THIS isn't a useless post...
I'm glad U showed me that cuz It makes chars like Marth, Sheik and MK easier to gimp. Although there aren't any astounding MK's in the GA and FL region.
I thought Bair doesn't go bad tho, its always the angle... I think... O well.
Any1 else having an issue fighting and beating GREAT Wario and Olimar Players? I FINALLY learned how to fight Snake and him and D3 are the 2 BIGGEST pains in the ***. Those are the two main characters I have issues with (Wario can a 0 to death combo if have issues with his fart is timed properly.) And if Olimar has less damaga than U all he has 2 do is B GAY and camp by throwing Pikmin and pivit grabing whenever I come in with speed. If I happen to get past that I have to punish and NOT get hit which is NOT EZ :-/
infomon
Smash Scientist
Aaaaabsolutely, it's crucial to Sonic's game IMO.
Yeah, Wario and Olimar are tough matchups IMO. idk what to do about them
B_AWAL
Smash Master
Well, I haven't had much of a problem wit those chars tho... I beat Sheiks and MK's easier than Marths for some reason.... Sonic's Uair owns MK :-)Aaaaabsolutely, it's crucial to Sonic's game IMO.
Yeah, Wario and Olimar are tough matchups IMO. idk what to do about them
I'm starting to think that I might HAVE to use 2nds in tourneys from now on... I was really lookin forward to being a Sonic main but I only win if other people beat freaking Wario and Olimar users...
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
What's a Hadouken :O
B_AWAL
Smash Master
down to forward motion when ur goin along the edge with the controller.
If U've ever player street fighter as RYU or KEN then did teh haduken then thats how U hug
If U've ever player street fighter as RYU or KEN then did teh haduken then thats how U hug
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
... You mean tilting your control stick half a circle, from the point you run to the back?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
as soon as you run off the edge, input the down to forward motion on your control stick, (forward being toward the stage in this example) you will instantly grab the ledge if you are fast enough
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
Forward movement is unnecessary.
You only have to fast fall it.
You only have to fast fall it.
4nace
Smash Ace
Some Questions
So I've been reading these boards for about a year now, and have been maining Sonic for a while. I play Sonic exclusively offline, and can handle pretty much all the tech thanks to previously playing yoshi and falco in melee tourneys.
I'm about to enter my first brawl tourney. A big one too. M2K, Sethlon and SK92 are all going to be there along with others. Feb 8 in Philly.
My questions are-
1. Whats the best way to go about Zelda and her sweet spot approaches combined with that side-B spam. I have yet to see a good sonic fight a good zelda on youtube, and one of my friends. Sonic seems at a bigger disadvantage that the match-up thread let on, as I did not learn too much about that match-up on that thread.
2. Are there any negative effects of using down b spinshot instead of side b spinshot in the air. I still slip on the side b one occasionally and dont want to risk it in a tourney if they are virtually the same. I mean same time to charge and release.
3. Is Sonic's roll good for mind games since you can side B to increase it, or as in melee is rolling just as predictable as every other character and should be avoided?
- Thanks 4nace.
I'll upload any videos I can from the tournament =)
So I've been reading these boards for about a year now, and have been maining Sonic for a while. I play Sonic exclusively offline, and can handle pretty much all the tech thanks to previously playing yoshi and falco in melee tourneys.
I'm about to enter my first brawl tourney. A big one too. M2K, Sethlon and SK92 are all going to be there along with others. Feb 8 in Philly.
My questions are-
1. Whats the best way to go about Zelda and her sweet spot approaches combined with that side-B spam. I have yet to see a good sonic fight a good zelda on youtube, and one of my friends. Sonic seems at a bigger disadvantage that the match-up thread let on, as I did not learn too much about that match-up on that thread.
2. Are there any negative effects of using down b spinshot instead of side b spinshot in the air. I still slip on the side b one occasionally and dont want to risk it in a tourney if they are virtually the same. I mean same time to charge and release.
3. Is Sonic's roll good for mind games since you can side B to increase it, or as in melee is rolling just as predictable as every other character and should be avoided?
- Thanks 4nace.
I'll upload any videos I can from the tournament =)
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
1. Zelda wont be approaching in the first place. Sonic is too fast to be hit by her side-b.
So ususally, the opponent will release ahead of Sonic. Be unpredictable with your dash. staggering your dash should mess up their side-b game. Try walking once in a while.
2. down-b spinshot is faster by a couple of frames. Negative effects really depend on your playstyle. Overall, there arent really any negative effects.
3. You really shouldn't roll more than you have to. I dont see any mindgames in using it.
infomon
Smash Scientist
You can just attack Zelda's fire to destroy it; it's kinda silly like that. Sonic's Fair beats it.
.... that's one of the first things I learned from the Sonicboards, back when I was but a wee steakling..... mwaha.
Edit: I used to think that Zelda was a horrible matchup, but that's because I wasn't very good at Smash in general. Her smashes are laggy; she can use them if she predicts you'll be coming into her zone. A good example is if you're falling to the stage after you've used your second jump, or worse after up-B. You just have to know how to get in safely; when to airdodge, how to fake-out the position of your landing, or go for an edge. Little things like that actually help the matchup work pretty well for us, IMO; Zelda's got some powerful but slow moves, a predictable and gimpable recovery, and slow movement speed all around.
.... that's one of the first things I learned from the Sonicboards, back when I was but a wee steakling..... mwaha.
Edit: I used to think that Zelda was a horrible matchup, but that's because I wasn't very good at Smash in general. Her smashes are laggy; she can use them if she predicts you'll be coming into her zone. A good example is if you're falling to the stage after you've used your second jump, or worse after up-B. You just have to know how to get in safely; when to airdodge, how to fake-out the position of your landing, or go for an edge. Little things like that actually help the matchup work pretty well for us, IMO; Zelda's got some powerful but slow moves, a predictable and gimpable recovery, and slow movement speed all around.
waaait.Forward movement is unnecessary.
You only have to fast fall it.
don't you have problems doing insta-edgehog?
fastfall + press towards stage.
Works for me.
1. Side-B? Run, shield. Close range? Walk, shield. If your Zelda players are really unwise and try to sweetspot you when you're on the ground, just shield and release right away (if she sweetspots your shield, she'll be stuck in hitlag and you can start an F-air right away).
2. No negative effects, aside from fastfall (arguable, but it might mess you up). But that only happens if you're starting down-B as you're falling.
3. Side-B doesn't increase the roll distance. If you're referring to the 'super roll', it's an illusion that occurs because your side-B while running does all of the slide you'd get from just shielding - but all at once.
Sonic can do some 'unpredictable' or 'confusing' rolls from a partly charged side-B, or from running forward and either shield+roll backwards or run>side-B>shield roll backwards.
B_AWAL
Smash Master
1. When fighting GOOD Zelda's stay away from them or block if the are close to you and in the air(whether your in air or on the ground) because it is easy for them to toe opponents for some god forsaken reason. Aside from that, follow advice from others in this thread.
2. Do down B spinshot. It's easier and uses less buttons(side B and jump after U time it right or down B and forward on the C-stick... the 2nd is easier)
3. Sonic is the mind game king in Brawl. 1 thing U can do is side B and immediately use block. U'll hear the spinball noise but there will be no spinball. From there U can grab or roll back and forth or attack with any of Ur moves.
Ravener
Smash Apprentice
I know this is a nooby question and probably a pretty stupid one but can SC and SB be sheild grabbed?
Nixernator
Smash Ace
Sorry if this is nooby or obvious, but what are the best ways to set up sonic's grabs? Like getting into position and such, I've read that grabs are a really big part of sonic's punishment game but I've never really used them much.
by SB, if you mean side-B, yes, they can be shieldgrabbed.
Even pivot grabbed.
If your opponent is landing, you can try running towards them, tapping shield to protect yourself from an aerial and get a shieldgrab. Just be careful of doing this to people with multi airjumps.
one that works on alot of people unfamiliar with the matchup is charging side-B, waiting for the opponent to move towards you, and doing a shieldcancel-grab.
I hear that conditioning your opponent to react to running shield-grabs (by spotdodging) then doing delayed grabs to grab them out of spotdodge can be an effective tactic.
But yeah, basically if your opponent misses anything that has anywhere around half a second cooldown or more, you can probably grab it.
Nixernator
Smash Ace
Also I've been messing around with running up to people and shield-cancelling side-b grabbing, most people immediately shield when they hear the noise is this a good approach technique? Like running up using side-b immediately to a shield-grab.
~TBS~
Smash Champion
it is. just dont overuse it, because opponents will catch on to it. not everyone will shield when they hear Sonic's side B. some of them are brave enough to attack you, but since you are shielding, you can shield the attack, then grab OoS. It is a win-win situation, just as long as they dont catch on. >_>
Orange_Soda_Man
Smash Ace
but you want them to catch onto it. That's when you actually use it, without canceling going into the SDR. You punish them for thinking you're not doing something you're really actually doing.
Mind Mind Games 0_o
[read: use discretion. If you want to grab them, yeah you're not gonna want to do it too much. But if you don't care and want to score a free hit, then doing this works too.]