OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[illinialex24]

Hey guys, holy crap these boards are active. And I'm still riding that steak.

And funny story... I was just trying to finish boss battles with every character so I'm playing a ******** CPU Sonic. Normally every CPU I have seen has done something crazy recently I taught it, like my Link now pivot walks a quarter of the time, my Ness and Lucas double stick DI to avoid a standing infinite (tested in regular Brawl to make sure it wasn't some weird thing) and other AT's. Anyway, my Sonic just used his B-side and suicided right off the side of Green Hill Zone. I don't think I taught him that well lol

 

[Jim Morrison]

lmao, that's a level 1 CPU i presume?
Why are you playing a CPU Sonic if you wanna finish Boss Battles with every char (I DID IT)

 

[Tenki]

How do you do a reverse forward smash out of a stutter step?

And what's the best way to do an instant edge hog? Street fighter reference? Sorry, I know this was answered before...

:/

for my intents and purposes, my notation is this:

- means you're doing it quickly (like, the speed you'd do a dashdance pivot)
+ means you're doing them at the same time.
> means you're waiting until you can do your next input (either IASA or waiting for the move to finish)

[1] Well, first off, know how to do a reverse stutter-step:

Reverse stutter-step:
[back]-[forward]+[a]

So if you're going to reverse forward smash out of a stutter step, then you'd be doing:

[forward] > [forward] > ... > [forward]-[back]+[a]

[2] [run off edge] - (immediately after) [fastfall] - [press towards edge]

to practice the [down]-[back], just shield-roll to the edge then quickly roll your thumb:
[forward]-[down]-[back]

The next part comes with being able to do the instant edgehog out of a run, and that's just a matter of timing the [down]-[back] right.

 

[illinialex24]

lmao, that's a level 1 CPU i presume?
Why are you playing a CPU Sonic if you wanna finish Boss Battles with every char (I DID IT)

It was classic lol and so I was playing against him because I was forced to in the random selection on Green Hill Zone. And he just went, hit me with his B-side and immediately jumped and kept on going forward and SDed lmao.

 

[Teran]

How would you rate a combination of Falco and Sonic at a tournament?
When my exams have finished I'm gonna start hitting some tourneys, and I'm going exclusively Steak Sandwich. Apart from Marth, I don't see a big issue with matchups, what do you guys think?

 

[da K.I.D.]

for doubles, i think that would be an average team

neither can kill well

sonic is so fast that he might get in the way of falcos lasers.
but sonic can go offstage and save falco if he needs help recovering.

if you are talking about a main and a secondary for singles for a tourney, i think that would be a good combo, since falco can take care of teh majority of characters on his own and you can just bring in sonic to mess with people who either dont know the matchup or are style counters to your particular falco.

 

[Teran]

for doubles, i think that would be an average team

neither can kill well

sonic is so fast that he might get in the way of falcos lasers.
but sonic can go offstage and save falco if he needs help recovering.

if you are talking about a main and a secondary for singles for a tourney, i think that would be a good combo, since falco can take care of teh majority of characters on his own and you can just bring in sonic to mess with people who either dont know the matchup or are style counters to your particular falco.

I was talking about the latter.
And yeah I was thinking that, but I don't feel that I should go majority Falco since it's not uncommon for my Sonic to outperform him due to his slippery nature. So yeah I guess the style counter thing is the main part, and Sonic does that really well.
Marth is lame though >__>

 

[Chis]

for my intents and purposes, my notation is this:

- means you're doing it quickly (like, the speed you'd do a dashdance pivot)
+ means you're doing them at the same time.
> means you're waiting until you can do your next input (either IASA or waiting for the move to finish)

[1] Well, first off, know how to do a reverse stutter-step:

Reverse stutter-step:
[back]-[forward]+[a]

So if you're going to reverse forward smash out of a stutter step, then you'd be doing:

[forward] > [forward] > ... > [forward]-[back]+[a]

[2] [run off edge] - (immediately after) [fastfall] - [press towards edge]

to practice the [down]-[back], just shield-roll to the edge then quickly roll your thumb:
[forward]-[down]-[back]

The next part comes with being able to do the instant edgehog out of a run, and that's just a matter of timing the [down]-[back] right.

Thanks Tenki.

 

[Camalange]

In an attempt to keep this on the front page for newbies, I'm going to bring up random things here.

--I learned to instant ledgehog perfectly :D
I am no longer a man. I am now steak.

--You know that crazy thing were Sonic can do a "Slow Run" out of a foxtrot and actually run on the edge? Well, from that, you can go straight into an instant ledgehog. Mindgames?

--We all know that Sonic's screech stop has IASA frames which allows him to go from running into a standard attack very easily...well...I noticed something silly. If you do it perfectly, you can run and circles and as your making the "turnaround" lightly let up on the joystick and go back into performing the "turnaround" (I don't know how else to explain it >_>)

If you're doing it correctly, Sonic will basically keep running at the same speed, but as he turns, he'll make the screech stop sound without fully screech stopping (I know you can already cut it short by jabbing or something, but whiled doing it durig a tornaround it's REALLY short...it's rarely visible).

Sonic's run properties are so odd.

 

[Browny]

Sonic has more techs in his dash animation than most characters have AT's for their entire moveset lol

 

[thecatinthehat]

In an attempt to keep this on the front page for newbies, I'm going to bring up random things here.

--I learned to instant ledgehog perfectly :D
I am no longer a man. I am now steak.

CiTH is proud.

It only took you a couple of months, but nonetheless, I'm proud of you.

 

[Kinzer]

Too bad this wasy already kinda on the first page. >.>

 

[Camalange]

Sonic has more techs in his dash animation than most characters have AT's for their entire moveset lol

QFT

CiTH is proud.

It only took you a couple of months, but nonetheless, I'm proud of you.

QFT

Too bad this wasy already kinda on the first page. >.>

And we must keep it there, silly.



So yeah, do you think any of this stuff is interesting/useful? lol

 

[Tenki]

--We all know that Sonic's screech stop has IASA frames which allows him to go from running into a standard attack very easily...well...I noticed something silly. If you do it perfectly, you can run and circles and as your making the "turnaround" lightly let up on the joystick and go back into performing the "turnaround" (I don't know how else to explain it >_>)

If you're doing it correctly, Sonic will basically keep running at the same speed, but as he turns, he'll make the screech stop sound without fully screech stopping (I know you can already cut it short by jabbing or something, but whiled doing it durig a tornaround it's REALLY short...it's rarely visible).

Sonic's run properties are so odd.

lol i remember that one.

dNES brought that up to me months ago in a wifi match.

and I was like "what are you doing?"

and he was like "there! did you notice something when I turned around?"

"IASA?"

"noooo. I'm running and when I stop, I hit back on the C-stick."

"Run > F-smash?"

"no"

and it went on for a really long time, until he was like "don't you hear it?" and i said "oh, i was playing with sound off, lol"

And really, it turns out you can just [run]>[let go]-[tap back] (you have to tap back quickly after you let go)

 

[Kinzer]

This has been on my mind for quite sometime, and frankly I can't figure it out.

Can somebody help me realise what is the difference between Side-B and Down-B iSDR and ISDR (Instant/invincible), what their properties are, etc.

The works, you know... tell me everything there is to know about the both of them, I want to know every fine detail so I don't mess up when and if I try to use this in real battles.

 

[Tenki]

This has been on my mind for quite sometime, and frankly I can't figure it out.

Can somebody help me realise what is the difference between Side-B and Down-B iSDR and ISDR (Instant/invincible), what their properties are, etc.

The works, you know... tell me everything there is to know about the both of them, I want to know every fine detail so I don't mess up when and if I try to use this in real battles.

there is no instant SDR. There's invincible spindash roll and an instant spindash jump - iSDR and ISDJ (or iSDJ).

But either way, they're totally different cases with different properties from each other. iSDJ is just like a normal SDJ.

iSDR is everything a normal SDR is, except you go through transcendent hitboxes (ex: disjointed aerials, Metaknight). Certain grounded moves can clang cancel you though.

Oh, and on some stages (I didn't fully explore the requirements), when you roll off, iSDR can either become an iASC (invincible ASC) with normal fall properties, or an airdash (which is still an iASC, except it flies straight)

 

[Kinzer]

You sure there's no instant SDR Tenki? what about Yoshi's isle (either one, since both have that angle at which if you released it, you would go into a SDR from the start, and not the SD-hop)

How do you get it where you do an airdash? I usually end up with the iASC (though I only try to perform this stuff on like Yoshi's and the back of the boat on RC since I know the wierd junk happens there).

Also what's an instant SDJ, is that just a VSDJ right after a SD or a SC? (I'm not sure if it works for both or which one it only works for, correct me where I am wrong please).

One more simple thing... how can I tell which "I" stands for which abbreviation? Is the lowercased "I" instant or invincible?

 

[Camalange]

Tenki, don't even call ISDJ by the lowercase "i" way because that's way to confusing.

i = invincible
I = Instant

Speaking of silly things you can do with SDRs and shtuff, I did a spinshot off a platform while doing a SDR.
I was like "zomg" because I forgot you could do that.

Steak.

 

[infomon]

--You know that crazy thing were Sonic can do a "Slow Run" out of a foxtrot and actually run on the edge? Well, from that, you can go straight into an instant ledgehog. Mindgames?

Oh that's really cool lol. There's other weird mindgames you could do with it, now that I think about it. But I definitely lack the slightly-tilting-the-control-stick techskill for this

I'm not sure about that IASA / screeh-stop thing, but if the only advantage is the screech-stop sound, it's not worth it, since noone really gets psyched out by sounds except (as far as I can tell) me

How do you get it where you do an airdash? I usually end up with the iASC (though I only try to perform this stuff on like Yoshi's and the back of the boat on RC since I know the wierd junk happens there).

Depends on level and the incline. Try things out elsewhere, like the sides of Pictochat.

Also what's an instant SDJ, is that just a VSDJ right after a SD or a SC? (I'm not sure if it works for both or which one it only works for, correct me where I am wrong please).

ISDJ is just an SDJ (forward-moving, not a VSDJ) that you start immediately from the down-B charging state. While charging down-B, hit up on the c-stick. Or just hit up on the control-stick, if you're fast with it (if you're slow, then obviously you'll start a bit of an SDR first before you go into the SDJ).

 

[Kinzer]

Oh yeah, now I know what the acronym for THAT is!

So many tricks possible in just two moves... it's silly.

Also aren't the sounds that some of the SD/SC make suppose to fake people out, Infzy?

Even me who plays Sonic as dedicated can sometimes go "WTF is he going to do next?!" if I get another ditto match with a Sonic who is very technical like that.

 

[Camalange]

Moar Fun with Camalange!

--From Edge: Wall Jump > Fair > Reverse Spring > Dair > Grab edge = Possible edgeguard trick?

--Recovering: SideB INTO stage > Jump Cancel-Wall Jump > Bair (hit opponent) > Grab edge

--ASC hit > ASCSC > Utilt

--On Bigger opponents > Sourspot Bair > Grab

Fun fun fun!

 

[darkNES386]

I like that first one Camalange. I feel like the recovery is too risky if they chase. What is ASCSC? I like that one. The question is what follow up is most rewarding once you connect with the ASC at low percentages?

Oh yeah, now i know what the acronym for THAT is!

So many tricks possible in just two moves... it's silly.

Also aren't the sounds that some of the SD/SC make suppose to fake people out, Infzy?

Even me who plays Sonic as dedicated can sometimes go "WTF is he going to do next?!" if I get another ditto match with a Sonic who is very technical like that.

Yeah the sounds are similar which is why you want to try to look at the start up animation. Remember that the fb will halt all momentum sideways and slowly move back. The aura will also be more spiky. The down b will move however sonic's jump would have or just sit in place on the ground. Additionally, it will pulse instead of have the rotating spikes. Of course once it's released they both have the same animation cause they're no longer the same move on the ground!

which is which?! oh man!

 

[Camalange]

I like that first one Camalange.

Still not too sure how well it works yet, I just know it looks sexy XD

I feel like the recovery is too risky if they chase.

Probably :/

What is ASCSC?

lmao scrub <3

I like that one. The question is what follow up is most rewarding once you connect with the ASC at low percentages?

Well, when I was using it, I don't think it's all that great of an option, but if you're always doing ASC >SDR> SDJ, it's a good mix up. It could probably also work well to get opponents up in the air (like ROB ;o) and abuse Uair.

It only really works at low %s though, but always good to know.

which is which?! oh man!

First one is DownB, second one is SideB!

I wins!

 

[Lawz.]

i see too much Camalange

 

[Camalange]

Moar Fun with Camalange + SM5!

--Recovering: SideB INTO stage > Jump Cancel-Wall Jump > Bair (hit opponent) > Grab edge

Okay, so I tried this, but I did it from the ledge. I did it like this...

-Grab Edge
-Fall and hold towards stage
-Wall Jump
-Bair

BUT...SM5 is psychic and grabbed me out of the wall jump before I could even get out the Bair...twice...both times I tried >_>

So at first, I'm thinking "Okay, SM5 is just too Steak to go for these shenanigans" but then I thought about something...

I was GRABBED out of wall jump...NEAR the ledge.

Now, I may have possibly just been too close to the edge after the wall jump that put me in range from the grab...but if I recall correctly...I think he grabbed me IMMEDIATLEY AFTER the wall jump. I didn't even get to input the Bair.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, I might have to do some more testing but...

Sonic has mad grab range from the ledge? Maybe? BBQ hax?

Or does Sonic just massively extend his "hurtbox" when he wall jumps?

Or am I just clinically insane and need some sleep so I can think clearly?

Discuss.

 

[infomon]

Hmmm, that's interesting and worth testing.

Another question: Can we safely wall-jump > aerial > side-B onto the stage? Say, on battlefield (since we can walljump fairly high there)? I'm pretty sure it's impossible on FD sadly, but it'd be pretty cool on BF / YI:B / etc. Since it's much more common to wall-jump after we've lost our midair jump already, the side-B has to make it onto the stage else death.

 

[Camalange]

Another question: Can we safely wall-jump > aerial > side-B onto the stage? Say, on battlefield (since we can walljump fairly high there)? I'm pretty sure it's impossible on FD sadly, but it'd be pretty cool on BF / YI:B / etc. Since it's much more common to wall-jump after we've lost our midair jump already, the side-B has to make it onto the stage else death.

See, that's basically what I was trying to do. I was on Battlefield when he grabbed me out of the wall jump both times. I was thinking "Hm, he won't expect a wall jump to aerial from the ledge!" but then he just grabbed me out of the wall jump.

Which sucks because then you have no jumps left so it forces you to spring.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

I dunno where better to ask this, since, well, I'm getting ready for MM14 and stuff. That said ... there are a TON of banned stages. So much so that evaluating those that remain feels very different from how I would evaluate the stage list for other tourneys. Here it is for reference:
Starters(Set to Random)
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Counter Picks
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Lylat Cruise
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 1
Rainbow Cruise

I'm thinking about getting good at Frigate Orpheon and using that as a general CP stage to compliment FD and Smashville, and banning Jungle Japes generally. Thoughts? What would you do?

 

[Jim Morrison]

MK says hai2u

Seriously, lrn2Brinstar, and against Wario you pick something else, like PS1

 

[Kinzer]

Ban Japes, and you're good to go.

Really though what also matters is your opponents preference, if you know he/she hates another stage that isn't the one they banned, go for it, otherwise you can't go wrong with Sonic since he's a pretty adaptable little Hedgehog.

Most people lack Brinstar experience.

YI let's you iSDR in case you ever fight a MK.

Frigate is another stage that tends to screw over people more than it would you. Apply Lylat into the same scenario.

Just the things I like about some of the stages from the top of my head.

 

[tlinkmaster1231]

Nice thread. It helps a lot.

 

[darkNES386]

Uncertain Opinion
You should like
Depends on matchup

Consider banning rainbow cruise cause Sonic generally will struggle here. Norfair is in my opinion a great counter against a character like Diddy Kong because it destroys his 'naner game. Additionally, a level like Norfair is easy for Sonic to get around fast. Honestly, smashville and and lylat should be where you take most opponents (IMO). R.O.B.s will like stages like Jungle Japes and possibly rainbow cruise so be careful. Honestly though, just remember Sonic is fastest on the ground, so even stages like delfino, halberd and even pictochat generally have lots of ground. If you are playing someone with a strong aerial game like MK or game and watch, stay away from stages that force you to jump around a lot. (Brinstar, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise).

I dunno where better to ask this, since, well, I'm
getting ready for MM14 and stuff. That said ... there are a TON of banned stages. So much so that evaluating those that remain feels very different from how I would evaluate the stage list for other tourneys. Here it is for reference:
Starters(Set to Random)
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Counter Picks
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Lylat Cruise
Norfair
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 1
Rainbow Cruise

I'm thinking about getting good at Frigate Orpheon and using that as a general CP stage to compliment FD and Smashville, and banning Jungle Japes generally. Thoughts? What would you do?

 

[da K.I.D.]

oh snap, i am LOVING this stage list.

stage sonic should be CPing
frigate
halberd
rainbow cruise
Final D

Stages sonic should avoid.
Lylat
Battlefield
pictochat (IMO, sonics worst stage)

the rest are matchup dependant
dont go bf against snake
Ban Japes against rob falco and peach.
CP fattys and bad recoveries to RC
ban brinstar against DK and wario.
lylat is worse for spacies than it is for sonic.
CP Ike, ivy, oli, and other tethers to frigate.


stuff like that.

 

[Kinzer]

I don't really see why Picto is bad for Sonic nuless you like to fall into Ike FSmash and are too slow to avoid the hazards.

Without them it's like a Pkmn Stadium with the same ceiling blastzone, and very clsoe side-blastzones.

Lylat is also good because if it's a neutral stage, some opponents and their characters really hate the lips, and we all know about Sonic's awesome recovery.

I hate Battlefield though, I am happy when my opponents don't ban FD on me or something like that.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I really like Rainbow Cruise and Picto. >.> Also I don't like Green Greens that much. I'm freaking weird. =P

 

[RyuKen!]

hey just wondering can sonic dash dance?

 

[Chis]

Yes he can. Why wouldn't he?

 

[RyuKen!]

Yes he can. Why wouldn't he?

Because i havent't seen a sonic dash dance and i can't seem to do it.

 

[Chis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjS1D1GKO24&feature=channel

2:00 onwards.

 

[RyuKen!]

Its saying video is no longer available.