Official Snake Q&A Area

[JTsm]

She racks damage up quickly, hence, you have more knock-back. The pressure game of sheik is more frightening then you may think.

Pulling a nade in between tilts is something I haven't done. Does that really work?

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Yeah it works for f-tilt locks and what not.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Can someone break down the shiek mu for me please

When you get hit... press b.

When sheik is approaching you, grenade grab.

When sheik is throwing needles, get some reaction time and shield.

When sheik is juggling you don/t be afraid to just throw out bair every now and then.

Snake has a faster and longer range f-tilt.

Never use ftilt 2 on shield.

Don't even worry about using uptilt to kill, just knock us off stage and hold jab near the ledge.

Pivot Grab more.

Snake can out camp sheik by pulling grenades in the air, and using his stupid frame adv to power shield needles.

Dash attack is dumb.

Nair beats all of our approaches from the air.

Hold up when you get hit.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

MVD, I'm sure you can break it down pretty well. Most of what tutu said is slot on.

 

[luxingo]

If I correctly predict that an opponent will roll behind me after a dthrow, on what characters will a buffered fsmash hit?

 

[Attila_]

None.

It's unfortunate.

 

[luxingo]

Seriously? I've hit with it before though. Maybe because they buffered another dodge and I hit them in their vulnerable frames.

Perhaps sticking them with C4 might be a better high risk/high reward option.

 

[Ken Neth]

If they hesitate before rolling or in shielding after they roll is the only way that could work. Fsmash is too slow

 

[Bonds]

Your opponent can act 1 frame before you. Fsmash is frame 41, so for you to get a guaranteed fsmash on a read a character's back roll would have to travel a very short distance in 42 frames or more. Most rolls end in about 30 frames regardless of distance. You can probably get a sticky on the really short ones, but I would still recommend ftilt or a regrab over that option

 

[-LzR-]

I think all rolls have the same frame data. At least I read something like that in the GW boards techchasing thread. Only the distance and how fast the roll moves is different, but the frames don't change.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I think all rolls have the same frame data. At least I read something like that in the GW boards techchasing thread. Only the distance and how fast the roll moves is different, but the frames don't change.

Wrong.

Example, Lucario's back roll is 27 frames.

Samus's back roll is 44 frames.

It's noticeable.

 

[Attila_]

The invincibility changes too. Snakes rolls are long, but he's vulnerable for half of it, so the distance doesn't mean much.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This is not the roll we are discussing Aero. Luxingo asked about back rolls after Dthrow from Snake. Snake's dthrow leaves characters in the Down*U positions, so they have different properties from the regular rolls available from shield inputs. DownStandU, DownBackU, DownForwardU, DownAttackU to be exact are the actions available apart form waiting.

For Lucario, his DownBackU animation is 36 frames long while Samus has the same 36 frames. Most characters follow similar stats, but they different across the board generally by about couple frames when inviciblity starts or not. The notable exception is Marth on his DownForwardU. His invincibility activates the latest and its enough to allow Ftilt to activate. However, there is a catch since Marth is initially too low to get hit by Ftilt, so its only one a single frame that Ftilt can work and requires both characters to buffer Ftilt and roll after Dthrow to connect.

But to answer Luxingo's question, Fsmash is NOT guaranteed on anyone if they roll backwards when you decide to Fsmash. They can all shield before that happens.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Oh, in that case I believe most are still different by one or two frames.

 

[ViperGold42]

should I even care about frames?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

No you should not. Its a completely useless and stupid thing to try memorizing and is only there for the interest of people who are curious about the subtle mechanics of the game.

 

[Bonds]

Frame data is a good way to confirm if something is guaranteed or not, or if any given thing can work under x assumptions. Like, if I were to ask, "is a jab into grab guaranteed on falco if he attempts to buffer a jab after I jab him?" I would be able to answer that question with frame data. It's not a necessity to know to get good at the game, but it is a plus.

 

[Dekillsage]

Knowing your frame data is really important.... idk wtf you guys are talking about

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

It's really not even that important if you have a good feel for your character.

 

[etecoon]

yeah knowing your options is pointless

just camp with nades and space with ftilt

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Ah yes. The Snake Creed: "Camp nades, space Ftilt, kill with Utilt"

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think beneficial is probably a better word to use instead of important lol. Also I also agree with the feel for your character thing. o-o

 

[luxingo]

Is an opponent's edge slip into a (sourspotted?) jab to a fsmash guaranteed on any characters?

 

[-LzR-]

EDIT: Nvm I misread that post above

 

[Dekillsage]

Is an opponent's edge slip into a (sourspotted?) jab to a fsmash guaranteed on any characters?

I unno. You should input jab and confirm whether it hit or not regardless =P

 

[-LzR-]

I think all characters have the same framedata on their forced getup so if it works on someone it works on everyone and vice versa. Shouldn't be hard to test either.

 

[Dekillsage]

Some characters can jump before hitting the floor. There's all this stuff where it depends on what direction your opponent was looking and how heavy they are etc
I ain't looking it up xD I know its somewhere on smashboards though

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah the touching the floor thing is character dependent, but not everyone really techs this stuff or realizes to jump in time. The data was on Metagame Minute but I think all of that stuff was lost as the site and everything is now gone for some reason.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If you can do something like Utilt to push someone's off while in shield, then the edge slip on someone who cannot tech as they hit the ground, then jab (forced get-up) -> fsmash is guaranteed on at least once person. I cannot recall who I tested it on awhile ago nor if everyone has the same time of animation of getting up on forced get-up. It would be reasonable to assume that everyone is very similar and this works for anyone who cannot tech as they hit the ground.

Either way, yes, you want to look out for forced get up by jab -> fsmash since it is guaranteed at least somewhere. But, I am not sure which is a better method of pushing shields off a platform. Utilt or auto canceled SH Uair.

 

[JTsm]

I think that would be Olimar or MK where you could do that, Xeylode. Not sure though.

 

[-LzR-]

I am sure it works on Falco at least, haven't even tried on anyone else. Someone should try to make a new list with the characters it works on from the BF platform.
And remember the character has to face backwards from the point he is going to fall out from. If he is facing forward he can act immediately. But I guess that's common sense already.

 

[Bonds]

It works on several characters off the top of my head:

it works on Mk, Falco, and Snake at least. I know it doesn't work on Marth or Olimar

Edit: actual list from metagame minute:

In order of tier list:
S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

Note that some of these characters are MUCH more difficult to jab reset out of edgeslip than others due to their size, though.

 

[BlueXenon]

Which stage is banned the most against snake players?
My guess is lylat cruise.

 

[Ken Neth]

People ban halberd almost every match against me. Or FD sometimes, which I don't mind cause I personally hate playing on FD. Lylat is an alright stage for snake, so I could see why people might ban it.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Yeah I didn't really think there was one stage, but I forgot about Halbard lol. I never cp Halbard though, so i'm ok with people banning it against me lol.

 

[Dekillsage]

Usually Halberd or FD. I personally don't like halberd and never counterpick it so I'm like =D when people ban it. But then they ban FD and I'm all like

 

[JTsm]

Everybody bans Halberd against me, but I honestly hate that stage. I never do well on that stage anyways and I'm always comfortable with FD or BF.

 

[Attila_]

Halberd's been banned in my community since forever, so I never really got to play there. Everyone bans ps1 against me

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I wonder... will stage list will decrease so much we only have neutrals lol

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I wonder... will stage list will decrease so much we only have neutrals lol

I hope not. o_o Neutrals are my worst stages outside of the weird ones like YI, LC, and PS1 lol. Also it seems like everyone bans Halbard when the Snakes aren't even planning on cping them there anyway lol. Makes me think people don't know as much about Snake as they should.