Official Snake Q&A Area

[Kuro~]

There is no simple answer to get pit off the ledge. You have to make a read. Or learn how to ISSDI onto the ledge off his upair/arrows...

First it's good to test the waters. See how he reacts to any form of approaching and setting up like soft lobs+c4. Then attempt a read from there. Pit has plenty of options on the ledge. One for every option you can think of. It just comes down to reads.
Snakes best options
Quick grabbing the ledge
FF bair onstage
No FF bair offstage
soft lob nades
and c4

dash attack as well.


as far as a camping pit goes how i get past it is i just read when they like to release and take advantage of that. Every pit has habits on how far they're willing to go on mixing up the timing.


Don't roll/spotdodge/ jump airdodge pre-emptively. I love it when anyone does that. You just gave me an extra 3% for free cuz i'm gonna shoot you out of the airdodge, roll and spotdodge. It's quite easy for any pit worth his salt to do that to any character not named dedede.


what i like to do is mix-up crawls with the PS glitch to instant powershield for me with short hop lob nades(since they're gonna aim down trying to hit me as i crawl so i'll go right over the arrow) as i get in and then go from there.

Dash attack clanks with arrows so use that to close the distance. The timing is right as he's flipping to get the clank. This is pretty under utilized.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Up tilt?

@Gheb - Dedede needs X as grab to do the infinite, so I can't really change it lol.

 

[Kuro~]

It's an alright option. I've found it works less than the ones above though.


I just use two diff. tags.

I use my x as grab for when i use ICs and use my other normal setup for when i play anyone else(cuz it covers any possible character)

Never tried x or y as a shield tbh.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

By the way, mind if I ask what the PS glitch is?

 

[Kuro~]

If your crouching and hit shield it auto-power shields.

You still have to slightly time it but it's much easier to time cuz as long as the hitbox is over you and you hit shield it'll PS.

 

[Bonds]

Posts moved, merged, w/e.

rinisan, don't derail topics please.

Ontopic: What exactly do people use jab1 for? I can't think of any uses for it apart from forcing a hard landing on characters with haven't removed their RCO lag. Usually I just find ftilt1 to be so much better. :/

Jab1 is really, really good for a lot of reasons. I could probably write a whole essay on it lol

if you space jab1, it's hard to punish oos if you walk away immediately for a lot of characters since snake pulls his arm back, and since there's always the threat of you going into ftilt or grab afterwards I find that most people react to getting their shield jabbed by rolling. It changes the game state to something resembling our dthrow tech chase, and if your opponent isn't sure what you're attempting to do/bait out of the jab it can end up in a lot of free damage.

like you mentioned, it also serves as a way to force someone's rco lag if they land during hit stun. if a char has long enough rco lag you can probably sticky them with a c4 this way too.

Imo jab1's use is mostly to abuse offensive mixups on the ground like jab -> grab and jab -> ftilt, is fairly safe on shield against a lot of characters if you don't try to follow up due to mixup threats, and can lead into a powerful situation similar to a tech chase with snake, where you can react to and punish most of a character's options.

Of course rapid jab1s also eat spotdodges, but the ones that are harder to punish are probably better left alone.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What? XD

 

[Bonds]

I WOULD forget to finish a paragraph. my bad

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Since when does DDD need X on grab to do the infinite?

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah I don't think it matters what button you use.
And that 'PS glitch' isn't a glitch, it's a regular application of the game's mechanics.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Since when does DDD need X on grab to do the infinite?

I mash the button.

Zero tech skill ftw.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Buffering grabs on Z ... requires zero tech skill ...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Z is my attack button. As a Sheik user, I tend to DACUS with all my characters, whether it benefits them or not.

Yes, I'm a bit weird.

 

[etecoon]

I tried this yesterday, ****ed me up because I actually use both jump buttons depending on the circumstance, also finding "L Trigger = block" is pretty hard wired after the past 13 years...if I ever take this game seriously again I might buy the screwdriver to remove the springs, seems much more practical than trying to blow up a decade+ of continuity

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I find it perfectly possible to keep up a couple different controller schemes if you give me maybe a match or two to get use to the change. Then again, this is mostly because of the change from smash64 -> melee which has no C-stick. Then melee to brawl where I have tap jump off, Z for attack, and R for grab. It might be easier to adapt when they are completely different games.

Etecoon, why were you so against Brawl again? Did you ever consider looking into any community with Smash64 or melee?

 

[etecoon]

different games helps, or physical controllers for that matter, I can play using the gamecube, wiichuk, or classic controller but I can't change the controls too much for any of them...and oddly enough I can only play certain characters with each(anyone with gamecube, my MK and marth are like 95% with wiichuk but garbage with classic, my snake is like 95% with classic but garbage with wiichuk)

classic controller would actually be almost perfect for snake if the sticks weren't almost as loose as 3rd party controllers, wtf nintendo? wiichuk's stick is much tighter, why would they go out of their way to do that >_< no springs in the classic or wiichuk either, but both controllers have other serious drawbacks

 

[Necrotic]

What would be be best move (attack) to buffer a grab from? and which of snakes tilts has the most hit stun, besides his up-tilt? im trying to preform an escapable grab iv practiced with jab to f-tilt to grab but everytime i try to buffer a grab i instead buffer a f-tilt 2. any advice?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Snake doesn't have any guaranteed grabs from stuff. In most cases, you'll have to dash grab out of an ftilt or jab to make sure your grab won't miss. Sometimes they get knocked to far away for a regrab from simply standing.

 

[Necrotic]

Snake doesn't have any guaranteed grabs from stuff. In most cases, you'll have to dash grab out of an ftilt or jab to make sure your grab won't miss. Sometimes they get knocked to far away for a regrab from simply standing.

Hmmmm makes sense...iv noticed that jab 1 seems to work better because of its low knockback. but wouldnt a boost grab (or did you mean a Pivot grab?) after a jab to ftilt leave you open to punishment?

 

[Bonds]

We don't really have any attacks we want to buffer grabs out of tbh

I don't believe you can buffer a grab out of ftilt1 because its iasa frames only go into ftilt2. You can still wait until the attack animation finishes and then grab, but there is no way to guarantee it.

Also, your location says you live in the kc area, are you getting into the scene?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

No, simply a regular dash forward and grab. No pivot. Nothing other than jab1/Ftilt1 -> dash -> grab. There is the possibility of getting something going wrong if you attempt the dash grab.

But that's generally the risk of jab cancels with all characters. Your hope is the jab1 or threat of ftilt2 (if you used Ftilt1) will make them mess up or get scared and react by going into shield.

Although, you never have to dash grab. I only said to dash grab because it guarantees the grab after jab1 or ftil1 (provided the opponent does not attack you or dodge in someway. By simply doing a standing grab, their is the possibility they might get knocked too far away, but is much faster and less time for retaliation from your opponent.

 

[Necrotic]

We don't really have any attacks we want to buffer grabs out of tbh

I don't believe you can buffer a grab out of ftilt1 because its iasa frames only go into ftilt2. You can still wait until the attack animation finishes and then grab, but there is no way to guarantee it.

Also, your location says you live in the kc area, are you getting into the scene?

Im Hoping to get into Apex 2013 iv been dying to get into major tournaments and improve my knowledge and overall skill. as of now im stuck with library tournys and i have attempted to create a smash scene here in topeka but the lack of competition here usually stops me. I hosted a tourny before and only ONE guy showed. That was back in 2010 when Darkrain and I were considering going into team battles at apex...lack of money and high school got in the way. we both graduated and he moved so i lost my tourny buddy. after hosting a tourny and only getting one person kinda discouraged me than. we made flyers and posters we had atleast 30 posted throughout the town. nobody seemed to care. we had 3 40 inch tvs 3 wiis 8 gamecube controllers we bought on amazon we spent alot of money to run the thing and made only $20 in profit...it was a major dissapointment.

 

[Bonds]

If you don't mind a little traveling, lawrence has a somewhat active scene and lenexa has weekly smashfests on mondays.

 

[Tesh]

How exactly do I chaingrab Falco?

 

[Kuro~]

Grab-->air release--> Dash attack cancel grab

 

[Tesh]

what should it look like? only time I'm getting the grab, I'm seeing a frame or two of falco landing on the ground first.

 

[Ken Neth]

You need to buffer it all. I think there's only like three frames iirc and if you're too slow you get jabbed.

In my opinion it's not really worth trying. You get a few extra percent on him and he's closer to the edge, but you can't do much with it. And most people mess it up more than they get it, making it a bad choice for a lot of people.

 

[Tesh]

Well I figured if I grab him mid stage, its worth bringing him to the ledge for a more constricted tech chase.

I'm still not 100% understanding you, I'm just looking for visual cues. Should I be seeing him land before I grab him or does that mean I was too slow? It seems like when I boost grab ASAP I don't go far enough to grab him (and its pretty easy for me to boost grab on wiichuck with the a+B setting for it).

 

[Attila_]

not sure on the frame data, but i treat it like a mortar slide.

you know how if you mistime a mortar slide, you still do one, but snake doesn't travel very far? boost grabbing seems to work the same way.

although for the timing of the boost grab, you want to grab as late as possible.

snake should look like he's going to fall over.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Whut, you guys can chaingrab Falco?

brb Frame Advance

edit

Dash 6 frames, input 3rd frame boost grab

to

Dash 10 frames, input 3rd frame boost grab

It's worth noting that the dash for 10 frames lets him put his shield, dashing for 11 frames lets him spotdodge, dashing for 12 frames lets him jab you out of it.

Edit: To answer tesh's question, yes, Falco lands on the ground.

 

[Necrotic]

What are some of Snakes best baiting options?

 

[Attila_]

Jab is the one I use the most. Pivot grab too.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What are some of Snakes best baiting options?

Running, dashing, walking, and standing. Then either stop or go the opposite direction just outside their range.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Yeah I find just walking around someone's shield and doing nothing are some good baits. ^_^ Walking/Slowly approaching Snake seems to pressure people quite a bit lol.

 

[Attila_]

is getting hit out of cypher damage based, or knockback based?

 

[Tesh]

Damage, If I recall, a fresh razor leaf can break cypher (almost no knockback) and stale shuttle loops and MK Uairs don't break it despite respectable knockback.

Yoshi is the one that KB based. Poor guy.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Exactly 7% or less. Any more and knockback is applied normally.

 

[Attila_]

thats handy to know. iirc, if mk has used his dair twice, it will no longer be able to knock you out of cypher.

 

[Wilmenz]

After 4 or 5 shuttle loops, it no longer knocks you out of Cypher.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

ha, only after 4-5...
Does anyone notices if they have DI patterns? I noticed I DI every smash straight up, so I die earlier to a luigi fsmash or zelda fsmash. Or I always try to DI moves such as wolf dthrow, sonic dthrow, or mk dthrow down and go for tech chases. When caught in an attack attack chain like against peach, I hold up and away.