so if tyrant beat adhd and adhd beat m2k, that means that tyrant is the best player in the world now right?
But wait~ FOW beat Tyrant and...
Also, I hear Ksizzle's brother knocked out ADHD at his first tournament
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Official Metaknight Discussion
- Thread starter Hylian
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But wait~ FOW beat Tyrant and...
Also, I hear Ksizzle's brother knocked out ADHD at his first tournament
no, you proved that he was broken using rulesets that no one actually uses
HEY GUYS BOWSER IS PRETTY BROKEN ON HANENBOW!?!?!?
Gnes
Smash Master
Felix has jem practice and is very good, im not suprised if he did do that. I would also like to see felix play them in bracket, when their willing to do anything and everything to win. Playing mk in bracket is a entirely different world, and u know EXACTLY what i mean.
Adhd playing "crappy" at mlg means nothing. He had time to practice as did everyone else who johns that they were "playing bad". The reality, he loss. Thats all.
Now on the other note, i will not tell u. And really, i honestly dont care if u think they dont exist. My advice would be to ask dojo/anti about tips or go into training mode and try out some stuff. I wont be the death of my character. Now im not saying the things that I know make the matchup 70-30/65-35, but makes it dramatically far away from 50-50 as u and a few foolish souls believe.
What r u even talking about? Is this a joke post? Because I find it unbelievable that someone could write a statement in which every part of it be wrong unless it is. If so, dont mind me. Sarcasm doesn't pass through the filter known as "teh interwebs" well.ADHD has to get used to the mk's that know the matchup. because he thinks he is gonna **** every mk out there without going througha challege.. Since everybody out there knows the matchup is even. -_-'
Mew2King
King of the Mews
there's no way I'm going to believe you then if you are not going to tell any of the reasons why MK beats Diddy and just say he does
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Because then there goes all hope of him beating top MKs with his character if they knew whatever it is he's hiding. Why would he do that to himself?
It's just like how you wouldn't reveal the details about tornado when I asked you about it. xD
It's just like how you wouldn't reveal the details about tornado when I asked you about it. xD
Mew2King
King of the Mews
Kbeef - come over today, I need someone to play with
I honestly don't know/remember what you're talking about about hiding stuff with tornado. I can explain that move in great detail.
I honestly don't know/remember what you're talking about about hiding stuff with tornado. I can explain that move in great detail.
it is a silly expectation but trying to get MK banned with "he does **** diddy, he just does!" is also silly. maybe both of them should just stop <_<
(btw I think MK beats diddy, I'm just saying this conversation is ridiculous from both sides)
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Man I wish I could but I'm working at both of my jobs for the rest of the week, and this weekend is my birthday weekend so I'll be out and about with the family. But yeah I'll play you again whenever I'm free and I'll ask you more about nado while I'm there.
@ Etecoon- I didn't even participate in the actual argument. I was just trying to make a point about hiding things to M2K and why Gnes may not want to reveal anything that would further hinder his chances competitively with his character. Dur...
@ Etecoon- I didn't even participate in the actual argument. I was just trying to make a point about hiding things to M2K and why Gnes may not want to reveal anything that would further hinder his chances competitively with his character. Dur...
yeah I misworded that, I meant gness. and as I said I agree that MK beats diddy I just don't see the point of arguing it if you aren't actually going to say why, same with M2K saying that diddy beats MK "because I can't beat ADHD", this discussion is entirely nonsensical
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
If Diddy really was the magic counter to MK, wouldn't ADHD be able to beat the MK's who know the matchup consistently? It's obvious enough that Diddy has a couple tricks up his sleeve that make him closer to MK than almost everyone else in the cast, but he's not a counter to MK. If someone can show why Diddy counters MK, by all means, go ahead. It won't happen, though, because MK HAS NO COUNTER! We've gone over this a dozen times, and MK destroys the counter system beause he has no bad legal stages and no disadvantageous matchups. How about after this season ends in a couple of months, we try a temporary ban for a few months just to see how the metagame changes? The worst thing that can happen is a few MK fanboys quit or the unlikely chance that a different character dominates the rest of the cast with MK gone. As we have it now, we've added rules to limit MK and we're thinking about banning stages simply because they're good for MK. As a Kirby main, I don't want RC or Brinstar to be banned, but a lot of people have decided that anything and everything that benefits MK should be banned. But really, the problem isn't even stalling or stages. It's MK's moveset! He has amazing priority, nearly unbeatable move speed and recovery, virtually perfect gimping, none of which we can limit. Let's just try a temporary ban to see how the Metagame looks like without a dominating force, and let the BBR make a descision after that. What's the harm?
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
All right... "HEY GUYS MK IS PRETTY ****ING CRAPPY IF THE ONLY MOVE YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO IS JAB"
Comparing a ledge grab limit to a character on hanenbow is like comparing a single move in a character's arsenal to
I can't THNK UP an analogy that dumb.
hyperbole was just a fun little after addition, bowser probably isn't actually good on hanenbow anyway. point is that your entire argument hinges on "OMG PLANKING SHULD BE LEGAAAAL"
should just go back to "MK is overcentralizing because he alone breaks the counterpick system", it's true and it's actually a legitimate argument
should just go back to "MK is overcentralizing because he alone breaks the counterpick system", it's true and it's actually a legitimate argument
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
Close matchups can be won on both sides even if both know the matchup alot. :/If Diddy really was the magic counter to MK, wouldn't ADHD be able to beat the MK's who know the matchup consistently? It's obvious enough that Diddy has a couple tricks up his sleeve that make him closer to MK than almost everyone else in the cast, but he's not a counter to MK. If someone can show why Diddy counters MK, by all means, go ahead. It won't happen, though, because MK HAS NO COUNTER! We've gone over this a dozen times, and MK destroys the counter system beause he has no bad legal stages and no disadvantageous matchups. How about after this season ends in a couple of months, we try a temporary ban for a few months just to see how the metagame changes? The worst thing that can happen is a few MK fanboys quit or the unlikely chance that a different character dominates the rest of the cast with MK gone. As we have it now, we've added rules to limit MK and we're thinking about banning stages simply because they're good for MK. As a Kirby main, I don't want RC or Brinstar to be banned, but a lot of people have decided that anything and everything that benefits MK should be banned. But really, the problem isn't even stalling or stages. It's MK's moveset! He has amazing priority, nearly unbeatable move speed and recovery, virtually perfect gimping, none of which we can limit. Let's just try a temporary ban to see how the Metagame looks like without a dominating force, and let the BBR make a descision after that. What's the harm?
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
^^ etecoon this makes no sense. Nobody thinks planking should be legal! Our entire argument hinges on "Meta Knight is broken and he's destroying the game. Let's ban him!" It's the anti-ban that's ridiculous. Your argument's basically "Is not!" with a little "So what?" thrown in.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
This doesn't change the fact that MK is far and above the best choice for a character. The only other thing worth doing is learning some character specific counters, like Dedede for most of the cast, or the ICs and their infinites.
Gnes
Smash Master
Dont worry...in do time i plan to create/update the diddy v mk matchup thread on the diddy boards.
What i was referring to was the frame traps i found with bananas....that i wont reveal for anything.
I mean just in general...he outranges diddy...has moves that are safe on shield/are safe from significant punishment, nullifies our camping with scrooging/planking, and can literally make his own little fortress by simply camping near a ledge. Diddy does have options for some moves and strings, but its pretty lopsided.
Im not gonna say much else cuz this isn't the diddy vs mk matchup thread.
What i was referring to was the frame traps i found with bananas....that i wont reveal for anything.
I mean just in general...he outranges diddy...has moves that are safe on shield/are safe from significant punishment, nullifies our camping with scrooging/planking, and can literally make his own little fortress by simply camping near a ledge. Diddy does have options for some moves and strings, but its pretty lopsided.
Im not gonna say much else cuz this isn't the diddy vs mk matchup thread.
no, BPC has been arguing that planking should be legal assuming MK were banned as well. no comment on the anti ban attack, if anything I agree that there should be a temp ban, I just don't think planking should be allowed either way.
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
Are they safe enough for Glide toss OSS?
Scrooging an planking is a touchy subject because its what we are discussing right now. 
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
^^ Planking is only proken when MK is legal. Without MK, planking is perfectly beatable. I personally hate planking, but unless MK is legal, planking isn't as broken as you think.
EDIT - Another post got in the way. I was responding to etecoon, not bigbucks...
EDIT - Another post got in the way. I was responding to etecoon, not bigbucks...
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
Planking does fall under the "stalling" rule, the problem is that defining what is stalling an what is not stalling is highly subjective
An i like to bring up another point, Why don't people bring about human error when it comes to planking? Frame perfect planking for a whole 8 minute match? I don't think its possible realistically. Scrooging however i can agree. :/.
bigbucks
Smash Journeyman
Just after i respond this. -_-
a lot of things are banned for reasons other than being broken, in fact the more prominent pro banners don't even argue that MK is broken, that's something that people like BPC have started
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF3BfiNxpiU&feature=related
sure, it's beatable, but this will get brawl kicked off of MLG faster than MK(non-planking, just being overcentralizing and dumb) ever would
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Pretty much this. G&W's planking? Beatable. Pit's planking? Beatable. And not just beatable, reasonably beatable. Banning something that is beatable and not completely game-breaking is scrub logic.
Crow!
Smash Lord
It's these kinds of posts that make me wonder whether Diddy really deserves to be as high in the tier list and character rankings as he currently is. A character that's truly good would benefit from spreading knowledge about strategies and techniques, as it would increase the number of players using that technique, advance the character's metagame overall, and eventually the number of players using the character, too.
Diddy Kong mains, on the other hand, seem to believe they must block further understanding of their character, which implies that common unfamiliarity with the character is essential for Diddy Kong to succeed. In other words, Diddy mains are acting as though their character is a gimmick.
Edit:
It's certainly not his only argument, but incidentally, planking SHOULD be legal. Here's an essay I wrote on the subject recently.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10299146&postcount=4
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
@Crow!
Good thoughts; Diddy isn't a counter to MK. MK's just don't know the matchup well enough, and if you think about it, everyone knows MK's style... he's the most public charater of all. Diddy, on the other hand, is used, like you said, as a gimmick through unfamiliarity for the character. Diddy is one of the hardest characters to use, so aside from Diddy mains, not many know the intricacies of his matchups, specifically vs. MK. Diddy's secrecy is his greatest asset, and once it's out in the open, I predict a fall in his position.
Good thoughts; Diddy isn't a counter to MK. MK's just don't know the matchup well enough, and if you think about it, everyone knows MK's style... he's the most public charater of all. Diddy, on the other hand, is used, like you said, as a gimmick through unfamiliarity for the character. Diddy is one of the hardest characters to use, so aside from Diddy mains, not many know the intricacies of his matchups, specifically vs. MK. Diddy's secrecy is his greatest asset, and once it's out in the open, I predict a fall in his position.
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Perhaps that is the case. But then again, if I were one of the premier Diddy mains making money like he is, I wouldn't reveal my secrets either.
Gnes
Smash Master
Crow...u hit it right on the spot.
I dont believe diddy should be as high as he is, some people still dont utilize simple things like Instant throwing/Shield bouncing/other techs against him. Once mastery of things like these become commonplace, we'll see just how far diddy goes.
I dont believe diddy should be as high as he is, some people still dont utilize simple things like Instant throwing/Shield bouncing/other techs against him. Once mastery of things like these become commonplace, we'll see just how far diddy goes.
Diddy is easy to use you guys don't what is this flarble
The problem is that he is a better reaction character than a force your hand character. People throwing bananas forward and buffering a move immediately, under most cirsumstances, are doing it wrong. People throwing that Banana and seeing what happens... thumbs up.
Gnes knows. Dedede in my path? What he gonna do when I toss a banana at his shield and sit there? Nothing. Options gone.
The problem is that he is a better reaction character than a force your hand character. People throwing bananas forward and buffering a move immediately, under most cirsumstances, are doing it wrong. People throwing that Banana and seeing what happens... thumbs up.
Gnes knows. Dedede in my path? What he gonna do when I toss a banana at his shield and sit there? Nothing. Options gone.
Gnes
Smash Master
manofgames4555
Smash Journeyman
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
I'm not too experienced with Diddy matchups in general, but it seems he plays a lot differently that most of the other characters, which is why he does better against MK. His advantages all come from unfamiliarity, and that can't last forever. Eventually, MK's everywhere will finally get the matchup, and Diddy will be proven to not be a counter, just like we've been saying all along.
Veril
Frame Savant
Only MK's planking is worth actually banning. No other character can even execute a single aerial with complete invulnerability from ledge-drop iirc. This said I like the challenge of being required to actually prove this, and that is exactly what I'm going to do (over the next few weeks).
Yeah, I'm just gonna go find those now. I'd be amazed if it was anything so complex I couldn't figure it out with some testing.
Perfect planking isn't that hard lol
Buffering + ledge-grab distance + only requires 3 moves (up-air x2 and dimensional cape) = not that hard.
Gnes
Smash Master
Its not at all...its so funny...lol. After playing anti last night i got frustrated and started trying stuff in training mode with mk.
And i completely agree with what u said about perfect planking.
U might need a person to test how really valid the stuff u find out is.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I believe DMG proved it with frame data.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
You're right.
Diddy is terrible.
Bananas do nothing.
There is no pizza hut.
No reason anyone should get that last part.
Diddy is terrible.
Bananas do nothing.
There is no pizza hut.
No reason anyone should get that last part.
Akaku94
Smash Journeyman
^^ aren't you the guy who "feels very strongly about banning meta knight and tends to rely a lot on logical fallacies to win argments?"
lol
lol
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
MK doesn't have to grab the ledge.
MK can UpB onto the edge, and he can Tornado up and around the edge, landing in the middle of the stage.
As for Japes, I have no idea why it's banned.
HRNUT (Honey Roasted)
Smash Master
Gnes, Dekar...Paying the bills combo...i completely agree with you guys
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