Official Metaknight Discussion

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Veril, you and DanGR are talking about two different things-he means global LGLs, you mean limits on MK.

 

[bigbucks]

Why not global LGD?

It limits mks broken planking an limits other characters good(but not as great) Planking tools.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why not global LGD?

It limits mks broken planking an limits other characters good(but not as great) Planking tools.

Because nobody else has planking that warrants a ban. To ban something, it has to be broken. If we're going to arbitrarily start banning things we don't like, how about DDD's CG?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

How bout you guys look at the character in question and not it's many players.

I'd just like to point out that LGLs are a direct response to MK being really good on the ledge. The limits are premature and unwarranted, as the strategy itself was new and relatively UNTESTED before TOs decided to limit it. Not only that, but the limits directly affect other characters that need the ledge as well.

I basically quit Smash because all the TOs in my area are too stupid, ignorant, and anti-competitive to realize how dumb a rule it is.

Yeah, GLOBAL LGLs are bad.

However, MK will be tested. Veril has plans mah boy, he has plans...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Did the SBR vote recenetly and they say MK wad here to stay?

The SBR decided that they voted for the last time.

 

[bigbucks]

Because nobody else has planking that warrants a ban. To ban something, it has to be broken. If we're going to arbitrarily start banning things we don't like, how about DDD's CG?

Still doesn't change the fact that everyones planking is a stalling tactic. Doesn't matter if it isnt as good as Mk's.

 

[Dekar173]

What sort of logic are you using to conclude that universal LGLs are justified because MK's planking is unbeatable? (assuming it is unbeatable)

Would you ban JUMPING in SF2T because Akuma's aerial fireball was so monstrous?

Lmfao.

No, the character itself was banned, unlike the shenanigans we've been participating in here in the Brawl community.

Planking is unpunishable, therefore it's banned (if you let the MKs play without a limit, they'll do it, as proven by Doom's 224 ledge grabs against me).



As for your arguments of "they're great players!!!" yes- they ARE great players, I'm not denying that. BUT- if you and they truly believe they would be winning the tourneys if they mained another character, why don't we just ban MK and let them win those tourneys with other characters for a while? They'd still be winning, so they'd be happy, MK would be banned, so everyone else would be happy. It's win-win.

Not only would we now have no problem with planking, but we would be able to completely revamp the stage counterpick list, and be able to give the over 55% of Brawlers what they've actually wanted for a long time.



There is no logic behind the anti-ban mentality, none. These people don't care about the community of smash, they care about themselves. They care about winning.

Also, before you all attack me with "you care about winning more too!!!"

I haven't lost at a local tourney in ... a year? I really don't know how long. So that point is moot.

I lost to M2K at MLG (and let's face it, he is SUCH a good player that I may have lost even if MK were banned) and CO18, who uses D3, so that kind of negates the point too.



I don't care about winnings, I care about this community, and what it is turning into. Something that was predicted over a year ago- an MK-centric game. Sure, MK is the best character in the game so it's going to be centered around him in some way, but to the point that it is now?

Infinite Dimensional Cape: banned.

Planking: limted ... limited ... finally banned.

Ledge grab limit? 35, 40 on norfair, 15 for tiebreakers, none if it's doubles

Scrooging? MK's the only **** character that can do it effectively and yet it's limited.

Stages? RC and Brinstar are looking to get banned due to MK any day now (decent counterpicks when he's out of the picture).



Why change the game sooooo much in order to keep one character (which was designed to be better than all of the others) around? It's pointless.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Why change the game sooooo much in order to keep one character (which was designed to be better than all of the others) around? It's pointless.

Because the people who main this character do not want **** to change, and because they have the power to say "no" to anything we do with almost complete impunity. If we host MK-banned tournaments, we lose money, practice, and face. If we plead to the SBR, we get silence. If we plea to the opponents, we get laughed at. There is no where to turn; the battle is lost. It is unwinnable until most of anti-ban realizes that, for the health of brawl, it is necessary to ban metaknight. Which won't happen. I mean, look at the top anti-bans, look at the top MKs, look at who makes money off of smash. Look who organizes nationals, look who pays their bills with smash. Things will not change. They can ignore every statistical piece of evidence thrown their way. They can ignore changing the rules again and again and again to accomidate this character (and fight it, if it doesn't work for them! I'll bet they will not be happy when people ban RC and Brinstar.), when this would, in any sane community, point to a character that needs to be removed. They can continue letting the vampire bat suck us dry until MLG drops us because MLG is a ****ing blood bank. Never mind the whole "Metaknight is killing the smash scene" because MLG is there to pick up the pieces... until it's just Metaknights. And then? Will we ban the only character ever used?
I'll be playing Brawl- Ganondorf if anyone needs me.

 

[fkacyan]

There is no logic behind the anti-ban mentality, none. These people don't care about the community of smash, they care about themselves. They care about winning.

I'd flame you for this moronic statement but you're a mod, so I'll just let you know that this is a moronic statement.

Because the people who main this character do not want **** to change, and because they have the power to say "no" to anything we do with almost complete impunity.

I don't main the character and I don't want him banned. See the first part of this post.

 

[theunabletable]

I like Dekar's posts. All of the ad hominem arguments posted from a mod make me laugh at the irony of the situation.

Scrooging? MK's the only **** character that can do it effectively and yet it's limited.

By whom has it been limited?

 

[giuocob]

We may just have to wait until MLG Columbus to see if Meta Knight's domination trend is only going to increase. 3 of the top 8 at Orlando were Meta Knight; will it increase at Columbus? Almost everyone believes the answer is yes, but we'll have to wait and see for the actual results.

Here's my personal message to anti-ban: MK has steadily been getting more and more dominant over time, and it's going to continue. And we're going to get to the point where people who do not wish to play MK will simply stop playing the game because they're tired of losing to people who are clearly far inferior to them in skill. Tournament attendance has already been going down, and I see no reason for it to start going up again. And it's mainly because of MK. I'm an example of one guy who switched back to Melee because of MK, and dozens of others have expressed the same sentiments on these forums. It seems like MK isn't too big of a problem now that the community is still large, but it's definitely declining, and it might very well drop to the point where people are so disgusted with the game that even banning MK at that point won't bring it back.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Ummm are you serious did you just say ADHD Wasn't the best player in NJ and then not include Anti for NY? Best in FL is up in the air because they all have inconsistent results. CO18 can beat Ally half the time, ESAM did the best at MLG, Nick Riddle is just an oddball. FL is pretty well rounded. Arizona, Utah, and Louisiana have no competition, and DEHF was the best on WC for a really long time until recently. In fact, right now I would just say Tyrant is a better player than DEHF. Tyrant beat MikeHaze in a friendly set with Falco the night before Tourneyplay 5, and then the first day of tourneyplay 5 mikehaze beat DEHF in bracket. Tyrant for best Falco? As far as Dojo, yes he IS the best PLAYER in TX. Just his Diddy does better than almost everyone else's main vs me in that state, and has 2-0d Mikehaze in tourney before and does well at MK banned events despite using MK countless times more than he has practiced those other characters.

Dehf lost his place as the best on WC due to which character??


And as far as dojo doing well without mk its not the same as winning with him.

 

[AvaricePanda]

There is no logic behind the anti-ban mentality, none. These people don't care about the community of smash, they care about themselves. They care about winning.

Because the people who main this character do not want **** to change, and because they have the power to say "no" to anything we do with almost complete impunity. If we host MK-banned tournaments, we lose money, practice, and face. If we plead to the SBR, we get silence. If we plea to the opponents, we get laughed at. There is no where to turn; the battle is lost. It is unwinnable until most of anti-ban realizes that, for the health of brawl, it is necessary to ban metaknight. Which won't happen. I mean, look at the top anti-bans, look at the top MKs, look at who makes money off of smash. Look who organizes nationals, look who pays their bills with smash. Things will not change. They can ignore every statistical piece of evidence thrown their way. They can ignore changing the rules again and again and again to accomidate this character (and fight it, if it doesn't work for them! I'll bet they will not be happy when people ban RC and Brinstar.), when this would, in any sane community, point to a character that needs to be removed. They can continue letting the vampire bat suck us dry until MLG drops us because MLG is a ****ing blood bank. Never mind the whole "Metaknight is killing the smash scene" because MLG is there to pick up the pieces... until it's just Metaknights. And then? Will we ban the only character ever used?
I'll be playing Brawl- Ganondorf if anyone needs me.

...

Feel free to ignore this in a few weeks and make a generalized, nonconstructive attack at anti-ban though.

...

lol

To Dekar, BPC, and everyone else:

There are stupid people on both sides of this argument, but the main reason this argument exists in the first place is because both sides are concerned about the health of competitive smash. Pro-ban wants to ban MK for the better of competitive Brawl, anti-ban wants to keep MK for the better of competitive Brawl, and both sides are trying to prove to the other why.

I honestly think that, at least before MLG was introduced, banning MK was too much of a leap of faith to commit to (with the only realistically confirmed thing being more character diversity, which I can't see relating to prolonged tournament attendance), and there was as much of a chance of community split or nothing changing as there was more overall tournament attendance. That could easily change after MLG, and I could easily be pro-ban if I think it's going to significantly prolong and/or save its life.

But I don't understand why this discussion's even going on now. With MLG being a large part of the scene, banning MK now would be disastrous. I can't see it as being an possible option until after MLG, so I don't understand why people are wasting their time getting frustrated over the issue really, or why people are talking about things that have been talked about 500 times.

+1 post count

 

[Dekar173]

I'm not going to infract you if you're debating with me, I don't know why you would think I'd do that.



Back to the debate:

Scrooging, after it was used several times by M2K in order to win matches that he otherwise wouldn't have won (MEEP and Gnes come to mind) it was immediately limited at Pound 4 to "2 in a row, then you must touch the stage"

There you go, that's who.



@unable table: K now explain to me why MK isn't broken/banworthy.

@AP- go to tournaments and you'll understand why this debate continues.



Anti-ban has had their way since this game came out. Brawl has matured enough to the point where we know that there is next to no chance of ANYTHING being discovered/utilized in order to take away from or even just lessen Metaknight's dominance. Let's try banning this stupid character for once, and see if it really is as bad an idea as anti-ban believes it is.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Why do you assume I don't go to tournaments?
Why do you think I'm waiting for some miracle tech that will keep MK in place?
Did you read what I said? lol

I can debate why I think at this point in time, banning MK is too much of a leap of faith and doesn't guarantee anything and hasn't even seriously mentioned to the majority of competitive players (this thread doesn't count) to see their receptions of it for it to be a good option. I'm not, "oh i'm anti-ban I main MK and want your money hurrr"—I honestly think, like a lot of anti-ban and a lot of pro-ban, that my viewpoints are helping the community.

But, as I said (lol), it's pointless talking about it now because of MLG. Banning MK now isn't an option and would just devastate the community, and there's no point talking about things that have been talked about 200 times during a point when nothing can be done. Things could change after MLG, and maybe my opinion would change depending on how the community is then, as of now I'd be anti-ban anyway without MLG, but this is such a non-issue at this point of time.

+1 post count

 

[Espy Rose]

Every time I read your posts, AP, I keep thinking that you are exaggerating about how "devastating" banning Meta Knight right now would be.

Could you elaborate on exactly how you think that would happen?

 

[Dekar173]

Why do you assume I don't go to tournaments?
Why do you think I'm waiting for some miracle tech that will keep MK in place?
Did you read what I said? lol

I can debate why I think at this point in time, banning MK is too much of a leap of faith and doesn't guarantee anything and hasn't even seriously mentioned to the majority of competitive players (this thread doesn't count) to see their receptions of it for it to be a good option. I'm not, "oh i'm anti-ban I main MK and want your money hurrr"—I honestly think, like a lot of anti-ban and a lot of pro-ban, that my viewpoints are helping the community.

But, as I said (lol), it's pointless talking about it now because of MLG. Banning MK now isn't an option and would just devastate the community, and there's no point talking about things that have been talked about 200 times during a point when nothing can be done. Things could change after MLG, and maybe my opinion would change depending on how the community is then, as of now I'd be anti-ban anyway without MLG, but this is such a non-issue at this point of time.

+1 post count

You've mentioned on several occasions in the Diddy boards "I'm not old enough to go to tourneys!"

If you don't go to tournaments, you REALLY do not understand the problem. It's not that you're incapable of understanding, it's that you lack the knowledge in order to make any valid judgments on the subject.

Seriously I don't even understand why you care about this, you don't go to tournaments!

 

[fkacyan]

I'm not going to infract you if you're debating with me, I don't know why you would think I'd do that.

There's nothing to debate! You made a blanket generalization that does not actually cover a large number of the people in the anti-ban camp!

 

[Dekar173]

There's nothing to debate! You made a blanket generalization that does not actually cover a large number of the people in the anti-ban camp!

Then explain to me where you stand, and why, because I can't fathom why anyone would want this game to die aside from them being a melee/brawlmod/trad fanboy.

 

[bigbucks]

You know what will be great, if people started hosting both Mk banned an Mk legal tourneys.in the same region.

It will be the best of both worlds!!. :D

:/

 

[Judo777]

I still cant grasp how anyone makes a final decision about any aspect of brawl. Voted for the last time? There is no way anyone was thinking when they decided it was the last time, IF they did in fact say that.

I can see it now......... "COME ON LETS VOTE TO BAN MK PLEASE!!!!!!.............OK BUT THIS WILL BE LAST TIME CAUSE I'M TIRED AND ITS LATE.................................VOTES ARE IN PEOPLE STILL THINK 1 YEAR IS TOO EARLY TO MAKE A DECISION THIS LARGE.....................................I GUESS THINGS WILL NEVER CHANGE LETS NEVER VOTE AGAIN K?????.............."

 

[fkacyan]

Then explain to me where you stand, and why, because I can't fathom why anyone would want this game to die aside from them being a melee/brawlmod/trad fanboy.

I don't believe that MK is the core issue destroying the community, and I feel that it has yet to be proven that the game balance / tourney attendance / attitude towards the game will improve if MK is banned. I also feel that banning MK without a great understanding of the consequences may ultimately be so divisive that it kills the community entirely.

I do not main MK, I do not play Melee, I do not play hacked Brawl. I am not a part of your generalization, and yet I am still anti-ban. Please don't attempt to lump me in with some blanket group you want to use for your own arguments.

 

[AvaricePanda]

You've mentioned on several occasions in the Diddy boards "I'm not old enough to go to tourneys!"

If you don't go to tournaments, you REALLY do not understand the problem. It's not that you're incapable of understanding, it's that you lack the knowledge in order to make any valid judgments on the subject.

Seriously I don't even understand why you care about this, you don't go to tournaments!

TO DEKAR:
Still didn't cover anything I said, and I was assuming by the fact that I said, "Why do you assume I don't go to tournaments?" it would imply that I do in fact go to tournaments.

First, as I said, I do in fact go to tournaments lol. I don't remember what specific quotes you're pulling from the Diddy boards unless they're like 4 months old. I've said that I'm too young to drive/carpool with anyone so I can't go to tournaments often. This, plus the fact that marching band season takes over half of July, then half of August all through mid-November means I can't go to tournaments through that season.

But I have been to three tournaments in a two month time span, should have been five (one I had the most BS ride johns where my friend said his parents could take us for two weeks and decided that morning to ask his parents, the other got snowed out). I'm planning on going to 3, maybe 4 (one of those is Melee) in the summer, + I don't know how many that haven't been posted.

Is that enough?

Second, you're assuming that every region and tournament has the same issue of MK. You're forgetting that I'm in Midwest East. IN/KY doesn't have MKs on our PR, and Ohio in my and most people's opinions doesn't have close to an overcentralization of MK. From what I hear from friends I've met in person and online, when they go to an Ohio tournament (usually Springfield) they talk about how much fun it was and how much they want to go again (they have amazingly well run tournaments). I've never heard any complains about stalling or MK doing too well or anything like that. Ohio has an insanely competitive scene as well, there are a lot of places in the state that host tournaments (Springfield, NEOH, Athens, Cincinnati, Columbus) and because of this easily 25+ people who are all really good.

Assuming I did go to a tournament every single weekend, I still wouldn't understand whatever it is you're wanting me to understand, because Indiana/Kentucky/Ohio doesn't have "MK problems".

So, I do go to tournaments (maybe not frequently enough or in the right region but that's honestly BS) — what exactly is this issue that I should be seeing now that I was incapable of seeing before? I really don't know.

And I really don't know why I had to say any of that. You made a blanket statement saying that anti-ban was illogical and didn't care about the community at all, and I'm saying why I feel my viewpoint is completely logical and how I'm anti-ban as you're pro-ban because we both care about the community (edit: I share nearly the same reasons Thio has for being anti-ban), and for some reason you made another (false) blanket statement on how I don't go to tournaments and can't understand.



TO ESPY
Now that I think about it for more than 2 seconds, I was exaggerating, but I still don't see how it's possible to ban MK right now for a couple of reasons I can think of right now (there's probably more):

1) I don't know how true this is, but people were saying that many TOs (particularly in AN) would still host MK-allowed tournaments for a while during a permanent or temp-ban. The presence of MLG (AKA national sized MK-allowed tournaments every 1.5-2 months) would only really escalate this issue. If we decided to ban MK now, yet MLG was still hosting MK-allowed events, then it's more incentive for more TOs to keep MK, or maybe more people would disagree with the BBR decision because of MLG's presence, or more of a community split would happen because people would be pushing MLG to ban MK as well.

2) I don't know the extent of MLG's connections with the BBR, but there's a lot of potential issues if MLG tried to ban MK. They'd be cutting out a legal character in the middle of the season, which could and would mess with people's ability to get top 16 or top 8 or whatever they were placing, as well as cause a ton of controversy. There was something else I wanted to say that I'll probably edit in later, my mind's going blank right now.

3) ...well, the timing. It's honestly not possible to ban MK right now or any time soon because
a) The issue has to be reintroduced to the public, probably with a public poll (I don't count this as anything because a lot of people gave up on this thread and it's the same 20ish people posting here). That would probably take about a month, or at least a couple of weeks.
b) Then, assuming that the BBR and public had a majority decision to ban MK, the BBR would probably give people warning before they banned MK. A ban would most probably be stated ahead of time, like, "MK will be banned in 2 months," or whatever, not, "k MK's banned now." I don't know for sure what the BBR's attitude to this would be, but it seems most logical.
c) And then after that, there'd be all the controversy and debates and arguing about MLG banning MK, and assuming THAT fell through, then MLG would have to give warning. Since their events are already scheduled, they'd have to say beforehand that X event would be MK-banned, which would probably be the one after the current one (for example if he was banned right now this minute, the next MK-banned would be the one AFTER Columbus, which I think is Raleigh). By that time, it would probably either be the second to last MLG, or the championships (and there's the issue of people not being able to use who they've been using the entire circuit for the championships starting controversy).

And that's all assuming there's the considerable majority and BBR vote on banning MK, which hasn't happened (5% is meh). It seems illogical, irrational, and impossible time-wise to ban MK while MLG is still going on.

Plus, a lot of people would probably want to use the overall MLG results to finalize what they see in the community, it just makes more sense IMO.

 

[John12346]

Second, you're assuming that every region and tournament has the same issue of MK. You're forgetting that I'm in Midwest East. IN/KY doesn't have MKs on our PR, and Ohio in my and most people's opinions doesn't have close to an overcentralization of MK. From what I hear from friends I've met in person and online, when they go to an Ohio tournament (usually Springfield) they talk about how much fun it was and how much they want to go again (they have amazingly well run tournaments). I've never heard any complains about stalling or MK doing too well or anything like that. Ohio has an insanely competitive scene as well, there are a lot of places in the state that host tournaments (Springfield, NEOH, Athens, Cincinnati, Columbus) and because of this easily 25+ people who are all really good.

Assuming I did go to a tournament every single weekend, I still wouldn't understand whatever it is you're wanting me to understand, because Indiana/Kentucky/Ohio doesn't have "MK problems".

Just one thing, what if the actual case here is that, in Indiana/Kentucky/Ohio, no one actually bothered to pick up MK?

And if that's the case, then that could also be the explanation for people enjoying the tourney scene around there.

 

[King~]

@ above

M2k/Shugo/Kel/Overswarm/Capem/DJ iskascribble/fizzle

all live in ohio and play MK, of course we hear about OS brings it up sometimes or points out certain things on the matter

where just quiet about and have a cool community

 

[Dekar173]

Ok AP, I take it back- you're now a tourney-goer.

I wish everywhere had the same tourney experiences that MW has.

In the SW, it's slightly different.

I win everything, with *insert whoever decides to play MK that week* taking second.

In Cali, Tyrant, DSF, and DEHF dominate the tourney scene, 2 MK mains and a pro-ban. Tyrant would still do extremely well without MK, but DSF I'm not too sure about. He already relies on planking in order to win sets, I don't know if he could do it without it.

In TX, Dojo, Razer, and Gnes dominate, 1 MK and 2 pro-bans (every time there's an MK banned tourney, Dojo doesn't win, he does well, but doesn't come close to winning). Gnes got scrooged by M2K and has ever since been strongly pro-ban (a good reason, in my opinion).

In Florida you've had Seibrik for the longest time being regarded as the "#1 FL player" and why? Because he mains MK! Give him another character, and he'll be taking 5th, tops.

Louisiana- Lee will win regardless of who he plays, but he's a traveling player and picked up MK SOLELY due to the reason that MK is the top character in the game (financially it makes sense).

NJ- Atomsk is definitely NJ's #1 player now, as he does well not only in singles (top 3 always) but wins doubles tourneys as well. I will consent that Atomsk will still do well without MK, as he can play the entire cast very well, he's definitely a top player. As for the other 4 MK mains on the NJ power ranking list? I don't think so.

NY- Shadow has been dominating recently with MK. He has amazing SDI, and is a smart player, so he could definitely keep up his reign of dominance if it weren't for Anti. It's a toss-up between those two. Fortunately for each of them, they play MK though so it's w.e



As for M2K, if MK were banned, he MIGHT be top 3, but definitely would not be regarded as the #1 player in the world. He relies on MK, a character that beats everyone at everything, in order to win.

 

[Chuee]

2 MK mains and a pro-ban.

Since when was DEHF pro-ban?
Also, TKD also dominates WC, though he's not Cali. He beat DEHF and Tyrant at one of those 2GG tournies or something.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Just one thing, what if the actual case here is that, in Indiana/Kentucky/Ohio, no one actually bothered to pick up MK?

And if that's the case, then that could also be the explanation for people enjoying the tourney scene around there.

...I'm pretty sure no.

While there's only one MK main and one Mario/MK in IN/KY (the former uses like 10 characters anyway and the latter is 90% mario), Ohio isn't by any means completely devoid of MKs, the region as a whole has a reasonable number of them from my and a lot of people's standpoints.

The Official Ohio Brawl Power Rankings

Key:
Moved Up
Moved Down
Stayed the Same
Not on last list




0.) Mew2King

1.) Blue Rogue +5 (NEOH)

2.) Infern -1 (Cincinnati)

3.) AlphaZealot +0(Columbus)

4.) Overswarm +1(Cincinnati/ N. Kentucky)

5.) Kel -3 (Cincinnati)

6.) Y.b.M. -2 (cincinnati)

7.) Nope +2 (Springfield)

8.) Capem +0 (Springfield)

9.) Fonz -2 (Springfield)

10.) King Beef +0 (Cleveland)

^slightly outdated, 2 months old

Nope's Monthly "M2k Accepts Paypal" Results​

Springfield, OH​

May 15th, 2010


Doubles Results: (9 Entrants)

1: P*ssy Monsters (Y.b.M. + Blue Rogue) ($99.00)
2: Infern + Krystedez (Infern + Krystedez) ($54.00)
3: Wasted Talent (Champ + Fonz) ($27.00)
4: Snake and the Peruvian Turtle Tamer (Nope + Lou)
5: Obama and Kefka's Health Care Plan (Shugo + Overswarm)
5: Rent a Count (Count + Renagade)
7: Suyon + ITT (Suyon + Ithrowthings)
7: SneakGent (Argentstew + SneakyTako)
9: Soveregin + Be@st (Soveregin + Be@st)





Singles Results: (21 Entrants)

1: Shugo ($100) /
2: Overswarm ($46)
3: Blue Rogue ($29) / /
4: Kel ($16)
5: Infern ($8)
5: Y.b.M. ($8)
7: Nope
7: Renagade
9: Champ / /
9: Count
9: Kyrstedez
9: Ithrowthings
13: SneakyTako
13: Mr. E
13: Fizzle /
13: Be@st
17: Links24 /
17: Peppywil / /
17: Argentstew /
17: Soveregin
17: King





Singles Pools:

1: Renagade
1: Shugo
1: Blue Rogue
1: Krystedez
5: Infern
5: Nope
5: Kel
5: OS
9: Fizzle
9: Sovereign
9: Count
9: Champ
13: Argentstew
13: Mr. E
13: SneakyTako
13: Ithrowthings
17: Peppywil
17: Y.b.M.
17: Links24
17: Be@st
21: King

^most recent tourney, last weekend

Nobody I've talked to in-person or otherwise has mentioned, "OH WOW THE CHARACTER DIVERSITY WAS GREATTHE TOURNAMENT WAS SO FUN!" (and as you can see, it's pretty average in diversity I think). Everyone talks about how well run the tournament was and how fun the experience is. Ohio has some of the best TOs IMO (AlphaZealot, Nope, and Overswarm) and knows how to run events on time but leisurely. They're fun, the huge majority of the time they house Friday nights beforehand and do events then, but also events the day of. I know at this tournament they did draft crews as well as standard Brawl tourney, and I'm pretty sure they often host some sort of side event like mid-tiers, brawl-, or something. Some tournament a year ago I remember on the livestream they went outside and fired rocket launcher fireworks at each other (lol someone got burned).

tl;dr: They run tournaments really well and do everything right. They pay out to top 5 (6), run pools, have cheap venue fees, good amount of set-ups, comfortable venues, run side events, just hang out and have fun, and they still finish on time. This is all from secondhand experience; all of my tournaments have been in Indiana, but I only hear good things about tournaments from multiple people.

None of them have to do with the amount of MKs.

Am I saying that if there were 7 out of 8 MKs in the top 8, would there be comments on it? Probably. But people aren't happy at the tournaments because there are slightly less MKs placing than normal. When new people come to tournaments, the character they lost to doesn't have as much impact on their memory as how much fun they had at the tournament.

At a Springfield tournament, maybe someone might lose two straight games in brackets, but at least they got to play pools, a side event, hang out with relaxed people, and come home on time. At some other tournaments, someone might be waiting for hours because of how late the tournament's going, then go straight into brackets without pools and lose two straight games, and go home dissatisfied. The people at the first tournament are much more likely to have fun despite losing (and the people at the second are probably more likely to blame their lack of fun on MK if they lost to him both times in bracket).

But honestly, players who may not make it out of pools or place low aren't going to care too much how the top 5 placed and then decide how much fun they had.

THIS IS ALL JUST OUR REGION THOUGH I DUNNO ABOUT YOU GUYS LOL
i rambled and got really redundant probably, sorry

edit: okay Dekar. I (obviously) can't speak for all of their tournament experiences. The results for the most part I'm okay with but that's subjective and I don't live in all of those regions, so yeah.



I really just want to wait and see after MLG. I think discussing this now (especially when nothing new is being brought up) is pointless, redundant, illogical, (insert pseudo-synonym here), and it's unrealistic to think any course of action can be taken at this point. Maybe towards the end of the MLG season this can be brought up again (because at that point it would actually be possible to do something if we decided to) but as of now this thread seems pointless besides a

+1 post count

 

[Gnes]

Since when was DEHF pro-ban?
Also, TKD also dominates WC, though he's not Cali. He beat DEHF and Tyrant at one of those 2GG tournies or something.

TKD also plays mk on cps..(and most likely against pikachus/sheiks if he ever encounters them)

The reason I'm pro-ban isn't simply because M2k "scrooged" me. Its because by that act, I saw something completely unbeatable, and that u cant really limit effectively because of its nature. Seriously everytime i play a mk i wonder why they dont just scrooge/plank once they get the lead. I mean its clearly the most effective way to fight, and when the timer hits 1 min there's a high possibility their going to do it anyways if they have the lead during that time. And dont get me wrong, I love camping/defensive gameplay/whatever u want to call it, but when the only way i can catch mk is by jumping off the stage and offering up prayers to God that one of my moves hit, somethings wrong.

 

[Kaffei]

TKD also plays mk on cps..(and most likely against pikachus/sheiks if he ever encounters them)

The reason I'm pro-ban isn't simply because M2k "scrooged" me. Its because by that act, I saw something completely unbeatable, and that u cant really limit effectively because of its nature. Seriously everytime i play a mk i wonder why they dont just scrooge/plank once they get the lead. I mean its clearly the most effective way to fight, and when the timer hits 1 min there's a high possibility their going to do it anyways if they have the lead during that time. And dont get me wrong, I love camping/defensive gameplay/whatever u want to call it, but when the only way i can catch mk is by jumping off the stage and offering up prayers to God that one of my moves hit, somethings wrong.

why can we just an have air time limit like a LGL no one has given me a solid good reason to why that wouldn't work

 

[Dekar173]

why can we just an have air time limit like a LGL no one has given me a solid good reason to why that wouldn't work

Because that's dancing around the real issue, MK.

No other character can do any of these things even half as well as MK can.



There's your solid good reason.

 

[Chuee]

Japan has a scrooging rule in their ruleset.

 

[Kaffei]

Because that's dancing around the real issue, MK.

No other character can do any of these things even half as well as MK can.



There's your solid good reason.

Then ban him.

Oh wait.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Japan has a scrooging rule in their ruleset.

I remember. It was something like if MK goes under the stage, it's a forefit.

So why aren't any of the planking/scrooging rules in effect for doubles matches????

 

[Raziek]

Japan has a scrooging rule in their ruleset.

And? I think this came up once, and we proved that you can still work around their rule just be tornadoing to the other side of the stage, then resuming.

@Eternal Yoshi

Wasn't it something along the lines of "Mk can only glide under the stage once, then he must land on it."

 

[Chuee]

And? I think this came up once, and we proved that you can still work around their rule just be tornadoing to the other side of the stage, then resuming.

@Eternal Yoshi

Wasn't it something along the lines of "Mk can only glide under the stage once, then he must land on it."

No, the rule is something like MK and Pit can only glide under the stage two times.
Tornado? Ok, do that and get punished for it.

 

[Kaffei]

So why NOT do an air time limit if MK isn't going to be banned.... At least restrict him

 

[John12346]

*previous post*

The tournies down here in NY are well organized too, and we all have a lot of fun(with a few outliers, no names >.> ) regardless of which characters we lose to as well, be it two MKs or any of the other 36^2 possible combinations of characters...

BUT, Ohio's ratio of MKs is definitely lower than that of NY's, hands down, and I'm talking a really significant margin between the two of us.

Gah, that's annoying, I can't really say for sure which of the two is the cause of the happy times around Ohio; the low MK count, the well managed tourney venues, or both.

 

[Chuee]

lol Kaffei theres no reason to put all these unnecessary rules in place so we can limit mk. A planking/scrooging rule and IDC ban is all we need.

 

[Dekar173]

There's already

planking
scrooging
IDC
ledge grab limit



do you really think we should add another rule, instead of banning the character behind every single one of those rules?