Official Metaknight Discussion

[zhao_guang]

just gotta tauntspike those MKs, it'll all be good...

 

[Eddie G]

AvaricePanda speaks the truth about Ohio. We really do have a moderate number of good MKs here (including M2firstplace), but we, as a whole, are not as outspoken about the situation as some other regions might be. Our tournaments are run well, people don't get ticked off, people don't go home broke, and people get to play more than just two tournament matches, so that probably explains why people don't focus as much on character diversity as they do on the fun experience they had. We also have a lot of skilled, knowledgeable, and often overlooked players here probably as a result of a more diverse set of skilled players with different characters. But no...we are certainly not devoid of MK's presence at our tournaments. He is always there... xD

 

[Chuee]

There's already

planking
scrooging
IDC
ledge grab limit



do you really think we should add another rule, instead of banning the character behind every single one of those rules?

lolwut
planking rule and LGL are just about the same thing.

 

[Kaffei]

There's already

planking
scrooging
IDC
ledge grab limit



do you really think we should add another rule, instead of banning the character behind every single one of those rules?

That's what I said if you even bothered to read the previous page. Ban Meta Knight if he is this big of a threat to the community. If you guys aren't going to ban him/can't ban him, restrict him.

I personally don't believe in banning a character if we can have rules to limit him but my opinion is worth nada

 

[AvaricePanda]

An air time limit is unrealistic, not manageable, not enforcable, and not warranted. There's absolutely no reason to make one.

lol I'd much rather put an air time limit on Wario cause he can just run away for 8 minutes with the occasional running reward AKA waft every 55 seconds, but that's just me johning.

 

[Kaffei]

An air time limit is unrealistic, not manageable, not enforcable, and not warranted. There's absolutely no reason to make one.

lol I'd much rather put an air time limit on Wario cause he can just run away for 8 minutes with the occasional running reward AKA waft every 55 seconds, but that's just me johning.

At the end of each match if you scroll down you can see an airtime along with # of ledge grabs.
If that's too hard(lol) then ive lost a lot of hope for the community. just ban MK if he is such a poison

 

[AvaricePanda]

But why would we need an air time limit in the first place? Planking and scrooging(maybe, I still don't know enough about it but I'll assume yes) makes sense because they're legitimate, realistically unbeatable strategies. MK just being in the air is an advantage.

Limiting MKs time in the air (and also making them often nervous that they're spending too much time in the air, thus changing their gameplay) is an unnecessary restriction. I can't think of a reason to put an air time limit because it's not limiting a stalling or broken strategy.

 

[Kaffei]

But why would we need an air time limit in the first place? Planking and scrooging(maybe, I still don't know enough about it but I'll assume yes) makes sense because they're legitimate, realistically unbeatable strategies. MK just being in the air is an advantage.

Limiting MKs time in the air (and also making them often nervous that they're spending too much time in the air, thus changing their gameplay) is an unnecessary restriction. I can't think of a reason to put an air time limit because it's not limiting a stalling or broken strategy.

And Scrooging is not MK in the air? I'm not talking about air camping im talking about flying under the stage so much where a significant air time can be used as a basis for saying "you are officially scrooging, you are dqed"

 

[fkacyan]

MK loses when air camping to several characters. If all he could do was air camp we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[bigbucks]

I will like proban to explain this one tiny thing to me.


What's the problem with restricting a certain characters broken tactic?
it only lets them be legal in the game, allowing for players who have trained with mk since the beggining continue to stick with there main without being forced to pick up another character that they do not feel comfortable with. :/

An alot of you people dont really know how certain top players will react if mk was banned.


Look at M2k, he has said that brawl is a boring piece of **** without mk, an that he will quit brawl if he was banned. Ever though of that?

 

[Kaffei]

I will like proban to explain this one tiny thing to me.


What's the problem with restricting a certain characters broken tactic?

An alot of you people dont really know how certain top players will react if mk was banned.


Look at M2k, he has said that brawl is a boring piece of **** without mk, an that he will quit brawl if he was banned. Ever though of that?

As if one top player represents the entire community. Think about what's important.

 

[bigbucks]

As if one top player represents the entire community. Think about what's important.

I mean in general. >_> not M2k only

 

[Kaffei]

I mean in general. >_> not M2k only

Alright, so then let's restrict MK by adding more rules. But pro ban doesn't want to! oh no

 

[bigbucks]

Its like people are lazy to add some stinking rules. :/

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I seriously think we should either set a temp-ban criteria for after MLG this year or just lock the thread. Otherwise nothing will get done in this thread.

 

[Dekar173]

What's the problem with restricting a certain characters broken tactic?
it only lets them be legal in the game, allowing for players who have trained with mk since the beggining continue to stick with there main without being forced to pick up another character that they do not feel comfortable with. :/

Think about what you're saying for a second.

A lot of players have to drop their main in order to contend against MK players, is it fair to them to allow MKs to keep playing?

Your point is moot.

 

[Goldenadept]

if losing a couple mk mains means fixing an otherwise broken game then so be it

they would be missed though

 

[fkacyan]

I seriously think we should either set a temp-ban criteria for after MLG this year or just lock the thread. Otherwise nothing will get done in this thread.

>Implying that the thread should not have been closed hundreds of pages ago

 

[bigbucks]

Think about what you're saying for a second.

A lot of players have to drop their main in order to contend against MK players, is it fair to them to allow MKs to keep playing?

Your point is moot.

Care to give examples?

 

[bigbucks]

if losing a couple mk mains means fixing an otherwise broken game then so be it

they would be missed though

So the only reason this game is unbalanced is because of mk?

Oh god the ignorance. :/

 

[Kaffei]

Think about what you're saying for a second.

A lot of players have to drop their main in order to contend against MK players, is it fair to them to allow MKs to keep playing?

Your point is moot.

Then maybe they should pick a character that can compete with MK.
inb4 MK.
Nothing can be 100% fair

 

[Red Arremer]

if losing a couple mk mains means fixing an otherwise broken game then so be it

lol.

Brawl won't become an awesome competitive fighting game magically when you just snap your fingers and ban the blue ball(s).

It is not a very good competitive fighting game in the first place because its developers didn't balance the game like at all; same goes for any other Smash game, it just happened so that it worked in 64.

If you want to play an "un-broken" game, go play Street Fighter or Guilty Gear or something.

 

[bigbucks]

If the player in question finds it frustrating to fight mks, then he should either switch his main or study the matchup more than usual.

Same applys to any character that gets ***** by *insert non mk character here*

 

[bigbucks]

lol.

Brawl won't magically become an awesome competitive fighting game magically when you just snap your fingers and ban the blue ball(s).

It is not a very good competitive fighting game in the first place because its developers didn't balance the game like at all; same goes for any other Smash game, it just happened so that it worked in 64.

If you want to play an "un-broken" game, go play Street Fighter or Guilty Gear or something.

An this is subjective. :/

 

[Kaffei]

It's not subjective. The developers intended Smash to be a party lulz game, and we forced it into a competitive game.

 

[theunabletable]

There's already

planking
scrooging
IDC
ledge grab limit



do you really think we should add another rule, instead of banning the character behind every single one of those rules?

Uhm LGLs and planking are the same thing...

And what tourneys have scrooging limits?

I personally don't believe in banning a character if we can have rules to limit him but my opinion is worth nada

I somewhat agree. If it's better for the community to have a limited MK than having an unrestricted MK or a banned MK, I'd say limit him.

I love how Dekar states that anti-ban doesn't care about the community (loladhominemfromamod), but thinks that the idea of limiting him for the sake of the community is bad.

 

[Kaffei]

Uhm LGLs and planking are the same thing...

And what tourneys have scrooging limits?

Which is why I suggested an air time limit but no one cares about what I say because
1) setting an air time limit is work
2) i dont have a purple name

and ban brinstar

 

[rPSIvysaur]

>Implying that the thread should not have been closed hundreds of pages ago

>Implying that it should have been. But really feel like the bush has been uprooted, the hole filled in, another bush planted, the bush killed again and pruned, and beaten into fertilizer.

So is anyone actually willing to make progress by actually coming up with criteria?

 

[Red Arremer]

An this is subjective. :/

****ing crashboards ate my post. Grrrr.

Anyway, it's not subjective.
I've played TONS of fighting games, this genre is my absolute favorite. I played fighting games you've most likely not even heard of, yet alone played them. Probably even on consoles you've never heard of before, lol.

The thing is: A lot of those fighting games suck competitively because the developers didn't put much time into refining balance or their special systems. Or the game just plainly sucked.

Brawl - but also Smash as a whole series - is badly executed when it comes to competitive value due to its poor balance and execution of certain things; even programming (they put a ****ing error into Ganondorf's code, can you believe that? lol). In fact, it might've turned out better if it would actually be finished, but it's not. Additionally to that, the developers never intended it to be played competitively, even the producer, Sakurai himself, said so. Character balance just worked in Smash 64 by accident, and so did the technical stuff in Melee.

So, you got games that actually are trying to achieve balance and competitive value, and you got games that have traces of competitive value, but don't make good competitive games. Smash series is among them. It's got its competitive merits, but it's still mediocre in those terms.

If you can't accept that Smash is a flawed game competitively, you should look a bit closer and maybe play some other fighting games, and read up on their forums and guides.

And, you might ask why I am playing Smash, hell why I am even in the BBR - well, my answer is that I enjoy playing Brawl, even with its ****load of flaws. In fact, those flaws make it a very charming game to me. And I enjoy hosting events and tournaments for people who play this fun game.

 

[Kaffei]

>Implying that it should have been. But really feel like the bush has been uprooted, the hole filled in, another bush planted, the bush killed again and pruned, and beaten into fertilizer.

So is anyone actually willing to make progress by actually coming up with criteria?

-Ban Brinstar &/or RC.
-Air time limit for MK.

 

[Chuee]

A lot of players have to drop their main in order to contend against MK players, is it fair to them to allow MKs to keep playing?

Theres plenty of people who have to use a secondary to contend with characters who hard counter their main.
Nobody should have to pick up a secondary for mk unless he hard counters their main.

 

[Red Arremer]

-Ban Brinstar

The f***, no.

You already took Norfair from me, you can't take my second-favorite stage.

 

[theunabletable]

Which is why I suggested an air time limit but no one cares about what I say because
1) setting an air time limit is work
2) i dont have a purple name

and ban brinstar

I think an air time limit is unnecesary, tbh; because his air camping really doesn't seem broken.

If Brinstar or even RC (maybe both) were banned, honestly I don't think MK would be that much of a problem (maaaaaaybe combined with a scrooging limit but I'm unsure on my opinions of scrooging limits right now).

I think a metagame with a scrooging-less, planking-less, and no RC or Brinstar MK would honestly be really healthy.

It's worth some testing atleast, imo.

Although I'm currently against banning RC and Brinstar.

 

[bigbucks]

****ing crashboards ate my post. Grrrr.

Anyway, it's not subjective.
I've played TONS of fighting games, this genre is my absolute favorite. I played fighting games you've most likely not even heard of, yet alone played them. Probably even on consoles you've never heard of before, lol.

The thing is: A lot of those fighting games suck competitively because the developers didn't put much time into refining balance or their special systems. Or the game just plainly sucked.

Brawl - but also Smash as a whole series - is badly executed when it comes to competitive value due to its poor balance and execution of certain things; even programming (they put a ****ing error into Ganondorf's code, can you believe that? lol). In fact, it might've turned out better if it would actually be finished, but it's not. Additionally to that, the developers never intended it to be played competitively, even the producer, Sakurai himself, said so. Character balance just worked in Smash 64 by accident, and so did the technical stuff in Melee.

So, you got games that actually are trying to achieve balance and competitive value, and you got games that have traces of competitive value, but don't make good competitive games. Smash series is among them. It's got its competitive merits, but it's still mediocre in those terms.

If you can't accept that Smash is a flawed game competitively, you should look a bit closer and maybe play some other fighting games, and read up on their forums and guides.

And, you might ask why I am playing Smash, hell why I am even in the BBR - well, my answer is that I enjoy playing Brawl, even with its ****load of flaws. In fact, those flaws make it a very charming game to me. And I enjoy hosting events and tournaments for people who play this fun game.

Doesn't change that this post is completely subjective.


I play blazblue, I find SF boring. But its .
my opinion that i like smash in there competitive forms.

Games will always have there glitches, no game is perfect.

IMO anyways

 

[Kaffei]

I think an air time limit is unnecesary, tbh; because his air camping really doesn't seem broken.

If Brinstar or even RC (maybe both) were banned, honestly I don't think MK would be that much of a problem (maaaaaaybe combined with a scrooging limit but I'm unsure on my opinions of scrooging limits right now).

I think a metagame with a scrooging-less, planking-less, and no RC or Brinstar MK would honestly be really healthy.

It's worth some testing atleast, imo.

Although I'm currently against banning RC and Brinstar.

My god I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT AIR CAMPING.
Scrooging INVOLVES mk being IN THE AIR, and if he scrooges to the point where the air time is significantly higher than normal, we can DQ the MK. The only problem is setting the "norm" for MK's air time. So this is basically a scrooging limit. It also prevents matches like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4stvp7APq8 we can save time too

Ban Brinstar &/or RC because MK has two or more CPs he can rely on, while other "viable" chars have like.. FD.

 

[Turbo Ether]

No point in banning him when the game is still ****, regardless. Snake, Diddy, Falco, Wario and Ice Climbers are just as likely to induce sleep, as a planking/scrooging MK.

 

[Chuee]

Ban Brinstar &/or RC because MK has two or more CPs he can rely on, while other "viable" chars have like.. FD.

And their best stage.

 

[Kaffei]

And their best stage.

Sorry I don't know what you mean by "their" :x

No point in banning him when the game is still ****, regardless. Snake, Diddy, Falco, Wario and Ice Climbers are just as likely to induce sleep, as a planking/scrooging MK.

-___________-

 

[Red Arremer]

Doesn't change that this post is completely subjective.


I play blazblue, I find SF boring. But its .
my opinion that i like smash in there competitive forms.

Games will always have there glitches, no game is perfect.

IMO anyways

No. lol

First of all, there's differences between a glitch and an unfinished game with tons of errors and evidence pointing at it being unfinished. I just mentioned that programming error in Ganon's code cause it's the most obvious example of it.

Subjective is if I said "Street Fighter is more fun if you play it competitively". Which I didn't say. I said that Street Fighter (just going with it as an example, same goes for other series) has more competitive value, and that is an undeniable fact, considering that the developers are deliberately trying to create a well-balanced character roster and a competitive atmosphere. I am not speaking up my feelings, but technical information as well as conclusions drawn from that information.

Smash is not intended to be played competitively. It wasn't intended to have a balanced roster, but to have a diverse roster with lots of characters so everyone can find a character that suits them.
There's glaring differences between games actually aimed at competitive players and games like Smash.

This has nothing to do with "fun" or any feelings.
Being a developer myself, Brawl is a disaster. It's like a Beta version to me.

I nevertheless LOVE Brawl, it's one of my favorite games, one of my favorite fighting games, and I enjoy the competitive play, even though it might not be as good as those of other fighters.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Which is why I suggested an air time limit but no one cares about what I say because
1) setting an air time limit is work
2) i dont have a purple name

and ban brinstar

The real problem with setting an airtime limit is that it's near impossible for players to keep track of it.