Official Metaknight Discussion

[Turbo Ether]

DMG, its easy to change the AN mind on alot of issues. You alienate them in all ways. If they refuse to hold mk banned events, then you do not count thier results on the world ranking or ankokus ranking. Dont advertise thier events. Make other events on the day of THIER events to hurt thier numbers. You must punish people untill they learn.

Such dirty tactics...

I like!

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

That's brilliant.

3 starters = fail.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

No, 3 starters is just the best.

And 3 CPs too. Just ask Japan

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

No, 3 starters is just the best.

And 3 CPs too. Just ask Japan

What makes it worse, one of those is potentially the worst starter on the 7 or even 9 starter list!

 

[Jack Kieser]

DMG, its easy to change the AN mind on alot of issues. You alienate them in all ways. If they refuse to hold mk banned events, then you do not count thier results on the world ranking or ankokus ranking. Dont advertise thier events. Make other events on the day of THIER events to hurt thier numbers. You must punish people untill they learn.

Xyro... I absolutely love the way you think. <3

 

[etecoon]

what xyro fails to understand is that it's not only going to be atlantic north, and both sides will be doing the same thing. the difference is that pro ban will go to MK allowed tournaments, they already do, if they felt that strongly about it they'd be hosting MK banned tournaments and boycotting real tournaments already. MK mains will not go to MK banned tournaments, obviously, the attendance would reflect this.

assuming MK were to be banned, which we all know isn't going to happen anyway

 

[Calzorz]

Imo Snake's matchups get harder once MK gets banned.

Playing good Marths, Olimars and Dededes is a lot more frustrating (not necessarily harder) than playing good MKs.

i rather play m2k and tryant at the same time than a good marth the matchup is boring and gay

 

[etecoon]

the marth/snake MU is fun

from marth's side >: D

 

[Jack Kieser]

Not really.

A ) Pro-ban doesn't want to go against MLG or the SBR. If one or the other approves it, all it takes is one TO per region to stand up, and the pro-ban players will flock. Ultimately, people are lazy; if someone does the work for them, they'll be happy.

B ) Just because pro-ban goes to MK tournaments now, you know, when there are no alternatives, does not mean they will when there is another option for them.

C ) My personal guess is that most of the people that hate MK enough to ban him like the game enough to not stop playing, which is why they aren't boycotting right now.

Give the people the option, and they'll go to MK-banned events (AN notwithstanding). Of course, AN doesn't want to give the option because they know Xyro's scenario is actually pretty possible, and they don't want to look like tools for being whiny children. Therefore, block a temp-ban and don't let people have the option to out them for the tools they are.

 

[etecoon]

eh, either way it's all hypothetical. MK won't be banned so there's not much point fantasizing about how things would be if he were, I'll leave that to xyro : p

 

[swordgard]

Not really.

A ) Pro-ban doesn't want to go against MLG or the SBR. If one or the other approves it, all it takes is one TO per region to stand up, and the pro-ban players will flock. Ultimately, people are lazy; if someone does the work for them, they'll be happy.

B ) Just because pro-ban goes to MK tournaments now, you know, when there are no alternatives, does not mean they will when there is another option for them.

C ) My personal guess is that most of the people that hate MK enough to ban him like the game enough to not stop playing, which is why they aren't boycotting right now.

Give the people the option, and they'll go to MK-banned events (AN notwithstanding). Of course, AN doesn't want to give the option because they know Xyro's scenario is actually pretty possible, and they don't want to look like tools for being whiny children. Therefore, block a temp-ban and don't let people have the option to out them for the tools they are.

What you and xyro are proposing actually makes proban look like whiny children. You don't force your opinions onto others, otherwise you are no better than them.

 

[Raziek]

What you and xyro are proposing actually makes proban look like whiny children. You don't force your opinions onto others, otherwise you are no better than them.

When they're doing the same thing, I fail to see any problem in stooping to their level to get the job done.

 

[Jack Kieser]

You're right. We should debate and fight endlessly without any real action or progress because to do otherwise would be to force someone else to do something.

Oh, but wait. Their actions are forcing the status quo onto people that want things to change, as well as other people who want to find out if things should change.

So, I guess what you're saying is, it's ok for AN to force their view onto people just because it happens to be the status quo, and it's ok for them to ****-block progress because their position is the status quo, but for us to force them to even try something different, we're being unfair.

That makes total sense. Thanks for setting me straight. :/

 

[etecoon]

no one is forcing anything, if you think MK should be banned HOST TOURNAMENTS WHERE MK IS BANNED. no one from the BBR is going to show up and go "this is illegal you know!" I promise

 

[John12346]

I seem to recall Wes holding a few MK banned tournies a few months back in NY, and they actually had a pretty decent turnout.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Yes, but as of now, MK banned events aren't official. There's no reason for them to be valid for PR or Ankoku's thread because that's not how we, as a community, play. If we want real, statistically valid results, we need a concerted community effort. Like I said before, having all of the top players ragequit for 6 months dilutes the data and takes out important measurements, so having one TO (like Xyro in TX, for instance) ban MK isn't enough.

The fact of the matter is that people have banned MK, and it's not enough. One prominent, nationals-hosting TO per region is the bare minimum, and except for people with balls (like Xyro), nationals-hosting TOs aren't going to ban MK because, as of now, it will lose them money and prestige... in part, thanks to people like those in AN.

 

[etecoon]

actually hosting MK banned events as of now is good for attendance because it has novelty, xyro even said that his attendance is higher when he bans MK. it would only become a problem when everyone does it. I don't see why not being part of ankoku's chart is supposed to discourage people from hosting tournaments...

 

[John12346]

Well, I was just pointing out that a few MK banned tournies in the Atlantic North had pretty decent turnouts.

I believe there was some talk in regard to, "No one would show up to tournies anymore if MK were banned"? I was responding to that. ^^;

 

[Jack Kieser]

Because I'm not talking about isolated tournaments, I'm talking about why AN could block a temp ban.

You specifically said "no one is forcing anything", and I'm telling you that's not true. I, personally, don't care about random MK-less tournaments; I'm looking at the long-term. I'm looking at the Crow!-style statistical data, or rather, at what must be done to obtain it. Just because we have one TO that's doing what he should be doesn't mean he'll be able to gather all the data we would have gathered from a nation-wide 6-month temp ban on his own, and that's all that matters to me right now.

So, yes, AN is forcing TOs not to go with the temp ban experiment because they have a lot of top MKs, players that will be very necessary to gather good data about a MK temp ban. We could theoretically do it without them, but we'll be missing a great mine of data.

Also, more TOs won't act without permission. And the BBR probably won't give that anytime soon. Because god knows why.

 

[etecoon]

the BBR DOESN'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY, it is impossible to have "permission" from the BBR. and how are top MK players relevant to a temp ban? you think 2 years of experience can be replicated in 6 months and that you'll have an honest comparison there? LOL

w/e keep blaming AN for pro bans inability to get anything done because xyro is the only one of you that has a spine

 

[John12346]

Also, more TOs won't act without permission. And the BBR probably won't give that anytime soon.

Well, y'never know, they might be discussing it. I think we're past the point of debating things as regulars, and should just wait patiently for the BBR's decision.

Edit: Nvm Jack vs etecoon gogogo

 

[Espy Rose]

They don't have authority, but they have one hell of an influence, etecoon. If the BBR tells everyone that MK is legal, then he's legal.

Likewise if they ever, for some reason, said he was banned.

Also, more TOs won't act without permission. And the BBR probably won't give that anytime soon. Because god knows why.

You can also blame MLG for slowing everything down in regards to a decision.

 

[Jack Kieser]

the BBR DOESN'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY

And that's all I needed to read to know you have no clue what you're talking about.

They have no explicit authority. Doesn't mean that their word doesn't hold a ton of weight. I will put 20$ on pay pal right now that if the BBR came out today and said, "Ok, here's our next official ruleset, btw, 6-month temp ban on MK nationwide from the day after the end of the MLG season", we would see a surge of TO support for the ban.

And if Ankoku ever said "only MK banned events count for 6 months" or if whoever runs PR said "only MK banned events count for 6 months", that would be it.

Also, lol@John12346.

 

[etecoon]

They don't have authority, but they have one hell of an influence, etecoon. If the BBR tells everyone that MK is legal, then he's legal.

they never actually said this though, the last time they made a thread about it they specifically said that they encourage people to experiment with it and that they weren't taking a stance on it one way or the other.

And that's all I needed to read to know you have no clue what you're talking about.

why are you even here shouldn't you be advocating item use or something. META KNIGHT WON'T BE A PROBLEM IF WE ALLOW SMASH BALLS GUYS

 

[Jack Kieser]

Exactly. They basically said, "you can put forth effort, but there will be no concentrated, official effort from us. Rankings won't be affected at all either way. So, have fun with that."

What do you think is going to happen when they say that? I guarantee you, if they say that rankings will be affected, look out. Rageragerage.

why are you even here shouldn't you be advocating item use or something. META KNIGHT WON'T BE A PROBLEM IF WE ALLOW SMASH BALLS GUYS

Why do people keep bringing this up? Smash Balls are broken. I don't advocate items in official play, and never have. Jeez.

 

[John12346]

Edit: Nvm, ignore, I get the feeling my intended message will derail this shiz

Double Edit: Dangit Espy.

 

[Espy Rose]

Go! Go! Sonic! Go! Go! Sonic!

Blue streak speeds by,
Sonic the Hedgehog
Too fast for the naked eye-

Edit: Ha! I got in before the edit John! Your message ain't going nowhere!

 

[etecoon]

Why do people keep bringing this up? Smash Balls are broken. I don't advocate items in official play, and never have. Jeez.

can't explain other people but in my case I'm just goofing off in this thread anyway, wasn't intended seriously lol

 

[Jack Kieser]

Sorry, a lot of people really think I do that. I don't know why.

Although, I really, really wish we could hack Brawl to give Final Smashes a super meter or something. That'd be cool. Then, we could PSA them, and... I'll stop now.

Also, lololol, Sonic theme songs.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

why are you even here shouldn't you be advocating item use or something. META KNIGHT WON'T BE A PROBLEM IF WE ALLOW SMASH BALLS GUYS

Sigh....
I played BOTH with items and without and take it from me.

Items DO NOT in any way help the MK issue.

In fact, due to his movepool allowing him to cover more of the stage effectively than anyone else and his large amount of safe GO AWAY moves, items can make the issue WORSE.

Anyway, MLG gave this community a time bonus(it was showing dangerous signs of retiring beforehand, look at the thread's posts with dates before the announcement for proof) so I don't think we should blame them.

 

[Calzorz]

the marth/snake MU is fun

from marth's side >: D

haha yea every marth enjoys the matchup every snake hates it what does this tell everyone XD

 

[-Ran]

We should just have a vote for a Temp Ban, and if it reaches remotely close to 50%, then do it. I can name ten players in my state that would start to play Brawl again if MK was banned. That would pretty much double our tournament's average turn out now. The thing is, it isn't just about the good MK players, but the stigma associated to MK. We don't really have many MK players in the state of Louisiana, much less good ones; however, there's something about MK and the controversy around him that causes a marked distaste for Brawl for certain members.

It seems the mere chance that they'll play an MK is enough to make them not even care for Brawl, or they realized that if they put in the time that they had with their main into MK they'd be a much better player. There's something to be said about how depressing and demoralizing it can be to have all your efforts crushed by a single character which forces you to learn multiple characters to deal with. Now, before people balk at this statement saying that it truly only involves 'scrubs' and 'n00bs,' please remember that the foundation of any tournament community is the players that aren't great at the game. If all you have is the best people in the state playing, then the few new players that will show up are going to get destroyed and immediately get turned off the game. Furthermore, without a healthy pool of new players, the money derived from the tournaments [which then allow for the winners to go Out of State] begins to shrink.

 

[swordgard]

When they're doing the same thing, I fail to see any problem in stooping to their level to get the job done.

They are not, in any way, forcing you to be anti ban. They have status quo, so it is our job to convince them.

You're right. We should debate and fight endlessly without any real action or progress because to do otherwise would be to force someone else to do something.

Oh, but wait. Their actions are forcing the status quo onto people that want things to change, as well as other people who want to find out if things should change.

So, I guess what you're saying is, it's ok for AN to force their view onto people just because it happens to be the status quo, and it's ok for them to ****-block progress because their position is the status quo, but for us to force them to even try something different, we're being unfair.

That makes total sense. Thanks for setting me straight. :/

You can keep your sarcasm to yourself. AN has no power really, if MLG or BBR banned MK, AN could go down the drain and nobody would care.

You don't force your opinions onto others, you use logic to convert them. What you are essentially doing is saying "**** your opinion, were right". Now for all I know, its mostly people that are extremist that make both sides look bad. So please stop trying to solve everything by accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being the meanies and try to open up your mind a bit.

 

[Raziek]

^this is all well and good, and I agree with you, but it's just not as simple as a vote, especially since we can't feasibly do anything while MLG is in season.

Edit: my ^ was to Ran Iji.

And to Swordgard, most of them HAVE admitted that there are compelling arguments on pro-ban, but when we do everything in our power to present our case, and people like Omni go, "No u", ignore us, and take efforts to reduce the chance of a temp ban, it's hard not to be pissed.

And, refusing to even allow experimentation is in fact forcing us to be anti-ban, since it's the same result as if they won the debate.

edit2: I feel I should clarify that when I say experimentation, I mean in the form of a nation-wide temp ban, not just a few TOs, as jack has mentioned.

 

[etecoon]

We should just have a vote for a Temp Ban, and if it reaches remotely close to 50%, then do it.

the rest of your post was good but shouldn't it be, you know, over 50%? that shouldn't prove a problem anyway as all polls for a PERMANENT ban of MK had pro ban winning with over 50%

 

[Ripple]

perma-ban needs at least 2/3

 

[swordgard]

^this is all well and good, and I agree with you, but it's just not as simple as a vote, especially since we can't feasibly do anything while MLG is in season.

Edit: my ^ was to Ran Iji.

And to Swordgard, most of them HAVE admitted that there are compelling arguments on pro-ban, but when we do everything in our power to present our case, and people like Omni go, "No u", ignore us, and take efforts to reduce the chance of a temp ban, it's hard not to be pissed.

And, refusing to even allow experimentation is in fact forcing us to be anti-ban, since it's the same result as if they won the debate.

edit2: I feel I should clarify that when I say experimentation, I mean in the form of a nation-wide temp ban, not just a few TOs, as jack has mentioned.

Except the people you are talking about in fact have very little power for the most part on the decision.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Hey, swordgard, I don't feel like namesearching; now many AN players / TOs are in the BBR?

Please and thank you.

Actually, now that I think about it... that info should be added to the OP of the BBR public relations thread in Brawl General. Region and main. Pierce7D should get on that.

 

[-Ran]

the rest of your post was good but shouldn't it be, you know, over 50%? that shouldn't prove a problem anyway as all polls for a PERMANENT ban of MK had pro ban winning with over 50%

Not really. If half of the community is for a temp-ban at this point (after humoring the other half of the community who doesn't want the ban for years), we should take the time to see if those opinions would shift with a temporary ban. It's the stalwart thinking that individuals have that are causing this to drag out. We are fully capable of changing our rules, even with MLG being in progress.

They will change to accommodate us. This is our community, our game, and our rules.

 

[Raziek]

Except the people you are talking about in fact have very little power for the most part on the decision.

Does this change the fact that some of them are trying to obstruct an otherwise justifiably sound proposition? All I'm saying is that frustration from pro-ban is inevitable considering SOME of the thick-headed resistance on the other side.