Official Metaknight Discussion

[Justblaze647]

Ah, touche...

Low kicks ftw

 

[St. Viers]

So, it's more nuanced then that, but how many people here actually know enough about fighting to really understand the distinction?

*raises hand* =P

Back on topic, I'd like to address people's problem with the "arbitrary number" aspect they see in LGLs. While it's truethat boiled down, any number being picked for the limit is artificially selected, there is no reason it has to be arbitrary. If one were to look at a slew of tourney matches, one could find the average number of times someone has grabbed the ledge w/o having planked, and find the highest reasonable amount of LGs matches had (for example, if the average LG amount was 30, but a large group of people had 35-40 grabs per match, going solely by the average would be inconveniencing people. However, if the average was 30, an you had one or two matches that had 60 grabs, those points would be outliers, and the LGL would bt be set that high.

Another important point is that *all* rules 'arbitrarily' limit things, and disadvantage some players. I won't even go into Chain-grab rules, because they've been done to death, but even basic rules like stock number, timer, stage selection, all of those can be considered just as arbitrary as a well developed LGL, that is to say, that the reason games are 3 stock has been considered in depth, so that even if some people wanted a different number, they have adapted to play with the rule of 3 stocks, the same with stages like luigi's mansion, and the same with having the time set to a certain amount--each of these rules were thought about, and although didn't have 100% approval, are now the accepted norm.

 

[Orion*]

Your going to go offstage to hit MK, lol.

i actually wouuld and have.... ive taken stocks from ksizzle (i was falco )and inui (mk ditto) in tournament and inui was a mm that way

learn2technoob

but that not my point, mk cant stay on the ledge for 8 minutes with a 50 ledge grab rule limit. even if they are spread out you have to hit him when he lands on the stage.

300% is the highest percent you can start the match with using a handicap.

thats ******** and completely unrelated

lol
Assuming this is true, you'd think he'd know the Diddy matchup.

he knows the diddy matchups. he doesnt know the ADHD matchup.

if he was honestly not doing the mu right then other diddys would **** his face off. its not like theyre incapable. its almost insulting to how good other top diddys are to say they are getting beat by someone who doesnt know how to play the matchup

 

[fkacyan]

Hence the issue between theorycrafting on paper, and applying said assumptions in real life...

It just rarely ever turn out that way.

I'm well aware of the difference between theorycrafting and the actual game. I was around when the term was created, and have played both of the games where it has seen the most legitimate use.

My theory involves more than that specific matchup, and is a general overarching theme for how matchups function in general given specific character traits.

Also, sadface at being infracted for making a joke about MMA. ;_;

 

[OverLade]

i actually wouuld and have.... ive taken stocks from ksizzle (i was falco )and inui (mk ditto) in tournament and inui was a mm that way

learn2technoob

You're trying to theorycraft off of mechanical precision and not human ability which is impossible, because not even the top 1% of players never get stage spiked/always tech/never mispace. It's simply not safe to go off stage vs MK as a rule unless you're once of like 3 characters and even then you're still risking losing a stock.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=268965

Go there, post there...

 

[Justblaze647]

I'm well aware of the difference between theorycrafting and the actual game.

Are you sure about that? I just went to your youtube channel, and if this is how you actually play the game, you are quite terrible. Even with MK.

No offense...

 

[OverLade]

I'm well aware of the difference between theorycrafting and the actual game.

No.

From reading the posts in this thread, NONE OF YOU have a clue.

And when I say NONE OF YOU, I mean it in ****ing capital letters...

 

[etecoon]

hey now, that's not fair judging us on this

half of us only troll here <_<

 

[fkacyan]

Are you sure about that? I just went to your youtube channel, and if this is how you actually play the game, you are quite terrible. Even with MK.

No offense...

Somebody cannot be knowledgable about something if they themselves do not excel at it?

Man, there are a lot of sports analysts we should be firing, then.

Also, months-old-friendlies don't really indicate the level of player people are. I nearly beat Ninjalink's Diddy in the last tourney I participated in.

From reading the posts in this thread, NONE OF YOU have a clue.

And when I say NONE OF YOU, I mean it in ****ing capital letters...

Enlighten me, then, as to how I've been using it improperly?

 

[Judo777]

...

You realize I was saying exactly that, I was making a point to somebody threatening to punch anybody who planked him in the face.


The point was:

1. IRL, you have no idea who can kick the crap out of you if you try (I was just using myself as an example because it happens to be a specialty of mine).

2. IRL, you'd get kicked out of the tournament.

3. IRL, you'd be eligible to get arrested.

4. IRL, you'd be eligible to get sued.



TL;DR: Threatening bodily harm to people who use strategies you don't like is stupid, cause if you carry it out you're probably in a worse situation then he is. Also, lrn2read.


Oh and lol@having to warn somebody when they attack me, when you attack somebody, you assume all the associated risks.



I'm more of a striker actually, my spacing is amazing so I'm good at avoiding grappling situations until my opponent is ready for a submission of some kind (aka barely conscious).


Also, lol@grappling=sweaty **** punching.

I wasn't saying that u didn't have said training that u have because that is nothing remarkable i wasn't doubting u. If u were saying that u were using it as an example to demonstrate that threatening people is online is dumb then my bad i misread. It sounded to me like another stupid argument of who can beat u who irl.

However what i said was not wrong. There has been a trend now for several years of world class boxers getting much more serious charges for assault and battery because using their fists can be considered deadly force. Its under criteria for justifiable homicide which can also be applied for lesser cases of assault and battery crimes.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No.

From reading the posts in this thread, NONE OF YOU have a clue.

And when I say NONE OF YOU, I mean it in ****ing capital letters...

Oh wise Red Halberd, teach us the ways of gaining a clue.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

hey now, that's not fair judging us on this

half of us only troll here <_<

Half of us should get out of this thread.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Half of us should get out of this thread.

Half of us (not you) should get some sleep rather than trolling 24/7.

 

[etecoon]

Half of us should get out of this thread.

the only difference between you and me is that I'm doing it intentionally for my own amusement, you think the discussion in this topic actually affects anything and treat it as srs bizinezz. this topic is completely inconsequential.

I guess it does have some usefulness though, if you post here about 8,000 times they might let you in the BR even though you have no reputation as a player and consistently make posts that make people question whether or not you even play this game

 

[Mew2King]

Ally 2, 1, and 3 stocked Dojo in finals of no koast yesterday

 

[etecoon]

ally is an outlier, top players don't count, dojo would've won if he planked more, pity me because I main ike etc.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I have posted this time and time again and I shall post it again. Quit debating and actually start doing stuff. Anyone who is not a TO shut-up, and those that are TO experiment with banning and not banning. If you start to see some actual noticable differences in tournament performance and attendence then consider possibly banning MK more or not banning him some more.

ally is an outlier, top players don't count, dojo would've won if he planked more, pity me because I main ike etc.

^ This post is really from an honest person in troll clothing. Do not believe it.

 

[etecoon]

I'm not even sure what that means -_-

 

[theunabletable]

His ability to stall has everything to do with it. If he can work around any rules we place on him to try and stop this something is seriously wrong about how we go about this.

His other forms of stalling do not apply to the SBR definition of stalling. We HAVE to establish a rule to enforce the no-stalling rule BEFORE we do anything else in this debate.

The other forms don't apply and are beatable, right now I am not talking about those, though. The MK specific LGL would be to prevent his unbeatable stalling (which is already against the rulse), not specifically for any other purpose.

We've had LGL's, from the fact MK can still planking without fear of it and can work his magic to try stall out games.

I have trouble believing that he'd be able to do DMGs style of hardcore planking for a very long span of time with a 20 ledge grab limit (MK specific, applicable only to time out).

Before we even bother talking about his other various ways to time you out, I'd really like to first establish that we NEED an LGL solely because of his stalling that fits the SBR definition.

Do you agree with an LGL?

@other people: Please don't bother responding to these posts mentioning anything at all about scrooging or his beatable planking. The sole purpose of the posts I'm making right now are to establish that we need an LGL before we move on to anything else.

IF YOU DO MENTION SCROOGING or any other form of MK stalling that doesn't apply to the SBR definition of stalling (IE only talk about DMGs hardcore stalling and whether or not it justifies the use of an LGL), I will not reply as that is not at all what I am focusing on right now.

 

[Luigi player]

ally is an outlier, top players don't count, dojo would've won if he planked more, pity me because I main ike etc.

Bassem also beat Dojo...

 

[Mew2King]

yeah WARIO vs MK in a last hit set from what Affinity told me. Look at how Dojo does vs DMG by comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jozNpZhp9o

i hate the outlier argument, because it shows the current metagame, where the top 4 are MK/Snake Diddy Falco. Ease of use does not matter at top level (it could matter with like, Melee Fox, but definitely not in brawl)

 

[Chuee]

Oh, wait Wario goes 60-40 with MK..........................................

 

[TP]

yeah WARIO vs MK in a last hit set from what Affinity told me. Look at how Dojo does vs DMG by comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jozNpZhp9o

i hate the outlier argument, because it shows the current metagame, where the top 4 are MK/Snake Diddy Falco. Ease of use does not matter at top level (it could matter with like, Melee Fox, but definitely not in brawl)

You, ADHD, and Ally are not outliers because of what you do with your characters, but rather because of how incredibly well you analyze each situation that occurs throughout the match, as well as your ability to essentially read the opponent's mind. The three of you show what a person is capable of, not what the characters are really like.

 

[Masmasher@]

Isnt that what you as a part of a smash community should be striving for?

 

[ShadowLink84]

stuff

There are many ways to deal with this post.
The easy way=flame
Hard way=reason with the troll
Best way=ignore button.

Guess which I chose?

 

[Judo777]

Oh dude Otochun beat a good akuma player at Xmania lets not ban akuma either.

Life is short - BAN AKUMA (1st post updated)

Intro by Wes Truelson one of the finest ST players in the history of the game.
Quote Originally Posted by lftrpllr View Post
It's as simple as this: Akuma does not fit well into this game. The risk/reward with this character is so out of whack with every other character in the game. Sure, some characters can fight him, but no one can go toe to toe with him. Banning him simply keeps the game more interesting on the tournament level. He might not win every tournament, but guaranteed someone (who probably doesn't deserve it) will finish very high in the placing with him on a consistent basis.

sounds like someone else i know........

 

[Chuee]

No it doesn't.

 

[Orion*]

stuff

get at my falcon

Isnt that what you as a part of a smash community should be striving for?

yes, some people are stupid

There are many ways to deal with this post.
The easy way=flame
Hard way=reason with the troll
Best way=ignore button.

Guess which I chose?

flame me please<3

You're trying to theorycraft off of mechanical precision and not human ability which is impossible, because not even the top 1% of players never get stage spiked/always tech/never mispace. It's simply not safe to go off stage vs MK as a rule unless you're once of like 3 characters and even then you're still risking losing a stock.

you shouldnt Assume youre going to make a mistake, even if you get ***** initially practice it until you master it. everyone in this community whines everythings to hard, where in like every other fighting game the amount of timing and tech skill required for what we deem to hard to be practical (and in the case of teching game changing) is literally bare essential, not even high level play.

and, its safe if you know youre going to tech

 

[fkacyan]

Oh dude Otochun beat a good akuma player at Xmania lets not ban akuma either.

Life is short - BAN AKUMA (1st post updated)

Intro by Wes Truelson one of the finest ST players in the history of the game.
Quote Originally Posted by lftrpllr View Post
It's as simple as this: Akuma does not fit well into this game. The risk/reward with this character is so out of whack with every other character in the game. Sure, some characters can fight him, but no one can go toe to toe with him. Banning him simply keeps the game more interesting on the tournament level. He might not win every tournament, but guaranteed someone (who probably doesn't deserve it) will finish very high in the placing with him on a consistent basis.

sounds like someone else i know........

You idiot, we've been over about how you're talking about the SECOND Akuma ban, not the more commonly known one that happened several years prior to the one you keep mentioning.

 

[Orion*]

You idiot, we've been over about how you're talking about the SECOND Akuma ban, not the more commonly known one that happened several years prior to the one you keep mentioning.

but theres only one akuma O.o

 

[ElDominio]

blahblahblah (as usual)

Have you seen the pattern here? You're being put on ignore list by everyone. Try to at least be quasi-reasonable.

 

[Chuee]

I might put ElDominio on ignore hehe

 

[ElDominio]

I might put ElDominio on ignore hehe

Get to it!

If you find me annoying then so be it!!! At least I try to be reasonable with some!

 

[adumbrodeus]

but theres only one akuma O.o

...

No, there are more iterations of Akuma then I can count.


There's Super Turbo (the one which most people reference to, broken as hell) HD Remix (the "second akuma ban" people are talking about), Capcom vs. SNK 2, SF 4, SF 3, and probably more other games then I know or care to name. And that's not even counting variations within the same game (Akuma vs. Shin Akuma).


There's FAR more then one Akuma.

 

[Orion*]

Have you seen the pattern here? You're being put on ignore list by everyone. Try to at least be quasi-reasonable.

everyone in your life maybe. i only know of a random person in midwest that doesnt attend tournaments and a sonic main. yeah i care LOL.

I might put ElDominio on ignore hehe

this sounds like a plan

 

[ElDominio]

everyone in your life maybe. i only know of a random person in midwest that doesnt attend tournaments and a sonic main. yeah i care LOL.



this sounds like a plan

2 Sonic mains

 

[Orion*]

2 Sonic mains

toobad sonic is awful.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

His other forms of stalling do not apply to the SBR definition of stalling. We HAVE to establish a rule to enforce the no-stalling rule BEFORE we do anything else in this debate.

Or we could take other solutions to the problem.

The other forms don't apply and are beatable, right now I am not talking about those, though. The MK specific LGL would be to prevent his unbeatable stalling (which is already against the rulse), not specifically for any other purpose. I have trouble believing that he'd be able to do DMGs style of hardcore planking for a very long span of time with a 20 ledge grab limit (MK specific, applicable only to time out).

Before we even bother talking about his other various ways to time you out, I'd really like to first establish that we NEED an LGL solely because of his stalling that fits the SBR definition.

Do you agree with an LGL?

The fact we have to cater to MK, so he doesn't break the game in half is showing that he is a problem in himself.

A LGL would restrict his ability to plank, but it wouldn't stop him from working a time out if he wanted to. Unless you set it incredibly low like you did which has problems with characters taking advantage of this when he place restrictions on him like this.

I'd rather ban a character than force multiple rules to prevent him from going all out.

@other people: Please don't bother responding to these posts mentioning anything at all about scrooging or his beatable planking. The sole purpose of the posts I'm making right now are to establish that we need an LGL before we move on to anything else.

IF YOU DO MENTION SCROOGING or any other form of MK stalling that doesn't apply to the SBR definition of stalling (IE only talk about DMGs hardcore stalling and whether or not it justifies the use of an LGL), I will not reply as that is not at all what I am focusing on right now.

Or we could ban him and not cluster out rule-set to cater to MK.

 

[Orion*]

A LGL would restrict his ability to plank, but it wouldn't stop him from working a time out if he wanted to. Unless you set it incredibly low like you did which has problems with characters taking advantage of this when he place restrictions on him like this.

name a tournament viable way other than scrooging or planking for mk to time someone out