Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[JPOBS]

I know what the issue is with people and not being able to read colored text. You guys are all noobs who don't use Vibrant. I suggest switching.

i use Vibrant. color'd text is still bad.

 

[Kimimaru]

I think one way that people could view the tier list, which I seldom here about, is looking at their weaknesses first. Everyone is quick to say Fox is super fast, lasers allow him to spike, his combos are really good, U-smash and U-throw -> U-air are easy, etc. . . less often is how easy it is to combo him pointed out.

How strong do people think the tier list is related to characters' weaknesses versus characters' strengths?

You bring up a good point here. I did notice that people tend to ignore the weaknesses of the character that supposedly has the upper hand in a matchup (Ex. Fox in a Peach vs. Fox discussion).

 

[Purpletuce]

Especially when you're losing. . Ex: When I'm losing to Falco, I bring up how OP his D-air is or his F-smash, or all of his moves. . . I never bring up how I can get really easy B-air D-smash kills if they DI bad, or how my U-tilt can kill him at 0% if he loses his jump and I grab the ledge. . .

People love to complain

 

[~Twitch~]

purpletuce reminds me of kevin when he was a scrub...

how does it feel to know you're going to get really good but only if you sell your soul to a top tier first?

 

[odinNJ]

>selling self to top tier
>using top tiers
I personally dont like when people say. hey bro you should use a top tier, if your XYZ low tier is this good now, imagine a wonderful world where you could stand playing a top tier long enough to get that good with them and destroy low tier XYZ.

Stop telling people to play high tiers, its as if you want to make the person think they dont like their character, just because its bad. let people main whoever they want

 

[Purpletuce]

Kevin as in PP? I'd be down, but I have no interest in playing top tier and selling my soul until I can't improve with Yoshi any more. . .

 

[DerfMidWest]

teehee now purpletuce reminds me of myself when I was a Pichu main.
except smarter and less obnoxious .-.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

I think Marth and Captain Falcon would be the only high-tier characters I'd be down to get good as.

Fox gets comboed and chaingrabbed too easily due to his high fall speed, Falco has the same problem to an even more severe extent (since he falls faster than Fox and, well, everyone else, actually) and is too easy to gimp, due to his stubby up-B, Jigglypuff just plain dies too fast and is a really risky character to play as in general, Sheik is boring, Peach is nyeh, Ice Climbers are too complicated, Dr. Mario and Ganondorf are cool, and Kirby sucks (see what I did there?).

Yes, I realize that Falcon is easy to combo. Even Bowser can chaingrab him.

And yes, I fully realize that Bowser is terrible. But it's not like I'm going to be bringing him to any tournaments anytime soon.

 

[DerfMidWest]

[nvm didn't read post all the way through]

lol if you'd talked to me about a year ago, I never would have thought that I would have been an IC main...
how the **** did I even start using this character <_<

 

[Purpletuce]

Apparently I'm dumb and obnoxious :\

Also, E-102 Gamma, how do you figure you wouldn't like those characters? Didn't you say you've never played competitively? If that were true, you can't really understand the feel of a character in competitive use, and your current opinions are based entirely on other people's opinions of the character. So, you'd only be down to get good as other people's opinions of Marth and Falcon in high tier. . .

You should try competitive smash, it is fun.

 

[Kink-Link5]

[nvm didn't read post all the way through]

lol if you'd talked to me about a year ago, I never would have thought that I would have been an IC main...
how the **** did I even start using this character <_<

ICs are the one true path to immortality.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Also, E-102 Gamma, how do you figure you wouldn't like those characters? Didn't you say you've never played competitively? If that were true, you can't really understand the feel of a character in competitive use, and your current opinions are based entirely on other people's opinions of the character. So, you'd only be down to get good as other people's opinions of Marth and Falcon in high tier. . .

Actually, my opinions on the various characters are based on what I've seen of those characters in videos of pro smashers, and on my own personal experience while playing as them. I have chaingrabbed Falcos and FSmashed Puffs from 60% damage straight to oblivion. I've played as Peach and done rather poor job at it, being rather unsure as to how to approach a campy Marth. Of course, this could be remedied if I put some time into the character to learn how it (or in this case, she) works, but do I want to? Not really.

I feel like I'd never be very distinguished as any of the higher-tier characters. I'd be just another Fox, or a pretty good Sheik, etc. Nothing too extraordinary. Playing as Bowser in a casual environment works, because I can still beat people as him (and I do).

I already have Marth and Luigi as secondaries, by the way.

You should try competitive smash, it is fun.

I fully intend to go to a smashfest or something someday. Can't see myself going to anything but the smallest of small-time tournaments until I get really good as a good character (or freaking amazing as Bowser).

 

[DerfMidWest]

Ha, for the longest time i called ICs "gay" and johned about how it was just grab->win

But since I picked them up, its changed my perspective of the game comepletely.
I no longer really look at things as "gay," and i realize that I never should have in the first place. And my entire outlook on how the game should be approached is... A lot different.

Tl;dr, don't judge a character by what you've seen or how you think you want to play, actually give them a legitimate shot, you may end up falling in love with a character you never thought that you would (i.e. ICs)

The y are in fact, the true path to divinity, imortality, and understanding, and so on.

 

[Purpletuce]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/340535089298820/

Oregon group for smash, there is a tournament this Saturday. . .

Although I really don't think you understand. . .

If you think your Bowser is good based on casual play expect shock when you go competitive. There was a Fox that boasted to have tech skill comparable to Silent Wolf, and could consistently waveshine characters across the stage, etc. He want to Northwest Manifest and he thought he would wreck. . . and never won a single match.

You will not get good until you start going to smashfests and tournaments.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Honestly, I don't think there's a character in the game that I couldn't pick up if I wanted to (except maybe Yoshi. Dat parry that requires ridiculous timing...). It's just that I'm not interested in getting good as most of them.

I don't do Facebook, Purpletuce. It wants to eat my soul.

If you think your Bowser is good based on casual play expect shock when you go competitive.

I never said my Bowser was good. I said I was good enough as him to beat casual players, which obviously isn't saying much.

You will not get good until you start going to smashfests and tournaments.

IMO, one gets good at Melee by doing a well-balanced combination of the following:

1) Research the heck out of everything so that one knows what to do and when to do it in every situation. Smashboards and YouTube go hand-in-hand for this.

And waaay more importantly,

2) Play Melee a whole freaking lot with a lot of other people who are at least as good as you are, or preferably better.

Smashfests and tournaments are almost unarguably the best way to get this kind of practice in.

Of course, keeping the drive to play this game and not giving up because everyone always beats you are important as well. You're not going to get anywhere if you don't try.

So yes, I realize that attending smashfests is important if I want to get good at this game.

 

[V3ctorMan]

unknown522 mains Yoshi, he told me he would at apex

Spoiler

If I beat his fox with yoshi.. WHICH I DID!!! JK JK JK XD

<3 ryan



show me your powers

NOTE: you did tell me you'd play yoshi though.. ;_;

 

[Purpletuce]

I used to be anti-Facebook. . . then college happened.

IMO a good player needs to:

Understand the game very deeply

Understand his character veryy deeply

Be able to read and use mindgames(you've never gotten to try this if you have't played competitively)

Combo well coupled with making good judgement calls(risk/reward, that stuff)

Good spacing, stage control, zoning, (other things like this, I want to call them soft elements of the game, understanding the game past the superficial areas, you also need to play competitive for this.)

Tons of experience

Be able to weigh the aforementioned and focus on them accordingly in the game.

Spoiler

Play Falco

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Be able to read and use mindgames(you've never gotten to try this if you have't played competitively)

Dude, I play as Bowser. A Bowser player who reacts to what his opponent does in real-time only is going to fail miserably. Getting inside one's opponent's head is pretty much necessary, and is something that I practice while playing against people.

 

[Purpletuce]

It is different against competitive players, because they know their options, how to DI, etc.

Example: In casual play you can shield grab Fox, in competitive you will get shined.

Every single thing you do will change, such as when your opponent hits the ground, attacking where he lands (always) will be noticed by your opponent, and that habit (that you inevitably develop against CPU and friends) will make it so you lose a combo every time you get a knockdown.

Spoiler

Oregon needs new players in the scene, and I would love to have another low tier!

 

[Vudujin]

The key to this game is ****.

You have to be mercilessly slaughtered and either react by quitting or being so amazed that inspiration forces you to one day perform the same demoralizing experience on some other unsuspecting novice.

Then you just work your way up from there.

 

[Divinokage]

The joys of being able to handle 99% of smashers is pretty awesome indeed.

 

[cannedbread]

salt is empowering.

 

[Twinkles]

It makes any meal taste good.

 

[Purpletuce]

Since I started playing competitive, I've had four chances to play casual players. . .

Running cast on noobs makes anyone feel good

 

[The Star King]

nope it's boring as hell, maybe I'll actually play compeititive people in this game one day

 

[DerfMidWest]

I like wrecking scrubs at this game.
it makes me feel like I'm good.
because I lose to everybody else.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I like wrecking scrubs at this game.
it makes me feel like I'm good.
because I lose to everybody else.

It's almost baffling how the concept of avoiding Pikachu's broken down B is impossible to them. You feel like a god for acknowledging the existence of tilts.

 

[Boat Mode]

After the first match noobs are boring.

Unless you're hustling them.

 

[Divinokage]

I've often felt like it's an actual mental block.

You feel good ****** noobs ---> So you don't need to become any better anymore. It's an actual psychological pattern that happens with a lot of people I've seen. It's a bit similar to like just because you went at the gym, you feel adequate enough just being there to give yourself an excuse that you trained enough for today. When the true question you have to ask yourself is.. is that really the best you could've done today?

It's that type of mediocrity that installs itself within people thinking it's good enough when in reality to push forward a champion, you really have to go the extra distance and disassemble yourself and then rebuild yourself.. and keep trying until you become really great at something.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Having a player base helps too, Kage.

 

[Divinokage]

Well then if you are truly motivated, travel 3-4 hours to play those good players!

 

[Purpletuce]

Or. . . you can wreck noobs AND try to get better in the competitive scene. I do think what Kage said should be noted, though. Complacency is the enemy of success.

 

[Divinokage]

Or. . . you can wreck noobs AND try to get better in the competitive scene. I do think what Kage said should be noted, though. Complacency is the enemy of success.

Definitely, that's exactly my point. And yes you can definitely get much much better just by beating lower skilled players over and over.. just find ways to own them differently or more effectively. It's in this way that you can experiment situations a lot easier since they'll always be pressured and you'll be able to do what you want to them.

Edit: Someone actually understood me! Legendary Purpletuce! Unbelievable! lol. You may just have the proper spirit to become someone great!

 

[Purpletuce]

Yay! I try to understand most people, but it is hard sometimes. Note: I travel an hour to an hour and a half (this summer) to play the next good smashers, which I go for weekly. I'm down to get great. . . Maybe I'll be on par with the great Kage the Warrior.

 

[The Star King]

Oh god, you've been associated with Kage. Run and save your reputation while you can

Also wrecking noobs is only fun if there isn't any competitive game you're good at and you normally lose to everyone. If you're top at anything it's boring

 

[E-102 Gamma]

For clarity, I wouldn't call myself a casual player, because when I hear the term "casual player," I think of someone who doesn't take Melee seriously, never improves, and always plays 4-person free-for-all with items turned up to their maximum spawn rate.

I wouldn't exactly call myself a competitive player either, because I've never entered any kind of tournament or competition or otherwise played Melee with any amount of money on the line. However, I do take Melee seriously, want to improve, play to win, and strongly prefer 1v1 or 2v2 (with team attack on) to 4-for-all (though I often don't have any other choice besides not playing at all).

I always play with 4 stocks and no items, per tournament standard (and recently, a friend of mine has started setting an 8-minute time limit, though our matches almost never go on for that long). Most of the people I play with don't own Melee but still play it whenever they get a chance, and at least one of them does seem to be very driven to improve. I play my best and look for areas that I can improve my metagame in.

For the record, the reason I play as Bowser is because I once lost to a friend of mine whom I considered (and still consider) myself to be a much better player than while randomly playing as him. Hopefully, this says something about my character.

And yes you can definitely get much much better just by beating lower skilled players over and over.. just find ways to own them differently or more effectively. It's in this way that you can experiment situations a lot easier since they'll always be pressured and you'll be able to do what you want to them.

I once heard someone say something along the lines of, "When playing against better players than yourself, play to win. When playing against players worse than yourself, play to learn." Sounds like a good summary of what you're saying. Seems to me, though, that playing against people of greater skill levels than one's own would be faster, provided one doesn't flat-out give up.

Anywho, we have strayed from the topic of this thread. So back on topic: The D tier is the most stylish tier because Luigi is in it.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Your definition of casual is super weird, Gamma. Casual players are anyone who plays this game outside of a competitive environment. Cactuar is a casual player as well as a competitive player. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[unknown522]

unknown522 mains Yoshi, he told me he would at apex

Spoiler

If I beat his fox with yoshi.. WHICH I DID!!! JK JK JK XD

<3 ryan



show me your powers

NOTE: you did tell me you'd play yoshi though.. ;_;

oh yeah, I did. I haven't used him in tourney at all

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Your definition of casual is super weird, Gamma.

I didn't really define it so much as I stereotyped it.

 

[Divinokage]

I once heard someone say something along the lines of, "When playing against better players than yourself, play to win. When playing against players worse than yourself, play to learn." Sounds like a good summary of what you're saying. Seems to me, though, that playing against people of greater skill levels than one's own would be faster, provided one doesn't flat-out give up.

Anywho, we have strayed from the topic of this thread. So back on topic: The D tier is the most stylish tier because Luigi is in it.

Well you would have to play to learn anyhow because if you do the same stuff against better players they will notice your patterns and will abuse your weaknesses so in this sense you'd have to fix yourself a lot of times before your opponent wont be able to exploit you as much. And ya it's always good to play better players too, if your level isn't top level yet then being creative is a lot harder I find because you won't be able to see all the optimal options and also you won't be able to execute those options at the max possible speed either. I guess it takes a lot of experience before being able to do that.