Official Marths June Tier Placement Discussion - Updated 4/9/09!

[Rawnie]

My prediction

3rd- Falco
4th- D3/Diddy
5th- D3/Diddy
6th- Marth/Wario
7th- Marth/Wario
8th- G&W

 

[Odigo]

I strongly feel that Marth is a great character in this game: he's fairly fast and fairly strong. He's pretty balanced and has an answer to any situation he's put in. Even without AT's, I feel Marth should be higher than he is -- 3rd or 4th.

Unfortunately, I also feel that not enough people know how to use Marth properly and well and thus his tournament results are kind of crappy; that's why I think he'll either stay in his current position or drop a spot or two.

Marth has great potential when played correctly; unfortunately, not enough people play him correctly to have a big impact. His potential will keep him high but his placings will keep him around where he is. =(

 

[Pierce7d]

You guys are actually missing the lovely thing that's happening here.

Marth's three worst match-ups are Snake, MK, D3. Before, these were the top three characters in the game. Marth was lower on the tier list.

Then, certain characters moved up. Marth had an advantage on these characters, so he moved up.

Now, outta nowhere, Wario, Diddy, Olimar, and ZSS are all moving up. Marth wins against all of these characters, as well as Falco and G&W. In fact, Marth has a better match-up against every single character I listed in this paragraph than MK does. What does this mean? Marth will either maintain, or move up.

We might not have changed, but the Metagame around us changed, and now Wario and Diddy can help take out MK. Falco, Olimar, Diddy, and ZSS can help take down Snake. Marth's will have easier brackets.

For instance, I'm going to start placing better, because ADHD popped up in my region out of nowhere. Now, instead of fighting that MK or Snake that I would have a disadvantage against, I get to fight Diddy and advance another round. On top of this, Marth already has the tools to fight MK, and goes almost even with him with perfect play.

In today's Metagame, Marth is even more valuable than ever before. Sometimes, fighting 2 or 3 MKs consecutively could tire a Marth out, having to adjust to different styles, and playing perfectly every round. Now, with new characters entering the fray, and Marth having so many positive match-ups, Marth will be a powerful tool.

 

[Punishment Divine]

You guys are actually missing the lovely thing that's happening here.

Marth's three worst match-ups are Snake, MK, D3. Before, these were the top three characters in the game. Marth was lower on the tier list.

Then, certain characters moved up. Marth had an advantage on these characters, so he moved up.

Now, outta nowhere, Wario, Diddy, Olimar, and ZSS are all moving up. Marth wins against all of these characters, as well as Falco and G&W. In fact, Marth has a better match-up against every single character I listed in this paragraph than MK does. What does this mean? Marth will either maintain, or move up.

We might not have changed, but the Metagame around us changed, and now Wario and Diddy can help take out MK. Falco, Olimar, Diddy, and ZSS can help take down Snake. Marth's will have easier brackets.

For instance, I'm going to start placing better, because ADHD popped up in my region out of nowhere. Now, instead of fighting that MK or Snake that I would have a disadvantage against, I get to fight Diddy and advance another round. On top of this, Marth already has the tools to fight MK, and goes almost even with him with perfect play.

In today's Metagame, Marth is even more valuable than ever before. Sometimes, fighting 2 or 3 MKs consecutively could tire a Marth out, having to adjust to different styles, and playing perfectly every round. Now, with new characters entering the fray, and Marth having so many positive match-ups, Marth will be a powerful tool.

Where the **** you been?!

Also, agreed

 

[J4pu]

You guys are actually missing the lovely thing that's happening here.

Marth's three worst match-ups are Snake, MK, D3. Before, these were the top three characters in the game. Marth was lower on the tier list.

Then, certain characters moved up. Marth had an advantage on these characters, so he moved up.

Now, outta nowhere, Wario, Diddy, Olimar, and ZSS are all moving up. Marth wins against all of these characters, as well as Falco and G&W. In fact, Marth has a better match-up against every single character I listed in this paragraph than MK does. What does this mean? Marth will either maintain, or move up.

We might not have changed, but the Metagame around us changed, and now Wario and Diddy can help take out MK. Falco, Olimar, Diddy, and ZSS can help take down Snake. Marth's will have easier brackets.

For instance, I'm going to start placing better, because ADHD popped up in my region out of nowhere. Now, instead of fighting that MK or Snake that I would have a disadvantage against, I get to fight Diddy and advance another round. On top of this, Marth already has the tools to fight MK, and goes almost even with him with perfect play.

In today's Metagame, Marth is even more valuable than ever before. Sometimes, fighting 2 or 3 MKs consecutively could tire a Marth out, having to adjust to different styles, and playing perfectly every round. Now, with new characters entering the fray, and Marth having so many positive match-ups, Marth will be a powerful tool.

MK and snake are still 1 and 2, DDD didnt move down that far.
don't get over-excited now

 

[Browny]

Pierce7d you say that other players will counterpick diddy/wario/olimar etc to deal with marths bad matchups in tournaments, giving him an easier ride into the finals. But whats stopping those same people CP'ing MK or DDD when they come up against marth as well? It works both ways :/

 

[Punishment Divine]

Pierce7d you say that other players will counterpick diddy/wario/olimar etc to deal with marths bad matchups in tournaments, giving him an easier ride into the finals. But whats stopping those same people CP'ing MK or DDD when they come up against marth as well? It works both ways :/

The idea is that there will be less MK's and Snakes to worry about as more of Marth's better matchups rise higher on the tier list, the ones who can take out those characters. It's not really a counterpick issue as it is a main taking out main issue.

Plus I'm finding it easier to deal with DDD these days. I lost to Basic Sausage's DDD like 2 weeks ago and realized the matchup isn't that hard, you just have to be on the same level as the DDD. However, I suck and Leo is prob the best D3 in NY so lolz

 

[ZHMT]

Pierce wins this thread, that is all.

@Punishment Devine...

Vs D3, fthrow x3 to fsmash, fair the D3 offstage and keep him off. Doing this successfully outweighs the chaingrab D3 has in the first place.

Its too good.

 

[Pierce7d]

MK and snake are still 1 and 2, DDD didnt move down that far.
don't get over-excited now

Uh, so? Marth has always been high tier. Things are getting easier.

Pierce7d you say that other players will counterpick diddy/wario/olimar etc to deal with marths bad matchups in tournaments, giving him an easier ride into the finals. But whats stopping those same people CP'ing MK or DDD when they come up against marth as well? It works both ways :/

rofl. Marth is an extremely flexible and powerful character. If you don't main those character, decent Marth's are probably not going to lose to you. Diddy mains have been sprouting up like nobodies business. Wario is becoming all the rage. People are dropping top tiers because they are getting bored. I'm not saying it's a good idea for them to drop MK/Snake for Wario/Diddy, but it's happening, no doubt.

Pierce wins this thread, that is all.

@Punishment Devine...

Vs D3, fthrow x3 to fsmash, fair the D3 offstage and keep him off. Doing this successfully outweighs the chaingrab D3 has in the first place.

Its too good.

lol @ over-simplifying my vs. D3 strats. Doing well I presume?

 

[Shaya]

Snake gets ***** from 0% to the edge with fthrow, fthrow, downwards dancing blade to spamming dtilts.

It's easily 2/3rds of Snake's stock if he loses his jump to the dtilt; and Marth can shuttle loop Snake too for extra lulz.

Just saying, now that I think about it... Marth's grab game is ****, and is probably one of the most developing areas of our game at the moment. If its highlighted in tier discussion it's definitely a massive positive.

 

[BBoyindo]

Snake gets ***** from 0% to the edge with fthrow, fthrow, downwards dancing blade to spamming dtilts.

It's easily 2/3rds of Snake's stock if he loses his jump to the dtilt; and Marth can shuttle loop Snake too for extra lulz.

Just saying, now that I think about it... Marth's grab game is ****, and is probably one of the most developing areas of our game at the moment. If its highlighted in tier discussion it's definitely a massive positive.

I get so much % up with throws lately, and even KO's. Especially against snake.

 

[ZHMT]

lol @ over-simplifying my vs. D3 strats. Doing well I presume?

It makes the matchup like 5 times easier lol. Its too good.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Marth will def. being to rise on the tier list

Just start looking at the tourny results.

 

[ChaosKnight]

what kadaj said

 

[lolgrec]

its really early to start discussing topics for something happening in June o_O, but based just on what pierce said, marth will be rising, perhaps third?

 

[OmegaXF]

Pierce wins this thread, that is all.

@Punishment Devine...

Vs D3, fthrow x3 to fsmash, fair the D3 offstage and keep him off. Doing this successfully outweighs the chaingrab D3 has in the first place.

Its too good.

That third grab isn't guaranteed from my POV. I know the first two are the third one is kinda iffy...

 

[ADMJP]

i always thought tier lists were relative to the proficiency-to-success ratio of the char?

There are many people picking up Wario/Diddy, but how many of them are actually good enough to take out seasoned Mks/Snakes?

Also, i dont see how GnW is gonna fall that far when there are still GnW's that place consistently well in their region, but its rare for me to see a marth get top 5.

Marth can be quite annoying in the right hands, but the same can be said about any char in the top half of list.
I dont think GnW can fall below Marth just yet, but maybe in the future.
Falco down, Wario up, Diddy up. D3 im not sure, havent seen much from him lately.

Based on that, and since Falco wont fall below GnW or Marth, Marth is prolly moving down some by default.

 

[Silent Beast]

Marth can shuttle loop Snake

I know what you mean, but imagine if Marth could glide with his cape.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Well, even though I don't really care where Marth ends up on the next tier list because I'll still main him anyways, I'll contribute my 2 cents. I think of it this way: MK isn't going anywhere, quite obviously. Snake has a very small chance of switching with falco from the way I see it, and D3 will probably stay the same. I can see G&W moving down on the list for a few reasons, and Diddy may move above Marth, but it's a 50/50 chance on that one I think. Wario may move up, but not too much if he does. The list is pretty accurate in terms of what characters people like to play and how they place with them. I don't think there will be many changes to the list in June, but Marth is good against a few of the killers in the higher tiers such as Diddy, Wario, G&W and Falco. I think he'll stay the same or move up a spot or so.

 

[Darxmarth23]

You guys are actually missing the lovely thing that's happening here.

Marth's three worst match-ups are Snake, MK, D3. Before, these were the top three characters in the game. Marth was lower on the tier list.

Then, certain characters moved up. Marth had an advantage on these characters, so he moved up.

Now, outta nowhere, Wario, Diddy, Olimar, and ZSS are all moving up. Marth wins against all of these characters, as well as Falco and G&W. In fact, Marth has a better match-up against every single character I listed in this paragraph than MK does. What does this mean? Marth will either maintain, or move up.

We might not have changed, but the Metagame around us changed, and now Wario and Diddy can help take out MK. Falco, Olimar, Diddy, and ZSS can help take down Snake. Marth's will have easier brackets.

For instance, I'm going to start placing better, because ADHD popped up in my region out of nowhere. Now, instead of fighting that MK or Snake that I would have a disadvantage against, I get to fight Diddy and advance another round. On top of this, Marth already has the tools to fight MK, and goes almost even with him with perfect play.

In today's Metagame, Marth is even more valuable than ever before. Sometimes, fighting 2 or 3 MKs consecutively could tire a Marth out, having to adjust to different styles, and playing perfectly every round. Now, with new characters entering the fray, and Marth having so many positive match-ups, Marth will be a powerful tool.

You, my friend, have just won this thread with pure logic.

But I do think that if the characters that are rising have changed their meta game for the better, they might end up surpassing us few lists later, because our match ups might change, and realistic play comes into play.

I think our bump up in the tier placement might only be temporary.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

You guys are actually missing the lovely thing that's happening here.

Marth's three worst match-ups are Snake, MK, D3. Before, these were the top three characters in the game. Marth was lower on the tier list.

Then, certain characters moved up. Marth had an advantage on these characters, so he moved up.

Now, outta nowhere, Wario, Diddy, Olimar, and ZSS are all moving up. Marth wins against all of these characters, as well as Falco and G&W. In fact, Marth has a better match-up against every single character I listed in this paragraph than MK does. What does this mean? Marth will either maintain, or move up.

We might not have changed, but the Metagame around us changed, and now Wario and Diddy can help take out MK. Falco, Olimar, Diddy, and ZSS can help take down Snake. Marth's will have easier brackets.

For instance, I'm going to start placing better, because ADHD popped up in my region out of nowhere. Now, instead of fighting that MK or Snake that I would have a disadvantage against, I get to fight Diddy and advance another round. On top of this, Marth already has the tools to fight MK, and goes almost even with him with perfect play.

In today's Metagame, Marth is even more valuable than ever before. Sometimes, fighting 2 or 3 MKs consecutively could tire a Marth out, having to adjust to different styles, and playing perfectly every round. Now, with new characters entering the fray, and Marth having so many positive match-ups, Marth will be a powerful tool.

I don't know if I clearly stated it before, but this is virtually the_exact_same thing that I'm thinking. It makes perfect sense that we go higher due to our matchups with some of the higher tier matchups, and the new characters that are coming in are all at a disadvantage when playing Marth as well. The only characters that need to be worked on are as above stated, D3, Snake, and MK, which are all IMO pretty close matchups for the most part. I'm pretty confident when I say that we won't go anywhere at all or we'll move up. As long as D3, MK, and snake are above us, I don't understand how we could go down any more.

 

[phi1ny3]

You guys are actually missing the lovely thing that's happening here.

Marth's three worst match-ups are Snake, MK, D3. Before, these were the top three characters in the game. Marth was lower on the tier list.

Then, certain characters moved up. Marth had an advantage on these characters, so he moved up.

Now, outta nowhere, Wario, Diddy, Olimar, and ZSS are all moving up. Marth wins against all of these characters, as well as Falco and G&W. In fact, Marth has a better match-up against every single character I listed in this paragraph than MK does. What does this mean? Marth will either maintain, or move up.

We might not have changed, but the Metagame around us changed, and now Wario and Diddy can help take out MK. Falco, Olimar, Diddy, and ZSS can help take down Snake. Marth's will have easier brackets.

For instance, I'm going to start placing better, because ADHD popped up in my region out of nowhere. Now, instead of fighting that MK or Snake that I would have a disadvantage against, I get to fight Diddy and advance another round. On top of this, Marth already has the tools to fight MK, and goes almost even with him with perfect play.

In today's Metagame, Marth is even more valuable than ever before. Sometimes, fighting 2 or 3 MKs consecutively could tire a Marth out, having to adjust to different styles, and playing perfectly every round. Now, with new characters entering the fray, and Marth having so many positive match-ups, Marth will be a powerful tool.

I blame Azen and dmg for the recent diddy and wario inspiration factor. Yeah, I see marth going up, and he still has room, especially with some of the more recent things, on top of D3 and G&W becoming more readable and people are getting more accustomed and better acquainted with these matchups.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

I blame Azen and dmg for the recent diddy and wario inspiration factor. Yeah, I see marth going up, and he still has room, especially with some of the more recent things, on top of D3 and G&W becoming more readable and people are getting more accustomed and better acquainted with these matchups.

I actually think it was Ninjalink that inspired the wave of Diddy mains, after he beat M2K at the East Coast Circuit Regional Event 4. But other than that, I see your point.

 

[Pr0phetic]

What Pierce has said is definitely true. A lot of Olimar and Diidy mains are everywhere. This is a golden opportunity, since we win most of these matches and we're improving Marth's grab game all at the same time. Ah marvelous, I feel like beating some *** right now.

 

[ChaosKnight]

but instead of doing that lets all listen to music and celebrate

 

[cman]

iMarth*

Way to suck at life.

 

[ChaosKnight]

hey i just found the marth pic

 

[lolgrec]

lawlz awesome job CK way to bring celebration into this thread where'd you find that or did you make it? i can see some bit of editing

 

[BacklashMarth]

lawlz awesome job CK way to bring celebration into this thread where'd you find that or did you make it? i can see some bit of editing

I will have that edited by the end of today and posted as my wallpaper (using my 1337 paynt sk1llz).

P.S. Who is that guy on the left stealing marth's thunder?

 

[Ussi]

Marth is gonna Rise. Pikachu has discovered new CGs on a various amount of characters (Pikachu is a LOL counter to Falco and Wolf now, MK, DDD, Snake, all get CG).. and Marth is the best counter to pikachu.

 

[takeurlife2]

marth will move down, if not this tier list then one in the near future. called it.

there are far more snakes and MKs than there are olimars, falcos, etc.

there are tons of diddys, but even they do pretty well against marf.

 

[BacklashMarth]

marth will move down, if not this tier list then one in the near future. called it.

there are far more snakes and MKs than there are olimars, falcos, etc.

there are tons of diddys, but even they do pretty well against marf.

uh, dont we have the advantage in the vs diddy matchup? iono the exact ratio by heart but im pretty sure w/e it is it hardly constitutes "pretty well" (unless its in comparison to how much marth ***** other characters). either that or i misunderstood what you were trying to say.

 

[illinialex24]

uh, dont we have the advantage in the vs diddy matchup? iono the exact ratio by heart but im pretty sure w/e it is it hardly constitutes "pretty well" (unless its in comparison to how much marth ***** other characters). either that or i misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Its actually worse than Jigglypuff's matchup against Diddy Kong, I am fairly sure it is neutral or like 55-45 Marth.

 

[takeurlife2]

uh, dont we have the advantage in the vs diddy matchup? iono the exact ratio by heart but im pretty sure w/e it is it hardly constitutes "pretty well" (unless its in comparison to how much marth ***** other characters). either that or i misunderstood what you were trying to say.

the advantage is tiny, and if the diddy hides in his shield with a nanner.... dear god....

 

[Ussi]

Well, not saying Marth is gonna rise, but Falco is gonna drop like a rock with a "LOL" counter now. Maybe lower than Marth.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I predict that Marth will either stay where he is, move up, or move down.

Or be omitted from the list entirely.

 

[ChaosKnight]

the advantage is tiny, and if the diddy hides in his shield with a nanner.... dear god....

lawl you dont know how much **** marth can put on a Diddy :x

 

[BacklashMarth]

the advantage is tiny, and if the diddy hides in his shield with a nanner.... dear god....

1 banana + 1 glide toss + 1 shieldbreaker
= one diddy who will never touch the shield button again

 

[Steel]

@backlash

that won't work vs any diddy with half a brain. glide tossing isn't really effective vs him since you have little control over how far Marth slides and diddy's are waiting for it.

you can sometimes throw them back at him, but most of the time its recommended to just throw them away.

but seriously ... marth is one of the best characters vs diddy. he can really destroy his entire game

 

[BacklashMarth]

Couldnt you kill 2 birds with one stone and glide toss the banana up? It gets the naner away from diddy, sets it as YOUR item, and u get in diddy's face in an instant. Sure they may expect you to glide toss shieldbreak them, but that is fixed by simple mixups (grab/dtilt them or something, you are in their face after all). Why not condition diddy to thinking u will gilde toss SB them? I can't see myself being punished for glidetoss SB because when u initiate the SB marth pulls back a bit and should be just outside of diddys grab range (unless he PS'ed the banana with insane reaction time and went for a dash grab) .