~~Official Link Metagame Discussion~~

[KirinBlaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAwhCLldVLM

Now you'll understand lol

Oh wow, while to some it may seem miniscule I'd say this is pretty helpful. I too didn't think he could use it effeictivly/at all thanks to his wait (That and because he's my second main. xD). Boy was I wrong. I'll have to try it out. Nice job. :D

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

This is perfect, I need some help testing wavebounce recovery. I´ve found out how to wavebounce forward but Im not skilled enough to make often enough to test it well(done the wavebounce recovery like 5-10 in total). The button input is like this : When hit off stage DI properly and airdodge, at the ending frames of your airdodge DI AWAY from stage when airdodge has finished quickly move control stick towards stage and c-stick away from stage (together with hitting special attack button if you as me dont want to b-sticky).

I also think jab lock section should be divided in the diffrent jab lock set ups, one for bomb footstool one for ehm what else is there(except rang) cause there are diffrent uses for all of them.

And one more thing, has anyone but me given bombslide a chance, I use the fthrow a lot for aproaching. you throw and can very fast afterwards make other moves. Fsmash, dsmash, utilt and jab is to prefer.
I use Uthrow for juggling and edgeguarding. its perfect against spammers(pit, wolf etc especially against wolf IMO). you aproach with the bomb as a sheild and can then fsmash them in their face. I need someone to play against me so I can show how WONDERFUL bombslide is.

 

[ShieryuSilvr]

Hmm, Link's metagame. . .let me see. . .

run away, zair, space, spam, DI, momentum cancel, pull bomb, throw rang, recover, jab, roll, d-smash, dair, cp norfair. . .repeat.


do everything in that order and you'll have Link's metagame down like the back of your hand xD. =P

Lol, Deva is the only Link player that owns on norfair <.<
Also, you forgot SH-bomb throw-arrow cancel

 

[sasook]

And one more thing, has anyone but me given bombslide a chance, I use the fthrow a lot for aproaching. you throw and can very fast afterwards make other moves. Fsmash, dsmash, utilt and jab is to prefer.
I use Uthrow for juggling and edgeguarding. its perfect against spammers(pit, wolf etc especially against wolf IMO). you aproach with the bomb as a sheild and can then fsmash them in their face. I need someone to play against me so I can show how WONDERFUL bombslide is.

I bombslide all the time dude, it's part of my main game.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Are you talking about how the GB catches your opponent, or the hit stun effect of it?

 

[Onomanic]

I never bombslide ever. Just for a taunt but thats it. I can't find a use for it.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Hey hey hey. I h4z an idea for something new. Not amazing, but possibly a bit useful/practical.

I don't know how many of you know or don't know this, but if you do your UpB, and hold the control stick down during the attack, it will stop you from snapping to the ledge during the attack until it's done. In fact, it basically turns his UpB into his old Melee UpB, just with less hieght. No ledge snap = those sword swipes clearing the ledge for you before you get on the ledge/try to get on stage. As long as you have enough hieght to have reached the ledge with UpB in the first place, you should be able to do this.

 

[sasook]

Hey hey hey. I h4z an idea for something new. Not amazing, but possibly a bit useful/practical.

I don't know how many of you know or don't know this, but if you do your UpB, and hold the control stick down during the attack, it will stop you from snapping to the ledge during the attack until it's done. In fact, it basically turns his UpB into his old Melee UpB, just with less hieght. No ledge snap = those sword swipes clearing the ledge for you before you get on the ledge/try to get on stage. As long as you have enough hieght to have reached the ledge with UpB in the first place, you should be able to do this.

I knew about this just because I do it automatically, never realized I did til just now lol. Definitely worth mentioning.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

I knew about this just because I do it automatically, never realized I did til just now lol. Definitely worth mentioning.

:D

Personally, I'm wondering what type, if any useful, mindgames could be setup with this. If they get used to you snapping or not snapping the to ledge, how would they react and how could we exploit their reaction?

*Edited for grammar phailure of verb tense. It was bothering me to read it when I was the one who typed it. xD

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

I bombslide all the time dude, it's part of my main game.

Thats awesome, can you choose which throw you can use yet or is it all random(I can choose after like warming up 15min), whats your uses? how does your opponent react?

Wheres my password?

 

[sasook]

:D

Personally, I'm wondering what type, if any useful, mindgames could be setup with this. If they get used to you snapping or not snapping the to ledge, how would they react and how could we exploit their reaction?

Eh, I don't think the opponent would pay that much attention to it. Like, when I use a bunch of AT's on an opponent, half the time they don't even know it was an AT. You can't mindgame someone if you can't make them predict something wrong.

Thats awesome, can you choose which throw you can use yet or is it all random(I can choose after like warming up 15min), whats your uses? how does your opponent react?

Normally, yes I can control them at will (no warmup needed). The only ones I can't control are whether the reverse bombslide or the reverse bombslide fake comes out (most of the time it's the reverse, seldom the fake). I don't really use the forward one as much as I would like to, I love using the reverse for retreating (they never see it coming) and I love using the upthrow one (they never see that coming either). Bombsliding is underrated, it really is.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Eh, I don't think the opponent would pay that much attention to it. Like, when I use a bunch of AT's on an opponent, half the time they don't even know it was an AT. You can't mindgame someone if you can't make them predict something wrong.

Hmm... true. I don't think it's important for them to realise it's an AT though. As long as they start thinking "Hey... I'm getting his by his UpB when I'm near the ledge", then it might be worth testing.

I'm gonna try it out against some of the sharper people I play.



As for your BombSliding, it really does impress me how much control you have with it. I can't BombSlide very consistantly. I can control the distance of my DAC at will without any warm up, but I have trouble with BombSliding; in fact, I don't think I've ever managed to do a succesful Reverse BombSlide, lol.

All I really know about BombSliding is that for a up throw I need to press Cdown and R nearly simotainiously versus for a forwards one the R is a bit after Cdown. Either way, I still have a habbit of just throwing it at my own feet, lol. I think that's because I tend to DAC from a stand still most the time, and being that you have a Bomb in hand, you don't actually do a Dash Attack, so hitting Cdown to soon makes you blow yourself up. @_@ lol

 

[Dark M]

I must say you impressed me with your bombslides in our matches lootic. Though you only used the forward one (I think) it was without doubt effective. Sets up perfectly for fsmash every time Might be different offline, dunno.

 

[sasook]

Hmm... true. I don't think it's important for them to realise it's an AT though. As long as they start thinking "Hey... I'm getting his by his UpB when I'm near the ledge", then it might be worth testing.

I'm gonna try it out against some of the sharper people I play.



As for your BombSliding, it really does impress me how much control you have with it. I can't BombSlide very consistantly. I can control the distance of my DAC at will without any warm up, but I have trouble with BombSliding; in fact, I don't think I've ever managed to do a succesful Reverse BombSlide, lol.

All I really know about BombSliding is that for a up throw I need to press Cdown and R nearly simotainiously versus for a forwards one the R is a bit after Cdown. Either way, I still have a habbit of just throwing it at my own feet, lol. I think that's because I tend to DAC from a stand still most the time, and being that you have a Bomb in hand, you don't actually do a Dash Attack, so hitting Cdown to soon makes you blow yourself up. @_@ lol

Yeah, I'd like to hear how your test goes with the Upb thing. I'm rather curious.

And for bombsliding - turn tap jump off. You'll be amazed how much easier it is. And also, I use the Z button, not R.

 

[NintenJoe]

this needs to be bumped. I haven't noticed all of the useless threads being created in the past few days. But so anyway, about Double Nair. What are the uses?

 

[4Serial]

WAVEDASHING

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5571825

What can Link do with it?
The airdodging helps his tether for sure. I'm going to request for Link's tether to hook onto any part of the stage.... He deserves it.

 

[Onomanic]

I know, 4Serial, that video was incredible. :D And that's a good idea. But hacking isn't easy. But it's hella cool XD

 

[sasook]

Hacking also wouldn't be allowed lol

As for the double purposes....gimping. Double nair near the ledge, grab the ledge, ledgehop off to bair, zair edgeguard = profit.

One of my friends did it to me (he already knew about it blu link, he didn't learn it from you).

 

[Onomanic]

Ok (about your friend) and yeah gimping is one purpose. Another is just doing damage.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Normally, yes I can control them at will (no warmup needed). The only ones I can't control are whether the reverse bombslide or the reverse bombslide fake comes out (most of the time it's the reverse, seldom the fake). I don't really use the forward one as much as I would like to, I love using the reverse for retreating (they never see it coming) and I love using the upthrow one (they never see that coming either). Bombsliding is underrated, it really is.

I have no uses for reversed ones, I never have the space to run away and when I have I often have my opponent under pressure, so I cant find the uses, fthrow do I use for approaching, together with utilt, fsamsh, dsmash or jab, all of them are so good the opponent only has one correct thing to do against them, and its diffrent for all of them so he is like screwed every time. The uthrow is even more wonderful, with that one I can make the bombs pass by the ledge insted of hitting the stage, making it perfect for onstage edgeguard against scary characters like MK. and the absolut best thing with bombslide is that you can choose to Jump cancel your throws instead for even more variation.

 

[PokemonMaster]

how do you do reverse bombslide?
I can do reg. bombslide fine, but I can't figure out how to slide/moon-walk backwards.

I tried reg. forward bombslide a couple of times in real play, but see no real purpose for it in my style.
But a backwards sliding one would be great for getting out of dash atk range from the opponent.

 

[Onomanic]

Uh check our question and answers thread please. I asked this morning and it was answered. Just look for my post on it. You'll find you answer quickly I hope.

 

[4Serial]

are you guys kidding? hacking the wii is INCREDIBLY easy and safe. All you need to do is have an SD card and a copy of Twilight Princess. There's a website for the necessary files, and once you have what you need, it only takes 30 seconds and you've got your hacked wii.
Hacks are used in a lot of competitive games, and people have already started using tripless hack for brawl tournaments.
Hacked airdodges will not become the tournament standard any time soon, but I'm sure people will hold it as a side tournament like smash64 and melee in brawl tournaments.
The airdodging system can only make brawl a better game, honestly. Airdodges as they are now is so dumb and broken. Melee's airdodging was punishable and it will allow for more true combos.
Did I mention Link's wavedash is incredibly sexy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd73w74ZWpo&feature=related
3:55

 

[Onomanic]

Lmao Link's wavedash is nice. But you didn't even get to see any of it! Well, hardly. :/ Anyway, you have a point, any tourney with the wavedash hack will probably be a side tourney. I'd enter. Why not? It's like that gap of playing Melee then Brawl. It never existed until now. :D

 

[QingXin]

Well, I guess this really isn't an AT, or anything, but just a little trick I always pull off (I'm not sure if anyone else ever does it, but I've never seen it from anyone else, so....)

I call it a T-Throw... And it's exactly what it sounds like >_>

With a bomb in hand, jump and throw it directly upward, then jump backwards. As you're jumping backwards, pull out another bomb, and as you land, throw that bomb forward. The two bombs should land almost at the same time.

What uses does this have? From a distance, it can be a nice defense against a charging foe. Also, if the second bomb hits the opponent, more than likely will the opponent get knocked right into the first bomb you threw (so it's kinda like your opponent is ricocheting off of the first bomb, I guess).

I've also noticed that players usually shield against the first bomb (completely oblivious of the fact that there is another bomb coming down at them), get out of their shield, and get blown away by the first bomb you threw.

The first bomb is thrown up, as the second bomb is thrown horizontally, to form kind of an upside down T. Sorry if it's kind of hard to imagine.

 

[NintenJoe]

...it can be a nice defense against a charging foe. Also, if the second bomb hits the opponent, more than likely will the opponent get knocked right into the first bomb you threw (so it's kinda like your opponent is ricocheting off of the first bomb, I guess).

I've also noticed that players usually shield against the first bomb (completely oblivious of the fact that there is another bomb coming down at them), get out of their shield, and get blown away by the first bomb you threw.

I like this idea, and I've used it sometimes as a defensive set-up. This is a great technique for shield pressure and mindgames. The problem is, good opponents will often see this coming and just kind of "wait it out", but thats just my opinion.

 

[QingXin]

I like this idea, and I've used it sometimes as a defensive set-up. This is a great technique for shield pressure and mindgames. The problem is, good opponents will often see this coming and just kind of "wait it out", but thats just my opinion.

Well, I usually like to follow up with a few short arrow shots and maybe a toss of the Gale Boomerang... It just keeps the opponent under a lot of pressure from being bombarded by projectiles (unless they have a reflector )

 

[NintenJoe]

Well, I usually like to follow up with a few short arrow shots and maybe a toss of the Gale Boomerang... It just keeps the opponent under a lot of pressure from being bombarded by projectiles (unless they have a reflector )

my friend mains Fox, so thats probably why I don't find this very useful. Fox is stupidly hard to projectile spam...

 

[Deva]

yeah, the new air dodge hack was awesome. Link's claw shot is god tier with it, not to mention a better recovery, but just flat our has amazing spacing with it. I'll try to upload some matches soon with it. You dont even need the wavedashing part lol, just being able to airdodge clawshot is enough for Link.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Well, I guess this really isn't an AT, or anything, but just a little trick I always pull off (I'm not sure if anyone else ever does it, but I've never seen it from anyone else, so....)

I call it a T-Throw... And it's exactly what it sounds like >_>

With a bomb in hand, jump and throw it directly upward, then jump backwards. As you're jumping backwards, pull out another bomb, and as you land, throw that bomb forward. The two bombs should land almost at the same time.

What uses does this have? From a distance, it can be a nice defense against a charging foe. Also, if the second bomb hits the opponent, more than likely will the opponent get knocked right into the first bomb you threw (so it's kinda like your opponent is ricocheting off of the first bomb, I guess).

I've also noticed that players usually shield against the first bomb (completely oblivious of the fact that there is another bomb coming down at them), get out of their shield, and get blown away by the first bomb you threw.

The first bomb is thrown up, as the second bomb is thrown horizontally, to form kind of an upside down T. Sorry if it's kind of hard to imagine.

I've done something like this for bomb juggling purposes. Upward bomb throw first and then forward bomb throw forcing the opponent into an u-smash waiting for them. But that's just one of the many ways I use to mindgame and juggle my opponent with bombs,DAC,u-smash,d-smash,u-tilt, you get the picture.

 

[Onomanic]

Here's a bit of something to ponder about.

Say you're trying to space and you dash away. "Dash away? Why dash when you can use a projectile?" But since Link is all about the mind games, mind game them. Use a reverse bomb slide away from them, surprise them, and DAC. It's a strat I thought of during school. How does it sound?

 

[Finns7]

Now if they can get a hit stun code...Truthfully though My main gripe about brawl is the CG, In melee there were cg but they took skill and you had to be able to predict DI.

 

[QingXin]

I've done something like this for bomb juggling purposes. Upward bomb throw first and then forward bomb throw forcing the opponent into an u-smash waiting for them. But that's just one of the many ways I use to mindgame and juggle my opponent with bombs,DAC,u-smash,d-smash,u-tilt, you get the picture.

Oh wow, someone who nearly mimics what I do @_@

We need to play, sometime. I bet if our Links clashed, the world would probably explode :/ :/

 

[PokemonMaster]

What tips can you Link vets give against Ike?

Looking especially how I can punish one that makes good excessive use of his forward B dash.

Throwing the bomb I have in my hand or quickly shooting an arrow works most of the time, but would like to know if there's anyway I can punish it better.
I find that even if I intrupt it with a bomb or arrow 3 out of 4 times, him hitting me once with it more than makes up for a few arrows in the chest.

 

[sasook]

The Ike boards have done a matchup against Link already. Check there ^_^

 

[Onomanic]

What tips can you Link vets give against Ike?

Looking especially how I can punish one that makes good excessive use of his forward B dash.

Throwing the bomb I have in my hand or quickly shooting an arrow works most of the time, but would like to know if there's anyway I can punish it better.
I find that even if I intrupt it with a bomb or arrow 3 out of 4 times, him hitting me once with it more than makes up for a few arrows in the chest.

Ike's QD has no priority. Heck, you can stop him in his tracks with a fricken jab! And if he charges it, don't worry. Space properly, toss your rang, it'll push him off the stage, he won't react fast enough and he dies. :D Assuming he's on the ledge of course. Here's a formula (I do these a lot) for one defensive strat with Link's projectiles. (All "Jump Backs" or anything with jumping backward is a SH (Short hop))

Back Jump->Rang->Jump back again->Throw a bomb immediately->Arrow cancel

I use this strat all the time against anyone. It's good for spacing and is a WALL of projectiles. :D Since Ike lacks projectiles, this will keep him back and raise his damage high enough for the kill. :D And by the way... why didn't you ask this in the Q&A Thread? It's cool to ask here but it would've made more sense to ask in the Q&A Thread lol


Hope I helped.

 

[PokemonMaster]

I kind of got the impression that the Q&A were more for tech-based questions while metagame would fit better for "vs. specific character" questions.

 

[NintenJoe]

I kind of got the impression that the Q&A were more for tech-based questions while metagame would fit better for "vs. specific character" questions.

Metagame discussion is mostly techniques and utility, not so much on character match-ups. For future reference, post simple questions with short answers in the Q&A thread.

 

[4Serial]

HEY GUYS I THINK I MIGHT BE ON TO SOMETHING

Basically a way to edgeguard.. Not sure how effective it can be, but it's pretty safe. Take out a bomb, go off the edge, z-drop the bomb, and hug the edge. lol I dunno, I randomly did this and it looked pretty cool. It could be used to edgeguard ZSS.. like you're edgeguarding with a bomb, and you steal the edge from her, with a possibility that the bomb will stagespike her. It just looks really cool.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone do this, but it's similar to that Peach edgeguard in Melee, where she floats to the edge with a turnip, drops the turnip and grabs the edge.
Don't care about the name.

Spoiler

Bomb Guard Hug Wave Canceling?

Doesn't really need one.
You can probably do this > ledgehopped d-air > ****

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

HEY GUYS I THINK I MIGHT BE ON TO SOMETHING

Basically a way to edgeguard.. Not sure how effective it can be, but it's pretty safe. Take out a bomb, go off the edge, z-drop the bomb, and hug the edge. lol I dunno, I randomly did this and it looked pretty cool. It could be used to edgeguard ZSS.. like you're edgeguarding with a bomb, and you steal the edge from her, with a possibility that the bomb will stagespike her. It just looks really cool.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone do this, but it's similar to that Peach edgeguard in Melee, where she floats to the edge with a turnip, drops the turnip and grabs the edge.
Don't care about the name.

Spoiler

Bomb Guard Hug Wave Canceling?

Doesn't really need one.
You can probably do this > ledgehopped d-air > ****

zomg. i remember doing this one day for kicks and giggles but i never thought about any uses it could possibly have, and then quickly forgot about it... interesting