~~Official Link Metagame Discussion~~

[NintenJoe]

So, I've decided to make this thread so that the Link community can discuss Link's Metagame in an orginized fashion. We also need some of this stuff to be tested, so please post on the thread if you are testing something/want to test something. I will not post things that are already confirmed, such as the Gale Guard and DI Zair recovery.

Ok, so without further ado, here it goes:

Smoke Screening​

Potential Uses: Set up mindgames and allow for easy grabs and projectile usage without the predictability[/COLOR]

Problems: You need to watch your bombs, place them perfectly, and get into the bast radius quickly enough after the bomb explodes to utilize the smoke it creates

Testers: (~Unavailable~)

Boomerang Cancel​

Uair and Dair have a lot of lag and shouldn't be used carelessly because of this. But, if you throw a Gale Boomerang and catch it right when Link reaches the ground, the lag will dissapear. So, here's what we need to do to eliminate Dair and Uair lag:

Throw a Gale Boomerang upward before assaulting your opponent with a Dair or Uair. Make sure you hit the ground when the Gale Boomerang is close to you to eliminate the landing lag. Not only will the Gale Boomerang being thrown upward bring the enemy towards you, it will cancel the lag of Dair/Uair and allow you to follow up with a grab, Jab cancel, Fsmash, etc.

Potential Uses: Elimiate most lag on Uair and Dair, Set up Dair

Problems: You need to keep track of the Gale boomerang and its trejectory. You may also land Dair or Uair too early or too late.

Testers: NintenJoe, utilizing the technique in actual gameplay by timing to boomerang where you land a Dair on the enemy, fast fall to the ground, and follow up with a jab combo.

Double Nair Combo​

...I SHed and did a nair. I hit with the hitbox that does less knock back (mind you, the comp was at 60+%) and SHed again and Naired and it connected. This surprised me. It may or may not work against real opponents but it works at high percents just as well as low. BUT you can only do it when both of you are in the air (I think, I need to more tests and a vid later). It might be a true combo (I highly doubt it). And isn't this called buffering? I knew there was a term for doing this.... w/e.

I'll have a video up later. And I'll test if it works on the ground.

Formula:
SH->Nair (less knockback)->SH->Nair (doesn't matter which hit box)

And if it works for Nair, it'll probably work for Fair also.

Potential Uses: A potential true combo which will get aerial opponents out of the air and safety spaced onto the ground.

Problems: Not yet sure if this will work in fast-paced competitive combat or that it is a true combo.

Testers: Blu Link, who is currently calculating the techniques usefullness and combo-ability.

Dtilt True Combo​

Think of the spike hitbox as an outlining of Link's sword. If you hit anywhere beyond that outline, It won't work.

The d-tilt has lot's of hitstun, but sends foes too high to combo into anything. If you ever manage to hit someone with the spike hitbox on a grounded enemy, it'll send them only half way up with all the hitstun still there leading into a true combo if you proceed to attack. The only problem? How are you suppose to hit anyone on the floor with that!?

Potential Uses: Allow Link to true combo an opponent by utilizing the hitstun on Dtilt.

Problems: Finding the grounded Dtilt spike hitbox and making the enemy go half the vertical distance of a normal Dtilt without impeding the amount of hitstun.

Testers: (~Unavailable~)

Reverse Dtilt Spike/Reverse Dtilt Spike Set-Up

Reverse Dtilt Spike​

Ok, don't know if it's known already here (I'm new here), but after a week of training mode trying to get this down:

Obviously, the sword doesn't spike like it used to in melee, it's changed completely.

The first thing I discovered is that if contact is made with the opponent's FEET (by feet I mean they must be just above you, it can be their head if they are upside down while falling lol), at the hilt of the sword, it spikes. Ridiculous conditions.

Some more tinkering, couldn't really find anything.

FINALLY one day I was just too lazy to turn around as cpu was coming down behind me. So I did the dtilt when they were behind me, and it spiked. And it clicked. At first I wondered if it could really be so simple.

So I played around with it, and learned that if the opponent's DI is toward you and you do a dtilt facing away from them, it will ALWAYS spike. I even used it in a match as proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YphFc3Hh3AY[/COLOR]

Potential Uses: Allow Link to spike enemies who are recovering and a vertical angle towards the ledge.

Problems: Turning around and actually spiking your opponent.

Testers: Sasook, testing the exact hitbox of the Dtilt spike and where it needs to hit the enemy to kill them.

Reverse Dtilt Spike Set-Up​

Then I found you can to the right position with a reverse bombslide fakeout. I think this

1) provides a use for the bombslide fake

2) could be useful in that the explosion of the bomb hitting the opponent off stage while they are recovering could bring them right into your spike.

Another idea: Jump off the ledge->Gale Guard an enemy so that their only option is to recover towards the ledge at a vertical angle->land on the stage, facing the opposite direction of the ledge->when the opponent recovers, backwards Dtilt spike

...the reverse bomb DAC also gives Link a bigger push backwards while sliding than the reverse cancel.

The backwards roll is a good way to set up for the reverse spike, but the problem is if you hit you opponent all the way across the map, you probably won't have enough time to run to the other side, roll, the Dtilt spike before they recover.

the problem with the reverse bombslide is that if the bomb hits your opponent, they may not get close enough to the ledge. (I think) The bomb hitting your opponent into the spike seems good, but its very situational to your opponent's DI. If they DI towards the ledge, which seems probable, then it might work.

DAC could work, it moves Link very quickly but there is a lot of lag on it.

...jab cancel > hope they DI into you a lot > d-tilt?

...dash attack > d-tilt spike at mid percents is really easy to do, as long as you've set them up really close to the edge...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8yXMgN9SZU

Potential Uses: Set up the reverse Dtilt spike quickly and more effectively than with the dodge roll.

Problems: Do any of these techniques effectively set up the opponent to be hit by the Dtilt spike or do they just help them recover?

Testers:NintenJoe, Gale Guard->Reverse Dtilt and Bomslide-Reverse Cancel->Reverse Dtilt. Sasook, Bomslide-Reverse Cancel->Reverse Dtilt. BluLink, making a video for the reverse Dtilt spike.

Jab Lock Set-Ups​

if they're on the edge of a platform and shielding > full hop n-air from the middle going outwards off the edge with them > this pushes them off the edge > n-air again to lock them > proceed with jablock

Favorite Dtilt use: That ridiculous Jablock setup in Ryuto's vid; Zair 1st hit --> Dtilt spike --> Jablock. xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e291cu7khzE

Potential Uses: Set up Link's infinite, the Jab Lock, efficiently and in a variety of different ways to avoid predictability

Problems: Jab Locks are hard to set-up so we need to find easy procedures for doing so

Testers: (~Unavailable~)

Gale Return​

Potential Uses: True combos, jab lock set-up. boomerang cancel set-up, possibly a spike set-up.[/COLOR]

Problems: It's very hard to set-up the boomerang perfectly so that it will "catch" the opponent and bring them back to you. It's also very hard to determine where, exactly, your opponent will fly after you hit them with a ground attack. Also, if you have an intention to kill someone, but you Gale Return on accident, you may miss a chance to kill your opponent.

Testers: NintenJoe, tested by setting it up against real players

Ledgehop Bombdrop/4Serial's Bombguard​

Basically a way to edgeguard.. Not sure how effective it can be, but it's pretty safe. Take out a bomb, go off the edge, z-drop the bomb, and hug the edge. lol I dunno, I randomly did this and it looked pretty cool. It could be used to edgeguard ZSS.. like you're edgeguarding with a bomb, and you steal the edge from her, with a possibility that the bomb will stagespike her. It just looks really cool... it's similar to that Peach edgeguard in Melee, where she floats to the edge with a turnip, drops the turnip and grabs the edge.

Potential Uses: This technique could possbily stagespike certain characters, especially those with tether recoveries. It also limits the options of an opponent recovering from the ledge.

Problems: 4Serial's Bombguard will help Link put a bomb on the ledge quickly, but it's uncertain whether or not this technique will stagespike.

Testers: (~Unavailable~)

Please tell me if I've missed anything.

Discuss.

 

[Deleted member]

boomerang cancel is extremely situational

bomb draw recovery boost has been busted

dtilt spike would be hella useful if we could find out how it fcking works >_<

m i doin it right?

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

bomb draw recovery boost has been busted

MYTHBUSTERS!

Anywhoo, now that that's out of my system...

I want to find a useful way to use that ridiculous Zair 1sthit + Dtilt spike --> JabLock setup. lol

 

[Onomanic]

Clever idea NintenJoe. :D Very good idea. I'd like to look around more but I have things to do lol

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Their is a lot more then this in Links Meta game.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

MYTHBUSTERS!

Anywhoo, now that that's out of my system...

I want to find a useful way to use that ridiculous Zair 1sthit + Dtilt spike --> JabLock setup. lol

Me and you both... I've only got it right once in a match.

 

[NintenJoe]

Their is a lot more then this in Links Meta game.

Yea, but as I said we'll only be discussing hot topics that aren't confirmed for his Metagame. I don't want to put all of Link's metagame on here because most of its in my guide already...

 

[LinkSpecialist]

I fully support this thread. I hope this goes places and improves us overall.

 

[4Serial]

how about jab cancel > hope they DI into you a lot > d-tilt? <_<
on their shields, close z-air > single jab cancel > z-air > repeat
single jab cancels **** for shield pressure

needs more easy jab lock set ups
if they're on the edge of a platform and shielding > full hop n-air from the middle going outwards off the edge with them > this pushes them off the edge > n-air again to lock them > proceed with jablock
i've gotten this thing to work like twice before
just as good as u-tilt > jab lock

i think you can fulljab > pivot slide > jab lock on big characters at super low percents and if they don't tech

 

[NintenJoe]

how about jab cancel > hope they DI into you a lot > d-tilt? <_<
on their shields, close z-air > single jab cancel > z-air > repeat
single jab cancels **** for shield pressure

needs more easy jab lock set ups
if they're on the edge of a platform and shielding > full hop n-air from the middle going outwards off the edge with them > this pushes them off the edge > n-air again to lock them > proceed with jablock
i've gotten this thing to work like twice before
just as good as u-tilt > jab lock

i think you can fulljab > pivot slide > jab lock on big characters at super low percents and if they don't tech

thanks for the idea. I'll add this to the list. Does anyone have that Jab Lock video set up? I lost it a while back and I want it to help complete this part of the Metagame discussion.

 

[sasook]

Does anyone have that Jab Lock video set up? I lost it a while back and I want it to help complete this part of the Metagame discussion.

Sure, here you go. It was in my guide the whole time lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e291cu7khzE

 

[NintenJoe]

thank you sasook, I put the video in the Metagame thing. I've never watched the whole thing before, but its awesome. O_o

 

[Onomanic]

NintenJoe, prepare to have another vid once one you guys sends me some reverse bomb sliding replays. After I get that footage, I'll edit it together and make a vid for reverse bomb slide dtilt set ups. ^_^ Basic set ups to more advanced ones.

 

[NintenJoe]

NintenJoe, prepare to have another vid once one you guys sends me some reverse bomb sliding replays. After I get that footage, I'll edit it together and make a vid for reverse bomb slide dtilt set ups. ^_^ Basic set ups to more advanced ones.

yea, I'll add bombsliding here later, after the vid is released. I would send you vids of my bombslides, but I can only get pics from my Wii to my computer, but I can't do vids yet. I have to get pinnacle studio set up on my computer. My other computer broke recently and I haven't had time to get the program set up on my computer.

 

[NintenJoe]

Ok, I posted another old concept on the metagame, called the gale return (or so I think, please correct me if I'm wrong) This one's a tough one to set up, but it leads to true combo, spikes, and much much more.

Discuss

 

[sasook]

@blu link - I'll have the replays sent to you soon, just haven't had a free moment lately.

@NintenJoe - don't remind me of gale returns It's stopped me from getting so many KOs. I think you should add that part - the potential risks of missing a KO. Like....I've fsmashed/dair'd opponents that would have been sure kills but the boomerang saved them. So, don't try this at high percents, go for like mid percents.

 

[Onomanic]

@blu link - I'll have the replays sent to you soon, just haven't had a free moment lately.

@NintenJoe - don't remind me of gale returns It's stopped me from getting so many KOs. I think you should add that part - the potential risks of missing a KO. Like....I've fsmashed/dair'd opponents that would have been sure kills but the boomerang saved them. So, don't try this at high percents, go for like mid percents.

sasook, you haven't give me your Wii Number yet. And gale returns can be nasty when ruining a kill. It happened to me while training earlier. I laughed though.

 

[NintenJoe]

don't remind me of gale returns It's stopped me from getting so many KOs. I think you should add that part - the potential risks of missing a KO. Like....I've fsmashed/dair'd opponents that would have been sure kills but the boomerang saved them. So, don't try this at high percents, go for like mid percents.

And gale returns can be nasty when ruining a kill. It happened to me while training earlier. I laughed though.

Yeah, that's true. I'll add that to the gale return.

 

[Onomanic]

NintenJoe! Put my Double Nair into this thread, the editing of the vid is being accomplished as I type.

 

[NintenJoe]

NintenJoe! Put my Double Nair into this thread, the editing of the vid is being accomplished as I type.

ok, i added it, even though I don['t fully understand it...

 

[Onomanic]

You'll see in the vid. It's hard to visualize with a reference from a vid.

 

[sasook]

On a side note, has anyone found a vid of boomerang canceling?

 

[Onomanic]

Nope, not yet. I already have one vid I have to make, I have no intentions of making one about 'rang canceling. Not yet.

 

[Onomanic]

ok, i added it, even though I don['t fully understand it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAwhCLldVLM

Now you'll understand lol

 

[Onomanic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8yXMgN9SZU

^^^^Vids done lol

 

[sasook]

w00t! Man, whoever is controlling that Link is freakin' sexy, those bombslides were like teh uber PWNz.

Lol jk, nice vid blu link.

Edit - you forgot to put all that info i gave you in the description and I thought you were gonna make it a response to my fight with matt? lol still its a good vid

 

[NintenJoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8yXMgN9SZU

^^^^Vids done lol

this video is win, congratulations on the awesome vid, Blu Link and Sasook!

 

[Onomanic]

lol Thanks. And sasook I'm on it. I was playing Nerf Capture the Flag with some friends. I'm on it ^^ sasook, make a thread on it. That way it'll be easier to find.

 

[sasook]

Well, it's in my dtilt spike topic. You still want me to make a new thread for it?

 

[Onomanic]

Sure! Go ahead. That way, it'll be easier to find. ^^ You preformed in the vid, I just edited it together.

 

[sasook]

Hmm, I don't want to crowd the boards with another topic if there's already one related to it. I'll just edit the title of my own.

 

[4Serial]

Wait, why does double N-air need it's own discussion? <_<
I thought everyone knew about it lol
Fullhop n-air > n-air or double jump n-air > grab is ****

 

[Onomanic]

Idk. I thought it was important and I've never heard of it in any guide.

 

[4Serial]

it doesn't really have to be in any guide O_o it's been the same since melee, but nerfed lol.

 

[NintenJoe]

Wait, why does double N-air need it's own discussion? <_<
I thought everyone knew about it lol
Fullhop n-air > n-air or double jump n-air > grab is ****

Well, I just wanted to bring it up because Blulink wanted me to. I think its a worthwhile discussion to have, especially determining what to set it up with.

The main purpose of this thread is to advance Link's Metagame and help me with improving my guide. Getting the information from very experience Link players, such as yourself, helps me determine what is worthy of being mentioned. So having every piece of information I'm "unsure" of covered will help me determine what to add and what to discard as useless.

 

[sasook]

The main purpose of this thread is to advance Link's Metagame and help me with improving my guide.

And mine too.

 

[sasook]

For the video reference for boomerang canceling, you could just say "_____(time) in the dtilt setups." I don't remember the time, but I show how it's done in blu link/my vid.

EDIT - sorry for double post.

 

[4Serial]

okay, I found out something that MIGHT work on people

a semi jab lock infinite: set up for a jab lock and start it however you want. when you get close to the edge, you can pivot slide past them and boomerang back into their ****ing face in and jab lock to the other side. It's VERY easy to do if you already know how to jab lock consistently.

Now, there are some things to keep in mind... the higher the percent they are, the harder this will be because the jab sends them farther. you have to space the pivot slide and boomerang to get it right. It's better not to be too close.

Spoiler

The boomerang lock is VERY escapable. I was trying it on level 9s, and when you hit them straight on with the boomerang, they airdodge before they get to the ground... so yeah. That's why I call it a semi infinite.Just keep this part a secret ;D NO ONE MUST KNOW ABOUT THIS

This is really good if you started a jab lock too close to the edge and will only gain a bit of damage, so you can get a lot more out of it.

 

[sasook]

I like what I read......*rubs hands in a sinister way*

 

[Deva]

Hmm, Link's metagame. . .let me see. . .

run away, zair, space, spam, DI, momentum cancel, pull bomb, throw rang, recover, jab, roll, d-smash, dair, cp norfair. . .repeat.


do everything in that order and you'll have Link's metagame down like the back of your hand xD. =P