~~Official Link Metagame Discussion~~

[Finns7]

Does anybody kno the reason why the boomerang hits opponents back torwards you or away...is it random? Is it determined by the angle of the rang as it connects?

 

[Onomanic]

Hmm I really haven't figured that out. I use rang usually at long range for spacing but I suppose it would have something to do with the distance between you and your opponent or the angle in which you toss the rang.

 

[SuSa]

If you hit the "backside" of the opponent (normally its when you angle it down at them from the air and they just begin to jump) it hits them towards you, as if you hit the other side.

If you watch my combo video in "slow-mo" you see when Falco lands (first vid of Falco) his head dips under, right when he put his head down so the BACK was facing me, my boomerang hit him and he came towards me.

This seems to be the ONLY explanation. The boomerang has 2 hitboxes it seems like, slightly (if at all) affected by DI, along with the Wind Pushing.

1. Away knockdown (whether towards you or away, depends where it hits!)
2. Straight up knockdown (not sure what causes this one, I think its when your to far away but the hitbox is still there, it knocks them up)

 

[Onomanic]

So how about my Auto Cancel Uair? I think that should be in the OP XD

 

[NintenJoe]

So how about my Auto Cancel Uair? I think that should be in the OP XD

it doesn't really need to be discussed, after all we:

1. Know it works
2. Know how to set it up/uses
3. Know that it can be performed in fast paced gameplay.

What's there to discuss?

 

[NintenJoe]

I updated the OP with "smoke screening" a stupid thing I've been toying with for a while now. Although it will not be useful, it would be flashy and good for setting up mindgames on small stages.

 

[Onomanic]

I believe I've found the hitbox for the spike! :O I know how exciting and what a way to wake up THESE DEAD BOARDS ON A SUNDAY NIGHT! STOP DOING YOUR HOMEWORK!

Anyway, this is all based on speculation. I had to watch a clip over and over again. I've figured that is is quite literally in his body, as stated in some other thread. But I've found a bit more accurate statement. I believe the hit box is around hit feet, shield and around the hilt. Bottom line, you have to be mad close to your opponent to spike them. It's almost impossible to really figure it out but the timing is pretty loose. So I hope I'm right >_<

 

[Matt07]

Wow, that's really good news! Now all we have to find is find a way to setup to the spike.

 

[Onomanic]

I'm really not sure about it yet. It still needs major testing.

 

[sasook]

To add to what blu link said, maybe some of this will make more clear of what he means:

The Spike:

So here it is, one of the most coveted moves by Link players, and probably the toughest to land. It doesn't spike the same way as melee, but it still does.

Forwards

READ CAREFULLY HERE. The spike is pretty interesting. It has multiple hitboxes, all of which are still unclear to the Link boards, though a general idea has been made, which is the the outline of the sword and Link's body. Through personal testing, this is what I found:

-the hilt of the sword connects when the opponent is just above it. Even so, this seldom connects, most of the time they will go up.

Here's what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ty3ulWjfAs

-the opponent is hanging on the ledge with no invincibility frames and the hitbox is like 2/3 of his sword length.

Here's what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Z2wV9657U&NR=1 (note, just about all the terms in this video are incorrectly named)

Let's say you want to do this one when they are beneath you in the air. That can be done as well, similar to the hanging one, the hitbox being anywhere from 2/3 of the sword length to the tip.

Here's what I mean: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zYa-u9HD0fY

And also at 1:00: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlGbz-Me0Rs

Reverse

-my own discovery, the reverse spike. This one is tricky to understand. This hitbox is inside Link, literally in his body (he's a mutant, I mean c'mon in all his games he has multiple hearts XD). So get to the edge, face the middle of the stage, and hold down. If the player tries to ledgehop and has a DI toward the stage or tries to jump back on, the down tilt WILL spike them, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

-Here is the video of this spike. It's at the very end (my game ending move lol, a nice finish) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqmWLrEO5Ac

Keep in mind that just because I rolled in that video doesn't mean that's the only way to get into position. Using reverse bombslides, which are explained later, can help you get into position rather easily.

Though you may not understand bombsliding just yet, here's what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8yXMgN9SZU

The problem with this spike is that it’s essentially useless. Most of the time, someone will try to hit you away from the edge before grabbing on it. Still though, if you can somehow use it, go for it.

We really need to find out this thing soon, it's annoying me.

 

[Matt07]

Haha, everyday you guys are inching closer towards finding out everything about the d-tilt spike. I think it's like the most discussed move, out of any other characters move.

 

[Onomanic]

Probably should of mentioned this, smooth boot to the ledge and you can hit under on his boots lol That was pretty cool. And it also hits on the bottom of his shield (kinda) but only when you crouch.

 

[sasook]

Didn't someone say it's at the back of his head? (for the reverse)

Also, to any doubters who are iffy about the reverse, Matt and I tested it several times. Every time it hit, it always spiked. *folds arms*

 

[Onomanic]

I hit it around hit lower back a few times. So I guess it hits every time.

 

[Matt07]

I remember testing it, for about 4 hours. And about 3 hours on just Kirby alone, annoying to spike, very annoying, and extremely difficult.

 

[sasook]

Yeah seriously, we tried going straight up from underneath, scaling the underside of Battlefield, coming in at an angle, it was so freakin' hard!

 

[PokemonMaster]

nothing much, I just found out yesterday while playing Falco if they try to flashstep from off the ledge back on, you can cancel the flashstep after it begins with an easily timed neutral air.

 

[Onomanic]

Good to know I suppose. Anyway, I'm beginning to catch onto something. Dark Link's DI seems way better than all the other Link's. It sounds bizarre but my friend just recently DIed a spike towards the stage and teched off the wall. Plus ArkiveZero (Need I say more?). Think about it....

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

You know, I think you ARE onto something. I use Dark Link. I should know. lol Dark Link FTW

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Good to know I suppose. Anyway, I'm beginning to catch onto something. Dark Link's DI seems way better than all the other Link's. It sounds bizarre but my friend just recently DIed a spike towards the stage and teched off the wall. Plus ArkiveZero (Need I say more?). Think about it....

guesses you are joking, but well it is brawl, a game where nothing seems correct so I need to test this. But if it is true shouldnt the other links have some advantages as well making us going to counterpick by just changing the colour of our costume, that would be so awesome.

 

[Ademar440]

I've got a New find for you guys

So sakurai said in the dojo that you can not do attacks out of shield if tap jump is off, well, guess what. I found a way:

Just shield, hold up ( you can tilt or smash the stick up, it works anyway ), then slide your thumb from X ( jump ) to A and Link will do the UpSmash OOS I maped specials to Y so I could do UpB OOS to, and by the way you can charge both attacks too, you can do this without shielding.

I tried to discuss this on this topic http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205179 but it seems that it suffers the luigi syndrome

I don't know If I got right on this one but, you say you turned tap jump on to do attacks OOS, mmm I don't know if this is old but, you can do UpB and UpSmash OOS with tap jump off, even if sakurai says you couldn't, I use tap jump off, maped my special attacks to B and Y, that way while shielding I just hold Up on the stick and slide my thumb from X to A to do an UpSmash OOS and from X to Y to do a spin atack OOS, note that I wrote "slide my thumb" it is faster for me this way, this works even if you are not shielding just hold up and slide your thumb from X to A and you'll UpSmash every time without even moving the stick just holding it up and sliding your thumb, hope this helps someone, greetings.

I quote myself

I NEVER let go my shield and UpSmash and UpB seem just as fast as with tap jump on, and when the UpSmash ends my shield goes back up with no delay, and about my set up I know it is not necesary but I maped specials to Y to be able to do UpB faster

So



Read my previous posts on this topic, try it, I swear it works without tap jump on, and no, you won't need to drop your shield.

Just shield, hold up ( you can tilt or smash the stick up, it works anyway ), then slide your thumb from X ( jump ) to A and Link will do the UpSmash OOS I maped specials to Y so I could do UpB OOS to, and by the way you can charge both attacks too, you can do this without shielding.

You can find this here too

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206639

 

[3xSwords]

Should using an exploding bomb to cancel out after lag on dair and uair ever be used instead of boomerang cancel? IMO it's not as situational since it's not restricted by timing the return of a boomerang, and since Brawl hitstun is low it's not to bad in terms of recovery. Damage of course is but a small price to pay.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Should using an exploding bomb to cancel out after lag on dair and uair ever be used instead of boomerang cancel? IMO it's not as situational since it's not restricted by timing the return of a boomerang, and since Brawl hitstun is low it's not to bad in terms of recovery. Damage of course is but a small price to pay.

Personally, I think attempting to cancel out your Dair is ridiculous... Rang or Bomb. It's probably best to just know how and when to use the Dair normally without being punished. Just follow general guidelines like Dair high so it autocancels before you hit the ground, or don't FF so you can shieldbounce, etc.

Just my opinion, but yeah.

 

[NintenJoe]

Should using an exploding bomb to cancel out after lag on dair and uair ever be used instead of boomerang cancel? IMO it's not as situational since it's not restricted by timing the return of a boomerang, and since Brawl hitstun is low it's not to bad in terms of recovery. Damage of course is but a small price to pay.

Maybe, but usually if you blow yourself up with the bomb you're kind of vulnerable. I've been playing around with the timing of the boomerang and so far its working out well for me. I could see how the bomb would sort of be a "fail safe" and it could also solve our chain grab problem...

 

[Onomanic]

Well there are ups and downs to each technique of lag canceling but IMO, the bomb one is probably more practical. Who has actually used the boomerang cancel on purpose? I find it very unlikely for anyone to make use of it. The bomb cancel is more practical and easier to use. Down side to it though is that at the higher percents, the knock back and hit stun (or lack of xD) can be punished (if you miss the opponent and don't kill them that is). Which is what the boomerang cancel has an advantage to the bomb cancel: No damage. But the amount of advantages to disadvantages the rang cancel has is more leaning towards disadvantages.

Advantages:
Cancels the lag on Dair and Uair

Disadvantages:
Unpractical
Hard to use
Opponent can ride on gale and charge a smash O_o

See where I'm coming from? Bomb cancel

Advantages:
Same as Rang Cancel
Easier

Disadvantages:
Damage is taken

Discuss ololololol

 

[NintenJoe]

Well there are ups and downs to each technique of lag canceling but IMO, the bomb one is probably more practical. Who has actually used the boomerang cancel on purpose? I find it very unlikely for anyone to make use of it.

I've actually used it. Although it was only completely sucessful a few times, if everything works out, it goes like this:

Dair->Cancelled Knockback->Boomerang Cancel->Jab Lock->Death

I only did this once, but it was gorgeous. Usually I either boomerang cancel into a jab cancel or something less difficult than a jab lock.

Advantages:
Cancels the lag on Dair and Uair(Cancelling Uairs lag is pointless, IMO)

Disadvantages:
Unpractical
Hard to use
Opponent can ride on gale and charge a smash O_o(If used incorrectly... the gale should either carry the opponent away from you or carry them while they still have hitstun)

See where I'm coming from? Bomb cancel

Advantages:
Same as Rang Cancel
Easier

Disadvantages:
Damage is taken(Hitstun, too)

Discuss ololololol

Bomb cancelling is better for people who can't boomerang cancel or just don't want to watch the boomerang constantly

Boomerang cancelling is better cuz it has much better follow-ups, its just a lot more work.

 

[Onomanic]

Boomerang cancelling is better cuz it has much better follow-ups, its just a lot more work.

THAT'S WHY I SHOT IT DOWN OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

allcaps

 

[NintenJoe]

THAT'S WHY I SHOT IT DOWN OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

allcaps

Yeah, who likes work, anway?

As a matter of fact, it's much easier to just press B button repeatedly and camp ledges than worry about some stupid "metagame".

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8&feature=related

How to win without any work involved.

 

[Onomanic]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8&feature=related

Just wondering.... why do you use the UK Youtube?

 

[NintenJoe]

Just wondering.... why do you use the UK Youtube?

no idea, it just links me to UK youtube now. It's as big of a mystery to me as it is to you.

P.S. Lol Plank

Spoiler

he's ruining brawl...

>_>

 

[sasook]

Personally, I think attempting to cancel out your Dair is ridiculous... Rang or Bomb. It's probably best to just know how and when to use the Dair normally without being punished. Just follow general guidelines like Dair high so it autocancels before you hit the ground, or don't FF so you can shieldbounce, etc.

Just my opinion, but yeah.

Boomerang canceling and bomb canceling are both good and all, but I agree with Blubba on this one. They're both too hard for my taste, even if the bomb one is easier. But....I use dair maybe once every 3 matches, so it's not a big deal for me. My dair is ALWAYS fresh lol

Though I will say this:

Boomerang canceling is really cool. If you can do it effectively, kudos to you

Bomb canceling gives you damage - disadvantage? I say nah, I play better at higher percents for some reason. My comfort zone is above 100%. No idea why, it just is lol

 

[G1G4 G0N0RRH34]

i want to learn how to play link plank
he's amazing <3

 

[-Mars-]

At least we have Plank to thank for extreme ledge stalling being banned.

 

[Zezima0123]

What's plank?

 

[NintenJoe]

What's plank?

Plank was a popular Sheik melee player who capatalizes on ledge stalling in Brawl. Some people support what he's doing because they hate Brawl, others say his actions will get the act of ledge-stalling (now called "Planking" in his honor) banned, even more hate him for his deliberate showing of Brawl's flaws.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8&feature=related

This is a video of Plank playing Brawl.

The more you know!

 

[-Mars-]

Plank was a popular Sheik melee player who capatalizes on ledge stalling in Brawl. Some people support what he's doing because they hate Brawl, others say his actions will get the act of ledge-stalling (now called "Planking" in his honor) banned, even more hate him for his deliberate showing of Brawl's flaws.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8&feature=related

This is a video of Plank playing Brawl.

The more you know!

If you actually read the comments under the video, Plank doesn't usually ledge stall that extreme. He was doing it because he was dead tired at 1:30 a.m. in the morning, SK92 was stupid enough to not be able to handle it, and $300 was on the line.

edit: Even respected players like M2K think Plank is a top MK.

 

[NintenJoe]

If you actually read the comments under the video, Plank doesn't usually ledge stall that extreme. He was doing it because he was dead tired at 1:30 a.m. in the morning, SK92 was stupid enough to not be able to handle it, and $300 was on the line.

edit: Even respected players like M2K think Plank is a top MK.

I never said he wasn't a top MK, I'm just saying that ledge stalling is sort of his, well, "thing". (For lack of a better phrase) I find that Plank is most commonly associated with the ledge camping game. He's a great player, but I can't say I support what he's doing...

 

[G1G4 G0N0RRH34]

Plank is good, his tactics are totally legit

it's brawl, what can you do?

 

[sasook]

Legit maybe, but that doesn't mean they're respected. How he plays, especially in that Axis match against Sk92 (I don't care about times and tiredness, no johns) - it's no wonder so many people dislike him.

 

[Matt07]

Lol you guys should be glad, c'mon it's Falco getting beat up :D.

But yea, in a competitive game, there is no 'honor' it's for cash, I can't really blame their attitude/style of fighting, but I do dislike it though.