Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

[RoflWafflez]

Im back from tsting, and here are my results:

Executed at the same time, BOTH the u-tilt and the d-smash connect and hit the chars. So yea, they dont clash/clank, and it wont really save u from dying cuz u still get hit...i guess i was just remembering the u-tilt connecting with MK's face...
And executing the u-tilt about a half-second before the d-smash (cuz i think MKs d-smash has less start-up time, rite...?) the u-tilt wins.

But anyway the important thing is that the simultaneous attacks do not clash/clank, but BOTH connect. One does not beat the other. Maybe i didnt do it correctly, but that is what i got. Its not as bad as being entirely beat out!

 

[Asdioh]

Ugh. Reading through this thread, I see someone misread "MK's Dair camping" as "Kirby's Drill camping" and someone else interprets that as "Drill Rush" and you all have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

And I posted that data because I figured the on paper stuff... I mean, in comparison, it shouldn't be that hard to recover against an MK. Giant Swing back, and you have a chance of hitting him.

I used to think that until I kept getting hit in between swings. Giant Swing is very punishable, don't overestimate it.

tsrhrjjyuykregh

6-4 MK

Just listen to the man...I don't know what else to say about the matchup. It's very clearly Meta Knight's advantage, if you think otherwise, you're talking about something the players do, not the character.

 

[Kewkky]

Ugh. Reading through this thread, I see someone misread "MK's Dair camping" as "Kirby's Drill camping" and someone else interprets that as "Drill Rush" and you all have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Hey, it's not OUR fault they're both "He's", Kirby's dair is a drill, MK's sideB is a drill, and a normal human being can get confused with a sentence like "Kirby should footstool after the drill"... See what I mean?

If I got confused or not, it doesn't matter, just forget the reason I posted and take my advice on when an MK drill rushes onto the stage, and done. o_o

 

[A1lion835]

Mannnn. I'm honestly afraid to leave you guys alone for two hours.

I'm the one writing the matchup summaries, not you. I mean, we've been at this for almost 6 days, and there are 20 freaking pages! D:

Say, thrillagorilla, wanna help with the matchup thread? Heh, just a little bit of work...*attempts to dump all responsibilities on thrilla*

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

After extensive research with my colleague DC, we have concluded that the kirby/mk matchup is indeed approximately 65/35, UNLESS kirby can take mk's power each stock sometime below 50%, if he can achieve this, then the matchup becomes 60/40 or better, seeing as the gimping capabilities are far and out the window. Kirby still has to battle with approaching mk's SL, but thats nothing less than 90% of the cast.


Vids will be up soon, both of agressive style mk, and defensive. Specific videos, or parts of videos, will represent each outcome, and the options they cover.


And in DC's defence, I'm currently ranked number 1 in the state, never really losing to anyone in tourny, just to add to my credibility as a mk, and to NOT take away his credibility as a kirby for the results.


WE DO NOT want you to look at the results of each match as evidence, we want you guys to view each different situation and analyze the options he had, and the options covered.

The matchup should be based on APPROACH control, not match results.

 

[Kewkky]

After extensive research with my colleague DC, we have concluded that the kirby/mk matchup is indeed approximately 65/35, UNLESS kirby can take mk's power each stock sometime below 50%, if he can achieve this, then the matchup becomes 60/40 or better, seeing as the gimping capabilities are far and out the window. Kirby still has to battle with approaching mk's SL, but thats nothing less than 90% of the cast.


Vids will be up soon, both of agressive style mk, and defensive. Specific videos, or parts of videos, will represent each outcome, and the options they cover.


And in DC's defence, I'm currently ranked number 1 in the state, never really losing to anyone in tourny, just to add to my credibility as a mk, and to NOT take away his credibility as a kirby for the results.


WE DO NOT want you to look at the results of each match as evidence, we want you guys to view each different situation and analyze the options he had, and the options covered.

The matchup should be based on APPROACH control, not match results.

I'll just treat them as "critique my kirby!" videos, and point out at anything I might feel he did wrong (or could've done better)... I won't wait until the video finishes to then formulate an answer to the attack I already know will be out, so my answers will also be on-the-spot, in a sense.

I'll be waiting for the vids.

 

[Asdioh]

Hey, it's not OUR fault they're both "He's", Kirby's dair is a drill, MK's sideB is a drill, and a normal human being can get confused with a sentence like "Kirby should footstool after the drill"... See what I mean?

If I got confused or not, it doesn't matter, just forget the reason I posted and take my advice on when an MK drill rushes onto the stage, and done. o_o

It's not really your fault, whoever originally posted it did it in a confusing kind of way, and the person that quoted him got the wrong idea, and then you got the wrong idea from him...etc. etc.

I'm the one writing the matchup summaries, not you. I mean, we've been at this for almost 6 days, and there are 20 freaking pages! D:

it's only 9 pages if you do 40 posts per page.

After extensive research with my colleague DC, we have concluded that the kirby/mk matchup is indeed approximately 65/35, UNLESS kirby can take mk's power each stock sometime below 50%, if he can achieve this, then the matchup becomes 60/40 or better, seeing as the gimping capabilities are far and out the window. Kirby still has to battle with approaching mk's SL, but thats nothing less than 90% of the cast.


Vids will be up soon, both of agressive style mk, and defensive. Specific videos, or parts of videos, will represent each outcome, and the options they cover.


And in DC's defence, I'm currently ranked number 1 in the state, never really losing to anyone in tourny, just to add to my credibility as a mk, and to NOT take away his credibility as a kirby for the results.


WE DO NOT want you to look at the results of each match as evidence, we want you guys to view each different situation and analyze the options he had, and the options covered.

The matchup should be based on APPROACH control, not match results.

Sounds interesting...too bad my computer sucks too much to watch videos sometimes :D

Though I've been able to watch like 30 episodes of DBZ (randomly) over the past 2 days without any problems. I guess it just depends on the quality of the video...stupid computer asdfjiajg

 

[momochuu]

I'm the one writing the matchup summaries, not you. I mean, we've been at this for almost 6 days, and there are 20 freaking pages! D:

Say, thrillagorilla, wanna help with the matchup thread? Heh, just a little bit of work...*attempts to dump all responsibilities on thrilla*

I was (am?) afraid to leave you guys alone because some of you (Like 2-3 people) seem hell bent on fighting with someone.

I really think 35-65 is pushing it, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Kewkky]

I was (am?) afraid to leave you guys alone because some of you (Like 2-3 people) seem hell bent on fighting with someone.

I really think 35-65 is pushing it, but maybe that's just me.

Hey, I got over my mood swings. : /

 

[fromundaman]

After extensive research with my colleague DC, we have concluded that the kirby/mk matchup is indeed approximately 65/35, UNLESS kirby can take mk's power each stock sometime below 50%, if he can achieve this, then the matchup becomes 60/40 or better, seeing as the gimping capabilities are far and out the window. Kirby still has to battle with approaching mk's SL, but thats nothing less than 90% of the cast.


Vids will be up soon, both of agressive style mk, and defensive. Specific videos, or parts of videos, will represent each outcome, and the options they cover.


And in DC's defence, I'm currently ranked number 1 in the state, never really losing to anyone in tourny, just to add to my credibility as a mk, and to NOT take away his credibility as a kirby for the results.


WE DO NOT want you to look at the results of each match as evidence, we want you guys to view each different situation and analyze the options he had, and the options covered.

The matchup should be based on APPROACH control, not match results.

Heh, now I really want to see this... I mean, you're saying that Kirby's chances go UP if he takes Nado?!
I... I really don't know what to think. I know you're a great player, but that sounds ******** unless you guys found something no one else has.

 

[thrillagorilla]

@A1: Sure. Perhaps Bunny can somehow magically give us both the power to edit the original post. *tries to steal thread away from A1*

@Bunny: I've been keeping an eye on it Bunny, and we've been OK so far. This is nothing compared to what happened in the Snake MU supplement thread. XD I'll let you know if things get too antsy.

@Seibrik: Nice. I'd love to take a look at it. I don't think 35-65, but if you have evidence I have no qualms with it, the same as if someone were to provide evidence for a turn the other way around.

@Fromundaman: Still working, so I haven't had the chance at look at the moves yet. I'll get to it soon.

*goes back to lurking and finishing his final that should have been done days ago*

 

[momochuu]

If A1 HAS to be lazy give up the OP, I can try to give you the OP thrilla. But only if we have to resort to that. :x

 

[T-nuts]

i agree that kirby has a better chance once he gets nado. still, 65-35 seems a bit much...i know kirby has a better time vs mk than a lot of chars. ill say 60-40.

 

[DC]

Here are the vids of me vs. Seibrik. Please read the video discription for all of the vids...
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo-2XuCrUzo
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvomrjvJ8Ds
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKMw7y7Dr1Y
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXMEvrbj0ug
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoljM4wkMu8

 

[thrillagorilla]

Thanks for the vids, guys!

Wow. I had completely forgotten that we had that much more mobility in our tornado. there were times when I thought you were too predictable in your teching with those d-throw strings you took DC, and you tried to beat out SL when you should have tried to dodge it, but not bad all in all. I'd actually still go 40-60 seeing what you have here. Also, is there a reason you stop moving on occasion during the aggressive MK vid, Seibrik? (LOVE the Meta-Captain hack by the way )

On a side note, I can't seem to open the last three vids. Is it just my computer?

 

[A1lion835]

On a side note, I can't seem to open the last three vids. Is it just my computer?

I think so, I can watch them fine. *gives commentary on vids to thrilla via PM*

If A1 HAS to be lazy give up the OP, I can try to give you the OP thrilla. But only if we have to resort to that. :x

Hey, I'm just saying that it's a lot of work WAIT A SECOND.

You can give him the OP? You're a mod here?

CHECK THE FREAKING OP. XIIVI TOLD ME HE'D GET A MOD (no offense to him) TO SEPARATE THE OP INTO 2 SEPARATE POSTS (I've marked where I want them separated) AND YOU'VE BEEN HERE ALL THIS TIME. ABLE TO DO IT. AND IT HASN'T BEEN DONE.

 

[momochuu]

Whoops .

Edit: Okay. I see what you mean. I'll do it as soon as I'm at a computer. :x

 

[:mad:]

A1 doesn't really pay attention.

Also, you don't need them seperated. Seems like a waste of space for what you could do. I mean, putting updates and ratios doesn't take up that much space at all.

No OP johns.

 

[Kewkky]

DC, I know those are "example" vids, but... There were LOTS of times when I was at the edge of my seat, screaming at the monitor (mentally) "SHIELD, MAN, HE'S GONNA FTILT/DTILT/FAIR!", "AN SL IS COMING, FF AIRDODGE!", "RECOVER OVER HIM AND DI TOWARDS THE STAGE!", and such thoughts... I was trying to answer before, but I was using my college's PCs, and they don't allow us to use gaming websites (I found a way around that, to an extent...).. next time, don't try to shield after you're in range to shieldgrab them once they hit your shield: try to shield MK's attacks, expecting him to hit you with the tip of his attack's hitboxes, like if he was spacing properly. Seriously, you'll push him to the edge with just your shields.

However... I see what you mean about tornados, and I like it A LOT. I usually never inhale during a match, I'm more for combos and things, guess I'll have to start experimenting with inhales, since I feel like my close-range abilities are good enough and copy abilities need more attention now (I also wanna try the things mentioned in Snake's Kirby MU matchup thread).

I seriously SERIOUSLY still believe 100% that it is 55:45 MK's favor, but I can live with a 60:40... But a 65:35 is going overboard. I play against MKs all the time, and they even say Kirby's a ****ing hard matchup for them... And they don't suck. And I know and accept that seibrik is a great MK, but my opinion is still my opinion, and by experience alone, I know the MU is 55:45 MK's favor.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

u cant base a matchup off ur own personal exp. u can say that from the matches u say it FEELS like 55/45, but until u play SMART players that KNOW the matchup, against a SMART kirby that ALSO knows the matchup, we wont really know for certain. everything else is just speculation.

 

[Retroend]

u cant base a matchup off ur own personal exp. u can say that from the matches u say it FEELS like 55/45, but until u play SMART players that KNOW the matchup, against a SMART kirby that ALSO knows the matchup, we wont really know for certain. everything else is just speculation.

regardless, the ratio won't matter that much if you've had enough meta experience or if you feel like you can hold your own. although i know its in his favor, i can use my own ways of dealing with meta and not worry so much. kirby can hold his own, and knowing helps me see that although i will have a hard match up, it won't be impossible. everyone says the matchup is 60=40, but your own personal experience is important as well.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

retro would u care to MM at gigabits?

 

[Retroend]

retro would u care to MM at gigabits?

unfortunately, i won't be able to compete in any tourneys until the next florida gaming. i have to work and get through summer college 1st. and i'm not trying to pick a fight here seibrik. i'm just saying that all of us have ways to deal mk. we just do what we can against him, thats all.

 

[CaliburChamp]

There's too many variables in match ups to make an exact ratio. Thats why personal experience > ratio. Sounds like it can be 50:50, 55:45, and 60:40. With Seibrik's MK it's probably 60:40 vs DC Kirby. With my MK it's probably 50:50 with DC's Kirby.

 

[Retroend]

There's too many variables in match ups to make an exact ratio. Thats why personal experience > ratio. Sounds like it can be 50:50, 55:45, and 60:40. With Seibrik's MK it's probably 60:40 vs DC Kirby. With my MK it's probably 50:50 with DC's Kirby.

right because the ratio itself cannot determine the outcome of the matchup. it all comes down to the players and their fighting styles. i agree with you.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

im not picking fights im just willing to bet u havnt fought any smart mk's that are also good at the matchup.

 

[sushi-F13ND]

Would it be smart to go for a lot of sheild grabs? I've found it easy to block most of MK's approaches and counter with them to rack up damage, at least until i can go for the kill.

 

[fromundaman]

im not picking fights im just willing to bet u havnt fought any smart mk's that are also good at the matchup.

Based on the videos provided, I could direct the same comment at you.
DC has a smart Kirby, but despite the number of times he has played against MK, it still looked like he didn't know the matchup very well.

That being said, I have to look into Kirby-nado, because while you could have stopped it had you Daired instead of SLing it all the time, it did seem interesting and useful enough to consider.

 

[thrillagorilla]

right because the ratio itself cannot determine the outcome of the matchup. it all comes down to the players and their fighting styles. i agree with you.

I agree with the first part of this. Ratios don't determine the outcome at all, but a player can and should change their style if the MU calls for it. The tools available to the characters are what MUs numbers should boil down to anyways.

Edit: @sushi: It can work, but if you don't use it sparingly, you'll end up being the one getting grabbed, so be careful.

 

[sushi-F13ND]

Edit: @sushi: It can work, but if you don't use it sparingly, you'll end up being the one getting grabbed, so be careful.

ah ok, thanks for the advice

 

[Retroend]

im not picking fights im just willing to bet u havnt fought any smart mk's that are also good at the matchup.

rx-, hrnut, petey, radix... all of them i've fought. and i've learned a lot from them. however, its not like i won any matches against them, but they helped me see how i should deal with mk. it was hard, but not impossible. and i'm only going to learn more about the matchup if i keep fighting mk.

 

[SheerMadness]

This matchup has to be 60/40 for Metaknight.

Metaknight has more range, faster aerials, more priority, faster lateral and vertical mobility, and a bunch of other pluses. Kirby has... a stronger kill move which probably isn't even as good as Metaknight's spammable downsmash.

 

[Triple R]

right because the ratio itself cannot determine the outcome of the matchup. it all comes down to the players and their fighting styles. i agree with you.

We all know this already..... With that thinking we might as well not have a match up thread where we come up with ratios. This thread is provided to simply give ideas on what to expect and give people a heads up with a ratio. It is a thread to generate ideas and strategies. It is not a thread to say ratios aren't exact and personal experiences are what matters.....

 

[|RK|]

If getting MK's ability can really make this matchup possibly BETTER than 60:40... well, that's my specialty there, Copying abilities. If my internet stops being stupid, I'll do what I can.

Although I'm going to hold the abilities on hiatus and look into some way to reliably copy. Check my thread!

 

[t!MmY]

Since your T!Mmy and know a lot about Kirby, can you explain it in more detail please. ^_^

I would, but I'm fairly sure it's been done in the 2+ pages since my last post (and any pages prior to that), plus in all the threads & posts I've made on AiB about the match-up.

Here are a couple posts of mine to read
The Battle for Dreamland: Meta Knight vs. Kirby (9-17-2008)
t1's KtotW #2: Compete with Meta Knight's Speed (3-19-2009)

In summary, Meta Knight is simply a Kirby with much better attacks, priority, speed of attack, recovery, etc, etc, etc. Kirby has stronger attacks, Kirbycide, and... that's about it.

 

[A1lion835]

Alright, we're done with matchup discussion for now >:O. We've had like 15 pages, lulz. Can we all agree on 60:40 mk's favor?

 

[Retroend]

Alright, we're done with matchup discussion for now >:O. We've had like 15 pages, lulz. Can we all agree on 60:40 mk's favor?

yea i'll go with it. so who should we discuss next?

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ **** no! It's 55/45 dang it. D=< ☆

☆ Alright, I guess if the majority votes than it's 60/40 though it doesn't feel like that to me. I guess we need to fix the Zelda match up next huh? ☆

 

[A1lion835]

Whoever gets to 4 votes first. I'd recommend Zelda though.

 

[|RK|]

Zelda, agreed.