Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

[fromundaman]

You really need to read the posts you quote a bit more carefully, considering you throw some things at me which I addressed in the very same post, and some which are just common sense, as well as a few which are answered by the very thing you quoted.

Ah there's so many things I want to comment on...


Just for the record... glide attack can be spaced correctly. It has deceiving range and when space correctly, even if powershielded, MK can land and dsmash if he see us running up to punish him.

Indeed. Of course, if you notice, I said shielding Shuttle loop, not glide attack. Glide attack, as also mentioned in that same post, is easy to punish by making it clank with Bair or Utilt, since it makes MK fall for a bit longer and right in front of you to boot.

Indeed, a lot of people don't realize this.

Agreed.

And your entire post makes it sound like MK HAS to approach us. It's 100 times easier for MK to camp us when they have the lead. Seriously, I've read your entire post and (I apologize to say), but it's nothing but simplified strategies that look like they would work on paper but don't in real matches. No MK is going to use tornado if you are waiting for him on stage, jump out and use stone on their glide? Dair on drill rush? Lmao... I'm sorry man I can't take your post seriously.

In truth, neither side really has to approach. The problem for Kirby is that MK is both better at defending and approaching, again because of that invul on startup grounded SL.

Anything I've posted I've definitely had happen.

You've had MK Ftilt clank? We obviously aren't playing the same game then, considering MK's grounded attacks CAN'T clank. What it does do is trade hits sometimes, depending on the hit, and sometimes with Fsmash (If it's on one of the hits with equal or less range than Dtilt), though that scenario is rarely ever going to happen.

Read my short paragraph on dair camping and tell your MK friends to do the same.

Ummm... you know Fsmash isn't the only way to punish tornado right? If you tornado when we're close, our options are A) Usmash (it breaks Tornado for the first few seconds if you are below) B) Shield then chase, C) Possibly inhale, depending exactly where you are, DBair, again depending where you are, but this one is unlikely, E) Pivot grab if you are close to the ground, which you probably aren't. Most likely, it's going to be options A or B.
Again, I have played good MKs (I gave you a list in fact), and they DO do this. Just because you can't get around it doesn't mean all Kirby players can't.

It's funny though, you say this but you haven't actually given any examples. Tell me our options on a MK holding his shield from a ftilt distance away.

I gave a ton of examples in that same post, but in the situation you just described, simple, walk a short distance away, and wait. He can't hold his shield forever, and I'm not going to go attack it, that's just begging for a grounded SL OoS. I'll wait till he makes a move, and react accordingly, as well as punishing it if I can.

Then how is this even at all? In this matchup we have 2 reliable kill attacks to his what, 6? Our kill attacks are easily avoided while we struggle to rack up damage, while he has a dozen options to rack up damage and kill us, ON TOP of being able to gimp us at low percents.

Ummm... no? Bair is a reliable kill move if you refresh it with grab pummels, hammer can kill early (though landing it is improbable), Fsmash can kill early (the best way to land it being to know what moves it trades hits with, and Fsmash while MK is doing one of said moves.), depending on which part of the Dsmash you hit, it can kill early off the side, or at decent percents off the top, and isn't all that hard to land, Usmash is much easier to land than you would think, and it kills at a decent percent. If all else fails, Uthrow and Uair can kill at ridiculously high percents (like 170-180% if the MK has good DI and momentum canceling for Uthrow, probably another 40% for Uair. Not entirely sure about that one.), but you shouldn't be needing those last two.

There is more stuff that I could reply to but if you read any part of my post let it be this part...
It all boils down to the simple fact that Meta Knight has ~5 options for our 1. For example, if he shields a fsmash he can choose to grab+dthrow for damage, fthrow or bthrow us off the stage, putting us it on horrible position, grounded SL, dmash for a possible kill, jump dair, etc. If we shield one of a dsmash we can POSSIBLY ftilt him. Hell, depending on when we shield it we could expect another dmash in the face.

He has a lot more options, yes, but it's nowhere near as bad as you say. The problem is you're going off of the assumption that all we can do is Bair and shieldgrab until we land a Fsmash or hammer for the kill.
Also, MK Fthrow isn't very good and doesn't really put us in a bad position as long as we make sure to DI away from a SL followup. Bthrow however, can end badly, as you say.
As for shielding the Dsmash, it depends what hit you shield (first or second), as well as where you are (close to MK or tip of the sword range), and whether or not you perfect shield.
For the second sword slash, don't even try to punish unless you think he'll Dsmash again. For the first, if you're at the tip of the sword and normally shield it, don't try to punish. If you're close to him, you can shield grab, Ftilt, Dtilt or Dsmash. If you PS it, you can do any of the 4 previous options as well, unless maybe if you're at the tip of the sword, when all you can do is Ftilt.

Oh, and if you trip MK with Dtilt, don't bother trying to dash grab him. He rools too far, and you're going to whiff the grab, then get punished.

I love Kirby man, if I didn't I would just be playing MK right now. I've said before that MK is a better version of Kirby in almost every conceivable way, but I stick with Kirby. He has no glaring weaknesses that can't be overcome with skill, but I sincerely think that some of you are letting this cloud your judgment when deciding the rating for this obviously bad matchup. Anything is possible but when we have to work 10x harder to kill a character than they do then that is the definition of a bad matchup.

Even though is reality, I see MK as having to work harder for straight kills, and much easier for edgeguarding/gimping kills.

I still say 35/65 Meta Knight with matchup experience. It may have been 45/55 in 2008 but not anymore.

And I still disagree.

no offense but what are you talking about

Thats litterally how many kill moves kirby has to metaknight in a real match

don't tell me your gonna bust out your stone form as a kill move
qft

MK has wayy more klling moves than 6 hes just mentioning the most dominate ones

hell metaknight's down b is a kill move >.<

Kirby can only really string attacks on a good mk from about 0-30% if done correctly and precisely and

have you faced a metaknight because they can combo anyway in fact the floatier the better in metaknight's case >.>


And i stated this in the beginning of the discussion the is a HUGE uphill battle for kirby in every way this is litterally working 10x harder compared to metaknight's Dair camping

You'd be surprised at how often I've mindgamed good players into stone kills. That being said, it is nowhere near reliable and shouldn't be brought into a matchup discussion.

We also have more kill moves (as mentioned earlier in the post), and if you only want to discuss dominant kill moves, MK really only has three: Dsmash, Nair and SL. Sure, Glide attack, Fsmash, Utilt, DC, DR and tornado can all kill, but they won't. That's just not what will be killing us most of the time in this matchup if we know how to play it right. Hell, we could kill at like 50-70% with grounded hammer, perhaps less, but there's no point in mentioning it if it'll only happen once in a blue moon.



Also, I think Kirby has the better CPs, though I could be wrong on that (not that it affects the matchup much.).

 

[|RK|]

I'm not actually taking it that seriously. Just noted it because of... that dead topic...

Anyways, let's not derail this anymore. And I don't see how there's any way that it can be 65:35. Not even. More like 43:57. Which rounds to 60:40, anyways.

EDIT: Or lower, but I've yet to see Viper's post.

BTW, what exactly has changed about Meta-Knight that's increased the matchup?

 

[Lord Viper]

And we need more MK mains in here, seriously.

☆ Strongly agree. I've only seen two Meta Knight's here, and only one had a good post. ☆

☆ Also, still don't see this match up is all that hard since Meta Knight can almost always be caught in a grab combo to 30%+ nearly all the time when you grab him at around 0%. I mean it's not really hard to perfect shield attacks right? If you master that, then you can counter Meta Knight after the finshing attack that he does, mostly D-Smash, Up-B second attack, and N-Air attacks and punish them with a grab or quick attacks like F-Air, N-Air etc. ☆

☆ I won't give off my 100% post of this match up yet since I don't have enough time to tell the whole thing yet, and since I'm going to a tourney that might have Judged there, I'll get more info from there as well. Right now, my current thought is still 45/55 Meta Knight. ☆

 

[:mad:]

I think it's more or less Meta Knight's becoming a larger threat. With our ever-decreasing metagame and Meta Knight still being on top, I imagine it's harder for Kirby to prosper.

And they might be learning the MU.

And he can kill ridiculously early and can't be gimped.

And he has a sword.

 

[Retroend]

I'm disappointed in all of you who claim that people saying 55:45 are just too prideful. You are making gross generalizations on what you have no proof of stop this now. I'm gonna go get some MKs in here if possible and I'll ask Chu's opinion.

yea, how do they even know if we're too prideful? i think those that play meta are too prideful just because he's broken overall and (like i said earlier) think he is god like. you don't just run into meta and start launching attacks, hoping that they hit. you have to time your moves, space when neccessary and look for an oppurtunity to strike. if i'm not mistaken, almost every character has to do the exact same thing against this guy.

Don't really think Chu cares. At the end of the day, Kirby still loses to Meta Knight. You're arguing minimal ratios when it's really not any worse than 60:40. That's exactly what Meta Knight MU discussions are. Talking about how you LOSE to him.

and like i said, metas are too prideful, not us. yes meta has an advantage over kirby, but that doesn't mean he'll win all the time! you make it sound like kirby has little or no chance against mk, and that just sounds ridiculous. kirby has options and if he is used correctly, he can use those options to at least hold his own against mk. again, you make it sound like kirby can't win.

The matchup is 40-60. >_>

This becomes easier to see when you realize MK is just a better version of Kirby. (Almost) Everything Kirby can do, MK can do better and with safer, better options.

yea, thank you sakurai for being such a biased dumb@ss with this game. seriously, kirby is the main character of his series, not meta. sakurai's more stupid than i thought if he thinks this game is even close to balanced.

I still believe it's lower than 65:35, Allied. The matches aren't THAT difficult, and you'd find yourself doing far better than most of the cast against MK if you are conscious about MK's options, and your own mistakes. As long as you know what MK might do in a situation then you can retaliate appropriately (sure, our airdodge isn't reliable thanks to MK's uair, but it does help when we're near the floor... airdodge>shield and you're back onstage, if you're fearing for any approach in MK's part if you're close to the floor).

Seriously, I can't see the 65:35, and I don't know what you guys mean by "uphill battle"... To me, it's just like any other matchup (even Lucario/Marth/G&W): be aware of what he's capable of doing to you, and block/evade/counter the options they choose to do. It's all about knowing what MK can do to Kirby in the situations you'll find yourself in.

seriously, its not that hard. i agree with you. if you know the options of mk, and you know how to use your own options against him, you should be able to hold your own. i'll go with 60-40 since everyone's saying thats what it is now, but i believe it still sounds ridiculous.

 

[thrillagorilla]

30% off of a single grab, Viper? Do your Metaknight players not know how to SDI? I can get out as soon as the u-air with DK for crying out loud. SDI+jump will get you out of most grab combos fairly easily, people just don't seem to do it in other states outside of Oregon for some reason. You try that on our top DeDeDe and I'm willing to bet you he can get out of it too.

 

[momochuu]

Don't even bother Forward Throwing MK. He has so many ways to punish it, it's ridiculous. IIRC he can NAir you out of it. >_>

At least you can Down Throw him. That might lead into something...maybe. Most "Kirby stuff" that we can do on other characters just doesn't work on MK.

Edit: By "it" I meant FThrow to UpAir.

 

[:mad:]

iirc, Uair's just as fast, if not faster than Nair. MK HAS no slow aerial with the exception of a laggy Bair.
If you Fthrow him, you MIGHT get one Uair, but you're better off just shielding after.

Something that might work once is Dthrow -> Pivot-grab -> throw. We Marios tend to do it to anyone that attempts to punish.

 

[Kewkky]

You try that on our top DeDeDe and I'm willing to bet you he can get out of it too.

As sad as it makes me... yes, even DDDs can get out of the grab combo. My DDD-maining friend does that all the time.

 

[:mad:]

Keep in mind with Kirby, nothing's guaranteed. I don't think it's really a big loss if you lose one pseudo-combo.

 

[Kewkky]

iirc, Uair's just as fast, if not faster than Nair. MK HAS no slow aerial with the exception of a laggy Bair.
If you Fthrow him, you MIGHT get one Uair, but you're better off just shielding after.

Agreed 100%. Adapt to doing this, then once the MK sees that you're wasting time shielding and starts getting smarter, do the whole grab combo... He won't expect it, I've done it countless times!

Something that might work once is Dthrow -> Pivot-grab -> throw. We Marios tend to do it to anyone that attempts to punish.

Nope. He can dair you when you're trying to do the pivot grab. I've tried.

 

[Lord Viper]

30% off of a single grab, Viper? Do your Metaknight players not know how to SDI? I can get out as soon as the u-air with DK for crying out loud. SDI+jump will get you out of most grab combos fairly easily, people just don't seem to do it in other states outside of Oregon for some reason. You try that on our top DeDeDe and I'm willing to bet you he can get out of it too.

☆ I'm not talking about U-Air, I mean F-Air has much more range after you grab them, and you have the chance to grab anyone lower than 12% again. Unless your Marth, or very slow with F-Air, it won't connect and either punishment or escapement will happen. ☆

 

[thrillagorilla]

Agreed 100%. Adapt to doing this, then once the MK sees that you're wasting time shielding and starts getting smarter, do the whole grab combo... He won't expect it, I've done it countless times!

... or he could escape and not deal with it. Then he can dair camp until he finds a place to land, resetting it to neutral positions. Resetting to neutral positions is favorable to him, not us, so...

In any case, I'd like to point out that 40-60 is still winnable. Its just an indication of the options we have available to us compared to the opponent. Metaknight has more and better ones, so he gets the nod. Really, we all agree with the idea that MK has the advantage, and none of us (I hope) think that we go even with Metaknight, which would be more of the 45-55 or 50-50 ratio.

Edit: @Viper: He can escape it and do what I listed above. Also, his nair comes out too fast if he decides to try it. There really isn't much we can do in that situation if the Metaknight knows what to do.

 

[:mad:]

Then do the obvious. Dthrow -> Shield -> Regrab -> Uthrow.

 

[Asdioh]

I'd like to say I'm proud of the Kirby mains that are swallowing their Kirby pride and calling it like it is (though I'm not particularly impressed by the Sonic discussion... I'll play Tudios later this month and see what Kirby can and can't do against the blue blur).

Most everything that can be said has been said, save that people need to stop assuming that they can outsmart their opponent every time. Its not that Kirby doesn't have the tools to punish Metaknight. He does. But the fact that the only way Kirby can reliably get damage in against a Metaknight that knows how to handle the MU is punish means that we are at a disadvantage. We have no consistent way of dealing damage or leading into a KO move versus Metaknight with the tools we have. Bairs, sliding shield grabs, you name it and Metaknight has a way to counter it or do it better. We have to wait for the opportunity, and even then, a Metaknight player can do the exact same thing.

I think this was said, but I'll re-state it. We are not the only ones who can bait. Metaknights can do this just as well as we can. If they aren't willing to change their style of play as the MU calls for, then its their own fault as players and not the character's inherent attributes.

I'm agreeing with t1mmy on the 40-60 Metaknight favor. (He's said 35-65 to me before, though. I'm not sure what he thinks now that he's played M2K and Tyrant) We can punish Metaknight much better than some characters, but we have to rely on mindgames if we are going to do any damage in this MU. This simple fact in and of itself should make the MU 40-60.

I'm glad you understand.

have u taken into account the reprecussions that insue when the mk is used right and knows his kirby opponent?...

You too.

There is more stuff that I could reply to but if you read any part of my post let it be this part...
It all boils down to the simple fact that Meta Knight has ~5 options for our 1.

This is similar to what I've been saying.

Let's say Kirby and MK are both in the air. What are Kirby's best options?

Bair. Airdodge (easily punished by MK)

What are MK's best options?

Fair. Dair. Uair. Bair. Nair. Airdodge. Shuttle Loop. Tornado (depending on position). All great moves that compete with Kirby's best.


Now...on the ground. Kirby's options:

Shield, spotdodge, rolldodge, grab, maybe Fsmash. Utilt if he's somehow right next to MK. Approach with an aerial.

MK's options:

Shield, spotdodge, rolldodge, grab, Ftilt, Dtilt, Dsmash, Fsmash, Tornado (if you're at a position that it would be difficult to get Fsmashed out of ) dair camp, approach with another aerial...and of course, Grounded Shuttle Loop, which beats ALL of Kirby's previously mentioned options.

By the way....about landing Stone when he's Gliding? If you do manage to predict him to that extent, all he has to do is use Glide Attack and it will clash with Stone, I think regardless of where he is when he attacks. He will not take damage. I'm about 90% sure of this.

Also, I realize that Tornado doesn't do much damage. I'm simply saying that it can be easily used to screw us up.

You guys are supposed to be looking at attributes of each character in the matchup, you're bringing the players into it too much.

MK
simply
has
better
tools.

Let's look at it this way. Let's compare Kirby edgeguarding MK to MK edgeguarding Kirby. Let's say the MK or the Kirby is trying to recover to Final Destination from the bottom right corner near the blastzone, and the other character is offstage trying to edgeguard/gimp the other. I think most reasonable people would agree that it's even, or in MK's advantage, in either situation. I mean, Dair will beat anything Kirby tries to do while he's recovering. He can airdodge, but it's slow compared to MK's fast moves, so he can just Dair you again. If MK is the one recovering, he can beat your Dair with Uair, he can trade hits with Bair or airdodge it, and more importantly, he can Drill Rush to go through practically any attack to recover. If you use Stone, he can Drill rush through it (I think...I know I've landed DIRECTLY on MK before while he used DR and it didn't phase him) or he can clank with Glide Attack, or he can simply airdodge past it.

Just think of all the advantages MK has in this situation. Why does he have advantages? Because when one character is forced to recover and the other is trying to stop him, the characters are forced to attack each other head on. "Baiting" and "mindgames" don't take as much effect here, and you can clearly see that MK has the advantage.

It's a weird example, and it's kind of hard to explain, but I'm trying to get you guys to see that when Kirby and MK are directly compared, MK simply has the advantage @_@

60:40 Meta Knight.


edit: oh yeah, dthrow->uptilt at 0% works I think. I know I can escape the utilt when I'm playing as Kirby, but as MK I can't seem to escape it. Anyway, Dthrow->uptilt or Dthrow->shield and regrab, or simply utilt->utilt->Bair work well on MK at low percentages. That's one good thing we have going for us.

Though theoretically, we can't even touch MK

 

[momochuu]

☆ I'm not talking about U-Air, I mean F-Air has much more range after you grab them, and you have the chance to grab anyone lower than 12% again. Unless your Marth, or very slow with F-Air, it won't connect and either punishment or escapement will happen. ☆

Wait, I'm not getting this. Are you saying F-Throw to FAir? 'Cause that sounds much more punishable than most things you can do out of FThrow.

 

[:mad:]

Agreed with everything Asdioh said. Smart man.

Not being able to gimp or really even edgeguard Meta Knight makes it harder for Kirby. Meta Knight, on the other hand, can Dair, Nair, and Shuttle Loop us all day. Be wary when recovering, if he's under you, expect a shuttle loop.

 

[Black_Heretic]

Snakes are currently discussing Kirby on our matchup and we would love your guys input :D

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237133

 

[|RK|]

Our grab is longer but slower

We fall slower and we have better horizontal air speed.

What can we do with this (although MK is faster, has a faster airdodge, we almost the same jump height as him, almost same weight, etc...)?

 

[momochuu]

I think almost everything you just said is wrong.

 

[:mad:]

There's not a lot we can do. There's only a slight difference. If we had Wario, Jigglypuff, or Kirby's horizontal air speed, it'd make this matchup that much better.

Sorry to say, but we're still slow in the air.

 

[t!MmY]

40-60, MK's favor.

 

[|RK|]

I think almost everything you just said is wrong.

Nope.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236133

 

[:mad:]

Horizontal Aerial Speed

"D Class"
Ganondorf - 2.62
Kirby - 2.59
Sheik - 2.57
Olimar - 2.55
Diddy Kong - 2.50
Link - 2.45

"F Class"
Meta Knight - 2.35
Ivysaur - 2.32
Ice Climbers - 2.32
Luigi - 2.29
King Dedede - 2.10

Who cares, RK?

 

[Lovely]

Snakes are currently discussing Kirby on our matchup and we would love your guys input :D

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237133

As long as some Kirby mains pay a visit there, I would, but I don't even know the match up of Snake vs Kirby that well, I think Snake is harder than Meta Knight but I guess some people can think other wise.

40-60, MK's favor.

Since your T!Mmy and know a lot about Kirby, can you explain it in more detail please. ^_^

 

[:mad:]

We're arguing over such trvial matters, this is why page numbers are a bad idea. Instead of adding just page numbers, can you do some writeups on the front page?

 

[|RK|]

Who cares, RK?

I'm just saying that we do. I figure with proper statistics, discussing this matchup on paper can go even further...

Since your T!Mmy and know a lot about Kirby, can you explain it in more detail please. ^_^ [/QUOTE]

"Knew" is the proper term. He's just a washed up MK traitor now.

No, jkjk, I know he mains all three.

 

[Kewkky]

There's not a lot we can do. There's only a slight difference. If we had Wario, Jigglypuff, or Kirby's horizontal air speed, it'd make this matchup that much better.

Sorry to say, but we're still slow in the air.

If we had Wario's horizontal movement, I wouldn't see a reason for me to main any other characters besides Kirby. The one thing that I admire about Wario is his aerial dominance, and if Kirby has his speed PLUS four multiple jumps... Kirby just got broken.

 

[thrillagorilla]

I'm just saying that we do. I figure with proper statistics, discussing this matchup on paper can go even further...

RK, if the differences are that small, then whats the point? Its kind of like saying "OK, Bowser runs faster than a lot of character in the game, so how can we take advantage of that?" It doesn't mean anything unless we take their attacks and ours into account on top of it. At the end of the day, Metaknights sword is still better than most of what we have, even if we are VERY SLIGHTLY faster in the air. Besides, he is still WAY faster on the ground, and has a glide, tornado and dimensional cape to help out with the slower airspeed.

"Knew" is the proper term. He's just a washed up MK traitor now.

No, jkjk, I know he mains all three.

Bad joke is bad. For shame, RK, for shame.

Edit: @Kewkky: Couldn't agree with you more. IDK about needing more jumps though, lol.

 

[:mad:]

Bowser runs faster than a lot of character in the game? You might be onto something...

 

[|RK|]

RK, if the differences are that small, then whats the point? Its kind of like saying "OK, Bowser runs faster than a lot of character in the game, so how can we take advantage of that?" It doesn't mean anything unless we take their attacks and ours into account on top of it. At the end of the day, Metaknights sword is still better than most of what we have, even if we are VERY SLIGHTLY faster in the air. Besides, he is still WAY faster on the ground, and has a glide, tornado and dimensional cape to help out with the slower airspeed.

Ok, ok, I just thought it would be interesting and possibly helpful... *sigh*

*Puts on coat and hat*

 

[Retroend]

40-60, MK's favor.

i still can't believe you, t!mmy

I'm just saying that we do. I figure with proper statistics, discussing this matchup on paper can go even further...

Since your T!Mmy and know a lot about Kirby, can you explain it in more detail please. ^_^

"Knew" is the proper term. He's just a washed up MK traitor now.

No, jkjk, I know he mains all three.[/QUOTE]

not a good way to say it. he's not a traitor of course, but i think he might be giving meta too much credit.

If we had Wario's horizontal movement, I wouldn't see a reason for me to main any other characters besides Kirby. The one thing that I admire about Wario is his aerial dominance, and if Kirby has his speed PLUS mour multiple jumps... Kirby just got broken.

which why i wonder how a fat@ss like him can even move through the air that quick. its not right.

 

[:mad:]

Retro. You're a stranger to sarcasm and "jkjk", right?

which why i wonder how a fat@ss like him can even move through the air that quick. its not right.

no u.

 

[|RK|]

Actually, if Kirby's Swallow had less starting and ending lag, he'd be broken as well. Hold B. So many options for characters without projectiles are instantly destroyed.

 

[Retroend]

Retro. You're a stranger to sarcasm and "jkjk", right?



no u.

sadly, i have a hard time detecting saercasm.

 

[:mad:]

This isn't the place to discuss "what if"s, RK. Plenty of characters have attacks that can get past his inhale.

 

[momochuu]

Mannnn. I'm honestly afraid to leave you guys alone for two hours.

 

[|RK|]

This isn't the place to discuss "what if"s, RK. Plenty of characters have attacks that can get past his inhale.

But they still have to change their strategy...

And sorry, lol, I saw Kewkky's post quted and he was talking about if we had Wario's horizontal aerial movement speed and got sidetracked...

And I posted that data because I figured the on paper stuff... I mean, in comparison, it shouldn't be that hard to recover against an MK. Giant Swing back, and you have a chance of hitting him.

 

[:mad:]

Don't worry, Bunny. We'll be fine by ourselves. Xiivi was never around and we got along.

@RK - Gimping Meta Knight will most likely never happen. Gimping Kirby can happen once or twice a set.

 

[|RK|]

Don't worry, Bunny. We'll be fine by ourselves. Xiivi was never around and we got along.

@RK - Gimping Meta Knight will most likely never happen. Gimping Kirby can happen once or twice a set.

But it's still pretty darn hard to gimp a good Kirby. Once a set is more likely. And if you suicide you can gimp an MK. As in just keep hitting him on the way down. If you're Falco just lock him on the way down.

Shame. Only reliable way to kill an MK requires death...