Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

[fromundaman]

See? That's why I suck at MU's. Some people say it's about character's movesets, others say it's about player skills, and a select few point out to the in-between. And everytime I type something, I'm wrong and get corrected in the sense that "You must be CRAZY! You obviously have no idea how this works, blah blah blah MU's aren't like that"

You know, if you look over the last matchup thread, you'll see that just because you're well enough known and/or good at the game, it doesn't necessarily make you right about a matchup. Not to take away from T!mmy, but I personally think he was wrong about a lot of those past matchups we did. Of course, considering how old they were, it may just be that I can't remember the details of the metagame at the time. *shrugs*

Also, a big part of matchups is debating and explaining.

 

[TrIkZ]

If meta knight is going to be discussed why not from top to bottom? like people stated in the beginning.
Sense most tournaments are nothing but those S Class.

 

[momochuu]

I vote for Metaknight. I love that matchup.

 

[:mad:]

I'm gonna laugh when it's Meta Knight and Bunny doesn't even show up.

 

[T-nuts]

i vote for olimar...or luigi...or diddy.

 

[:mad:]

I hate that A1loin is in charge of this. The fact that we have to vote is just stupid.

JUST DO ZELDA NOW.

 

[A1lion835]

I hate that the government is in charge of this. The fact that we have to vote is just stupid.

JUST ELECT MCCAIN NOW.

I'm not making you guys vote...if you want me to decide all the matchups we'll discuss then fine, I will. Just giving you guys a time to put in your thoughts.

 

[:mad:]

Don't put it into a voting system. Just go with what we say, don't make it official. Allied was all "let's do Zelda after this."

So let's do Zelda.

 

[|RK|]

Well, aren't WE against democracy? Leave my country, now. You can go to China

But, I'm going for Zelda anyways.

 

[Triple R]

I'll vote for meta knight. I like the top to bottom idea.

 

[momochuu]

We've been going on about what matchup to discuss for like 2 pages now. Just pick a character.

 

[:mad:]

This is gonna go way too slow if A1's in charge.

Doesn't he like, play Brawl once a month? If that.

Edit: Oh god no. Not that again, please don't update the OP like that. Pleaseeeeeeee don't take the easy way out.

 

[RoflWafflez]

I vote for Straked in charge? Idk...hurry up pl0x

 

[:mad:]

I'm just fine with A1 running the thread so long as he listens to our ideas.

Viper or Asdioh, too, but we might as well just go with it.

 

[fromundaman]

If meta knight is going to be discussed why not from top to bottom? like people stated in the beginning.
Sense most tournaments are nothing but those S Class.

Well, I can tell you don't live in the MW...


Also, god**** people, stop *****in'! I mean come on, we've only spent 2 days so far between matchups... We've gone much longer than this before.

 

[|RK|]

I'm just fine with A1 running the thread so long as he listens to our ideas.

Viper or Asdioh, too, but we might as well just go with it.

So long as he knows who's in charge, he an pretend to be in power?

Political corruption much?

Geez, already hating on the steak sauce lion.

Again, ZELDA.

 

[Xiivi]

Just discuss MK, that gets my vote.

And A1, try to say something like "first to 3 votes is who we discuss" in the future. It will prevent a lot of what we have going on right now.

 

[A1lion835]

Just discuss MK, that gets my vote.

And A1, try to say something like "first to 3 votes is who we discuss" in the future. It will prevent a lot of what we have going on right now.

We're discussing mk! AND GOD, WHY DO YOU ALL HATE ON ME IN THE HOURS I'M AT SCHOOL! I RESPECT UR OPINIONS, WHAT WAS THE "EASY WAY OUT" ON THE OP STRAKED, YES XIIVI, I WILL IN THE FUTURE.

*deep breath* it helped to get that out. Why do you hate me though D:

 

[Tero.]

Sup guys,

Since someone asked for MK input here we go:

Kirby is an overall good character with good ground game (good grab range, **** fsmash), good air game (mainly bair) and good edeguarding.
And if the Kirby knows how to play the MU it's going to be really hard for us, because you have good options to counter many of our overused attacks.

Your Bair has insane priority and can go through our aerials, fsmash is too good and goes through tornado.

Your main tools in this MU are:
- Bair to counter aerial approaches
- Fsmash to counter Tornado
- Grabs to rack up damage

You can edgeguard us pretty well and probably better than most of the cast.
Edeguard Up-B's with Bair and Nados with Fsmash.

Our safest option is to Side B sweetspot the edge, so be prepared for that after you hit the MK out of UpB/Nado.

MK's ground game is the main problem in this MU, because he can Ftilt you out of Bair approaches. Campy MK's can be a pain because approaching is hard, if they are to aggressive you can **** them with Bairs though.

Kirby can kill as at lower percentages because of that ridiculous good fsmash, MK has the advantage of range, I'll say this MU is slightly in MK's favor, almost even tho.

55:45 MK

Also I <3 Kirby and I play both characters.

 

[Allied]

Prepare for a wall of text on how to defeat metaknight with videos
it will be ready in prolly an hour
before i insert this wall of text i will say the matchup is 57:43 MK
and i will explain this
^_^

 

[Allied]

Well lets start

Kirby vs Metaknight 55:45 IMO 57:43 in Metaknight's favor

Lets discuss why its in metaknights favor
i'll give a brief overview of his pros + cons
against kirby

Pros

*Tornado is excellent at shield pressuring kirby which can lead to a array of attacks
* Due to Kirby's slow aieral movement it makes this easy for metaknight to edgeguard kirby
* Kirby can find himself overwhelmed against a good metaknight
* Metaknight's Recovery in many different ways makes him unpredictable thus extremely difficult to edgeguard and impossible to gimp
*If edgeguarded metaknight can counteredgeguard which can lead to a easy stage spike to opposing player using kirby can an easy gimp
* Lagless Aieral Attacks can create a shield which makes it impossible for the kirby to breech through
* Kirby's only reliable move that goes through SOME of metaknights attacks (which is bair) goes stale quickly making its sometimes extremely hard to kill a metaknight
* UPB and Downair can gimp kirby easy
* Metaknight's ground game is better than kirby's
* Metaknight's Airgame is better than kirby
* Metaknight Recovery is better than kirby
* Metaknight's Gimping is better than kirby


Cons

* Light Weight for easy fresh Bair + Fsmash kills
* No projectiles
* weak grab game compared to kirby
* Metaknight is gay


Ok thats most of the pros and cons (that matter at least)

Now i have found that facing metaknight is an extremely hard uphill battle for kirby due to his relentless assault of attacks also that he can save his killing moves to be fresh when he needs a quick kill not to mention hes one of the best gimpers in the game

hes an example of a amazing metaknight vs kirby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ivnUh0BL8

Now if you noticed in the video
the number 1 thing metaknights love is
punishing mistakes

The metaknight is going to keep extremely good spaced aierals + attacks keeping you pressured for your shield to go down and during such intense pressure you ARE going to make a mistake

To fight off the metaknight you again must seek his mistakes and out read him and use an extreme amount of mindgames

Kirby with great mindgames will win this match there is no doubt which means every once in a while you should as a kirby player throw out things that the metaknight would never expect so you should think outside of the box.

You also must learn metaknight inside and out if you wish to beat him learning his higher priority moves to lower priority moves looking for him making a mistake and watch which moves he does so that way you can avoid them and counter

to beat a pro metaknight the #1 thing you definitally need to do is PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!

this is a crazy matchup that you will find yourself losing alot unless you master it

and if your a fairly new kirby you also have to make sure you master your characters boundary and limits as well and the ins and outs of kirby so you will find this matchup frusterating

the one thing i stress that you abuse in this matchup is kirby's superior grab game

Downthrow to Uptilt at lower percentages
Gonzo Combos work here as well

and try to make yourself as unpredictable as possible because once the metaknight catches on to what your tactics are

You will not survive

As for my matchup being 57:43 in metaknights favor

i've faced alot of metaknights and i've seen the metaknight metagame improve since the last matchup discussion

i feel metaknight has improved to the point of the matchup being 60:40 but its not quite there yet while i definitally do not believe its 55:45 in Metaknights favor i feel if a metaknight is experienced enough they can easily take down said kirby especially if they practice the matchup

so i decided to meet in the middle
if you think not lets debate ^_^
my ratio stands though
57:43 Metaknights Favor

 

[Kewkky]

kirby's fsmash goes through MK's aerial SL, sideB, and Tornado. His bair is fast enough to punish the minimal lag between MK's attacks. Kirby's dair can hit MK out of an aerial SL if you hit the body, and also can hit MK out of his sideB if you hit MK's body. Powershield>dthrow to all of MK's ground options works wonders. Ftilt can be used to gain space between Kirby and MK. Pummels and dthrows can refresh our bairs so they can kill, as well as our fsmashes.

Just throwing in random tidbits of info.

Oh, and here's a video, I guess. I was SUPPOSED to have another one, but the guy won't online and send me it through WiFi!

You guys decide the numbers and stuff, I'm just providing a view from Kirby's side.

 

[Allied]

Sup guys,

Since someone asked for MK input here we go:

Kirby is an overall good character with good ground game (good grab range, **** fsmash), good air game (mainly bair) and good edeguarding.
And if the Kirby knows how to play the MU it's going to be really hard for us, because you have good options to counter many of our overused attacks.

Your Bair has insane priority and can go through our aerials, fsmash is too good and goes through tornado.

Your main tools in this MU are:
- Bair to counter aerial approaches
- Fsmash to counter Tornado
- Grabs to rack up damage

You can edgeguard us pretty well and probably better than most of the cast.
Edeguard Up-B's with Bair and Nados with Fsmash.

Our safest option is to Side B sweetspot the edge, so be prepared for that after you hit the MK out of UpB/Nado.

MK's ground game is the main problem in this MU, because he can Ftilt you out of Bair approaches. Campy MK's can be a pain because approaching is hard, if they are to aggressive you can **** them with Bairs though.

Kirby can kill as at lower percentages because of that ridiculous good fsmash, MK has the advantage of range, I'll say this MU is slightly in MK's favor, almost even tho.

55:45 MK

Also I <3 Kirby and I play both characters.

To be completely honest some of this is only true
Bair doesn't have THAT great of a priority

and i wouldn't be caught dead edgeguarding against a PRO metaknight player
it would be an easy countergimp if done so

however he is right about campy metaknights and their ground game
but what hes trying to say is Bair is kirby's cure all which is not true you cannot let bair go stale then it sucks and said kirby player can find himself in a tight spot
0_o

and sure kirby can kill metaknight at extremely low percentages but then again whens the last time the metaknight made the mistake of not power shielding it to punish it?

i looks good on paper but imagine yourself against mew2king or dojo?

 

[Retroend]

so we're discussing meta then. ok then i'll have more to give later, in drawing class right now. :/

 

[MK26]

oh god my eyes
lion change the blue font in the op to royalblue

Metaknight?
Damm i moderate matchup threads i dont contribute to them...

 

[DC]

God **** I hate when people say this matchup is close to even. The only time this matchup is near even is if the Meta Knight has no Kirby experience at all, some things that work in other MK matchups won't work in the Kirby matchup obviously but with some knowledge I'd still say the matchup is 35/65 (in MKs favor).

Kirbys only 2 reliable approaches in this matchup are bair and shieldgrab (lol not just this matchup, but especially this one.) On the ground MK's ftilt outranges/prioritizes everything we have, including our ftilt and dtilt, I believe it clanks with fsmash, giving him the ability to ftilt again, dsmash or shuttle loop while we are still in ending lag. If the ftilt isn't powershielded he has enough time to dsmash or shuttle loop, if it is powershielded it's still possible for him to finish the other two hits of ftilt or dsmash/SL.

In the air I do believe our bair beats his fair (though dependant on spacing) but rising dair camping is a pain. Spaced perfectly there is not much we can do about rising dairs. It out prioritizes our bair (not to mention comes out faster). The generally recommended strategy is to count their jumps and wait for them to land but like I said, for any MK with an inkling of matchup exp it's easy to react to what a Kirby is doing. If it's obvious they are staying within range to punish your landing lag then they can land with tornado. YES I know, "but fsmash beats tornado blah blah," like I said, a MK can react to a Kirby attempting to space a fsmash (which reminds me... I hope you guys still aren't doing that whole 'walk backwards then fmash forward' thing... lmao) and land farther away.

Dair camping simpified: If they are too close land with tornado, if they are farther away just land, the landing lag in minimal enough for Kirby not too be able to run up to you and punish.

Off the stage any experienced MK will follow you with dairs. Want a fun fact? If you get hit with ONE dair off the stage then you ARE REQUIRED to use final cutter to recover. A spaced dair off the stage is extremely hard to counter. If you recover high you run the risk of getting hit with a SL.

Trying to edgeguard MK? The second you take a second jump off the stage MK gets free recovery with tornado or drill rush. Recovering with SL is not as useful in this matchup so that's an easy way to tell if an MK is experienced in the matchup or not.

Videos could expain this better than words but unfortunately I don't have any recent ones. I'll try to get some asap because I do know quite a few of the best MKs in the state of Florida.

My experience:
Seibrik (#1 power ranked in FL, one of my training partners)
Red Halberd (not power ranked but probably the best MK in FL AT THIS MATCHUP..., sorry Seibrik lol)
Master Raven (not power ranked in FL but probably in the top 5 MKs)
Other assorted MKs around FL, I go to tournies all over the state.

This match up might have been 45/55 in 2008 but the little tricks and advantages we had over players with little experience is seriously fading. I hate to not have confidence in my character but MK is simply a faster Kirby with more range, knockback and recovery... aka a better version of Kirby. I'll try to get some of my MK friends in here to put in their two cents.

Verdict: 35/65 MK, not unbeatable but you **** sure better not make any mistakes.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

God **** I hate when people say this matchup is close to even. The only time this matchup is near even is if the Meta Knight has no Kirby experience at all, some things that work in other MK matchups won't work in the Kirby matchup obviously but with some knowledge I'd still say the matchup is 35/65 (in MKs favor).

Kirbys only 2 reliable approaches in this matchup are bair and shieldgrab (lol not just this matchup, but especially this one.) On the ground MK's ftilt outranges/prioritizes everything we have, including our ftilt and dtilt, I believe it clanks with fsmash, giving him the ability to ftilt again, dsmash or shuttle loop while we are still in ending lag. If the ftilt isn't powershielded he has enough time to dsmash or shuttle loop, if it is powershielded it's still possible for him to finish the other two hits of ftilt or dsmash/SL.

In the air I do believe our bair beats his fair (though dependant on spacing) but rising dair camping is a pain. Spaced perfectly there is not much we can do about rising dairs. It out prioritizes our bair (not to mention comes out faster). The generally recommended strategy is to count their jumps and wait for them to land but like I said, for any MK with an inkling of matchup exp it's easy to react to what a Kirby is doing. If it's obvious they are staying within range to punish your landing lag then they can land with tornado. YES I know, "but fsmash beats tornado blah blah," like I said, a MK can react to a Kirby attempting to space a fsmash (which reminds me... I hope you guys still aren't doing that whole 'walk backwards then fmash forward' thing... lmao) and land farther away.

Dair camping simpified: If they are too close land with tornado, if they are farther away just land, the landing lag in minimal enough for Kirby not too be able to run up to you and punish.

Off the stage any experienced MK will follow you with dairs. Want a fun fact? If you get hit with ONE dair off the stage then you ARE REQUIRED to use final cutter to recover. A spaced dair off the stage is extremely hard to counter. If you recover high you run the risk of getting hit with a SL.

Trying to edgeguard MK? The second you take a second jump off the stage MK gets free recovery with tornado or drill rush. Recovering with SL is not as useful in this matchup so that's an easy way to tell if an MK is experienced in the matchup or not.

Videos could expain this better than words but unfortunately I don't have any recent ones. I'll try to get some asap because I do know quite a few of the best MKs in the state of Florida.

My experience:
Seibrik (#1 power ranked in FL, one of my training partners)
Red Halberd (not power ranked but probably the best MK in FL, sorry Seibrik lol)
Master Raven (not power ranked in FL but probably in the top 5 MKs)
Other assorted MKs around FL, I go to tournies all over the state.

This match up might have been 45/55 in 2008 but the little tricks and advantages we had over players with little experience is seriously fading. I hate to not have confidence in my character but MK is simply a faster Kirby with more range, knockback and recovery... aka a better version of Kirby. I'll try to get some of my MK friends in here to put in their two cents.

Verdict: 35/65 MK, not unbeatable but you **** sure better not make any mistakes.

My name is Seibrik and I approve this message.


P.S. If mk holds shield kirby can do basically nothing, considering he run grabs gets owned by SL OOS, and same with spaced bairs.

Fun fact.

If kirby shields a grounded SL, the best punish he gets is a bair or uair.... thats ALMOST scary

 

[CO18]

mk ***** kirby really imo too

 

[|RK|]

Hey, DC, as a note, just read SuSa's thread and stop using your experiences. They don't matter, no offense.

 

[Kewkky]

All of the 3 last posts (before RK Joker) are close to horrible. I couldn't disagree more, seriously. I find the matchup close to even. If you have good reaction speed, battles against MK aren't supposed to be as horrible as you guys make them to be. Oh, and... MK's ftilt doesn't clank with Kirby's fsmash, and if MK holds shield, kirby can easily get a grab in, or he could also move away if he's at a dangerous % (enough to get SL'd to death).

Kirby can shieldgrab almost every ground approach MK dares to do, except his own grab, and that can be maneuvered. Spaced aerials which have their spacing reset because of a Kirby running in and powershielding (fairs/low dairs) can also be grabbed. Kirby can grab MK out of his tornado. Fsmash breaks all of MK's specials except grounded SL, and only because of MK's invincibility frames. Kirby's bair can compete with MK's range, and it's also easily refreshed by pummeling+dthrowing (or any other attack) the MK. MK can't edgeguard Kirby as well as he can edgeguard other characters, thanks to Kirby being light and having multiple jumps (unlike DDD, his weight and upB are his problems when he's trying to recover). Kirby's speed is decent enough to keep a safe distance from MK in case he decides to go on the defensive. He can heavily punish badly spaced MK moves. We might never get an inhale in (I never even try anyways, MK's range destroys Kirby's inhale range), but we don't depend on inhale. And kirby's utilt, ftilt and dtilt have deceiving range that can hit an MK who doesn't realize the hitbox extends as far as it does (or who doesn't know utilts can be spammed).

Plus, I have plenty of Mk experience. Not like ti matters when i say this, anyone can say "Oh, but you probably haven't played top-level MKs". Well, the top level MK in PR (HDL) retired a year ago, and i never got to play him... but I HAVE been playing against the 2nd highest MK in PR (and a few others), and luckily, he lives near me so we play quite often. And he and me both agree Kirby is a ***** to fight when you're using MK (remember he's gained Kirby matchup experience by fighting me as much as i've gained by fighting him... And i still don't see the 65:35).

 

[Allied]

Good ****ing **** DC i was going to say that matchup but i felt it was too harsh for everybody

forget 57:43 i agree with DC all day

<333333333333333333333

Rep flordia son

 

[MK26]

Seibrik

My name is Seibrik and I approve this message.

Cactuar?

======

On an unrelated note, the trick to not geting hit by a shuttle loop oos is NOT APPROACHING.

Somebody post the Chu-Isai video to prove the mean Kirby haters wrong

 

[Lovely]

Anything lower than 40/60 I can not see ever. If Meta Knight was such a hard match up, then why not Ice Climbers be 10/90 Ice Climbers since it's twice as hard to deal with Ice Climbers than Meta Knight. -_-;

 

[Kewkky]

Cactuar?

======

On an unrelated note, the trick to not geting hit by a shuttle loop oos is NOT APPROACHING.

Somebody post the Chu-Isai video to prove the mean Kirby haters wrong

Either not approaching, or mindgaming them that you're approaching and whiffing a bair so they think you're hitting their shield and they accidentally react, or mindgame a grab in there. There's only so much shielding can do, even for MK. Once he upBs, retaliate with either a quick uair, or a bair so it can clash with his glide attack.

And according to my experience, MK can NOT shut down a Kirby. And I'm not trying to sound biased because I like using Kirby and I want him to be higher in the tier list (as long as he's high, I'm content), I'm saying what I'm saying because I TRULY 100% believe that MK goes near even with Kirby (obviously he'll have a slight advantage), and i can't just sit down and hear people say it's a counterpick matchup, when I don't have as big of a problem against them as people make them out to seem like.

Oh, and... before anyone dare say "your MK experience is noob", "play against better MKs", "you must be a noob", or anything of the sort, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. I'm not some random person who wants to have all of his main's matchups as advantageous or near-even, I'm a person who doesn't want wrong information spread everywhere... Because i truly believe it's an even matchup.

 

[Allied]

Anything lower than 40/60 I can not see ever. If Meta Knight was such a hard match up, then why not Ice Climbers be 10/90 Ice Climbers since it's twice as hard to deal with Ice Climbers than Meta Knight. -_-;

i think ice climbers are easier than metaknight lol tbh

i think thats just personal matchup problems cuz i love fighting ice clibmers with kirby

and that matchup i would think is true because litterally metaknight can with enough experience shut a kirby DOWN for the count

 

[Allied]

Cactuar?

======

On an unrelated note, the trick to not geting hit by a shuttle loop oos is NOT APPROACHING.

Somebody post the Chu-Isai video to prove the mean Kirby haters wrong

i think you mean inui

and inui is known for having NO kirby experience
0_o

DC even said unless the metaknight doesnt have kirby experience its 65/35

 

[Lovely]

i think ice climbers are easier than metaknight lol tbh

i think thats just personal matchup problems cuz i love fighting ice clibmers with kirby

and that matchup i would think is true because litterally metaknight can with enough experience shut a kirby DOWN for the count

You got to be kidding me. Kirby's one of the easiest characters to chain grab with Ice Climbers, and stage pick matters at the most when playing them. Meta Knight only a problem if you never faced a good one. Anyways, it's definitely not lower than 60/40 Meta Knight, Lucario is more challenging than Meta Knight. :/

 

[Asdioh]

Hey, DC, as a note, just read SuSa's thread and stop using your experiences. They don't matter, no offense.

They don't not matter either. I agree that we're talking about matchups on paper here, but we shouldn't completely ignore experience.

All of the 3 last posts (before RK Joker) are close to horrible.

DC's post was well-thought out and argued well. He gave reasoning for believing everything he does.

And the truth is, he is at least mostly right.

One thing I'd like to note first, though: none of MK's grounded or aerial attacks clank with anything Kirby has, except for Tornado, Glide Attack, and maybe something else. I'm sure you've heard of his "transcendent priority" before. MK's sword will simply go through things, and hit the opponent, or trade hits if the opponent's attack is close enough to him.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but his Fair will generally beat our Bair, if we don't space it perfectly. Our hurtbox is closer to the end of our hitbox than his is. What we will usually see is Kirby and MK trading hits, or his sword slicing our foot (ouch) and hurting us.

And as for on the ground...I'm pretty sure his Ftilt can beat even our Fsmash if he spaces it perfectly. We can Fsmash him between Ftilts, but again his transcendent priority I think goes through our attack. Trading hits seems likely. This is hard for me to test >_>



Ok, onto the actual matchup discussion.

Ground game: MK has the clear advantage here. Ftilt and Dtilt beat pretty much everything we have. Our best option on the ground is to powershield his attacks and grab. His Up B from the ground beats everything ever. His Tornado loses to Fsmash, yes, but here are two problems: you can only Fsmash the Tornado if you predict it in time and you're at the perfect range, and he can Tornado so the bottom of his hitbox hits the top of your head, and then he's too high to be Fsmashed, but he can still hit you.

Air game: MK's advantage again. His aerials are all obviously faster than ours, and have better range. We will often be trading hits perhaps if we're attacking in the same direction at the same time. The only thing we have in the air that can beat Tornado from the side is our Hammer. Obviously it's a pretty slow attack, and again we will only be hitting him out of Tornado if we see it coming in time and have perfect spacing/he's stupid enough to run right into it. His Tornado can screw up any spacing we might be doing with our regular aerials. He can also combo us much easier than we can combo him (we basically can't combo him because he has combo breakers)

Offstage game: MK obviously wins. Dair Kirby offstage repeatedly and he dies. Easy. Shuttle Loop him if he's trying to recover above. Deadly, and difficult to avoid. Kirby can edgeguard MK, but....no he can't. If you edgeguard MK, he's doing it wrong.

Killing power: about even. Kirby's Fsmash and Hammer KO at very low percents, but they're going to be hard to land. MK can kill you offstage with Shuttle Loop at even lower percents, and that's a bit easier to land, if you're in the right (wrong) position. His Dsmash is also harder to avoid and harder to punish than our Fsmash, and it will kill at a slightly higher percent than our Fsmash, I think. His Fsmash has some startup time, but it's almost impossible to punish afterwards, and it's strong. Nair is a great killer too. It's easy to get stagespiked against MK.

Sexiness: Kirby clearly wins here.



Matchup rating: 60:40 MK at least. The simple truth is that if you are beating Meta Knight, he's doing it wrong. It's not unwinnable, but on paper which is mostly what we should be discussing, we simply don't have many options, while MK has multiple counters to EVERYTHING we can do.[/COLOR]

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ HA HA HA AH, aw man, at first I thougth anyone who said lower than 45/55 Meta Knight was just pulling my leg, but now it's all serious. Man oh man I don't not approve of that idea, I'll still clam 45/55 Meta Knight with more details later. And don't worry, I've faced Meta Knight's nearly all the time so I know all the facts. ☆

 

[Allied]

You got to be kidding me. Kirby's one of the easiest characters to chain grab with Ice Climbers, and stage pick matters at the most when playing them. Meta Knight only a problem if you never faced a good one. Anyways, it's definitely not lower than 60/40 Meta Knight, Lucario is more challenging than Meta Knight. :/

Oh just wait lovely ^_^ i got videos + discussion coming up in due time

and wow kewky really said that
jeez man be a little bit open minded
and whoever said experience doesn't matter lets see your regional tournaments or just regular tournament results against known metaknights >.>

experience is what its all about
Sure if i put "hey the matchup is 55:45" on paper doesnt mean its true at all
its clear metaknight dominates all aspects of gameplay when compared to kirby


thats like me not driving before and then driving to flordia from new york (dont worry my mom wrote down how to drive red means stop right?) >.>

and i right now can go from the range of

65/35 - 60/40 - 57:43

i'll have to decide between there but 55:45 is OUT
enough said that matchup is old and false

the only reason i strongly support DC is because hes fairly well known in FL and is really skilled and he prolly has the same metaknight hardships

He faces the best metaknights in FL
i face the best in NY/NJ 0_o...

i also agree with asdioh right now because hes a well experienced kirby with logical support to his claims

everyone else isn't really giving much